PMBD

The Sims 2 base game cost me $29.99 USD.
The Sims 2 - University cost me $29.99 USD.
The Sims 2- Nightlife cost me $29.99 USD.
The Sims 2 - Open for business cost me.. guess how much..

$29.99 USD.

*adjusts glasses*  Now lets do some math and add some state tax to that.. the total is approximately: $127.35

Now.. I plan to also purchase seasons, so add another, you guessed it $29.99 plus tax

Where are we?  We are at $164.55 total spent on this social-life extinguisher of a game.

Tell me something... Why the fuck would I pay a monthly subscription cost on TOP of that??? Lets say I was in a freak car accident and bashed my pretty skull on the steering wheel and became a virtual dumbass (even moreso than I already am) like say.. people who subscribe to Peggy for example...  :idea: and decided to pay for a $10.00 a month subscription to get stuff for the game..

10 multiplied by 12 months in the year is..

well shit I dont know.. I'm a public policy major.. but I digress...

My point is, thats too much fuckin money dude...

Heres my story:

Awhile back on Insim, I asked about that cute hair I kept seeing with the little twisties on the side that go into a side ponytail.. i said "gee, that hair is awesome, boy would I love to have it"  then I found out I had to pay for the shit ... when I received an anonymous link to the site that shall not be named with a simple message that said "dont say shit"...

I am forever indebted to the folks who created this masterpeice of a site.. so i stopped downloading long enough to introduce myself.. *hint*
I create shit too ..free shit.. ;)

OH BUT WAIT THERES MORE!!

Why did I download all those cute photoshopped peggy hairs only to get them in game and see the holes in the neck?? Im constantly downloading files from this site saying "gee, people are paying real money for this shit?.. this poorly crafted crock of shit??" And it makes me mad.. serial killer mad... because like.. its cute.. but its shit.... cute... feces..

But um..

I do have a real question aside from all my shitvo (shit+conversation=shitvo):

What is the difference between a paysite and a site that offers freeshit with the option to donate with little dollar signs by your name if you do?  How do we really know the folks arent using the donation to buy condoms and babywipes and liquor?

A recent thread on S2C alluded to the idea that Mr. Delphy himself was travelling and using donations for personal expenses... if this were true.. does he get a pass since MTS2 is a godsend?  Or what about Eric and Kathy from Insim??? The other godsend of the sims?  Not that theres two gods but.. you get it.. Not that any of them are doing any such thing, but the possibility exists.. we attack rather fervently (and I LOVE IT) other site owners for what they could be doing with the loot.. so, lets put the stilletto on the other foot...


Anywho... hiya!  

Oh.. and I just saved a ton of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico! :P

wow. lol. But i agree, whith pretty much everything you said. :)

Here's my personal opinion on free sites with the option to donate.

So paysites have items that you can purchase for a set amount of money. Following this logic, that means that items the should very well be free, by terms of EA's EULA, are withheld from Simmers who do not wish to shell out that kind of money for content that they shouldn't need to be paying for in the first place.

Freesites with the option to donate may very well make a decent sum of money if enough people donate. Which I'm perfectly okay with, because they aren't withholding items. If you want to donate, great, but it's not necessary to gain content. So if enough people donate that the owners have extra money left over, I personally don't really care what they do with it.

You make me hate math.

I agree with the bolded.  There is no question in my mind of the difference involved, however I wished to throw an interesting spin on it.  

So its all about the witholding of items that stand out to you.  And I concur.  But isnt there more logic behind it?  For example:  One pay artist says she "needs a car"  which is ludicous bullshit. Walking is great exercise damn it.. but heres the thing:  Needing a car means you are using your profit for personal expense.. now what if the owners of freesites of which millions log on to daily have extra reserves from donations and also "need a car".. Is this a double standard in play if the extra reserves from freesite owners are used for personal expense?

Dont get me wrong.  For the work that has come from Delphy and Eric's creations (Thomas can go suck a mule teet) I am deeply grateful, if it wasnt for them *insert really awesome compliments and pseudo-ass kissing here*...

I have no respect for anyone that does this.. at least when I got McDonalds and I say "no pickles" and they put pickles on, I can easily pick them off.. but dammit I CANT CLOSE A HOLE IN THE BACK OF MY SIMS HEAD! *sips latte*


So what about that double standard?

Oh and Plum.. math makes my eyeballs itch.   :?

See it all depends on the situation. For example, if someone opened up a freesite with a donation button and the intent to make money off of the donations and entirely spend it on personal expenses, I can't say that I would really agree with that. But if someone were to open a freesite, have a donation button, and get so much extra money that they end up having enough left over for personal expenses, without doing it intentionally, I'm okay with that. Of course, it would be even better if they realized they had extra and took the donation button off, like Nouk did, since people would no longer be supporting the site, instead they'd be supporting the creator. But in either situation, if they use the money for personal expenses, I don't really care too much.

See, if it's voluntary, it's actually a donation.  It's like a tip jar, especially at a Starbucks.  You know they get paid over minimum wage, they have excellent benefits, but you decided you wanted a grande white mocha with an extra shot of expresso and a shot of hazelnut and soy milk instead of regular and extra whipped cream, so you feel your favorite barista deserves a little extra reward for that.

Same with the free stuff.  If they made something extra super special that you love, you leave something in their tip jar.  You don't ever have to leave something there, but you can.

If you exchange monies for content, it's a business transaction.  One's technically a bit more legal than the other.

Gah, you're in my brain, theres a lot of room in there, have a drink!  I was leading up to that point.. (the bolded) why not just take the donation button away once you've received enough donations to cover the costs of the site?? See, I am grassroots by blood (and also not a payer of shit that should be free) and I support causes like this one (PMBD) that are in a sense, a grassroots effort.  I just want to look at both sides of the proverbial coin first.  

I would think that we would be embedding our feet deep into our collective espohagus' (esophogi?) if we said to paysite owners "We dont support you because you're using profit to feed your damn cats and they're not even spayed or neutered!"  and do not say the same to freesite owners with massive reserves left over after site costs have been met. Thats tip-toeing on the hypocracy line..

Heres the problem... Some freesite owners may genuinely have an account specifically for the purposes of site costs and keep those reserves there for ongoing site maintenance (ideal)... but we never truly know if that is the case or if they are using it to pay their $1500.00 mortgage..

I think if we are to be against paysites, it should be for moral and ethical reasons, not for what these people may be doing with the money they receive... because quite simply, those freesite owners could be doing the same..

and then we'd look dumb and shit...

dammit I want coffee.. I prefer a Vente soy almond latte with an extra shot, but I see your point.

why do you get everything so cheap? lol i spent

Sims2 : $69.95
Uni: $29.99
NL: $29.99
OFB: $29.99
Pets: $10 (got so cheap cuz i got a fake copy)

and thats australian dollars

70 USD for the base game?? Sheesh! Im in the US and 30.00 USD is about average here for the game.. Or maybe Because I only got it a year or so ago, the price dropped LMAO

See how it adds up?  Not to mention how much you paid for your PC, or how much that new graphics card will cost you, or more RAM when you continue to get these oh so lovely new expansion and stuff packs!  :lol:

I got the base game for $50 and I pay $30 for every expansion pack that comes out. Do the math. ^_~

*grabs calculator and types in random numbers*

My calculator is broken... it keeps saying "toofuckinmuch" on the little screen..

 :P

Sounds like your calculator works fine, in my opinion.

Yeah, as an Aussie, I've paid like $350 -

Sims 2 - $80.00
University - $30
Nightlife - $30
OFB - $35
FFS - $30
GLS - $35
Pets - $40
PLUS - 2 of my CDs got scratched so I had to repurchase the damn things.  I've spent enough on this game - I don't need some fucknuckle telling me I gotta give them money for anything.

Lessee...

Base game £18 (2nd hand - got me hooked)
Uni £15.99
Nl £17.99
OFB £14.99
Pests £16.99
Seasons £14.99 (on preorder)
Christmas Party pack £6.99


Yup - toofuckinmuch.... And that's without ripoff stuff packs...

I agree with you on all your points, but I would like to just make a comment in regards to MTS2 and Delphy.  TBH I don't care if he uses the donations that are left over for personal use.....because 1. do the donations actually meet all the costs per month on MTS2?  it's approx $1500/month, and if they do and delphy lives off that, well then so be it cause as 2. he is constantly working on MTS2 to make it better..... now please don't think I'm a delphy lover and kiss his ass, far from it, he doesn't even know i exist and I can care less if he doesn't.  

That said though, I have been having problems with MTS2 for the last 4 months, and even with the new thingy that he installed that was supposed to cut down on the 503 pages, i still get them about 95% of the time and makes me not want to download from there.....but eh *shrugs* I guess that's neither here nor there....

So in essence, if someone as talented as Delphy makes MTS2 his career so to speak, then it is okay to then use monies acquired through donations to live off of.. ?

Although I have no problemm with that site at all.. Im using the example to point out a possible double standard.. However, I do see the difference between that and intentionally witholding items until someone pays for the shit.

well one thing that's very important here is that all donations are voluntary, you don't have to give.  And he actually works on the site....but no I don't think it's necessarily right to make it your career, actually it doesn't sit that well with me, but then I look at friends of mine who do site support for a living and they are paid and they work on tons of sites(that usually have outside revenues and can afford them).  So in some way i guess this is the same thing, other than the fact that it's a free site and the money's gotta come from somewhere.  I don't know if the donations that delphy gets actually covers the monthly costs.  It would be nice if he were a bit more open about everything.  Such as exactly how much it costs per month AND the amount he gets in donations, etc.......I know he mentions how much things are but it would be nice to see things broken down.

I wish all sites would be open about income and expenses. We have no way of knowing if Delphy is just covering expenses or making a living off of MTS2. It's not the same thing as a paysite though, you don't have to donate to get content.

Yup. If I donate on my free will just because I feel like it and I don't expect any trinket in return, I don't mind if donatees go and have a drunken wild party with the spare money. Quite on a contrary, in fact. :mrgreen:

Aha!! You're on to something *see the bolded*... I look at something called "responsibility"... lets say I wanted to run and host a mega sims website and I started receiving donations from thousands of people...

Idea:  Why not, as you've suggested, have an area on MTS2 or InSIM for that matter that allows visitors and possible donators to see the expenses and total donations received... Kind of like your budget online...

I know this would possibly recruit even more people to donate considering they know exactly how their money is being spent as opposed to just the "word" of the site owner...

Example:

FreeShit Monthly Income/Expense Report:
(this could also be done quarterly to make it easier)
Feb 2007

Total Donations received as of 02/22/07 = $3312.22
Total reserves remaining after monthly host payment = $3110.19


Reserves:

*insert a breakdown of how reserves were spent this month*


Something along those lines .. you know.. shit like that :p

Sure that would take a lot of time.. but thats why you have staff ...
Just an idea, how bout an "accounting" staff member...

thats a lot of money...

Now add on a couple monthly subscriptions to that  :P

Ya know Free, I think you just like to debate.  :wink:  :D

But I do get what you're saying. Perfectly valid concept to debate.

I am a masterdebator ;)

There used to be an expenses/incomes meter on MTS2 once upon a time, actually. Can't remember when it disappeared, though, perhaps someone here has a memory better than mine?

Awww yes, Delphy was just discussing that on S2C and saying in so many words that paypal makes it difficult to do this.  But, with recorded transactions, one wouldnt necessarily have to do it daily.. it could be something thats done quarterly..

I'd rather spend money on a stuff pack than CC, atleast the hairs by maxis are animated and don't have neckgaps. Plus the people at EA Games have studied and it's their job, not a hobby.

Luckily I havn't spend that much on my game compared to most people..

Base: Free, got it from EA Games
Uni: 35€ (that was a mistake, i forgot to preorder)
Nightlife: Free, got it from EA Games
OFB: 20€
Pets: 20€
Seasons: 20€

95€ :)

I see your point, but after thinking about it even more than I've been doing since the whole paysite issue was brought to attention, I still don't really care what Delphy or other freesite owners do with the money they get from the donations.

The point of being against paysites, I think, is largely a moral one, but it is so because it derives from a legal observation: having people pay for something you're not allowed to sell in first place is not legal. Maxis is the one entitled to mind about it from a legal point of view, and they may decide not to mind at all, we on the other hand are the ones entitled to mind about it from a moral point of view, but our minding about it has a reason to be and is so strong because it directly comes from the fact the selling CC stuff is not legal.

Gah, am I even making sense?? while the toughts form in my head in Italian I assure you I am :lol:

What I mean is, I completely support and am interested in the issue of being against paysites only as long as it has a legally relevant reasoning behind it. Otherwise, I'm not interested in the sheer moral issue of what should or should not be done generally speaking by the freesite owners. As long as someone offers 100% free cc content on their site, leaving it up to people to decide whether or not to donate and knowning that donating won't gain them any "special gift", that's perfectly fine with me even if the owners in the end get so much money to sustain their site and live off it. Because while that might sound not moral, yet it doesn't infringe any law, and specifically any of the rules made by Maxis. I guess that's the only confining line I'm willing to consider :wink:

Yeah, I think thats the fundamental difference between pay and free site donations. If people force us to pay for their stuff, then we expect that the items we receive be of decently good quality and that they keep their shit together enough to keep their site open. By "decently good quality"' I of course mean NO GODDAMNED HOLES IN THE GODDAMNED NECK! Seriously, how hard is it for these people to snap together a few vertices? They seem to be meshing hairstyles of great intricacy, but a few unjoined vertices outsmart them. Bleh.

If, on the other hand, a site is free and accepts donations, then I don't bitch. If their stuff is of bad quality, I look at it, chuck it, and don't donate. Simple as that. If it is pretty good and I feel like helping out, then great. I would like to think most of that money goes to fund the site, but if they are buying catfood or getting their nails done, I don't really care. If the site goes down after I've donated due to "lack of funds", I'd probably be pretty suspicious and poke around at it, but as long as everything seems kosher, no big deal.

Sims 2 Holiday w/ Sims base = 39.99$
Sims 2 University = 29.99$
Sims 2 Nightlife = 29.99$
Sims 2 Family Fun Stuff = 19.99$
Sims 2 Open for Business = 29.99$
Sims 2 Glamour Stuff = 19.99$
Sims 2 Pets = 29.99$
Sims 2 Seasons = 29.99$

TSR Recurring sub = whatever a month since October of 2006. I actually had a Peggy Sims Sub for 1 month I dl'd stuff to see if it was good laughed, cackled maniacly and blew 10$ on craptacular shit. Yes I said it. It's shit.

I spent way too much money on this game.  :?

I will donate to sites like Nouk and Sims File Vault. Will I donate to TSR anymore? Yes so I can share the love. Peggy Sims? HELL NO!  :evil:

Ahhh the legal issue.  I tend to agree. Yes what these site owners are doing is illegal.  You make perfect sense to me, italian brain and all  :P

Base Game= $59.99 CAD
Uni = $39.99 (Don't ask me why it's more expensive than the other EXP packs but it was the same at every store I went to)
NL = $29.99
OFB = $29.99
FFS = $19.99
Glam = $19.99
Pets = $29.99 (I would prefer a refund because it sucks)
Holiday = $19.99 (I actually had to haggle to get this price because everyone seemed to think it was a full expansion pack)

My total spent on The Sims 2 : $ 287.41 (Give or take a few dollars due to the change in taxes where I live)

Should I really start to add the amount I wasted on subs?  No because even I don't remember anymore but I can tell you now that I've stopped, I can actually put the money that I was previously wasting, I can put that money towards bills.

See! It adds up so fast and becomes ridiculously expensive, without the subscriptions.  So why subscribe?  Thats my look at it anyway, and Im so glad to see others add up the costs of the game and eps and see how much we already spend on the game to begin with.

Base Game= $59.99 CAD
Uni = $39.99
NL = $29.99
OFB = $29.99
Pets = $29.99
Holiday 2 = $6.99
Video card on first computer = $79.98
RAM Upgrade on first computer = $99.99
New computer to play it better = $600.00
RAM Upgrade on new computer $180.00
                                                  $1156.92

Plus about $600 in total on paysites (though only half of that money was my own spent)

Now, I do have all of the other stuff packs, but I didn't exactly pay for them (arr!) so I won't even mention them. :P

Well i'll be damned!! thats a lot of money!!  But.. alas.. I will be adding a new video card to my total cost soon as well LOL may not need more ram anytime soon.. This computer is officially one year old this month but I didnt include it in my cost because I got the sims AFTER I got the PC I didnt get the PC for the game.. but dammit that could happen too..

Shit's expensive!!!

Yeah, I didn't count the $2500 I spent on a deluxe set up to play the game in the first place - brand new compy.  AND I don't even get the free gifts for preorder from EA (that's not saying I don't get them  :lol: ).

You know - I never thought of adding hardware costs... I bought an extra gig of ram specifically to make the game run better (round figures £50) - and I'm planning on a new video card if Seasons causes my current card to go splodey.

I did get a faster processor too - (3ghz - used - with heatsink £65 - thanks to my brother) - I can't count the motherboard as I had to replace it a couple of months beforehand.

I tend to upgrade bits in my comp as and when I need to, but it all adds up...

Base game: $59.99
Uni: $39.99 - the dullest, yet the most expensive...
NL: $29.99
OFB: $29.99
Pets: $29.99

New computer that would actually be able to run the game: $1900
More memory, since it really couldn't run the game after all: $90

So far, we're at $2,179.95. I should probably be ashamed of myself.

I really don't know how much I spent on subscriptions, but I know Peggy got at least $40 out of me, about $15 to 4ESF, Reflex $10 (because I didn't learn my lesson with the first set of non-functional, game-crashing crap), Wallsims $30 or so, and TSR probably a year's worth of off-and-on subbing total, i.e., $53.70.  That's $148.70, and I know that's not anywhere close to the real amount.

Holysimoly got $10 and ATS $5, but I don't particularly mind having paid them.

I tried to offset this by running, um, "free" copies of NL, OFB and Pets, but the latest patch effed up emulation and I couldn't be arsed to work with hacks and cracks yet again, so I broke down and bought the damn things. However, one of my original problems still remains, i.e., I still can't play for any good length of time because my superduper 10-lb. 17" monitor "gamer" laptop has a shit video card with no driver updates available (and aftermarket drivers don't work).

Therefore, within the next few months, I am planning to spend at least another $1000 to build a new desktop system. It's not only for Sims--I'm hoping that a new system will stop all the Photoshop lagging, as well--but making the Sims playable is indeed one of my major goals.

Current total spending on pixel dolls: $2,343.65. :shock: Okay, I am ashamed of myself.

I only wish I'd known about the booty sooner...

You forgot system upgrades. The Sims 2 + Expansions can be quite a load on your computer, and I had to buy more RAM just so my laptop won't slow to a halt.

I almost considered subscribing to peggy, but I stumbled across some anti-paysite threads where people claimed that peggy's hairs looked horrid ingame. I was having second thoughts when someone sent me a link to PMBD. P:

Now, lets all add our total costs together and see what we come up with eh?  Or not..

The shit adds up!  Its pathetic to ask someone to pay for a game item considering how much we've already spent on this game.

And yes.. I used to love the pictures of Peggys photoshopped hair.. until I downloaded them from here and saw the lazy ass, half ass job she did.

TS2: £29.99
U: £21.99
NL: £19.99
OFB: £18.99
FFS: £9.99
GLS: £12.99
P (pre-ordered, no postage): £17.99
S (pre-ordered including postage to Jersey): £14.45 (£12.76 w/o postage-- :shock: it cost less than GLS!!!)

PC: £40 when it broke down just before Xmas, £60+ before when it wasn't working

Roughly...£246.38. Luckily, I didn't have to pay for the £60. £186.38.

Then I paid...um, £5 to DMASims, $2 USD every month since November to SimChic, 2 Peggy subs, and a SimsConnection 1-month sub.

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

I've spent, like £200 on TS2!! And my prices, being that I'm British, appear to be CHEAPER!!!!

But of course, it was my fault I got TS2 for so much money. I got it the day it came out round at the PC Hospital because I didn't wanna walk into town. They had it about £4 more expensive there!

What I find funny is how absolutely none of the EPs costed the same...they all should have cost between £17.99-£19.99, but of course they didn't...

I'd like FHS but you can't get it in Jersey. :( Only the Christmas TS2...

In the UK, you can get expansion packs for £15 at www.gameplay.co.uk (and they send out pre-orders early so you get them the day before release). That saves you a bit. ^_^

Even considering that, I've spent... way too much on the Sims 2. I just bought a nrand new computer that only has TS2 installed game-wise at the moment, so I suppose that could be factored into the expense as well.

Yeah, but I'm from Jersey (not actually in the UK :roll: ), so the postage to ship it over would cost an AWFUL lot! We don't have VAT so they add on costs like they're going out of fashion to get us to pay more.
I tried to buy P from Amazon, but preordering it ended up at like £24 when it said it would only be £16. I wasn't playing that game. I ended up getting it from Play.com, which is based in Jersey. PLAY sucks. Never get anything from there. *glares*
This one, S, I actually got from Amazon coz even though they said it would be £15, they lowered the price and it's over £4 cheaper than it would be to buy it flat out in Jersey, so I'm pleased...

I always buy stuff from Play. It's the cheapest for me, since it is in the EU and because of that they don't add VAT and the postage is included in their prices.

For some reasons the postage to Scandinavia is usually outrageously high, if you order something online.  :roll:

Naw, Play.com is a Jersey company; that's why there's no VAT. I don't pay VAT, you don't pay me VAT. No VAT. ^^^ But they still suck. I've bought 3 things from there and they got every one of my orders wrong.
I bought a book, right? And they gave me the wrong one. So I complained and asked for the right one. They sent me the exact same wrong one. So I had two wrong books and sent one back, and they refunded me! So I paid no money for the wrong book. And I still have the book! Because the first order I wanted the right one sent to me, THEN I wanted a refund when the second was wrong...
And it wasn't like I clicked the wrong button by accident. I clearly said I wanted book 6 and they sent book 5. Also, book 5 was the very top book and book 6 the very bottom in the list... :roll:  :roll:
The other thing was TS2P, and they said it was a CD-rom and sent a DVD-rom, of which I didn't have a DVD-rom drive, so they misrepresented it and the picture lied to me too, said it was a CD...

Play.com just flat-out don't work. :roll:  :roll:  :roll: