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Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 April 18, 17:38:59 http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=43919
Enayla makes nice free skins, completely drawn by hand (with a tablet). Look here for her stuff: http://www.insimenator.net/forumdisplay.php?f=348 2 for u (http://2-f0r-u.de/startsims2.htm) extracts one of her skins, (which made it horribly pixelated and fudged up) then pasted some other face over it, and is SELLING it as part of a donation item. No credit, no asking for permission, no nothing. Even the name of the creator has been changed to something else. Enayla writes to them to have them remove the skin from the donation pack, no reaction whatsoever. And the funniest thing, their own TOS: Quote "May i put your stuff on my own page? For the textures it's forbidden. Takes a lot of time to make this, and you don't wonna be a thief, we think." " May I copy or recolor your textures or any part of it? (pants, skirts, lips, eyes... ) No, we don't like this. Looks like stealing." It's gotta burn. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 18, 17:44:56 WHAT!?
:twisted: Well they are getting an angry email from me. Where on the site are the skins? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Rabbit on 2007 April 18, 17:48:04 I was just reading this over at Insim and I'm apalled. They want paying for a skin they didn't make, give no credit no Enayla and butchered the skin? Selling somebody elses stuff is not cool. They must be destroyed.:evil:
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 18, 17:56:35 Am reading it at the InSim now - thanks Wren!
Link (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=43919l)for those who want it Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Tchannie on 2007 April 18, 17:58:16 I never use Enayla skins because I prefer Allan's, but that poor girl! She doesn't deserve this! Nobody deserves theft.
And 2FU also stole a Glance face, apparently. More theft! Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Electricstatic on 2007 April 18, 17:59:10 That's ridiculous of them, considering Enayla is very well known in the Sims 2 community. How they thought they'd get away with this, I don't know.
Here's hoping no one actually paid for the donation set and they remove it and issue a formal apology to Enayla soon. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 18, 17:59:44 She's had this before.
Some twat at MTS2 uploaded some skins of hers merged with maxis skins =/ it was terribly obvious. No idea why the mods approved them. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 April 18, 18:02:47 However, Enayla seems to have used parts of Ren's skintones as well.
http://www.modthesims2.com/member/showthread.php?p=1490176#post1490176 Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: dr.philthy on 2007 April 18, 18:29:09 Deleted because I have thought better of the things I said in this thread
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Quorneater on 2007 April 18, 18:32:18 But was that a correct suspicion on Ren's part? If so, all I can say is what goes around comes around.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: dr.philthy on 2007 April 18, 18:45:13 deleted
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 April 18, 19:07:33 I have no idea. Maybe they used the same reference. Those artsy people.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: dorquemada on 2007 April 18, 19:07:51 So Enayla is Linda Bergkvist. Cor, you never know where you get educated. 8)
Those skins indeed look v. much alike; I'd really wish it was some misunderstanding though, cause I like Enayla's undramatic attitude. Would be a pity if she's one of them 'borrowers'. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Lourdes on 2007 April 18, 19:23:14 Quote from: "dorquemada" So Enayla is Linda Bergkvist. Damn I thought the person that said it originally was kidding. I love her art. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: obscurity on 2007 April 18, 19:34:32 I've used both and I don't like ren's skins, the face masks nor the overly muscular shading. However I love enayla's and personally I've never noticed a similarity.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 April 18, 19:36:15 Well, if they are indeed similair, they might have painted from the same source picture. I think they both handdraw.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Xeon_Black on 2007 April 18, 19:53:59 I've compared both Ren's and Enayla's texture before, and I've noticed there are similiarities, though subtle. The overall torso for Enayla's and Ren's textures are different, but the arms and legs section are quite the same. Perhaps Enayla used Ren's textures merely as a base/guide for accuracy since if I'm not mistaken, 3d texturing is still something new for her. Or maybe the similiarities were just all some weird conincidence. Who knows :?
What 2-for-u did was really low. There's nothing worse than profitting from someone's creation and going against his/her wishes. And I thought 2-for-u isn't that bad. Yeah I know, they do have donation sets, but they do make interesting meshes for free. Now it makes me wonder if their meshes are ripped off from some other creators too :shock: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Doursim on 2007 April 18, 20:36:00 Just FYI you can't get to the donation pack in question (the october 2006) At least, I can't. It takes me to a "you agree" page then cycles back to the donation page list.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: rickets on 2007 April 18, 21:16:11 My guess is that both Ren and Enayla use Poser to "create" their textures. The knees and collarbone are very, very Poser like.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Lourdes on 2007 April 18, 22:19:17 Quote from: "Doursim" Just FYI you can't get to the donation pack in question (the october 2006) At least, I can't. It takes me to a "you agree" page then cycles back to the donation page list. I had that happen and I just clicked on the October 2006 again and it worked. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Pescado on 2007 April 18, 22:35:23 Skins all look the same to me anyway.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: redisenchanted on 2007 April 18, 23:15:57 Enayla's been painting for years, She doesn't need to steal textures. :roll:
I've used both and they are not the same IMO. They may have used the same source photo though. According to Hysterical Paroxysm, Ren used the photos here: http://www.3d.sk/ I think Ren was mistaken. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: rickets on 2007 April 18, 23:30:44 Much of Enalya's painted art comes from Poser renders. People call her on it, she denies and disappears for a while. It's a pattern.
I think lots of her stuff is beautiful but it gets ridiculous when she does the whole "I don't own Poser" dance and then doesn't bother to change the face of her source model. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: redisenchanted on 2007 April 18, 23:55:16 :shock:
Well, I hope you're wrong, but I have no way of knowing about Poser stuff. In any case, I don't think Enayla lifted Ren's textures, I do believe 2-for-U lifted Enayla's though. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: DiSparrow on 2007 April 19, 00:50:58 I use both Enayla and Ren skins... they are very similar, but if you look at any of Enayla's paintings you can actually see she is just making us sim skin versions of her paintings. Paintings she has been doing for years :rolls:
The 2 artists may have similar skins... but as some one that uses only those two brands of skin they look very different to me. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Tetsuo on 2007 April 19, 01:30:16 I didn't know about Rensims-Enaylas accusations, but in my thoughts, Enaylas very first skin sets posted at MTS2 were pretty much based in Louis. The colarbone is exactly the same.
I learnt to love and admire Enaylas digital art back my PSP times, and I was very surprised when I compared hers and Louis body skins. I also think she used Simssis, the Glam Sims guy, eyebrows or eyebags shadows posted along a Sim at MTS2, as a base for hers. I don't think this is a sin though, however, she should have asked permission and posted the proper credits. Funny, when you think she came from the digital art community were they are way too touchy concerning intelectual property... Some creators should remind that some players can open a suspect file in a graphics program make layers and compare them easily ;) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Pescado on 2007 April 19, 02:30:15 Who cares who ripped off who, really? I don't see why artistry always seems to end up as a faffy masturbatorium. Who really cares? In the end, it's about as relevant to me as central Asian rainfall patterns.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Garnet on 2007 April 19, 02:40:28 Agreed. They're pretty skins and look good in my game, which I play for my own entertainment. I really don't give a damn where they came from.
But then, that's why I love downloading from the booty so much, too; it's just STUFF. Just a bunch of pixels, and it amuses the hell out of me to see "creators" froth at the mouth over it. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Xeon_Black on 2007 April 19, 02:40:32 Quote from: "rickets" Much of Enalya's painted art comes from Poser renders. People call her on it, she denies and disappears for a while. It's a pattern. I think lots of her stuff is beautiful but it gets ridiculous when she does the whole "I don't own Poser" dance and then doesn't bother to change the face of her source model. What do you mean when you mentioned her art comes from Poser renders? Is it as in, her digital paintings were painted-on Poser pictures? That it wasn't completely hand-drawn from scratch at all? :shock: I've always admired her skill on how she could achieve almost photo-realistic art from scratch, and it'd be a hard blow for me to find out she relied on Poser instead :? Also, where did the issue arise? Was it in CGTalk? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Zii on 2007 April 19, 03:06:16 I've never seen a Poser render that hasn't come out looking terribly fake and stiff, so if Enayla's painting over them then she at least needs to be commended for being able to make it look more believable :lol:
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: rickets on 2007 April 19, 03:13:25 Quote Xeon_Black : What do you mean when you mentioned her art comes from Poser renders? Is it as in, her digital paintings were painted-on Poser pictures? She overpaints which is a strange word that digital artists use when they paint over the top of a source image. She has been accused of painting on top of Poser images, photos and pretty much everything you can think to paint over. It's all played out a couple times on gfxartist and her guestbook on cgsociety. When I saw that someone had lifted her skins it actually made me laugh. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: flyingpigeon on 2007 April 19, 03:54:03 Well...
I know for a fact that Enayla uses parts from Louis's skins very subtly, but still. Its mainly the elbows and the knees. As for her painting over poser... uhm... no. I'm pretty sure that she doesn't anyway. Could anybody link to where she was called out for doing this? And Andymy, a fairly well-known member of S2C, did this... http://forums.sims2community.com/member.php?u=149050 Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Xeon_Black on 2007 April 19, 04:06:04 Quote from: "rickets" She overpaints which is a strange word that digital artists use when they paint over the top of a source image. She has been accused of painting on top of Poser images, photos and pretty much everything you can think to paint over. It's all played out a couple times on gfxartist and her guestbook on cgsociety. When I saw that someone had lifted her skins it actually made me laugh. It's hard to believe if it really was so. I must admit some of her art does look a tad "Poser"-ish, like Songs Under the Apple Tree, Porcelain, Autumn Whisperlings, and especially http://enayla.cgsociety.org/gallery/378248/. Also, I just happen to have found a link that discusses her technique. Utterly... speechless now. I think I'm convinced... this post nailed it for me --> http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1286070&postcount=41 I still admire her for being able to pass her art off as genuine though. If she really did do paint-overs, I doubt she did it for all her art since there are others that look genuine paintings. If anyone's interested, the thread that discussed her art technique is here --> http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68448 As an aspiring artist, I'm a little disappointed in her since I've always admired her skill. But ah well, we always learn something new in life. Sorry for going off-topic. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 April 19, 04:27:25 She paints them herself.
Otherwise people would have said something a long time ago, and her (very popular) art probably wouldn't be available anymore, without people yelling about stolen textures and shit. Things like that just don't stay hidden in an artist community :P Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 19, 04:53:43 Wow, I am amazed at how people cannot resist tearing others down--especially if they are the least bit talented. You know, some people are far more talented than me in some areas, and I am far more talented than they are in other areas. I am in awe of their talents, but to tear them down? Sheesh. I've seen it over and over. It makes one sick.
Linda herself has said, "When I work, I sometimes reference from photography – sometimes, not. When I was younger, this was regularly fashion photography (and quite heavily, at that! We all learn from our mistakes though, huh?) but I now take my own pictures and stick only loosely to them." Guess what? Many digital artist do this! I know. I am around them constantly. I know someone who is an artist for Marvel comics. He got started by first copying other illustrations of Spiderman when he was younger. Eventually, he got good enough to draw on his own and put his own personal spin on things. Guess what else? In the Renaissance period, do you know how artists learned? By directly copying the masters' paintings. slickgreekgeo is a very jealous bitter person who often tries to defame others to make himself feel better. You notice he is banned from concept art?! Why are his post more valid than all the ones from people who know her work better? And using a picture of a horse to help draw a saddle, etc. is hardly a crime. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: mando on 2007 April 19, 05:08:23 It doesn't surprise me at all that people who make sim skintones use an existant photo as a reference (or paint over it digitally), it's actually a pretty standard method for texture creation (I do it myself from time to time).
No matter how fantastic an artist you may be, it's pretty difficult to get your textures seamless and matched up by just eyeballing them. Much easier to take body front and body back from a photo (such as the 3Dsk images), set up the alignment and then paint over top of it. The artistry in this case, anyway, is in how you paint the texture over top and will likely only bear a slight resemblence to the original photos you used. It still requires some skill to get the texture looking okay, no matter how many "corners" you supposedly cut. Frankly I think the only part that's a lie is someone saying that they can do this without using any base reference at all. Sorry, I don't care how hot you are at this, but no way. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: dr.philthy on 2007 April 19, 05:10:11 deleted
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: missangelica on 2007 April 19, 05:19:26 They all "steal" from each other.. even HP's great new skins she admitted to using some of Louis' as a base. This is a problem many artists (including in the "real" art world) are faced with including the hypocrisy of their own actions. I guess to many it would matter the extent. Where the line is drawn from inspired to derivative to plain out copying is an extremely hazy one.
--- ETA: I'm an artist of many medias and that would include: painting, computer based graphics/website design and tablet work drawing.. So unfortunately I'm all too aware of the issue. :/ Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 19, 05:24:50 You bring up good points as well, dr.philthy. However, one of the things she asks is that her work not be put on a paysite, and that is exactly what they did. In addition, they didn't even try to make it their own. It is her skintone just lightened and pixely. Those are the problems with what they did. They didn't even alter it enough to make it their own. So they take someone elses free skintone, claim it as theirs and charge for it.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: missangelica on 2007 April 19, 05:31:31 PirateOfMashedPotatoes: I think what some are arguing is that it isn't *hers* enough that she can say what can or cannot be done to it.
ETA: Feel free to correct me if no one thinks that. I know you will. ;p Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Xeon_Black on 2007 April 19, 05:35:25 Quote from: "PirateOfMashedPotatoes" Linda herself has said, "When I work, I sometimes reference from photography – sometimes, not. When I was younger, this was regularly fashion photography (and quite heavily, at that! We all learn from our mistakes though, huh?) but I now take my own pictures and stick only loosely to them." Guess what? Many digital artist do this! I know. I am around them constantly. I know someone who is an artist for Marvel comics. He got started by first copying other illustrations of Spiderman when he was younger. Eventually, he got good enough to draw on his own and put his own personal spin on things. Guess what else? In the Renaissance period, do you know how artist learned? By directly copying the masters' paintings. Of course artists will need to refer real photos for reference. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, it's encouraged. But tracing over a photo, instead of just using it as a referral, and not mentioning either, is what disturbed me, especially when it gets released to the public, not for personal practice. It's like me taking various sim skintones from Loius, Jirka, Rensim's etc then slapping them up together and upload it to all, claiming it's my original skintone, without properly crediting the original owners. And, I can even get away with it, because I did it so well, that it really looked different from theirs, that is until you start scruntinizing it in depth. I'm cool with photomanupilation. In fact, I like to see a mergence between hand-drawn painting and photos, but acting as if the whole thing was hand-drawn by an artist is just misleading. Now, I'm not all out against Linda, because I still admire her end-results, and her eye for colours are exceptionally good. But I just can't help feeling a little disappointed since she had always been a role-model to me, and I earnestly thought she did everything from scratch. I'm not too concerned with her other works, but I'm more affected by the origins of her Nelicquele since the real photo matches up line-for-line in her art. I guess it's just a little personal thing between her technique and my principle in art. I'll still say Linda's work is breath-taking, but it doesn't inspire awe in me anymore. Edit to add: While I may find Linda's technique somewhat shady and hypocritical, I agree whole heartedly with dr.philthy on 2-for-u's unethical action. Selling another's work when it was meant to be free in the first place is just plainly wrong. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 19, 05:46:15 Xeon_Black--You do realize that the painting that was shown was done 5 years ago, right?
I made a really big mistake some years back. Did something I would never dream of doing now. It doesn't make me a forever bad person though. She said she has learned from mistakes. Hey, as the saying goes, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, or something like that. I know that I could have all the photos in the world and I could not create something like she does. Funny thing, I have no personal relationship with Linda, but I just got tired of the same old person trying to tar and feather her out of his own inadequacies and jealousies. missangelica--There really hasn't been enough proof that the skintones aren't hers. Ren's sure don't look anything like Linda's to me. Those two create the only skintones I use in my game. What's up here? I thought everybody here was anti-paysites. She gives her stuff away and gets upset about a site selling it, and no one here understands that? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Pescado on 2007 April 19, 05:49:11 Enayla may be a good artist, but she has grossly misrepresented her actual technique if she claims that they're entirely hand-drawn and is selling tutorials of this nonexistent fake technique. There's nothing wrong with creating art this way, but to sell a fictitious cover technique to obscure what REALLY happens? This is fraud.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: dr.philthy on 2007 April 19, 06:02:15 deleted
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: mando on 2007 April 19, 06:04:23 Yep, I have to agree with Pescado here. I see nothing wrong with using an overpainting technique to create textures, and I don't think that using one takes anything away from the end product. You're still handpainting the end image, and that still takes a degree of skill that many others do not have.
However, claiming that you do everything by hand, and that you aren't using any references in any way is, I think, a total lie. Maybe, she's worried that people will see it as a cheat because it seems like such an easy method (to people who don't understand it), and so, doesn't like to focus on it because she feels that it will taint her work in some way. I don't know (Frankly I think not admitting it is much more lame). Using an accepted technique in digital art and, especially, in texture creation is hardly something that needs to be hidden. Edit: Does she sell those frigging tutorials? Or do people use them for free to set themselves up for failure? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 19, 06:18:43 I won't argue that, Pescado. But there really is no concrete proof that that is what happened--proof that would hold up. I know she is doing artwork for the fantasy film The Golden Compass. Where in the world would she get photos of unreal, fantasy creatures, etc.?
I did the equalizer and levels bit on several digital artists' paintings, and I see the same thing that was being claimed as proof on Linda's. That part doesn't make sense to me. I see no concrete proof. What am I missing? lol! I guess I just like to hear both sides of a story before condemning someone. And I still stand by the fact that it is just wrong that she didn't want her free stuff sold and it is being sold. Quote However, claiming that you do everything by hand, and that you aren't using any references in any way is, She's not done this that I know of. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: mando on 2007 April 19, 06:28:50 Hey, if she's admitting to using references then I have no problem with it (I don't know that she always sites those references, though). Plus, finding pictures (or drawings or paintings or whatever) of unicorns or mythical creatures doesn't take a genius. You can also easily use pictures of existing animals (i.e. horses, lizards, insects and so on) to mimic and create fantasy ones to have photographic references.
I can believe that she may not use an overpainting techniques for her full paintings, but I would be pretty dubious of any claims of not doing it with her textures. Although, you are right, she may never have said this, but I'm hardly an expert on her discussions about her work. Perhaps the confusion simply comes from a misunderstanding of what is meant when people say that something is handpainted. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 19, 06:34:41 What I mean is, she has said multiple times that she has used photos as reference in early work. She's not lying or hiding it.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: mando on 2007 April 19, 06:40:39 Quote from: "PirateOfMashedPotatoes" What I mean is, she has said multiple times that she has used photos as reference in early work. She's not lying or hiding it. Wait, are you saying that she's claimed to only have been using photographic references in her early work, and not using them now? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 19, 06:53:31 I don't believe I said that, no. The majority of the paintings being used to hang her with are earlier paintings. She said she used photos far too often then. She's not said how much or how little they are used now.
As I said, I like to hear both sides before stringing someone up. I have seen a lot of people search and search trying to make people see something that may or may not be there. You can be talked into seeing all kinds of things if you are told it's there long enough. Since I cannot know 100% without a shadow of a doubt what Linda does or does not do, I'm not ready to hang her just yet. :) One thing I do know, I could not create anything even remotely like her work if my life depended on it, and I create art on the computer for a living. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: mando on 2007 April 19, 07:06:18 Absolutely, she is a very skilled artist, there's no doubt about that. My only issue was with claims that everything she was making was created entirely from scratch or without references. If she admits to using references, no matter how she's using them, then I have no problem with it. Again, I think this might only be a misunderstanding over the term "handpainted".
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Xeon_Black on 2007 April 19, 07:20:47 PirateOfMashedPotatoes : Yes, I do realise Nelicquele is one of her older art, but if she did steer away from copying, why did she allow prints of Nelicquele to be sold? She would've at least not included it in the Ballistic Masters posters. And it was what she stated about how Nelicquele came about saddened me:
Quote I started out on a dark brown canvas and doodled around until she started to pop out - at first the angle of the face and her expression, and then the shoulders, hip, and skirts. Here's the link to it -> http://www.ballisticpublishing.com/articles/linda_bergkvist/index.php No credit whatsoever to the photo she referred to. And yes, Pescado is right about the tutorials. Should her technique be proven false, then it's not right selling tutorials that aren't real, profitting from many novice artists who aspire to be like her. On the other hand, I will not say her tutorials are completely useless, they do have some value in them, but it's still not fair and inaccurate. Mando: I would also add "photo reference" as a misunderstood term. To me, photo reference is when one refers to a photo when drawing, use it as a guide, but not tracing over. I'm pretty sure others have their own definition of what that term is, and one of them is "to use a photo as reference which includes tracing". In the end, I'm not too sure what the term "photo reference" means anymore :? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 19, 07:35:19 Hmm, yes, I suppose it is all subjective then. With my copy of Corel Painter, I got a set of video tutorials done by well- known digital artists. They do talk about the great features of the tracing abilites in Painter, so I guess not everyone sees it as bad. lol!
As also stated in the thread at Concept Art, her tutorials are not frauds. If you have a talent for painting, you can follow them and achieve great results with practice. Thing is, I may be playing devil's advocate here, but it is as I said before, I have yet to see proof that Linda has done anything wrong, immoral, or illegal. The equalize trick is just that--a trick. It isn't showing anything. People are caught up in the hype and seeing what they are told. Plus they are not doing this on full-size artwork, but artwork that is saved for web. If someone can come forward with inconclusive evidence, then I will see for myself. I was never much of a good little sheep to just follow a mob though. :) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 19, 08:11:23 Enayla's early works to look very similar to Ren's, her laters have some small similarities. I really doubt she uses poser, poser skins do not suit sims at all - didn't Exnem use poser skins? If you ask me they looked bad. And this isn't really about bashing a creator is it...its about 2-for-u selling her skins
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Lorelei on 2007 April 19, 08:13:41 As an occasional digital and traditional illustrator / artist, I can vouch that it is very easy to paint over photo references. VERY.
This is not discouraged when you are new and learning the software and techniques. It is GREATLY discouraged when you begin to sell your work. She's revoked her newbie status, and that's been old news for many years now. DO I think she lacks talent? Far from it. DO I think she uses photo references? Yes. I think the issue isn't with using references, but using a piece with a photo reference as a base as a tutorial demonstrating how she supposedly draws everything from scratch. Sloppy, sloppy. Also, if you are worried about others ganking your work, keep them in your portfolio, don't put the whole, un-altered and un-watermarked images online to be downloaded and messed about with. Sucks, but it is a fact of life. Holding back part of the original image helps prove provenance. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: mando on 2007 April 19, 08:25:31 I don't know what reference she used to create the painting "Nelicquele", so the best I could accuse her of is not being entirely transparent about the methods to create the piece. Her write-up suffers from being a bit flighty, silly and dramatic, but its function is as a description as opposed to being a technical how-to of how she created the image. It doesn't sound as good if you say, "Well, I was just starting out at the time, and while I was pretty good at handling fabrics and faces, I couldn't paint trees for shit, and the proportions on the body were messed up, so I had to go and find references to help me out and use as base images". Well, I might write that, but well, you know... :).
Digital artists use a lot of tricks (again, myself included) to get things done so that they look correct and are finished quickly. It's not a crime, perhaps a little disingenuous, but not evil. Yes, she should reference images she uses especially in work she is selling as original artwork for sale, but the base of the work is done on her back and through her efforts. Quote I'm pretty sure others have their own definition of what that term is, and one of them is "to use a photo as reference which includes tracing". In the end, I'm not too sure what the term "photo reference" means anymore :? "Tracing over" something is not exactly what I'm talking about, but you're right it is a little convoluted and hard to understand. When I make textures I use photographs I've taken or found and frankenstein them together in order to get the image I need. If I'm "hand painting" textures, while I am not going for a highly realistic image I still want it to be recognizable to a viewer. At which point, I will handpaint over the original photograph as a guide because (and this is the only reason for me) it saves me wicked loads of time. The end result is not a duplicate image to the original photo in anyway(the original image is entirely painted over), but still references what I was trying to make. Keep in mind, however, that I am making textures and not fancy art pieces to hang on your wall. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Xeon_Black on 2007 April 19, 09:47:33 Quote from: "mando" I don't know what reference she used to create the painting "Nelicquele", so the best I could accuse her of is not being entirely transparent about the methods to create the piece. Her write-up suffers from being a bit flighty, silly and dramatic, but its function is as a description as opposed to being a technical how-to of how she created the image. It doesn't sound as good if you say, "Well, I was just starting out at the time, and while I was pretty good at handling fabrics and faces, I couldn't paint trees for shit, and the proportions on the body were messed up, so I had to go and find references to help me out and use as base images". Well, I might write that, but well, you know... :). :lol: rofl, no, I certainly don't expect her to come up with something like that, but I would've expected her to at least mention she used a reference for that pose or something like that, and it was traced from a photo that doesn't belong to her. I posted the link in my earlier post, here's the pic again --> http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1286070&postcount=41 I don't find a problem with the part comparing Linda's horse plate armour with a real picture though. As I mentioned before, I don't see anything wrong with using photos as references, and it doesn't look traced nor is the whole thing 100% copied from the photo. And no, cheating in art isn't evil nor a crime, almost every artists do it, but it's another thing to hear one artist not applying to his/her own principles. Well, I'm not calling for a "witch hunt" nor looking for a fight, just merely expressing my opinion on this new light shed on Linda. She may not use this "cheating" technique anymore, and I still love to look at her art, and still say they're beautiful, but part of me will feel a little disappointed over what she had done. I apologize for derailing the thread. For the moment there I was treating this thread as an art thread. CaptainJojoba is right, the main issue here is about 2-for-u wrongfully selling Linda's sim skintones. I don't know what can be done about it, other than everyone bombing the site-owners's email/guestbook with protests. :!: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: ghengisjohn on 2007 April 19, 09:51:37 Ah, just finished reading all of this and all I can really think of that's relevant is: screw you, 2-for-U. And get a less crappy name.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: silver on 2007 April 19, 10:55:15 (applauds ghengisjohn)
Short, sweet, and to the point! ^^^ Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 19, 13:13:21 Hmmm... Which ones are Enaylas skins? Are those the slightly shiny fantasy ones, cuz... I didn't like those very much. In fact, I keep going back to my Helaene skins, even though I tried out several "famous" skins... (I only use default replacements, I hate how custom skins will dominate genetics...)
Anyhoo. I'm very disappointed in 2-f0r-u. I actually love a lot of their stuff. Not skins or hair (the one with three braids in a ponytail spells out major suckage) but they have some very nice outfits. I was even considering donating for one of their packs for the booty if it was wanted. Now not so much. Mostly because that even though I share with the booty I prefer to donate to someone I actually can sorta like. I know, I have weird and twisted feelings on this. I don't care how Enayla's ethics are - it's 2-f0r-us ethics that count in this instant. Lowering oneself to someone else's standards isn't really a valid excuse. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 April 19, 14:21:49 I don't really see a problem if we have no proof whatsoever. What I see is 2 for u definately stealing her skintone.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: redisenchanted on 2007 April 19, 14:34:03 Hmmmm.
I don't know if she uses photos or not in her work. That's really not something I would be capable of judging. Seems to me though, that if what she did was easy, there would be lots of people doing it. Her work wouldn't stand out as unique. It is flat out spectacular and unlike anything I've seen elsewhere. Seems like the same person keeps bringing it up, like it's a personal crusade for him. That doesn't make it false, but clearly he has some kind of motive. I like Enayla/Linda, a lot of other people do too, so people take it personally when she is criticized. Any similiarities between her sims 2 skins and Ren/Louis are quite speculative and probably result from using the same source photo. Louis used a commonly used artist reference photo. I really doubt that Enayla would use a copy (Ren's) when she had access to the original photo. None of the above has any bearing on the fact that 2-for-you took her free skin, lightened it a bit causing pixelation and poorer quality, and is charging money for it. That is what this forum is about anyway. The other stuff is irrelevant. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: rickets on 2007 April 19, 15:19:18 For me I think it's laughable that she is complaining about someone stealing and selling her materials when she is using other photographer's copyrighted material to manufacture her work and earn a buck.
I decided to post one of the examples that Xeon_Black was using since there are so many links in play. (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/autumnvesper/comp.jpg) This was done in 2002 and she never acknowledged using a photo as a base. What she said was that when she first started doing art she used photo references. But this is the description of the piece that exists on Ballistic Publishing: " I started out on a dark brown canvas and doodled around until she started to pop out - at first the angle of the face and her expression, and then the shoulders, hip, and skirts." Hypocrisy is an interesting thing. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 19, 15:32:51 That isn't proof that the sim skintones she makes are based on others, or copied from others.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: dr.philthy on 2007 April 19, 16:24:23 deleted
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Lilyroseisapirate on 2007 April 19, 17:34:34 me dont care we she gets or steals from, me wants skins from enayla! lol, seriously i dont know how they work their art, like pescado says it all looks the same to me, but i think her skins are pretty. and if she is stealing they are still very pretty skins! :lol:
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Quinctia on 2007 April 19, 17:57:50 Well it doesn't take away from prettiness. What people are saying is that it's a little hypocritical to copy a photo for art that you sell and then complain when people copy a picture of yours to sell.
Although I think the skin-stealing is a bit more direct theft. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: redisenchanted on 2007 April 19, 18:02:49 I'm unsure about her non-sim art. The evidence is mounting somewhat, so I have to consider it. The bench picture is pretty clear, but it is 5 years old. How she creates her pictures is not of much concern to me, but faking tutorials would be a bad thing. Sigh, I really hope that's wrong.
There is zero evidence she's stolen from other sims 2 creators though. I really doubt that. She wouldn't need to, she could easilly use a photo. It's kind of like the poser hair rip-offs. I just don't care if XM sims does it, but when Peggy, Rose and Raon do it for profit, it makes me mad. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Lourdes on 2007 April 19, 18:37:20 Ok so she saw a picture of a woman on a bench and created that painting of her woman on a very similar bench. The things I can see she painted over were the dress details and the bench. Both of which don't make that painting what it is nor do they demonstrate or distract from her obvious talent.
If she choses not to give out every single detail of how she created HER work thats her business. And on the original topic yes her skins were stolen thats evident. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Pineapplebrain on 2007 April 19, 18:45:30 I just don't see what the big fuss is. Maybe she painted over the original picture. Maybe she only referenced it. I don't know anything about graphic art. I do know a bit about other forms of art, though. However, I don't think what she did is all that relevant or even all that hypocritical. She took something that existed...modified it and made something completely new. 2-for-u took her skins, changed basically nothing and is now selling it.
If you look at this in a broad way...everyone samples. Nothing is original. Look at the music industry. Many of today's songs are just...recycled from previous decades. Sure, they may have gotten permission, but it still doesn't change the fact that they're "stealing", "borrowing," or "sampling." I mean, even Shakespeare didn't come up with too many original ideas. Many of his plays are redone versions of other people's plays. And he's considered a master of literature and theater. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: rickets on 2007 April 19, 18:46:00 But what about etiquette expert Ruth L. Kern? How does she feel about having her body and bench appropriated for emo fantasy art? Everyone has to think about poor Ruth! :lol:
http://www.modernetiquette.com/ Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: dr.philthy on 2007 April 19, 18:53:52 lol, Rickets!
I'm sure Ruth is very unimpressed. But her manners will prevent her from objecting too strenuously, I'm sure. ETA-I've deleted all my other posts from this thread because in retrospect I beleive they were all irrelevant to this conversation. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Tchannie on 2007 April 19, 20:13:21 Hmm...what's the proper etiquette for reacting when someone's stolen your picture...?
Not to say I don't love Linda's picture, and normally I hate art. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: silver on 2007 April 19, 21:07:08 We DO keep coming back to this, do we?
Perhaps I have been desensitized to modern creations, but many artists have used photos as a base for their art ... or been inspired by a photo ... or took a photo and embellished it in some way. Here ya go. Recognize this artist? http://webexhibits.org/colorart/marilyns.html It doesn't make Warhol a lesser artist, or a non-artist. Some think his work is art, some think it garbage. I don't recall Warhol claiming it wasn't his art, or acting the least bit ashamed about it. Perhaps someone here has? I could be wrong. In the music world? Oh, please. Rolling Stone once called The Beatles "the greatest borrowers in the world", and though a Beatlefreak myself, I acknowledge it. Sure they were! They borrowed from Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, even Elvis. Sgt. Pepper was inspired by the Beach Boys' Smile. The song Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite was taken almost word for word from an old circus poster. Lennon admitted it. But I don't recall any of them being ashamed or claiming,"Oh, we shouldn't claim this is our song!" So many artists sample music now even more blatantly that I would be writing a book if I listed them. So I won't go into that. Working off a picture, working off a riff ... it's really not uncommon in the arts. I'm surprised that anyone IS surprised. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it exists. I've been seeing a rash of free-site artist or site-owner scrutiny that concerns me. It's not the mere mention of the alleged transgression that can be problematic ... it is what it is, I guess, and it's silly to hide it ... it's that much of this scrutiny winds up evolving ... can we call it evolving? ... into speculation and a "boil that dust speck" mentality. Should not most of our venom be reserved for sites who blatantly steal free-site ideas and sell these bastardized creations? Isn't this what this board is about? Shouldn't we pick our battles and targets just a bit more carefully? Then again, I could be mistaken. Perhaps someone can enlighten me if I am. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: mohicantunes on 2007 April 19, 21:58:54 Hmm.. My first post here.
I thought this forum was about detroying paysites and the main reason Enayla is complaining is that they are selling out some skin she did, without giving any credits, and she is giving them for free. Does it really mather she gives over-painted skins for free? Or based on photos or if she does it all by her self? I actually don't believe that no one does it by it self. Everyone needs a base reference. So much talking about her techniques and hipocrisy that you tottaly forgot that the main point here is about other selling stuff that are for free. Now that is hipocrisy. ---- Post above. I agree... Most people here are picking on a fight on the wrong person. :/ Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Quinctia on 2007 April 20, 02:04:27 Quote from: "silver" Then again, I could be mistaken. Perhaps someone can enlighten me if I am. I don't think the issue is necessarily that she used a photo, more that she used a photo while claiming the picture just popped out of a brown canvas. There is nothing wrong or unartistic in what she did. The wrong comes from her lying about it, and the use of that photograph in such a way is likely copyright infringement. The difference here between her photo example and all your examples is the original artists having the integrity to basically cite their sources. Sure the pic's over five years old, but if she's still lying about it, instead of saying "I learned how to paint by going over photos and changing aspects," it's rather disingenuous. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Pescado on 2007 April 20, 03:22:59 Quote from: "mohicantunes" So much talking about her techniques and hipocrisy that you tottaly forgot that the main point here is about other selling stuff that are for free. We didn't forget the point, the point simply drifted. There's only so long you can talk about the obvious wrongness of Paysite Scum. Because honestly, you expect such shit from them. It's just expected behavior, much like how a topic about a Hamas bus bombing quickly drifts to talking about Israel: There's not much to say, you just kinda expect this sort of behavior from Hamas. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Ensign EO on 2007 April 20, 04:02:06 I don't understand why people are getting so uppity about getting off-topic. I mean, god forbid such a thing happen. :roll:
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Quinctia on 2007 April 20, 04:27:33 I think it's 'cause the topic makes them a tad uncomfortable. Oh well!
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Aquamarine on 2007 April 20, 04:33:00 Couldn't care less. Artists using others' works and pulling the "reference" card is the rule, and it's been going on since the advent of museums. No biggie. If it concerns you so much, confront her.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Pescado on 2007 April 20, 04:55:37 The big deal isn't so much that she does it, or even omits the credit. I see that as a non-issue. The real issue is that, allegedly, she sells this tutorial of how to produce these works, but this information is clearly blatantly false and utter fabrication.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 20, 05:49:47 Quote The real issue is that, allegedly, she sells this tutorial of how to produce these works, but this information is clearly blatantly false and utter fabrication. That is simply not true though. Many have used her tutorials and had great success. Her tutorials are well embraced and highly praised. Obviously, they succeeded at their intended purpose. As for those for whom it did not work, well, I guess they just don't yet have the same level of skill. Some are bitterly jealous that she was chosen to be featured in a well-known graphic arts magazine and they weren't. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: redisenchanted on 2007 April 20, 06:12:35 The allegations that Enayla is dishonest are far from being proven to me. Since I like her and she is generous with her sims creations, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.
2-for-you sucks for being a paysite and they suck even more for taking her free work, uglifying it and then selling it. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: hippiechic on 2007 April 20, 19:35:27 Does she have some other tutorials that I am unaware of because the ones that are on her site are free.
http://www.furiae.com/index.php?view=gallery Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Lourdes on 2007 April 20, 20:02:42 Quote from: "mohicantunes" Hmm.. My first post here. I thought this forum was about detroying paysites and the main reason Enayla is complaining is that they are selling out some skin she did, without giving any credits, and she is giving them for free. Does it really mather she gives over-painted skins for free? Or based on photos or if she does it all by her self? I actually don't believe that no one does it by it self. Everyone needs a base reference. So much talking about her techniques and hipocrisy that you tottaly forgot that the main point here is about other selling stuff that are for free. Now that is hipocrisy. ---- Post above. I agree... Most people here are picking on a fight on the wrong person. :/ Bah you need to read these forums more. Its perfectly normal for things to go off topic. One second we could be RA!! RA!! over a crappy pay site by the 2nd or 3rd page we are discussing women serial killers. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: keirra on 2007 April 20, 20:03:08 Is anyone else having problems getting on 2 for u? I was just there reading their guestbook (Kathy from Insim is relentless...you go girl! :lol: ) than tried to go back there and the website cannot be found. Bet that they are reading their guestbook and hitting the delete key repeatedly. Hopefully, they will also take Enayla's skins out of their donation set.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Shawnee on 2007 April 20, 21:34:05 Their site is back online now.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: keirra on 2007 April 20, 21:50:47 No idea why, but, I still can't get on there :roll: .
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 20, 22:37:38 Quote from: "keirra" No idea why, but, I still can't get on there :roll: . Its dead to me too! And I was going to post in the guestbook and send an email! O woe :( I hope Kathy and co make up for my absence :lol: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 20, 22:39:08 Down for me too, and I was just there raiding their free stuff a day or so before this thread started.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 20, 22:51:18 Hmmmmm....
well either the site has frizzled and died from the attack from the powers that be OR the site owner is back...removing the skintone, or the guestbook entries Meh hmmm... Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 20, 23:03:31 I hope the offensive material is being righted. I don't know who's who in there... as far as I gathered it was andymy claiming it as his own, right? The creator I seem to like in there is Chriko and I'm still hoping that s/he is all right.
I know NOTHING about people's personalities as I'm generally more interested in their creations. I get easily turned off if they're not-very-nice, though. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: fourohfourerror on 2007 April 21, 00:27:21 Sites working for me, they haven't removed Enayla's skintones yet, or the guestbook entries.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: RedLove on 2007 April 21, 02:17:25 Not working for me. I get the "timed out connection" message.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Skadi on 2007 April 21, 04:11:17 Works fine for me with firefox, just added my 2c to the guestbook. I fell in love with Linda's artwork back in my BG2/NWN days, and was really happy to find out she was creating for TS2. Regardless of how her art came to be, I still love it, and what's an artist without some controversy?
Cannot believe 2 for u did this, it just stupid, as if no one would pick it up. -Missy Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: rickets on 2007 April 21, 07:21:12 Now that we're vaguely back on topic I'm going to go off somewhere else entirely...
I read back over the thread because I think I missed entire pages. I had brought up Poser as a means of creating Sim bodies and I saw this response: Quote CaptainJojoba - poser skins do not suit sims at all - didn't Exnem use poser skins? I use Poser a lot to generate skins. It's great and the figure has pretty much the same shadow pattern as the Sim. I haven't seen Exnem's skins but my guess would be he doesn't know how to light a Poser figure properly so it doesn't look muddy or gray. If anyone is curious this is one that I did using Louis as a base (even though I think all that remains of the original is the feet). POSER SIM (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/autumnvesper/poserbod.jpg) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 21, 16:09:26 Rickets: how do you know all this about Enayla? I am very curious..
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 April 21, 16:48:07 Quote from: "rickets" Now that we're vaguely back on topic I'm going to go off somewhere else entirely... I read back over the thread because I think I missed entire pages. I had brought up Poser as a means of creating Sim bodies and I saw this response: Quote CaptainJojoba - poser skins do not suit sims at all - didn't Exnem use poser skins? I use Poser a lot to generate skins. It's great and the figure has pretty much the same shadow pattern as the Sim. I haven't seen Exnem's skins but my guess would be he doesn't know how to light a Poser figure properly so it doesn't look muddy or gray. If anyone is curious this is one that I did using Louis as a base (even though I think all that remains of the original is the feet). POSER SIM (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/autumnvesper/poserbod.jpg) Those are Poser tits? KEWL! Have them on a sim?? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: calalily on 2007 April 21, 17:06:21 I don't see any reason for why Enayla would lie, and personally, don't believe it. I read all the available evidence, and find it hard to believe that someone who is a teacher of photoshop has been able to fool people for years.
I don't think that someone gets wide acclaim through the internet, if all this was so easy, and just a scam - surely others would do it too. There would be comparable artists everywhere, and the name Enayla wouldn't mean anything to anyone, because it would just be another digital artist. If Enayla was trying to avoid all the discussions of her methods in an unfavourable light, why then 'disappear' as you accused her rickets before the whole thing started? As for the resemblance and matching line for line to the other picture, well, I personally don't think it was intentional, nor do I think it was painted over. The fact that it matches is just good proportions, despite the "splicing" talked about in those threads. I was looking at one of the skins I did - lilac winter, and thought to myself - well, why the hell did I think snowflakes and lilac went together? Until I looked down at my typing hands, and noticed my jammies - which are lilac with snowflakes. Does this mean I scanned them in and copied them? No. Totally at a subconscious level, I knew it would work. And I wasn't wearing those jammies the week I made that skin - so direct copying was impossible. As to her sims content - it's free - and always has been - always been given freely and often, and with a free heart. Just because you have a personal grudge against her and her art, or some obscure tutorial that she may sell doesn't make it therefore laughable that someone would take free stuff and set it up as pay shit. This is greed and stupidity at its height - and of course not unexpected from paysites - but to say its okay because maybe someone lied about something unrelated elsewhere (or at least some jealous bitter grid drawer somewhere thinks so) is just stupid. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: rickets on 2007 April 21, 17:08:16 I don't know if you're like me in that there are certain internet soap operas that you find strangely fascinating? A recurring character who always brings wank? Enayla is one of those for me.
I know a lot of the Poser/Renderosity people and it all started when Enayla entered the art scene around 2000. There's a lot of "you're using Poser and denying it" back and forth. Her early stuff is clearly Posery and a lot of people got worked up by her saying that all her stuff was hand drawn. It's gone on for years. One of my favorite things was when two Renderosity vendors made an Enayla Poser figure and there was all this talk of trademark/copyright infringement. The figure is here: http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=22589& Until recently the really good brawls had disappeared. Enayla became really profitable for any site she was attached to. People vanished from lots of forums whenever they spoke out about her methods or description of methods. It all comes down to the same defenses from her fans of "who cares what she does, she rocks" or "you're so jealous, shut up". Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Quinctia on 2007 April 21, 18:36:54 Quote from: "calalily" As for the resemblance and matching line for line to the other picture, well, I personally don't think it was intentional, nor do I think it was painted over. The fact that it matches is just good proportions, despite the "splicing" talked about in those threads. Look. The patterns on the dress...the back of the bench...the left arm and shoulder of the figure. All match up. What she supposedly drew even has the exact same folds in the cloth. I've been in a lot of art communities, and that sort of thing isn't a happy accident. It just doesn't happen. It only pops up in tracing and/or appropriating an image. And no one has said it means that everything Enayla's doing is copied, or bad, or she has no skill. She obviously does have talent, which is what kind of makes the whole thing seem worse to me. It could just be time-saving laziness on her part. But saying "oh, she's just that good" makes me wonder about your vision. And guess what? Even if she did beat the million to one odds and managed to hand copy half the picture identically into hers, that sort of direct reference copying is frowned upon in the art community. And the picture still did not pop out of the damn canvas, so she was still lying. I don't understand why someone with her amount of talent needs to be duplicitous and can't just come out and tell the truth! But she certainly was lying about that one picture, and I'm sorry you want to be in denial about it, but it's obvious. Now, I hope that paysite takes her damn skins down, because that sort of thing is just as bad. Profiting off other people's works is slimy no matter who is doing it, or whose stuff is stolen. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: calalily on 2007 April 21, 18:56:58 You missed the important part of my quote which was:
Quote I was looking at one of the skins I did - lilac winter, and thought to myself - well, why the hell did I think snowflakes and lilac went together? Until I looked down at my typing hands, and noticed my jammies - which are lilac with snowflakes. Does this mean I scanned them in and copied them? No. Totally at a subconscious level, I knew it would work. And I wasn't wearing those jammies the week I made that skin - so direct copying was impossible. And I'm sure that if one looks all over the internet it's easy to find something that looks like someone else's - there are finite ideas in the world. Can any artist assure themselves that everything they've ever drawn doesn't resemble or even match something else out there? Checked every single image on the internet have you? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: pixelated on 2007 April 21, 19:09:41 Sure, I could accept that the bench looks exactly the same. But when the folds on the skirt match up EXACTLY, too, that's just not possible trough coincidence.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: rickets on 2007 April 21, 19:31:29 Because Nouk asked I'm posting this Poserfied Sim.
I have lots of them in my game but all are made from other people's textures. I wanted to post something in response to CaptainJojoba's comment about using Poser to create Sims but didn't feel entirely comfortable posting up someone else's textures. I made this Sim last night using a Merchant Resource by Valae (http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=42568&vendor=178490) I only spent about 30 minutes on body and face so there's some seaming issues and a few other tweaks I would do before I'd say it was done but for the curious here she is: (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/autumnvesper/faces.jpg) (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p21/autumnvesper/bodmirror.jpg) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 April 21, 21:28:22 I see... thanks for posting. :) Mkaes me wonder how many artists use this kind of stuff for their skintones.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: redisenchanted on 2007 April 21, 21:33:23 I think we have to admit that the bench picture is clearly over-painting of a photo. It is however, 5 years old and I haven't seen anything else that convinces me. If what she did was easy, there would be tons of it out there.
Rickets skintone looks like a much better version of what exnem does. Also a lot like what "Donna" did. I'm sure lots of people use this kind of stuff. Very few people can shade and draw a realistic skintone. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 23, 14:34:44 Well things over at InSim are heating up. Me and my fellow members of the Animal Army have been flaming the guestbook daily, me posting links to the booty and all.
I've also emailed the webhoster now, telling them that they are hosting an illegal site. I included the EA EULA as well as a note that they are also making money with stolen goods from Enayla. The Chihuahua With No-Mercy has spoken. LULZ Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 23, 14:42:31 I swung by the GB at some time and what I saw was a very distressed person saying he was sorry and would never do it again and that there really was nothing to do but wait for Chriko to get back.
And then people just kept on flaming him. I don't really care what they did - we got that bit covered - but what yous are doing is not very mature in my opinion and it just turns my sympathy the other way, to be honest. What happened to benefit of the doubt? It's not like they can as much as update the text on the front of their homepage without everyone knowing that Chriko is back. Sheesh. And let's not forget - not everyone is infallible. People do make mistakes such as borrowing a bit too much (which Enayla herself even admitted to having done in the past) and only having one admin when they didn't expect the need for more. So they're unprofessional and noobish and bad. I get it. We all got it a long time ago. Heck, the rest of the team might not even know when Chriko is back. Just lay off already. Please. There is nothing more to be achieved at this point anyway. Well, apart from inciting people who just love a good flame and don't care against who or what and frankly - making yourself look bad. Just my two cents. :P P.S. Can yous tell that my fear of being flamed off the forum has subsided? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 23, 14:46:52 Ehrm well I'm sorry but THAT excuse is just Bullshit. *do not know about copyright* Yeah I've heard better excuses for stupidity.
Quote And AndyMy, you can't blame ingnorance for being a thief. Quote I'm sorry, Andymy, but common sense really should have told you that if you were going to use part of the content of other creators, you should've at least checked with the original artist BEFORE using it for public use. If you don't know about TOS/can't contact the artists in some way, it's better to just leave it alone and not use it outside of your own personal use... Quote Blatent ignorience is not an excuse ... it never is AndyMy! Quote I must say, I'm very glad I've never managed to be able to donate, knowing that such little attention is given to verifying content. Quote It doesn't matter if Chriko is the sole admin of the site--Andymy should have the SENSE not to steal from someone else, should have read Enayla's TOS and realised that, hey, she doesn't want her stuff redistributed, let alone STOLEN. You don't even need to be able to read a freaking TOS to understand that plagiarism is a HUGE no-no. Quote Uhm? Even if you have no idea about copyright...you should have at least this much brain to know that plagiarizing work from others is forbidden. Andymy is just another dramawhore out for some $$$. And no, I seriously do not know mercy. Paysites must be destroyed. Selfish and Stupid ones even more. I'm not kidding and there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE FOR BEING A PAYSITE. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: calalily on 2007 April 23, 14:56:32 Quote from: "MizzKitty" P.S. Can yous tell that my fear of being flamed off the forum has subsided? Yeah - it does that :lol: It's like a static electricity shock - you need to just get it over with. Although if Pescado had his way, I'm sure that it would painful to press e v e r y k e y . Quote from: "darkangel" And no, I seriously do not know mercy. Paysites must be destroyed. Selfish and Stupid ones even more. I'm not kidding and there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE FOR BEING A PAYSITE. There isn't, and I totally agree with you. But being a little bit quieter about it might have more effect than persecuting them. Lots of sites are now pulling their support of 2foru and are very angry about this - be too mean, and they'll become the underdog, and people will feel sorry for them - and do the opposite of what we want. It's not about being merciful - it's about showing through subtle means that "Look see - paysites are bad" rather than getting the screaming horde knocking on the castle gates. Screaming hordes never get sympathy. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 23, 15:04:11 Quote from: "calalily" There isn't, and I totally agree with you. But being a little bit quieter about it might have more effect than persecuting them. Lots of sites are now pulling their support of 2foru and are very angry about this - be too mean, and they'll become the underdog, and people will feel sorry for them - and do the opposite of what we want. It's not about being merciful - it's about showing through subtle means that "Look see - paysites are bad" rather than getting the screaming horde knocking on the castle gates. Screaming hordes never get sympathy. Yes this may be. Wait, you could even be right regarding "PMBD". But nobody would know about this thieving. Plus we are not lyke "PMBD" (as in we don't say oh this site has to go down because it's pay). We are saying that thieving is wrong. And they thieved off Enayla. How should people know without SCREAMING. :wink: Anybody who'd still donate to a site who thieves off free artists cannot be helped. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 23, 21:55:33 Personally, I see the merit in all of your opinions (DarkAngel, MizzKitty and Calalily).
I have no sympathy for Andymy, and I don't think he or she deserves it. Any creator who's been around long enough knows not to take someone's work and alter it without permission or credit. Even downloaders know this because this is something that has been said time and time again in this community since TS1. Therefore, unless this person's been living in a cave, he or she most likely knew this community-wide rule. Yes, it was the screaming horde who had brought attention to these thefts internationally and rightfully so. Now, it's time to take a different tack as Calalily had suggested. The damage has been done - now maybe it's best to sit back and let everyone else see for themselves just how bad paysites really are. After all, 2-for-U did this to itself without anybody's help by leaving Enayla's skins up and by only having one admin for the site (I'm not sure how true that is). This is just my opinion, anyway. However, if Chriko does come back from his vacation and doesn't do anything about the situation, then I'll be more than happy to join the animal army from Insim. :P I already have an animal-based name over there. :wink: ETA: I don't blame Chriko or his site for any of this. He may not have known about Andymy's thieving ways. I'll personally give Chriko the benefit of the doubt until I see how he reacts to all of this. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: calalily on 2007 April 24, 04:09:56 Yeah - I'm not so sure that Chriko should be given the benefit of the doubt - Andymy has stolen before.
He took the autumn leaves skin of Enayla's and lightened and flattened the leaves, and the winter face makeup of Aikea Guinea (both at MTS2) and made them into skintones. After debate and proof showing it MTS2 pulled it - when people were screaming he was thieving - it was pulled down. Chriko really should have known this - I mean - if you're going to get a guest artist - find out their history first, and all the thieving they've done in the past. I mean shit - I knew it so why not Chriko? Not to mention that that totally puts holes in his argument of "very solly - not know not know" - which is absolute bullshit. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: fourohfourerror on 2007 April 24, 04:16:13 What did Andymy steal from Enayla in the August donation set? All I see are clothes, no skins?
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 24, 04:31:42 Plus I also think a PROFESSIONAL site (after all I'm giving my money to them amirite?) should CHECK on their stuff. Booh.
Still, the skins are NOT down. Andymy still says they're "his skins" (quote: "you wan to tell to all the people not to download my skins and all the S hit ???")...you can tell he's not sorry for his actions. Especially as this has happened before. :roll: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 24, 05:38:55 Quote from: "calalily" Yeah - I'm not so sure that Chriko should be given the benefit of the doubt - Andymy has stolen before. Chriko really should have known this - I mean - if you're going to get a guest artist - find out their history first, and all the thieving they've done in the past. I mean shit - I knew it so why not Chriko? Quote from: "DarkAngel" Plus I also think a PROFESSIONAL site (after all I'm giving my money to them amirite?) should CHECK on their stuff. Booh. I never knew about Andymy's past, and thanks for letting me know. :oops: You've also raised really good points about why Chriko shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt, especially since he really should have checked out anybody who submits to his site. If nothing else, it would have ensured his site's (previously) good reputation. I used to really like 2-for-U, and I was really hoping that the owner was unaware. But the evidence seems to be piling up against him, and I'd really like to see how he handles this. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: DiSparrow on 2007 April 24, 05:45:31 Quote from: "darkangel" Plus I also think a PROFESSIONAL site (after all I'm giving my money to them amirite?) should CHECK on their stuff. Booh. Still, the skins are NOT down. Andymy still says they're "his skins" (quote: "you wan to tell to all the people not to download my skins and all the S hit ???")...you can tell he's not sorry for his actions. Especially as this has happened before. :roll: Yeah and because he seems to be not sorry about it makes me think he knew exactly what he was doing. And about the professional site... good point they should check their shit before they post it. You would think they would want to avoid issues like this. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: mohicantunes on 2007 April 24, 06:14:09 it's really pitifull andymy is acting like that.
I like 2 for u... hopefully chriko was to busy to notice that she has a thief in her website Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 24, 06:23:42 How many of Andymy's stolen creations were pulled from MTS2?
He sounds like he's panicking. I wonder if he's running scared, especially with Chriko being on "vacation" and all. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 24, 07:20:19 Quote WTF ??? did get that ??? I never posted at MTS2 NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! said Andymy on my comment about MTS2. Proof anyone? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 24, 07:57:28 Well... I never disputed that this was wrong.
I think I basically tried to say what calalily then said - they will look like the underdog etc. Besides, I just never think flaming is pretty. Threads about suckage here on PMBD just amuse me, but all-out wars just give me a headache. I'm prone to headaches. I can't wait to hear Chriko's excuse for hiring Andymy (I didn't know about his past either, by the way). I wonder if Andymy will get fired to cover Chriko's butt. Can't promise I'll boycut their free stuff. I'm not a shoes person in RL, I have like 3 pairs or something, but... they make great shoes for my sims to wear (I mean in their outfits, of course)! I don't know, they just seem to have better mesh and texture than a lot of sim's shoes out there. Well, some of them. Those thigh-high boots should just be... not. As for not donating... Well, I never did and sure ain't gonna start now. Anyhoo, the plot thickens. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 24, 08:06:55 Andymy wasn't the one who posted Enayla's skins at Mod.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 24, 10:01:14 I just caught up on the last 15 pages or so of the InSim thread... And THIS is definitely quote-worthy:
Quote from: "kathy" Remember we have reached a new age. NOBODY is responsible for their own actions. Remember that. Holy shit! I killed somebody! Bob made me do it! Bob: Joe made me do it! Joe: I blame the media! Media: Videogames. Videogames: Personal responsibility? Personal Responsibility: <AFK> :lol: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 24, 18:03:19 Quote from: "MizzKitty" Well... I never disputed that this was wrong. I think I basically tried to say what calalily then said - they will look like the underdog etc. Besides, I just never think flaming is pretty. Threads about suckage here on PMBD just amuse me, but all-out wars just give me a headache. As for not donating... Well, I never did and sure ain't gonna start now. Anyhoo, the plot thickens. I wasn't trying to attack you - I was just giving my reasons why Andymy doesn't deserve sympathy and was backing up DarkAngel's point. At the same time, I agree with you and Calalily about letting things play out with 2-for-U without the flames in the guestbook because 2-for-U's reputation is already shot. :wink: The last thing we want is Andymy being seen as some kind of underdog, even though he isn't one in my eyes. I don't like drama either, and I usually avoid it like the plague. When I read about the whole HChangeri bit awhile back, I remember thinking "WTF is wrong with that woman?" :shock: I never donated to the site either. But, thanks to the booty, we'll never have to. :) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 24, 18:41:11 Quote from: "Granuaile" I wasn't trying to attack you - I was just giving my reasons why Andymy doesn't deserve sympathy and was backing up DarkAngel's point. No worries :) I don't take this personally. We all have different points of view and I do understand some people's upset. Mmmm booty... Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: liegenschonheit on 2007 April 24, 18:41:47 I just got here, I've been sick and busy for the past week or so, so this is late but that's okay. Really, I'm posting to applaud Enayla for being such a class act about all of this. She is really a very thoughtful person, and she has handled this situation with grace. I really seriously doubt that she's ever directly lifted anything from another creator, though it is possible that people get inspired by other people's work or have similar ideas. As far as I remember, Ren is also a traditional artist that works from a tablet and hand draws all of her stuff, so maybe that's where the confusion comes from. I dunno. Anyway, not completely on topic, but recently Enayla contacted me to ask my permission to recolour lipsticks that had been made using her textures. Totally not necessary, as they are HER work in the first place, but that's the kind of person she is. Stealing, lifting and "borrowing" don't seem to be anywhere on her agenda.
I really do hope that Chriko had no idea about any of this and it's all a misunderstanding. 2 for U doesn't have the kind of track record that gets them automatic condemnation in my book, so I'm hoping all of this works out amicably. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 24, 18:50:42 I really hope so too, because I loved his site before all of this happened. Btw, is Chriko a he or a she?
I agree - Enayla is handling this in a very classy way, which is more than what most creators would do. She seems like a really sweet and generous person, and maybe that's why so many people are outraged about the whole Andymy/2-for-U debacle. Thanks, MizzKitty, and I totally agree. :) I mean...ARR! Let's grab some rum and pillage some more! :P Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 24, 18:53:26 Quote from: "liegenschonheit" I just got here, I've been sick and busy for the past week or so, so this is late but that's okay. Welcome back and hope you feel better. :) Oh and yea about everything I didn't quote - yea, I read the entire thread at insim earlier today and she is very nice and very calm about all this. It is very admirable. I'd probably be frothing at my mouth and throwing a hissyfit by now, knowing my own temper, so I find her restraint very inspiring. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: JMZ on 2007 April 24, 20:32:00 I have to say that many of the posts on the 2 for u message board have been reasonable. There hasn't too much flaming and name calling. (I don't see telling it as it is as flaming.)
Yeah - there have been one or two people frothing at the mouth, but it could have been a whole lot worse. There isn't much to do now though than wait for Chriko to come back from vacation. What happens then will be telling. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: keirra on 2007 April 24, 21:07:36 Wish I could afford a 2+ week vacation. :roll: Guess I need to sell pixels for the sims. :lol:
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Ensign EO on 2007 April 24, 22:25:26 Kathy quoted, verbatim, a Bash quote. I recognised it immediately.
http://bash.org/?627522 I want a vacation. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: vanadium on 2007 April 24, 22:32:31 This is sort of off topic... but in the same 2-for-U october donation pack, I noticed a new mesh with an underwear texture.
(http://2-f0r-u.de/img06/chriko_BlueSatinDream.jpg) (this one was made by chriko, not andymy.) I thought it looked familiar and eventually I found the same texture made by distant eyes. (http://distanteyesims.com/images/ly_bluecorset_1.jpg) So... I assume this means that the underwear texture was stolen as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong. (What I find the funniest is that both the models have the same hairstyle.) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 24, 22:36:15 Yes, it does seem as if someone stole the other one's work. However, in this case the 2-f0r-u version is better.
You sure they are the thieves in this instant? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Ensign EO on 2007 April 24, 22:39:21 Which was released first?
They could have used the same source picture. Problem you face with photoskinning if you just grab the first nice picture from Google--someone else will use it after you, or already have used it before you, and before you know it, there's a huge stink about theft. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 24, 22:46:45 I notice the panties are different. That's no evidence of anything, however, and it may be that they aren't really. I'm no expert on skinning.
I don't know. I have the 2-for-u version of that set from the booty and it looks really great in the game. The other one doesn't even look ok on the pic. It just seems sort of backwards if they can take that blurry, low-def skin and tweak it better - seems easier to take a nice skin and fug it up. And yea, Ensign, that's a theory... But what about the hair? That's sort of a big coincidence. You think it resembles the hair of the model on the pic they could both supposedly have photoskinned? ETA: The other top is also shorter and seems rather cut off in comparison. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: vanadium on 2007 April 24, 23:00:22 Strangely enough, they were both released october of last year. 2-for-U's version was uploaded on october 22, however on the distant eyes archive page it says they uploaded their version on october 16. (which is my birthday, if anyone cares.)
it is very possible that they both used the same source picture... but since 2-for-U already was proven to steal enayla's lovely work, I am suspicious. Technically, andymy and chriko are different people (i think) and I know that even if andymy stole something, that it doesn't mean chriko did too, but they are on the same site. Maybe Chriko didn't mind when andymy took enayla's textures because she took someone else's work also. (how do you pronounce "chriko" anyway? I've always wondered.) Sorry. I'll shut up now. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Ensign EO on 2007 April 24, 23:01:56 Anyone can edit an alpha. Takes less than a minute to chop off a couple of inches from a shirt. :wink:
The wrinkles look like they're in pretty much the same place, and there is a lot of similarities between the two. If it's not outright theft, then it's just a case of using the same source photo. People will always use pay hair from the big names. I personally don't think it means much. ETA: I keep wanting to spell it as Chiriko, since that's what I say in my head. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 24, 23:02:51 Quote from: "vanadia" Sorry. I'll shut up now. Don't apologise for having an opinion :) Was a very astute observation, too, I might add. I just lean toward the "probably photoskinned the same thing" myself for the reasons I already gave. :) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: pixelated on 2007 April 25, 00:30:32 I've seen that top texture used on MTS2 too, looking exactly the same. That the wrinkles look the same, is because they existed on the source pic. And the hair can be explained easily. Everyone wants to use the newest hair on their previews/contest entries, so I'm betting that hair was released just before the downloads were put up.
To me, it seems more like Chriko is a lousy site admin than a thief. Going away on vacation without leaving someone in charge of the site, and not checking uploads just putting them up... maybe she's just bored of it. From what I've heard, she's made some great meshes... so it'd seem really silly to risk your reputation by stealing a photoskinned texture, when you could just NOT do that and get admiration for your meshes. *shrug* EDIT: And I'm guessing it's pronounced like "kreeko". :O Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Sarah on 2007 April 25, 00:50:27 I think it's like Chi-ree-ko, I don't know why, it just flows better.
I personally think it was retarded of 2 for U to steal Enayla's skins, and Andymy(what kind of name is that anyway?) needs to find better things to do with her time. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: RedLove on 2007 April 25, 01:20:12 Yay fun guestbook entries
Code: 25.04.2007 3:18 Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 25, 05:54:37 I'm da Chihuahua of No-Mercy. :lol: Don't mess with me or I'll bite you. I BIT PARIS HILTON. :wink:
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 25, 06:11:14 I hope you didn't catch anything! :shock:
Chihuahuas are pretty relentless. :wink: How many animals are in your army now? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 25, 07:09:37 Quote from: "Granuaile" I hope you didn't catch anything! :shock: Chihuahuas are pretty relentless. :wink: How many animals are in your army now? 18 8) They are awesome Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 25, 08:24:24 Quote from: "CaptainJojoba" Quote from: "Granuaile" I hope you didn't catch anything! :shock: Chihuahuas are pretty relentless. :wink: How many animals are in your army now? 18 8) We are awesome U there too? What are you? The Rabid Rabbit? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: JMZ on 2007 April 25, 08:41:01 Quote from: "darkangel" U there too? What are you? The Rabid Rabbit? Actually - that's me. ^_^; Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 25, 08:43:14 I'm a member of Insim, but I don't think I've ever posted. I only registered so I can get the Insiminator. I'd walk through coals to get that because I found I can't play my game without it (at least in any meaningful way). Pescado's hacks also makes the game much better. <3
I'm not part of the animal army, but I will be if Chriko handles this badly. :twisted: CaptainJojoba, 18 members is pretty awesome! :) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 25, 08:45:05 Quote from: "JMZ" Quote from: "darkangel" U there too? What are you? The Rabid Rabbit? Actually - that's me. ^_^; O RLY? Did not know. HI RABBIT. *wags with the tail* Then maybe the penguin of justice or the something of doom. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Tchannie on 2007 April 25, 09:58:46 I'll join the Animal Army! Hell yer!
Or at least, I would if it wasn't banned at school. :shock: :x I'll do it later this evening. ^^ :wink: I'll be a cat, definitely. ^^ Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 25, 10:00:48 Quote from: "darkangel" Then maybe the penguin of justice or the something of doom. I think that was a squirrel. :lol: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 25, 11:57:26 Quote from: "Tchân de Bouley" I'll be a cat, definitely. ^^ We already have a killer kitten but you know...you could be the tigre of power or a puma or a leopard...after all, they're cats, too. :lol: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 25, 12:48:56 Quote from: "darkangel" Quote from: "JMZ" Quote from: "darkangel" U there too? What are you? The Rabid Rabbit? Actually - that's me. ^_^; O RLY? Did not know. HI RABBIT. *wags with the tail* Then maybe the penguin of justice or the something of doom. Sorry that was a typo, meant to say 'they' :oops: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: JMZ on 2007 April 25, 12:56:22 Quote from: "CaptainJojoba" Sorry that was a typo, meant to say 'they' :oops: Aww. You should come on over and join. ^_^ Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Paden on 2007 April 25, 13:46:12 Is there room for a part-time panther with a pissy disposition towards assholes and a tendency to bite offenders in a non-vital non-icky spot??
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Tchannie on 2007 April 25, 15:12:53 Aww. I wish I was the Killer Kitten, darnit.
I shall be...um...the...Slashing...Cougar??? :? :? :? :?: :?: :?: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 25, 16:26:54 Quote from: "Tchân de Bouley" Aww. I wish I was the Killer Kitten, darnit. I shall be...um...the...Slashing...Cougar??? :? :? :? :?: :?: :?: Get your arse over there hun! :wink: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Tchannie on 2007 April 25, 16:36:53 Going going going....I mean it!!!! :wink:
ETA: Did it!! 19 animals in the Animal Army. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: ScreamMyName on 2007 April 25, 18:19:07 can i join the army with my suricat rebellion??
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Paden on 2007 April 25, 18:29:28 Joined and at least I know it's no chicken outfit.... Ok, that was bad, but what else can you expect from the Pissy Panther?? It's ain't sanity by a long shot!
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: liegenschonheit on 2007 April 25, 18:37:42 Maybe I'm treading on dangerous ground here, but I'm starting to feel just a little bit sorry for Andy. I mean, yes he/she/it took a texture they shouldn't have and used it for a file that ended up in a donation pack. Bad on them! However, there is no evidence that this has occurred before, or that he/she/it had malicious intent. It was most likely an "I need something nice to put up for a donation pack, and this sim looks good" kind of thing.
For the record, I am NOT defending Andy on the use of Enayla's skin. I'm just saying that making unfounded accusations about other thefts without evidence isn't right either. If anything, instead of making Andy want to apologize and get this mess cleared up, it's probably making him/her/it feel like a victim. People make mistakes, lets not all go Jack Thompson on their asses. I know it's a natural reaction to want to protect someone we admire (especially Kathy, who is like a tiger protecting her cubs. Seriously, don't fuck with Kathy's people :) ), but lets not let it escalate out of hand either. Imma go sit down and pet my non-killer anti-attack kitties now. They actually run away from cat fights and cry for me to protect them :) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 25, 19:18:24 Quote from: "Paden" Joined and at least I know it's no chicken outfit.... Ok, that was bad, but what else can you expect from the Pissy Panther?? It's ain't sanity by a long shot! Awe wait you took my pissy panther? :wink: The Chihuahua of No-Mercy feels honored. :lol: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Tchannie on 2007 April 25, 19:26:59 Quote from: "Paden" Joined and at least I know it's no chicken outfit.... Ok, that was bad, but what else can you expect from the Pissy Panther?? It's ain't sanity by a long shot! Did you post? Coz I can't see it... Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 26, 06:56:13 Quote from: "liegenschonheit" Maybe I'm treading on dangerous ground here, but I'm starting to feel just a little bit sorry for Andy. I mean, yes he/she/it took a texture they shouldn't have and used it for a file that ended up in a donation pack. Bad on them! However, there is no evidence that this has occurred before, or that he/she/it had malicious intent. It was most likely an "I need something nice to put up for a donation pack, and this sim looks good" kind of thing. For the record, I am NOT defending Andy on the use of Enayla's skin. I'm just saying that making unfounded accusations about other thefts without evidence isn't right either. If anything, instead of making Andy want to apologize and get this mess cleared up, it's probably making him/her/it feel like a victim. People make mistakes, lets not all go Jack Thompson on their asses. I know it's a natural reaction to want to protect someone we admire (especially Kathy, who is like a tiger protecting her cubs. Seriously, don't fuck with Kathy's people :) ), but lets not let it escalate out of hand either. You're absolutely right, and I think there are a lot of people who agree with you but are just being silent about it. I don't think Andymy's right either, but it's also not right that he was falsely accused of something he didn't do (or at least accused without proof). I can believe that he doesn't have admin control of the site, because a lot of site owners don't want to give that kind of control to someone unless they really trust him or her. A lot of people are giving Chriko until the 30th to come back and resolve this. I think that's more than reasonable, even though he should have at least put someone temporarily in charge while he took an extended break. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: PirateOfMashedPotatoes on 2007 April 26, 08:07:10 I'm another who agrees with what you wrote, liegenschonheit. We need to try to seperate ourselves from the mob mentality and give it some time now to see if they do anything about it. It's just making everyone look bad to go on and on like this.
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: JMZ on 2007 April 26, 08:19:48 Quote from: "PirateOfMashedPotatoes" We need to try to seperate ourselves from the mob mentality and give it some time now to see if they do anything about it. It's just making everyone look bad to go on and on like this. Actually, there haven't been many posts on their guestbook in the last day or so, and the thread on InSim has been fairly quiet. I think most people realise that there is nothing to be done but to wait for Chriko to return and any more posting at the moment is not going to make any difference. Of course, what happens next depends on what Chriko does when (s)he returns. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 26, 09:05:00 Quote from: "JMZ" Quote from: "CaptainJojoba" Sorry that was a typo, meant to say 'they' :oops: Aww. You should come on over and join. ^_^ Well I never said I hadn't :wink: Am just not going to reveal my identity... And the pics of the blue underwear a couple of pages back - Am pretty sure its from a reference photo as All Dolled Up has the same thing. The way I see it, Anymy has been exceptionally stupid in all of this, and it has been made worse by the fact that Chikro has gone off and left no-one in charge of the site. I see that as very irresponsible.. Quote We need to try to seperate ourselves from the mob mentality and give it some time now to see if they do anything about it. It's just making everyone look bad to go on and on like this. If you are talking about the AA then thats calmed down a lot...just a bunch of crazy animal fools :lol: There has been fewer guestbook entires, and the thread at InSim is being fairly quiet as JMZ said. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 26, 09:06:02 Quote from: "JMZ" Of course, what happens next depends on what Chriko does when (s)he returns. ...which would be...TODAY. :lol: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Jojoba on 2007 April 26, 09:14:28 Yep, apparently Chikro is back today. :roll:
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 26, 11:37:43 It doesn't look like (s)he did anything about the situation yet. :?
Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 26, 12:19:56 Quote from: "Granuaile" It doesn't look like (s)he did anything about the situation yet. :? Then let's have a little intermezzo (sp?) with muzak and everything... Dumdidum... Love your avie btw Gran... It's so cute! Reminds me of one of my cats when she tries to eat our books. I don't believe we have any books left without little teeth marks in them. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 April 27, 17:18:10 Quote She has an average of over 2 million visitors to her website a month. Now take the lowest number of those 2 million which would be at 10 percent that's 20,000 people that have gotten that donation pack. Just going by common sales and that would mean she has made at least 40,000 Euros if all everyone of them did was donate 2 Euro's many donate more. That's 120,000 US dollars more than most make in a year. That's why she can afford to take so many vaccations. WHAT THE F... THAT PAYSITE MUST BE DESTROYED. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: fourohfourerror on 2007 April 27, 17:40:03 Yes, but is that 2 million unique hits a month? I know I check the site every day or so, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. And do we know that 10% are donating? It may only be 1%, or less.
But yes, either way it's a paysite which must be destroyed. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 27, 20:22:26 I couldn't agree more, fourohfourerror. :twisted:
I see Chriko hasn't done anything yet, and she had all day today and yesterday to take the skins down and issue an apology. :? Do you still have room in your animal army, darkangel or CaptainJojoba? Quote Love your avie btw Gran... It's so cute! Reminds me of one of my cats when she tries to eat our books. I don't believe we have any books left without little teeth marks in them. Thanks, MizzKitty! I really like yours too. :D My puppy tries to eat books, but my cat doesn't touch them. Instead, the cat acts more like a dog when he tries to drink out of the toilet bowl and eats out of the garbage. Edited so I wouldn't double post. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 April 27, 20:25:51 Where's the proof that she's back?
Not disputing, merely asking. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: JMZ on 2007 April 27, 20:58:30 There is ALWAYS room in the Animal Army for new recruits, Granuaile. ^_^
And MizzKitty, AFAIK there is no actual proof that she's back. In fact we only had the word of Dori that she was supposed to be back yesterday and for all we know she could have been pulling a date outta her ass. :evil: Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Granuaile on 2007 April 28, 01:21:04 Quote from: "JMZ" There is ALWAYS room in the Animal Army for new recruits, Granuaile. ^_^ Thanks, JMZ! :D I'll give Chriko four more hours (because it's after 8 p.m. over here), and I'll join the animal army if she hasn't done anything about the situation yet. :twisted: Now, I have to pick out a name. Do you have any dogs in the army? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Amy on 2007 April 28, 04:47:10 Quote from: "vanadia" Strangely enough, they were both released october of last year. 2-for-U's version was uploaded on october 22, however on the distant eyes archive page it says they uploaded their version on october 16. (which is my birthday, if anyone cares.) it is very possible that they both used the same source picture... but since 2-for-U already was proven to steal enayla's lovely work, I am suspicious. Technically, andymy and chriko are different people (i think) and I know that even if andymy stole something, that it doesn't mean chriko did too, but they are on the same site. Maybe Chriko didn't mind when andymy took enayla's textures because she took someone else's work also. (how do you pronounce "chriko" anyway? I've always wondered.) Sorry. I'll shut up now. The blue underwear is almost everywhere: (http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8949/398346we6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us) I found it at TSR and I remember seeing the top at Rampage. I checked and found the panties http://www.rampage.com/page/items.deptid.8.itemid.9781 So no stealing here. I remember it because I felt in love with the real one (on rampage). Anyway, this shouldn't be a witch hunt. And this kind of thing happens very often because a majority of creators photoskinnedclothes from online store and there is not a lot of these stores who offers nice pictures or high quality pic... Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: JMZ on 2007 May 01, 09:56:38 Update:
Chriko is back, has deleted the skins and has issued an apology on the front page of the site. I'd have thanked her in the Guestbook, but she's deleted/disabled it. XD Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: MizzKitty on 2007 May 01, 10:15:22 Quote from: "JMZ" Update: Chriko is back, has deleted the skins and has issued an apology on the front page of the site. I'd have thanked her in the Guestbook, but she's deleted/disabled it. XD Can't say I really blame her. Is this over, then? Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: JMZ on 2007 May 01, 12:02:44 Quote from: "MizzKitty" Is this over, then? I'd say so. The skins are (finally) down and an apology has been issued. That's all that was really wanted. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Marhis on 2007 May 01, 12:07:54 I only add that her apology and blame attribution (Andymy is the only one to blame) would be ok if 2-for-u would be a free site.
If you sell stuff, you're no more a fan site only, and you are entirely responsible for what your staff does. And no, you are NOT allowed to go on vacation without business organization. Anyway, glad to see that something has been done. Better than nothing. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: GeneGenie on 2007 May 01, 12:31:19 The so called apology is pretty naff:
Quote i trust in my co-worker and i don't control their work so we can make mistakes. Obviously she's doesn't know her co-worker as well as she did :wink:. And she shouldn't let the guy get away with it, but knowing the simming world he'll just a slap on the hand and told not to do it again. Quote I'm really sorry for what I did, it is my mistake and no one elses fault. Enayla I hope you'll forgive me. This was a mistake from which I learned a lot. As a promise to all I'll never do again what I did. (above quote edited to purely make sense) I wouldn't forgive him no matter what he said; stealing someone work that they spent a lot of time on and then selling it when it is originally free, says that the guy in question doesn't have many morals and just wants a quick buck. Sadly this is true for many other people not just in the world of Sims. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: darkangel on 2007 May 02, 13:36:42 Quote from: "GeneGenie" I wouldn't forgive him no matter what he said; stealing someone work that they spent a lot of time on and then selling it when it is originally free, says that the guy in question doesn't have many morals and just wants a quick buck. Sadly this is true for many other people not just in the world of Sims. You should know that none of the coworkers get ANY money. Even if their stuff is featured in paysets, they don't get any money, everything goes to Chriko. I talked to him on MSN and he just seems pretty naive. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: GeneGenie on 2007 May 02, 14:00:42 Oh thats just even worse! And that is why I hate paysites :twisted:
Quote I talked to him on MSN and he just seems pretty naive. And thats why Chirko employed him; gets him to do all the work and keeps all the money as he's too naive to argue back or to understand that if the site is pay and he makes items, then he should get some of the money. Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: dewshine on 2007 May 02, 16:21:26 While I'm glad the situation with Enayla's and Glance's stolen textures is over, I'll be watching andymy and 2-4-u for more transgressions.
Didn't andymy state that he was heading off to take one of simcribbing's textures for a new skintone? ~The Wolf of Retribution~ Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Ginseng on 2007 May 02, 17:00:07 Ren/Louis at Sim cribbling allows reuse of her textures freely. Don't know what'll happen if he tries to put it in a donation pack, though. Maybe someone should warn her :P
*stir stir* Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: JMZ on 2007 May 02, 19:27:49 Quote from: "dewshine" Didn't andymy state that he was heading off to take one of simcribbing's textures for a new skintone? ~The Wolf of Retribution~ I recall him saying something along those lines. Wasn't it in that IM with the Chihahua of No Mercy? (I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong :P) Title: 2 for u thieving off of Enayla Post by: Anouk on 2007 May 02, 19:42:35 That would mean the end of his Sims 2 carreer, since Chriko probably is smarter than allowing this, and no-one in their right mind will hire him or even use any of his stuff.
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