PMBD

With all of the problems the server(s) have had in hosting us, they have suggested we might find it easier to have our own dedicated server.  However, rather than $8 per month, our monthly costs would soar to $300 per month.

Obviously, this is a bit too costly for us.  So we're wondering what everyone else's opinions are on it, and especially how we can raise the money required every month.

Pros:

We would be solely in charge of what happened, and when there's a problem, Pescado would be God-Emperor of Der Servar, so he could fix anything not requiring a manual reset.

We could host a number of smaller Sim sites.

Cons:

Obviously, the cost.

So, what do you all think?  We have not decided on any course of action.

Alrighty. Here's the deal. I have haggled and the dedicated server option is available at the price of $2100 for a year (price can be expected to drop somewhat in coming years if the obsolete server is retained).

Caveats:
1. This is considerably more money than we presently have available.
2. This is considerably more power than we actually require.
3. Offer available for a rather limited time only. If we don't move this fast, it ain't happening. Servers sold on a FCFS basis and stocks are low.

Pros:
1. Being God-Emperor of the Server is always nice.
2. Speed should improve both here and on MATY. Downtimes should be considerably less.
3. Space will be greatly improved.

So here's the deal:
Anyone who contributes money towards this, depending on how much, will receive the following irrelevant and often useless perks.
$500 or more: The title of Prince* and priority for webspaces.
$250 or more: Your title of nobility will be displayed on all present and future AwesomeNet(tm) sites capable of doing so.
$200 or more: The title of Duke* to be displayed on a single AwesomeNet(tm) site of your choice.
$150 or more: The title of Marquis* to be displayed on a single AwesomeNet(tm) site of your choice.
$100 or more: The title of Count* to be displayed on a single AwesomeNet(tm) site of your choice.
$75 or more: The Title of Viscount* to be displayed on a single AwesomeNet(tm) site of your choice.
$50 or more: The Title of Baron* to be displayed on a single AwesomeNet(tm) site of your choice.
$25 or more: The Title of Baronet to be displayed on a single AwesomeNet(tm) site of your choice.

*You will also receive a webspace on request if available usable for any TOS-legal purpose you wish, of unmetered bandwidth and reasonable diskspace. Taxes of 25% will be assessed on any profits produced from your webspace in order to pay for server costs (if your site does not produce profits, 25% of 0 is still 0). Webspace is valid as for as long as the lifespan of the server(s).

All awards are cumulative. Only the highest title of nobility will be displayed by your name. Titles are completely useless and do not grant additional privileges. Titles are hereditary and may be passed onto the descendant of your choice in the event of your death. Only a single donation is necessary to receive title. Multiple donations will be combined and treated as single donation for purposes of title received.

Donations should be funneled towards Paypal. In the event that the deal fails because you were too slow and the server was sold, the money will be spent on rum instead, and the titles and webspace offer will not be available.

Use the following at present:
ALERT - DO NOT SEND MONEY AT THIS TIME!
Note that the amount received via credit card is reduced by Paypal's cut: We never receive this money and your donation is influenced likewise. To avoid this, transfer the money to balance first. This will take slightly longer, but we're not close enough to our goal for there to be a stampede yet.

THESE VALUES MAY CHANGE DUE TO PAYPAL TRANSACTION LIMITS

I think your own servers sounds like a great idea and I helped out some. Hope this works out!

I'd love to donate but y'know me. Can I donate a couple of quid? I definitely can't afford £13 (about 25$). I need a job. However, I can donate £5 or something, if I can work out HOW to.  :lol:
I only count as "convincingly 12". I can't work yet if I play by Pescado's rules.
Oh, sites...well, I can cope with my limited bandwidth site. ^^ It'll be fine. :lol:

My suggestion is that anyone with some spare space offers to host a section.  Links can be provides to those places.   Otherwise it's beginning to look a bit self-defeating and dare I say it as if it was right for the original sites to charge to cover bandwidth costs :(

So, Pescado, Bluesoup, Piratebooty and myself are expected to cough up $2100 amongst ourselves to pay for a new server, which is filled with a bunch of payfiles (that we ourselves coughed up the cash for), for all of you to download - for free?

Have you seen the state of the TSR Booty lately? Everything I painstakingly downloaded got chewed up by the server. It took me days and days to download and upload everything from TSR. And now it's gone because of the crap server, and I have to redo everything.

I'm not sure how it is even possible to lump us together with paysites who DON'T charge for bandwidth, but lie about doing so. Our cost is stated upfront. I really don't think it's fair to call this donation drive "self-defeating," Inge. Not at all.

Look, all the people who have been so happy to download them can help host them.   Everyone has at least a tiny bit of space from their ISP and many many of them have actual hosting space somewhere.

Dude, just move to another host. 2100 a year is way over the top to annoy a bunch of paysites.

You don't have any registration required do you?  What's the betting some bitter paysite owners have been downloading the stuff with scripts or something just to break the bandwidth?

Can't you go over to a members (free) only download system and check up on individual users activity?

I have some web/ftp space to offer, and is a very good service; the problem is that the server is located in Pittsburgh (US), and I don't know how they may react in case of some paysite owner throws hissy fits on purpose.
I can try to ask them specifying the matter, and see what they will answer.
In case of positive answer, what I can offer (for free) is about 3 Gb space and 200 Gb transfer/month (Webmaster plan in this (http://www.pair.com/services/compare.html) comparison chart).

In any case, I'll contribute gladly with money, for what I can afford.

Another thought: if you did already nevermind, but how about asking Sims File Vault crew about their experience with similar issues, and in case some agreement, mutual help, etc.

I suggested a new host already.

No, you're not expected to do anything. Self righteous much?

It's a wonderful idea, especially the hosting smaller sites part, but it's such a vast amount of money...But it'd host MATY too? See, I was talking to my boyfriend about this, and he was saying that a dedicated server shouldn't cost that much...He didn't really elaborate much though, I think he may have been talking shit...

One thing which does concern me though, is that it squashes that whole thing of 'I'm hosting all your files and it's only costing me pocket change, proving you don't need donations, HA!'.

Well said and Exactly right.

But honestly I think it was asking for problems to just put the stuff into unguarded directories like that.  Why not try bringing them into a forum setting and then see how it goes.  Some of this high bandwidth might be people just running scripts at it to get you closed down.

It's worth a try surely?

I wanted suggestions, I'm willing to try anything that sounds realistic.

However, it's not up to me.

I'm not sure I understand the 'need' to improve the service. I have trouble connecting now and then, but it's minimal, not even a real annoyance.

You have trouble now and then connecting to the phorum, or the booty?  Because they're on two separate servers, if I remember correctly.

Uploading the booty the past few days has been next to impossible.  It times out, errors, gives broken files, etc.

I'm all but open to any other suggestion.  If you have one, let's hear it.

Always the phorum, never the booty. Since the 'name change that wasn't really a name change' I have three links, one directly to the booty, one to PMBD, and one to MNBN. When Ihave trouble with the MNBN, I try the PMBD which sometimes works out, if those both don't work, then I try to get in thru the booty, which takes me to the front page and usually gets me to the phorum but not always--I'd say maybe 60% of the time it works.

What is that you get for the $2100 figure? Pescado says it's more than actually needed, but what are the specs for the server?

I'm curious because my employer provides dedicated hosting, so I'd want to know what the competition offers ;)

I also like Inge's suggestion, and I can provide some disk space myself, the only downside would be the increased complexity of link and file management.

PS: I was going to post this at MATY, but the site stopped responding for much of the day :P

I also have a lot more trouble accessing the phorum than the booty.

I dunno, kind of makes me uncomfortable, but so does the MTS2 set-up. One thing that would help is full disclosure. A clear explanation in a sticky of the costs and a running tally of how much had been donated so far.

I also think it would be reasonable to require registration to access the booty. Would it be too much bother for the uploaders to rotate the booty so it wasn't all up at the same time? Or could some of the less popular items be archived?

I'll have to think about it some more.

If there were enough man power--the booty could be a listing and people could put in requests, like at SFV, but not.  :P

If space was needed to store the files, we all have a little bit of spce thru our ISp. What if we stored it spread out, and then the email request would go to the 'holder' of the requesrted files?

I have no idea if this is truly feasible...

The actual bandwidth usage isn't the problem. In fact, there really isn't so much a PROBLEM as it is a quality-of-service and support issue. In any case it is simply an option we are considering.


We're offered a 2.6 GHz Celery, 1 GB RAM, 80 GB HD, and the same unmetered bandwidth. And absolutely no questions. I consider the absolute lack of nosy prying questions to be worth somewhat of a premium. Naturally, we are open to competing offers, and if the process doesn't pan out, we still have the same options as before and business in general can continue in its present state.

I think it would be a dreadful loss of face to end up spending that much money on hosting these files we were laughing at the original owners spending so much to host.  It would be my very last choice.

That is certainly a point we have considered, although the issues presently cover more than PMBD itself.

This sucks. This sucks so much. Now I feel even more shitty cause I am no help. The paysite owners must be laughing at us.

And how do we know the hosting company isn't pulling a dirty trick?  Lure you in with promises of unlimited this and that and then deliberately play pingpong with your site in the hopes you'll pay up for a server?   I have heard of that before.

That is certainly a possibility that I am investigating in some detail. Dedicated servers do offer you the option to wring them for every last bit of usage without anyone whining, though. :P

So far, my investigations suggest their hamfisted fumbling is not capable of the act you describe, and they appear to genuinely believe what they claim.

I have neither credit card nor paypal account, so maybe my opinion is moot.  However, I prefer the idea of the smaller linked sites - which I presume is similar to a webring?  That way all the referral power works in our favour, and makes it easier for people to stumble onto us.

I also like the email thing.

Well, that's a good start. Believing what you claim and all. :lol:

Teadrinker is asking the questions I've been wondering. The booty content, since there is no registration and many hackers have firewalls and all, they could be sabatoging this site, to take you down. Whats to stop a person with hacking skills to go in there swap and sabotoge the files? I dont know that much about this, but, is there some way to make access harder, and monitor who has access.

My donations through winter months have to be small, I live in all electric  and we are are extreme cold, so any extra I have not covered by basics, is shrinking due to the heat bill. I have no interest in website options, but what about making ourselves a club or organizaion with small dues, that a lot could afford, including the kids. Though not optional to be registered to site, maybe membership gives special avatar tile, I dont know.

updated: I think occasionally the phorum wigs out, but I have had problems with booty or even front page. Luckily I use my history, and go directly to forum. another server company or option sonds good. If they are pressuring Pescado for time, I get real hesitant, that they are saying he must do it now. Sounds like a scam.

I agree with teadrinker on this. If we decide to pay that much for a dedicated server, regardless of why, we'll end up with rum on our faces.

I support the membership only downloads, the email system, even having sections of files hosted on members ISP space. That being said, I have ISP space and will shortly have web space where I can either host a section of files or hold them to email to requesting members.

As for access to the site, in the past couple of weeks, I've only been unable to access the site once. A couple of other times it's been slow to load but that's it.

Actually, they more specifically stated that the servers were limited in supply and would sell out. If this happens, we will have to investigate alternative options. One option under investigation is to, as an alternative, purchase a bunch of hosting packages distributed everywhere and mirror the sites. Cheaper solutions are also being investigated. In any case, rum and whores never hurt, right?

Where are you getting the whores from? Not our cash, eh?

The phorum hates me. Half the time it won't open or it shuts down when I'm in the middle of a post. If it does I just give up now.

Surely you didn't miss the rum disclaimer in Pescado's first post in this thread.  If he doesn't raise enough money, the money will go towards rum :P

Can't you put up a donation button, get your own server for less than 2100 dollars and start selling space and bandwidth to cover some of the cost in the future? Cheapo hosting plans?

That's what we're doing. :P

Plus if you buy one, you get to be a Baron. :P

well let us know the final direction or plan you finnalize, and I hope it will be paypal and I will send as 8)  I can.

I got the rum reference, yes.
The whores were something else though.
TBTH *wince* it reminded me of that nasty Open House Jack (http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/booty/openhousejack) thread...

I didnt get that, i saw the whore and rum connection to pirates...When i was a kid been through Rirates of the Carribean ride a few times.

I don't have money to spare, but I do have extra web space and bandwidth if you need it.  :wink:

Of course, of course. I am always right!  Always! :P

I'm on dial-up and it's generally been more frustrating for me to try and dl from mts2 than from here.  

I'd say it's a good time to be looking around at options that might improve things, but the situation doesn't seem dire enough to be making big decisions or purchases, not yet anyway.

The major impact of this site hasn't been that the files are available for free anyway.  I mean, yeah, it's nice and all but the real impact of all those files sitting there for free for anyone who chooses to take them is (I believe) more symbolic than anything else.  Anyone who is really dying to actually download them can bloody well wait til the site is feeling frisky--and while they are waiting they can think about how stupid the paysite system is in the first place and can become one more person in the community who is willing to actually speak OUT about it here or on one of the other sites.

If a good solution for a speedier/more dependable system presents itself, great, but the main thing right now is to keep doing what we've been doing and not start coming apart at the seams--because all this has really begun to make an amazing impact...all due to this site.

YMMV, of course.

I like Teadrinker's idea of a forum setting, free membership, members-only downloads.  People should be encouraged to donate to help with hosting cost, but all downloads should be kept completely free, of course.  It would be very cool to have a list of every single person who has donated and how much they gave, and exactly how much the hosting bill is.  That way people can see exactly where their money went and how much of an impact they made, and be publicly acknowledged for it, and others would see this and want to donate, too.  

I think $2100 is a lot of money...  But I know nothing about web hosting.

Chinese their basically buying their own computer with 2100. So the computer is not running other sites, except MATY and if they some site hosting. For that price though you could get more HD. My computer was custom built for less than that, and I had two HDS of 200 GBtes each.

If 500 people donated $5 each that would be $2500.

Is it that amount once off, per year, or per month?

Per year. Or, more specifically, for this year. The option to renegotiate rates exist next year due to the hardware obsolescence issue (or otherwise we'd just see what they had as their current plans and switch).


That's essentially the idea, yes. The computer would not be running anything I didn't tell it to run. The base are entirely belong to us.

Well, of course the more you spend, the more you can demand in return. But this is true whatever you do with a site.

The worst effect I've experienced so far with the sites (the phorum part here and MATY) was the last ~24h downtime. Sometimes is slower, sometimes not.
If the problem was no phorum/maty/booty unless on dedicated server, this would be another issue, but if the problem is only about occasional borked service, I would not worry too much.

After all, there was no claim to be "the best top quality downloading site for free in the world", but only the "we can do what paysites do with no need to FORCE you to pay for". And - on a side note - this site do much more than any single paysite do.
And this would remain true even with a voluntary donation scheme, which is incidentally also one of the methods this site supports and encourages.

The phorum for me is accessible, occasionally it goes down, but the front site page, and all that are never up for me. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Not everyone out there will be able to get the booty either, its kind of like unreliable at this point, so something needs to be done, and the phorum is growing daily.

We're nearly 20% of the way there now.

Elaborate Pescado 20% for? Donations?...If its paypay where do we send the donations?

20% for the $2100 needed for a dedicated server.  Aka $400.

Wow! That's brilliant! So fast, too!

The only problem with that, is a lot of people don't have torrent clients, or have chosen not to have a torrent client. Myself included.

That's pretty much just like the people on MTS2 always bitching about not having WinRAR. I guess you make the leap and download it, go without, or... you know, come up with the $1700 we still need for a dedicated server. :wink:

That said, I don't dislike the torrent idea as much as the everyone hosting a portion of the files idea. And I like the forum idea too.

Alright, I donated what I can.  I agree with toomanyguppies - what this site has accomplished is incredible and we can't afford to "start coming apart at the seams" now.  
I don't really think we'll have egg on our faces for this.  If anything, it should prove that while we may bandy about the label of "pirates!" with good humor, we are not simply trying to get stuff for free.  In a sense, we are paying for the pay content - but we're doing it the way communities *should* do it.

Not everybody uses Firefox either  :wink:

I use IE. I can't get FF to WORK on my PC. Besides, I find it incredibly ugly.

Asking this again, so I can again donate.
Is this paypal, who do we send it too, what account? Is there a donate button around here Im missing?
Please post details.

View the second post in this thread.

Also, we're up to $700 currently.

There's no button. You just manually input the addresses as listed above.

Current status: 42%, 47% including uncleared payments.

Pescado let me know if you get my donation :), hope set it right. :)

I donated £5 of my pocket money through my mum - roughly $10

We minors aren't as helpless and poor as people think ;)

ETA: I've barely had any downtime with the phorum, but I can't access the main page at all now, nor the booty.

We are now just slightly over the 50% mark of our original projected estimate.

We now have two options: Try to hold out until we hit the 100% mark, or buy a one-month deal now at a slightly insuperior rate, but staking our claim to the server, and either fail to meet our goal within the month and run out of funding and die because we traded our existing accounts for the new server.

Stake the claim now.

MATY and the main page are completely inaccessible to me now.   The phorum is only accessible because it's on a different server.

I think it's a scam.

What's a scam? The server's a scam? I doubt it. These guys aren't smart enough to try a scam. Let's just say I have personal experience attesting to the fact that they are really, really stupid. I'd rather not discuss the details right now, though. They might find the loopholes I'm presently abusing.

Can anyone help me out here and feel free to point and laugh.

I'm still a novice with paypal and since I don't have a credit card linked to it do I just put in for the recipients email  tokenhoarder@victoryismine.org and send my donation.

The transfer to balance was the thing confusing me but if I have to do it by that route you'll have to tell me how.


 *Ignore above post transaction completed so hope you get it.*

Hey, I'm new here and I would like to help out with a donation, how short are you from your goal and how do I send a donation?

pescado Im assuming you got my donation. For a couple days 50% not bad. Are you fundraising at Maty to? Though if bluesoup cant access Maty maybe others cant, hopefully they'll come here, 50% not enough, try for 75-80% (Imo) till switching stuff with them. I cant believe they'd sell out severs that fast. If you get enough and they sell out maybe, there are other companies you go with other there?

Well looks like switching servers, so hopefully if people can access the booty now more people will contribute.

Maybe you could make pre-sale* near the free sims sites which would like to be assosiated with you. And to praise the merits of the new servor which you want to acquire. Several people could occupy themselves of contacting these sites.  
But it,s just a idea ...

Sent some $$$...sorry but had to do it the credit card way. What's the total now?

Well, I sent what I could for now, though it will be a while before the money's cleared.
I have to say that I'm still not convinced getting your own server is the best way to go...

How many dubloons be in the treasure chest now?

Does anyone else get the irony in this...? :wink:

Camilla,

1. many paysites start up there site demanding pay (someones creations that hasnt even been over at MTS2) their mediocre designs.
 contrast it with MATY and this site were established for quite a while 100% free no membership.
2. Server cost if only 500 people donate $5 thats $2500. He's running 2 sites Maty as well, Maty folks Im sure donating.
3. Donation not a requirement to access the booty, it is free to everyone, even non forum members.

Need i say more.

This is ALL voluntary, no one is forcing anyone to do anything.  And if we do get enough money then great!  I see it like the donation drive that MTS2 sometimes has.  They just make an announcement and if you are so inclined you can donate.  And this is going to a good thing, since i've had a lot of problems accessing the site the last couple of days well actually weeks :P  Yeah it's a bummer that we NEED one, but *shrugs* if enough money gets in then i think it's great!  And it's not just for here which i think some people are missing the point....so it's not just about us

I agree with Will--she has a point. It isn't just about us. It's a server that we will have for the entire year and we're already most of the way there. There is two sites' worth of people donating and I'm sure the MATY folks aren't downloading for the booty--which is FREE FOR ALL--and yet they still are. You do not even need to have a membership to download the paysite stuff. Therefore there is no irony. You must have misunderstood.

Tchan I think Will and I were making the same point, I was responding to Camillia, the 3 of us are in agreement as far as I can tell. Maybe Camillia should of elaborated her point better. I do not see the irony.

I also do not see the irony.  This is being done strictly by donation, not subscription.  No files are being locked away only to be accessed by paying customers.  So what is the irony?

So it is not that the hosting site has locked these pages, but that there is still a sort of attack going on that is causing this?

I wish I had money to help donate, because I love what you guys are doing.  However, like so many others are offering, I have web space available if the need arises to help host files.
Did you guys take the booty down entirely now?  Because it says the page is gone.

No they are switching servers. And i see where you are coming from. I wanna donate but can't because my parents won't let me.

I sent a bit.  Although I downloaded a ton a while back.. I really didn't keep much of it in my downloads.. but I do use MATY hacks.. and do like what I kept.. so I don't mind sending some money to help out!

Also.. I have a ton of space at my website if it comes down to needing to farm out files.

~misty

lol, I probably should have said I agree with both of you as well. ^^^
However, I do see the winking smiley she put up. Camilla should have elaborated better, as you say, but I don't know--maybe she was using the irony herself...

Thought I'd better de-lurk to say I've sent a payment. Even if all this doesn't come over (with the server purchase and all!), you can have it as a thanks for what you people have been doing so far. Appreciate it.

The biggest problem I see is that we've been arguing that paysites don't need bandwidth money because PMBD's costs are only $8 a month.  But if you think you can swing the cost then I think it'd be great.

I wish I could afford to help out.  Hopefully when I get my new job next Fall I'll be able to throw some cash your way.

I'd really like to help, but Paypal doesn't accept my debit card. I do have a small hosting from my ISP, though, and I can host some files if needed.

Paysites aren't even arguing they need the money for bandwidth though.  Plus, this isn't about bandwidth.

New server is ordered.

Thank you all for contributing.

Could you make a some sort of indicator or something for showing how much money is still needed? Because I'd love to donate, but I cannot afford to do it this month.

I know, the extra money goes to rum, but if you've managed to raise the whole sum by February and do not need money for the new server anymore, I'd rather buy me some rum instead!  :wink:

We have met the target goal already and the new buttocks have already been ordered. The target goal for next year is unknown at this time.

:shock: We're getting very personal here! :oops:

seriously  :D

Excellent! As someone who has no means of electronic payment, I'd like to thank all the contributors out of the bottom of my little black heart.

Hooray! What Twinkie said. *nods*

I didn't see this till just now so no donation from me.  But I do plan to contribute when we open up a running for next year.  I see nothing wrong with asking for donations to keep a site running.  I don't see how this is like paysites at all.

Woah, that was fast. Thanks to everyone who contributed!

Ok, let me get this straight, we donate as little as $25, and gain access to the largest collection of sim stuff avaible....the $25.00 can also be put toward obtaining more booty correct?  Even if the ammount has been collected already. The new server thingie will make it faster to obtain with out too many errors?

Let me see, last year, I paid... 6 months for Peggy that is around $60, about the same for TSR that is up to $120, then I paid for Rose, only twice, totaled to 22$, then simchic, and simslice, roughly 50 each for them for a year, and some other donations here and there, probably totaling nearly $300......

I think, as soon as my student load money gets here, I can afford $25.

I do not think it unreasonable request at all. I am all for it. Blue Soup expect $25 around the end of Feb, from me, (of course it will be from the "real" me. ) unless tax money gets here sooner... :)

Right now I can barley afford food, gas, TP....DH of course still gets his smokes.  *grumbles*

Pirate Penny not following you there was no set amount people had to donate it was what people could afford. The amount was raised for the new server,started Friday less than 4 days it took to raise it. Now once the new server is running, things will be back to normal :).

Bloody hell. This is so impressive! Two sites' worth of people and a new server within 4 days. It's amazing!

Congratulations - this just shows that the people who use a site will help out with costs when there is a need. Best of all, the contributors walk away feeling satisfied with what they've done rather than scammed.  8)

$25 was the lowest price at which one would get additional perks on the forum.

The only perk was a custom title.  The other perk is being able to access the booty and MATY.  That's always nice.

Yeah, but there's different level of custom titles is what I meant. With, of course, the main goal being able to access some of the finest content around (MATY) and also the booty.

I got a question for Blue as we can afford it can we donate more, for next year, and would that be considered upgrading our status like from $5-25, etc. Hope that made sense.

Really that is the only perk I care about..access to the booty. I don't need a custom title. I'm not really on here too much...I like playing my sims. I plan on giving what I can, maybe less and maybe more...but I plan on giving.

woo! Rum party at my place!

edit: weird, this post went through? I got a strange error message when typing it.

I would say it's only good for a year but I dunno.  Why don't we just get through this year and see what happens next year? ;)

People can always send me money for the booty whenever they want. :)

blue, Of course we got the booty going:), so will help as can :)

Well, it's all set for now.  So no one need send me any money for a while.  I'm just not asking again.

The new server is not up yet.  It can take up to 72 hours.

And torrent may have been a possibility, but we do have the new dedicated server now for at least the next year.  Bandwidth and space is no longer an issue.  We're set to go :)

Actually, torrent is even more of a possibility with the new server, since we could run a bttracker, and seed from the server. :P

72 hours? :evil:

72 hours is not long at all.
It's worth the wait.
I couldn't donate this time, but I really appreciate those who did for everyone's benefit.
Thanks guys.

You've waited this long just don't think about it and the time will fly by =]

Paypal now seems to be attempting to rob us. Information about this as well as suggested courses of action will be up in a new thread shortly.