I hope that shouty girl is a semi-elaborate joke. Because otherwise that's just sad.

Well that depends entirely on why they left. They weren't exactly happy sunshine fuzzy wuzzy bunnies themselves, however martyred they're choosing to pretend to be now. I typed out some other stuff, but then realized that THEY are not here, and having an argument with YOU about why THEY left is utterly ludicrous, as well as being pretty damned "uncivil".

They chose to leave and not say why, though it seems they talked to you about it. To anyone who does that because they got pissy, I say don't let the door hit you on the way out. What, we're supposed to suck up to people who used to be at TSR now? Puh-lease!

You want to be at a different site, be at a different site. The evidence is there, and anyone who chooses not to believe it because they don't like the way some posters comport themselves -- i.e., far better than on most Sims sites --  is probably hopeless.

Could you point to some of those? I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, I honestly can't remember any cases where there wasn't good evidence and the speculation wasn't quashed relatively quickly. The only times I can remember are when people were at least half-joking, or where they were obviously indulging in rampant speculation and not trying to convince anyone of anything.

The phorum is not policed, except by its members. And, speaking for myself, it's not niceness that I can't stand: it's dishonesty. I'm not kidding when I say that, in my years playing Sims 2, almost every other forum in the Sims community that I've visited has a community based on passive-aggressiveness, lies and asskissing. That is what I personally am horrified of. People who have been here for a long time know that we can share our opinions and even argue with each other frankly and honestly without one of us then proceeding to decide that the arguer is the spawn of Satan who should be cast into the outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. We might be pissed off at what someone says but we'll try to give them the benefit of the doubt and not think they're completely and totally evil because of one post because, ya know, this is a website and you can't hear other people's tones of voice. Also because human beings in the real world are allowed to disagree. This is very nearly the only site in the entire Sims community where that's the case.

In other words, in my considered opinion as a gamer who frequents lots of game forums, and as an internet user who visits lots of forums not connected to gaming, PMBD is actually the nicest, kindest, most civil site in the entire Sims community. The ways in which people seem to want us to change, to make us more like the rest of the community, would, I truly believe, make us actually meaner.

I looked at the last few pages of that thread and I have no idea what you're referring to. If you have something specific to say, say it.

Regarding the SimSecret person: last I knew, flinging anonymous mud at people was rather UNcivil, and is, in fact, one of the nastiest, weaseliest things anyone can do. Either s/he is yet another troll, a TSR person, or got his/her panties in a twist because s/he couldn't be as obnoxious as s/he wanted here, so ran somewhere s/he would not be punished for obnoxiousness.

Unlike misselektra, I've never seen another community with anything like SimSecret. I don't see how something like that could possibly fail to be a negative influence on any community.

Since when does Lady Gaga wear pants? Pretty much the only thing I know about her is that she runs around pantsless.

When I saw that chair I wanted to cry. It's so ugly that it violates the laws of causality. It's like unholy water.

Times, places, names and quotes please. Formless accusations are just that.

And frankly, if people can't handle being disagreed with about anything at all -- which I've seen plenty of times on this forum and others -- and therefore go off in a huff, my response is going to be to shrug my shoulders and not care. Life is far too short to spend coddling people who can't find their big girl panties. It's also too short for people who think that a few people who are "mean" to them are worse than criminals, and therefore go and side with the criminals.

I've read the study to which Pescado's referring. It has definite merit, but iirc it was one of those "throw undergraduate psychology students in a room and see what happens when X" studies, which while they are interesting starting points for more in-depth studies, need to be taken with a grain of salt.

By the way: the phorum used to be significantly "meaner". It lost a lot of members when people started whining about the "mean" people. Sunshine and huggles is not what the site is about, and if you want that, you're in the wrong place. It's an advocacy site which advocates destroying something we find utterly reprehensible. It's not going to be "nice"!

What is that pink stuff floating around the ugly earring chick? It looks like there's a Klingon battle going on over her head.

I don't know why anyone ever pays any attention to anything at SimSecret, frankly. I mean seriously, is the phorum going to start rending its garments AGAIN because some cowardly brat whined about us? Obvious shitstirrer is obvious.

Yes, I would love if townies could be limited to a range from A to about EEish. I'd be fine with my own sliders being limited to that as well.

I hope shoulder sliders come out soon too.

Is it just my imagination, or has TSR gotten even worse? They're firmly in Carla Niven territory now.

Why am I not surprised that breasts are the first to get sliders  . But it's still a good sign -- can you slide men's chests as well? How small can you make the breasts? Hopefully soon we'll see hip and waist sliders at the least.

Yes, and I don't know if anyone knows what happened to him. All I've read about him says that, basically, we don't know.


That had gone out of style by then, I think, at least in northern Europe and other places where centralized government had recently taken a strong hold. Royal families were still exchanging kids through marriages of alliance, though.

And yeah, many of the issues between Native Americans and the English were based on Indians acting like they would toward another tribe, and expecting to be respected and treated with fairness and honesty in return. The English would then say, wow, thanks for all this food and showing us how to live here and stuff, bye now, and the Indians would go hey what? What's with not giving us anything in return? You people are not just smelly, loud and ugly (though Indians would never say that to English people's faces, they were far too polite, though they did try to teach Europeans how to wash and "accidentally" dunked them in water a lot), you are also uncivilized boors.

Then Pocahontas became an ambassador, with the goodwill or her father, who encouraged her marriage to Rolfe as a diplomatic alliance. The holding of a chief's children to further good relationships between the tribes was a common practice among American Indians, who expected reciprocity from Europeans.

I recommend <i>Facing East from Indian Country: A Native History of Early America</i> by Daniel Richter for a good account of what Pocahontas' life might have been like, and generally for its accounts of early Native American contact with Europeans (mostly English). We're reading it in the class I'm taking right now on early Native American-European relations and it's quite good.

And that couch looks like Starburst.

Not actually. American Indians in what is now the U.S. weren't in danger of being killed if they refused to convert, nor were they safe from being killed if they did convert. The English just wanted their land, unlike in Canada where the French wanted their trade, or in South America and Mexico where the Spanish wanted their labor and their souls, and where they would be in danger of being killed if they didn't convert. In those days, Europeans didn't have much of a foothold in North America though. Something to note: there are more people of Native American descent living in Canada now than there were when Europeans got here and there are probably more people of Native American descent living in South America and Mexico than when Europeans got here. The U.S. is the only nation in the continental Americas that nearly destroyed its native population.

Pocahontas most likely married John Rolfe as a diplomatic alliance between the English and her people (though Rolfe seems to have really loved her), and she would be expected to adapt to many of her new peoples' ways then, which included Christianity. That doesn't mean she saw Christianity the way the English ministers would have wanted her to. By the way, she already had a husband when she married Rolfe.

Also, I never saw the Disney movie, but did they put her and Rolfe/Smith, (*gag*) with THE PILGRIMS?! Oh dear god. Just -- who wrote this, I want them dead. It's bad enough that they believed Smith's lies about her in the first place. She was eleven when they met, she did not love him, and it's quite likely that her father's execution-just kidding with Smith was done to show the chief's power to take life and to generously give it.

I don't care much about Disney messing up fairy tales. They're just fantasy stories, they've changed dozens of times over the years, Disney may as well make their own version of them, crappy as they may be. But when they start fucking with real peoples' lives, telling people complete and total lies about history, then I get furious. They deserve to get smallpox or typhoid or cholera or tuberculosis -- or all of them.

Yes, very interesting. As interesting as the fact that those "free" people chose to work with them.

I just donated money to the grocery store. Though they're so busy, if I get sick from something they sold me, or if I learn they spread the private information of other customers around to their entire staff, I surely will forgive them!