PMBD

The Pirate Ship => ARR! => Topic started by: Pescado on 2008 August 20, 15:12:58



Title: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 August 20, 15:12:58
So, two days ago, TSR attacked. After a brief kafuffle, their pathetic social engineering attempt was repelled. You may point and laugh now. (http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/legal)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: funkybunk on 2008 August 20, 15:25:57
What the hell?

Legal action? Why the hell would you take legal action on something you have no right to sell anyways? Plus, what kind of judge would rule in favor of somebody who is in his forties, making his income off of a game and not paying taxes for his so-called "business."


They are getting really pathetic. Why try to take legal action? You'll only end up making yourself look like a giant loser.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SBNao on 2008 August 20, 15:47:41
I hope I'm not being completly dense, but I don't see the scuffle with TSR there...


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 August 20, 15:57:42
Possible response 'Dear Sir, if you persist in your pursuit of legal actions, I shall have no other recourse than to report you and your client to the Swedish Government for Tax Evasion.  In fact, it my be my duty to do so, regardless.'

Dear gods....EA and their non confrontational approach is becoming annoying.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 20, 15:59:16
Would love the details of the kafuffle.  That is an awesomesauce word. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Missbonbon on 2008 August 20, 16:10:43
It won't open the link for me  :-\

What I am curious about is how they attacked?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 20, 16:23:28
I always spell it kerfuffle.  :-\ Hahaha! He should play the sims and read the eula that came with freetime.  PC's in the shop at the mo' - but Sherrie has it - all hail Sherrie. http://www.sherriesim.com/site/info/news.html (http://www.sherriesim.com/site/info/news.html)

I also enjoy this quote:

Quote
I have since visited EA in Redwood Shores and had numerous meetings with the web and legal teams there.

Yet EA do nothing.
Yet EA don't change their EULA.
Yet EA don't even clear up the exchange.
No lawyer worth their salt would bother with this malarkey.

I hope when Apartment Life comes out, a kind pirate screenshots the EULA again, which will undoubtedly be the same.  :D I will do it if the compy is back.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 August 20, 16:26:14
Dumbasses.

Quote
You appear to choose not to take any action based on the same excuse the
pirates were using at the time, the Sims 2 End User Licence Agreement
(EULA).
It's not an excuse. It's a legal document which the artists and management agreed to.
Quote
At that time the EULA specified that users could not sell for profit any
custom creations made using game code.
And at that time, you were clearly violating it. As you still are. A legal document. Yet you threaten legal action. Logic, wherefore art thou?
Quote
As a result, the EULA was changed in August
2007 to remove any references to Non Commercial sites from the Custom
Content EULA.
True. However, the Body Shop and HomeCrafter EULAs remain unchanged, as does the EULA included with all  EP/SP distributed before and after August 2007 to present.
Quote
EA no longer has an opinion on the distribution of Custom
Content on Free/Donation/Pay sites.
Point me to their statement to this effect. Their legal statement.
Quote
The EULA which they (and seemingly
you) used to hide behind has been invalid now for a year.
False. See: continued distribution of the EP/SP/BodyShop/HomeCrafter EULA.
Quote
Given that we have made this formal request, our only option thereafter is
legal, and now that you are knowingly hosting these files we would attempt
to recover all legal costs from your company.
Good luck with that.
Quote
Regards,
<NO NAME GIVEN>
Steve is the owner of TSR. I highly doubt Steve would not sign his name.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Rovam on 2008 August 20, 16:26:41
Summary for those who can't see it for whatever reason/don't speak wankese:

Quote from: INTARWEBZ LAWYER
Dear sirs,

Omg liek stop steelin are filez  ;___;  we r ttly BFFs with EA n dey arent suing us, so we r sue U!!!1

so take down teh booty or u will b SORY!!!!!!1 U SELF-CONFESSED PIRATES OMG

BAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

signed,

Mr. Internet Lawyerguy


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Yaardarm Monkey II on 2008 August 20, 16:29:41
Quote
Given that we have made this formal request, our only option thereafter is
legal, and now that you are knowingly hosting these files we would attempt
to recover all legal costs from your company.

Regards,
<NO NAME GIVEN>


"no name"?????  ahahahahahahaha   :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Jojoba on 2008 August 20, 16:31:19
Aw Pes they gave you a legal threat, you lucky boy!

Quote
Regards,
<NO NAME GIVEN>
Steve is the owner of TSR. I highly doubt Steve would not sign his name.

That struck me as odd as well. Very odd.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Yaardarm Monkey II on 2008 August 20, 16:37:11
Quote
Given that we have made this formal request, our only option thereafter is
legal,

sounds like some 12 year old trying to sound important and simply using fancy words...and incorrectly I might add   :P

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/thereafter

thereafter 
A adverb
 1  thereafter, thenceforth
 
from that time on; "thereafter he never called again" 
   


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 20, 16:38:18
Maybe it was really Atwa.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anouk on 2008 August 20, 16:40:53
EULA never changed. Case closed.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 August 20, 16:41:25
Maybe it was really Atwa.

Nah, she's spending her time making threatening SimSecrets against the remaining FAs.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Missbonbon on 2008 August 20, 16:44:48
Hey I can see it now!

Go to war with em Pes. Afterall......you can point them to Numenor's CEP http://hideki.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=92541

"Since v. 1.0, the CEP contains copyright lines, stating that the CEP files have been created by RGiles and myself.
When a creator recolours or clones a CEP object, some files (namely, Material Overrides and Geometry Nodes, and occasionally other files) are copied from the CEP to the recolour or clone package; as a result, the new packages will contain some files created and copyrighted by RGiles and/or me.
Therefore, BE WARNED that every recolour or clone you create using the CEP will contain one or more files created and copyrighted by us.
If having in your packages files created by other users (and copyrighted by them) is a problem for you, please don't use the CEP."


A direct quote from his thread at mts2. So if we are using their copyright files.... well they are using Rglies and Numenor's. And here's a little tid bit from adobe photoshop as well!

"You may access and use the Adobe Materials and User Content solely for personal, informational, non-commercial and internal purposes, in accordance with the Terms;

You may not distribute or sell, rent, lease, license or otherwise make the Adobe Materials or the User Content available to others;

Some Services involve collaboration and file-sharing services among a specific group (a “Group”) in conjunction with such collaboration and file-sharing (“Shared Group Content”). Members of a Group may use the Shared Group Content available to such Group in any manner that has been agreed upon by the User providing such Shared Group Content to the Group. It is your sole responsibility to determine what limitations, if any, are placed on Shared Group Content that you distribute within your Group. You agree that Adobe has no liability of any kind should members of your Group modify, destroy, corrupt, copy or distribute your Shared Group Content in violation of the limitations that you may impose on its use.

you have received consent from any and all persons depicted in Your Content to use Your Content as set forth in the Terms, including distribution, public display, public performance and reproduction of Your Content.

You agree not to use, or to encourage or permit others to use, the Site or Services to:

   1. Make Available any Material that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, tortious, defamatory, libelous, vulgar, obscene, child pornography, lewd, profane, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

Make Available any Material that infringes any Intellectual Property Right of any party;

Impersonate any person or entity, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;"


And that's only halfway through. Eventhough adobe doesn't claim ownership of the textures/graphics created in photoshop, but tsr letting people create those disgusting child outfits is clearly violating adobe's EULA, not to mention all those celebrity sims, and disney stuff they host as well.

I would call them up on there threats because what are they going to say in court? "All of our staff has no job and we pay them to create for the sims. We evade tax's because it's an online company that probably makes thousands of dollars a year. We have no permits, or licenses, as per adobe, to claim ownership over these textures. And finally, we don't even create these files, someone else does and we charge for them."

If I was a judge I would call them crazy :P

edited: because I was spelling like a dumbass.....


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anouk on 2008 August 20, 16:51:33
That, and ofcourse the EULA never changed. XD


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Yaardarm Monkey II on 2008 August 20, 16:54:28
This guy goes all over the board...not sure if he knows what he is: plural or singular.
Such butchering of English grammar in a 'supposed' legal document is proof of the 12ness of the author   :P

I am an owner

our website

I have since visited

I am writing to

taken from our website

we have made this formal request

our only option

we would attempt


we = pronoun, plural in construction

I = pronoun, singular in construction



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dietofworms on 2008 August 20, 17:17:38
Summary for those who can't see it for whatever reason/don't speak wankese:

Quote from: INTARWEBZ LAWYER
Dear sirs,

Omg liek stop steelin are filez  ;___;  we r ttly BFFs with EA n dey arent suing us, so we r sue U!!!1

so take down teh booty or u will b SORY!!!!!!1 U SELF-CONFESSED PIRATES OMG

BAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

signed,

Mr. Internet Lawyerguy

ROFLMAO! :D

Pescado, did you get this via email ?  What happened in the two days since you got it?  I think it's not so horribly written that it couldn't be by Steve.  The switching between "I" and "we" is sloppy, but not ungrammatical.  Was the signature clipped out, or was there never any signature?

*prepares fallout shelter in event of international incident between Sweden and Malaysia*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SBNao on 2008 August 20, 17:22:14
.....when I refreshed the link I was able to see the new link for the TSR letter, as well as the new crying baby picture. Pwetty.

Anywhoo, going onto EA's website, I did a search for EULA and got this!:

Quote
QUESTION
What is the EA End User License Agreement?
Answer

EA TOOLS END USER LICENSE Electronic Arts Inc, and its subsidiaries, affiliates and licensors(collectively, "EA") grants you a non-transferable non-exclusive license to download and/or install and use one copy of the software tool ("Tool") and/or materials ("Materials") (collectively the "Tools & Materials") solely for your personal noncommercial use in connection with EA's products, in accordance with the terms below.EA owns all of the rights, title and interest in the Tools & Materials. You may not alter any of EA's trademarks or logos, or alter or remove any of EA's trademark or copyright notices included in or with the Tools & Materials or EA's products. Your right to use Tools & Materials is limited to the license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, distribute, perform, publish, modify, create works from, or use any of the Tools & Materials. Without limiting the preceding sentence, you may not modify, reverse engineer, disassemble, license, transfer, distribute, create works from, or sell the Tool, or use the Tools & Materials to further any commercial purpose. Without limiting the foregoing, you may not use the Tools & Materials to promote another product or business, or on any site that operates or promotes a server emulator. You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for EA's products and provided that if you do so, you must also post the following notice on your site on the same web page(s) where those materials are located:"This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or its licensors. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors.
"All Rights Reserved." You will not represent that your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors or that any other content on your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors.

Etc Etc...2008, Electronic Arts.

Never changed. Easily Available online for Anyone with Half a Brain to Find.

Or in my peepod case, anyone who finally takes the time to read it.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 August 20, 17:27:16
Pescado, did you get this via email ?  What happened in the two days since you got it?  I think it's not so horribly written that it couldn't be by Steve.  The switching between "I" and "we" is sloppy, but not ungrammatical.  Was the signature clipped out, or was there never any signature?
This was received through the hosting service. There was no signature in the message attached. I do not censor any part of the legal threats or hatemail.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Ashbashtus on 2008 August 20, 17:30:05
So ridiculous..who threatens with legal action and name drops their "associate" and then doesnt sign their fucking letter?!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 August 20, 18:21:12
Thanks, SBNao. I was looking in all the wrong places for it. I was sure they had the real EULA still posted somewhere.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Yaardarm Monkey II on 2008 August 20, 19:38:20
here's the link for anyone interested:

https://easims.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/easims.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=8174&p_created=1098725015&p_sid=MhUMOObj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MjAzLDIwMyZwX3Byb2RzPTAmcF9jYXRzPTAmcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1FQSBFbmQgVXNlciBMaWNlbnNlIEFncmVlbWVudA**&p_li=&p_topview=1



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: missangelica on 2008 August 20, 19:41:47
I have to wonder.. why now?  PMBD has been around for what, nearly 2 years now?  The info included in the threat is also inaccurate so I don't know why he/she even bothered.   ::)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Jojoba on 2008 August 20, 19:59:53
I have to wonder.. why now?  PMBD has been around for what, nearly 2 years now?  The info included in the threat is also inaccurate so I don't know why he/she even bothered.   ::)

I wondered this as well, and concluded that it was to do with TS3. It seemed too coincidental that TS3's release date is announced, and then TSR go all legalz on Pescado. Am thinking that they wanted to basically get rid of us before TS3 comes out, so we do not cause them damage still

However, what TSR fail to realise is a number of things: the EULA did not change and its easy to proove this..Pescado is PESCADO...taking down the booty, if even possible, would not get rid of pirates or pirating - TSR are the cause, we/this are the effect. The way to eliminate pirating is to not be a paysite in the first place  ::)



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: JFederated on 2008 August 20, 20:02:35
What an insult.  Because someone says so in an unsigned email it must be true?  Yeahright.  I'm gonna send an anonymous email around demanding money, see who pays up.  ::)

The owner wants 'his' stuff removed from the booty...'his'?  Uh huh.

Lay off the hallucinogens, dude, they've impaired your reality.  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dusdeedawn on 2008 August 20, 20:12:26
Jojoba, you took the words right out of my mouth!
And I also wanted to point and laugh at this:
Quote
They clearly continue to support and encourage all constructive fan sites in the community.
Note the word constructive. Since when is TSR constructive? Their crap ruins games around the world!
Also, this is an age-old debate, about file-sharing and the internet. I highly doubt that <NO NAME GIVEN> is going to put the final nail in the coffin. I doubt that <NO NAME GIVEN> is even competent enough to put a nail in anything. TSR is a joke. Give 'em more butthurt, Pescado!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Tabby on 2008 August 20, 20:13:38
 Maybe Atwat sent it. She has been banned (for now) from TSR, maybe she thinks if she finally got the big bad pirates to go away, she could be a hero.  ;)

::puts on tinfoil hat::


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 20, 20:34:20
Two words: Epic fail  ::)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Ry on 2008 August 20, 20:59:37
OMG, get the lawyer! We's goin' to court.  ::)

Give it up already, TSR. EA does not give a rats ass about your stuff being *stolen*. If the company who owns it doesn't care, what lawyer would? Oh, right, the made up intarwebz kind.  :-X


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: cookiepirate on 2008 August 20, 21:13:50
Conversation between Atwat and Thom@$$:

A:  Come on baby, let me back into TSR.
T:  I can't, my hands are tied, and not in the good way!

Atwat grins and drools a little...
Thom@$$ turns a bit and grimaces...


A:  I'll do ANYTHING!
T:  Well...
A:  What??  Tell me!!!  Remember...ANYTHING!
T:  We need to to stop PMBD, I'm just not sure how!  Too many FA's and SA's are figuring out how we scam them and the sheeple. 
A:  I HATE PMBD, they always call me ATWAT, and I don't get it!
T:  It means A TWAT!!  How many times do we have to go over that?

Atwat tries to think hard, but only thinks of Thom@$$ hard...
Thom@$$ knows that look and starts to gag...

A:  What can I do to stop them?
T:  Hmm, not sure, but it needs to sound really official and threatening, to scare them away...
A:  I know!!!  I'll send a email to that Pescado guy telling him how I visited EA legal eagles, and that they have to stop what they are doing.  AND I won't sign it, because real legal emails don't have signatures.
T:  Be sure to mention how the EULA has not changed and make it sound all official.
A:  And then I can come back? 
T:  Sure, bitch baby, with all your fugly nice creations.

Atwat swoons and bats her eyelashes, hearts fart out of her ass...
Thom@$$ can't believe he had to do this...DAMN you Steve!!


edited cuz I lost a t somewhere along the way.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 20, 21:15:44
ROFL @ cookiepirate  ;D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 20, 21:49:02
Until they learn to read legal documents out of something other than their ass, I'm not going to bother with worrying. Much of their content is offensive, borderline child porn and badly done. So, they can fuck off and die with a cheese grater in one hand, a jug of corn oil in the other and a crack pipe by the bed, as they so obviously must have been fucked up stoned when they wrote that piece of garbage.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: falln_angel on 2008 August 20, 21:57:58
Cookiepirate, all I can say to that is:

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1818/winns6.jpg)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Mareada on 2008 August 20, 22:03:16
When it comes to downsizing some bloated TSR ego's trash to fit reality with the very best choice of words, nobody can do it better than Paden!
Spot on as always! :)

At least this shitty threat fits their weird self-perception.
What impact do they think will this have, except for even more P&L?
Well good luck to them, that'll cost them a tub full of sheeple subscription fees money if they really want to go through with it. *shrugs*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Aralie on 2008 August 20, 23:36:03
LOL! Falln, that's a great cat pic. One I hadn't seen before!

So TSR is throwing legal threats out. Hm, why am I not surprised. lol. It probably is just some 12 year old TSR lover (who pretends to know big words) trying to scare away the big bad pirates from their favorite site. Oh noes! We better all get lawyers! ::)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: keirra on 2008 August 20, 23:38:52
IMO, not signing the letter is the funniest thing evah.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: jilly on 2008 August 21, 00:01:48
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q186/jilly4/roflmao.jpg)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ValancySterling on 2008 August 21, 02:23:21
LOL! Falln, that's a great cat pic. One I hadn't seen before!

So TSR is throwing legal threats out. Hm, why am I not surprised. lol. It probably is just some 12 year old TSR lover (who pretends to know big words) trying to scare away the big bad pirates from their favorite site. Oh noes! We better all get lawyers! ::)

I'm pretty sure its a legit email from the TSR higher ups.  It's pseudo-legal language makes me think that because it just sounds so much like a scam artist.  Scam artists use pseudo-legalease all the time to make themselves sound more legitmate.  And I can't think of a bigger bunch of scam artists than TSR.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Rose on 2008 August 21, 02:54:24
Just an fyi, I don't know if this counts since Thomass is apparently in Europe, but in the US you can't threaten a lawsuit if you don't intend to follow through. It opens you up to legal action.

Additionally, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for Thomass to find a lawyer willing to represent him, I'm just very doubtful he could afford a lawsuit.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: BelletowerWench on 2008 August 21, 02:55:55
I think the TSR legal help is no match for the Pirate King... or for anyone on this forum.  falln and jilly - those pics are priceless!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SnarkyShark on 2008 August 21, 03:11:23
In response:

Dear Thomass and twats,

BITE US.

- the pirates


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dusdeedawn on 2008 August 21, 03:16:57
 ;D Love it, Snarky! Now just add the kitty macros and a trick envelope that spits rum, and we're all set!  ;D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 21, 03:26:08
In response:

Dear Thomass and twats,

BITE US.

- the pirates

Pure genius!  ;D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Aralie on 2008 August 21, 04:25:39
LOL! Falln, that's a great cat pic. One I hadn't seen before!

So TSR is throwing legal threats out. Hm, why am I not surprised. lol. It probably is just some 12 year old TSR lover (who pretends to know big words) trying to scare away the big bad pirates from their favorite site. Oh noes! We better all get lawyers! ::)

I'm pretty sure its a legit email from the TSR higher ups.  It's pseudo-legal language makes me think that because it just sounds so much like a scam artist.  Scam artists use pseudo-legalease all the time to make themselves sound more legitmate.  And I can't think of a bigger bunch of scam artists than TSR.

Oh, I know. It probably is. But, since the person is from TSR they are still 12ish IMO.  ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Peasant on 2008 August 21, 05:55:33
LOL! Falln, that's a great cat pic. One I hadn't seen before!

So TSR is throwing legal threats out. Hm, why am I not surprised. lol. It probably is just some 12 year old TSR lover (who pretends to know big words) trying to scare away the big bad pirates from their favorite site. Oh noes! We better all get lawyers! ::)

I'm pretty sure its a legit email from the TSR higher ups.  It's pseudo-legal language makes me think that because it just sounds so much like a scam artist.  Scam artists use pseudo-legalease all the time to make themselves sound more legitmate.  And I can't think of a bigger bunch of scam artists than TSR.

I knew it!  Thoma$$ is the Nigerian Prince who wants to give me all of his money, just as long as I give him my bank routing and account number!  Well, I'm so TOTALLY on to him now.  I won't fall for that a fourth time  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dusdeedawn on 2008 August 21, 06:13:37
AAAAHHH!   :o
I know this is so off-topic, but holy shit, Peasant, I freakin love your avatar!

Also, T$R sucks, etc. (cover my ass, and all that)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: They on 2008 August 21, 06:21:29
It's another case of...

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k67/mshackerssuck/humanexcretedude.png)

THOMA$$ EXCREMENT!

(I don't even have to show what comes after that.)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FreakyBooty on 2008 August 21, 06:33:18
I love, that after months of being away, I come back and see good ol' pirates are still making TSR cry, as pitifully as ever.  Gives me the warm fuzzies, it does.  I missed you guys.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 21, 06:39:59
I wondered where you had jumped ship to, welcome back!

edit: I canNOT spell tonight!  :P


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 August 21, 14:22:59
I believe my old Carla Niven macro is SO suitable a response to that laughable email:
Just imagine the Diva as Thomass and crazy black octupus fag hag as Atwat.
BTW CookiePirate you WIN THE INTERWEBZ!!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/deelink/carla.jpg)


*drinks her 15th rum in a row


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Missbonbon on 2008 August 21, 14:39:22
that seriously scared the hell out of me dee


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ChaosInAMinor on 2008 August 21, 17:42:51
...Is that Folsom Street Fair? Or Gay Pride? That definitely looks like some of the stuff going on here.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Ry on 2008 August 21, 18:50:15
I love Buddy CHrist.
DOGMA FTW!!!!

Snootchie bootchies!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: nihil on 2008 August 21, 19:01:46
"Boo-boo Kitty Fuck" is even better.   :D

Dogma is definitely on my Top 10 film list.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Ry on 2008 August 21, 19:13:47
Hahahaha.

Kevin Smith is just awesome and fully do-able. *nods head emphatically*

But Jason Mewes....*sigh*... totally stalk-able.

Yep. Okay then.

*slinks off*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Markus on 2008 August 21, 19:41:13
This letter reeks of Sim_Outlaw to me. I wouldn't put something like this past him. ::)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dusdeedawn on 2008 August 21, 19:54:14
This letter reeks of Sim_Outlaw to me. I wouldn't put something like this past him.
That would be a little ironic, no? Calling himself Sim_Outlaw and then threatening people with the 'law'.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: falln_angel on 2008 August 21, 19:59:57
This letter reeks of Sim_Outlaw to me. I wouldn't put something like this past him. ::)

In tone, maybe. But I don't think he could come up with something that coherent without outside help.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Piratey on 2008 August 21, 20:25:08
Quote
Given that we have made this formal request, our only option thereafter is
legal, and now that you are knowingly hosting these files we would attempt
to recover all legal costs from your company.
I didn't realise Pescado owns a company... ::)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 August 21, 20:51:43
Of course he does - he owns one and it scams sheeples into spending money for....oh, wait, that's TSR - silly me....

-sarcastic fox-


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Nightmare on 2008 August 21, 20:52:23
As a result, the EULA was changed in August
2007 to remove any references to Non Commercial sites from the Custom
Content EULA. EA no longer has an opinion on the distribution of Custom
Content on Free/Donation/Pay sites. They clearly continue to support and
encourage all constructive fan sites in the community

First the Eula hasn´t changed bastard.

Second, even if the Eula has changed, that doesn´t mind, you can´t retroactively benefit from the new EULA, you have broken the law in that moment you have to pay for it, and you are still a thief because you knew that. Thieving scoundrel, nothing more

See my avatar for further information on what you must do. TSF= The Sims Fraud


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Surelyfunke on 2008 August 22, 09:57:13
LOL. Worst "legal document" evar. NO NAME GIVEN. ROFFLE.



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: justso on 2008 August 22, 10:14:27
Is it just the laws of the EULA they are breaking.  I read these posts and if some of them are true they are breaking the laws of the land too.  Where I come from if you have any earnings they must be declared for tax purposes.  The FA are employed by tsr so they are either employers or employment agents. I am from the UK so employment laws are different so maybe I am confused but you can't earn money without paying taxes and here an employer must pay stamp duty for each employee.  I don't know how that works anywhere else. I know if I was guilty of tax evasion I would be keeping a very low profile and try not to piss to many people off.  No matter what country you come from though one thing is the same no matter how greedy you are the government is greedier and wants a cut of whatever you have.  The bit on the end of the threat saying that they would recover legal costs from your company is that Pescado or are they trying to scare the web providers of pmbd into taking the whole  site down.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Astonished lemons on 2008 August 22, 10:25:25
No lawyer worth his suit would take on a case as translucent as this one.

Its basically one party stealing illegal goods and distributing them for free without and reprimands from the rightfull owners, ON TEH INTERWEBS.

If everyone sued over distributing of content on the internet there wouldnt BE any internet!

'Thats my caturday pic, I made it! I'll see you in court!"


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Mareada on 2008 August 22, 11:09:26
Well, it was about time they finally authored something OFFISHUL.  ::)  Since when does PMBD exist?

If this isn't a self-appointed, 12ish 'rescuer' of TSR (which is my personal belief), what made them write it now?
 
This case would never make it to a courtroom, but it's good for the lulz and therefore deserves its place in the PMBD threat cabinet.  ;D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 August 22, 12:10:58
The bit on the end of the threat saying that they would recover legal costs from your company is that Pescado or are they trying to scare the web providers of pmbd into taking the whole  site down.
They're apparently trying to threaten to sue the Malaysians, yes.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 August 22, 13:14:37
Actually, the RIAA is suing people over teh intarwebz - but then again, they are actually a major coorporation.

And yes, in the States, employers must basically match the tax payments of employees, after a certain amount.  Even if they are contractors, they still would need to pay the taxes for monies they earn, and the contractoers [FAs] would need to as well, regardless.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 22, 13:33:14
They're apparently trying to threaten to sue the Malaysians, yes.

Well, that is interesting and sounds a bit futile.  Don't the Malaysians have an "Eh, you suck" attitude toward this kind of thing?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: brainiac on 2008 August 22, 15:29:31
That...worst legalese I've ever seen. That's not even up to par with E-Lawyer standards. I was expecting better from you, TSR. Much better. You insult the Crackerbox Courtroom.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 22, 22:23:03
I've already read the letter a couple of times but it still gives me epic lulz!  ;D

*mocks TSR*
o ya i iz gun go 2 da intrawebz cort cuz u stl r fylez & we pwn ur AZZZ!!!1111111111111!1!!1onehundredeleven


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 23, 00:00:28
Thing is, I thought an individual or company had to get the permission of the country/state they're trying to sue in order to even enter into it. Good luck, assholes! Of course, I'm not sure how that would apply in International circles, but then again, we all know that TSR is basically just a circle jerk to begin with, led by one of the biggest wankers on the net. Stand up and take a bow, Thomass! On second thought, don't, we can't be sure that your fly is zipped or not...


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Jess Maree on 2008 August 23, 07:23:01
/me plays her sarcastic symphony to show her deep concern

They're apparently trying to threaten to sue the Malaysians, yes.

Wait, wait, wait.

They want to SUE THE MALAYSIANS??

It boggles the mind...


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Plum on 2008 August 23, 08:08:57
Any lawyer that would pick up this case deserves all the bananas he can get out of those Malaysians!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: pixelated on 2008 August 23, 08:25:14
They're apparently trying to threaten to sue the Malaysians, yes.

Well, that is interesting and sounds a bit futile.  Don't the Malaysians have an "Eh, you suck" attitude toward this kind of thing?

Which is exactly why having the servers there is such a good thing.

I, too, am laughing hard at the fact that it wasn't signed.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: justso on 2008 August 23, 17:15:44
Before I even discovered this site I once read that Pescado runs a site based in a dubious country that is renowned for illegal practices, fraud and ripping people off. I thought oooooooohh choccie dubious.  But threatening to sue the Malaysians.  Definitely a sign that TSR suffers from delusions of grandeur also a tad schizophrenic (the constant changing from I to We in the threat) So basically the culprit is a 12 ish schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur who is into sewage  big time (up to his/her neck in crap) mmm wonder who that could be. Edit. Forgot to add a sim pimping ho.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 23, 18:21:35
Sue Malaysians? Roffle!

TSR, your lame attempt at a "zomg legul thret" is FAIL.   ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 August 24, 17:19:27
My lawyer thought the letter was even more hilarious than my playing the Sims. That's impressive.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: fway on 2008 August 24, 17:38:16
TSR, I hope they're doing this for our lulz. I mean, the EULA never changed. Silly Geese. Let's check out the Apartment Life EULA... whoever wrote that legal letter is blatantly lying to us, and we already knew that the EULA did NOT change.

Just as bad as saying:

<NO NAME WRITTEN> to us:
- we need ur monies pirates!
<NO NAME WRITTEN> Going to a judge:
- HALP! They has my stuffs.
Judge to <NO NAME WRITTEN>:
- YOU GET NOTHING! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR!
<NO NAME WRITTEN>
- buh I am EA friends. :(
Judge:
- Did you not read the EULA correctly?
<NO NAME WRITTEN>:
- It say not distrubute TSR stuffs!
Judge:
-It does not! They have every right to do it.
*<NO NAME WRITTEN> gets butthurt and storms out the courthouse.

... we'll be back in a moment ... (don't know what else to write)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: brainiac on 2008 August 24, 18:03:23
You, sir, are to blame for the wasted juice that just sprayed out of my nose! I demand compensation!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 24, 19:36:04
<lulzy post>


 :D

TSR always gets butthurt because they're so jealous of PMBD's epic win.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 25, 15:58:10
I always spell it kerfuffle.  :-\ Hahaha! He should play the sims and read the eula that came with freetime.  PC's in the shop at the mo' - but Sherrie has it - all hail Sherrie. http://www.sherriesim.com/site/info/news.html (http://www.sherriesim.com/site/info/news.html)

I also enjoy this quote:

Quote
I have since visited EA in Redwood Shores and had numerous meetings with the web and legal teams there.

Yet EA do nothing.
Yet EA don't change their EULA.
Yet EA don't even clear up the exchange.
No lawyer worth their salt would bother with this malarkey.



I hope when Apartment Life comes out, a kind pirate screenshots the EULA again, which will undoubtedly be the same.  :D I will do it if the compy is back.
kerfuffle.... yeah. TSR has lost there minds. Just a bunch of guttersnipes crying there little eyes out for money and a cookie. :P
   



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 25, 17:30:36
They can have cow cookies.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Requip on 2008 August 25, 17:41:34
This is hilarious, I've been hoping we'd get new stupid legal letters! I can't get over that after all this time, this paysite arguement is still going on.  ::) (or maybe TSR just thinks it is?) I'm pretty sure most people have moved on and everyone knows where the booty is.  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Silver Arrows on 2008 August 25, 17:52:04
Quote
I have since visited EA in Redwood Shores and had numerous meetings with
the web and legal teams there.

That TSR-EA dialogue in full:

(http://i38.tinypic.com/ay0i7q.jpg)
Thoma$: Can I haz permission to charge for contents, pleaze?

(http://i34.tinypic.com/2nukcgy.jpg)
EA: Yes of course you canz! Please leave a briefcase containing the $500k license fee in this dark alley here, thank you...


...sucker!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anyerfillag on 2008 August 25, 18:13:41
Fway: Love it all, but the Charlie and the Chocolate reference/line killed me :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 25, 18:26:42
Did you get a mental image of Gene Wilder screaming that line, too? I rolled!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 25, 22:39:35
LMAO @ Silver Arrows  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 26, 00:45:13
kerfuffle.... yeah. TSR has lost there minds. Just a bunch of guttersnipes crying there little eyes out for money and a cookie. :P

Question is why they lost their minds now?  I don't see anything special about now - and surely it would have been more advantageous to wait until after Apartment Life to see and crow possible new EULAs. NO COOKIE FOR TSR. Hope they cry their eyes out.  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 26, 02:39:17
I haven't been following TSR drama until lately so to me it seems they just lost their minds. Silly me.
P.S. Cookies were laced with cyanide.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 26, 03:02:09
I haven't been following TSR drama until lately so to me it seems they just lost their minds. Silly me.
P.S. Cookies were laced with cyanide.

 :D Then cookies for all!  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 26, 03:23:55
Fresh and strait from the oven Chocolate  chip cookies with special "BLUE" sprinkles.Made for TSR eat up.  :-X


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 26, 03:42:45
Fresh and strait from the oven Chocolate  chip cookies with special "BLUE" sprinkles.Made for TSR eat up.  :-X

Maybe to lure Atwat you should give her a cookie with Thoma$$'s face on it  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 26, 04:19:42
By special request from panthpirate a special cyanide Thomas cookie Atwat. Enjoy!!
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/kxmerune/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 26, 04:40:57
UGH! I don't think I ever wanna make or eat chocolate chip cookies again after seeing that...


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Markus on 2008 August 26, 04:44:36
That made me want to toss my cookies.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: fway on 2008 August 26, 06:28:53
Oh I hope Thomas didn't make it into the soylent green... *pukes...


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 26, 06:37:21
fway, your avi just undid the careful nurturing I've done of my stomach all day! That is warped in more ways than one, well done!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 26, 06:48:26
By special request from panthpirate a special cyanide Thomas cookie Atwat. Enjoy!!

Oh if I only I had my PC. I see that cookie nomming ThomAss' head.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: jilly on 2008 August 26, 06:48:55
I had to struggle to keep my Coke from splattering all over the place  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: brainiac on 2008 August 26, 07:30:49
You! You evil man! Why do you keep making me spill my beverages? This was hot tea!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 August 26, 11:35:50
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/deelink/wilder2.jpg)


I am always late for the Thomas Cookie and Chalie party....  :-*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 26, 11:52:43



I am always late for the Thomas Cookie and Chalie party....  :-*
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/kxmerune/picard-no-facepalm.jpg)
 ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 26, 22:55:25
LMAO. Wow, that is one disturbing cookie!  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: kenmtl on 2008 August 26, 23:43:46
(http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL646/2837408/19658330/331982306.jpg)
At least this dude leaves his name.


Dear <no name given>

Bite me!

Regards,
Everyone else


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: autumnrose on 2008 August 27, 00:05:39
By special request from panthpirate a special cyanide Thomas cookie Atwat. Enjoy!!
<snipped scary thomass cookie>
Ack! That kind of thing needs a warning. I almost killed my laptop.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 August 27, 02:30:58
OK, kids. EULA from install of Apartment Life. Note the date. Note non-commercial. Specifically, under 1A. "Any commercial use is prohibited." Also, from 15. "This License constitutes the entire agreement between you and EA with respect to the Software and supersedes all prior or contemporaneous understandings regarding such subject matter."

Quote
Date: December 12, 2007


ELECTRONIC ARTS
SOFTWARE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

This End User License Agreement ("License") is an agreement between you and Electronic Arts Inc. ("EA"). This License governs your use of this software and all related documentation, and updates and upgrades that replace or supplement the software and are not distributed with a separate license (collectively, the "Software").
 
By installing or using the Software, you consent to be bound by this License.  If you do not agree to the terms of this License, then do not install or use the Software. Section 3 below describes the data EA may use to provide services and support to you in connection with the Software.  If you do not agree to this use of data, do not install or use the Software. IF YOU INSTALL the Software, the terms and conditions of this License are fully accepted by you.
 
1. License Grant and Terms of Use. 

A. Grant. Through this purchase, you are acquiring and EA grants you a personal, non-exclusive license to install and use the Software for your personal, non-commercial use solely as set forth in this License and the accompanying documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this Agreement. Any commercial use is prohibited. You are expressly prohibited from sub-licensing, renting, leasing or otherwise distributing the Software or rights to use the Software, except by transfer as expressly set forth in paragraph 2 below. The term of your License shall commence on the date that install or otherwise use the Software, and shall end on the earlier of the date that you dispose of the Software; or EA's termination of this License. 

B. Copies. Our Software uses access control and copy protection technology. If you purchase rights to the Software using a digital distribution method (i.e. you download your Software from an authorized site), you may download the number of copies allowed by the Software's digital rights management from an authorized source in the time period(s) specified at the time of purchase. You may use only one copy of the Software at any given time. You are prohibited from making a copy of the Software available on a network where it could be used by multiple users. You are prohibited from making the Software available over a network where it could be downloaded by multiple users.  For more information concerning the digital rights management that applies to this Software, please review the purchase or other terms accompanying the distribution of the Software. Your license will terminate immediately if you attempt to circumvent digital rights management for the Software. 

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11.  U.S. Government Restricted Rights. If you are a government end user, then this provision applies to you.  The Software provided in connection with this License has been developed entirely at private expense, as defined in FAR section 2.101, DFARS section 252.227-7014(a)(1) and DFARS section 252.227-7015 (or any equivalent or subsequent agency regulation thereof), and is provided as "commercial items," "commercial computer software" and/or "commercial computer software documentation."  Consistent with DFARS section 227.7202 and FAR section 12.212, and to the extent required under U.S. federal law, the minimum restricted rights as set forth in FAR section 52.227-19 (or any equivalent or subsequent agency regulation thereof), any use, modification, reproduction, release, performance, display, disclosure or distribution thereof by or for the U.S. Government shall be governed solely by this License and shall be prohibited except to the extent expressly permitted by this License.

12.  Injunctive Relief. You agree that a breach of this License may cause irreparable injury to EA for which monetary damages would not be an adequate remedy and EA shall be entitled to seek equitable relief in addition to any remedies it may have hereunder or at law.

13.  Governing Law. This License shall be governed by and construed (without regard to conflicts or choice of law principles) under the laws of the State of California as applied to agreements entered into and to be performed entirely in California between California residents. Unless expressly waived by EA in writing for the particular instance or contrary to local law, the sole and exclusive jurisdiction and venue for actions related to the subject matter hereof shall be the California state and federal courts having within their jurisdiction the location of EA's principal corporate place of business.  Both parties consent to the jurisdiction of such courts and agree that process may be served in the manner provided herein for giving of notices or otherwise as allowed by California or federal law.  The parties agree that the UN Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods (Vienna, 1980) shall not apply to this License or to any dispute or transaction arising out of this License.

14.  Export. You agree to abide by U.S. and other applicable export control laws and agree not to transfer the Software to a foreign national, or national destination, which is prohibited by such laws, without first obtaining, and then complying with, any requisite government authorization. You certify that you are not a person with whom EA is prohibited from transacting business under applicable law.

15.  Entire Agreement.  This License constitutes the entire agreement between you and EA with respect to the Software and supersedes all prior or contemporaneous understandings regarding such subject matter. No amendment to or modification of this License will be binding unless made in writing and signed by EA.  No failure to exercise, and no delay in exercising, on the part of either party, any right or any power hereunder shall operate as a waiver thereof, nor shall any single or partial exercise of any right or power hereunder preclude further exercise of any other right hereunder.  In the event of a conflict between this License and any applicable purchase or other terms, the terms of this License shall govern.


Pub. Doc. No. 39301v1/Temp.Doc.No. 37026v14
Suck it, TSR.



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Tabby on 2008 August 27, 02:34:58
AHAHAHA!! As if they really thought they could scare us. I wonder what the reaction to the EULA will be now. Maybe that EA forgot to add "Except TSR, they can do what they want..." LOL


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: autumnrose on 2008 August 27, 03:36:39
OK, kids. EULA from install of Apartment Life. Note the date. Note non-commercial. Specifically, under 1A. "Any commercial use is prohibited." Also, from 15. "This License constitutes the entire agreement between you and EA with respect to the Software and supersedes all prior or contemporaneous understandings regarding such subject matter."

Quote
Date: December 12, 2007
<snip>
A. Grant. Through this purchase, you are acquiring and EA grants you a personal, non-exclusive license to install and use the Software for your personal, non-commercial use solely as set forth in this License and the accompanying documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this Agreement. Any commercial use is prohibited. You are expressly prohibited from sub-licensing, renting, leasing or otherwise distributing the Software or rights to use the Software, except by transfer as expressly set forth in paragraph 2 below. The term of your License shall commence on the date that install or otherwise use the Software, and shall end on the earlier of the date that you dispose of the Software; or EA's termination of this License. 
<snip>
Suck it, TSR.
Bwah!
Oh happy day! Rum for allz! *passes rum around*

There you go, T$R. You get nothing, you lose. Good Day Sir!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Panthpirate on 2008 August 27, 04:25:35
Wow, I actually like EA right now.

*slaps self* that felt better.  :)

I can imagine TSR sending another letter saying that the EULA has changed again:

Quote from:  NO NAIM MENSHUND
A. Grant. Through this purchase, you are acquiring and EA grants you a personal, non-exclusive license to install and use the Software for your personal, non-commercial use solely as set forth in this License and the accompanying documentation. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this Agreement. Any commercial use is prohibited. Esspt TSR cuz dey iz our palz lolololol ftw




Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dragonarts on 2008 August 27, 05:29:40
Quote
Date: December 12, 2007


ELECTRONIC ARTS
SOFTWARE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

...<snip>
 
By installing or using the Software, you consent to be bound by this License.  If you do not agree to the terms of this License, then do not install or use the Software. S



So what part of "bound by this License" did TSR not understand?
(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/8/26/128642883804440744.jpg)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 27, 06:04:38
From the look of it, the whole fucking thing.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Piratey on 2008 August 27, 09:00:17
Someone was saying that there's an "Arr Mateys!" cereal box in AL (as well as the MRTY love bed). Is this EA's way of suggesting they like what goes on here? I see no TSR references (unless the trash has been renamed or something).


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anouk on 2008 August 27, 09:16:59
So:
1. EA sent Thomas and Steve a SPESHUL copy of the EULA to shut them up.
2. Once again, as always, with no shame or regret, they are lying.

GUESS WICH ONE IT IS GAIS!!!!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 27, 09:28:00
? What about:

3. Steve and Thom Ass can't read.  :'(

Let's band together for The Sellers Reading Association.  Send monies nao! Help ThomAss and Steve read - or on your own head be it.

Won't somebody think of the paysite owners?!?!?!11!?!?!  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: justso on 2008 August 27, 09:43:36
I thought Filthypriest's avatar was his own.  When I saw the cookie I thought wow doesn't Filthypriest look like thomarse.  I didn't want to point it out incase I hurt his feelings.  I was wondering why I was the only one who could see the resemblance.  Just lurked in a different thread where his avi is mentioned.  I am so so sorry Filthypriest


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Jojoba on 2008 August 27, 10:30:53
Thank you for posting that Zazazu ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 27, 11:39:51

3. Steve and Thom Ass can't read.  :'(


I are confuzzled about the multitudinous EULA's myself.  Can someone either point me to a link or explain why there seem to be different EULA's or the history of the changes/nonchanges?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 27, 12:25:17
? What about:

3. Steve and Thom Ass can't read.  :'(

Let's band together for The Sellers Reading Association.  Send monies nao! Help ThomAss and Steve read - or on your own head be it.

Won't somebody think of the paysite owners?!?!?!11!?!?!  :D
I'll do a recorded reading of the EULA for thom and steve so there illiterate a$$e$ can understand that there business is a sham.
I thought Filthypriest's avatar was his own.  When I saw the cookie I thought wow doesn't Filthypriest look like thomarse.  I didn't want to point it out incase I hurt his feelings.  I was wondering why I was the only one who could see the resemblance.  Just lurked in a different thread where his avi is mentioned.  I am so so sorry Filthypriest
No problem, I was making fun of Thomas..HE LIKES "IT" HOT!!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dietofworms on 2008 August 27, 13:20:31

3. Steve and Thom Ass can't read.  :'(


I are confuzzled about the multitudinous EULA's myself.  Can someone either point me to a link or explain why there seem to be different EULA's or the history of the changes/nonchanges?

But are there really diffferent EULA's?  I think it's been consistent.  (Except for the speshul TSR struggling-reader one). 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ValancySterling on 2008 August 27, 14:03:55

3. Steve and Thom Ass can't read.  :'(


I are confuzzled about the multitudinous EULA's myself.  Can someone either point me to a link or explain why there seem to be different EULA's or the history of the changes/nonchanges?

But are there really diffferent EULA's?  I think it's been consistent.  (Except for the speshul TSR struggling-reader one). 

One of the free programs EA released, I believe it was its content manager one, had removed the part about commerical websites.  However, every EULA that's come with every other release--game, ep's, stuff packs, bodyshop, etc has included the copy that probits commerical use.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: kenmtl on 2008 August 27, 15:54:33
AL EULA

Thank you Zazazu. I think even Mr.<no name given> could understand that. If not maybe some collegues from <insert law firm here> could help. Or maybe even a visit to the library at <insert law school here> if there are too many big words. Otherwise it seems pretty clear that Mr.<no name given> is definitely doing some anal ventriloqy.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Steroide on 2008 August 27, 17:46:27

3. Steve and Thom Ass can't read.  :'(


I are confuzzled about the multitudinous EULA's myself.  Can someone either point me to a link or explain why there seem to be different EULA's or the history of the changes/nonchanges?
But are there really diffferent EULA's?  I think it's been consistent.  (Except for the speshul TSR struggling-reader one). 

One of the free programs EA released, I believe it was its content manager one, had removed the part about commerical websites.  However, every EULA that's come with every other release--game, ep's, stuff packs, bodyshop, etc has included the copy that probits commerical use.
But you couln't make content with the content manager. Just manage the content you already had on your compute.
So there wasn't really any need for a part about commersial websites... ::)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ValancySterling on 2008 August 27, 19:36:26

3. Steve and Thom Ass can't read.  :'(


I are confuzzled about the multitudinous EULA's myself.  Can someone either point me to a link or explain why there seem to be different EULA's or the history of the changes/nonchanges?
But are there really diffferent EULA's?  I think it's been consistent.  (Except for the speshul TSR struggling-reader one). 

One of the free programs EA released, I believe it was its content manager one, had removed the part about commerical websites.  However, every EULA that's come with every other release--game, ep's, stuff packs, bodyshop, etc has included the copy that probits commerical use.
But you couln't make content with the content manager. Just manage the content you already had on your compute.
So there wasn't really any need for a part about commersial websites... ::)

Exactly.  However, TSR claims that that version is the "correct" one and proves that EA approves of what they are doing.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Theria on 2008 August 27, 19:57:03
I'm of the belief that they just need a dumbed down version of it to understand. Those big words and legal terms are confusing to them.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Missbonbon on 2008 August 27, 20:07:30
mmmk Everyone I just bought apartment life and the EULA still states NON-COMMERCIAL USE and they have even changed it to where you cligh either yes or no instead of selecting I agree/I disagree.

So the EULA is still the same as it has always been.... and even if it did change for that one expansion pack, everything before, and everything that came out since it changed back is still in violation of the EULA. Not to mention TSR also violates other creators/companies EULA's.

Honestly they would be dumb to sue. Not only could free creators who have proof that their objects were stolen and uploaded to tsr and ignored when they asked to have said content removed, other companies would also be liable to get involved. After all a website as big as TSR not paying taxes and getting as much money a year as they do? Why wouldn't a large company say as Adobe get involved to get their rights paid to them? I mean yeah it would put a smear mark on Adobe, but they would make ass loads of money.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 August 27, 20:36:23
FilthyPriest, I sure hope that you can read that into Swedish for them, at least I think they are Swedes...


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Silver Arrows on 2008 August 27, 20:38:17
Are you sure TSR doesnt pay taxes? Cos it is owned by a registered company Ibibi AB (Dunno what Ibibi means..? Isaacson Bonham In Bed with.. oh.. fail)

Ibibi AB
Generatorhallen
826 30 Söderhamn
Sweden

Someone (I think it was here on PMBD) said that AB is the Swedish equivalent of Inc, or Ltd or summin like that. So maybe they do pay some tax??

Quote
Unfortunately, you are now one of the last hosts providing a safe haven for the self confessed pirates to promote the theft and distribution of  Sims 2 artist's intellectual property.
What about the theft of.. Gucci's trademarks? (http://thesimsresource.com/downloads/premium/sims2/search_gucci/)... or perhaps illegally profiting from Nintendo's name/logo/copyrighted designs (http://thesimsresource.com/downloads/premium/sims2/search_nintendo/)? Or maybe the Armani name (http://thesimsresource.com/downloads/premium/sims2/search_armani/)?? You can haz license for all those, yes, 'no name given' ???

Personally, I would LOVE to see this go to court. The resulting bad publicity for TSR when they lose would be the ultimate win!

Quote
So the EULA is still the same as it has always been.... and even if it did change for that one expansion pack, everything before, and everything that came out since it changed back is still in violation of the EULA.
Exactly! Everytime anyone has asked EA about charging for CC, they have always said it isn't allowed (except when I asked them and they said, 'We don't know what our position is, sorry'). No one has yet shown a letter from EA saying 'CC can't be charged for - except by TSR who have a license'.

That letter probably was written by anita after all.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 27, 23:11:03
FilthyPriest, I sure hope that you can read that into Swedish for them, at least I think they are Swedes...
But don't they teach english in swedish schools. I mean thought most countries of the EU teach it as a part of multiculturalism.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 August 27, 23:43:04
Don't know - my friend from Sweden speaks really good english, but he said he taught himself to play video games, and since he does web design type stuff, uses English more than Swedish.  To the point where he said he sometimes loses his Swedish....

On the other hand, had a friend from Quebec and he taught himself english too....didn't learn it in school


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 28, 00:20:15
I are confuzzled about the multitudinous EULA's myself.  Can someone either point me to a link or explain why there seem to be different EULA's or the history of the changes/nonchanges?

The EULA for Bodyshop hasn't changed as far as I know.  They might have included changes recently, but anything between Pets and basegame is the same as far as I recall (no PC to compare). There was only one bonafide change - the EULA for the custom content installer.  They took out "non-commercial" presumably because as lawyers, they were running over the EULA and realised that they just had a universal EULA - so they changed it to be non-specific in this case, as there is no content produced with it.   


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 28, 00:34:45
Thanks Cala-that is the brouhaha I remember.  I just couldn't recall the details, but I knew something happened with some EULA somewhere. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 28, 00:39:58
Thanks Cala-that is the brouhaha I remember.  I just couldn't recall the details, but I knew something happened with some EULA somewhere. 

 :-* Well that happened halfway between BV and FT - and TSR heralded the new EULA change as the wave of the future - as did a Maxoid on the BBS who said that it was all going to be changed, and what a surprise they were wrong.  I think what probably happened is the Maxoids asked the legal department to review the EULA - to try to get us and TSR off their backs and stop the debates on the BBS.  They reviewed, but found that it wasn't legally in their interests to sign their rights away to TSR.  So glad I got FT first, and showed off the unchanged EULA. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 28, 00:51:00
Honestly, at the time, I thought it had changed as well.  Now that my memory has been refreshed, there was some weird wording in that EULA that seemed to indicate that it was going to change.  In fact, Thomas personally PM'd me asking me to support this viewpoint.  At the time I did, because it did seem that way upon first read.  The sentence that got me was:

"Electronic Arts Inc. ("EA") grants you a non- transferable non-exclusive license to download and/or install and use one copy of the software tool and related data (the "Software") for the sole purpose of creating content for use in EA's The Sims™ family of games, in accordance with the terms below.


http://thesims2.ea.com/getcoolstuff/contentmanager_dl.php/ (http://thesims2.ea.com/getcoolstuff/contentmanager_dl.php/)

Of course, now I realize that the EULA's did not change for the actual homecrafter/bodyshop, which you would think would end the argument.  However, I would like to point out that while I might not be a supergenius, I am not stupid either and I was fooled by this for a time.  Just saying.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 28, 01:01:24
Of course, now I realize that the EULA's did not change for the actual homecrafter/bodyshop, which you would think would end the argument.  However, I would like to point out that while I might not be a supergenius, I am not stupid either and I was fooled by this for a time.  Just saying.

Well the Maxoids thought it was going to change - and they did actually change the EULA on the custom content manager. We were all waiting with baited breath to see what the EULA would say - so I don't think it's a testimony to anyone's intelligence, just to their psychic abilities. :P You, madam, are just not psychic.  :D

Overall though, I wasn't particularly worried, though as you can't retroactively modify an EULA - so even if it did change for Freetime, it doesn't alter what you agreed to with the base game.  So if it were changed, you could argue that the FT based content was allowed for sale, but base stuff still wouldn't be.  As creators tend to like a widespread appeal to their content, they would still try to make it base game - and thus the amount of FT based content would be small.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pooki on 2008 August 28, 05:00:13
And there was much rejoicing. ( and paysite butthurt)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: alia on 2008 August 28, 07:02:39
Are you sure TSR doesnt pay taxes? Cos it is owned by a registered company Ibibi AB (Dunno what Ibibi means..? Isaacson Bonham In Bed with.. oh.. fail)
Isaacson Bonham In Bed Intimately?  ;)

Ibibi AB
Generatorhallen
826 30 Söderhamn
Sweden

Someone (I think it was here on PMBD) said that AB is the Swedish equivalent of Inc, or Ltd or summin like that. So maybe they do pay some tax??


Yep, depending on the type of the company, AB stands either for Ltd or Inc, so if they have been able to register TSR as a company I'm betting they actually do pay taxes. What a pity we can't bust Thomass for tax evasion.  :-\

But don't they teach english in swedish schools. I mean thought most countries of the EU teach it as a part of multiculturalism.

Yeah. Since EU doesn't have one common language, all kids must learn at least one foreign language at school, in order to be able to communicate with other citizens of EU. Usually the language they are taught is English, but German and French are very popular as well.

Besides, Swedes should be able to understand something written in English, and usually if a program is localized for Sweden (=translated into Swedish) the EULA is also translated as well. Thomass and his internet lawyer are just bluffing/deluded/lulzy.

Don't know - my friend from Sweden speaks really good english, but he said he taught himself to play video games, and since he does web design type stuff, uses English more than Swedish.  To the point where he said he sometimes loses his Swedish....

Kids pick up a lot of English from the media, games and internet, but I'm betting your friend learned at least the basics at school. It's much harder to pick up a language (grammar and all) by teaching yourself, but since the kids spend so much time surfing the net, chatting, playing games and watching tv/movies, they usually think they taught themselves. However, if somebody gives you the tools of a language (grammar & basic vocabulary) it's much easier to learn stuff by yourself.

Sorry if I got a little preachy, I teach English for 6s and 12s, and this topic is close to my heart.  :)

I'm running a bit of fever, so if I sound self-righteous or do not make any sense, it's probably because my brain is not functioning properly. Sorry about that.  :)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dietofworms on 2008 August 28, 11:50:57
OT: Not to generalize or anything  :D, I'm always amazed at the language skills of Europeans, Israelis, etc., compared with north Americans.  It's relatively rare here to be fluent in a second language unless you're an immigrant or second generation.  Our schools tend to teach languages as if it's not important to learn them, because we are after all AMERICANS ::).    Alia, you seem to have perfect English.  And a lot of other people here from Europe and elsewhere do, too.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: cookiepirate on 2008 August 28, 17:25:47
They teach English here in The Netherlands as a required course, then you have the choice of another language - at least when my kids were in school here.  The English they teach is British English, which is different in some ways than American or Australian English.  They tried to make my kids take British English, and my daughter refused to go to class since she already spoke American English as a first language.  She saw no reason to study British English.  Finally, after several months, they let Dutch be her required language and she choose Spanish as the third (she can be pretty stubborn, have NO idea where it comes from).   ;)

My son, on the otherhand, saw it as a easy 10 (no letter grades here), and took the class. ::)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: alia on 2008 August 28, 17:50:13
OT: Not to generalize or anything  :D, I'm always amazed at the language skills of Europeans, Israelis, etc., compared with north Americans.  It's relatively rare here to be fluent in a second language unless you're an immigrant or second generation.  Our schools tend to teach languages as if it's not important to learn them, because we are after all AMERICANS ::).    Alia, you seem to have perfect English.  And a lot of other people here from Europe and elsewhere do, too.

Thankies, DoW.   :)
I'm supposed to be good at English, since I studied English as my major and trained as a translator/teacher. I'm no genius in languages, though, my German is passable but my Swedish is horrible. French I can understand, but I can't speak it. ;D

The trick is to start learning the language early. Here kids start their first foreign language when they are 9 and the second language when they are 11 or 13. All kids have at least 4-5 language lessons every week*, and by the time they graduate, their language skills are pretty good.

*If you want to, you can take additional languages at 14 and 16.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Lilyroseisapirate on 2008 August 28, 18:52:12
wish we would do something like that here in America. my grandpa was full blooded German, and what little German I know is from him. He always wanted me to learn it fluently as a 2nd language to keep up our German heritage. In the US, or my state at least, we weren't required to take a foreign language until highschool, and we only had to take 1 year of it. Our choices were very limited as well, Spanish or French. And since we have a higher Spanish pop where I live, I opted for Spanish. We also did not have to take a foreign language if we weren't planning on going to college. Its sad that we don't have a more diverse culture here in the US, I would love that. I do plan on my daughter having language lessons when she is old enough, her choice of course.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dusdeedawn on 2008 August 28, 20:01:36
Lilyrose, my oma is also full German, and I only know the same few words that most everyone else knows, it's sad. Truly.
But, I guess it wouldn't be fair to forget how many bastardized versions of English we have here in the states. People speak fairly well here in Alaska, but I know that there are some places in the states that have such a strong accent that it's damn near another language entirely. Just thought I'd throw that in there for consideration.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Dina D on 2008 August 28, 22:11:55

Yep, depending on the type of the company, AB stands either for Ltd or Inc, so if they have been able to register TSR as a company I'm betting they actually do pay taxes. What a pity we can't bust Thomass for tax evasion.  :-\


hmmm.... food for thought... maybe Atwat's hold over Thomas had something more to do with the running of the company....


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 28, 23:43:18
OT: Not to generalize or anything  :D, I'm always amazed at the language skills of Europeans, Israelis, etc., compared with north Americans.  It's relatively rare here to be fluent in a second language unless you're an immigrant or second generation.  Our schools tend to teach languages as if it's not important to learn them, because we are after all AMERICANS ::).    Alia, you seem to have perfect English.  And a lot of other people here from Europe and elsewhere do, too.

In my opinion, it isn't really fair to single out Americans like that as far as linguistic abilities are concerned.  I don't think the lack of fluency in a second language is because of the "we are AMERICANS" attitude.  First off, whether we like it or not, English is the main language for business, economics, science and international affairs.  Therefore, it is not as imperative that native English speakers learn another language as it is that someone learns English as a second language.  That might be wrong, but that is the way it currently stands.  If the main language for business or economics switches to Chinese, I think you will see a shift in focus for English speakers learning a second language.  Second, I don't think this phenomenon is limited to Americans.  I think (and I might be wrong) that the British and the Australians, who are also native English speakers, are also not famous for their wonderful multi-linguistic abilities. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 28, 23:56:10
I think (and I might be wrong) that the British and the Australians, who are also native English speakers, are also not famous for their wonderful multi-linguistic abilities. 

True.  Although there may be less resistance here due to the multicultural agendas - and due to the fact that we have a high proportion of imported people from lotsa countries.  I can swear in many languages, and know a little Spanish, a little Egyptian Arabic and passable French. My kids are learning Italian at primary school, and I'm unsure what they offer them at high school, as it varies from school to school.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: AW on 2008 August 29, 00:17:56
Since I am late to the party...."GO PES!"

Also, I cannot speak for other countries, however, all three of my children have taken Spanish for numerous years - 2 are fluent.  Now, the two older children are taking Latin and French.  I, however, still speak fluent Southern.  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: gyrobot on 2008 August 29, 00:31:41
The only problem I see is they think just because EA store is doing the whole "selling items for money" scam that now them Mother Scuppers can join in on exploiting the folks. My anwser to them? Take your lawsuit and use it as kindling.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 29, 00:59:40

True.  Although there may be less resistance here due to the multicultural agendas - and due to the fact that we have a high proportion of imported people from lotsa countries.  I can swear in many languages, and know a little Spanish, a little Egyptian Arabic and passable French. My kids are learning Italian at primary school, and I'm unsure what they offer them at high school, as it varies from school to school.

I don't know.  I haven't met with a lot of resistance.  Plus, the US is known as the melting pot.  We also have people from all over.  Maybe the main difference is that we encourage immigrants to become "Americanized"?  I am not sure what the Australian attitude toward that is. 

Schools here do make foreign language classes mandatory.  I took 2-3 years of French in HS and another year in college and another in grad school.  I do think it is best to start that kind of thing as young as you can manage, though.  I can read passable French, but I cannot go from English to French very easily, nor can I speak it well.  That is due to lack of use on my part rather than lack of effort of the educational system.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: LadyDea on 2008 August 29, 03:15:57
I'm not sure about the USA, but in Canada most schools offer French Immersion as English and French are our official languages. I was in French Immersion through kindergarten to twelfth grade and then I spent one year at a strictly French University (le college Universitaire de Saint Boniface), I am no longer attending because I'm heading towards a career as a Dental Hygienist and I won't learn that at St. B.

While I'm fluent in French, I would have loved to have picked up another language when I was a kid, but I guess I didn't really have means to do so since most of my relatives speak English or French, and I was never very close to my German relatives so I never really had a reason to. If I was confined to only understanding one language, though, I'd be really... sad.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 29, 03:20:12
In the US we are going to have to start teach spanish on a wider scale so that the latino population can join together more easily. I was hoping to get my hands on the Rosetta stone program for spanish, :P


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: kenmtl on 2008 August 29, 03:23:08
I don't think there's any single answer to that question. It seems to depend on many factors with the most prevalent being necessity. English has for whatever reason become an international language so for many people it's a necessity. I know many people here in Quebec and in France that speak little to no English. Most people in Canada outside of Quebec can't read or speak French, nor do they particularly need to. A few basic words or phrases learnt in school or heard through the media somewhere but that's about it.

I think in Europe it's more common to know more than one language simply because there's so much interaction for a small geographic region, and even then it's not particularly strong for the average person in even the larger countries. It seems to still depend on commercial necessity. The Brits are not known to be terribly multilingual and then of course the French just don't on principle alone. A few of the smaller countries have more than one official language (Belgium,Switzerland,Luxembourg, etc) so that what language you speak often just depends on whether you are at home or at work. You even have a little country like Belgium where it's Flemish on top  French underneath and they often don't know or more probably just won't speak the other language.

Personally I love knowing at least little bits of different languages. I think it's important to at least make the effort to be able to say please/thank you/hello in the language of the place you are visiting if it's foreign. It's take a minimum of effort and it's just a matter of respect. Beside you learn something new that's not going to hurt you.

I was in Beirut a couple of years ago and even tried to learn a bit of Arabic, which is a beautiful language, unfortunately I wasn't very successful. Luckily French as well as English are quite common there so I did fine.

I think learning a new language is an eye opening experience. It not just about the vocabulary or grammatical structures it's about history and custom. It's about people and their evolution. Where they come from, what's been there experience, what's important to them, how they've evolved as a society. Language is developed from everyday experiences, often very mundane things and often very extraordinary events. I spend everyday constantly flipping between languages depending on the person I'm talking to, and you don't just change words you change cultural references. It's the history of words and phrases that can take time to learn, but it's also by far the most interesting. There are certain words or phrases that I can't translate because the reference doesn't exist outside of the native language, so you find similar reference in the language you need. It's often not exactly the same but conveys the same sentiment.

Anyway long/short I think it's fun to expand your horizons.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Yaardarm Monkey II on 2008 August 29, 03:41:22
Speaking foreign languages can be really informative and helpful.

Like using cool phrases like:


I want to touch you in ways that ought to be illegal and make you bark like a dog in carnal pleasure.
English


Ich möchte Sie auf Arten berühren, die ungültig sein und Sie Barke wie ein Hund im sinnlichen Vergnügen bilden sollen.
German

Voglio toccarlo nei sensi che devono essere illegali e rendergli la corteccia come un cane nel piacere carnal.
Italian

or so Babelfish translates it...    :P


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: HugeLunatic on 2008 August 29, 04:15:10
In the US we are going to have to start teach spanish on a wider scale

This language is of little use actually where I live in the US.   :) Languages are also not required in the public schools here, which is just as well considering you'd have a hard time choosing the most appropriate.  And that is going to be quite different based on where you live in the country.  Where I live, Hmong would be the better choice, as that is the vast majority of immigrants.  The US has such a large variety of immigrants, that bring such a varied amount of languages, it would be hard to learn all of these.

Its a shame that language is not being passed down anymore here, my great-great-grandparents were full German, and my husbands great-great-grandparents full Swedish.  Yet neither of us know a single word.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 29, 04:18:33
I don't know.  I haven't met with a lot of resistance.  Plus, the US is known as the melting pot.  We also have people from all over.  Maybe the main difference is that we encourage immigrants to become "Americanized"?  I am not sure what the Australian attitude toward that is. 

I don't know enough about the US - but we didn't encourage "Australianisation" until recently (due to the Cronulla riots).  We only require that people learn English eventually - most refugees learn it when they get here from community organisations.  We also have entire areas with lots of multilingual content - whole suburbs with signs in Arabic or Mandarin.  Most of the time we encourage the sort of melting pot attitude.  


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: EmilyTwitch on 2008 August 29, 04:23:02
As for as the USA-immigrants-languages debate, I believe that if you move to a country and you intend to live there, you should do two things:

A.) Come there LEGALLY.

B.) Learn to speak whatever language is official there.

Living in California I've seen quite a few illegal immigrants (from Mexico and other places), and immigrants that come here legally. I've noticed one huge difference. The immigrants that are allowed to be here usually make an effort to learn english. They may not be fluent, but they are honestly trying. Almost all of the illegal immigrants that I have been in contact with have made little or no attempt to learn english, and do not care.

I don't think that we should have to put subtext in spanish on everything (grocery foods, street signs, etc) just because some people moved to this country and are refusing to integrate.

I also hate when Americans travel and expect everyone to know english.

Who's up for just bringing back latin and unifying the world??


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 29, 04:29:32
As for as the USA-immigrants-languages debate, I believe that if you move to a country and you intend to live there, you should do two things:

A.) Come there LEGALLY.

B.) Learn to speak whatever language is official there.

I'll be sure to extend your rhetoric to the Sudanese around the corner, who had to enter Australia without waiting for a license, because they were about to be massacred.   ::) You do know that it is not illegal to seek asylum due to international treaties under the UN - that's populist untrue crap. It is perfectly legal to go somewhere and then apply for asylum.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: EmilyTwitch on 2008 August 29, 04:36:02
Well if you're going to be killed then yeah, come on over. Just fill out the forms when you get here, mmkay?  ;)

I just meant the ones coming over because ... I have no idea why they come over. I guess Mexico is horrible? But I'm sure if they were about to be massacred the tourist business would have dropped and it would have made the news.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 29, 04:42:23
I just meant the ones coming over because ... I have no idea why they come over. I guess Mexico is horrible? But I'm sure if they were about to be massacred the tourist business would have dropped and it would have made the news.

I still fail to see how they're somehow in the wrong if they seek out a better life for themselves, and that you are somehow more entitled because you happened to be born in the country you're living in, and thus got automatic citizenship, no matter what your "quality" (which is what you're judging them on).


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Astonished lemons on 2008 August 29, 04:48:24
My dad and his family are from Mexico, and they visit there on ocasion (aperantly we still have aunts of some sort there) but illegal Immigrants bug the heck out of him because he and his family came here legally. They worked their buts off to become usefull members of society, and he berates people when they dont pay taxes. He's always giving little speeches to me and my siblings about how there needs to be stricter border control, how illegal immigrants are being hired so cheap that not only are they not getting any better standards of life, but normal people who need jobs, speak english and pay taxes who WANT to pick fruit end up in the poor house, and how he is in favor of the death penalty (He's also a republican).

People want to come to America because theres more money here. Mexico is fine, but the more south you go below that the wilder it gets. Some places are just like the old west. Some cops patrolling the borders between venesuala and Colombia kept stopping out car and hitting my aunt up for bribes in oder to pass.

I speak the kind of 'proper' spainish they teach in highschool because my dad and my aunts liked to talk behind out back in spainish when we were little, so they never taught us.
I cant form cognative sentences, but I can point out a boligrafo and a hoja de papel when I see them.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: EmilyTwitch on 2008 August 29, 05:06:21
I'm fine with them trying to make a better life, but they should still take the time to become legalized. It would make their life easier than having to worry about the law and such. Astonished, you were able to use more effective words.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Feverish on 2008 August 29, 05:52:37
Many of them don't have driver's liscenses or insurance. Many of them use other people's identities to work. They also get taken advantage of by employers because they are illegal.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ChaosInAMinor on 2008 August 29, 07:39:47
I wish speaking at least one other language was encouraged more in the US, but it does vary from place to place. I'm always amazed by my roommate. Her mom is Chinese and her father is Thai and both moved to the US from their respective countries, speaking Mandarin Chinese. Thus, my roommate grew up speaking Mandarin and only learned English when they threw her in an English speaking kindergarten out here in California. Her ability to speak both languages fluently is amazing...and the fact that she can switch so easily from each. She also learned a fair amount of French in high school and can say a few things in Thai. I'm honestly kind of jealous. I grew up in Iowa and the closest relative from another country is my great-grandfather that I've never met, so I speak English and very little Spanish from what I learned in high school.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dietofworms on 2008 August 29, 12:05:01
I am totally opposed to sanctions on illegal immigrants in the US.  The vast majority of people without green cards come here for the sole purpose of making enough money to support their families. Getting here legally is a long and involved process, and not everyone can do so.  The US is the richest country in the world--surely we can afford to give jobs, social services, education, etc. to people who have nothing.

I always think of the thousands of European Jews who were trying to get out of the way of the Nazis and died needlessly because no country would take them in. Including the US, which had quotas on Jewish admissions.  I hope we're a more compassionate nation than that now.

*gets off soapbox*



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 29, 12:20:30
As for as the USA-immigrants-languages debate, I believe that if you move to a country and you intend to live there, you should do two things:

A.) Come there LEGALLY.

B.) Learn to speak whatever language is official there.



I am not going to get into the illegal immigrant debate.  No one is going to change their minds on this issue based upon what I say.  I just wanted to point out that the United States does not have an official language.  That is actually under debate here, on whether or not we should have one. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 29, 12:21:35
I am totally opposed to sanctions on illegal immigrants in the US.  The vast majority of people without green cards come here for the sole purpose of making enough money to support their families. Getting here legally is a long and involved process, and not everyone can do so.  The US is the richest country in the world--surely we can afford to give jobs, social services, education, etc. to people who have nothing.

I always think of the thousands of European Jews who were trying to get out of the way of the Nazis and died needlessly because no country would take them in. Including the US, which had quotas on Jewish admissions.  I hope we're a more compassionate nation than that now.

*gets off soapbox*


That is a little over board dietofworms. Have you looked at our economy lately, I mean don't get me wrong I'm all for any one who wants a better life by coming here. BUT if we had a complete open borders policy the entire third world would be in the US. Its a balance between the jobs we need to keep HERE in this country and the number of poor souls looking for a brighter dawn.
The sad truth is the US's power is waning and will soon be behind China in most fields of demographics.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 August 29, 15:18:02
The big problem with immigration that affects us all is that illegals don't pay taxes, but often use public services that cost taxpayer money. I'm all for relatively free immigration, but the financials need to be re-evaluated. It's a big confusing mess to me, but the key, I believe, is actually in making the legalization process easier.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: cookiepirate on 2008 August 29, 19:36:43
Since I am late to the party...."GO PES!"

Also, I cannot speak for other countries, however, all three of my children have taken Spanish for numerous years - 2 are fluent.  Now, the two older children are taking Latin and French.  I, however, still speak fluent Southern.  :D

I speak fluent Texan, with 'Bama as a second language (never could get the hang of using "ill" to mean cranky or mad).   Of course, this makes me a southern bilingual.  ;D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: alliecat on 2008 August 30, 21:46:51
I tried to learn languages when I was younger. I took Japanese in high school and Spanish in college. I can only speak very little either... with terrible pronunciation. Calculus was no problem, but languages? Gah. Only test I've ever failed in my life was in Japanese. I wish I was better at it... I'm very jealous of my roommate who speaks fluent Spanish.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Souvenirs on 2008 August 31, 04:09:54
I took Spanish for six years, but I've never felt comfortable speaking it because I can't roll my rs. :-\  I'm not horrible, and I can still understand it, but I'm sure I have a really strong accent when I try to speak it.  I was glad I could proficiency out of it in college, because by my sixth year the tenses were driving me mad, and the speaking part was frustrating me.

I don't believe that people from non-English speaking countries know multiple languages because of some magical educational program.  If you live in Sweden, for example, but you want some contact outside of Sweden (whether you want to be a world-famous rock star or just browse a Sims 2 forum), you have to speak English.  If you live in Sudan, where there's a different dialect or language for every tribe in the entire country, you have to learn a common language, whether it be English, French, or Arabic.  You don't have much of a choice, whereas English speakers won't be hurt very often by only speaking English.  Some people are better at picking up language than others, but most people are bound to forget it when they're speaking the closest thing we have to a global language and rarely use the others.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SnarkyShark on 2008 August 31, 06:47:19
Who's up for just bringing back latin and unifying the world??

Who needs Latin when there's Esperanto. It will catch on eventually. Just you wait....

Also-

I was reading a biography of Ben Franklin a couple years back and discovered that, in the Pennsylvania of his day, it was the large number of German immigrants (legal and otherwise, I would imagine) that annoyed the hell out of him and a good many others. In particular, it was the German immigrant's insistence on speaking their native tongue in an English speaking colony. But, as it turned out, they (or more accurately their descendants) were eventually assimilated despite Ben's (not unreasonable) fears of impending cultural chaos.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 August 31, 08:24:16
The big problem with immigration that affects us all is that illegals don't pay taxes, but often use public services that cost taxpayer money. I'm all for relatively free immigration, but the financials need to be re-evaluated. It's a big confusing mess to me, but the key, I believe, is actually in making the legalization process easier.
Alternatively, we could get rid of these services which merely serve to drain taxpayer money. Without the welfare state, we have nothing to fear from immigrants.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 August 31, 12:34:12
The big problem with immigration that affects us all is that illegals don't pay taxes, but often use public services that cost taxpayer money. I'm all for relatively free immigration, but the financials need to be re-evaluated. It's a big confusing mess to me, but the key, I believe, is actually in making the legalization process easier.
Alternatively, we could get rid of these services which merely serve to drain taxpayer money. Without the welfare state, we have nothing to fear from immigrants.

Actually, if we put in laws like Canada has regarding the upward limit on how much drug companies can sell their drugs for, cut back needless services, we could make the needful services actually do something, and still be ahead.

But Americans for the most part would still have something to fear - most immigrants have something alot of us lost - a work ethic.  :-\


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 August 31, 13:22:57
Yeah, but see, *CANADA* doesn't have to worry about this sort of thing. CANADA doesn't share a border with a poor nation, so there aren't exactly tons of people running over there. Thus, they can afford to be a socialist nanny state and not be swamped by foreign freeloaders. Over HERE, I say we put up a work-or-starve policy and we'll quickly see who the REAL Americans are.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: FilthyPriest on 2008 August 31, 14:29:15
Screw you $hithead >:( No Pescado doesn't, leave him alone.He may be a carmudeon sometimes but he knows what he is talking about unlike you.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anyerfillag on 2008 August 31, 15:10:02
Note the person's sig - 'MATY Baiter' - so they've come from MATY just to bitch at Pes (bar their other post which was about the Evi fat skinny girl creations)...how charming  ::)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: kenmtl on 2008 August 31, 16:18:39
Why don't you just give them one of the states you're not really using like Wyoming or Oregon.?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 August 31, 16:39:31
Yeah, but see, *CANADA* doesn't have to worry about this sort of thing. CANADA doesn't share a border with a poor nation, so there aren't exactly tons of people running over there. Thus, they can afford to be a socialist nanny state and not be swamped by foreign freeloaders. Over HERE, I say we put up a work-or-starve policy and we'll quickly see who the REAL Americans are.

There's only that sort of policy for the poor in the US, although hopefully that will change (depending on who is elected and if they follow through with their promises **don't ask me which candidate I don't remember**).  The whole country subsidises huge corporations, farmers who pick crap places to farm/can't sell their shit because there's too much of it.

Perhaps there would be more room for socialist nanny state policies if the government stopped giving rich people money and applied it elsewhere.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Jojoba on 2008 August 31, 16:42:11
Screw you $hithead >:( No Pescado doesn't, leave him alone.He may be a carmudeon sometimes but he knows what he is talking about unlike you.

Lolz  :D FilthyPriest, Pescado is hardly going to go and cry himself to sleep because someone called him an 'asshole'...he likes butthurt, remember  ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SBNao on 2008 August 31, 18:08:12
Just to add a little about illegal immigrants that I'm not sure a lot of people know.

Illegal immigrants who work in the US help shore up the Social Security Trust Fund. They work, their FICA taxes got into it, but since they end up migrating or leaving the country before they become legal enough to collect benefits, it ends up going to American workers.

American workers who don't have enough American workers working to support the Social Security trust fund fully.

Now, granted, I'm not a big fan of illegal immigrants. This is just another way of pointing out how complicated the issue actually is and how an easy solution is not going to be found or be a good one considering how many different aspects of US life this affects.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: falln_angel on 2008 August 31, 18:13:50
Pescado is hardly going to go and cry himself to sleep because someone called him an 'asshole'

If we all started calling him a total sweetheart on the other hand... *shifty eyes*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 August 31, 18:22:21

Illegal immigrants who work in the US help shore up the Social Security Trust Fund. They work, their FICA taxes got into it...SNIP


Not the ones that get paid cash under the table, which happens quite often.  I don't know about the ones that have fake SS numbers.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SBNao on 2008 September 01, 00:04:12

Illegal immigrants who work in the US help shore up the Social Security Trust Fund. They work, their FICA taxes got into it...SNIP


Not the ones that get paid cash under the table, which happens quite often.  I don't know about the ones that have fake SS numbers.

It's the ones that work using fake or stolen Social Security numbers. It happens a LOT.  There are millions of dollars of 'unaccounted' for wages because of Social Security number fraud, most of those illegals. A lot of them use a fake number until their employer calls them out on it, move someplace else and use another fake number. Or a stolen one.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 September 01, 00:27:22
I looked this up because I hadn't heard of it, and you are right.  However, the illegal immigrants are still costing states more in education and health care than the federal government gets in SS input.  If they could take the faked SS taxes and put them into the states most affected, the states could recover some of the costs that the illegals are putting on the states budgets. 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/04/11/BUGUII6V1A1.DTL&type=business (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/04/11/BUGUII6V1A1.DTL&type=business)

"It estimates that school districts educate an estimated 1.8 million undocumented children. At an average cost of $7,500 per student, that amounts to $11.2 billion a year.

"That means roughly half of the education costs of undocumented immigrant children could be met if these Social Security funds could be redirected," the authors say. That's assuming undocumented workers contribute the full $7 billion to the trust fund, which may be an optimistic assumption."


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Ghrenn on 2008 September 01, 02:25:14
Is anyone else troubled by how entirely off-topic this discussion has become?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SBNao on 2008 September 01, 03:29:36
Um...yes. It's a lil off topic. Not by much. Ya know.  ;)

But in response to tomato, Social Security can't take the faked taxes and put them anywhere else but where they are.  When the taxes are taken out, they go directly into the Trust Fund (that part is handled by the IRS and what not).  There's no way of knowing that they're from people who are illegal or from stolen numbers.

The way they end up finding out that the money came from someone who worked illegally is when the information about the wages gets ported over to Social Security. Social Security keeps track of the Social Security numbers and how much the person using that number made. So when the other gov agencies are done putting the taxes into the Trust Fund, they send the information over to Social Security who then says, "Hey! This number isn't a valid number." or "Hey! This person is dead." So THEN they know that the taxes taken from those wages came from someplace funky. You might think that they could alert someone and shunt the money over at that point, but they can't.

Any funny wages that can't be put onto an actual number (ie valid or a living person) is put into a 'suspense' file. They leave the recording of those wages there because we have to allow people the chance to claim those wages. Let me give an example:

Say someone works for a company (Mary Jane) and they put the wrong Social Security number on their paperwork or someone in payroll mixes up a number. It happens all the time. That person works, makes, say 35,000. The taxes from that money get put into the Trust Fund. When the record of those wages gets sent to Social Security, the agency will realize that the number used doesn't really exist so they put the record of the wages in suspense. They can't take out the taxes, because the taxes were already alocated, and for all they know they were earned by someone who was actually legal in the country.

Years later when Mary Jane goes to retire, and the record of her working for those years is missing, Social Security has to go into that suspense file and put those wages back on her record. That means that the taxes rightfully belong in the Trust Fund to help pay for Social Security. So they can estimate that most of those wages belong to undocumented and illegal workers (and most do, IMO), but because they might POSSIBLY belong to a legal worker in the US, they can't shift the taxes over.

Does that make any sense?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Feverish on 2008 September 01, 04:19:10
I came across this the other day:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6814673/
My favorite part:
Quote
About 90 percent of the time in cases he's investigated, Utah's Hamp said, the numbers used belong to a real person. But even in the other cases, there's still harm done: the number may be issued in the future, meaning a baby may be born with a surprising financial past.
This happened to someone that I work with.  She only found out that someone was using her social security number when the IRS notified her saying she owed them money. Some lady in Kansas had used her social security number to work. I told her if it were me I'd be on a plane to Kansas ready to cut a bitch.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SBNao on 2008 September 01, 04:45:54
Yeah....like I said, the issue is complex. For example, some of those records where a person works thirty different places in a year is actually one person working thirty different places in a year; not thirty people using the same number to work.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 September 01, 06:19:48
Note the person's sig - 'MATY Baiter' - so they've come from MATY just to bitch at Pes (bar their other post which was about the Evi fat skinny girl creations)...how charming  ::)
It is a jackass, pure and simple. It was not wanted at MATY, either. (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,12820.0.html)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 01, 11:08:43
Is anyone else troubled by how entirely off-topic this discussion has become?

Nope.  This is how conversations move in real life, this is how Pescado's forums work.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 September 01, 11:16:27
Perhaps there would be more room for socialist nanny state policies if the government stopped giving rich people money and applied it elsewhere.
Or we could both stop giving rich people more money AND stop taking people's money. Imagine if you just KEPT more of what you earned and used it for yourself, instead of dumping it on a bloated governmental budget. It's a strange concept, aye, that we might be better off with LESS government everywhere, hrm?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 September 01, 12:43:11
 Fair tax! Fair Tax! (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Grotesque Sharonicle on 2008 September 01, 13:35:05
Perhaps there would be more room for socialist nanny state policies if the government stopped giving rich people money and applied it elsewhere.
Or we could both stop giving rich people more money AND stop taking people's money. Imagine if you just KEPT more of what you earned and used it for yourself, instead of dumping it on a bloated governmental budget. It's a strange concept, aye, that we might be better off with LESS government everywhere, hrm?

Pescado, calalily; you're such idealists.

But seriously; the world is degenerated. Do as many laws or anything that will help people in need as you wish, there will be always a twat politician, that will turn the flow into his/her pocket. Humans are evil and selfish. There's nothing we can do anymore. We're about 6.000 billion by now.... It's too late to fix things.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 01, 18:46:18
Perhaps there would be more room for socialist nanny state policies if the government stopped giving rich people money and applied it elsewhere.
Or we could both stop giving rich people more money AND stop taking people's money. Imagine if you just KEPT more of what you earned and used it for yourself, instead of dumping it on a bloated governmental budget. It's a strange concept, aye, that we might be better off with LESS government everywhere, hrm?

Damn libertarians.   :D I don't deny that almost every single government needs to cut their budgets and cut down on income tax.  But I don't think things are better off with less government - less government means more market, and the market just does not provide.  What is needed is more government accountability, rather than less government.  If there was more transparency, more accountability, then things would be a little better for those at the bottom end of the market.  Those are the people who need the help the most, and with the current USian subsidies, they're not getting it. 

I also don't think that USians would accept some of the over-budgeted things required to be slashed - because they don't understand why those particular things need to be slashed and wouldn't accept the areas of slashing.  Some of the things that need slashing are prison spending, police forces right across the US (you're insanely overpoliced and cop overrepresentation is about 1 to 6 of what you actually need) and decreased military spending.  These three things would send the public into such a tail spin of fear they'd all run around like chickens with their heads cut off, despite the fact that these systems are bloated, corrupt money pits designed to appease the public and keep a lot of people in work.

Fair tax! Fair Tax! (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer)

That purports to bring fairness by making a retail sales tax - but with the rise of China and India, and the possibilities of offshore holders of USian companies, that may not be such a good idea into the future.  Mainly because a large amount of revenue would be going overseas, and not in fact be spent in the US.  It also would mean wiping out tariffs - adding the possibility that a lot of American industries would die in the arse.

Pescado, calalily; you're such idealists.

Hmm. Don't know that I'm an idealist - I don't think I will ever totally get my way, barring going back in time to the mid 70s. :P I just have strong political views.  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anyerfillag on 2008 September 01, 22:29:20
It is a jackass, pure and simple. It was not wanted at MATY, either. (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,12820.0.html)

:D What a loser! Yawn, move on please - some lurker/newbie telling a board how to run themselves isn't going to make them liked or welcome!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 September 01, 22:57:16


Fair tax! Fair Tax! (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer)

That purports to bring fairness by making a retail sales tax - but with the rise of China and India, and the possibilities of offshore holders of USian companies, that may not be such a good idea into the future.  Mainly because a large amount of revenue would be going overseas, and not in fact be spent in the US.  It also would mean wiping out tariffs - adding the possibility that a lot of American industries would die in the arse.

That would depend.  Part of the fair tax" replaces federal income taxes including personal, estate, gift, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes." So, it will become cheaper to actually have businesses in this country instead of shuffling them off overseas.  Considering that many corporations don't actually pay some of the federal taxes, they just pass the money spent along to the consumer, prices for American goods will go down, not up, even with the embedded tax.  The government will make the same amount of money to fund programs, and we will have cheaper or at least the same price for goods.  Additionally, since you get your entire paycheck, plus a prebate based upon basic living expenses every month, hopefully people won't need welfare programs at the same rate they do now. 

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#2

Trade is a completely separate issue.  And the current tax system doesn't address trade problems anyway. 



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 September 01, 23:26:42
The problem is, it won't work that way - case in point - when Katrina hit, the gas/oil companies said they had to raise their prices because of the lack of New Orleans as a shipping hub [ which is odd, don't remember Coffee going up ], yet for that SAME PERIOD, they had the highest profit margins EVER.

Make it cheaper for the companies and they will just keep the prices up, and pocket the change, unless another companys comes along selling for less.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 September 01, 23:36:04


Make it cheaper for the companies and they will just keep the prices up, and pocket the change, unless another companys comes along selling for less.

Bolding is mine.  That is the crux. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: kenmtl on 2008 September 02, 00:24:36
Well that's basically the principle of the American Corporation. It's a model that is designed to place the emphasis on profit and shareholder gain, often to exclusion of all other considerations. CEO's are practically obliged by American Law to do whatever is necessary to make a profit even to the detriment of community interests if the two come into conflict. If you look at the history of the Corporation from it's inception and the principles it was founded on to what it has become, you understand why it doesn't concern itself with any citizens need that is not a shareholder. They exist to make a profit, they are obliged to do that under the law, they do not exist for the betterment of society as a whole. If that happens it's collateral. So in the end, any attempt to make it easier for them to do business is only going to increase their profit margin and put more money in the pockets of the people who hold shares because American Corporate governance law dictate that.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 September 02, 00:47:26
Well that's basically the principle of the American Corporation. It's a model that is designed to place the emphasis on profit and shareholder gain, often to exclusion of all other considerations. CEO's are practically obliged by American Law to do whatever is necessary to make a profit even to the detriment of community interests if the two come into conflict. If you look at the history of the Corporation from it's inception and the principles it was founded on to what it has become, you understand why it doesn't concern itself with any citizens need that is not a shareholder. They exist to make a profit, they are obliged to do that under the law, they do not exist for the betterment of society as a whole. If that happens it's collateral. So in the end, any attempt to make it easier for them to do business is only going to increase their profit margin and put more money in the pockets of the people who hold shares because American Corporate governance law dictate that.

All of that is exactly correct.  The debate comes in when people want corporations to exist for the betterment of society (whatever that means, and would be different depending on whom you ask).  I don't.  It is not their job to do that.  I want corporations to make the best goods/services for the cheapest prices and in the most efficient way possible.  Are there problems with this system? Yes.  Enron comes to mind, for one thing.  The housing/mortage fiasco is another.  Wall Street fucked that one up.  The problem is that there are NO real consequences to things like Enron or the mortage issue.  There should be.  CEO's who get caught still get these huge severance packages to resign.  That should be stopped and the money given back to shareholders or whatever.

/is impressed with Jake right now.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 02, 07:17:05
That would depend.  Part of the fair tax" replaces federal income taxes including personal, estate, gift, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes." So, it will become cheaper to actually have businesses in this country instead of shuffling them off overseas. 

It's not going to come down to the bargain basement prices that China and India offer - unless you slash the living standards of Americans.  No matter how cheap the taxation system makes things, China and India still win out on those fronts. So it won't in fact redress the amount of stuff produced in foreign countries (which is what tariffs do).

Considering that many corporations don't actually pay some of the federal taxes, they just pass the money spent along to the consumer, prices for American goods will go down, not up, even with the embedded tax. 

They removed a 22% sales tax on some items here and replaced it with a flat tax of 10% on everything (barring essentials) and that was heralded as somehow going to bring prices down.  But because the market is allowed freedom, they didn't actually ever come down in price.  The supermarkets absorbed that profit, and people's prices went up by 10%.

The government will make the same amount of money to fund programs, and we will have cheaper or at least the same price for goods.  Additionally, since you get your entire paycheck, plus a prebate based upon basic living expenses every month, hopefully people won't need welfare programs at the same rate they do now. 

Not necessarily - those on middle class incomes will have their quality of life go up substantially, but those on minimum wage will be in just less dire straits.  They may still require welfare services, particularly with all the extra money spent sending inflation through the roof.

Trade is a completely separate issue.  And the current tax system doesn't address trade problems anyway. 

Tariffs are taxes levelled by the government - so they do apply.  If they are wiped out under the fair tax system, it will be even cheaper to buy Chinese and Indian stuff than it is to buy American.

Make it cheaper for the companies and they will just keep the prices up, and pocket the change, unless another companys comes along selling for less.

That's the problem with the market - on essential items, there is no reason to be as competitive as possible - everyone needs them anyway.  Libertarians dream of a market that responds and undercuts itself - and I've yet to see this have an effect on companies.  Most are content (without government intervention) to fix the prices of things - after all - you're going to buy them anyway.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 September 02, 15:34:47
Good debate! I love a reasonable discussion with people I respect. I gotta run to work, but I wanted to address a couple of these points.  I am by no means a Fair Tax expert, though.  Please keep that in mind.  I might make mistakes that DO NOT represent what the Fair Tax says, only my understanding.  Some of my responses will be out of order as the nature of the conversation dictates. 


It's not going to come down to the bargain basement prices that China and India offer - unless you slash the living standards of Americans.  No matter how cheap the taxation system makes things, China and India still win out on those fronts. So it won't in fact redress the amount of stuff produced in foreign countries (which is what tariffs do).
 

"Because the FairTax is automatically border adjustable, the 17 percent competitive advantage, on average, of foreign producers is eliminated, immediately boosting U.S. competitiveness overseas. American companies doing business internationally are able to sell their goods at lower prices but at similar margins, and this brings jobs to America.

In addition, U.S. companies with investments or plants abroad bring home overseas profits without the penalty of paying income taxes, thus resulting in more U.S. capital investment.

And at last, imports and domestic production are on a level playing field. Exported goods are not subject to the FairTax, since they are not consumed in the U.S.; but imported goods sold in the U.S. are subject to the FairTax because these products are consumed domestically."


This is from FairTax.org.  I have read the original book but not the follow-up one, which I should in order to respond intelligently.  While I see your point with cheaper labor and no one can beat .50 cents an hour or whatever stupid wage some countries pay, the fact that exported good are not subject to the Fair Tax, while imported goods are will help even things out. 

They removed a 22% sales tax on some items here and replaced it with a flat tax of 10% on everything (barring essentials) and that was heralded as somehow going to bring prices down.  But because the market is allowed freedom, they didn't actually ever come down in price.  The supermarkets absorbed that profit, and people's prices went up by 10%.
 

The flat tax and the fair tax are not the same thing.  Did you also remove any kind of government income tax? Did they also remove corporate taxes, social security taxes, gift taxes, etc?    I don't know how the Australian tax system is set up. 

Not necessarily - those on middle class incomes will have their quality of life go up substantially, but those on minimum wage will be in just less dire straits.  They may still require welfare services, particularly with all the extra money spent sending inflation through the roof.

I didn't say that welfare programs would be eliminated, just that perhaps less people would need them or need them for less time.  The Fair Tax is not supposed to get rid of welfare, just provide a different way of funding welfare and other government programs that eliminates the need for the IRS (a bunch of money will be saved per year just getting rid of that dinosaur).  The fair tax only taxes on what you spend, not on what you earn. In fact, according to this blog, the poor come out much better under the Fair Tax system than the current American tax system:

http://fairtaxblog.blogspot.com/

Tariffs are taxes levelled by the government - so they do apply.  If they are wiped out under the fair tax system, it will be even cheaper to buy Chinese and Indian stuff than it is to buy American.

I know what tariffs are.  I don't think they are wiped out by the Fair Tax, but see my response above.  Imported goods will be taxed, exported goods will not.

 It is cheaper to buy Chinese stuff now, including all the lead and formaldehyde they include in their products. 

That's the problem with the market - on essential items, there is no reason to be as competitive as possible - everyone needs them anyway.  Libertarians dream of a market that responds and undercuts itself - and I've yet to see this have an effect on companies.  Most are content (without government intervention) to fix the prices of things - after all - you're going to buy them anyway.


On essential items, you won't be taxed.  There is a monthly prebate issued to every person with a SS number to cover those expenses, based upon the "Department of Health & Human Services’ poverty level guideline multiplied by the tax rate". For example, as a single person, I would get a $199 prebate check each month in addition to keeping my entire paycheck.  A couple with two children would get a $537 dollar prebate check every month.

Additionally, business to business purchases for production of goods and services are also not taxed, driving the cost of production down further.  I cannot imagine why this would not impact the final price of new goods.  Used good are not taxed at all! The tax is paid once on new goods and nothing on used goods.  So, if I can buy something used with no tax those that make new goods would want to be competitive with that certainly.

Markets will undercut themselves if left alone.  Part, and not all,  of what keeps prices high are the stupid taxes the government imposes on businesses (that the government wastes horribly, but that is another topic) that they, in turn, pass along to the consumer. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 02, 17:30:37
Good debate! I love a reasonable discussion with people I respect. I gotta run to work, but I wanted to address a couple of these points. 

Me too - and I'll wait for ya.  :D

"Because the FairTax is automatically border adjustable, the 17 percent competitive advantage, on average, of foreign producers is eliminated, immediately boosting U.S. competitiveness overseas.

Well the problem becomes when you enter into foreign markets - you have a free trade agreement with Australia (which makes our situation better, moreso than yours, as the US has already broken into the Aussie market, but Aussie products found the tariffs to stifle their trade), but according to this website (http://www.export.gov/fta/) you don't have free trade agreements with anyone in Europe.  That means that in order to protect their own industries, they have tariffs.  That therefore means that whatever percentage they place on foreign imports removes any advantage that you have.  If they find that they're being less competitive, they'll just raise the tariffs on the US imports - so there will be no way for foreign imports to kill off their industry.

In addition, U.S. companies with investments or plants abroad bring home overseas profits without the penalty of paying income taxes, thus resulting in more U.S. capital investment.

The changed taxation system in the US would not oblige other countries to remove their taxes - there would be no way possible to say that if Coca cola Amatol resides largely in the US, they don't need to pay Australian taxes and worker entitlements. So I don't see how that is going to make "large profits to bring home".

While I see your point with cheaper labor and no one can beat .50 cents an hour or whatever stupid wage some countries pay, the fact that exported good are not subject to the Fair Tax, while imported goods are will help even things out. 

Ah - but that's the issue you see - tariffs make the prices comparable.  As I've found that the Fair Tax system is going to keep tariffs, that just means a whole chunk of bureaucracy for the taxation system, and doesn't really cut the amount of bureaucracy.

They removed a 22% sales tax on some items here and replaced it with a flat tax of 10% on everything (barring essentials) and that was heralded as somehow going to bring prices down.  But because the market is allowed freedom, they didn't actually ever come down in price.  The supermarkets absorbed that profit, and people's prices went up by 10%.

The flat tax and the fair tax are not the same thing.  Did you also remove any kind of government income tax? Did they also remove corporate taxes, social security taxes, gift taxes, etc?    I don't know how the Australian tax system is set up. 

The point was not about how similar the taxes are, but rather that the market does not pass on these savings (and with no business tax on profit and no repercussions why should they) regardless of the good intentions of the government.  They took away the 22% tax on many items, and replaced that tax with a 10% tax, and the price didn't go down.  That shows that the market doesn't respond automatically - it works to make profits and keep those profits, rather than pass on savings. 

I didn't say that welfare programs would be eliminated, just that perhaps less people would need them or need them for less time. 

No, but I don't think it will make much of a difference.  Inflation at all this increased spending (because more money means more spending) will raise the cost of living.

The fair tax only taxes on what you spend, not on what you earn. In fact, according to this blog, the poor come out much better under the Fair Tax system than the current American tax system

Well, I entered my own meager details into the Fair Tax calculator - based on what I earn and pay in taxes - I came out with $10,000 more than I ever actually earn - meaning that the federal government would be giving me $10,000 and I would be paying no taxes.

I know what tariffs are.  I don't think they are wiped out by the Fair Tax, but see my response above.  Imported goods will be taxed, exported goods will not.

It is cheaper to buy Chinese stuff now, including all the lead and formaldehyde they include in their products. 

Well then, they're not wiping out all taxes and putting up a fair tax - they're replacing one system of taxation for another.  That doesn't mean less bureaucracy and more savings - it means "here comes the new boss, same as the old boss". I looked around, and the Fair Tax system does keep tariffs, so some bureaucracy will be required for that, but one of the disturbing things is the increased border tariffs - here (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_askanswer_bordershopping) it describes how anything you bring into the country will now require taxation.  So that increases a whole lot of bureaucracy for those who go to different countries (boy if you think your airport trip takes a long time now, wait until you get fair tax).
 
Agreed about the Chinese stuff.  :D But that doesn't mean no one will buy it.

On essential items, you won't be taxed. 

But that doesn't mean prices will be cut - the market doesn't respond like that.

Additionally, business to business purchases for production of goods and services are also not taxed, driving the cost of production down further.

That means a whole new set of bureaucracies for giving back their spending - so the IRS instead of focusing on employer garnished wages will be focusing on the thousands of business transactions needing refunds.

I cannot imagine why this would not impact the final price of new goods.  Used good are not taxed at all! The tax is paid once on new goods and nothing on used goods.  So, if I can buy something used with no tax those that make new goods would want to be competitive with that certainly.

Used goods are already cheaper than new goods - this does not make new goods more competitive.  And the Fair Tax website glossary states that it is only considered "used" once Fair Tax has been paid on an item - meaning that when the changeover happens, used goods will go up by the FairTax percentage, and this item will then need a paper trail to ensure that the Fair Tax has been paid on it.  Sounds like more bureaucracy to me.

Furthermore, from the FAQ - No state is required to repeal its income tax or piggyback its sales tax on the federal tax. Then there will be two taxes on sales - rather than one.

Markets will undercut themselves if left alone.  Part, and not all,  of what keeps prices high are the stupid taxes the government imposes on businesses (that the government wastes horribly, but that is another topic) that they, in turn, pass along to the consumer. 

Ah, the heart of the libertarian belief - that the market, if left alone, will perform like a little lamb.  :D I've heard that claim many many times - and have yet to see it actually happen.  The market over time increases its ferocity and need for input.  It is designed to profit, with no other concerns.  In a consumerist society where there is no alternative (you can't grow your own corn etc. if you expect to have a comparable lifestyle with your neighbour) then consuming is what you do.  Why would they cut their prices for you, when they know you have no alternative? Answer is that they don't.

Case en pointe:

Here, banks were deregulated in the 1990s - with the promise that the market would undercut itself.  No dice.  Most people now pay monthly fees on bank accounts (unheard of when we had a government supported bank), and you're hard pressed to find a bank that doesn't charge a fee - in fact, I have found none.  Banks check out what other banks are doing and don't put their prices down, or stay account keeping fee free - they match with their competitors, and soon you have no choice. Corporate spies make sure that they know what the competitor is doing, and don't try to do much if they already have a market.

Not to mention inflation (surely destined to go up with all this increased spending) will drive those prices sky high.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 02, 20:22:24
I encourage any Americans to check it out, do a little research (especially the Supreme Court cases supporting it), and decide if you think it's legit or not.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/index.html

If it's not too off topic  ;D, I would appreciate it if those who check it out comment about it (Or can I start a thread about this here?).

Probably wouldn't be a better idea to start a thread - we can just segue into other topics on Pescadoesque forums.

As to the actual subject, the research (small amount in a short time) suggests that the Supreme Court has previously rejected these arguments. If an attempt is made to claim sovereign citizenship, the person often ends up with a large tax bill and a large law bill related to court costs. This is demonstrated here  (http://www.quatloos.com/taxscams/protcase/house2.htm), here (http://www.quatloos.com/taxscams/protcase/schiff.htm), here (http://www.quatloos.com/taxscams/protcase/mckinney.htm) and here (http://www.quatloos.com/taxscams/protcase/becraft.htm) with court documents.
 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 September 02, 20:36:50
The only real way to get back to the original constitution is for one of several things to happen...

1> Actually have people elected who aren't being put there by the corporations, and who actually care about the people.
2> Another Revolution
3> Something else entirely.

The point is, do we really want it back?  Yes, in some ways it was a pretty solid document - and it would be good to feel like the Bill of Rights was actually enforced.

On the other hand, according to the constitution, only landowners could vote, only men could vote, even those who could vote didn't actually have a say in who was persident....Heck, there was a reason they put in the provisos for amendments.  Some were bad, but for the most part, they've been pretty solid too.

And while I think the tax system is fubared, its not specifically because of incometax - rather its because the income tax is not proportional across the classes.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: missnaughty on 2008 September 02, 23:27:18
 ;D  OMG that too funny to read, I mean they dont have a leg to stand on, EA did not say anything like that, and they certainly never said they supported TSR in any way.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Ry on 2008 September 02, 23:47:03
Quote
Pescadoesque

Perfect name for a Sims Strip Joint.  ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: kenmtl on 2008 September 02, 23:48:09
Quote from: calalily
Quote from: tomato
Quote from: calalily
Quote from: tomato
Quote from: calalily
Quote from: tomato

You guys are hot!

*and yes I mean that in the sexy time way*



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 03, 06:05:33
Quote
Pescadoesque

Perfect name for a Sims Strip Joint.  ;)

Ew. Pescado and strip joint should not be in the same sentence - he's like my Dad.  :o

You guys are hot!

*and yes I mean that in the sexy time way*



Feeling is mutual funnyman.  :-*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 September 03, 15:38:23
I bet my dad went to strip joints - he was a dirty old man, and one of the nicest people ever to walk the earth.

I try to be like him :)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paleoanth on 2008 September 03, 17:52:01
I have more to say, but I gotta run and do some work stuff.  I hate having to work.  But I want to just quickly hit this one thing as it may save a bunch of time:


Well then, they're not wiping out all taxes and putting up a fair tax - they're replacing one system of taxation for another. 

That is exactly right! In fact that is the point of the Fair Tax.  It is not so much tax reform as it is tax replacement.  They are not saying to get rid of taxes, as that would be dumb, but to tax in a more fair way than the current system does.  I really don't understand some of the protests (not yours, I get what you are saying) that some people have on this.  This way everyone gets taxed based upon what they buy.  The rich, who buy more expensive things will pay a higher tax.  No loop holes.  Food and essentials are not taxed at all, through the use of the prebate.  No tax code, no IRS.  In fact, the 16th amendment] (http://www.renewamerica.us/issues/ron_paul.htm) would have to be repealed before this can work.  The IRS goes away.  Probably my favorite part of this proposal.

I will address some other stuff soon.  The above quote made me think that you thought I was supporting the wipe out of taxes.  Maybe I was just not clear.  But, maybe this clarifies things? I don't like the way the current system works, and frankly, almost anything would be better.  A flat tax would be better than what we have.  What we have is full of fraud, loopholes and waste.  Not that the government wouldn't waste any taxes they get.  Sigh.

You guys are hot!

*and yes I mean that in the sexy time way*


We're too sexy for these posts, too sexy for these posts, so sexy we coast.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 September 03, 20:03:28
Who's idea was income tax in the first place? Is it too late to burn them in effigy? For some reason I want to think it was Benjamin Franklin and if it was, well, that particular invention was a solid lead clinker.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: RayvLil on 2008 September 03, 20:14:38
Who's idea was income tax in the first place? Is it too late to burn them in effigy? For some reason I want to think it was Benjamin Franklin and if it was, well, that particular invention was a solid lead clinker.

I'm not sure who was the man that came up with it. I do remeber something form highschool in that at one point, giving money to the government to fund things like a military and government programs was completely up to the person. It was only when they realised no one wants to give their money to governent willingly that it was decided you shouldn't be given a choice about it.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 03, 23:46:03
I have more to say, but I gotta run and do some work stuff.  I hate having to work. 


I'll wait for ya - until you have time off on the weekend etc.  :-*


Well then, they're not wiping out all taxes and putting up a fair tax - they're replacing one system of taxation for another. 

That is exactly right! In fact that is the point of the Fair Tax.  It is not so much tax reform as it is tax replacement.  They are not saying to get rid of taxes, as that would be dumb, but to tax in a more fair way than the current system does.  I really don't understand some of the protests (not yours, I get what you are saying) that some people have on this.  This way everyone gets taxed based upon what they buy.  The rich, who buy more expensive things will pay a higher tax.  No loop holes.  Food and essentials are not taxed at all, through the use of the prebate.  No tax code, no IRS.  In fact, the 16th amendment] (http://www.renewamerica.us/issues/ron_paul.htm) would have to be repealed before this can work.  The IRS goes away.  Probably my favorite part of this proposal.

But they'd still be the IRS - they'd just change their name and administer the new Fair Tax. It isn't going to produce less bureaucracy to shift the burden of the tax to sales tax - just now they will hound you at work (if you work in any kind of selling capacity). They'll also harass you if you go out of the US - instead of submitting a tax return every year, you'll be submitting every time you leave the country.  No more cheap Mexican holidays, no more Canadian drugs. They'll also be monitoring all mail and incoming goods to make sure you'll be paying taxes on them too.  IRS will be way more pervasive and involved in your lives, except they'll be called something like FTA (Fair Tax Assessment).

It all presumes that the rich spend more in the US - when in order to evade most tax all they have to do is move to Monaco and stop paying all US taxes (Monaco has no tax for the rich IIRC) so that there's a huge monetary drain for the US. 

**Bear in mind here that I have never been harassed by the IRS, and never will be with the lack of medical care in the US, as I don't plan to move there if I brain-drain (this refers to the phenomenon of educated peoplez moving overseas from Australia - a serious concern to the point that I have already had one chick in a hairdresser beg me not to leave Oz). I'm going somewhere with socialist policies and free health care for all like France  :P **

I don't like the way the current system works, and frankly, almost anything would be better. 

Needs MOAR GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION.  :P


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 September 03, 23:53:03
IIRC the IRS and the income tax was 1930s, during the great depression.  So many people were in bad straits that something had to be done quickly just to make sure folks had food and a place to live.  So, Social Security and the IRS came to be - I could be wrong, but I'm sure it wasn't older than that.  The founding fathers had us with very little national taxes outside of trade tariffs - most early taxing was on a state level.

The problem with Fair Tax is this - rich people don't buy nearly as much - they already have what they want.  IT might help in the long run, but right now, it'd be the middle class bearing the brunt because we buy more than any other class. [ Beyond food ]


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 September 04, 01:45:01
Just once, I would love to be rich for a few months and get ahead on bills and such. I'd love not to have to worry about rent being covered, utilities being paid for and food stocked in the house. It would be pure bliss to know that the luxuries are provided for and the fun stuff won't be taken out of the budget because movies is just too damn expensive to rent/buy. It would be heaven to be able to do whatever we wished because we had the money to pay for. But then again, that would make me like Paris Hilton and I find that I like having a sense of reality and responsibility.

I guess it would just be nice if the people that spent the money on the bling and the toys and the unneeded shit had to pay more in tax on them. The working class pays much more than the playing class and they need their asses kicked because of it... Oh well, the world isn't fair and it's never going to be. The only thing that is fair, most of the time, is death. No one can escape that, they can only postpone it for a time, but eventually, everyone gets claimed by the Reaper. Sure, they might get a better funeral and casket, but who cares if you have a mink-lined coffin? :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: snoringunicorn on 2008 September 04, 02:03:35
Who's idea was income tax in the first place? Is it too late to burn them in effigy? For some reason I want to think it was Benjamin Franklin and if it was, well, that particular invention was a solid lead clinker.

That would be William Pitt the Younger, Prime minister of the UK in the 1790's, in order to raise money to pay for the war against the French. Bit late for the effigy burning, you'd have to dig him up first.....

 :D :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 September 04, 02:44:38
That is exactly right! In fact that is the point of the Fair Tax.  It is not so much tax reform as it is tax replacement.  They are not saying to get rid of taxes, as that would be dumb, but to tax in a more fair way than the current system does.  I really don't understand some of the protests (not yours, I get what you are saying) that some people have on this.  This way everyone gets taxed based upon what they buy.  The rich, who buy more expensive things will pay a higher tax.
I like this idea a lot, because I'm a complete and utter miser, and under this plan, my total yearly expenditures are less than even the prebate. Of course, I don't really pay much in the way of taxes NOW, either, hidden, or otherwise, because I don't buy stuff. The depths of my cheapskatery have to be seen to be believed.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 September 04, 05:46:35
I wouldn't have to dig him up to burn him in effigy, just make a likeness and burn it is all. And Pescado, I take it that you make your own lye soap for washing? That would fit your miserly ways... Fat, wood ashes and a few other things will get you a brew that will clean anything and take the skin off of your bones if you aren't careful.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: kenmtl on 2008 September 04, 15:59:11
Yanno, surprisingly I don't have a fundamental problem with paying taxes but, I'm a bit of socialist anyway. I'm totally for people having more money in their pockets however I'm also totally for people having the right to be sick or injured and being able to go to a hospital no questions asked. Every society needs all classes of people to function properly and autonomously. Some one actually needs to be in the factories making the cheap competitively priced goods so that someone else can sell it to you. Otherwise you become dependent on a foreign workforce, which is dependent on that governments policies, which then brings into play your governments foreign policy, and quite frankly we all know where that ends. The more you can't provide for you and yours the more you have to ensure that someone else is. If you want to be a self sufficient nation someone needs to pay for that.

My issue with taxes is what happens to the money once it leaves my hand. That's an issue of responsible gouvernment. I don't mind paying my share as long as I know that everyone is paying their share and that the money once collected it's being used correctly. That's what elections are for. I know that's simplistic but, basically that's the run down. I think that Americans have a point of view that taxes are anathema to a free society. I think the opposite is true. I think the current state of your economy shows that, I think the quagmire that is your foreign policy shows that, I think the mess that is your domestic shows that. It's not about more or less taxes, it's about what kind of society you want to live in. It's about what you value as a people and a nation. I think it's about looking at the state of your society from the ground up and deciding whether or not it's actually working for you. All of you. Tax reform only one part of it unfortunately.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anyerfillag on 2008 September 04, 16:20:32
I'm not up on taxes and such, but I know this will getting more than a few tongues waggling in England:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7594469.stm

Alex Salmond, First Minister for the Scottish Government is planning to scrap the council tax in 2009 and replace it with one based on ability to pay and, to quote, "would lift 85,000 people from poverty and save the average Scottish family between £350 and £535 per year."

This sort of action has been happening a lot recently; Scotland (my home country) slowly seems to be aiming for independence and to break away from the UK. This won't do any good to decrease resentment and hatred from some England people who feel that Scotland are doing more for its people then parliment in London and that they feel England would have to foot the bill for losses from such things as the council tax.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 September 04, 16:32:05
I wouldn't have to dig him up to burn him in effigy, just make a likeness and burn it is all. And Pescado, I take it that you make your own lye soap for washing? That would fit your miserly ways... Fat, wood ashes and a few other things will get you a brew that will clean anything and take the skin off of your bones if you aren't careful.
Soap? Washing?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 September 04, 17:27:26
BATH TO PESCADO!!!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 September 04, 23:01:43
I wouldn't have to dig him up to burn him in effigy, just make a likeness and burn it is all. And Pescado, I take it that you make your own lye soap for washing? That would fit your miserly ways... Fat, wood ashes and a few other things will get you a brew that will clean anything and take the skin off of your bones if you aren't careful.
Soap? Washing?

Oh don't even joke about not bathing....I have to deal with people who honestly believe that unless they see lice crawling on their body, they won't even BEGIN to think about personal hygene. It's so fucking disgusting.
I had to work 8 hours with a co worker who wears the same jeans every day. Every day. Wether he is at work or not, the smell those things produce will bring tears to your eyes and gags to your throat.
I have tried every possible hint and he STILL insists it's random customers not him. How many random customers can you have, that all smell like a combination of baby poo, burnt sugar and fart? I mean come on!!!

/rant

I love the smell of clean! Clean people FTW! Bathing is a pleasure not a chore!!!
:) I know you guys are kidding.. but I was so traumatised yesterday, I kept spraying perfume around me and he STILL didn't get it. What's a polite way of saying "Dude you stink, get away from me, stand over there. And please bathe tomorrow or at least change your pants. Do me and your own self appearance a favour"

I mean there is no nice way of saying it. *shrugs*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: minionsRmine on 2008 September 04, 23:44:42
It's a strange concept, aye, that we might be better off with LESS government everywhere, hrm?
Now see, that's a person right after my own heart. Pescado, I could like you right now. :D
[hops on soap box] A 90% reduction in governmental crap would give me peace of mind! [/jumps off soap box, sliding through the lye everyone's throwing around]


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Hannahg on 2008 September 04, 23:46:06
I'm sorry but someone who wears the same jeans everyday, there is no way to be nice or polite. YOU STANK would be the most polite I could've been  ;D.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Feverish on 2008 September 05, 00:53:47
There really isn't a nice way to tell someone they have poor hygiene. In the long run, telling him is less uncomfortable than having to smell his stinky ass all day everyday. Maybe you should tell a supervisor/boss to speak to him about it. They won't tell him it was you who complained. At least they're not suppose to.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 September 05, 01:12:48
Everyone knows he stinks. Everyone. One of my bosses says he can't really tell. But everyone else does.
He's been told to deodorise but he doesn't...

I want to do it nice only because he's really emo and cries like a little bitch over the smallest nudge towards reality.
I honestly can't understand that generation of babied emos... it's insane.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: pickles on 2008 September 05, 01:27:30
Maybe give him a pair of clean pants?
And offer to take his and burnwash them?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: kenmtl on 2008 September 05, 02:37:11
I'm sorry but someone who wears the same jeans everyday, there is no way to be nice or polite......
Hey, you, I resemble that remark! Actually I own 3 pairs and they're on rotation (usually) I do not stink, I shower everyday, I just happen to not enjoy shopping and a good pair of jeans that make your butt look good from all angles is hard to find. Besides, I haz a look, it works, why fuck with it.

deelink you could try just giving him a little pet name see if he picks up on it. Like "Hey Stinkosis, wassup dude" or "Yo FunkNasty, got any toner?" or "Bonjour M. Le Pew, how was your weekend, did ya get any?" yanno something subtle like that. That's what I'd do, but that's just me.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 05, 07:34:25
deelink you could try just giving him a little pet name see if he picks up on it. Like "Hey Stinkosis, wassup dude" or "Yo FunkNasty, got any toner?" or "Bonjour M. Le Pew, how was your weekend, did ya get any?" yanno something subtle like that. That's what I'd do, but that's just me.

Please, please do this deelink.  And return here with the lulz.  :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anouk on 2008 September 05, 08:20:14
"Wash or die" usually helps too.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 September 05, 12:16:33
PMBD is being really evil to me today. It won't let me edit any of my posts, so I will try to keep this one short and less offensive sounding. *clears throat*

He didn't stink today. Apparently one of my closest friends, who also works with me, was less than subtle in her approach. She told me today she kept spraying the area he was working with heavy duty air freshner. Something must have sunk in, because I walked past him today and he said to me in this really bright voice "My washing machine is fixed!" to which I replied "It was broken for a year? Mr Pew?" he blinked and the HEAD HONCHO was right behind me. I didn't know.
I sighed and said "Forget it, it was mean. Good to hear it dude" and kept walking.

As I opened the door I could hear giggling behind me, so I turned and saw the CEO of the shop, laughing his ass off. Emoboy scurried off red faced.

The End.

Thanks Ken! :P


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: OceanbornAngel on 2008 September 05, 17:20:57
As I opened the door I could hear giggling behind me, so I turned and saw the CEO of the shop, laughing his ass off. Emoboy scurried off red faced.

 :-[


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 September 05, 17:47:25
he said to me in this really bright voice "My washing machine is fixed!" to which I replied "It was broken for a year? Mr Pew?" he blinked and the HEAD HONCHO was right behind me. I didn't know.
I sighed and said "Forget it, it was mean. Good to hear it dude" and kept walking.
I'm sorry, but there's such a thing as a laundromat. I hate doing laundry, and I shower at least once a day (two days out of the week on average I'll take two showers...I have oily hair/skin, and I hate being sweaty). I do wear the same pair of work pants three days in a row, but I'm clean, I only wear them to the office. I don't have a dirty job. I have people I've told to let me know if I smell because my sense of smell is almost never functioning and I trust them.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anouk on 2008 September 05, 20:18:07
I can't live without showering every day. On working days I shower twice. I'm a nurse, I'd feel grossed out to touch anything at home before taking a shower.
I read something in a paper that showering twice a week is pretty normal for alot of people in Europe, especially for 50+ people. They just do the rest at the sink.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: keirra on 2008 September 05, 22:29:46
I can't live without showering every day. On working days I shower twice. I'm a nurse, I'd feel grossed out to touch anything at home before taking a shower.
I read something in a paper that showering twice a week is pretty normal for alot of people in Europe, especially for 50+ people. They just do the rest at the sink.

You're a nurse? All the chats we've had, and I never knew that! I guess I thought your job was making me pretty stuff for my sims. ;D I'm kidding, of course. I did think you were a full time student, though.

Oh, Noukie, I hardly know thee.  :-*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Yaardarm Monkey II on 2008 September 06, 02:22:02
Noukie, are you like the nurses from Carry On Doctor?

Ya know like the Matron (Hattie Jacques)
.....or the blonde one  (Barbara Windsor) ?

 :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 September 06, 02:29:19
Oh don't even joke about not bathing....I have to deal with people who honestly believe that unless they see lice crawling on their body, they won't even BEGIN to think about personal hygene. It's so fucking disgusting.
Excessive bathing weakens the immune system and is a mark of the soft and weak. Plus it is that much harder to damage me when you have to chop your way through an armored layer of encrusted grime.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 September 06, 03:19:05
Oh don't even joke about not bathing....I have to deal with people who honestly believe that unless they see lice crawling on their body, they won't even BEGIN to think about personal hygene. It's so fucking disgusting.
Excessive bathing weakens the immune system and is a mark of the soft and weak. Plus it is that much harder to damage me when you have to chop your way through an armored layer of encrusted grime.

All I can say to that Pes is... thank god I can't smell you through the internet :P


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: calalily on 2008 September 06, 05:08:30
Noukie is a nurse? You do realise your stalkers will have new fantasies now.  :D

"It was broken for a year? Mr Pew?" he blinked and the HEAD HONCHO was right behind me.

I loled.  :D

Excessive bathing weakens the immune system and is a mark of the soft and weak. Plus it is that much harder to damage me when you have to chop your way through an armored layer of encrusted grime.

Filth can get so bad that it dissolves the skin underneath - you may be chopped easier because of it. I, also, am glad there is no scratch and sniff internet.  You should give yourself your own mod in game with stink lines.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Astonished lemons on 2008 September 06, 05:30:22
I have to shower at least once a day. Usually the mornings.
If I dont I feel so grimy and self concious.
I do however go a week or so without washing my jeans. . .  :-[

Nouks a nurse ehy? Wow. I figured you were a student too.

Whats the pay like? *Hasnt decided which way to go in college*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anouk on 2008 September 06, 11:24:27
Oh I do not have the required paper yet, but I'm working 4 days a week and one day school. I have to redo an internship and will be ready februari next year. If I were to quit now and not get my diploma, I'd be able to work as a level 3+ nurse instead of a level 5 I'm going for now. The difference in responsibility and pay is considerable (sp?) plus I'd have a massive debt. If I finish school three quarters of the debt is *poof* gone. I'm not passing up on that.  :P
Pay is not so great compared to other professions. Plus it can be hard and dangerous work. I always said I wanted to get my diploma and then do something else, but I was offered a job at a place where among other things, you contact sick workers, check up on them, assess the medical situation and decide wether to make appointments with specialists for them. Each person has a medical file, and ofcourse the whole point is commercial (you want the person to be healthy, back at work faster), but it still sounds like something I would like to do. It's more one-on-one contact and it has high responsibility.
At home nursing (not sure what it's called in english) has one of the nicer pays out there because it has more responsibilities right from the start of your carreer. You can start out with 1650 euro at a hospital, where home care will pay you 2100 or more. But, at level 5 in other professions, most people start out with around 2300 - 2500  and the difference only becomes bigger when the years progress.
So: fun = depends on what setting,  pay= depends on what setting.

I have always had fun in internships, except at the psychiatric ward where people were brought in in crisis. Agressive, dangerous, selfharming etc.  Even seen a couple of convicted murderers and rapists. A year after I was done there a few nurses were raped over there. That part of the psychiatyric field is NOT for me.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: cookiepirate on 2008 September 06, 12:04:06
Nouk, is that HBO or University?  My daughter has to finish her internship for MBO (in January) and then starts her HBO next fall. 

Luckily, here, if you get sick/injured at work, they will take care of you and make sure you get the proper care and treatment from the start.  A lot different than in the states, at least in my experience with work related injuries.  Ended up getting a lawyer just to get the proper treatment for mine, and by that time, the damage had become permanent.  Surgery (5 in 1.5 years) only helped some with the pain level.  I have permenant nerve, tendon and muscle damage in my right arm (from fingers to shoulder and neck) that has already started to become arthritic.   I've learned to live on over the counter Ibuprophen to keep the pain at a managable level (tho, 200 mgs tablets from the states works better than the 200 mgs here, not sure why). 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anouk on 2008 September 06, 12:30:49
Bah that's horrible! Another reason why I think there's something seriously wrong with the USA.  But, ofcourse Holland is slowly turning into a little copy of the US with the way they start handling health care and want to make it easier for a company to fire people and with less piss-offf-pay and whatnot.  BUUUUUUT not for the interim managers, they get a few hundred thousand just for sitting on a chair for 3 months. >:(
Are you Dutch? I'm at a HBO school. What will your daughter study? :)
DON'T send her to an INHOLLAND collegel, that's all I have to say. Those are the worst colleges in the country.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: cookiepirate on 2008 September 06, 13:34:28
Nope, I'm not Dutch (I can read the language, but speaking it...its hard for my southern tongue to form a lot of the words...LOL), but I live here with my hubby and my kids went to school here (son started at VMBO, level 0, a kind of pre-VMBO class they had) and daughter started at 5th class in basis, skipped 6th after learning Dutch, and went on to VMBO classes).  She's studying ITLM (International Travel and Leisure Management) for her MBO (she has a VMBO in ICT, the only girl in her class to finish it), and wants to get a HBO in economics or business management.  Her life's dream is to own a bar or club.  She spent the first 2 internships working in Amsterdam at a hostel in the reception and bar area.  She would have went back for her third, but she needs to complete some assignments that involved children.  I'm not sure what she would need to complete in University to reach her goals, but she has it all planned out. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 September 06, 16:17:19
That's the thing - the states is very behind other countries, as far as social programs and corporate responsibility, but it seems like other governments want to copy us and for the life of me, I can't figure out why - greed, I guess, but in the long run, that greed is a hollow thing.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Missbonbon on 2008 September 06, 17:27:03
I also think that an issue is that so many legal documents  nowadays come with a billion pages of "fine print." that no one really reads anymore. So they just say "Ok!"

Like many field trips and such will say that where ever you go the place to visit isn't responsible if a child gets hurt, but yet isn't it their responsibility to protect and keep that child from harm?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 September 06, 17:59:35
Like many field trips and such will say that where ever you go the place to visit isn't responsible if a child gets hurt, but yet isn't it their responsibility to protect and keep that child from harm?

That's because otherwise, if somehow a child does get hurt, they will get sued - in a country where people can get sued -by the person breaking into their house- for any injuries the robber gets while commiting a crime, and the robber -wins-, there is a problem.



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dusdeedawn on 2008 September 06, 19:33:29
That's because otherwise, if somehow a child does get hurt, they will get sued - in a country where people can get sued -by the person breaking into their house- for any injuries the robber gets while commiting a crime, and the robber -wins-, there is a problem.

One of many reasons why my parents taught me to shoot to kill.   ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Astonished lemons on 2008 September 06, 20:09:17
That's because otherwise, if somehow a child does get hurt, they will get sued - in a country where people can get sued -by the person breaking into their house- for any injuries the robber gets while commiting a crime, and the robber -wins-, there is a problem.

One of many reasons why my parents taught me to shoot to kill.   ;)
WIN.

I blame the lawyers.

"Dont kill him! its illegal to kill a lawyer!"
"Really?"
"Theyre still around, arent they?"
-Terry Pratchett's Discworld Books

A garbage man was collectiong his trash, illegally, and accidentally crushed his own car. he sued the city, AND WON.

WTF??!!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Immortelle on 2008 September 07, 00:20:53
Excessive bathing weakens the immune system and is a mark of the soft and weak. Plus it is that much harder to damage me when you have to chop your way through an armored layer of encrusted grime.
On what grounds do you base that argument Fish Brains?  Folks had similar ideas up until the 1900s - very few lived to be over 50 as a consequence, and many were riddled with all sorts of maladies.  It was only after Florence Nightingale introduced the concept of actually washing that people began to live longer, and were less prone to disease. Are you scared that if you have a shower, you'll disintegrate and vanish down the plug hole?

Have we got a few nurses here?  Cool. My sister and my mother are both Registered Nurses (well, my mum's retired now.  Got really sick about 10 years back.  Was diagnosed with Protien C deficiency, had a blood clot in her aeorta).  Just so you know, here in Australia, there are two kinds of nurses.  ENs or Enrolled Nurses, who have a Diploma.  They can do a lot of the care jobs but they are not allowed to do needles, or vary medication or anything like that.  RN's or Registered Nurses have a Degree or greater, and they are also required to update their studies every year.  But they have a lot more knowledge and authority in a hospital.  Most of the nurses I know are very no nonsense and down to earth individuals, who have had to put up with way to much crap as part of their job.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dusdeedawn on 2008 September 07, 03:36:09
Excessive bathing weakens the immune system and is a mark of the soft and weak. Plus it is that much harder to damage me when you have to chop your way through an armored layer of encrusted grime.
Are you scared that if you have a shower, you'll disintegrate and vanish down the plug hole?

No, no, quite clearly he's trying to live up to his hero, Rancid Crabtree.   :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: vexed on 2008 September 08, 05:00:24
I'm just ripping this from a discussion board at my uni, but it's kinda relevant.

Note: we're in a pretty bloody serious drought here in Aus.  Massive water restrictions, blah blah blah.

Quote
...just as an example of people not really being willing to do anything about climate change, when I was in France I stayed with a host family. It was the middle of summer in Australia and I had become used to the very very fast showers with a bucket in the corner collecting the excess to use on the garden. So when I was in France I continued with the quick showers. After about a week my host mother interrogated me on my hygeine wanting to know why i spent so little time in the bathroom. I explained about the drought in Australia and how we had water restrictions and her response was- well this is France. We have enough water. Have longer showers, you should shower for at least 10 minutes then I know you will be clean.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Anyerfillag on 2008 September 08, 14:07:09
lol! And the French are stereotypically known for their bad hygiene :D Strange that she is so adamant that you shower for that long; we don't have a drought but showering that long uses up a lot of hot water (i.e. heating and then of course its costs alot) and I'd be bored showering for that long - there's only so many times you can wash your body :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: cookiepirate on 2008 September 08, 14:37:28
I love long showers!  I'm not a bathtub person, so I wash my hair, condition it, brush my teeth, soap up and rinse and then do any shaving that needs done.  If I'm in a real showery mood, I will finish up with some nice moisturinzing shower gel for a little extra OOMPH.  :o  10 minutes for me IS a quick shower!  I also use a water saving shower head, so I can take those long showers!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 September 08, 15:25:53
We're in a several year drought here up in the southeastern US.  No watering of lawns or washing cars - professional carwashes had to get special recycling equipment so they could stay in business.  Heaven forbid we put the water back into the earth where it belongs >.<


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Ry on 2008 September 08, 16:39:02
I'm lucky to get ten minutes.
The minute I get in the shower both of my boys are beating on the door yelling, Mom!
Most of the time I've still got conditioner in my hair when I get out...lol.
Interruptions not FTW.  :-\

 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Pescado on 2008 September 08, 17:54:14
Or you could just not shower so much. Excessive bathing weakens the immune system and causes allergies, anyway.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: dusdeedawn on 2008 September 08, 18:22:51
I grew up without running water, so when I was 16 and moved to town, I showered twice a day for a few months. Then I started getting acne, my skin began peeling along my hairline, and some other weird things were happening, like a permanent red mark under my eye. My family actually did an intervention. They cornered me and told me that I had to stop!  :D Apparently, there's such a thing as being too clean. Who knew?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Tabby on 2008 September 08, 19:26:14
 Pescado apparently.....   ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: TapThatBooty on 2008 September 08, 19:42:44
Have we got a few nurses here?

i love how these topics turn out lol.
im in college doing sciences mow,just started, then its forensics then anthropology lol.
so it seems that the people on this board are into medical stuff hmmmmm interesting lol.

its soooo awesome, i just found out today that im gonna be working with viruses and desieses and growing my own coloney of bacteria, and working with MRSA!! i was like WOAH!! and that im gonna be disecting things too, im really looking forward to all that lol.
does that make me morbid?  ???


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 September 08, 19:56:32
I have this issue where I tend to kind of lose time in the bathroom in the morning. I think I must still be half asleep. I waste a lot of water while just sitting there until I snap to. I'm a night owl and tend to want to stay up until the wee hours of the morning but yet have to get up at a decent time, leading to my getting too little sleep during the week. I try to enforce a strict midnight bedtime on school nights. Sometimes it works.

On a shower in the afternoon, I'm in and out in five minutes tops. That's if I have to shave the legs.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: TapThatBooty on 2008 September 08, 20:18:18
I have this issue where I tend to kind of lose time in the bathroom in the morning. I think I must still be half asleep. I waste a lot of water while just sitting there until I snap to. I'm a night owl and tend to want to stay up until the wee hours of the morning but yet have to get up at a decent time, leading to my getting too little sleep during the week. I try to enforce a strict midnight bedtime on school nights. Sometimes it works.

On a shower in the afternoon, I'm in and out in five minutes tops. That's if I have to shave the legs.

thats what im like in the mornings, not a morning person at all. i usualy come to with a toothbrush hanging out of me gob lol. or sat out in the garden shivering me ass off with a smoke haning from my gob lol.

you shave your legs? youre a woman? i thought you were a man. im sorry lol


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: keirra on 2008 September 08, 22:28:12
TapThatBooty, you've obviously lost your shift key. Here's another for you.

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i119/keirra1983/Lol%20Cats/shiftkey_small.jpg)

Adults use basic sentence structure, this is an adult forum.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: vexed on 2008 September 08, 23:57:38
I'm not too bad if I only have to wash my body, but if I have to wash my hair and/or shave my legs, then I take a lot longer. :)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ChaosInAMinor on 2008 September 09, 00:10:36
Showers are quite possibly my favorite part of the day. I'm really neurotic about feeling dried sweat, so if I've done a lot that day, or it's been particularly hot, I'll not only take a shower in the morning, but one in the evening. My roommate is really fast in the shower (she apparently doesn't really sweat) and usually takes hers in the evening because they make her sleepy, so it works out pretty well for me to wake up and grab one because they wake me up.

My boyfriend is the same way. He used to wake up, take a shower, work out, then take another one. Since getting a real job (ie graduating college), he's learned that he doesn't have time because of the commute. So now he just gets up really early, works out, THEN takes a shower.

He's got some kind of work out addiction, so he's kind of neurotic in a lot of ways...not that I'm complaining. He's that perfect, toned, not too gross muscley...*snaps out of daydream tangent*


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 September 09, 01:26:39
Showers FTW!
I take a 15 minute shower every morning, and a 5 minute one before getting into bed. I like to crawl into bed freshly clean for snuggles :)

I have a cold right now *sigh* and my bf is a stick figure but I lubs him :P
So I guess showers do lower immunity? I take a lot of vitamin C does that help? I am not giving up my showers! Heh.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: EmilyTwitch on 2008 September 09, 03:21:21
I must be weird, I hate taking baths or showers. I hate feeling too clean. I guess its because while all the other girls were playing barbies in their houses, I was outside diving through bushes and mud playing Army with the boys... Ah, childhood...


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ChaosInAMinor on 2008 September 09, 04:18:27
I was a hellraiser, mud covered child, too. But when you're caked in mud, guess where else you can make a grand ol' mess? The bathtub. My mom always says she hopes I have a child just like me. I was her mother's curse on her, so I deserve mine. ;)

deelink, the only problem with a boyfriend who works out so much is that you feel so unhealthy compared to them. I HATE exercise if I think it's exercise. I enjoy taking walks and stuff like that, but if I feel like I'm working out, I don't really want to do it. I'm getting a bit self conscious about the amount of fat I have compared to him, though, so I've been doing a little workout routine lately, but never in front of him. I feel like an idiot when I do pushups and such. Maybe it's all those years of high school PE that have scarred me for life. I was the fat kid. I'm not fat now, but I'm not really thin either. But when your boyfriend has the top half of a demi god, you get a little worried about the flatness of your tummy, if ya know what I mean. Not that he's ever expressed that he wants me any other way than I am. *shrug* 20 year old girl extreme self conciousness, much?


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Missbonbon on 2008 September 09, 04:45:26
As a child I was always the clean one. If a speck of dirt got on me I would pitch a tantrum. Then as I got older I became a tomboy and really didn't become a tiny bit more feminine until about eighth grade. I always played sports with the boys. I even turned some of my female barbies into boys by shaving their head then dressing them up in Ken's clothes  :P

But yes Chaos I can understand what you mean. In high school I was ROTC and I was always in shape, then I got out of high school and I gained like 10 lbs. I'm not fat by any means, but I'm definitely not used to the pudge either.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Astonished lemons on 2008 September 09, 04:48:23
My showers take a while I can spend up to an hour in the bathroom in the mornings without even realizing it.

Its like I'll just stare off into space and not notice what Im doing untill someone pounds on the door for me to get out.

I come up with the neatest daydream Ideas though.



Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 September 09, 05:02:14
When I get into the shower, don't hold your breath waiting for me, you'll pass out. I like to take long showers, but then again, being as fat as I am it takes a lot to wash this hide clean! That and I've always been a water baby, playing in the kiddie pool in the back yard was the best way to keep me clean without a fight. You know the kind of little girl... Skinned knees, mud, messy hair? Then they grow up and they have to be just so before they will even run up to the store for a carton of milk! Yep, that's me.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 September 09, 06:25:37
Chaos, more than likely the reason why your bf is into working out and stuff, is because he wants to be strong. And that strenght perhaps gives him confidence. I think confidence is important, it's definetly sexy. He probably loves your figure and your sassy ways, and he wants to look his best for you. Just be confident he's into you, and belive in your relationship. It's the best way to keep it healthy, don't you think so?
So no need to feel bad about your tummy. I have a tummy, and my bf doesn't care. :* Tummys are sexy!


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Feverish on 2008 September 09, 06:35:33
I like showers. Not baths. I don't wanna soak. I hate showering in the morning when it's cold outside. I sneeze in the shower. I don't even want to get out of bed on those days. I like to stay snuggled up in the covers. Damn I can't wait til November.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: TapThatBooty on 2008 September 09, 14:26:52
TapThatBooty, you've obviously lost your shift key. Here's another for you.

snip

Adults use basic sentence structure, this is an adult forum.

Sorry, my keyboard is set up like a stupid laptop one. I had spilled tea on my old one so I had got this one, the layout is all different, instead of hitting the "shift" key, I'm hitting the "?" key, so I've got to try and find the backspace button, only yo hit the "+" key. 'Tis very frustraiting.

Me thinks you no like me, you always gives me into trouble  :'(

 ;)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 September 09, 17:21:17
I like showers. Not baths. I don't wanna soak. I hate showering in the morning when it's cold outside. I sneeze in the shower. I don't even want to get out of bed on those days. I like to stay snuggled up in the covers. Damn I can't wait til November.
All a bath is is you sitting in a wet pool of your own filth. Ick. Can't stand 'em. Plus, sitting in a bathtub is a bit risky when you rent.

Yes, I'm a girl. Or a woman. Whatever.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 September 09, 17:31:12
You iz a female. 'Nuff said. And the only time I will sit in a tub is when it's just been cleaned and I wanna shave my legs. I find that my balance isn't good enough to do it in the shower, I tend to tip and falling is painful. (inner ears are messed up from massive ear infections as a kid)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: keirra on 2008 September 09, 22:02:32
TapThatBooty, you've obviously lost your shift key. Here's another for you.

snip

Adults use basic sentence structure, this is an adult forum.

Sorry, my keyboard is set up like a stupid laptop one. I had spilled tea on my old one so I had got this one, the layout is all different, instead of hitting the "shift" key, I'm hitting the "?" key, so I've got to try and find the backspace button, only yo hit the "+" key. 'Tis very frustraiting.

Me thinks you no like me, you always gives me into trouble  :'(

 ;)

You think I don't like you? That's crazy. I hate everyone equally!  ;D

Seriously, I don't dislike anyone here. It just drives me nuts when basic sentence structure isn't used. Sometimes I am bitchier than other times.

I would really appreciate it, though, if you would preview your posts to fix any mistakes you may have made. That will keep me calm and make you look better as a poster.  :)


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Paden on 2008 September 09, 22:15:18
Yeah, I drive her nuts enough with crazy, off-the-wall shit... Crazed keirra is crazed at times. :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Immortelle on 2008 September 09, 23:32:41
TapThatBooty, these cruel, heartless bastards :P will rip into anyone given even half an excuse.  Don't take it personal.  Its just their idea of fun.

I'm an absolute shocker with morning showers.  I've actually passed out a few times in them.  A friend of mine has done similar, wound up in hospital with his jaw all stitched and stapled up.  Mornings are very slow for me. 


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: keirra on 2008 September 10, 01:50:01
TapThatBooty, these cruel, heartless bastards :P will rip into anyone given even half an excuse.  Don't take it personal.  Its just their idea of fun.
 

Ummmm, no, not fun, necessary. One of the things I've liked about posting here is the adult conversation. Poking people that can't post like an adult is what we've done here from the beginning. It keeps the 12's away.

*keirra pokes FGC

You gave me half an excuse.  ;D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ChaosInAMinor on 2008 September 10, 02:48:49
The other day when I was in the shower, I slipped on a blob of shampoo my roomie left on the bottom of the tub floor and slammed the back of my head against the porcelain tiles. That hurt like a sonofabitch. I'm lucky I didn't black out, as I was home alone.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: TapThatBooty on 2008 September 10, 14:33:06
TapThatBooty, these cruel, heartless bastards :P will rip into anyone given even half an excuse.  Don't take it personal.  Its just their idea of fun.

*Snip*

Hehe, yeah I know its all in the name of fun. I've been lurking for a while now, so I've got used to the banter here.

I'm more of a shower person really. Ive seen me go into the shower and forget to come out again. I've been told I have OCD, which seems right, if I get a tiny bit of dirt on me, then clothes are off and in the wash, and im in the shower scrubbing until my skin is red.

I'm like that with cleaning too. If something is off center, then out comes the dusters, hovers, window cleaners, the lot.
When I'm hanging pictures up on the wall, out comes the spirit level and measuring tape, so that each picture is evenly spaced out and level.
My boyfriend calls me Monica from Friends, because if something needs cleaned, then I cant relax until it is done, but then it leads to a cleaning frenzy.

I've moved a room around before because something looked out of place so I rearanged the furniture to make it fit with the rest of the room. :D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Missbonbon on 2008 September 10, 16:15:41
TapThatBooty, these cruel, heartless bastards :P will rip into anyone given even half an excuse.  Don't take it personal.  Its just their idea of fun.

*Snip*

Hehe, yeah I know its all in the name of fun. I've been lurking for a while now, so I've got used to the banter here.

I'm more of a shower person really. Ive seen me go into the shower and forget to come out again. I've been told I have OCD, which seems right, if I get a tiny bit of dirt on me, then clothes are off and in the wash, and im in the shower scrubbing until my skin is red.

I'm like that with cleaning too. If something is off center, then out comes the dusters, hovers, window cleaners, the lot.
When I'm hanging pictures up on the wall, out comes the spirit level and measuring tape, so that each picture is evenly spaced out and level.
My boyfriend calls me Monica from Friends, because if something needs cleaned, then I cant relax until it is done, but then it leads to a cleaning frenzy.

I've moved a room around before because something looked out of place so I rearanged the furniture to make it fit with the rest of the room. :D

Ahh I used to do that! Now I live with 4 guys and it's impossible for me to do that, so I gave up  ;D


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: TapThatBooty on 2008 September 10, 20:26:07
Haha, how did you end up with that gig?
I'd hate to live with 4 blokes, I coud just imagine the chaos that would cause. I'd be cleaning constantly, they'd love it, I'd get annoyed with them  ;D.

But you should see one of my frenzies, i get my rubber gloves out and everything, people have learnt to stay out of my way when I get like that, I snap at anyone who gets in my way. And like most Scottish blokes, i have a bad temper  ::).


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: deelink on 2008 September 11, 01:05:26
Wow TapBooty, the whole time I was CONVINCED you were a guy!  :o


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Missbonbon on 2008 September 11, 02:40:34
Haha, how did you end up with that gig?
I'd hate to live with 4 blokes, I coud just imagine the chaos that would cause. I'd be cleaning constantly, they'd love it, I'd get annoyed with them  ;D.

But you should see one of my frenzies, i get my rubber gloves out and everything, people have learnt to stay out of my way when I get like that, I snap at anyone who gets in my way. And like most Scottish blokes, i have a bad temper  ::).

Well I fell in love with a dork. A big dork. And his parents told him he had to move out, so he moved out with two of his friends. I ended up staying with them so much, I moved in. So it was me my love and two other guys. Well one of them was worthless so we moved out and in with another guy so it was still me my love and two other guys, and recently a friend of mine who sleeps on our couch alot has moved in. Now he has a futon in the corner  :D

I like it. I never really got along with girls that were "girly." I find girly girls to be to catty sometimes. Whenever someone asks them how it feels to be in an apartment full of girls they reply "Who's the girl? Sabrina? She's not a girl, she just has a tiny penis."


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: SoggyFox on 2008 September 11, 02:46:44
I'm the same way - I live with three guys, and planning on moving in with another couple of guys and another woman of the same sort as me - not girly....which is funny, I'm girly in a lot of ways - I knit, crochet, sew....love my stuffed animals - but I'm also very much not girly - I also love playing with metal and stone and wood....and I rarely dress up, though I like to.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: ChaosInAMinor on 2008 September 11, 04:44:56
I find that I have a lot more fun around guys, too. Girls are just so much more easily offended and I'm pretty offensive.

I live with another female, but she's a lot like me in that we're both not so girly. I mean, we wear dresses, sometimes make up, etc, but attitude wise, we're not at all girly. We're bawdy as hell. She's fun.


Title: Re: TSR ATTACKS! WE CAN HAZ NEW LEGAL THREAT!
Post by: Zazazu on 2008 September 11, 05:22:39
I don't really like living with people, regardless of the sex. I suppose a guy (who is sexually off-limits) would be better than a girl, but I'd prefer for it to be just me and my pets. Then I don't have to worry about bothering someone by staying up until 2 am on a weeknight or them bothering me, and I can wear or not wear whatever the heck I want.

Other than your normal dorm situations, I lived with a girl for about eight months. She never paid her portion of the rent anywhere near on time (luckily, my landlord was on top of things and gave me my security deposit back in full right away but withheld hers by claiming all the repairs were taken out), would offer to take the bill payments to the mailbox and then leave them sit in her car for a month...never mind that all the utilities were in my name, and had a loud verbally abusive boyfriend. Bah. Then, in my next place, I had my gay best friend staying over so much that he might as well have been officially living there. I made him buy groceries. That was okay...we'd been friends for 11 years before we finally broke up for good, and at that time we were inseparable. The only problem was that he liked to sing songs to me when I got up in the morning and I am not a morning person.