PMBD

http://modthesims2.com/journal.php?do=showentry&e=1062

She deleted her skintones before I could grab them and I wanted to know why... :cry: I found her journal entry.

I was right about to download the skintones too when it said that HP had removed them.   But on her journal, she does say she might come back so I'm crossing my fingers!

Oh wtf. Not a week ago she said she wasn't the type who was gonna take her toys and run home. Shit like this is precisely the reason that I instituted that new policy on my site. One little upset and poof, gone.

Usually when creators do that it means "if you beg me enough to come back and kiss my ass alot, I might come back but if I dont, blame [insert evil person or site here], the bastard(s) made me leave!"

I cant believe this shit... she just said not even a WEEK ago that she's not that type...

Something must have happened behind the scenes.. there has to be a conspiracy some fuckin where because THIS SHIT makes NO sense..

where the hell is the bright red "mad" smiley face???

grr

Well the rest of her downloads still seem to be up, so she's not taking all of her toys and going home.  Maybe something happened specifically with the skintones that made her yank them and say she was leaving/stopping/etc?  Guess we'll see soon enough.

I know some people were starting a "why no nipples on the female" type debate on the skins before they disappeared.

I just checked and there are several items still availiable..

I wonder what the hell happened.

I'm having a major "WTF" moment here.

oh my.... *grabs hair before its gone, even thugh i might not use it...ever*

:)

Oh you too?  I thought I was only one reading the blog with
this --->  :shock: look on my face..

I think she'll be back after a break.  There's lots of reasons why a person might disappear, and speculating and talking shit about her won't make her come back any sooner.

I'd really appreciate it if we could keep the fucking smacktalk to the paysite owners.  The ones that do decent free work should be allowed to take a break once in a while ya know?

If she needs a break she should say "I need a break from this tireless bullshit, I spend way too much time on this and im fed up" that would give us a good idea that yes, she needs a break and she'll be back.

Im not talking shit about her, im SHOCKED as her own words a week ago had me yelling at my screen saying "YOU GO GIRL"!! I love her sims, her skins and her hair (curly seraph is my favorite).  

That blog is insinuating she's gone for good which initially shocks anyone who reads it and enjoys her work as I do.  

I know how much work it takes to create the art that she does, so I dont blame a Vacation if you will.  But you can feel her anger in that blog and all im wondering is "what the hell happened"...

I smell a rat

I dunno. It doesn't seem like "I'm taking my toys and going home" so much as "ARGH THIS FUCKING GAME" and I'm sure most of us have been there at some point.

I do hope we're over-reacting and her frustration with the game is simply that.. a frustration with the game.  That shit frustrates me too! LOL

Shes too good to give up.

Maybe it has something to do with the whole thread about putting meshes on a site. Didn't she stress that it wasn't right to put her mesh since it was free? Maybe she got fed up with people doing it and decided to quit? :( I will miss her

hp IS  fullof it or put em backup take a look at this link
 

http://modthesims2.com/member.php?u=31337


http://modthesims2.com/download.php?u=31337&showType=1



she just wants attention all her downloads  are still up

She never moved anything but the skintones that very few people had even seen (namely me)

Did you read anything at all?

Hmmm.. here's a novel idea. Sometimes taking a break is just that, taking a break.

Willing to pass them my way?

I hope it's just a break.  HP makes the best short hairstyles.  I think it's just frustration because I know she spends a ton of time to perfect everything that she makes.  I know just downloading and playing the game can be addictive and frustrating, so I can't even imagine making downloads on top of that.  I would have even less of a life than I have now.  :shock:  If it isn't a break, and she's gone for good, I think we should congratulate her on officially getting a life outside of the sims world.  :lol:  


Julie =)

Well i say we should let her do whatever she wants, she hasnt taken everything down and whatever the reason she took her skintones doesnt really matter that much to me..its not like shes obligated to anyone...Hope she gets a chance to relax and like Julie said enjoy her life outside in the real world!

*sigh*

CARLYMICHELLE, I hope you're not a member of Be Less Stupid!  I might have to boot ya.

I've got the skins too, and I made a comment as I love all her work and she was mentioning in that thread that she was borderline leaving and that there was another game that she liked a lot and was creating for it.  But I missed all the drama about the skins having no nipples, but you know, she was already warning the people as they were downloading the skins, that if things didn't get better and the community didn't get more into the spirit of sharing she would probably leave.  So I don't blame her, she just followed through with her warning, but it pisses me off that stupid people would bitch about something that was created freely and shared freely.  If they didn't like it, they shouldn't download it, it's as simple as that.

I agree - there are too many people who bitch about free creators as if it is their right.  That's what annoys me so damn much about the pay creators - they expect the same kind of respect that free creators get.  

That's an important distinction that needs to be made for the above posters - HP and all other free creators aren't enslaved to us - they do it out of altruism, love and talent.  If you don't like it, don't download it, don't go out of your way to be a wanker.

Paysites are free game.  They charge money for a service, something they're not supposed to be charging for, and they're complete and utter bastards. Give em hell.

Yes, it's very disappointing news.

well I know how boring and frustrating creating can get, I know of so many creators that are bored to death with creating. Inlcuding me, 2 weeks ago. So i only made one sucky hair.

Some people totaly lost focus on things here and continue to behave like
morons and idiots in one way or another...
This behavior will not generate more free cc in the community.

Going after and against creators who create free cc by ignore theire policys is not only disrespectful. It´s so fu***** stupid. Actions like Ligensc...what ever, will only split this movement.

Come on. Don´t loose focus. Free cc to the community and all cred to creators who share there work for free.

You can't lay this at liegenschonheit's feet. If HP is pissed because her free meshes are being uploaded with recolors of her work then that's her problem and smacks of egoism and because there's ego involved you can rule out altruism as a reason for her sharing her work. :roll: Sharing meshes with recolors just makes sense. Imagine of one of the major sites pulled all of their meshes - there would be sites whose content would be virtually useless because none of the meshes are available, so, now we've lost more then just the one site. I can just hear all of you flipping sides and bitching about the stupidity of creators who won't allow their meshes to be shared as soon as your impacted by sites closing and taking all their goodies with them. No wait, I've already heard the bitching.

Any creator has the option to take a break, none of them are enslaved to us - people need to think before they write some of this shit. Pay site owners just need to make people aware that they're going to stop updating before they go spending all of their ill gotten profits.

The main problem with the Sims Community is that we're greedy little bitches and bastards. In other gaming community mods are more or less open source. As long as you give credit to the originator of the mod you can use a piece here or a piece there and create something new or make an improvement and share it freely. Not so in this community, people's egos and need of constant ass kissing has gotten in the way of that.  

In a nutshell,  I say bravo liegenschonheit for taking a step to bring us back to where we ought to be.

I'm staying out of this since I was called a bacteria when I criticized HP's TOS.  It was an opinion and at least I said it to her face, I hope she didn't mistake it as plain bashing.  Quite honestly I think she really gives a lot to the free community and I wish her well.

It's probably healthier for HP to take a break. Her reaction to the mesh thing was hard to understand. She's made other comments that make me think the whole thing was out of perspective for her.

People at MTS2 can be such morons though! The stuff is free there, and yet they are forever whining and PMing creators. They are sooo demanding, and every effing time they ask for hair, models, nipples etc. I even get some of that and my stuff is lame. I did see the skintones, didn't download them though. I can see how that would have pushed her over the edge. They used to pester Enayla no end.

She doesn't have to create a damn thing for anyone if she doesn't want to. She's not taken down her stuff, that takes maybe 5 seconds to check, it's all still there. Even if she did, it's up to her. As far as I'm concerned, free creators can do whatever the hell they like.

She took down her skins though - I downloaded, went back to check her recolour policies and they were gone.

While I appreciate the immense amount of work she has done, and of course everyone needs a break, especially one as hard working as her, I think that to take them down sent out the wrong message. But then everyone does things while they're cross, right?

Basically I'm on the fence for this one - she's a brilliant creator, she's done a great deal of hard work which I for one thouroughly appreciate and to top it all off she's free BUT her strop over meshes, and pulling her skintones has done her no favours.

Better to leave with the dignity she deserves, is what I'm rather longwindedly trying to say.

EDIT:
She's reuploaded the skintones. All credit to her for that and I wish her well. She was one of my favourite creators.

I have seen recolors of HP's hair and she honestly didn't seem to mind, as long as they gave her credit for the mesh, which they did. She does wonderful work, and it's not our place to question her motives or emotions. The gal needs a break. For how long? Until she feels like doing a damn thing. She is not our prey, she is a God send to us who love free cc. The paysite assholes are the prey, NOT our free creators. If some of them have an ego, and I am NOT saying she does, I rather think they deserve to. They can do shit that I will never have the talent or abilty to do. Will I bow to them? NO. But I will give the praise that they deserve. We need to support our free creators and not whine and bitch when they get sick of the bullshit/politics/assholes that they have to deal with at times. We need to realize that they are just as human as we are and let them take the time they need. They have needs too. I admire anyone (free, of course) who can make good shit and give it away for little more than the praise of "well done". And maybe a thank you. I admire anyone who can do shit just because they think it's right and just. I hate anyone who demands money for work based on someone else's. It takes guts/balls/altruism to do what this site and our free creators do. I just would like to say, thank you and well done. 8)

Don't even try to lay this one on me. I uploaded one mesh to my site because I used it for a recolour, and I explained why I did it and that yes, it was a violation of her TOS but that I can't play favourites. I have never bashed her, called her creations bad, criticized her unfairly, or been otherwise disrespectful of her personally. If anything, I've been on the receiving end of crap from people who are sticking up for her and her TOS. (Sorry, but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Either everything is owned by EA and we can share as we see fit, or it isn't and we should not share even the pay stuff. You guys can't have it both ways. Posting meshes is not the end of the world, or attacking free creators, it's common sense.)

If HP needs a break, then she deserves one. MTS2 is a great resource, but it also is a haven for some of the most childish and spoiled people outside of the BBS. If she is frazzled or fried, then take the time off. I've had to do it myself, and I'm nowhere near as in-demand as HP.

If HP quit the community (someone please point out where she ever said she was taking a break?)  because of Lieg, then she is being whiny baby and acting just like the paysite creators who have quit... for the same reasons. (people sharing their work).

I dont know why HP quit, but I dont think that Lieg was the straw that broke the camels back.  I suspect it had something to do with her skins (seeing as that was the only thing she pulled) from MTS2.

If she quit, then she quit.  I'm sorry to see her go, but I can't imagine anyone sticking around and doing this forever.  It's a hobby, and if anyone is like me, hobbies are something that come and go.  Let her move on to things that are more interesting.

I expressed my suprise in an earlier post because, frankly, I thought that the message she left was vague, and very dramatic.  If you had asked me before this whole thing came to my attention if HP would have done something so utterly similar to all the dramatic exits we've seen lately, then I would have said "no".  Apparently I was wrong, I don't see anything wrong with being suprised when people do something that you wern't expecting.

That said, I still respect HP, and I still love her creations.

Paden , you realize that you're philosophy is probably one of the reasons pay sites are around and so widely accepted. The hyperbole of your post  kind of justifies a creators belief that they deserve to be paid for their time and effort. Granted you're praising free creators, but once upon a time they were all free. The whole sim community was free to all but then you had people spouting crap like "You're a God send." "What would I do without your creations in my game?" You are the god/goddess of whatever type of crap you make. At some point they realized people would pay them for the very stuff they were giving a way for free and then pay site after pay site sprung up from the bowels of hell and consumed us and we still said "OMG, you are the greatest thing since toilet paper; can I have your baby?"

No one owes us a damn thing and we don't owe creators anything beyond a thank you for sharing their work with us and credit when we use their work to make something of our own. I respect the talent of the people who have the ability to create for the game but I'm not going to give a way my option to express my opinion about their work or their attitude within the community - pay or free creators. When you find a creator who doesn't have a policy on their shit other than have fun with it then you'll have found an altruistic creator, but, as long as they have terms and conditions they are not creating for the love the creation but for the praise and idolization they get and often demand from us.

Sorry for the missunderstanding, I never said that Ligen is the reason why HP made her decision. (Who knows the exact reason, more than HP?)
I said that I do not  agree with Ligens way to treat a creator who are all for free cc.

Right here (http://www.modthesims2.com/creator/showthread.php?t=221480) near the end of the post.

Ah thanks, I guess I didn't see this because it didn't exist until after she reuploaded her skins?

If she wants to quit or take a break, then it's her progative.  Kid, it's like you said,  Creators and downloaders don't owe each other anything.  Where I don't agree with you is where you seem to think that praising creators is bad?  Do you know why people make CC and make it public?  Because they think other people may enjoy their work too.  There arn't many creators who would keep creating if they didn't think anyone liked their work (maybe Carlew).  On the same note, as you mentioned, it is very easy for praise like that to go to some people heads.  They start thinking they really ARE gods gift to TS2.

I know I am. Phear me! Where would you all be without my shiny, shiny downloads???

Oh right, you'd download from someone else. Bleh. :P

Also, how am I mistreating anyone? By uploading a mesh to my site with full credit and links and cookies (okay, the cookies part is a lie)? I am not mistreating anyone. How can you justify violating the TOS of pay sites to redistribute their work by pointing at the EULA, then wave the TOS of free creators (I said NO FAT SIMS, DAMNIT) like they are sacrosanct? Please. Yes, I love and cherish our free creators, but I also love and cherish the downloaders in the community, and they seem to hate it when they have to hunt for meshes.

Kid, I never said that anyone was a god/goddess. I never said that paysites were good. I believe in giving praise where it is due. Positive shit has the effect of encouraging more of the same. Now, there are some assholes out there that choose to take the praise as encouragement to make a buck. Fuck them. As soon as money comes in, quality goes right down the shitter. I'm not an asslicker, I have learned that telling someone who does a good job the truth is little more than common courtesy. If they choose to get a swelled head and go pay, then they become prey because there is nothing worse than an ego gone amok. I can do without the cc. I have before. I will again if I deem it needed. But for people to do this and expect nothing more than a thank you and a well done in today's world of fuck you, you'll like what you got even if it's shit and you'd better offer me your first born child, left kidney and half of your liver, I find the attitude refreshing when all they want is the said thanks and praise.  :roll: Paysites are evil. We know this. But it is just as evil not to say the courteous things, about like kicking a kid when they color a picture for you or a puppy who wants to say hello when you get home. I don't go overboard, and if you think I do, we disagree and I will leave it at that. I'm sure there are things we do agree on or both of us would not have found our way here. True? And I'm not blaming anyone for HP's breakdown, it happens to everyone sooner or later when they get caught up in something so much that it becomes addictive. Look at parents who attend t-ball games and want the coach drawn and quartered. That said, Booty rocks. Paysites should be buried under them. And remember, joke 'em if they can't take a fuck. Or is it the other way around... As for my philosophy, I'm a parent, that should explain alot!

<3<3<3  No one doubts your loyalty to the downloaders.

liegenschonheit, you know there are more nuances than just black and white... And there exist more people in this world than just you. Breaking free creators policy don´t bring us more free cc in the community. End.

Did you read that part before you posted Scribble? Insulting free creators doesnt get you more free content either jackass

Oh scribble, you've converted me! What was I thinking being so utterly selfish by trying to make it easier for downloaders to get what they need? Obviously we should hold free CC creators on a pedestal and do whatever they ask because they have the decency to not charge us! I am deliriously misguided, thinking that credit and a link could ever be good enough.

Blah. Whatever, I'm done arguing. Obviously hypocrisy (oh sorry, nuances and shades of gray) is okay as long as everyone gets what they want free.

For the record I have absolutely no problem giving praise for work well done or even to a person in the community that goes that extra inch to help someone out. I just have a problem with the exaggerated praise you so often see. How many times have you downloaded something that people have praised to heaven and back and then when you get it in the game it has overwritten a maxis object, looked like crap or crashed your game? Personally I can't bring myself to do more than say thank you or comment on how lovely the object looks when I first download it.  After I've gotten in the game and checked the stuff out, I'll go back and add further comments but I don't gush and, in fact, I find gushing tedious. I firmly believe that everyone should have a life outside of the sims and I'm the last person you'll see bitching because site x hasn't updated in a week. If HP needs a break, she needs a break but why leave with a post like that? Her "Aside" comment annoys me too but it probably only bothers me. (hmm, did I go off on a tangent there?)

liegenschonheit is spot on when she says you can't pick and choose who's TOS you follow and who's you don't  - if you start doing that you set up a double standard and double standards suck. If I had a site for my recolors I would do the same as she has and include the mesh. I've seen the some of the few recolors I've done claimed by others, hell, they didn't even have the brains to change the internal file tag. I simply don't care.  I made it for my enjoyment but once its out of my hands I could care less what happens to it (that's not being altruistic either). If they feel a need to take credit for someone else's effort then that's their esteem problem not mine.

Point taken. But seriously, and I won't get mad, but do I gush? I really don't mean to! Friends? *holds out hand, hoping not to get it bitten* I don't gripe if they don't update, but I sure as hell wish I had the skills and talent to do that myself. I have tried and it was worse than Carla's, if you can believe it. And that was just a set of eyes! Ewwwwwwww!

liegenschonheit, I understand your motives.  However, in this type of instance they are probably counter-productive.   To say nothing of hurtful towards a perfectly decent and unselfish person.

Sorry but I have to disagree. Having a package completed with a mesh is much better for the downloader, and ofcourse the creator gets full credit and a link, but if they don't want it for some reason, then I think it would be better to just not use their mesh, send them an email explaining what you want to do and why, and if they would consider changing policies, because it won't hurt. If they still refuse, don't force it on them, but just don't use their meshes on your website anymore. When more and more sites adopt this policy, creators will see that it's not very convenient to do.
However if you upload without asking or carinf what they say, it will be seen as something negative, and that works counterproductive.

Now no sane creator would quit over something like this and I'm 100% sure that HP didn't. But if someone makes something for free, asking nothing in return only that the mesh stays somewhere, why take even that away?

That's the whole point. If you want people to use the things you make, you have to make it easy for them. Everybody uses simchic meshes because they allow redistribution. HP's are much better IMO, but will always be used less unless she changes her policy.

Lieg has taken the direct approach, but most people will either not use them at all or try to pass off the work as their own. So by not allowing redistribution of meshes, creators shoot themselves in the foot. It lessens the liklihood that their work will be used and less people will come to their site and give them warm fuzzies.

Control and wide distribution are mutually exclusive.

^Gotta agree with you, there. That's sorta what people were trying to say before she flew off the handle in the other thread and insulted us all. Which really lowered my respect for her more than a couple notches.

And FYI guys, she's not leaving completely. Read her latest entry.

O god, i hope she comes back she was one of the best freshfaced creators in our community. Plus she was all free.

Well, she could have done without the whole dramatic "I gotta take a break from this horrible community" crap though.

Just don't upload anything for awhile until you feel like it.  Creating should be fun and if it's no fun anymore, then take a break.  But don't start shit by talking about how bad the community is.  All that is going to do is start a bunch of shit... :roll:

(i.e., this thread)

 :?

I'll never understand why folks do this in this way.  My husband was a mesh creator for the Sims 1 and never acted like this, even when people said nasty or mean things.  He just had a much healthier attitude about it all.

He created things he wanted and liked and if other folks happen to like it that was a plus.  If folks didn't like it or bitched about it, so.  He never got caught up in the immature drama.  He got tons of emails from immature little 12 year olds screaming for this and that and telling him what he should make and so on.  He just laughed and blew it off.  He never asked for thank yous or praise and he never expected it.  If people did, that was a bonus.

If it is bothering you so bad that you feel you have to yank all or some of your stuff and rant about how bad it is, then maybe you might want to find another hobby that is not so stressing to you.  Taking a break is a great idea, but don't throw a fit and then come back the next day like nothing happened.  I agree with others that everyone at some point or another needs a break or just simply gets tired of doing it.  That is totally understandable.  

Sometimes people forget it's just a game and take things way too seriously.  It is just a game to me and that's all it ever will be.

I understand what you are saying but just think if she hadn't said that somebody would have made a thread here asking where she disappeared too :lol: And then we'd have the whole Sims 2 community Pm'ing her and asking her where she was :lol:

wouldnt that (people missing her) require her to be gone for longer than a day?
Taking a break from creating would just mean not uploading for awhile. And I agree, most creators need a break away from it--sometimes several breaks a year lol. If she went awhile without uploading someone might pm her and ask about whether shes ever going to upload again, but taking a break from the community would mean being gone, removing yourself from it, and it doesnt appear that shes doing that at all.
So her outburst and shit-talking about the community was unnecessary. It led to more people checking out her threads though (people are suddenly posting on them more often now too) which is what she said she wanted before she had the outburst.

Well she must have chosen her forum name for a reason :D   If she doesn't manage a hysterical paroxysm at least once in her simming career what's the point of it?

I'm sorry Liegen...why didn't you just...link to her mesh? It's not *hunting down* blahblahblah which takes forever...uuuuh...no? Seriously. If people don't appreciate the work and effort it takes to make a mesh and at least spend like...20 secons to click a link, wait 'til it's loaded and then download from MTS or whatever shitsite...meh. Screw those people then. Because they'll be the first who'll fall at your back.


It's just pure lazyness and ignorance and it doesn't help free creators. Period

Darkangel, try reading this thread and the related one that was started by lieg before asking questions.  This question has already been answered repeatedly!  Pot. kettle. black. on the laziness you accuse her of.  So, for shame!  Shame on you!  ;p

Yes, absolutely. People come on, how about focusing on the target? We're still at the beginning of this "war" against paysites, and things like liegen's arrogance against a free creator aren't particularly helping, IMO. Honestly, I fail to see how sharing HP's meshes no-matter-what or mocking her TOU or now criticizing her because she took whatever break without expressing herself in the way she should have etc etc could bring anything positive and good in our fight againt paysites owners :roll:  

missangelica, I think that question could be asked over and over again since the answer still makes so little sense to some of us :lol: (Oh, and I think it was meant as the downloaders' laziness rather than liegen's laziness  :wink:)

But that would mean she'd miss out on all the "kiss her ass" posts begging her to to come back and they will all be good, they promise!   :roll:

Inge, HP's name is a euphemism for orgasm. In the 19th century when hysteria was a medical condition one of the treatments was to visit the doctor for an hysterical paroxysm.

I want to go to THAT doctor!

Enough about liegen's policy. There's nothing wrong with it and I'm behind her 100%. It's not going to change, this thread isn't about it and there's no point in continuing on about it.

I don't know about that - some officious Victorian doctor, with a beard, clinically using a vibrator on you??  :? (That's how the modern vibrator got it's start - for the treatment of hysteria)  :lol:

And I thought it got its start as a "back massager", lol.

That's how it was put to commercial use - before that, doctors used them (suppose their fingers got tired  :lol: )

The funny thing is, the doctors never realised what the reaction really was.

Men... ;)

___
Edited to add:
HP isn't gone, just taking a break. Read her latest blog entry here (http://www.modthesims2.com/journal.php?do=showjournal&j=22).

Agreed. The focus on Liegen is meaningless and hardly effective. Scrutiny should be upon the ridiculous and obnoxious; the paysite owners.

To be fair, neither did most of the women. Sex back then was supposed to be for procreation, not pleasure. No wonder the poor women felt better after leaving the doctor's office.

Thanks for backing me up guys. I don't expect everyone to agree with what I am doing, but attacking me and blaming me for things I had no part in makes me want to stab myself in the eye with a rusty spoon.

or someplace else.......with a back-massager

 :lol: