I'm not saying people don't have the right to be pissed.  I'm pissed too.  My name is on the list and I'm totally against it. And if someone can tell me what legal action I can take to stop this, I'll do it.  However, I've also seen how effective we've been in the past when we've gone the route of the foaming lunatics.  We screamed and yelled about the leaking of information.  Thomas calmly posted how we were wrong and the information was lies.  Some folks joined our side.  Many stayed on TSR.  And some folks even went to TSR and said, "I can't believe how crazy those pirates are, thank god you folks are sane!" 


And I'm not questioning that this is a bad thing.  It is.  Even if nothing can happen as a results of this, you still have someone giving out information and lying. However, until I know what is happening with that information, I cannot take any action to stop it or have Atwa punished for it. So, what is the point now of yelling and screaming?  Will it take away the information?  Nope, it's still out there. 

How other people want to react is their own choice.  And I'm not going to be condemned, or patronized just because I choose not to fall into a panic over it.  It's a two way street, if everyone else has the right to run around screaming like a chicken with their heads cut off, (which they do) I have a right to take the, "Okay, let's see what they're going to do next." 

Coconut probably saved the day by posting this stuff.   Which is awesome, and I am totally grateful to him/her for that.  With the information being public, if TSR/Atwa did have huge plans, this rather throws a giant cog into them, doesn't it?

Missangelica, I'm not going to argue with you, it's becoming childish and stupid on both our parts. However, I was never in an abusive relationship with TSR.  I never had anything against TSR until I was well away from them and THEN found out they shared paypal information.  They never treated me poorly, to be honest.  Even when they did take away my status, it was at a time when I wasn't creating and the whole thing didn't strike me as mean, it struck me then how much of a business TSR was.  They didn't care about you, personally, they only cared about you as a producer of product for them.   I was fine with that. 

I think that people have taken my opinion of how I'm handling this and thought I was telling everyone, "It's no big deal."  No, that's not true. It IS a big deal.  It's sleazy, awful, and immoral. And of course people on the list have every right to be pissed off.    If there was something I could do to stop it, I would.  My whole entire point is that I'm not going to panic about it haunting me until it does.  The information leaking is rotten.  HOWEVER, the unintentional silver lining is that if it is the information from the petition, then we have more evidence that Thomas is not only capable of such activities, he regularly does them.  Any doubts I had about the whole Buggyboots thing is gone.  It was Thomas that hacked her. 

Again, if someone can tell me any steps I can take to punish Atwa for this, tell me and I'll do them as long as they're legal.  Until then, there is nothing I can really do until/unless she or someone who has the list strikes first.  I don't see the point in going into a fit of rage that blinds me from reason right now, because all it will do is keep me from sleeping and give me an ulcer. 

One last time, because I can't stress this enough, I am in no way, shape or form saying this was acceptable.  This was a horrible, mean, underhanded thing to do and I'm of the opinion that there is something deeper going on here, OR, Atwa hacked this herself (she's been known to do some hacking herself) and now she's passing it out because she's delusional.  Either way, everyone on that list has the right to be furious that it leaked.  Everyone should be grateful to Coconut for letting us know it leaked, so we can be prepared.  But I cannot afford to waste my energy in a panic. 

If you, or anyone, has advice on how to protect anyone on that list from any problems that might arise?  You should share it.  Even if you do it by PM.  I've already spoken to my IP about it, and their opinion is that they will not release any information on me without a court order, to anyone.  Other than that, I don't know what I can do, because I don't really know what they can do with that information.  To be honest, it's information that is already out there in the world. 

First off, cut the patronizing bullshit.  I'm not stupid nor am I innocent, not by a long shot.  Yes, they could destroy my computer with viruses. As to what good that would accomplish, please tell me.  I'd get another computer.  Even if we were flat broke, I'd have one within a month.  Might be a Salvation Armani special, but I'd be on the net.  But, if they wanted to infect my computer, TSR could have done that years ago, without ever needing to know my first name and address.  All they'd need to know is my email and they could send it to me.  Or, my IP address, which they had every single time I logged onto their site. 

So, what else could they do to me?  You say, "They go further into depravity and lawlessness."  That's vague bullshit.  Specifically, since you are soooo devious and sooo knowing,  what can they do to me, within reason, now that they have my real name and email?  Are they going to take a trip to where I live and beat me up?  I. Don't. Think. So.  Could they get my phone number and call me in the middle of the night?  Yes.  Could I then get them for harassment, because the call could easily be traced?  Yes.  And even if the call can't be traced, a phone call is merely annoying. 

You shadily hint that they could do terrible things that would destroy my life.  What are these things?  Spell them out for me, stop the veiled hints.  Yes, they can call my ISP and say, "This person is a known pirater of software."  The only thing is that my ISP is going to look at my record and say, "Well, ironically, she isn't a big downloader."  I'm not on any torrent sites.  My ISP isn't going to start action on me, based on someone calling and claiming they have information on me, my ISP would need proof.  Atwa and her posse can claim I'm a pirate until I'm blue in the face, but I'm not.  I haven't shared their precious pay files.  I don't even download software or music off of torrents (Or, at least I haven't in about five years...)  If Atwa wants to accuse, let her accuse, the burden of proof is on her shoulders. This isn't like she has a screen shot of me doing anything wrong, because I haven't done what she's accusing me of. 

Could she find out where I work and call and tell my boss I'm an evil pirate?  Probably, if she wants.  Good luck to her, the first thing she'd have to do is explain what pirating is.  No, correct that, the first thing she'd have to do is explain to my boss that computers can be used outside of work!  But, even if my boss was the most computer savvy guy in the world, he's not going to take the world of some unknown person calling him and claiming stuff.  No boss would. And yes, having been once married to a complete and utter lunatic, I know for fact that someone calling and talking smack about someone to their boss is not legal grounds to fire them.  My ex husband tried that route and a simple phonecall to the cops took care of that problem.  Yes, I know, people get fired over stuff on the net all the time, but that's usually something like they posted a picture of themselves on a beach when they're supposed to be home sick.  Or they wrote a long missive about how much the company they work for, sucks on their MySpace page. 

All we have now is that this list is out. My name (and 600 other folks) name is on this list. We have Coconut saying that Atwa is saying it's a list of pirates.  While I do beileve Coconut, I can't even prove that Atwa is actually passing out the list or saying that.  No one has stepped forward but Coconut to claim this information.  If I contacted a lawyer right now and said, "What can I do?" he'd look at the evidence and think I was crazy.  We don't even have a copy of the document being passed around to look at, we just have an edited version of this document.   So far, nothing has been done.

If something happens, like if my ISP should suddenly say, "We can no longer give you service because you're a pirate," then I have something.  In the meantime, all I have is heresay.   

Any time!

We have been pretty quiet around here and he's been known to say that this site is "dead"  *shrug*  It wasn't really dead, but some folks had drifted and there wasn't much news lately.


First... I'm not saying I'm not upset.  I was royally PISSED OFF when I saw it, but, later, when I thought about it, I realized that there is no information that they have that is truly confidential.  ANY of the information they have on me (My real name, my email, etc.) is something that anyone can obtain with a computer and the ability to know what Google is.  And honestly, I keep hearing, "OMG, they can DO things with that information!"  What I don't hear is what can be done.  I can pick up my local phone book and get people's names, addresses and phone numbers.  That doesn't mean I can do anything with that information.  

If someone can tell me what I should do about this, provided it doesn't violate local laws or my own moral code, I will be happy to do it.  Unfortunately, every time something like this happens, all I ever hear is, "We need to DO something!  We need to take legal action!"  If that's the case, then should I sue the phone company?  They publish more information than that in a publication that anyone can get their hands on.  What no one ever seems to be able to say is what to do about it.

Atwa's handing out of the list? That was malicious.  What people do with it is their own motives.  Personally, I don't see that they CAN do much with the information.  They can report me to my ISP, but what proof do they have that I've done anything wrong?  Okay, maybe they could have my LJ account canceled.  Yes, that would suck, but it won't ruin my life. They can call my house, as I mentioned, but anyone who cranks someone these days is crazy, you can find out who it is a whole lot easier.  

They have my name and email.  If the information comes from EA they also will have any information I gave to EA when I was registering my software, which includes my phone number.  So, pray tell, what do they do with it now?

You tell me what legal action I can take, I'll take it, if I'm able to.  Otherwise, I don't see the point of running around in a panic.  The information is out.  Whether or not I get upset about it, that won't take it back.  And if I run around ranting, screaming, and acting like a lunatic buffalo in heat with a burr up her ass, I'm just another person Thomas can point at and say, "See?  The pirates are LUNATICS! We're on the right side, we're nice!"

I don't even think it's from EA.  The more it's mentioned, the more I think it's BlueSoup's hacked petition.  And if that is the case, then well, I'm the idiot who posted that information, I should have known better. But again, please tell me what these people can do with my email address and real name?  


Edit to add: Something also occured to me... wouldn't the first person to sign the petition be Blue?  And wouldn't that help to identify where the information came from?  Ironically, the first name on that list is missing.

Edit 2: changed "public" to "publish"  

Well hai there, I'm on the list too!

When Paleo told me she wasn't, I thought it might have something to do with that day several of us got banned by the BBS for writing negative things about TSR.  She had written a post and did not get banned.  I got banned for agreeing with other posts, not writing one myself.  BUT, after reading this, I'm wondering.

However, after being pissed, I've come to the conclusion that while the information out is annoying, it really isn't powerful enough to do anything.  So, some folks now know the person behind Darqstar's real name. Big deal.  I've never shared payfiles.  My real name isn't such a secret that anyone with a computer, a minimum of computer savvy (like knowing how to Google) and an hour or so couldn't have found out for themselves.  The worst things that they can do with that information is:

1: Find out where I live and come over or give harassing phone calls. Gee, if I get any visits or phone calls like that, I'll know the source.

2: Sell my email to spammers.  Too late, it already is out there to spammers.  That's why I have email filters.

3: Put me on a blacklist so I can no longer pay for Sim items.  Breaks my heart, that one does.  *snort*  And even then, I could still pay any place that took credit cards, because when you use a credit card on the net, it won't give your real name to the person you're buying from, the person who gets the real name is the company the processes the card.  I can't pay with paypal.  I don't pay anyone with paypal anyway, so again, who cares.  If I was really interested in buying stupid Sim pay crap, I could always buy a gift card credit card and use that, then no one would know who I was. But yaknow, does it matter?  If I want pay items, if I even start to care about Sims again, I can come here.

Unless I'm missing something, all this information does is stir up a huge hornets nest, but in truth, is rather useless.  So, why was it leaked?

The only conclusion I can come to is that everything has been quiet on the whole PMBD front, and Thomas wants to stir it up again.  Why? Because any publicity can be good publicity if you spin it right.  Yes, we yell, we scream and we get others on our side. But, how many members do they get that feel sorry for them?  "Oh, Thomas, those mean people saying all those nasty things about you.  I wasn't going to renew my subscription this year, but considering the grief TSR is getting, I decided I needed to show my support!"

I mean, you can't say that the leak was an accident.  The list might have been given to Thomas in secret, but the fact that he shared it with Atwa, and obviously shared it in such a way that coconut could and did find out, tells me he wanted it leaked.  I mean, they've known they're being watched for over a year, if Thomas really wanted the information kept private, he would not have given it to Atwa.  He did, he wants us to know he has it, that it's out there and he wants to piss off the community, he wants to start the "Us against them" mentality.  Because hey, even sympathy money is better than no money at all.  And if you've ever hung on the forums at TSR, you'll find it's full of well meaning, but misguided people who think of TSR as a friend and when someone attacks their friend they want to help... and the best way to help to them is to pull out the wallet and hand them the cash.

The above is my opinion of the whole situation.  You don't have to agree or disagree with me, the choice is yours.

Neither does putting a refrigerator in front of a window like that.  "HAI NEIGHBORS! Lookie the back of my fridge!"

Okay, I know I haven't been active in the Sims community in awhile, and if that negates my opinion to you, then feel free to skip this.

However, after reading the secret, reading this discussion, so on and so forth, I am scratching my head about one thing; since when does liking or disliking pirates, this board, or anyone/thing and PMBD mean you have to be pro paysite?  The secret seemed to imply that because we weren't warm, fuzzy, and overflowing with milk and honey for everyone and everything having to do with The Sims and the Community, that somehow, the alternative was to go, "Oh fuck it, paysites ROCK!"

Right is right and wrong is wrong and if you can be swayed to change your beliefs just because others sharing your beliefs don't act exactly as you wish them to, then your moral ground is shaky anyway, and you're probably not going to be much good to either side. If all it took was us being brutally honest and at times downright bitchy, to make all these people decide that paysites were now okay, then to be honest? They were never really sure one way or the other.  If Delphy wants to work with Thomas, that's his right, but if he's willing to change his opinion, based only on how we behave?  Then clearly, he never had much conviction about the whole pay vs. free thing to begin with. 

As for the secret itself?  If you believe in something, you stand up for it.  People who make a difference don't hide.  People who aren't sure about their convictions are the ones to hide.  That, and people who are too afraid of the consequences.  If you're too afraid of the consequences, then maybe you should just STFU.  I can't speak for anyone else, but the moment I see something said as a secret, I can't take it seriously.  If this person really cared about what they were saying, they wouldn't be afraid to put their handle/name behind it.  And they would have brought it HERE first.  That would have been the decent thing to do.  Bringing it to Sim secrets only tells me that they want to start drama, but don't want to risk that they'll get called on it or that they'll have to really defend what they wrote.

Yes, but you merely brought up Paleo and my name as speculation.  Neraina is the one who then went on to heavily imply that she really did know why we left, even if we weren't admitting it.  And that pissed me off, big time.  I don't owe her any explanation as to why I haven't been on this site, I've been absent from the entire Sim community, so it's not like I was over on another site instead of this one.  You were fine.  Her implications that I or Paleoanth were somehow playing some dumb game irritated me.  I don't speculate as to why people leave a site, people are always coming and going on the internet, it's the nature of the beast. 

Interesting... you first claim you have no knowledge of why I or Paleo left, which is truthful.  You have no idea why neither of us have been posting.  But, then you go on to imply that no, you really do know, and the reason is because we're being martyred, or we think we are.  I find that amusing. Who or what on this site possibly has the power to make me feel martyred?  Sorry to destroy any egos that might be lurking, but there is no one on this site that has that much power over me. 

When Paleoanth called me to let me know that our names were brought up here, and that it was implied that we weren't around because of some reason, most likely involving extreme butthurt, I had to think about it.  Then, I remembered there was a bit of pissy little wanking off going on around here, but then I also remembered that it happened, it was aired out, bitched out, and I then thought, forgotten completely by everyone. Clearly not. 



Neriana, when it comes to me, or anything about me, do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up.  Don't try to second guess me, don't try to figure me out, because to be honest?  It's fucking creepy.  I haven't talked to anyone but Paleoanth from this site since I last posted.  And, not that it's any of your business, but the only reason why I talked to Paleo, is because our friendship doesn't just exist because of PMBD.  Clearly, you have some big old hateon issue about me and Paleoanth, I don't know why, nor do I care.  If you want to say you hate my guts, want to tell me to fuck off, die in a fire, whatever, I don't care, but don't dare to presume you know anything about me.  You don't. 


Again, stop trying to imply you have some super secret knowledge of why I'm no longer active on this site. 


What other site am I on, pray tell?  I haven't been on any other Sim sites recently. 

And, not that I owe you any explanation at all, but since you've decided to make accusations as to why I'm no longer active here, I feel I'm now obligated to confess to the truth, least you continue to spread around these half baked theories of yours.

I've been busy. 

No, I'm not going to go into some snide little, "I have a life now, so I'm too good for silly little internet games,"  lecture.  It's all pretty simple, I've just been busy with things that are no more important than Sims 2 or 3, except to me.  I've been doing a bunch of things around our apartment that should have been done ages ago.  I've been working, and I've also been suckered into joining facebook and playing silly little word games over there.  Sims 2 or 3 just doesn't hold much interest over me.  Anyone who I thought would even give a damn if I was here or not, knew of other ways to get in touch with me, if they wanted to know how I was doing, so I never felt that I owed anyone an explanation.  There hasn't been anything going on in the Sims community that I felt any desire to become a part of, nor was there anything going on here that I felt my imput was necessary to.  I didn't stomp out of here in a hissy fit, I drifted away as people do.  And to be brutally honest?  I don't understand why my name came up in the first place, and even morso, why it inspired such vitriol from Neriana.

Message me if you want the info.  Since I've badmouthed the place before, I don't want to mention it.  But the place my husband works is in Mass and I work in RI, very close to the mass boarder.

Do you live in New England or along the East Coast?

*Shrugs* Say what you want, but our company IS hiring.  We had two people quit this week.  Wanna know how many applicants were waiting?  Zip, zero, nada.   None came in to apply, none applied on the website. 

Our business has increased.  Last summer, we'd be well done with the order packing by 1:00 p.m. at the latest.  Now we're lucky if we're done by 3:00.  This Monday I worked until 5:30.  Monday before, I worked until 4:00.  I think the earliest I've been out of there on a Monday is 3:30 this summer. 

My husband works for the same company, different location, different job.   The store manager told them that if they knew anyone who wanted a job, they could just bring them in to start work that night, all they would need is a ss or work visa.  No jumping through hoops, no drug tests like before.  Instead, you agree that if they want you to take a drug test, you'll go willingly.  And, as of yet, no one has come in and started working.  In their HD department, the crew boss has been working with a broken arm and a broken hand because they're that desperate, that it's worth it to pay him his wage for doing almost no work, because he just can't do it.  And it's not even a case of, "Well, they want to avoid paying workman's comp" because the accident happened off work.  They wouldn't have to pay him anything to sit at home and heal.

They also upped the pay to start from minimum wage to ten bucks and hour.  Plus, you get extra money for working 3rd shift.  Again, it's a tough job and few people like it, but again, it does provide health insurance.  And, the hours are flexible enough so if you just needed a job to keep you going/allow you to stretch out your unemployment benefits until you are working again, it isn't such a bad choice. 

Again, I understand that if you're a professional, used to making an income above 80K a year, you're not going to want to do a job like that, however, I also remember when the economy tanked in the early '80s, I was waitressing and we had people who were college educated, who had worked in various professional jobs, coming and and applying to be waitresses, hostesses, and dishwashers. 

Jobs that say they are hiring, but don't are out there.  But, at least where I'm working, we could use more people.  Husband and I are taking some time off next week for various reasons.  Previous two summers, my boss was cheering when I said I was going away, because it saved on payroll.  This year, I was asked several times if I really was sure I wanted to take vacation, especially on Monday, that I could work on Monday and then have the rest of the week off, blah blah blah.  Joking, I said, "Gimmie 250 dollars, cash money and allow me to leave at 4:00, no matter what and I'll do it."  My boss said, "If I had that much in petty cash I'd do it." 

So, the economy is sending some pretty mixed up signals as far as I'm concerned.  If things are really as horrible as everyone is saying, why aren't we swimming in applicants?  Why does the manager at my husband's branch been begging people to get their friends in to work? 

Oh, I know.  I was taken in by all the promises of, "Now you truly can create a Sim to be anyone you want."  Nope.  All fat sims look the same, all thin sims look the same.  But, at least it's more variety than Sims 2.  Then you had the choice of "Body builder" or "Body builder with beer belly."  

I heard somewhere that EA didn't want to make it so that breasts could be worked with separately, because then the game would have gone beyond Teen.  I can't though, for the life of me, see how having the option to make a woman's breasts bigger will make the game any more mature than it already is.  But, we are talking the company that said that having women breast feed would push the ratings up too high.  Apparently "woohoo" (sex) is all right, but using breasts as they were intended will just shock and horrify!

THIS.  Honestly, thanks to bewb jobs becoming more and more the norm, what used to be average to mildly blessed has become "OMG, YOU HAVE NO TITS!"  I'm a C. In High school I was considered a little better than average.  It's ridiculous.

It's also making it so guys think it's their god given right to have a girlfriend with a 21" waist and DD knockers.  I know, such women exist, my mother, in her heyday had a 28" waist and a set of double DD's, but that didn't last very long, and she had to half starve herself dieting to keep the waist there and wear some almost corset like garments to make sure the bust stayed while only the waistline got smaller. I'm sure to some girls it comes natural, but most of the time growing up, if you saw a woman with DD's, or DDD's, she often was at least a bit curvy on the bottom half too.   

Now women are expected to have 21" waistlines, nice rounded "baby got back" butts, and ginormous breasts. 

I think my "favorite" (and by favorite, I mean "Something so horrible it makes me want to puke") new trend are women who get plastic surgery on their vagina because they don't feel it's pretty enough.  Yes, if you're horribly disfigured, then it makes sense but to be, "Well, my lower lips just don't look like they did when I was seven, let's get that snipped" is absolutely crazy.  "I've seen articles with women going, "Oh, I was so embarrassed after the kids, to let my husband see..." Honestly, if my husband ever even suggested I needed plastic surgery for my vagina, he'd never see it again.  "Sorry, don't want to horrify you, so I'll just keep this out of your way." 

For Sims, I think you should be able to make your Sim any way you want, so if you want to make a Sim look like she's carrying two watermellons under her shirt while taking in a HUGE DEEP BREATH at all times, then you should be able to make it.  But on the boards, I snigger at all the women who say, "I want to be able to make ME and I have huge breasts and a tiny waistline and it's allllll natural!  The world's largest convention of women who all are gifted to have perfect bodies and they all play Sims 3.  I strongly suspect there is a lot of, "Well, that's what I WISH I looked like" going on, vs. "This is really how I look." 


True.  By the end of the winter, my brother looks like the skinny sim with little to no muscles.  By the end of summer, he's still skinny, but has some muscle tone. The advantages of doing yard/outside construction work. 

Wait a moment, those aren't supposed to be recolors of the powersuits, are they?