I will jump in and say that when we were discussing Spaik and her windows, you had caught while I was very busy in real the world and didn't have time to properly explain myself. I even stated in that thread that you were misunderstanding what I was trying to get at Moune. I stated, from what I had read was that her windows had not differed. No where in that thread did I mention that she was a thief. You just read a couple of my sentences that had the word theft in them, and assumed. Even after you posted the screenshots I even thanked you for proving me wrong, and providing evidence. Just for easy reference, here were those sentences you assumed by:



And even then, you just pointed them out. You didn't even comment on them. In no way do I see that as actually accusing her of theft, but I was going more or less by what I read elsewhere.

If you really want to re-hash an issue from almost 7 months ago be my guest. I'm telling you and here and now, you misunderstood me. Again, even with the whole Numenor thing, you still misunderstood me. I specifically stated I was talking about CEP and you just wanted to yell at me "No your wrong! SimPe says this!"

Honestly Moune, most of our interactions have been off base and just been misunderstandings. When I read those threads I see myself saying one thing, and you say another, on completely different topics. I would like to think that both of those issues were solved, since I basically stated that you were right about Spaik, and that if you wanted I would be willing to lay off Numenor. (Just for disclaimer, I don't remember telling him to fuck off. Just that he was an ass for what he said.)

It just seems to me like you feel like those discussions weren't brought to a close.


Yep. I will even admit the whole Spaik thing was squashed relatively quickly. I think mostly even by the links she provided for the Spaik incident, she just proved that to be true.

Yes, but isn't that the pot calling the kettle black here? One of the issues brought up here, is to not be so nit picky about other members. Yet, here you are, basically calling members wild consipracy theorists, whilst I am supposed to not comment on that fact? I applaud you realizing that you have been doing that all day, but to fix a problem, you can't just tell everyone else they are wrong, whilst you keep continuing the behaviors that you yourself are smacking down.


Actually you did state there was a lack of intelligence. You specificall stated:


Implying that members are either funny, or intelligent. Never the two.

No hard feelings though.  If I haven't been able to have a hard time sleeping I probably wouldn't have even noticed. I would actually like to know if this issue can come to a close? I think some members and lurkers have expressed their opinions, and I just get the feeling that the discussion is probably wearing on other people on the board.

Actually, I would wait to see if Pes and Ash give it a green light first. Mainly, because then either one of them could sticky the thread so it doesn't get buried. Secondly, ARR! might be hit first, because if your not registered, ARR! is the only sub section that shows up on the board.

I think that's a fantastic idear. Dstar, if your having trouble keeping up with your links due to RL, which we all understand, but perhaps you could enlist some help as well? Just to make sure it is kept fairly up to date.

I'm just a bit confused. Krumpet's post, I thought was a good insight and a differing opinion. His comment about it being a soap opera, I don't get why that would be taken offensively?


Those are some mighty big words to be throwing around. Lack of intelligence eh? Drama whore? Explain to me how that is helping? Aren't we discussing this issue because we want suggestions as how to improve the situation? How is saying many people here have poor judgment helping? Oh, because you just shrugged it off? This is thing I think your failing to understand, our mission statement:


May I even go out onto a limb and suggest, that we can infer that from out mission statement we are meant to be assholes with "poor judgment" just to piss off paysites?


Just out of curiousity, I went on looked on the BBS list of fan sites. I will admit, I was basking my ignorance, and just assuming. Here is the link. Just out of curiosity, I clicked on some links and checked some websites. A good portion of those sites, are free sites. The big problem, they either aren't active, or haven't been reached by PMBD's movement. So I will like to correct my earlier statement and say, that Free sites DO get advertisement. They just might not be the sites we want, or have reached yet.


Subsequently, my statement above, proved this to not be true.  There are tons of freesites listed on the BBS. The big problem I noticed, they did not correctly label paysites as being paysites. What's the point in differentiating between the two, if you only list one category?


Snarky, I would assume there isn't a full complete one because it would literally be to much to handle. Which is why I always assumed there wasn't an "official" listing of free sites on PMBD. I do think it would be a nice idea, but putting it all into one huge post, with no form of organization, can give major headaches to try and read through. Although, I do tend to try to direct people to Black Pearl Sims that has sites divided up by what content they carry, or based on how much a specific type of item was requested on which items carry that item. Also GOS has a pretty comprehensive list of what items they carry.

I won't lie, I haven't read the walls of texts. Mainly because, dstar, I read your reply this morning, and I have had a few things to say...

I do not agree that we need to allow underage children. Period. Why? Let's start with the fact that we would have to change, literally EVERYTHING about PMBD. It would no longer be PMBD. For instance, you suggested keeping them in their own separate part of the site. How do you suggest that? Let me tell you a story. Back when I was young, and Neopets was fantastical, I signed up. For those of you who don't know, when you go to register, they have age groups you select. If you selected 13 and under, you had no access to the forums unless you printed a permission slip, had your parents sign it, and mailed it to Neopets corporate head quaters, in California. What did I do when I discovered this? I made a new account, and lied about my birthday. When you go to Livejournal, and that window that pops up and warns you about adult content not suitable for people under the age of 18/21, do you read it or just click on through? There is literally no way Pes could keep 12's confined to their own area of the site.

Second of all, someone would have to go through the entire site, and edit/delete any posts not deemed suitable for minors. That would a whole shit load of history, erased. Not to mention, how terrible would it look that we complain how TSR is NOT Pg-13, and then we are bringing all the smut here? Bye bye Smuttiest thread! Oh by the way, bye bye ugliest creations thread as well since sometimes creations in there are borderline smut sometimes. Those two threads alone, I personally believe helped change a lot about how the community views paysites, and more specifically TSR.

And to be quiet honest, none of the booty staff really have the time, or probably even the desire to run around chastising everyone, and banning people. Yes, we don't have to much of an issue now, BUT it would become increasingly worse.

And I doubt allowing 12's would stop the "PMBD hate" secrets. There were people that had issues with how PMBD used to be, there are people who have issues with how it is now, and I'm sure people would have issues with how it's going to be. I agree, maybe we should refine ourselves to a degree, but should we change entirely? No. Does GOS change everytime a hate secret is made? No. Does no one see that at least once a week there is a secret about that one forum, is it N99? The one that does allow underage children, and how one of them was using homophobic slurs in their chat? Do we really was a bunch of ignorant children running around calling everyone fags because that's what daddy said? No.

To build upon what Mamakitty said, in a sense they are being protected by not being here. What do we do when the first time a proven 12 year old photobucket is hacked and replaced with sick porn? Of course we can say TSR did it, but that just gives TSR fuel to the fire of "those damn dirty pirates." It will just give them more of a reason to tell their younger audience to not participate over here. Not to mention, do we really want to deal with those situations?

Yes children have access to a multitude of things that many adults do not agree with. But it is not our job to provide a safe haven for children. Like I said before, nothing is stopping children from educating themselves, if not here, but at SimsCave, where it is more appropriate for minors.

And someone already touched upon this, but PMBD usually is not someone's first venture into the sims custom content community. Just look at our "How you found this place" thread. A good portion of those people either were seeking out free pay items, or found us through another website. Let's pretend we are beginners here, and say we just registered our game. So we go to EA's list of fansites, and what do we find? Mostly pay sites. People who venture into the community using the BBS, are already set up to go to paysites. Many of the more active members here, and even people who aren't members here, and yelled and hollered about it on the BBS. Unfortunately, efforts so far have not worked. But that's not to say we aren't trying to get at least Mod the Sims listed.


This irks me. We do support the free community. Maybe others don't see it as I do, but it is possible to disagree with someone's ethics/viewpoints, and still like their content or what they contribute to the community. Look at Inge for example. Not many here agree on her working with TSR, BUT if she was to make a totally kick ass program for us to use, we would thank her for it. It is possible to like someone, and not like their viewpoints.


This I agree with. BUT I think the direction you want us to move in, would be extremely detrimental to PMBD, our cause, our image, and our motive. I only see paysites using the chilluns against us and not with us.


This I think would fall under what DoW was saying about civility, in which case I agree.


Again, I agree. We usually are not the first stop in someone's content extravaganza, and the only reason I could for see people continually checking here is if they are active members, or just curious about us in the first place. There is a reason we don't have a huge section devoted to sharing our own content we made, or a "community finds" list. We don't want people to just drop in for the shinies, we want them to be educated about the EULA, and paysites dirty wrong doings.


This makes no sense to me. Just because you can modify a game to be an "M" rated game, does not make it unsuitable for children. Parents can choose to not allow their children on the internet to get CC. Just like we can choose to not be a PG-13 friendly environment. It doesn't matter if those 12's have access to penis hacks and rape hacks, the point of the conflict is whether or not those hacks should be readily available to them. Just like here, I don't see the argument as how friendly is PMBD to children, but more as do children belong at PMBD? Based upon your statement, I should allow my 5 year old niece to watch the Saw series, as long as I cover her eyes during the inappropriate parts. Which no, that's not right at all.


Yep. Another thing is, the statistics only show which countries those stats are coming from, and where those visitors actually visit. They do not show the age of the visitors. For all we know, all but 5% of those visitors could be adults.


Again, agreed. From what I know, a majority of the people that did work with TSR already had a negative viewpoint of PMBD from the get go. I am all for trying to change their opinion, but we have to be careful as well. If one person wants us to do A, and the next person wants us to do B, and the next person wants us to do C, then what do that leave us? More inconsistent that what the secret maker already suggests.


Agreed as well. Maybe it is time to change to the beat of a different drum.


Agreed. Like I suggested, an outside forum would probably be the best option. If Pes, or anyone else with hosting wouldn't mind helping out in that department, and if a couple people here wouldn't mind helping out, I would have no problem starting a website that just simply states facts. No bitch slapping or anything else involved. Just a place for people to express their viewpoints, and hopefully clear the air about misconceptions.


Exactly. I view the reasons for PMBD starting was to wake up the community as to what was happening. No other community I know of allows charging to outside content. The only one I can think of is Second Life, but that was built to be that way. If there was a PMBD back in the day, I doubt we would be in the situation we are in now. But things from the past cannot be changed, and I say don't regret the past, but use it as a learning tool.

Sorry for the TL;DR post, but I have been brewing on this for 8 hours. Needless to say, some situations you guys have already discussed and gone over with, but I had to get them out all the same.

And Snarky, for not sharing my beef soup, I shall create SMBD and show all those people how you share ingredients of other soups to other people, and steal soup from grocery stores!

You have a point. Thanks for reminding me that I have beef soup in my pantry, and that I must consume it immediately.

I think what your going for diet, is to be civil, yes? If that's the case, I agree to an extent. There's a big difference between disagreeing, and then calling someone a fuckwit and telling them to run back to their mommies with nothing else brought to the table. With that said though, the only reason I can see for trying to improve upon that front would be to give the appearance of a united front. A kind of "we stand together on this issue."

But on the other side of the coin, I think how people express themselves here is what makes PMBD so special. I may hate so and so, but I can come together with them on a united effort. No matter how Joe may hate Billy, they agree that they hate paysites even more. I do think that most people don't see it the way I do though.  The atmosphere here has calmed down from what was in the past. And I never thought I would say this, but if we "lighten" up anymore there is a good possibility that the entire cause/purpose of PMBD could be lost forever.

One of the anon's mentioned specifically easing up to make it easier to allow 13's12's. I am totally against that. I do not want some little kid in here whining about how hard school is, and how much of a bitch their parents are because they won't let them stay up past 12. I like the mature conversations, that can slum down into "childish" talk for the purpose of jokes. I like the fact that we don't have to label things not appropriate for minors. I like the fact that if there are 12's here, they can at least act responsible and mature enough to read their posts to make sure they don't sound stupid, and present themselves in a mature manner. There are plenty of other websites that oppose file sharing, with plenty of other members that oppose file sharing, that the 12's can go to.

The only downside I see to not allowing them here, is they miss out on a lot of first hand information. But nothing in stopping them from informing themselves. They can read all they want, just if your going to act like an idiot, then don't post.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I don't understand. I don't get why PMBD has to be the only forum dedicated to stopping paysites, and why we have to allow everyone and their mother here. Could someone not create their own version of PMBD, that has softer rules? A PMBD Jr. if you will. I doubt Pes will do it himself, but I don't see any reason as to why we/they couldn't mull over options for free hosting, to make a free board, for those that find PMBD to harsh.

Meh, if my post came across that way, it wasn't intended to. I meant my post to more along the lines of if you have issues, bring them here, not there.

To the anon, this will be the last I'm responding to you, because like I said, if you want to be taken seriously, then come here. Knowing who you are does not create any burden for me or you. It gives a face to "debate" with. Do we know your a long time member? Are you a long time member in good standing? Are you a long time member who is just butthurt? Do we know if your just a lurker? There have been tons of complaints from lurkers on other websites. But that's just it, they are lurkers. If they don't contribute to the forum/booty in some way how are supposed to take them seriously? If I open a business, and sell ice cream, how am I supposed to take advice from the guy selling pancakes? PMBD wasn't meant to be a fun filled community forum, or at least it wasn't in my eyes. It was meant to open the eyes of the community as to what they are paying for, and expose those dirty paysites of what they actually do behind the scenes with your money or your information. I read your replies, and how do I know that those multiple anon replies aren't just you? How do we know they are separate entities sharing a like mind? We don't. As far as I'm concerned, until I see any proof otherwise, I am just going to assume that it was mostly you. Actually, a good bit of them are from you because you just kept replying to yourself responding to comments made here.

Which to say the least, is kind of pathetic. You want to call Snarky selfish in his ways, yet you can't even do it under your own name? At least give him a name to make funny remarks back to. Just so the anon knows, no I'm not being buried in drama. This is my opinion. If I didn't agree with the general forum mentality of "meh" on the secret, I would say so. Unfortunately for you, it's easier for you to just dismiss me as drinking the kool-aid than it is to actually listen.

Until I see a complaint from a forum member, under a name, I just say meh. If we changed the forum for every last "anon" person who complained about PMBD, we would no longer be PMBD.

I don't know how anyone else feels about the secret. BUT I do know that my particular feelings are somewhat diappointed. If you, dear anon who replies to our comments on PMBD via Simsecrets comment box, are/were a long time member, why not mention your beef here? If you honestly feel there is something that needs improving, then guess what? Unless you come right out and name specifics, nothing will even be considered. You can't just tell someone something is wrong and to fix it, without even alluding to what the problem is. Yes, some might yell and scream, but that is to be expected. If you came to my house stomping mud in my kitchen, eating my oreo's, I would yell and scream as well. BUT by posting via SimSecret, your losing credibility because we can only refer to you as "anon." Not to mention your pleas for change falls on deaf ears.

I would like to invite this member to either PM myself, or any member of staff if they don't feel comfortable bringing these issues to light in the open under an identifiable name. Why? Because it's easier to negotiate with a name. Also because how do we know your not a butthurt member that got ripped a new one? How do we know that your honestly trying to improve the image?

Yes I have seen people on other sites rant about PMBD. My opinion, some of it could be valid. Opinions are just like assholes, everyone has one, and some are more stinky than others. So for someone to voice on another website about their dislike on PMBD doesn't mean that there aren't other who enjoy the phorum. Not to mention, with how hard the staff has to work, I feel the secret is a slap in the face. Even if you did clarify later on that you don't include all staff, to me the secret still includes everyone. So for those staffers who have fought the good fight, been there and done that, your pretty much saying that they are shitty now.

Finally, times change. Atmospheres of forums change constantly. New members join, old members leave. It's a never ending cycle. To pretty much say that the members now suck, and them prime was late 07/early 08 is very insulting to new members who have contributed a lot over the past couple of months. Or even the older members who have recently become more active.

Again, I know I am more than all ears for someone else's opinion. But I won't negotiate with an anon on mystery problems whom insults other members of the forum.

Agreed. I would maybe only go as far as D-DD, mainly because I could see it now... a sim spawned at the farthest left on the skinny scale that the game allows, and then some, with EE breasts. I know some people actually do look like that, but it just seems like it would be... painful I guess the word would be. My ideal sliders though are for height, waist, hips, leg thickness, and maybe even arm length. I have been dying ever since sims 1 to have sims of differing heights without cheats and weird wonkiness.

In other news... ever seen lemoncandy's awesome plants!?!? I <3 me some lemoncandy. And don't forget Aikea's new default replacement eyes. Even comes packaged with new replacement teeth! Only downside is that the teeth won't work if your current default skintones have the teeth replaced anyways.

*Whew* Emergency diverted then.  I truly do want the breast sliders. BUT I am absolutely petrified that I am going to see townies spawn with breast the size of Trogdor himself. I think I read that he made it so that townies don't spawn with them, but I am still very cautious. Not to mention I don't want a spawn of my puddings to pop out fully developed with ZZZ sized breast at 14 either. I will probably hold off until it's fully working and released to see if theres a way to limit the sizes.

But then where will the lol's come from? 

I can't help but wonder, how many people thought the same thing back in the sims 1 days when all those websites started turning pay? Like I pointed out, there is no clause ANYWHERE that I've seen to stop TSR from taking this step. Yes I care about what they have done for the community, but as a creator am I going to have to take a third job just to fund my hobby?


Cat, unfortunately I will have to agree with Inge on this one. In these types of instances you have to pick and choose your battles. My personal viewpoint is that if Inge, or any other creator involved with this, would have taken their negative viewpoints to TSR, the only thing I believe it would have accomplished would be to shed negative light to a very small target audience. TSR allows links to MTS, and I'm sure on MTS you can find information about PMBD... that's how I found this place. YET there are still people suckling from the proverbial tit. Unfortunately, voicing their opinions in chat also reaches a very small audience.

I think Ken has made very good points though. And explained some of my points better than I ever could have. Some people in the community, politics aside, just don't want to be able to choose from only one option. How would you feel if you walked into McDonalds, and one day you have 3 different kinds of whoppers to choose from, and the next day you just have the one? Of course you can't do anything at this point because McDonalds is in almost everyone's home. My point, is that even with open source tools, once it gets to that point it will become a very difficult road to travel back on.

Fair enough. I can understand the want to protect your source.


Again, fair enough.  I don't really follow Peter's life details that closely, so the "not interested in sims" had escaped me. Thank you for pointing that out. But like I said, I would completely understand if Peter decided he really didn't want to update his tools anymore due to lack of interest.


Oh I figured that must have been it. Hence my reply to ShanOw.


I figured it was because of lack of interest in taking up the responsibilty of not only coding these programs, but keeping them up to date, and making sure they are functional. I never thought that the open source didn't work, I was more or less curious as to if the code had been taken and reproduced in other instances. Since you just clarified that it has, then it just shows that my curiousness was rewarded.