PMBD

EA says that paysites are violating EA's copyright and EULA (End User License Agreement). EA also says that file-sharing sites are ok because EA owns the copyright to all custom content (since it is in .package/.sims2pack format and/or based on their work). EA also says that they intended for all custom content to be shared freely, no strings attached.

Where do they say this? Here: http://noukiesims2.net/filevaultantipaysite.htm and Here: http://noukiesims2.net/EAconfirms.gif

They havent made an official announcement about it yet but it looks like they are investigating what they can do legally to get paysites to become freesites.

You may have seen discussions about this (or announcements about this) elsewhere like Sims2Community. We do not have a discussion thread about it, and we won't have one about it.

Paysites may use the word "donation" but donation means to give freely without getting anything in return. Which means people are purchasing pixels from them.
They may say they need the money for "bandwidth", but that just means they havent found a good host (MySimSite and FFSS have cheap reliable hosts listed to help them with that). As we have proven, all you have to do is put up a voluntary donation button and explain your site fees and people will donate to help you out, if they like your site. So there really is no excuse to become a paysite except wanting to make a living off of other people. And you really don't know what they are using that money for--food, porn, hookers, rent, plasma tv, etc


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Now onto the Wicked Sims Policy Changes:

The staff and I had a discussion about this and I decided to make the announcement today.

From now on if we have a pay item that looks good in our creation (sim/house/etc) we are going to include it and credit the original creator.

As for free items that are non-redistributable (like a creator says please do not include my mesh), it is up to WS Staff which they do:
1) do not include the item, link directly to the page it can be downloaded from
or
2) include the item and say "included to save you time, please check ___ for updates/more items/thank creator" and insert the creator's site or the page it is on at mts2/insim/etc


This is supposed to be fun and for a game, and EA says they intended for custom content to be shared freely, so that's what we will be doing--sharing freely and having fun

We will not be taking credit for anyones work, everyone will still get credit and linkage. We respect creators, as we are creators ourselves, and we appreciate the time/effort creators in the community take to provide us with wonderful downloads. We will just stop forcing you guys from having to waste your time "hunting" for files to make our creations complete.

We are not trying to destroy paysites or trying to get rid of paysite owners, nor are we saying that all paysite owners are evil (Liana for example, is sweet and friendly  )...we are just hoping that they will all become free and share everything with everyone as it was supposed to be from the beginning.

Now we know that this may upset some of you. If so, we will totally understand if you feel the need to leave and/or delete your account here. We just hope you can remain mature about it and not attack our creators/site. Also, this policy is just for Wicked Sims, our hosted sites are completely separate and have their own policies so please don't take your feelings about our policy out on them.


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If you would like to join a paysite discussion since we dont have one here, I would suggest reading this thread: http://forums.sims2community.com/showthread.php?t=41351 and joining in on their discussion (they've lifted their ban on linking to or mentioning pmbd/sfv like some other sites have recently)

Want paysite files for free? Go here: http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/booty
Want files from dead sites or creators that have disappeared? Go here: http://sims2graveyard.com
Want both plus "exclusive" or hidden items (like Simbella items)? Go here: http://simsfilevault.com

Please make sure you read their rules/guidelines before joining any of their forums. We are not associated with those sites, we are just providing links for you guys

Hopefully this will make you guys happier and save you time. We hope you continue visiting Wicked Sims and enjoy your time here!  

I hate to be annoying but their forum is down, so what is the announcement? Do I take it has something to do with meshes being included.

Well what does it say?  I can't get anything except the maintenance screen.

It says that EA has spoken out against paysites, saying that it is illegal to sell content - so WickedSims now allows file sharing (including meshes) and supports the booty  :D

Is there an official source stating this?

i might have missed something what did mts2 and the s2c do to change

Hmm problem...   The FFSS members voted to allow listing of sites that link to filesharing sites but not the filesharing sites themselves.  So if Wicked Sims were to have a recolour and say "get the mesh from [pmbd mesh link]" there would be no problem.   Unfortunately unless the members have a sea change (pirate theme pun there) in their views, Wicked Sims will end up off our list :(

and advocating paysite owners supposed "rights".  FFSS tries to please everybody instead of taking a firm stance.  

Hmm problem...   The FFSS members voted to allow listing of sites that link to filesharing sites but not the filesharing sites themselves.  So if Wicked Sims were to have a recolour and say "get the mesh from [pmbd mesh link]" there would be no problem.   Unfortunately unless the members have a sea change (pirate theme pun there) in their views, Wicked Sims will end up off our list :(

Why does everyone have to agree to abide by YOUR rules on THEIR sites? And all for what? A button and a link?

I like having the right to make my own rules and do what I think is right on my personal site without having to put it to a vote.

There was a vote at http://fffss.org/FFSSForum/index.php?topic=1940.0 and it was just under 20% of forum members wanted actual filesharing/pirate sites to be in the list.

The vote at http://fffss.org/FFSSForum/index.php?topic=2019.0 was to stop vetoing sites who simply linked to a filesharing site - and in this case it was just over 80% wanted us to stop holding the link against them.

So it looks like the majority of members made a clear distinction between sites that actually do it, and those that just are happy to send their users to pirate sites.  I am not sure why there was such a difference as in essence it has the same effect, but there you are.

One trouble is that there are a huge number of people here who would have swung the vote the other way, but as they have decided to boycott the site, they were unable to vote.  Go figure.  Sometimes displaying an attitude is more important than changing something you don't like, I guess.

It really amazes me how you can turn every subject around and mention the FFSS out of it.

Saying votes can be changed at any time is silly, because that's not normal, and I doubt anyone would even think for half a second about going to change their votes.  Generally there's a polling time, and then a decision is made, and then you move on.  If you want to reflect changing minds and ideals, you need to ask the questions again.

I think by now everyone is aware that you take every opportunity to say something unpleasant to me, and that is more important to you than doing something positive to bring about the changes you purport to want.

My comment didn't diss wicked sims. It expressed disappointment that a great free site wouldn't be listed. Bringing it up gave an opportunity for users here to do something positive about the situation, like voting for a change in the listing guidelines.

I'm sorry I really don't get it...why is Wicked Sims so "special"...is it famous? Or something? I've never even heard of that site before...so why is everyone like huzzah? LOL.  :wink:

One cannot accept the EULA and accept the Paysites at the same time. One must decide – http://www.tarox4sims2.de linked to PMBD, after the EULA is PMBD legally and only the EULA is obligatory.

 :wink:  Roxelane

My comment didn't diss wicked sims. It expressed disappointment that a great free site wouldn't be listed.

I have another meaning for it, and maybe that is what you meant to type, anyhow: FFSS = For Fuck's Sake SHARE!
My mind just goes a little bit odd now and then...

Wicked Sims is having a hosting problem.

http://wickedsims2.com/pleasehelp.shtml

/end derailment derailment

When I first heard about FFFSS I thought it was a good idea.. then I delved into the actual rules and it became clear to me that it's just an elitist group where same-minded sheeple congregate.

That site may not be a big deal to me or to allot of other people, but obviously it is important to some people and they are people who are FOR freesites. They may be self-important and in ways they may actually be hindering the anti-paysite movement, but their feet are at least pointed in the right direction.  

Wicked Sims is having a hosting problem.

http://wickedsims2.com/pleasehelp.shtml

/end derailment derailment

Hosting Problems -- Please Read Entire Page

Explanation of the problem:

Well I mentioned this a little bit on the forum, but I'm not sure many read it and things are getting worse. My host has now given us our 2nd warning that we are hitting our cpu usage limits -- 2nd warning in less than a week. Contacting customer support, I was told we are always hovering at around 20% and their limit is 25%. If it happens again, they will be sending me an email telling me I have 7 days to upgrade or close the account.

Funny how we haven't come anywhere near the other limits they've imposed on us, yet we are always dangerously close to this one? I asked them for logs or a report to show me this supposed high-usage and the log they sent me only showed about 10 errors. They explained to me that it's because of too many database queries, which makes sense I guess except the first time, the warning came when I was the only one on the forum lol, but the 2nd warning I totally understand since we have gotten alot of visitors on the forum at once lately.

I changed settings in the forum, I disabled searching, I've optimized all the tables, I've turned the forum completely off for hours at a time, I have done everything I can think of but apparently it's not helping.

Either we are seriously using up alot of cpu resources like they say we are, or they are trying to scam me out of money. I'm not sure which it is, but knowing webhosting companies, it's probably the latter.

Either way, it is not just my site that is going to be punished for this, but the others I am providing hosting to. So I am trying to figure out which to do: remove WS and the WS forum and put it onto a separate account, or move us all onto a Virtual Private Server by upgrading my current account. At this point I am not sure which to do. I mean, what if I move the forum onto another account (or change WS so its no longer forum-based) and they still claim we're eating up resources on the current account?

I have looked around and googled for hours and it seems like a Virtual Private Server would be good for us at this point since I don't think we need a dedicated server. The problem I am having is I don't know which option to choose, and I don't have the money to make any changes (and not because I spend it frivolously on vacations/porn/electronics/etc, it's just because my only income is Disability and I don't have a large amount of spare cash sitting in my bank account lol)

The last donation drive we did paid for a year's worth of hosting but it seems that after less than 6 months, we're in the same boat again. My host has agreed to refund the "balance" if we purchase a VPS from them (upgrade) but not until after we upgrade--which does me no good now lol

So why are you telling us this?
Well for one, I don't want to just put up a donation button and tell you "we need money, give now", I want you guys to make an informed decision about whether to help us out or not. And I'm sure alot of you WS regulars are wondering why the forum keeps getting turned off and when things are going to get better.

If you have advice or an opinion on what you think I should do, please use the contact form or email me at [edited]

For those of you who are tech-minded, this is what I'm being told to upgrade to: http://www.hostican.com/hosting/cpanel-vps.php I asked about a million questions about it and I think the live help guy was getting annoyed with me lol

6 months of the VPS-Rage will cost $300 (setup is free) and I don't want to pay a year in advance again because I'm guessing if we outgrow the VPS I will be leaving this host and I doubt they'd refund the excess if I leave lol

As I said before, I've looked around but the cheaper deals tend to not have alot of webspace/bandwidth and since we have 17 sites, we need alot and I would like it to be managed since I am not knowledgeable enough to have an unmanaged one. If you know of a better deal for a managed VPS please let me know so I can check it out.

Donation Drive?

Obviously I will need to run a donation drive. For how much, I don't know yet. I don't want to start a donation drive until I know the target amount I need to reach.

For those of you who are thinking about helping out money-wise: you won't just be helping Wicked Sims, you will also be helping the following websites:

Adored Reality
Dour Sim
eXpresSims
GLAMstuf
LaPink (IcedMango)
MySimSite
Nostalgic Sims
Oohlala Sims
Pernille's Pages
Poison Pink Lemons
Provocative Pixie
SherrieSim
Sims2Crave
SIMply Vogue
Sims2Graveyard
WS Daily Free Finds

So please take some time and think about it. I should be making a decision and posting up the donation drive and our plans soon.

Something to Look Forward to

For those of you who are WS regulars, we are going to be making some big changes to the forum structure to make it easier for you guys to find what you're looking for. This includes shortening the forum (no more scrolling through the mainpage), organizing the downloads by category (sims, houses, etc), and revamping all the stickies and info threads so they are easier to locate and read.

Now I know some of us like the idea of featured creators having their own sections; we will be making it so that the creators are still featured, and that you can still find your favorite creators' creations.

I would give more details about that, but I don't want this page to go on forever and I sort of want it to be a surprise lol

I would really appreciate any help you can offer since I have been sitting here stressing out about it for the last few days and still don't seem to have a solution.

Any questions, comments, or advice regarding this page, please use the contact form since the forum will probably be turned off most of the time.

Oh, it's most definitely self-important and is indeed hindering the movement because they're playing language games. For starters, the emphasis on "we are FOR freesites" makes me look askance at the whole deal. I've yet to hear of anyone taking an anti-freesite position, so explicitly stating your support for freesites as if it means something is a lot like party politics and a bunch of hot air.

glad you posted it here moondragon, but you might want to edit out the email addy and line breaks ;)
i think its a bit weird that inge hasnt started a ffss thread here but insists on derailing other threads here to mention it lol probably realizes no one would read that thread and is in desperate need for visitors  :roll:

Since they want to "be in bed" with both sides, maybe I should stop looking at them as being potential allies.

To be fair, I don't think that the FFSS has ever tried to please paysites.  Rather, they choose to alienate legitimate freesites, and call it collateral damage in their war against [paysites].

I want to know how we can help Wicked Sims get better non screwing hosting.

Well I am going to exercise my right to defend the FFSS in a thread where it has been attacked.   There are a handful of people here who dislike me personally and are trying to get at me by attacking what is a perfectly good and popular website.

You are also talking a load of ignorant nonsense about what it does and doesn't do, who runs it, who belongs to it and what the guidelines are.  Just because you can't actually be bothered to read anything on it or keep up to date with it doesn't make your invented version correct.

It wouldn't matter what I did with the site, the people who don't like me would continue to dislike me and would simply begin to attack me for different reasons.

I am not going to play old-man-little-boy-and-donkey any longer.  The poll over there will now be closed, and pirate sites will not be listed.  I believe that any sims creator, pay or free, holds the ethical rights to their own part of the work, and I do not approve of unauthorised filesharing no matter what EA says or doesn't say.  End of.

Well unless I decide to do the next thing I was thinking of, and start a Federation for Sims Pay Sites :)   Maybe together we can fight the unreasonable EA EULA...

The United Federation of Inges is irrelevant, anyway. They don't make content, they don't host content, they don't tell people how to really do any of the above. It serves no real purpose.

Anyone pointing people in the right direction, are not listed by your group of sites anymore.

I am not going to play old-man-little-boy-and-donkey any longer.  The poll over there will now be closed, and pirate sites will not be listed.  I believe that any sims creator, pay or free, holds the ethical rights to their own part of the work, and I do not approve of unauthorised filesharing no matter what EA says or doesn't say.  End of.

Well unless I decide to do the next thing I was thinking of, and start a Federation for Sims Pay Sites :)   Maybe together we can fight the unreasonable EA EULA...

Thank you for illustrating my point about people not being sure of their facts. This is no longer true. The last poll voted against the no-pirate-sites linking rule and we now DO list sites who link to PMBD etc.

If there was any guideline I *would* like added to Sims community ethics it would be that people actually know the facts about anything before they publish information

Still don't care for FFSS. You can do what you want Inge, the fact that I don't care for FFSS doesn't mean I have something personally against you. I just don't think it's that important anymore, because for me FFSS is too double.
You are probably going to say this next move of yours comes from caring for all creators, but you should realize not all creators care for you, paysite owners will simply shrug and be happy, continueing on doing whatever they want. Your sense of 'doing the right thing' is only helping them out, and this is woprking against your own goals.
You are 'respecting' a group of people in the community, who do not only not respect a games EULA, but who make use (abuse) all the free tools, all the free tutorials, all the free help they recieved on creating their stuff, then turned and put their stuff behind a pay wall.

Anyone pointing people in the right direction, are not listed by your group of sites anymore. You are simply creating an isolation in the free community.

Now if these creators weren't doing anything illegal I'd understand. Now if PMND was in fact doing something illegal I'd understand.

But you guys are now respecting the wishes of thise who are not only morally and ethically in the wrong, but are also doing illegal activities.
And then banning the mention of those who are supporting perfectly legal activities.

Since many people have allready pointed this out, and you just ignored it, this is where FFSS stands on this:



Paysites
* Use free resources provided by the community, to sell to the same community.
* Break EA's EULA, and are therefore breaking a law and subject to legal action
* Divide a community
* Lock their creations up behing a paywall, so that those who helped them achieve their knowledge about creating, cannot even get the creation.
* Tend to never educate other creators because of a sense of competition, hoard knowledge so they can protect their income
* The TOS and wishes surrounding their creations, are only created not to share, but to protect their income
* They are all about sharing? No.. not even after you pay them.

Seems like paysites are screwing over more than just EA. They are screweing YOU.

PMND
* Does not respect pay creators wishes for above reasons.
* Credits pay creators for their work.
* Removes files as soon as a site goes free.
* Provides payfiles that should be free according to EA

FFSS
Unlists free sites who link to PMND and bans linking to them.


And you still don't get why FFSS is actually helping paysites.
Maybe you are too proud to see it, but paysites have alot to thank you for. You are actively protecting paysites income and motivating them to continue on.

You once asked Delphy why payfile recolors are allowed to be uploaded, and I agree that does not help the cause... but the largest sites are allready allowing linking to PMND.  

What is the reasoning behind confirming paysites in their demands (my stuff is mine to sell no matter what EA says)?

followed by



Hrm.  I think Sybil would like her brain back now please.   :roll:

I was going to say that, but I think I was misunderstood purposely so Inge  wouldn't have to answer to the rest of the post.
Could you react to that part, just to know I didn't write all that for nothing? Can you explain why, knowing all that, you still decide to support and confirm payistes in this way?

Well I am not sure it's entirely a logic process on my part, but as a human being I can't help noticing that I have suffered a lot more unpleasantness from people who are supporting filesharing than I ever have from people who support paysites.  It's colouring my attitudes.

You'd be quite right - it's frustration speaking.  Now I am going to go and wallow in frustration away from this thread!  I don't have anything useful to add right now.

If Sims websites are becoming so expensive to run because of (imaginative) CPU as the host says, what do you do to change it?

I remember a few months ago, that someone left a guestbook entree warning about people trying to take down noukiesims2.net. I never found or got any evidence, but the SAME thing happening, the SAME way, after a site makes a stand against paysites like this, seems very curious to me.

Well, it is true that websites can consume a chunk of CPU, but this is not so much the fault of the website as it is of the clumsy, awkward bloatware that is  Apache. We were having major server load issues also, until I replaced Apache, and then loadage issues fell by a factor of 5-6. And thus we had room for Nouk. :P

There are a handful of people here who dislike me personally and are trying to get at me by attacking what is a perfectly good and popular website.

Ok guys, turns out Wicked Sims has been attacked. Regarding their error logs, Jess told me this:

'I am going through today's error logs and there are tons of ip's hitting us, trying to connect to files that never existed, causing insane amounts of errors. '

So it's settled, free sites are actively being attacked and a very illegal way. This is a new low.

And for those who enjoy a good conspiracy theory, zeldap has thread bombed S2C again... Hmm.

But really, it's only about the children.  The children need paysites to be safe in the world.

It was basically the same pro-paysite dreck disguised as the Delphy sex offender manifesto.

God, I miss all the fun stuff! :(

Edited:  Just wanted to add I never intended to be running the FFSS personally in the first place.  I was just lending the space and domain costs similar to what I did with the Poser Initiative.  The idea was I would just do the technical admin and it would be run by whoever the members elected to run it.  Eventually everyone asked me to take over running it because everyone was fighting.   I really really would not be sorry to be able to use this thread as my excuse to have a hissy and close the whole thing. :D

Inge, I don't personally dislike you, and I don't think I've done anything particularly rude. I do dislike all the rules and 'ethics' of ffss, and I have read the threads on your site explaining why things are the way they are. Here are what I think are some of the problems:

1. You're trying to protect everyone, and instead are disallowing each site to make their own policy. That may be okay to a small group of site owners that just don't want anyone to touch their stuff, but the majority of website owners leave places like MTS2 and Insim so that they have greater control over their stuff, not less. Asking everyone who signs up to abide by rules voted on and handed down as absolutes won't fly, the internet is not a democracy.

2. Having many restrictions on what is a 'free' site. In my opinion, any site that has 100% free content should be listed as a free site. End of story. Perhaps adding meshes from pay sites and that kind of thing makes sites like mine and Wicked Sims 'filesharing' sites, but first and foremost they are still free sims sites that are distributing original content created by the owner(s). They aren't sites dedicated to filesharing, and labeling them as such just muddles things more. I personally don't really care if my site ends up on your list, but in the cases of sites like Wicked, maybe you should amend your list to allow them, but with a disclaimer that they allow filesharing.

3. Riding the fence. The issue of paysites being illegal is just exploding in this community. For years, it has been considered bad form to speak out against paysites, but not anymore. So why are you offering them a modicum of protection? It may be that you and/or your group just don't want to get involved, but instead it looks like it's being hushed up.

4. No one outside of FFSS and a few at PMBD know or care what FFSS is. Seriously. You could blow it up today and no one would blink, and yet you have come in here expecting us to take it seriously that you 'have to' remove Wicked from your list. As far as we are concerned, Wicked has done the right thing, and you guys look foolish for trying to penalize her for it. The paysite people probably like the idea that you remove stuff like this from your list of 'reputable' free sites.

5. If you seriously don't want to do this anymore, don't.  Let them at eachother's throats, maybe after the dust has settled then they will have reached some kind of real stance, not this wishy washy business. Or maybe you should do what you set out to do, compile a real list of all free sites, without semantics and technicalities, and an open invitation for all owners to take part in discussion on your forum. Right now it is just people who generally agree sitting around patting eachother on the back. Instead of trying to get everyone to agree with the rules you guys have in place, why not allow every site to have their own rules, and use your forum as an open debate to wrangle it out? I think that would be more helpful in the end than what you've got now.

hmm i get lost with you people, heh, but yeah... here to put my little sense into this. ookkkk so i see people saying blah blah lol well im glad site are becoming non pay sites. and its dumb to pay, am i right! or am i right? :oops:

This is your third post.  I have read all three of them.  I don't understand any of them.  :?  You say you get lost with us?  :shock: