PMBD

Over at SFV, someone suggested that Reflex Sims might be the costliest paysite right now. So I did some calculations, based on a survey I've done of paysites.

Subs are THE way to get the most for your money. The average set costs about ten cents American each under a subscription system, if you downloaded them all in one month. (Your mileage may vary, of course...)

TSR, for all we hate them, does give us the best bang for our buck...with over 70,000 pay items available, you can get them downloaded for under a penny a piece. Of course, you have to pay them a minimum of $8.95 US, but the value is staggering.

For those sites charging for individual items, the rate goes up exponentially. Our winner? Vita Sims. Expect to pay $401.20 US for all 85 sets.

Other big winners:
Adult Sims - $156.80 for 32 sets
Sims2Studio - $132.16 for 28 sets
Reflex Sims - $122.72 for 26 sets

Sim Squirts was much higher, but since she's closing, she's reduced prices.

So while it seems outrageous for sites like Open House Jack to charge $20 for a lifetime membership, you're getting his current offering of about 150 sets for under 13 cents each.

Isn't greed fun?

Aren't you glad someone asked?

Aren't you glad I shared?

I personally am glad you shared - even though I didn't use the thank you thread (cause I figure that's for tidiness - busy people don't read it).  And years from now, I will think of all the kind pirates who paid where I cannot - just as I think of sims 1 creators fondly.

These paysite owners suck.

I am glad - I was thinking of this the other day and wishing I had dollar amounts in front of me so I could know what the owners of paysites are getting.

Over $400 for everything at Vita Sims. That's just fucking ridiculous. *shakes head* I've always thought that charging per set was friggin highway robbery, now there's proof that it is.

All the fucking games and and stuff are less than $400.  (£201)

Base Game £29.95
University   £19.95
Nightlife      £19.95
OFB            £19.95
Pets            £19.95
Seasons      £19.95

Family Fun   £9.99
Holidays      £7.99
Glamour      £9.99
Celebrations £9.99

Around £170 for all the game thats $337 Its sick!!!!

About Simsquirts (since it was mentioned here), on the front page.

"Before closing, I am offering the last chance to download all of the files from SimSquirts Donation Store for only $35.  This is a savings of ~$126."

Ok, now, why the need to charge for sets if your just going to close the site anyway? Just some more proof that the money isn't needed for bandwidth

ive never paid 9.95 for a stuff pack ive paid 19.95, where are you getting yours from lol. dont forget about rose donation hairs either hecubus. she charges like 2.50 per hair, and i know she has a bunch! that is highway robbery too. not to take paysites side, lol, the so generously offer a "savings" when you want to "donate" for a bunch of the donate items. i know that vita and rose offer this. hmmm, wonder how much im saving? good point on the sim squirts site. i get a fucking guilt trip when i get booty from that site lol, she just had like a 1 pound baby, STILL no excuse! (yea i know, a baby and paysites have nothin to do with each other, but that kid was lucky to have survived and what can i say, i have a very big place in my heart for kids)

Lily, she's quoting UK prices...note the handy pound sign.

 :shock:

To get all of Rose's files, you'd have to pay about $100. If you do the ten for $11.50 thing.

lmao sorry hecubus, i didnt even see the pound signs. being in america i of course think that all numbers with a symbol means dollars, i was just wanting know where she was getting such a great deal and where i needed to shop!  :lol:

Oo, that is reasonably interesting.  Makes me all the more thankful for the booty.  Thank you for sharing.

Wow, these sites charge more than Maxis/EA for Maxis' codes & animations ...! What.the.fuck.
   But how about Dincer Sims? At least $3 for every freaking OBJECT sounds like greed at its max!

THANK YOU PMBD!

You had me LOL.  :lol: That's what I was thinking.  I was mesmerized by her slideshow of her one-pound baby and I almost donated.  WTF?  Is she usin' her chilluns to make money?  :roll:   She's pretty clever if she's trying to guilt us into opening our wallets for one last time.  But I've never "donated" to her site and I won't start now.

I gotta say that's just sick! The last thing anyone with a seriously ill child should be doing is sitting in front of a computer, making sims stuff. And to use that child to try to get money from people. That's just repulsive. To be cynical, how do we know that it's even true? Remember Donna's "tragic death"?

What's "Donna's tragic death"?  Was it one of those people who makes up a fake sick child to gain sympathy?  Like in the "Night Listener"?  That was a good, but creepy movie and it's based on a true story...wait a minute, was the woman in that named Donna?  Is that who you're talking about?

she keeps talking about how he has "such a sweet face" or whatever... actually.. that thing creeps me out... seriously, I'm going to have nightmares.. babies in my family always run huge, like 10lbs or more, so that thing gives me the willies. Hooray for being alive, yadda yadda, but please, dont' shove the pics in my face, kthanxbai

Anyone remember back in early 2004 there was that 'fundraiser' for some womans "sick teenager in hospital"?

Raised a couple of grand if I recall....


....and odd thing, the medical bills were paid through the provincial health plan (free), and of course there was no accountability...people who raised questions about where the $$$ was actually going to were labelled "haters" and "troublemakers"      :?

Yikes, that's alot of moolah. People must really like their pixels alot to even consider* paying that much.  Makes you wonder.

Well done on the calculations.

~toodles.

To get all of Rose's donation sets separately, you'd have to pay 145$. But since her older hairs are special gifts now, she has more than 30 gifts and less than 60 sets, you won't get all of the gifts and possibly miss some of the early hairs.
Using her donation plans, you can "save" a lot of money: you can get all hairs (including the newest one) and all gifts for only 47$!!




Donna was a creator at eyecandy forum. She was a person who had to suffer a lot of tragic things, her boyfriend died, she had cancer and many, many more things she freely posted about. Several times she said that she'd retire from the Sims2 community.
Then suddenly her "brother" posted that she had commited suicide.
BUT: Apparently there wasn't a "Donna" ever! People say that "she" always was a "he", the "brother" who posted about her death.

Yep. Apparently he was a teenager who had strong dramawhore tendencies.

And her spectacular suicide was spoiled by the fact that he posted some of the  things he had showcased as donna a few days after his/her 'death' on another forum.

Shit, I hate dramawhores, beit real shit,or fake shit. In the real world, if someone keeps whining about the same lame ass petty shit, I tell them a quick rundown of my life so far, and then ask if they have any reason to bitch about their petty shit. Works everytime! My life: oh, 25 operations by age 30, quarter pound of titanium in lower face, 2 foot long rods hooked into spine for scoliosis, several suicide attempts as a teen, 2 car wrecks, 2 motorbike wrecks, 1 spectacular mountainbike wreck (road rash all down left side of body), case of scarlet fever at age 15 that nearly killed me................BUT I'M STILL HERE, AND YOU DON'T HEAR ME GRIPING AND WHINING ABOUT ALL THAT, do ya?LOL.........Yeah, that shuts their lil pie-holes real fucking quick!

While subs do seem to be the best value for money if there is only one item on the site that you actually want then you would be paying more for it than you would on a pay per item site.

Sweetiepie, VERY true. If you only want one item from OpenHouseJack, you're paying twenty bucks for that one item.

It's a racket, no matter how you look at it.

I'm a parent of a disabled child, so there's no reason to tell me I don't know this problem.  And don't treat us like idiots concerning preeclampsia until you can tell me what a sacral region myelomeningocele is.

And I know that when my son was sick, I didn't have time for a website - all of my time was devoted to him, not to making and selling content - simple as that.

Putting the pictures of your sick child on a blog for friends is one thing.  Sticking those same photos up on a retail site comes across as mercenary.

i was in the icu for a few weeks when i was little and my mom stayed as much as she could and only left to shower and sleep. And she only did that when i told her to leave since her snoring beside my bed was making it so i couldnt hear the tv lol

If my mom wasnt an e-tard, she might have had time to check her email or post a quick blog update, but not to load up a few programs (photoshop,bodyshop,etc), sit around for awhile making content, wait for the game to load to do screenies, then take screenies and upload the files through FTP and add them to new pages on a website?
That would take up alot of her day right there. Unless you own a website and create things, you dont know how long it actually takes (unless you're doing atwa crap and floodfilling everything). And she seems to be updating pretty frequently and posting frequently for someone who claims to be at the hospital all day everyday.

She has always asked for donations on the site, but now that she has a baby she feels the need to post up a giant slideshow of incredibly closeup pics of her sick baby and say "guess what if you donate now you'll save money!!" She even put that slideshow on the "light version" which is supposed to have less graphics and load quicker for those on dialup or slow internet. That seems like shes trying pretty hard to make money off of peoples emotions.  That's crap. Whether the situation is real or she googled for the images.

And I wonder why Chelle only registered to post in this thread and defend her.

Well if your location is in the USA, it would be about $19 but as I live in the UK its £9.  Thats about half of $20.  Anyway I was just quoting the original prices, right now you can get the base game and others for much less.

Okay I've been lurking here for oh so long and I love what y'all are about and I've read some of the funniest shit ever while lurking here.  I finally decided to register just so I could throw in my two cents worth.

I'm offended that Chelle would assume that people here wouldn't know what Preeclampsia is and also assume that not one person here is a parent.  My son who is now 5 was born over 2 months premature (due to PREECLAMPSIA) and weighed in at a whopping 2lbs.  He also lived in the NICU for nearly 9 weeks and I TOO was there with him day and night and the fact that my son is alive now is truely a miracle.  Great we got that all out of the way.  So here's my point.  I was sooo busy spending time in a hospital beside my son that the only pictures that were even TAKEN of him were a couple of polaroids and never did I have the time to get on the computer and even post those pictures let alone run a website and play a video game.  My time at home was spent sleeping and eating the occasional sandwich before heading back up to the hospital.  I don't think anybody was meaning to defame Carrie at all but you have to admit that it does seem maybe a little selfish (if that's even the right word)  to spend free time running a paysite.  Could be just me though.  All my thoughts and time were consumed by my son.  

So please don't disrespect those that are smart enough and can fucking spell and DID spend all their time sitting beside an isolette in the NICU for 9 weeks. Okay? Thanks!

ANd you know that none of us have a clue what preeclampsia is or that none of us have / know of disabled children?  Thanks for the asumptions.

 I always love the holier than thou attitude of "Unless you're a parent you don't know the meaning of love!" and even more vomit inducing, "Unless you're the parent of a sick child, you don't know heartache!" I've lost close family members, I've got a mother who's dying of a prelonged illness.  Who the hell are you to discount my pain so easily with this, "Only a parent understands!"  Who are you to say that only losing a child is true grief?

Pain is pain.  Heartache is heartach.  You cannot lable one persons pain less than anothers.  My heart goes out to any parent of a sick child, but my heart is also big enough to go out to anyone with troubles and not to judge one person's heartache more worthy than another.

I can't make any assumptions about you whatsoever. Unless you actually know her in real life, you can't be sure of anything and neither am I. It's pretty arrogant of you to assume anything about any of us.

I do know what it's like to have a deathly ill infant, and I sure as hell didn't have time to run a website then. I'm not going to splash my personal story everywhere, but I know what it means to be a parent.

I wish the child and their family all the best but I still find it offensive to put pictures up on a commercial website of a very ill child.

Yeah...but then there's the part about giving people like Atwa and Bunteh your bucks. I guess it's better than banging them, though.

(All though, literally banging them with something would work for me...)

This what I get for not being on the forum in months. I miss all the really great stuff.

 :shock:  

ummm....having sex with them is kinda not on the agenda

 :twisted:

 :shock: Thanks for the nightmares...  :shock:

Hm, always with the assumptions.

"omg r ne ov u guyz cretors?????  cuz tey spend a lo of time on their crations!!!!!!!  thy shuld get payd for there hrd wrk and ur steelign it!!!!  u jst dun undrstnd!!!!!"

And now we have, "Unless you're a parent, you don't know pain.  You just don't understand."

Does anybody know how many items (objects, clothes, hair, eyes, skin tones, walls, floors, etc.) there are in, say, the base game?

'Cause I think it'd be an interesting comparison (this is the kind of thing I think of while brushing my teeth) to calculate how much it would cost to buy The Sims 2 if EA Games priced it by pay site methods.

If I knew the number of items in the base game, or even how the hell I would search that to find out in less than an hour (hello, my name is Count Four and I am google impaired), I'd do the math. But it's already 3:30 a.m. The Carla Niven saga has kept me up way past my bedtime.

Yes, that would be very interesting to compare the two...but I dont see anyone counting them all up. Sims1 EPs used to say how many new items are included on them...cant see that on my Sims2 Pets EP =/ (then again pets was a rubbish ep, dont get me started on it) But if you worked out how each individual set costs on an EP, and compare it with a set from a paysite, I bet that the EP set is at least 10 times smaller...probably a lot smaller

Sorry. This is what happens when I see seemingly inconspicuous phrases like "bang for your buck." :P

The threads are so fluid.  Where to ask a question about Vita Sims?  Why not here.

I went to Vita Sims and was too dim to find the strange pay celebrities.  Are they still there or has she pulled the money makers?  

When I do a Google big brother search I get this:  "The requested URL /sims2_celebrity.htm was not found on this server."

Just looked through her/his site and they're gone!  Well, look what you guys have done.  All your bitching about them finally had them pulled. ;p

UMM, My daughter has autism, and I don't post pictures of her all over the fucking internet. Just my 2 pennies.

If you know Carrie personally, then why are you here trying to 'destroy' her paysite by downloading her content here and not paying the 35 bucks to help out her baby?  :shock: I just don't understand!

Oh, and what she did, posting a picture of 'her' sick baby on a site to the world, makes me think of a guy I saw on the street the other day. He was dressed in homeless attire and had his three kids standing out in the street with him asking for free handouts. He is just trying to manipulate the psyche of the people driving by, saying that 'If you don't give me money, then you are making my children starve.' No, you are the one doing that, by not getting a real job. Sorry if I got a little off subject.

And oh yeah... down to pay sites! lol

Can I just say a bit fat 'Fuck, YES' to your avatar, Sabi? Want.

A form of spina bifida. I think that's all that needs to be said because I certainly am not going to treat you like an idiot. (But, seeing as I answered your question, I reserve the right to do so in the future...  *runs* )

As for a sick infant, all I'm going to say is she's not the only one. It's damned arrogant to think she is. Some things just shouldn't be plastered on a commercial site. It's tacky.

That aside, I did "Ooh and Aah" over the baby. I adore babies and he is so cute!

You win a prize!  You win another prize if you knew it, but didn't look it up.

And you better run!

Our winner? Vita Sims. Expect to pay $401.20 US for all 85 sets.

ZOMG!  :shock:

Just to think.. somewhere out there is someone who paid that much. And likely there's one who did who's also complained that Maxis charges too much for their EPs.


I gotta say that's just sick! The last thing anyone with a seriously ill child should be doing is sitting in front of a computer, making sims stuff.

Well, I can see making Sims stuff in your downtime but I gotta agree with the other person who said that when you have said sick child that you're not likely to have much time to put into making stuff, testing it, taking screenshots, zipping them up, coding them into a website, promoting the website, hanging out on forums pimping the site, aaand still have time left over to make heart-tugging anims of your sick baby to rake in more donations. It does smell a little fishy. No, I don't have sick kids... I have 3 very healthy ones and as such, I barely have time to play the Sims much less make stuff for them. It's the reason you don't see me around here more: When I do have free time I tend to prefer to spend it playing the Sims rather than talking about them.

And to use that child to try to get money from people. That's just repulsive.

The perverse witticist in me can't help pointing out that charities have been using sick/underpriveledged children for years-n-years to milk the public for donations. :mrgreen:

I am a newbie here and I am wondering.. Exactly how much does it cost to keep a website open?

Simsquirts was one of my favorite places for toddlers clothes and kid and nursery bedding. Most of the site was free. I only paid once for a download and it was labled a donation set. It cost me $5.00. I didn't think that was too outrageous because I periodically donate to the other sites I visit to help keep them afloat, and most of what I downloaded was free. Simsquirts closed after she brought her baby home from the hospital and didn't have time to make more donation items so her donations stopped and she couldn't afford the cost of keeping the site open according to the email I got from her..

Sooo...while I think it is outrageous to charge a subscriber upward of 5-10 dollars a month to subscribe (TSR comes to mind here and eclectic sims), to play the devil's advocate for a second, what is a reasonable request to help defray the cost of keeping a website open?

1. I recommend you read the FAQ which is sticky-ed at the top of each section. Necromancy is bad.

2. You can get a good website with a very reasonable amount of bandwidth for less than $200 U.S. a year. That answer your question?

Yeah, what sparkle said.

And $0 is what should be expected to defray the costs of running a site. Besides legal issues, it is a hobby that we share. I expect $0 from other people to support my hobby.

I have a site that has a moderate amount of traffic and hosts a fairly active forum. I have a hosting package that gives me 100G of disk space and 1000G of transfer a month on shared hosting for $6.99 a month. A high traffic site with a very active forum may need a dedicated server package, but for most sims sites, that kind of deal is adequate. So why would you need to charge $5 for a donation pack, unless it was to make money?

Some sites have hosting packages that are a bit more expensive, but anything much higher for that kind of space and transfer is just bad shopping on their part. I don't expect people to pay for my hobby either, though I do accept donations to help defray the cost. On a given month, I usually only have to pay a couple dollars out of pocket, and some months not at all.

Reason is price range, if one site changes $5 then all sites will go to that range.

Never mind the fact paysites prices were first set when hosting was more expensive, TS and TS2 files are small compared to other games (take Oblivion, if you download a texture replacer you are looking at downloading something around or over 100 MB) and costs for Sims Sites are likely going down because you are getting more storage and more bandwidth without changes to your hosting package deal.

For me, ATS has the best value. It's the only place I subscribe to (before I learned of the paysite controvery) and you only have to donate like 5euros and you get lifetime membership. Which is nice because while 98% of the sets she releases are free, there are always a few extra cool items for donaters. Plus you can download the entire update in one zip, which is veeeeery nice.

Of course, now she's complaining that the donations are too low, and refuses to update until January unless 50% of her bandwidth bill is paid...  :roll:

You don't get it do you? Extra cool items for donators is PAY. We hate PAY. It is never acceptable to sell content. NOTHING is nice about ATS or any of the others. They are PAY. And anyone who says, "Oh, paysites are evil, except this one where I like to buy stuff..." is an ass.

Again, what Sparkle says.

Sparkle speaks for me (when she yells "more rum")

If you pay for "special items" then it's a designer saying.."this is free...but what I actually worked hard on...ummm...pay me for my hobby time"

And "life-time" membership (on many sites) is a few months...sometimes longer, but there is no guarentee.

Well, I'm not an anti-paysite fundamentalist, so I do see Sandy from ATS as different. I paid $5 two years ago and I can download everything forever. Even if you paid back in Sims 1 days, it's still true.

I understand why her stuff is in the booty, since she does run a paysite, but she's nothing like Nofrena or Peggy.

I agree, i did the same thing. I've donated twice, once like 5 years ago. I also understand why her items are in the booty, but she is at least a nice person to deal with. Once, i complimented her stuff (because i know creators get a lot of crap mail, so i like to send nice comments once in a while), and she gave me a gift in thanks. When i finally could donate, i wanted to. *shrug* Now you can all rip me to shreds for daring to make an exception in my own mind for one person. :roll:

OMG! How darez you??? They is all EBIL!!

I've always made a distinction between different site owners and what I consider the levels of evil. For example, ATS and Holy Simoly are less evil than TSR or Peggy. Yes, they still sell stuff, but ATS asks for a one time donation, and Holy Simoly may arguably have a pretty hefty bandwidth bill since they do have quite a bit of lovely free things. Charging for a donation set is still wrong, in my opinion, but for the price they were charging, the quanity and quality of the items in each pack has been substantially higher than most other sites.

Then there are sites that offer quite a few free things, and then put a small percentage of their stuff up for pay. Ebil? Yes, but again, I think less evil than a site that holds the majority of their content hostage, or only puts crappy shit up for free. Lastly,there are sites that are clearly only in it for the money. TSR, Peggy, etc. I consider these the worst offenders. In context of the booty, I suppose these distinctions mean very little, since everything pay ends up there.

accidental double post. My bad.

Exactly. I think that if I had to pay for something when I was younger and more naive, ATS was technically the smartest choice since it's a lifetime membership for the cost of like, one set at another paysite.

Again, I did this before I knew about the paysite thing. Since it's a lifetime membership, I can't go and cancel it, nor would I want to, because it's only 3$ and I get it forever. Like liegen said, this goes back as far as her Sims1 site (which is also very HQ considering it's TS1!) which was like three years ago.

I agree that there is a difference between someplace like Peggy and a place like ATS. Peggy charges ridiculously high fees for stuff that is ugly, gappy, and crappily animated. At a place like ATS, you can download 25 pieces out of a great, highly-detailed, often multi-recolored set that's 28 pieces for free. If you want three additional items for that set, as well as ALL of the extras on the site and the ability to download entire sets in one zip (which is very useful because she has so many fucking recolors of every object that you'd be clicking and unzipping 80times for one bedroom set) for 3$ and you only have to pay once for everything...

The three pieces are still pay, but considering you get everything else along with it, I don't feel like such a huge sucker paying the 3$ than I would for paying double for a shitty Rose hair.

Since you all have lifetime memberships over there, I sincerely hope you are putting all their pay files on the booty.

I am big time anti-pay. Period.
That said, I do think some PEOPLE who run the sites are okay. Maybe they are slow to get it, or don't get the reasons...or whatever....and others are greedy and fill their sites with craptastic stuff. Some designers are very nice people and others are crazy/bitchy/evil/all of the above and more.

That goes for free sites as well. Some are cool and others can be real ass-pains.

So if everything is equal.....I still am against paysites....I don't hate the people (except for a list I have of those who should be shoved into a veggie steamer)

Most of it's up there already; I think someone else (other than me) is keeping track of it.

Well... you guys been over at ats2 lately?

It's pretty bad speed wise.
I've never donated and probably should have considering the list of people I had donated to before. She is a lesser evil in comparison.

Still I am a cynical creature and can only wonder about the skidding speed of her site the moment she got angry about 1 in 100 people donating, blah blah, not good enough, blah blah.

Meh.

Really? I can download an entire update using the zip in about 30s. Some of the most recent updates have been smallish though; guess it really is sucking up her bandwidth as she's claiming.

Ah she's back to being fast.

I wonder if people started throwing money at her again

or she fixed her server or something

Well...either way...

*still cynical*

 :twisted:

I never said I approve of ATS, just that I consider it a lesser evil. I mean, yes, I consider a paysite a paysite, lets not mince words. However, I just don't rate all offenders the same. I guess part of it is because I like to think that Peggy and TSR have a special place in hell for being such terrible people, and there has to be people that are lesser to make them the MOST EVIL!!!

It is still bad, but I guess it's like this. All people who are convicted of crimes are criminals (theoretically anyway). However, the kid who shoplifts isn't the same level of criminal as the murderer. We still have to spank the kid's ass for stealing, but we aren't going to consider him the same kind of monster as the murderer. It's kind of like that, for me.

And no, before anyone who reads this goes to vilify me on TSR or some other shitty place, I am not really saying that running a paysite is as bad as murdering someone. It's simply an analogy that I thought apt to illustrate my point.

Well... if you want money for stuff you have no right to be selling

You're still a crook.

That has been the mentality here for awhile now.

ATS, Holy Simoly... the "lesser evil" still want money. It's supposed to be a hobby right? If they can no longer support their hobby they can upload to Mod the Sims 2 or Nouk will be happy to host their sparse files and the graveyard will take the archival rest.

Sims File Vault can also be an alternative. You want to keep going and have your own domain all nice like.. then ask for donations but don't get all shirty when they don't come. Pay up or ship out to other servers.

It's a freakin' hobby, its not supposed to feed your starving chilluns.
And if the pirates are keeping the paysite owners from crusin' along... then suck it up. Free content for all! Arr!

*shrug*

That may be the common consensus here at Pescado Land, but I can still have my own opinions and ideas. I know that Blue Soup (who I also don't believe has failed us :P) agreed with the idea that some are worse than others far before she and Pescado founded this place. I do agree that booty is booty and that everything you have to actually pay for should end up there, hence why I am here, and why I've been on board for this from the very beginning.

To paraphrase what I said before: Of course they are all wrong for selling paysite content, I don't contest that one iota. Every single one belongs in the booty with no exceptions. I still think there are varying degrees of wrongness, which does not excuse anyone, but separates the mildly evil, and perhaps still redeemable, from the big gaping flesh wound of evil that are TSR and Peggy.

Put another way: I want all paysites to go free, that is the ultimate goal. However, in my mind there is definitely a hierarchy in which I want them to fall. TSR and Peggy first for their terrible quality and the way they seek to milk every cent out of the community that they can. Then sites that are in it predominately for the money and don't even pretend to have any decent free comment (Exnem, for example), and then the smaller sites with only a few pay downloads.

I am sorry but I do not think we should group TSR and Peggy outside the "subscription paysite".

TSR is run by a company, if you look at their staff page you can see how many people are being employed to just run it.

Peggy on the other hand is pretty much one person show, we might not like her (even if she did some interesting things on TS days) but at least its not a school of remoras as TSR is.

Also TSR did some rather ... unethical things during the first days as MTS2 established itself (I remember those), even SimFreaks that are as much to blame as TSR in the state of affairs and operates in a similar fashion cannot be put on the same level as TSR.

TSR is the worst kind of evil because 99% of the shit there is awful.

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon that started this website. Y'know, the ol' "all paysites suck" schtick.

I'm not going to pass judgment on people who happen to have paid for donation items at some point. The booty didn't always exist, after all. And some of us were not aware of the option of booty. HOWEVER, to say, "well, some paysites suck less than others!" is pointless. Why? Because all paysites suck. They suck because they are trying to get you to pay for something that should be free.

Over-all Point #1: Lay off the people who have paid for donation items. Unless they're justifying doing it now. In which case, verbal thrash away.

Over-all Point #2: If you have the booty and know of the booty, what the fiddle-sticks are you doing still giving these jerks your money? (Obvious exceptions are people who are checkbook martyrs and give their money to paysites so we all can have them free of cost. These individuals deserve to be high-fived, and possibly sexually pleasured by a phsycailly attractive celebrity of their choice.)

I've hated lesser-of-two-evilism since 2004. It doesn't matter if somebody sucks less than somebody else, suckitude is suckitude, and should be discouraged. If they're such an awesome person, why the heddle-hay aren't they making their stuff for free, eh?

DONE WITH THIS NOVEL. I got to go buy my cats food before they eat me.

That's fine, we can agree to disagree on this one small thing, since we are all working for the same cause. But please, if we are going to do this, don't give me this "what started this website" business, because if I recall correctly, I was here and you guys were not. Blue Soup had just as large a hand in creating this site as Pescado, he provided the space and she (with the help of many other generous people, I might add) initially provided all the booty that everyone loves so much. And she and Pescado disagreed on this subject as well. They didn't let it stop them from making the site though, did they?

And really, where do you think all the booty comes from?? Of course people are still giving money to paysites for the items we have. And you know, it was once the responsibility of everyone in the filesharing community to help pay for shared items, not just a few "checkbook martyrs". Of course, that was back when we were all underground and people like most of you had no idea we existed. So yes, quite a few of us have no problem saying that we have and would pay for items, since we shared it freely. In my opinion, those of you that love the booty but would never dream about taking on any of the cost should thank your lucky stars that there are those of us that will. I'm not saying to kiss anyone's ass, but think twice before reaming people for having paid for items.

I'm sorry if that came off as being a bit bitchy, it kind of gets under my skin when people assume that there is only one right way to do this anti-paysite-filesharing business, since people have been successfully doing it way before Pes came on board. His contribution is by no means insignificant, since he took all the heat when he went public, but his opinion is not the alpha and the omega :P

I'm not hating on anyone here. I know I haven't been here as long as, well, a bunch of people. Never, ever, would I claim otherwise. I've a lot of respect for any and all who had a hand in building this awesome community. Sorry if I implied otherwise. But I do not think that this means my opinion counts for less. if this was the point that was being made, I resent it.

I'm just saying, what I got out of the FAQ and the vast majority of posts was that Paysites suck. What got under my skin was the whole "some suck less than others" idea. Which sure, is true. But that isn't the point. I don't think anyone should give money for pixels, regardless of how nice the creator is.

An exception was made to the people who give money to donate to the booty in my post! OBSERVE:



(lol @ my typo.)

My whole "stop giving money to the paysites" spiel was aimed purely at people who give money and do not donate to the booty. This was off of the observation made on some posts in this thread. If I was mistaken in reading that there were people who did this, please forgive my mistake.

BUT if the issues with my post was my opinion, I'm not apologizing. Regardless of Blue Soup and Pescado's varying opinions on the matter & their subsequent ability to make the site despite it, I do still hold the right to voice my own. Even if I didn't have a hand in creating the site, and only joined a few months ago (as is the case).

Nah, that post wasn't aimed directly at you, just venting in your general direction. Don't take it personally.

I get a tad frustrated sometimes is all, and me being here longer than any other particular person really is neither here nor there, except when people assume they know all the exact whys and wherefores on which it was founded. It wasn't like it just appeared magically and everyone had rum and cookies, there were some disagreements in the process. I would rather people didn't take Pes or anyone else's opinion at face value as 'the right one', since that would just make us a bunch of sheeples. I in fact agree with you 100% that no one should charge anything for any pixels. The less or more evil thing is not me trying to justify anyone charging, but really it's me idealistically holding out hope that some of these misguided creators can be brought to see the light. It has happened before.

I know that you weren't taking shots at people who pay money for the booty, I just borrowed your term. That bit wasn't really in response to what you said, I guess I should have made it clearer that it was more of an elaboration of what you said before.

Don't take what I said personally, it wasn't aimed at any one person.

Well, cool beans! :D

And yes, sorry for the misinterpretation of your post. I just wanted to make sure I was making myself clear, y'know?

I was around before 2004.

Many of paysites did not started as such, TSR was once free as well as SimFreaks and many other sites that were paysites when TS2 was released.

Take SimSkins, when SimFreaks and 8DS pretty much cornered hair (and head) meshes with the 800 and 900 series they were a free alternative until they started to switch to more donation items and one day they started a subscription system.

Sure they did not moved very well into TS2 (like SimFreaks) but they were a example of what happened, there was a transition and as there are certainly people that started with a paysite I believe the majority started as free sites.

I do hold TSR and SimFreaks responsible for it, they were community landmarks and the moment they realized they could make money out of the said community members they sold out, I know there was payments during TS days before that situation was exposed in TS2 days.

In fact in the end of TS days I heard a rumor, the rumor was EA was considering hosting some sites but who they invited? TSR and SimFreaks ... its any wonder about that never materialized?

It's funny to those of us who have been around for a long time that the pay community freaked out when PMBD showed up. What they failed to realize was the MINUTE that WDS and SimFreaks, etc. went pay? A lot of folks at N99 started sharing payfiles privately thru emails. We even discussed who would get what stuff and when from what sites.  :lol:

In every argument there lays shades of gray to support a "for" and an "against".

There is a LOT of gray here.

I'll just blame EA for the way they let the ocean of Custom Content run awry.

The minutes the merchants sailed in, so did the pirates.


Did I just paraphrase the last 4 posts?

excuse me..

*continues making Peggy voodoo doll....almost ready*

Meh, very few things are black and white. I understand the need for clarity in what goes in the booty, but I'm not going to get worked up over minor paysites. If they all were like ATS, this site wouldn't exist. Of course it would be better if she went completely voluntary, or joined up with Nouk or MTS, but it's not worth getting worked up over.