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Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: tIIsuggas on 2006 November 18, 15:32:11 Just out of curiosity, I went through some of the subscription process for one of the paysites.
Bearing in mind, all I am contributing to is upkeep of the site. I got to this page. (http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k22/t2suggas/tsrvat.jpg) Notice the VAT charge (I am British so have to pay VAT to businesses) I looked up the VAT rates on the official Customs and Excise site. Official Site (http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_001222&propertyType=document#P11_406) Does anyone notice any discrepancies between the official VAT rates, and the VAT rate the site is using? Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Pescado on 2006 November 18, 15:53:44 Yeah, it looks a lot like someone is pocketing abut 7.5% extra as profits. Also, the people in question seem to be Swedish, so they might be keeping all of it. Do non-British people pay that?
Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Sherry on 2006 November 18, 15:59:53 Out of curiousity is that VAT the same for all your paypal purchases or is this a cost that TSR is adding themselves?
Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: tIIsuggas on 2006 November 18, 16:03:52 Quote from: "Sherry" Out of curiousity is that VAT the same for all your paypal purchases or is this a cost that TSR is adding themselves? I wouldn't know, I don't usually go through PayPal. The incidence in this matter is through debit card. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Captain Feathersword on 2006 November 18, 16:04:43 TSR are based in Sweden, it says so on the form so we have to pay Swedish VAT rates. (I'm not sure whether non-Swedish residents or non-EU residents have to pay it.) VAT is a European tax, but I think it's left up to the countries in charge to set it. As far as I am aware 25% is quite common on the continent. The 17.5% is specific to UK.
Not that this excuses them at all. They are very obviously running a business which is even properly registered. The only problem is what are they actually selling? Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Quorneater on 2006 November 18, 16:14:43 In England, if you are selling to end-users, people who will be required to pay VAT, then you *must* put the VAT-inclusive price on show. If you want to show both prices, the VAT-inclusive one must be the larger. You may show the non-VAT price alone only if you are primarily marketing to business.
Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: tIIsuggas on 2006 November 18, 16:17:30 For my subscription I would receive.
Access to certain Sim related downloads that non-subscribers don't have. Use of the download and install wizard and download basket. (Sim related again). Advert free browsing of the site. Unlimited bandwidth. *These are from memory, so I may have missed something. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Captain Feathersword on 2006 November 18, 16:21:57 Quote from: "tIIsuggas" For my subscription I would receive. Access to certain Sim related downloads that non-subscribers don't have. Use of the download and install wizard and download basket. (Sim related again). Advert free browsing of the site. Unlimited bandwidth. *These are from memory, so I may have missed something. Good point. As I do not consider those things worth paying for I have never given it much thought in all the time I have spent there. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Privateer on 2006 November 18, 16:26:57 I hate VAT and the Euro too.
Burninate, with extreme prejudice! Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Anouk on 2006 November 18, 16:51:39 VAT for foodproducts is 6% and for other services is 19% I think. In Holland.
Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Captain Feathersword on 2006 November 18, 17:08:33 Quote VAT Sweden’s Value Added Tax (VAT) Act is harmonized with the EC VAT directives. Known in Swedish as ”moms” (short for mervärdesskatt), the normal VAT rate is 25 percent. However, a reduced rate of 12 percent applies to for example food and hotel charges. A rate of 6 percent applies to personal transportation, newspapers, books and magazines, entrance fees to commercial sport activities and cultural events. Certain services are exempt from VAT, including medical and dental care, social services, banking and financial services etc. This fact sheet is developed in cooperation with the Swedish government agency, Invest in Sweden Agency, ISA ,www.isa.se, responsible to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: jesserocket on 2006 November 18, 17:30:40 Yeah, 25% is the highest level of VAT the EU allows, in Britain it's 17.5%, but as was said, Sweden has it set at 25%, cos Sweden is ludicrous with the taxes...;)
Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: PirateBooty on 2006 November 18, 22:02:18 But they're not paying taxes, are they? So yeah, extra profit for them.
Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Sherry on 2006 November 18, 22:14:49 Ohh I dunno about TSR. I would tend to think, yes they may be a site that does pay taxes. I have heard tell Steve ect. makes a pretty big profit, even with the distribution of money to FA's ect, I think this sort of profit would be pretty hard to hide, unlike some smaller, albeit equally expensive and lesser know paysites.
I mean if you are making $500-$1000 a month, well that is some substantial pocket change, but I also think that is something that online ect you could still hide easily. From what I have heard, and this was back awhile ago, that TSR makes much more, it might be harder for them to avoid the tax process. Especially if they know the consquences for hiding larger sums of money. Edit: plus the sheer fact of it is they are dealing with much larger sums of money too, even if (which I doubt) they aren't making the numbers I was told. Anyway, I think they are wise enough to know that someone would notice that kind of exchange and they probably do account for it. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: jesserocket on 2006 November 18, 22:37:37 In this case, I tend to think that they are on the right side of it, and likely are legitimately claiming VAT, however I was looking round, quite a lot, and can't find them saying anything about being VAT registered or being a registered company or anything.
I checked with my boyfriend, who knows about these things, he said this: In the UK, you have to automatically register for VAT if you have a turnover of over £80,000 a year, although it can be voluntary before that, but generally it's not a great idea to do so before then. The reason their VAT number is not publically available is because it's highly unlikely someone would subscribe to them, then write it off a a business expense, but if one was to ask them for it, they would have to give it out, legally. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: tIIsuggas on 2006 November 18, 23:50:31 At the very bottom of this very sludgy barrel, is the fact of EA's EULA.
'Non commercial' etc etc. VAT should not even be entering the equation. Take Sims away from TSR, = no business. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: jesserocket on 2006 November 19, 00:07:34 A very good point which I can't believe didn't even cross my mind.
Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Captain Feathersword on 2006 November 19, 00:14:41 Me too. baaaa. Excuse me.
I was having a moment when I thought I might have to think they weren't evil even though I knew they were. ar... arr... Arrr! I feel piratier now. TSR IS EVIL ARRR! Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Marhis on 2006 November 19, 02:58:50 Should be interesting discover if VAT is handled by PayPal or by the reseller only. VAT (IVA in Italy) is a government tax: the reseller is entitled to collect it, but he can't simply take it by him/herself. When I pay something through PayPal, I have to pay also my 20% VAT, which is property of italian government. He who receives my payment have to forward that 20% to the italian government: usually this can be done rather simply when you have a business: some entry in your books, registering your business taxes, and done.
The problem raise if you aren't a business owner and do not have a business account for taxes: not only you're not paying your own taxes, but you are actively stealing even those of a foreign government. Funny, in a weird sort of way. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: jesserocket on 2006 November 19, 03:20:59 VAT within the EU is the same principle in all member states, it's up to the individual country what the rate is set at (between 15% and 25%, standard rate), but it all has the same purpose and rules governing it. :)
Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: wicked_one on 2006 November 19, 03:44:42 us people from other parts of the world don't have to pay that VAT fee, I tested that out right now by clicking the subscribe button lol we only have paypal as an option if we want a 2mo sub but if we want more than that we can choose paypal or credit/debit card.
This can't possibly be the first time someone has noticed the VAT fee...there is no q&a in the database about it and there's no mention of it on the forum...I wonder why there is nothing about whether or not they are a business that pays taxes? They just figured everybody would assume they are a registered business and not question it? On the "About TSR" page there is nothing about it....but it does say they have 1,240,055 registered members...so lets do a little math (which I suck at but I have a calculator here lol) if 1/2 of the members buy a 2mo subscription ONCE=$5,549,246.13 if 1/3 of the members buy a 2mo subscription ONCE=$3,699,497.42 if 1/4 of the members buy a 2mo subscription ONCE=$2,774,623.06 if 1/8 of the members buy a 2mo subscription ONCE=$1,387,311.53 there are alot of people that buy the subscription more than once or choose the 6 or 12mo plan....and they have to pay their FA's....and pay for the site itself (I have no idea how much that costs because they don't mention it anywhere on there but i'm guessing it's at least the same as it costs MTS2 if not more)...but even after all that, that is still alot of money they are taking in.... The site itself is owned by another company (which is owned by one of the co-owners/co-founders named Per)... Quote When I am prompted to install the Installation Wizard, it says "IBIBI AB" as the publisher instead of "TSR" - why? IBIBI AB is the company responsible for running TSR. Certificates can only be issued to registered company, that's why we can´t have "TSR" there even though we could like to. So does that mean the company that owns TSR reports the taxes and stuff? or is it not being reported at all because TSR itself isn't a registered company (which means they are pocketing all the VAT fees)? Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Caedre on 2006 November 19, 09:13:07 Quote from: "Nouk" VAT for foodproducts is 6% and for other services is 19% I think. In Holland. I thought it was 17,9% ? I had that with economy 1 year ago, but then again, the highest grade I got was a 5 :lol: Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: mistersassypants on 2006 November 19, 17:30:23 Quote from: "wicked_one" So does that mean the company that owns TSR reports the taxes and stuff? or is it not being reported at all because TSR itself isn't a registered company (which means they are pocketing all the VAT fees)? No, it means that there is a legitimate business that developed the instalation wizard, and it could also mean that this legitimate company 'owns' TSR and that is the business license they run under. It's funny how if you google ibibi ab you get a hit, but the page isn't there anymore and the googlecache of it is blank. Title: Businesses in Britain charge VAT Post by: Marhis on 2006 November 19, 17:31:27 Quote from: "wicked_one" us people from other parts of the world don't have to pay that VAT fee That's right: VAT fees are applyed on the buyer, depending by his/her country, and are completely indipendent from the seller: in Europe we have to pay VAT always, on whatever stuff we buy, in whatever country resides the seller, and the % is fixed, depending only by the country the buyer lives in. So, we buyers are ok with laws and taxes: we have paid our taxes, we have proof (paypal's receipts) of it. The problem is all on the seller's side: it's he/her that have to figure out how to deliver our taxes fees to the proper country governments, and this can be done only through the seller's tax system. Easy, if you own a business, impossible if you don't. |