PMBD

In looking at some of the posts on here listing this reason and that reason... it's funny how you can lie to yourself, eh?  The bottom line is, the people downloading these files are stealing.  And if they're okay with that, fine.  But please, don't hide behind "Paysites are crap" and whatever other dozen excuses you can come with - you're still stealing.  If you don't agree with paysites, fine - don't subscribe to them.  That's the honest thing to do.  Anything else is just making excuses for thievery.

you people have said this in the past...... its funny how stupid people can be eh? i love that people think that we are going to change our OPINION'S (which the last i checked weren't illegal) just because they say we should because thats the way they feel.... funny eh?

I would make a joke about this person being Lizard or VULTURE, but the post is at least coherent this time.

Pirates steal. They are not the Smurfs, they are the Pirates. All else on this forum is funny crap and ridiculous but juicy slander and gossip. Enjoy your stay.

Also, not everyone who posts here and discusses things, agree with uploading things against someone's will. I would suggest you read through this forum and join the debate!

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions on what we're doing.

Filesharing *not stealing* has been around since there were first paysites, TS1 days.  It's just been a lot quieter and less "in your face."

Paysites and donation sets have become so prolific and everyone and their dog is doing them simply because the community at large has accepted them UNTIL NOW.

Well, I think the community *or at least a large part of it* has finally had enough and we're done letting "creators" take advantage of it.  Paysites were never supposed to happen, and if any of us can help it, they will die down.

I have no problem with sites requesting donations, and I will donate when I think a site warrants it.  But I won't stand still for stuff being held hostage, and if I buy something from a paysite/donation site, I will definitely share it with everyone I know (and even people I don't).

Avic, your kind of logic irritates me greatly.
You don't agree with what is going on here, and that's fine. A lot of people don't. But do you honestly think that everyone here is blinkered, and ignorant, and arrogant enough to think there is not another point of view? Why would be lie to ourselves? In this instance, I'm not stealing. Filesharing is not stealing. When I steal, I admit it. I've occasionally shoplifted, I don't sugarcoat it, I STOLE something. Why would I be open about that, and not this?

Which is a good argument, Bluesoup.  But it's still stealing.  Whether or not paysites were ever meant to be, whether or not people are tired of paysites, etc. - again, it's just excuses for stealing.  If you're tired of paying for content, don't.  As for "stuff being held hostage" - goodness.  Last I checked, you are not required to have XYZ custom content in your game.  So how is said content being held hostage?  You don't want it, don't pay for it.  But don't delude yourself as to what you're about - theft.

Nouk, thanks :-)  And I get you about Pirates not being the Smurfs.  I'm just amazed (take BlueSoup, for example) at the lies people will tell themselves to feel that they're justified or somehow not stealing.  And yes, I will try to read more as I can.

Lastly, I'll save everyone the trouble of guessing - no, I've never posted here before.  I saw a link in a forum that I frequent last night and previously had no idea that this site existed.

it's funny how you can lie to yourself, eh?

For example. My friend buys a box of candies. And shares the candies with me. Cause he's such a good friend, of course.

Now. He paid. I didn't. He got candy. I got candy. All is well. All is good.

I didn't grab the candy box and steal it from him. Life is beautiful. O la la.

Please explain to me how it is that you aren't stealing?  You've gained something in a way that was not intended, against the owner's wishes.  How is that not stealing?  just because something is in a digital format and not a solid bit of mass that you can hold in your hand doesn't mean that it's not a tangible thing with value.  Do you also "fileshare" games while gaming companies are going belly-up?  I don't get your logic that you feel it isn't stealing just because it's digital.

So yeah, IMHO, you are lying to yourself.

And the problem with that logic... your friend's box of chocolates has a fixed number of candies in it.  Whether he shares with you, eats them all himself, or gives them to his girlfriend, once those chocolates are gone, they're gone.  He's not magically duplicating the box so that no matter how many he gives away or eats he's always got a full box of chocolate.

Next.

And the problem with your logic is...it isn't about the fricking chocolates. it was about the POINT of that story.

Next.

Pescado do I even have to ask?  :D

If you think I am lying to myself, well you just don't know me at all. :P

First of all, I've spent well over $200 on custom content alone.  I never said I needed any of it.  When I said that content was "being held hostage," I meant that creators with overinflated egos have determined that their shit is worth well over what Maxis/EA has determined their own stuff to be worth.

Do you really think it's fair for some shite creator to detemine that 8 lousy skins is worth $5 which is a quarter of what EA charges for an entire add-on stuff pack?

Give me a fucking break.

Also, I don't have any of this shit in my game.  I have very specific creators that I love and I've happily donated to them where I could.  Most of what I have are from free sites.  The only reason I donate to paysites is because I either love it, or I got it specifically to share with others.

My mother and my kindergarten teacher both told me it's polite to share your toys, and who am I to argue with that kind of wisdom? ;)

Because they don't own the rights to it? It's not stealing in the sense of taking something away from someone, since they still have it too. It could only be stealing in the way that copying things which, can be and are, legally copyrighted/trademarked is stealing. And since the creators can't do that, how is it stealing?

Not that I would care about it even if it was stealing, to be honest.

Okay. For a start, I havn't downloaded anything from here. Not that I don't intend to, but I need a new PC. So I personally have obtained nothing, let's not get personal about this. But as has been explained many times, filesharing is not the same as stealing. Filesharing is a redistribution.

What WOULD be stealing, is, for example, giving out passwords to paysites, or finding some way of leeching, thus costing a creator bandwidth, for example. Stealing is something that would deprive the original owner of something, be it a THING, or money they would have gotten for that THING. Yes, potentially, a paysite owner will get less money for files being paid for, but, they're not supposed to be making profit, if they charge, they are only supposed to be covering site costs.

Its like...if I drew a picture, and I had my piece of paper, and my crayons, and I gave that picture to someone, and it was a really pretty picture...That someone photocopies my picture, and give it to their grandma...it's costing me nothing for them to do that, they've used their own paper to copy it onto, my crayons aren't being worked down at all, it's all good, no stealing there...

And, what, pray tell, was the point?

To use your brains once in a while.  :roll:

Nope, I don't think it's a fair market value to pay $5 for a PoS skin.  So I don't pay said $5, nor do I have said skins in my game.  And while I'll agree with that, I don't agree that the correct course of action is to take said work and post it for anyone who wants it.

What, if avic has been the latest hypocrit to come in here, someone who wants to argue against PMBD while dipping his/her grubby little fingers in the booty at the same time? lol

Speak your piece avic, yay or nay, JM will find you out either way...are you a hypocrit?

Your logic works for me.  So shouldn't a creator only get paid for making said item only once?  Instead of magically replicating the same creation and getting paid over and over again for the same exact item?

When retailers get paid for anything, they must provide something tangible for each item they sell.  A shirt, a toy or a box of choclates perhaps...

Nope.  I looked at the sites that were up for grabs, but I haven't downloaded the first thing.  Of course, this is my work computer, not my home one, so you only have my word on that, but hey :-)

And Silverfish, and Jesserocket, you make very good arguments.  In the case of paysites, it's not so black and white, because as you say, they aren't supposed to be making a profit.  But in the case of someone who makes a living from creative content, yes, you are stealing from them each time someone gets a game or music or ebooks or what-have-you that they didn't pay for.

As for Silverfish, I don't think the argument holds in the case of entertainment.  It's not a wholly tangible item, and so it's a bit harder to judge in that case.  But let's say someone sneaks into a movie.  They're stealing a free show, but the theatre's not necessarily out any money if the person couldn't/wouldn't have paid to begin with.  And what if they recorded the movie while they were there and made copies for all their friends?  The theatre still isn't directly out any money, but does that make it right?  Do you, or anyone else, have the right to something without paying for it just because?  I don't think so.

And lastly, Torque, I'm not the one slinging insults, thanks.  When you decide you actually want to debate civilly, let me know.  Otherwise, you're not contributing to the discussion.

Speaking of discussion, thanks to all of those who have actually taken the time to post a well-thought-out response :-)

Answer this question. Paysites tell us everywhere that they own the copyright. When I go to the site though they tell me this

This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or its licensors. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors. All Rights Reserved

They know I paid them money for access to  GAME CONTENT. and they also tell me that on their site (meaning their specific files) Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc So tell me where exactly am I going against a copyright and STEALING anything. I did pay for the access(I am not sharing the access) and EA has made it plan and clear that we can share GAME CONTENT. They actually have set up the EXCHANGE so people can share GAME CONTENT, so you really need to come up with a better argument. Hey, I have an idea, why dont you people use your secret forum to come up with a better argument instead of sharing personal info because quite frankly a lot of people have come to our side because of that sharing of personal information. I think even EA may step in and make their point a little clearer now that there is a danger aspect from going to a paysite.

Actually, I just had a very good rebuttal on this one.  Do we REALLY want a creator to only charge "once" for an item?  How much are you willing to pay to go see a movie, buy a game, etc.?  If creators only charge "once" that means we'll be paying $100 million to go see a movie, or $10 million for a game, etc.  If they didn't break it down, it wouldn't be affordable at all.  So, yeah, in the case of non-tangible entertainment items, they have to "magically replicate" and get paid over and over for the exact same item.

Not into debates. Boring.

But you sound more reasonable already.
I don't hate you or anything.  :wink:

Firstly, I'm not "you people", so I don't have more than passing knowledge of said "secret forum", nor do I have access to it.

Secondly, I'm not a copyright lawyer, so I don't know the specifics of who owns what.  I suspect that it's very gray.  However, as of yet EA has done nothing to stop said paysites, so that in itself is tacit approval since it isn't as though the paysites are hiding.

Thirdly, it's up to each individual who creates content how they wish to share it, whether strictly among friends, for free to whoever wants it, or charging $50 a head.  It's up to each individual who downloads whether or not they want to meet the requirements to get such content honestly.  Don't want to pay?  Don't.  Nobody's forcing you.  

And as for whether or not EA wants to shut down the paysites, that's purely their business and I don't think it really has any bearing on whether or not it's ethical to repost files which are provided on paysites.

Good thing :-)  I do LOVE your avatar, btw :-)

Just a random image off of Google. But thanks, I like it too.  :wink:

Oh wait, now we want to go with ethical argument? First thing I am gonna point out here is that EA has done nothing to stop the sharing of files either, this would include when those same PAY files are posted on the EXCHANGE. Using your logic we can say that although they are not stopping paysites, they are not stopping sharers either, so they approve of both.

As far as the grey area, there is no grey area, It is a requiremnt of EA that every site, whether pay or free, has to put that on their site. And it is not double talk, it does not beat around the bush, it is plain straight English and it says Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. There is nothing else on the site. It is ALL GAME CONTENT

The difference between file sharers and paysite owners (talking about ethics here) is that file sharers would never put another person in danger over a game. We would not photoshop our stuff to make it look better than it is just to get your money. and there is a ton of other things we could all list about Ethics. If you are taking the time to read this forum, then please take the time to find the post where someone (posting on behalf of paysites) mentioned a visit to Blue's mom. If you want to debate ethics I would highly suggest you do it on behalf of yourself and NOT in regards to paysites.

Wow.  Not much to say on that.  I will see if I can find said posts.  Oh, and Blue - if I interpreted that correctly, I'm sorry that anyone threatened your family.  Ick.

YOUR PROBEBLY SOME RETARD HATING HIS LIFE BECAUSE HE DONATED TO THE PAYSITES AND DIDNT RELIZE THERE WAS A SITE LIKE THIS SHUT THE FUCK UP HUN AND GO GET A LIFE, OH AND WATCH YOUR SIMS WOOHOOING CAUSE THATS THE CLOSEST YOULL GET TO A REAL FUCK ASSHOLE.  :oops: Muah**Kisses**

HotNWet. Shush. Please. That's not the way we play here. SRSLY. LURK MOAR.

Henceforth you are implying by stating that because you are at work, and cannot or will not download at work, that you will not download there, but should you be at home, hey anything's fair game and you would download were you at home.

And of course by all means it is okay to waste your company's time and money on this forum debating this issue...lol.  You are in essence STEALING their money by not doing whatever it is they pay you to actually do.  Certainly you cannot tell me that they pay you to sit there and debate this issue.

So in your eyes I see that stealing in some instances is okay...

Theres confusion between legal and ethical issues here. Neither unauthorised redistribution of these files, nor selling them in the first place is illegal, but could be seen as very unethical(ofcourse thats subjective).  Anyway it seems you missed the purpose of this website, not being to share/steal content for the greater good with those who can't afford it, but simply because *Paysites Must Be Destroyed!*  

Fan art becoming business isn't illegal here but its wrong, stealing that art isn't illegal but still wrong.  So do two wrongs make a right? Depends which side you are on really.

Sure the honest thing to do would be to not download here or from the paysites if you want.  You as one that wouldn't have subscribed to the nonesense anyway wouldn't even be contributing to the destruction of paysites by downloading it here.

lol im sorry i just wanted to hate on him, like wut an asshole lol i love this site i adore this site!!! omg hes calling us theifs if i saw him on the streets i would beat him with my gucci purse!!!

I don't want to restate anything that's already been said about EA copyright ect.  However, CC in the sims was intended to be shared freely.  Read the EULA (non-profit), read any interviews with the games creator Will Wright and he advocates the open sharing of custom content, and then ponder the fact to why EA would go through the efforts of hosting an exchage.  Seems pretty clear to me that EA ("the owners" -- and with all the information we have from EA and EULA there is no argument in this) wants us to have these files.

As for honesty, I want some honesty from paysite owners, who are breaking the law, who are charging against the terms in the EULA, instead of the dozen of excuses they seem to have as to why they should be able to charge such prices for their content.

Uhhh, yeah.  I'm blown away by your intelligence... :roll:

OMG OMG I WANNA BE SMART 2 ... OKAY HERE I GOOO UMMMMMMMMM OKAY THE REASON WHY SIMS 2 IS SO POPULAR ITS BECAUSE OF CUSTOM CONTENT SO BY ENABLING PAYSITES NOT MANY USERS WILL BE ABLE TO GET THE CUSTOM CONTENT... SOOO NOT MANY PEOPLE will be interested in the sims because not 2 many people will be able to get the custom content... buttom line is ea wants FREE content so there game could keep on selling "and if that doesnt make sense it makes sense to me, so ima keep on downloading" omg im SMART!  :lol:

I'm sure you would. But we get it a lot here, so, like, don't be a hater. :)

lol shutup u luv it!

HotnWet, please stop posting in all-caps.  It's annoying as hell.

Troll? Or just idiot?

Nope, I won't download from home, either.  As for stealing from my boss, I'm blessed enough that I don't have to engage in "busy work".  Once my work is done, I can goof off, but I still have to be here until 4:30.  So.

lol but im suppose to be yelling!!!!

Kinda distracts from having a serious conversation with someone.

who are you talking about?

Both, I think.

HotnWet, you know when you sign up for this forum, you are supposed to agree that you can convincingly act over the age of 12.

Kindly remember that. ;)

you're kidding right?  :roll:

lol im 17...........................

There is no 17, only 12.

Also, the key word there is ACT. Convincingly ACT over the age of 12.

Dayum....  (http://hosersz.com/rt/images/smiles/icon_pray.gif)

So, what's with the name?

ummm i was trying to be annoying, hes rude to be in here calling people theifs, i don't believe that selling memberships for 40$ is to help bandwith people are trying to make every little dime they can off us and some of us just can't afford it.... thats why i got pissed off

That doesn't mean that you can "convincingly act over the age of 12." You're doing a poor job of acting anything relatively close to your age.

ummm im really hot cause im in Canada and its cold, we have the heat on so its HOT!!! yet outside its wet cause its rainy!

Yes, that's how all of us feel, but people disagreeing with us goes with the territory...

dude seriously calm down..... avic wasn't calling us names she/he was being coherent, theres no reason to freak out at them.... if you want to be like that you can go back to the BBS

fair enough, i was trying to annoy the person that was making the allegations, however i am mature and can handle myself... matter of a fact its a good time to start.. "I START NOW!"

 :roll: You should have read the whole thread before you jumped in. avic is actually more sensible than the other "omgz you're so lame, low-life trash"-callers.

and ive come to relies that, therefor you also need to chill out and read the rest of my posts...

did that... wasn't much more impressed by them....  :shock:

too bad, cause I would love to say *someone* is the new Vulzard

i actualy have been hanging arround this forum for a bit now, just haven't signed up and seen a few of them. I just don't understand why people freak out about it.

Actually, there needs to be more debates like this. Maybe if the yelling, screaming and name calling stopped there could be an actual real debate. It would be nice to have all the debates in one thread. Calm rational debates and then let everyone take it from there. I respect someone that comes into a forum with a decent debate. I dont expect the world to agree with me and I dont condemn anyone for the beliefs.

because, once again, this is not the BBS... we do try to have coherent conversations here...

umm, why did you freak out about it, then?

Thanks, Torque :-)  And while I don't agree with filesharing, I've pretty much decided, ESPECIALLY after this last page, that you's quality people, as Simi would say ;-)

i would love that because ever since ive seen paysites ive had my own feelings towards like i hate how they have the cool pictures that make you want the item and you just sit there and stare at it and wish that it was yours... i hate that, i hate the fact that people have taken a little fun game and turned it into a money making machine.

Five stars...

uhrmmmm.... very much off topic... but thats nice, i guess?

because i hate people of accusing me or just other people of stuff without understanding situations, "AND I KNOW I HAVE CLEARLY DONE THAT... so i want to say im sorry about that" (about freaking out about a situation i didnt know about)

You know, this WAS a good thread but somehow they always mangae to turn to shit. Maybe that is why nobody listens to anyone.

Amen to that.  Though I don't hink a single thread would work... to many people not wanting to read what has already been said and then just restating another's argument...

Maybe different section for it?  ARRRG?

:lol:  I don't mind.  I like when people make my points for me ;-)

so maybe i should get out and leave you guys be... all i wanna say is thanks for sucha site... and it was nice to talk to you guys for like 3 minutes... bye  :wink:

LMAO!  I'll put that in the official suggestion box.

while i don't agree that what we are doing is wrong.... i do think that you probably a good person and at least you were coherent and decent and weren't trying to bash us in the head with your opinion..... :)

Hey, noone has to leave.

You know what this forum needs?

A way to stop nesting quotes.

Well, I learned something.  While I don't necessarily agree with the way the site goes about making its point, I damn sure don't agree with people sharing PayPal info and making threats against others families.  Furthermore, if someone shows up at my house (because, yeah, I donated to Rose), well.  I live in the South, and I really don't think the person who showed up would like it.  Grrr.

well i got off to wrong start and i butt into a thread that i didn't understand about, so i don't want to bother anyone...

WHAT? No more witty one-liners? Argggh!!!

BlueSoup, this is supposed to be all about FUN!!!  :cry:

I like quotes in quotes in quotes!  It's like looking at an Escher painting!

's okay :-)  Just in future if you don't start out yelling and cussing, people tend to take you a bit more seriously.  But I'll play nice if you will, 'cuz BlueSoup and the others here have seriously impressed me, and I don't want to cause strife.  Debate, sure... strife, nah.

Edit:  Made no sense without the quote :-)

Hey, people make mistakes. Nobody is perfect. Because there is no perfection, only awesomeness, like Pescado says.

So, don't let it get you down and just be awesome, ok?  8)  :wink: You're not bothering anyone.

Nah, just the nesting of them...so they don't end up with a teeny tiny little box in the middle...:lol:

thanks your sweet.

oh, ok. alright.  :lol:

 :wink:

if i'm so sweet, you could borrow me that gucci bag once in a while.  :P

just kidding, just kidding.

now we're majorly off-topic here.

There is a way to stop the evil nesting cycle.

But you have to be paying attention when you quote and delete the non-quoted parts of the quote.

Otherwise you get the mirror facing a mirror thing. Although considering that I am completely zorked on Theraflu, I find it to be rather amusing.

I don't mean quotes altogether, that's ridiculous.

But the quote upon quote upon quote...well, you get the idea.  

Just my personal pet peeve is all, it won't happen on Pescado's forum.

no problem, so will you ever use this site?

LMAO! any time lol

BlueSoup, I'm stupid.  :P

Oh well. I like happy endings.  :D Especially the ones with gucci purses.

The word "stealing" is pretty much interpreted differently by everyone here. I was about to list some examples, but I realized that everything was said.

Except maybe...

I could almost argue that paysites are stealing everyone because they charge so much.

But I didn't say that. :lol:

Anyway, I personally see it as a way of protesting.

And yes, I'm happy with these pay items. :D And I don't have any shame saying it.

Nope.  I'll probably hang out here, 'cuz I love gossip, and everybody seems way cool, but I won't be snagging downloads off this site.  I will still pay my $5 here and there to those sites I frequent.  I will say, though, that Rose will NEVER, EVER get another red cent out of me.

you shouldn't!!! you know they just steal your money, see i know a few things about web hosting and i know it shouldn't cost them $5000 dollars each month for bandwidth!! i just hate how they go around tricking people! anyways what are some of the sites you donate to? are they any good?

Glad we could win you over, in some small way :)

HotNWet...down girl...See this is what we're talking about...you need to calm down a bit, you make a good point, but you come across like an over-excited rottweiler...:)

Avic has made their choice, and that is to be respected, a zillion exclaimation marks aren't nessessary.

Hey, gossip is as good a reason to be here as any.  I never knew there was so much drama surrounding the sims.  Guess I wasn't paying much attention during The Sims 1.  That, or the fact that almost every other board deletes posts and threads.

:lol:  I'm actually pretty hot about the Rose thing.  And I am SERIOUSLY considering contacting PayPal about it.  

And HnW, believe it or not, I know a thing about web sites, too.  I'm a smidge older than 17, and I've been working online for about 10 years.  And I know a LOT of graphic artists that got shut down because their bandwidth was killing them.  Granted, that was back before you could get scads of transfer for not a lot of money, but still.  But you know what?  Making money because someone wants what you've made or built is part of the American Dream.  Otherwise all we'd ever be able to do is work for corporate America, ya know?

As for the sites I donate to, I've chucked $5 here and there, but I regularly (about every three months or so - I wait for a buildup of updates) donate to TSR, Sims Connection, and Well Dressed Sim.

i like TSR, im always confused thought do the creators and webmasters make money? cause you hear about sites like sims sisters moving there and stuff.. sims connection is cool they have some cute hair!! well dressed sims has some pretty good stuff as well.[/b]

Creators at TSR don't get paid, although they do get free subs, I think. I dunno about the webmasters, but given the price of TSR subs, I wouldn't be surprised if they did...

I know FA's make money.  Though it's not much.  You pretty much have to be constanly pumping out content and have people constantly downloading it in order to make anything substaintial.

Oh, it was fishy when Sims Sisters and Icedmango (?) moved to TSR around the same time... XD

Fishy you say? WhaddImiss?!?!!?

When people like you (the paysite groupies) post here I always wonder what your real purpose is  :roll: Do you Honestly think any one here cares about your opinion (other than the fun gained from poking fun at it)? Or, do you and your cronies post so you can tell fellow anal asses that "You TooK A Stand" against the evil pirates thereby gaining brownie points? Or are you simply a dumb kid who's parents need to supervise better?   :twisted:



Pirates rock and paysites suck

Well glad we cleared the downloading issue then, you should have said so from the beginning.

You are stealing, both money and time, doesn't matter what label you try to sugarcoat it with.  You certainly aren't working, you've admitted that.  You're sitting there on your ass not trying to do a damn thing to better the company that you're working for.  

You are taking advantage of the situation and coming here instead and telling all of us how we are "stealing".

Ironic, isn't it?

You don't see "goofing off" as "stealing" anymore than any of us see sharing files as "stealing".   Whereas you see "goofing off" as something your boss probably told you it was okay to do, we see file-sharing as something Maxis/EA told us it was okay to do.  

It's all in how you perceive the situation...

you seem to have missed the entire conversation.... maybe a read through the posts would help you there?

I think she is entitled to her opinion of it none the less, and rather brave I might add.  I don't see to many people posting at all the other anti-shairng sites in the community to take a stand for sharing.  

If you actually take the time to answer her questions instead of insult her maybe you could help to change them.

Lurk moar?

(in response to dbmagick, damn you Sherry, you keep leaping in and posting and making it look like my flippant remarks are directed at you!! :D)

LOL I love your flippant remarks anyhow!

Oh, nothing new... TSR hiring some new artists. :roll: I was kind of surprised when both sites decided to close for space/bandwith issues and moved to TSR as FA around the same time. I didn't know about some FA getting paid until I read Motoki's gossip. :lol: So really... the usual. XD

Let's see, I wouldn't precisely call myself a "paysite groupy".  I fully agree that there are some sucky paysites out there.  I don't give them my money and I don't expect anyone else to, either.   Last I checked, I have no "cronies", I'm not real sure where you got that from.  I don't really know the people in Sim Content Creator circles, so no brownie points to be gained.  Yes, I do disagree with pirating, I was with a guy in the industry for five years, so yes, I can say that it hurts the gaming industry, and yes, I am forthright enough to give my opinion when the subject comes up.  As for whether or not people care about my opinion, I'd like to think they do.  I care about other people's opinions, and that is, after all, how one grows - by listening to the opinion of others.  Lastly, am I dumb kid?  I'm probably older than you, and I'll refrain from a catty comment about the wonderful, deep thoughts expressed in your own post, which I won't even call a rebuttal.

FA's get payd VERY VERY well, trust me ...

I'll use the same argument that's been thrown out a couple of times, here - that is that you don't know me.  Nor do you know what I do, or what the company I work for does.  Suffice it to say, when work needs to be done, I do it.  I am here, regardless, to provide support for people in the field if they need it and to answer the phone when people call in.  We don't work with the public, and considering the time of year (a week before thanksgiving) we aren't doing a lot of business this week or next, so yeah, there's some downtime.  Believe it or not *shrug*, but I've been working here for four years and that doesn't usually happen at a micro-sized company if you aren't pulling your weight.

Well it was Maxis( and not EA)
Now EA ate Maxis (wholly), so we'll see what's next.

There can't be debate if arguments get personal.



THAT well? ... I want numbers! XD

What was Maxis? Speaking of, Maxis is back! :) http://www.maxis.com/

The one who closed the eyes because of the paysites.
But look all the statements on Sims2.com and the new (Pets) Bodyshop.

Oh, I see. :)

I just want Spore... I admit it, that game has me salivating.

Yeah, Spore's gonna be either absolutely the most incredible thing that has ever happened to gaming or....well, it doesn't bear thinking of.

There. Now no-one will ever know!!! :D

Dont jinx it!

It's been a hectic weekend, so I missed out on this whole thread from the beginning, but I must say it's a debate that I very much approve of and strive to begin on other forums sometimes.  Bravo Avic for comming here with an open enough mind to begin a debate that doesn't degenerate (too much) into name calling and crying.

It is very much a gray area with EA and the community right now, they allow paysites and even link to them on the exchange, but they also allow files from those sites to be shared on the exchange. Obviously while they have no problem stating that they own the content, they are leaving it up to the community to sort the whole issue out.

As for who legally owns the stuff, thats an easy answer. EA does, they could take every bit of custom content that any of us created, never pay us a dime, and put it all in the next EP. I sincerely hope they wouldn't do something like that, but they could. The rest of it gets fuzzy. Based on ethics, which side is right? Is it the pay sites that contend that because they made it, they have the right to charge for it? Or is it the filesharers who contend that because EA has said that the files themselves cannot be charged for, only bandwidth, distribution is kosher?

The thing is, paysite owners aren't stupid. They know filesharing has existed almost as long as paysites have. Though they didn't much like it, the consensus was pretty much to overlook it and not advertise it, as long as it stayed underground. When Pescado opened this site, the uproar began because this was all in the open, and anyone could come and get it, no secret handshakes necessary. They're afraid that no one will pay for their items if they can get them free.

It is something I could almost commiserate with, except for the fact that paysites have gotten out of hand. Instead of charging a modest fee to cover bandwidth, people are charging increasingly high prices for sometimes bad work in order to turn a profit. Sites are starting up for the express purpose of charging for content to make a profit. Others in this thread have mentioned the kind of tactics that some paysite owners use, deceptive photoshopping and that kind of thing.

Basically, what this site is about is taking a stand. We don't want paysites. The files hosted here are pretty much a means to an end for Pescado, he has already stated that he doesn't give a crap about the files, he's just hoping to damage paysites. Not all of us think that every site owner must shoulder the entire cost of the site themselves, but charging overinflated prices then claiming that the total of the proceeds go to bandwidth is an insultingly transparent lie.

Also, by the standards of paysite owners, if we are thieves, then they are as well,  to a worse degree. We may be sharing files for a game, but they are swapping personal information about customers. I know that to them, all is fair in protecting the almighty dollar, but this is an outrageously unethical low.

Anyway Avic, you are more than welcome here, whether you indulge in downloading the files hosted on the server or not. I wont even take a cheap shot at you with my knockoff prada purse. :P

Wow :-)  That is an amazing post.  I'm headed home, and I'll give some more thought to it on the way home, but honestly there's not much to argue that I can think of off the top of my head.   I will say that much of my argument has been based upon pirating in general - as applies mainly to games - and not really targeted towards the paysites issue.  That said - there's a lot going on with the paysites that I didn't really know about and frankly, I'm less than happy over.

And if you don't take a shot at me with your knock-off Prada, I won't return the favor with my knock-off Ruger ;-)

This (in part) is the debate that people should be reading. Finally, some real points have been made clear and both sides have been heard. Legally, EA is perfectly clear. Ethically...it may seem grey, but it gets more complicated if one looks more deeply into the issues. Having finally gotten a look at this pay content, I have to bring out the fact that it is not regulated in any way. Food, products, etc. are regulated in that consumers know they are safe products and look as they are shown.

With some of these files offered by paysites (and free sites), we get no indication of the quality, safeness, or even if they look anything like the pictures shown. If I d/l a free files and it stinks...delete. If I buy a file and it is bad, then I have been robbed. Too many times, files are NOT half as good as they are shown to be. "Buyer beware"? Maybe. But without regulations, then we also must be concerned that people who have paid for a file that was not represented fairly have been cheated.

Just my opinion, but something that has been bothering me since the debate began. Maybe some enjoy the free files, but some of us have been more interested in finding out the truth that had been hidden for far too long.

The truth that has been hidden for so long is exactly why the paysites thought underground sharing was good and open sharing was bad. Because the "truth" would hurt them greatly and it has.

I could agree with whom says that it's a matter of choices: nobody force you to buy, nobody needs those pay items ever, so the right thing to do is not buy them, and go without.
I could agree, because I am one of them: can't afford/don't want to pay = go without the items and so long.

But - and that's why I am here, praising the initiative - is because, sometimes, to be quiet and not messing with simply makes the things go worse.
"The Federation has gone too far" (sorry, but I HAVE the need to quote something from Star Wars :P): someway the whole trend has to be put back into perspective. First, it needs a big shake-up: let the rage flow, let people going mad, let arguments arose, let's shouting out loud.
Sharing files - or any other "bad" action versus paysites - in silence leads to nothing. No, I correct myself: it supports the viewing of protesters as thieves and generically illecit people.

Let the fuss calm down, and that will be the moment to start reconsidering what is right and what is wrong; till then, you only have to force the adverse party to came out and show everybody all their skeletons in the closet.
I must admit that they're doing it rather quickly and pretty well by themeselves, though.

ETA: Argh! It took me ages to write this post, and in the meantime liegenschonheit has written exactly what I meant, but way better. So, may I say "I totally agree"?  :oops:
*searching the thanks button... baaaaahhhhh*

I don't know if that is exactly the case.  Liegenschonheit, stated Pescado started open sharing, and it is why Paysites are now in an uproar.  Thus, in effect referring to places like the SFV as "underground" sharing, which to a certain extent I can agree with.  We don't try to hide or sharing, but the community's censorship of us has somewhat forced us to be an underground sort of site.

Yet paysite owners were never happy or thought that underground sharing was "good", if they did we wouldn't have had to deal with the four years of fake lawyer letters, threats, closures, bitching like we had to.  

When SFV first opened to the Public on Ezboard, the statement was just as big for the community as what Pescado making now, and we recieved just as much flack for it, and site owners were just as angry and flaky in their tactics to stop us.

Paysites don't like sharing, open or otherwise.  They are just more threatened, when more people know, and will become more involved until they can censor the site down to a level where no too many newer people notice it.

Pescado also has been posting big fat links on InSim and MATY, so I think it got quite some publicity. And then, you got some people posting it in guestbooks, signatures... :lol:

Coliss there are always ways to get advertisement for your site.  Don't forget PMBD is brand new.  It's not like at the SFV we wanted to be this little underground sharing site, but after 4 years or dealing with threats, trying to protect your members from paysite owners like rose, or birgit you get tired.  

Probably the reason why alot of older members at the SFV are not around here, they have already rehashed alot of these issue for years and I think are frankly too sick of them to do it again.

You learn that the quieter you are, the quieter things become for you.  I think alot of us who had been through this drill awhile ago had like the quiet.  We never stopped members from sending others invites, SIH even set up anonymous email invites but being able to relax more is nice too.

Ah, I know Sherry. Though I wasn't aware of SFV before coming here, I'm pretty sure people prefered not to post everywhere about SFV. I personally wouldn't, unless it's between friends because I know for sure they don't like paysites. Pescado probably does not give a flying f**k about receiving threats though. XD

Thats why I said that paysite owners weren't happy about sharing, just were more inclined to ignore it if it is underground. They hate SFV, but they weren't about to go around giving free advertising for the site either when so many people didn't know about it (except a few dumb ones :P). Just like they don't go out of their way to stamp out every underground yahoo group or email filesharing circle. It's better not to let people know about it. If SFV were to have been suddenly linked to on every popular site again, I would be willing bet that it would have gotten the same reaction.

I think it would be nice to hear some of the stories from others about how their sites or yahoo groups have been shut down by paysites and how they exactly went about doing it. I think it would be good for people to see just how nasty they can get. Would surely stop the ethics arguments from coming through. Well, ok not stop them but could knock them down a bit.

Not really.  There's always the stance of "Two wrongs don't make a right."  As for myself, I intend on not downloading files here, but I'm also making a note of sites that are doing things that I don't condone (Rose comes to mind) and I will not ever pass money their way again, if I have in the past.

Intend? ;) Really, no one's going to bite you. :lol:

What about three?

1. Paysites charging more than just to cover bandwidth costs (not illegal, I suppose).
2. People sharing files they have rightfully purchased from a paysite for free so that they're not 'stealing money' from the people they initially received the file(s) from (also not illegal, I suppose).
3. Paysites sharing personal information such as phone numbers, email addresses, homes addresses, names etc. with third parties in a bitter rage (may very well be illegal).

Would anyone care to add anything else to the list?

My opinion of the matter is that the blame falls on EA's shoulders and since they are turning a blind eye to everything and "letting the community hash it out".  By not taking a stance means that no one is right and no one is wrong.

Since it is clear that EA owns all copyrights and they aren't one of the ones on Pescado's list off official complaintants means that they don't have a problem with him either.  I know for a fact that they know about this site.  

EA chooses no stance because either way they go they will have an uproar that ultimately hurts the overall sales of their game.  The trith of the matter is they are a corporation full of corporate greed and only about the bottom line.

I will say that comparing filesharing of Sims 2 game content to software piracy is comparing apples to oranges.  Making custom content is not that huge of a production.  In my opinion, paysite owners have gotten greedy and if they are treating custom content creation as a source of income they really should get a real job.  

I have no issue with a site owner that offers content and has a paypal button for "thanks".  It's the one with the exclusive pay per items and memberships that chap most people's asses including mine.

Mostly it doesn't take much at all, save a few paysite owners to contact a domain or yahoo.  You can fight about it all you want but, once places see *copyright infrigement* most are not willing to listen to both sides of the story, it's not worth the risk to them. *Most* places don't think hosting filesharing is worth a) the risk or b) the effort of sorting through and answering the overflow of paysite owner complaints when you are technically not gaining too much or any profit from them.   Which is why SIH bough a server for the SFV, didn't want to have to deal with the site closing and having to start from scratch.

Basically look at what Slice sent in his complaint here.   They are used to shutting down sites without much effort or involvement, and with no proof whatsoever of copyright.  

That said paysite owners really only get nasty to sites they can't close down, and I don't think I am exaggerating when we use rosesims and birgit as an example now, was like the blackbook was for us.

You don't even need to look at filesharing to see how 'nasty' paysite owners can get.  Look at places like the roundtable that had sprung up in the sims past.  You can truly see what people behave like when money is on the line.

:lol:  Perhaps a poor choice of words, but, well.  That is what I will do.



1.  Part of the American dream.  If you make something that others want and are willing to pay for, shouldn't you make money?  Obviously they aren't charging more than the market will bear, or people wouldn't be paying the rates.
2.  Depends.  Should a creator be able to say how and where their creations are posted, and under what terms?  We can probably argue about that one until the cows come home.
3.  Not only wrong, but actually got me pretty torqued, and I plan on sending a note to PayPal detailing just how unhappy I am about it.



I think you're pretty right on this one, DelMita.  EA doesn't want to step in the middle of this because no matter which way they rule they're going to piss someone off.  Custom content is good for them, and good for business, but siding with either party on this is not a good business/political move for them.

As for the filesharing:software piracy, I'm also willing to concede this point.  And I did start this thread from an anti-piracy point of view, but I think it's a lot deeper than this.  Custom Content is not a living for most of the creators, or maybe it is, but regardless, it's on the same shaky footing as gold farming in MMO's.  As such, it's not on the same level as software piracy.  However, it does still beg the question of what a creator's rights should be.  I tend to lean towards they can attach any stipulations or charges they want to their content.  If I don't like it, I don't have to pay for it.  Both things are part of what this country was built upon - capitalism.

Personally, I'd like to see a stickied thread listing the sites that have done something nasty (and I don't count bitching, whining or sending a cease and desist letter as being nasty) posted along with a brief synopsis of what they did.  I WOULD consider what Rose did to be high on the list, and also I believe it was Lackey that said someone had threatened BlueSoup's family.  

I don't know if that's possible, but it would be helpful for people like me who don't plan to grab files from here but will boycott sites/creators that are being heinous.

Somewhat OT from me, THIS country is Malaysia (;)) and the country I'm personally currently sitting in was not built on capitalism.

That is all. :)

Ah, true.  BUT, most of the people posting here are probably American.  And what WAS Malaysia built upon, anyway? ;-)

I like this thread.  It didn't get all evil like all the other ones do.



They can, and are.  But because the items they're making aren't really theirs, they're also up for grabs.  Kind of.  I'm sure you've already realized how fuzzy this part gets.



They have.  EA [read: the creators of the stuff these people are basing their work on] says we can share their items up the wazoo.  The CC creators can alter the product to make it look however they choose, but the product is EA's.



I'd pay to see all the complaints PayPal is getting over this.  So many people have said they're going to complain.   :lol:

Sorry, I didn't mean to interject myself right in the middle of your debate.  I'm just bored.  Feel free to ignore me.

I'm gonna guess piracy. :D As I've mentioned a few times around the place, I first ever got into The Sims when my grandfather brought me back a pirated copy of TS1 from Malaysia cos he knew I played SimCity constantly....;)

We must also look at the fact that most of the creators are in fact using pirated software to make the objects that they are selling but not selling because they cant. THe word stealing really needs to be stopped. If you purchase a new movie from Walmart and your mother wants to watch it, do you let her? If you do, Is it stealing? I mean let's face the company that made it never intended for your mother to watch it for free. Before you argue to much, if the movie leaves your home and goes to another home than it is sharing something that the company intended for each household to pay for. Every single file here was paid for by someone. That someone chose to share it. We share things every single day in this world that at least one person had to pay for and the other did not. Anyone that states they have never shared anything to save someone else money, I would have to call a liar. So why so much difference here. Why should we care what the paysites owners think? I dont get it. If you think they are not making a ton of money you are seriously not paying attention. Glam sims has over 5000 members, she said so herself. How many do you think pay a sub? Times that by the cost of her sub. That is a lot of money a month. We are not here to change the world. We are here to offer things to those that can not afford it. I dont know if anyone does or has ever subbed to Glams sims, but if you have, send her an email and complain about something. You might be real surprised by the return email and the rude comments she makes in it. Even so far as to tell you that she has a tone of members and doesnt need your money anyway.

You say it like capitalism is a good thing.  It's not always, look at Walmart as a prime example.

Also just because they *can* sell it, and I use can loosely because it's only due to EA's lack on involvement they have been allowed to continue, doesn't mean they should.

I guess if someone *wants* to pay for files they should be allowed to.  If someone doesn't want to, I think they have just as much a right to obtain them, as the only person breaking anysort of conditions in all this mess is usually paysite owner to begin with.

Wal Mart isn't pure capitalism; their low prices are supplimented by too many subsidies.

EDIT:  I don't know why I even bothered to mention that.  Continue ignoring me kplzthx.

whats sfv? is like another pirate site? what does it stand for?

Sims File Vault. It's a very nice site, with somewhat different sharing policies to here. :)

I'd be kind of interested to learn just how much money the better known pay sites are making.  It wouldn't make me stop paying for content I want, but hey - I'm a very curious type of person, though, and enquiring minds want to know ;-)

As for the thread not getting evil, it's been very nice, and led me to believe that there are some fine people here, whether or not I agree with everything.  Also, I have to say that it's been the wondermousness of BlueSoup, JesseRocket, Torque, and a couple of others that have quickly stomped on any embers before they could turn into a raging inferno that's kept this thread so nice.  Danke :-)

Well okay, I guess more point was more that there is far too much evil in captalism for me to think it's a good thing.  Far too much gets compromised, and abused in the system... but yeah comparing greedy paysites to it is a good example.  They do have alot in common.



Link in my www ;)

 Now I am gonna have to kill you. Ok your dead! :wink:

edit because it was backwards

im sorry i already got the link thanks sherry

oh nooo she was just trying to help!!

Check my www ;)

Why Lacky, we not supposed to mention it here?

thank you sherry lol i didn't know what you ment by www lol but are they worth signing up for?

Ignore you? With *that* avatar?

*staring fixedly wondering when he will get a facefull.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind milking the cash cow a little myself, but I would feel like I'd be giving a big slap in the face to the community, which has provided me with so many GB of gorgeous (and free) CC my game cries out in pain.

And I have no problem with pay sites taking donations, even if those donations exceed their cost and they just keep it as profit.  It's the slap in the face I don't appreciate, along with the issues of the creations only being theirs as far as altering it from EA's work goes.  If that makes sense.  I'm falling asleep here.

EDIT:

Well ignore the text and just have fun with your facial then.  Try not to get any in your eye--it burns.

No, it is fine, actually the addy is in several post on the board. I am just being a smartass today :D

Using your example - it depends.  In loaning the movie to your mom did you give her the DVD which you purchased?  If so, I don't have a problem with that.  While she's borrowing it, you don't have it.  If you want it AND she wants it, somebody will buy another copy (or they should).  Now, if you make her a copy of the DVD and send her off with that copy so that she has the movie AND you have the copy, and only one copy was paid for, well, then, that's theft.

As for sharing things, of course we share things.  My sister-in-law brought me a sack of books that she thought I'd enjoy.  And she was right.  I loved them enough that I want to have a set of the books for myself.  I therefore bought a set of them, because I know that she'll want her books BACK.  That's the nature of letting someone "borrow" something.

As for how much money a paysite makes, I don't see how that matters.  EA could certainly pitch a fit because it violates their EULA (though we've pretty much established that they won't).  If you say that a person or a company shouldn't make a certain amount of profit, then you take away the impetus of people to create, invent, or just go above and beyond in business.  So I don't really care how much money GlamSims makes (other than idle curiosity).   If they can make something that people like enough for them to make money off, good for them.

PS: Good point about half of them using pirated software.  Ick.

I dunno, SimChic pays her creators.  Or is supposed to, but sometimes doesn't, but that is a different story entirely.  Anhow back a year or so ago when SFV had maybe 300 members or so I remember Creche saying to ignore us and she usually get twice as many members donating to her site each month.  Pretty easy math, let's you assume she is making a decent buck for herself.

I R ded. :(

But without capitalism, all any of us could ever hope for would be to work 40-60 hours a week in the corporate grind.  Without the ability to take an idea, service or a product that others are willing to pay for and sell it and make a viable business out of it, what is there aside from working for the Wal-Marts of the world?

Surely alot, the owner of a TS1 adult paysite in it's dying days(few months before TS2 came out) was averaging USD$1000 a week.  He still runs the site with TS2 content now and says business is booming now.  Meshes purchased from turbosquid, hired staff to do the rest.  Staff can get payed in up to hundreds of dollars for some projects, and he isn't even a popular one(not known enough to make it in /booty).

But then it becomes commercial. I am sorry, you can argue you all you want but if your making 3,4 thousands dollars a month, that is commercial. Why is it so right for them to go against EA's rules and so wrong for us to go against theirs. I really just dont get the argument here. All I see is that we are doing what EA intended to be done and they are breaking all the rules but yet everyone gets on us in their defense. Not to mention the very clear statement that all Game content is copyright EA and EA said we can share it. I dont not see what is so hard to understand here. No one has come up with one good argument for this and for the most part has completely ignored the question all together.

Ok, stepping away now.

I think so cause I am a mod at the site lol, some people here have different opinions.

We have gifts that people make and good conversation if you are into that thing, there are plenty of nice people around.

Plus if you have specific request that haven't been put up here or that you are having touble pinpointing we are good for that too.

Downloading files is not as easy... you have to request them from someone who has them, or make a little list of the site of things you want and someone will send you a link for those items in a pm.  It's not super hard I don't think, but not as easy as the directory here.

So I think it has it's ups, registration is easy though, so you can always give it a shot.  If it's not your thing we have no hard feelings either way.

cool, well i just signed up with the same nickname as here, but being new and all people still give you files?

Make sure you read and understand all the stickies there, and you won't have a problem.

Absolutely!

lol by the way u said that bluesoup... im guessing im gonna have a problem??

awww thats sweet of them its really nice of people to pay money and give it to others for free i find that generous!

Maybe because an unconcerned EA who is not doing much about the situation is not as sympathic as a paysite owner who is trying to?

I have always been more sympathic to filesharers for that reason, here they are doing nothing wrong, wanting paysites to respect the rules of the EULA and everyone goes on about the "rights" of site owners.  Gamers have rights too.

Like Blue said, read and understand all the stickies. Everyone is lovely over there, but it's not quite a case of striding in and saying 'GIMME SUCH-AND-SUCH A FILE', it can be a bit complicated at first...:)

im intimidated already! i cant seem to find the filesharing posts were i can request and share lol :roll: ya... i think im sticking with the pirates! they almost remind me of MTS2  :( and i hate MTS2 they scare me

*pets HotNWet*

See, you didn't read the stickies, did you? :)

LMAO! well i tried but got bored lol

Yepper, I'll agree with you - it's definitely commercial.  And please don't feel I'm ignoring you, I'm not.  You've actually put me a LOT more on the fence about the custom content issue (not piracy - that's a different ball of wax).  HOWEVER, I feel strongly enough about people having the right to sell things at the price they see fit if they created it that I'd feel very hypocritical downloading from here.  But I'm very much revising my initial opinion of what THIS PARTICULAR SITE is doing (I emphasize this because as several people have pointed out, software piracy is NOT taking place).  I see both sides of the argument, and at this point I really don't feel that either party is in the right or the wrong, though I do feel certain individuals are definitely in the wrong (see a couple of my other posts on that one).

Ok, Now we are off.

Sorry :roll: lol every time i look at your avatar and see captain jack sparrow i get tingly HES JUST SOO HOT! i really do wish i was that apple  :(

Such as?  As a gamer, I expect to get a product that is reasonably bug free (I'd love to have one that is wholly bug-free, but ain't gonna happen) that fits the description on the box.  I also expect tech support to get my game to run on my machine if it's so bug-riddled that I can't figure it out on my own.  What other rights do/should I have?   I certainly don't have the right to custom content that some third party made on their own time without meeting whatever requirements said person attached to their creation.

??  Sorry - I didn't follow this comment.  Not sure if it was directed at me or something totally different.  I need more coffee... :-)

we got carried away and started talking about sfv.. the girls were just explaining to me the signing up process and stuff... it wasn't at you lol im the fuck up :( anyways IM READING THE TIPS THERE so ima a busy girl  :lol:

Ok back on.

I read your other post and you are right that is wrong. I respect your principles to not download and I also respect the fact that you have taken the time to at least consider the other side. Most that come here, as you have probably noticed, dont even bother to try and understand. They also have never bothered to answer the question either. Actually they come back with all this about the meshes being theirs. I will agree that they made the meshes and the meshes are theirs, right up to the point they put them online specifically for the sims 2. That is the point that they no longer become theirs and actually become Maxis. As I said there is no gray area here. It is plan and simple English and appears on every site.
I also respect a person's right to earn money. The more the better. But this is the only time that a company has allowed so many, to make so much off from copyright material. I also agree that EA allows them to and I dont have a problem with that either. The problem comes in when they start yelling that we are stealing. We have nothing here of theirs. Everything on this site belongs to Maxis/EA. We dont use their bandwidth at all. Nobody is hot linking to their files. They should not have a problem with us sharing what belongs to Maxis/EA.

i dont think anyone could argue with that  :wink: but it seems like everyone has similar points so why do we have to keep explaining ourself?

There's actually not a thing that I can say to refute this, and it's a very good point.  I suppose the only thing a creator could do if they felt strongly enough would be to do what the girl from retailsims.com did and pull all of her stuff.  Which I hated to see that happen, but that's her decision and I can't argue with it.

The whole thing almost makes me wish EA would take a stance, but I really do understand why they can't/won't.

In Soviet Russia, dead horse beats you!

Oh, and for the record, thanks for those who kept this thread mostly nice and also took the time to engage in civilized discussion :-)  I've very much enjoyed the time I've spent here.

Lets leave my mother out of this debate, thanks.

its funny how the girl at retail sims closed the sites yet left all the google adsense right open so she can still get a few clicks and make a few extra cents...

As a gamer I expect not to be expected to exploited by custom content when the owners of said content have specifically outlined terms and conditions of modifying said content.

You say to us the upset filesharer, that if we are upset about paysites, simply don't donate for them.  Why then not tell the upset creator, who by entering his/her content into an EA package and thereby accepting the terms of the EULA not to be upset when people start sharing their creations to simply not add them to the .package (again thereby allowing us to legally share the file)?

Very afraid to know which one is your mother.

Yes, there's a great deal that's amiss and hypocritical about Miss Changeri. But there are other posts to discuss her, we're clogging this one up with all sorts of parallel discussion, you and I..

Check two or three posts up ;-)

Aww, I missed all the fun debating. :'[

Oh well. I can never get my thoughts out properly in a debate situation anyway.

But avic, you seem like a good person. A welcomed change from the likes of Vulzard.

Ahh ok well it's hard to keep track with the record number of posting and my slow typing...



I am not EA but I think your response right here, actually has alot to do with this question



Sims in many ways is built upon custom content and I think EA knows that, and it makes it an easier choice to not take a stance either way on what is happening.  I personally know a ton of people who would never have even bought pets, except that it saves them the extreme aggrevation of having to worry about future custom content not working properly in their game.

I think they are afraid of making a  stance that is going to cause many a "Retail Sims" reaction as it could potientially hurt them.

Thanks :-)  I've seen Vulzard (vulture and buzzard?) mentioned a couple of times.  I get the feeling if I want drama I should take a gander at their posts :lol:

5 Stars.  Seriously, the Sims franchise gets a LOT of extra mileage from custom content creators and I'm sure they've gotten sales from people who wouldn't play if they couldn't download content.  Conversely, they're kind of in a rock and a hard place if they take a hardline stance either way.  If they side with the creators, they'll piss off a lot of non-creators.  If, on the other hand, they side with sites like PMBD then they're liable to spark a creator strike.  Certainly a huge fallout.   Not an enviable position for them.

It's Vulture and Lizard.  Good guess though.

Close: Vulture and Lizard. Apparently the same angry person under two different names.
And yes, gander away.  :o

As a gamer, and a paying customer. This is strictly pay sites I am talking about.

I expect the content I buy to look the exact same in my game as it does on the site I bought from.

I expect that when I pay a site for the 3rd time that they will make an attempt at giving me a decent update or two for my 3rd sub.

I expect that if I have a problem with something and email them, I will receive a reply without the attitude and one that is properly directed to a paying customer.

I expect that my personal information remain between me and the seller and not distrubited to any joe blow they feel like giving to.

I expect that if their site has a zillions viruses that will force me to reformat and reinstall windows they will notify me by email of the problem.

I expect that if their site goes down for a week that my sub be credited appropiately for the time lost.

I expect that the files that are emailed to me actually be working files and not corrupted rar's.

Everyone of these of these things I put here because of personal situations concerning a paysite. And each one of these puts into question the very ethics that they keep screaming we should have but apparently feel no need to have themselves.

:lol:  I saw some of Lizard's posts.  I couldn't make myself read many of them.  Somehow I think self-flagellation would be more pleasant than trying to get through his (her?) butchering of the language.  :shiver:

I'll agree with you 100% on each and every point.  I suppose I've been lucky in that I've never really encountered any of the above issues, but that's not to say that I don't believe you.  I just think I've been lucky.  Speaking of the whole information being given out to every Tom, Dick, and Harry - does anyone have a list of who all's info was posted?  I saw Rose's little "If you weren't doing blah, blah, blah, you have nothing to worry about", but I'm sure y'all all understand why that statement doesn't make me feel any more comfortable.

OT again, Rose's stance of 'If you're not a filesharer, you have nothing to worry about' counts for nothing, she redistributed personal details of people who she SUSPECTED, without any real proof, of filesharing...

Okay. I'll stop with the OT. I'll really, really try to. >.>

Also her "I hope that only a thief is interested in protecting a thief" comment in her guestbook.  Or however she said it in her admittedly adorable broken English.

Too bad you cannot get refunds for pay items, right?

:lol: This poor thread has been off topic, on topic more times than I can keep up with, so no worries :-)

But yeah - that was EXACTLY my point.  I think my sarcasm just didn't make it across, ya know?  But yes, I'd feel much more comforted if someone knew who'd been named.  As it happens, I donated to her less than a couple of weeks ago at the recommendation of a friend, so yeah - I'm a smidge irked right now (and that's understatement ;-) )

God forbid that a non-thief should worry about their personal info being shared.  And on that note, let's wash one hand with what the other's getting.  IF one says that it's not right to be file-sharing (note that I said if ;-) since we've been around that particular block a time or three tonight ;-) ) that still doesn't make it right for her to be disseminating private, sensitive information to god knows who.

Oh, okay...*goofy grin* So tired. Going to bed now. Glad to make your acquaintance though, Avic, nice to find someone open-minded out there. :)

I'm surprised that the word 'McCarthyism' hasn't been used yet. Because that is exactly what that type of attitude is (minus the whole 'loss of job and ruined their life' deal).

Before any of you young'uns ask: McCarthyism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccarthyism) (read the second paragraph and replace 'communist' with 'file-sharer').

:lol:  I'm not old enough to have lived through it, but I'm well-familiar with the term and the history.  Definitely a black mark on American history.  And yeah, I'd say it's an accurate comparison.

If you donated within the last couple of weeks you can probably be assured your info was compared with others info. They think the more subs people have the more likely they are to be file sharer. The only way to know how many subs a person has is to share the info of all.

Oh yea, I wanted to say that yes this thread is all over the place which is really quite sad because it would have been a nice thread for people coming here trying to decide if they agreed or disagreed with us.

Good point (re: whether your info's gone all over the place).  Good grief.

As for the thread, I don't mind, personally.  I feel as though I've actually gotten to know a couple of faces in here :-)  But I also see where you're coming from, and that (getting input from various sides) was why I started the thread.  I'd have no issue if the powers that be wanted to split the thread so that there's an on-topic thread.  Somewhat nicely, we have managed to come back to various aspects of the issue and the thread has yet to erupt in flames :-) :knock on wood:  

Speaking of erupt in flames, I'm bouncing back and forth between here and my sims game, and I just had my sim set himself on fire with... CREPES SUZETTE.  No joke.  First time I've seen that.  I seriously didn't plan it, either, but it's kinda wild.

Edit:  The sim did NOT make it.  He burned to a crisp right as the fire truck pulled up.  And no, "child" aged sims can't plead, and it's 45 sim minutes 'til the wife gets home from work.  Uh, yeah.  Thank god there's an heir  :shock:

Awww, sorry about your crispy Sim, Avic. Did your Sim child get taken away by the social worker? I remember one time that I had extraordinarily bad luck when I had an adult Sim looking after his wife's two kids while she was at work and he had a satellite fall on him! The Social Worker, caring naught for the tragic wailings of the children, snatched them away before the mother could return home from work.  :evil:

I will never look at crepes suzette the same way again, or baked alaska for that matter

Is it weird if I get hungry when they cook? Am I the only one?

Ouch, Denimjo - it wasn't quite that bad.  The otherwise useless nanny was there.  

And Coliss, nope.  Depending on what I have them cook, I get a little hungry, too.  I actually looked up a recipe for Lobster Thermidor.  As I recall, it seemed a bit beyond my cooking skills and a bit more trouble than it's worth, too LOL

Is it weird when I'm hungry and I cook and lose my hunger?  :lol:

I actually made lobster thermidor on Sunday! :D Lidl was selling frozen lobsters, and I'd never had lobster before...Lobster = yum, Lobster thermidor = Tricky and time-consuming...

Me too! I used the recipe in the little recipe booklet they gave me when I bought the lobster, it was a pain, especially as I'm not much of a cook, but it was very tasty. I still have one lobster in the freezer, but I think I'll try something less challenging with it.

Yey, we're Lidl twins!! :D

Okay, y'all MUST share.  How hard was it, scale of one to ten?  Just as an FYI, I can cook a turkey, and I make a mean pot-roast and an even better brisket.  So I'm not exactly a slouch in the kitchen, though not gourmet cook level either.

And how good was it?  Worth the effort in your opinion?  Enquiring (and salivating) minds want to know (what's for dinner) ;-)

Scale of one to ten, I'd say about a 7, maybe 8 depending on how patient you are. The trickiest part is the sauce, which is the time-consuming part, it's got to be made really slowly, over a low heat, with all reducing and so on, it's a very gentle sort of cooking it...the rest of it is pretty straightforward, as long as you keep an eye on it.

And it really was delicious, well worth the effort, lobster is lovely, but the one I had was pretty small, I felt the thermidoring of it bulked it out somewhat...:D

Thanks :-)
:plans a trip to the seafood department:

Yup, I'd say a 7 too, though I imagine it gets easier with practice. And it was yummy.

The lobster was pretty small, especially compared to the ones I've seen served in restaurants, but I'm not complaining, not for only £5.

Ahhhh, you jerks who talk about food. I'm at school right now and have, unfortunately, forgotten all of my money. So I'm starving and here you all are talking about lobster thermidor. D:

Why, cruel world? :(

Awww, thanks :-)  And really, that is the point of debate.  To allow yourself to hear the issues.  Not to necessarily change your mind, but to at least hear where each side is coming from.  And I do think this thread did a good job of that.  It certainly taught me a thing or two.

I'm working backstage behind the school musical. In college. Can't go get food until around 9pm tonight, and it's 6 and I'm STARVED, havn't eaten since maybe 1pm?

I'd serve dinner if I could do it through a cable modem :-)

So, does this mean your screen-name will now be Long Jane Sliver? Sorry, couldn't resist...