PMBD

It may be against the EA eula but EA actively support pay sites such as TSR, they even featured them in a fansite interview. The fact is EA are cashing in on this themselves, which is why they now produce stuff packs. In the days of the original Sims, EA gave away a free download every week. They dont do that now, and im sure they cut down the content in expansion packs in order to bulk out the stuff packs

The thing that makes Sims2 such a great game is the very talented modding community, and EA are very well aware of this, so if they take action against paysites they will be shooting themselves in the foot.

Personally I do believe that TSR gives fantastic value for money, I think you can sign up for $9 and just go on a downloading spree, a stuff pack would cost at least that and only give you 125 items. For $9 at TSR you could have thousands of items made to a much higher quality that anythign EA will give you. And you get to pick and choose the stuff you want. The clothes are fantastic, never mind anything else there

Have you seen the wonderful realistic eyes you can get for your sims? and the amazing hair? these 2 things alone have made a huge difference to the way our sims look. EA simply wouldnt pay to employ the kind of artists that are required to make the great content we see on sites like TSR. But this stuff takes time to make and requires a high level of skill.

All credit to Modthesims2 for staying free and TSR have free stuff too, as do many of the other paysites, and lets face it, you dont need to join a paysite to enjoy the game.

I have to admit that I've been tempted to pay, and if the right site came along, I probably would.
Just this morning, I found out that the aquarium from the monster house is on the TSR, and am thinking about it right now.  There are just some things that are WORTH paying for ...

I'm not saying that there is no time or talent that goes into these objects. Hell I know that as I dabble in it myself. But the truth of the matter is that it's not right to charge for something that was not yours in the first place. These objects, eyes, hair, clothes are all based of the content MAXIS made.

Let's say I have a book that someone else wrote, I take the book and change the cover with a picture I drew myself putting my name on it. Now inside I take out some pages and re-write them and replace them. Put it all together in new wrapping ect. This whole process takes me a few days to finish and it looks really great perhaps even better than the orginal. Can I then take it and ask people to pay me for it? Then I even get others to pay for that same book? Not even a different one?

That is exactly what paysites are doing! I know that EA has done this but again it is their product so they can do that. It's theirs they made the stuff in the first place. And yes they give you less for your money than TSR does because well again it's theirs it isn't TSR's.

And yes I know, I know, If I don't like it I don't have to pay ect ect. And I don't. But I hate it when others try to claim it as their own when it's not.

If the original author - EA in this case - isn't complaining, they are allowing it by not stopping it.  Lita is right, EA lets it go on because it is good for them too.  If they don't seem to care, then it simply comes down to personal preference on whether to pay or not, and is not longer an issue of having the legal right to charge.
On a side note, I did go ahead and subcribe to TSR - which makes me either a hypocrite or a flip-flopper, but I just couldn't turn down the things I want from the site.

The book metaphor is very good Chami, but it doesnt work because the publishers woudlnt let you do it, whereas EA do let people do it, eula or no eula.

I paint with watercolors and acrylics and sometimes I sell my pictures on Ebay. I dont own the copyright in the canvas and I dont own the copyright in the paints, but I do consider that I own the copyright in the actual combined result which is the picture, and I charge people for it. This metaphor doesnt quite fit either I know, but when I sell a picture, Im not selling a canvas and a portion of paint, im selling my own artistic endeavour and people are paying for the visual aspect of it, not because its an 8x10 Cotterman canvas with a smattering of Windor & Newtons finest. Should I give away the picture because I didnt make the canvas and the paint myself?

In any case Im not really taking sides in this issue, Im just trying to present a balanced view. Also it is a very interesting debate and everyone should be encouraged to state their opinion (if they have one) because if they dont then we only hear one side of the story.

But there is one thing that seriously bothers me about this campaign to destroy paysites, and it smacks of something nasty.

This is JM Pescado's Mission Statement on the Paysitesmustbedestroyed website

Firstly, we hate paysites. Are you a paysite owner? Well, we hate you, too.
We do it because it will piss you off. Yes, we are assholes. Tough.
Besides, you're only charging for bandwidth, right?
Isn't it so nice of us to contribute our $100/yr to alleviate your bandwidth load?
No? It pisses you off? Great! And now you know why we do this.

Nothing about eula's or copyright issues, no sensible argument against paysites, no proper critisism, just 'We hate you & We do it because it will piss you off'.

The guy is acting like a thug and a bully.

Sure, the Eula is stated on the first page of the site and the relevant bits are nicely highlighted so that we know what it is that we are supposed to be so incensed about, but the fact remains that no sensible argument, other than the Eula issue, has been put forward. My belief is that the Eula issue is for EAGames to resolve, not JM Pescado.

Lets also not overlook the fact that JM Pescado's site Moreawesomethanyou was also once a paysite. Did he see the light? or was he just incensed that other sites were making more money than he was. Judging from the tone of his mission statement, I know what I am inclined to believe.

There may be a good and strong moral argument against paysites out there, but this isnt it.

First I want to say thanks to Lita for allowing this debate to continue on here as I've been on other boards that squash any type of debates. Not saying I love debates but on some things it adds to discussion. ::smiles::
Also thanks for showing your opinions everyone!

Now back to topic:
Awh Barb you subscribed to TSR! Did you have to? hehe. You should have gone to the PaysitesMustBeDestroyed link in my sig like I suggested a few days ago, then you could have gotten all you wanted for free! ::Shakes head sadly::

Now just because EA doesn't do anything about it does not make it ok. It's like two guys writing down an agreement that they won't hit each other. Well guy A decides to hit guy B and guy B doesn't stop guy A. Not eceactly ok to continue hitting guy B. I know a bit over dramatic but it is what comes to mind! haha. Both sides should hold up to their agreement.

Lita I know what you were saying with the painting train of thought. Difference being those things you are using were made for that purpose whereas the game was meant to be played not really for the files to be messed around with and changed. It just so happened that people found a way and got interested in it and so it latter became apart of it. Hence the lines in the EULA.

For Pescado's Mission Statement.. that's just his sense of humor from what I've seen in his posts and that's Pescado for you. Does it make it nice? no. But hey they do highlight the parts of the EULA that explains the paysite issue and that IS the argument and believe it should be followed by both parties.
Also as far as I know JM Pescado's site has never been pay. He has it look that way on the front page of his site because that's his sense of humor. And I have to say I find it pretty funny! Haha. He's never charged though for any file of his what so ever.

Oh and should anyone want to unsubscribe to TSR (cause they really are horrible but that's like it's own new topic) I found some helpful hints from a
PaysitesMustBeDestroyed forum member:
Quote
How to Unsubscribe from TSR
With all this TSR stuff, you shouldn't need to have a sub again, unless you're some kind of masochist. TSR makes it hard for you to unsubscribe, because they are a stinking evil paysite. If you have a 2-month recurring sub, what you need to do is to go into your Paypal account and manually cancel your sub. (With Paypal, you can also filter your transactions by subscriptions, which would also bring up TSR) Find the receipt for payment from TSR (usually it's Jan Isaacson) and cancel recurring subscription. That is the most effective way to cancel. Don't let them take any more money from you!

Other notes:
- Juttaponath in the Booty is organized by page number in the Sets category. If you go to her mini-site and filter by all Set, you should come up with around 21 pages if you set view to 15 sets per page. Since Jutta is stupid about not naming 100 of her sets "Adult Silk Corset Underwear" or some shit, I've put it all by page number instead. I will work on something similar with Sims2sisters at some point.

- Along with full sets, I'll be adding single meshes by FAs and RAs to their folders, because some creators like Lianaa, Sophel21 etc require meshes from other creators. This should solve that whole ridiculous "pay mesh, free colour" nonsense they have at TSR too. I have not packaged them together with the sets, so you would need to search for the meshes yourself. Razz Sorry. Hey, TSR makes you do it, too!

i'm 15 but yea.. nothing bully about this site. they shouldn't take it personal

Bah!  I can't log into that site.  T2, since the point about Paypal being a secure way of paying has been raised in that thread, you could take the opportunity to point out that Paypal does release your actual home address to the sites you send money to, and that there have been instances of paysite owners publishing subscribers' addresses.  That should put a few people off paying for paysites!

There is no 15. This is still 12.

You are hereby officially warned for failing to convincingly pretend to be older than 12.

Sorry but what you have just said does not make sense to me?  ???
I'm sorry for the hassle if any.

I'm just stuck on the part where someone said TSR was 'great value for your money'. Yeah, it is.. if you download the stuff from the booty. Honestly. There's maybe three talented creators on the entire site.

It is relative - let's take out the fact for a moment that this is illegal, or at the very least, highly unethical, and look at the financials. To buy everything you want from Vita, you have to spend several dollars per set. That adds up QUICKLY. On the other hand, TSR's 5 bucks a month (yeah, it's 10 for 2 months, but whatever) gives you access to MANY MORE Files, and frankly, you can get hundreds of sets costing pennies versus maybe two sets from someone like Vita for the same cost. So from a value standpoint, they ARE a good value.

See the difference?

Just because Matt Stone and Trey Parker say that it's OK to illegally download episodes of South Park doesn't mean that it's suddenly legal and morally OK.

And any glaring plot holes would be like Peggy's and Rose's hair gaps!  ;)