PMBD

Have you changed your mind about how you feel toward the paysite issue?

All voters may stay anonymous.

Just another of my curious ponderings,  I wonder how many have switched their way of thinking, one way or another.

I've always felt paysites are a slap in the face.

I moved this topic so lurkers could see it.

For the record, I'm against paysites, and always have been. :P

Well I never, I wouldn't have guessed. :D

What is wrong with your avi anyway?  All I see is a broken jpeg.

I was kind of neutral to begin with. I've always disliked paysites but I used to just avoid them. I heard about this site and came here and my first thought was, "Yay! Free stuff!"

Later I came to the forum and read about issues with paysites such as: sharing personal info of their subscribers, supporting themselves off their sites, converting meshes for TS2 and claiming they made it from scratch, selling crappy content because you can't tell the quality of what you're buying, arrogant attitudes, calling their business transactions "donations", banning people who still have subscribtion time left so they don't get what they already paid for, and other crap. Plus the fact that other gaming communities don't have the mentality of "I made this and it took forever, so I deserve money!"

So reading about the debates has only solidified my opinion.

At first, [being the naive, impressionable little girl i was] i thought paysites were fine, and when people said stuff about PMBD, i thought they should go rot somewhere [and i said so.] But then i took the time to read through the EULA, and my viewpoints shifted completely. Then i pillaged to my hearts content.  :D

At first I thought...
"Oooh!  That looks pretty!   I want it but I can't pay for it."   :D
That was Sims 1 and  part of Sims 2 days.  I buckled and got a subscription and thought
"Oooh!  Exclusivity and it looks so pretty!"   :o
I really started to think about it after I subscribed to a site that really had nothing on it and thought  
"Oooh!  That was a waste of money!"  :?
It was Peggy that really started to get me thinking...
"Why the hell would I want 6 MONTHS for $40?" :x

Then I decided...okay, let me just do this every once in a while...and then I started looking at the money in my bank account and decided that donating to a bunch of sites was a waste of my time and money and that I should really just look for quality things for free and donate to smaller sites that could actually use the money to keep the ACTUAL site running.

I absolutely, totally, agree with you.  Which is why I don't get involved in silly threads like that.  But, we're about free speech here, so I don't delete too many things.



Yes, send your money to me so I can keep buying booty to share with all of you. :P

Let's see if we can work out a plan  :lol:

i'm not really for or against. even if maxis never claimed ownership over custom content, i'd still grab all the free shit i could get my hands on heyy. but i'm also the kind of person who downloads music and bootlegs movies, so that comes as no surprise.

I never gave it that much thought as to "wrong" or "right" until quite recently.  I played Sims 1 from almost the beginning, have every expansion pack, read forums frequently, and watched the beginnings of this thing develop. When I came into Sims2, kind of late, I was shocked at how widespread the paysite thing had become--and how much of THEIR content was either directly stolen or derivative--from poser meshes used without credit, to brand names used without permission.

Lately I've given it a lot of thought, and occasionally the balance would tilt toward something like "I can't blame people for trying to make some money but I want the free stuff, so screw 'em," but after giving it more thought, and considering alot of the issues people have brought to the discussions, I've reached my final conclusion.

Paysites must, indeed, be destroyed.

Always hated paysites and always will

But hating paysites was my hobby, so the sxpression "Can't live with them, can't live without" fits here.

I used to not mind paysites and I even subscribed to some.  But since I've read up on the debate and actually began playing the game with my pay hairs instead of just making and seeing the problems with them, I've come to realise that paysites just aren't worth the money.

I used to be neutral-negative.  I disliked paysites heartily, and thought charging was stupid, but I was of the opinion that they had a right to exist.

This was before I read the EULA section on the main site.

Now I think they should burn.

Especially Simfreaks and WDS, because they started this whole thing in TS1.  Then TSR followed suit.  And then everything became shitty.

And, did you know, right at the beginning of the TS2 community, Peggy was free?

I've been pirating content ever since I knew how to pirate stuff, and that goes with CC as well. I don't necessarily feel the same way about pirating other types of media as I do about Sims CC though - I purchase DVDs depending on how much I want to support the creators of the films and TV series that I enjoy.

With Sims 2 content, however, there is no question that I am entirely opposed to paysites. This is something that should never have been sold in the first place. I think of it as a free, benefit-type concert that you've been attending for years that suddenly decided to charge for admissions. I believe that charging for CC is exploitative and exclusionary, and always will.

(like yer proper Chaotic Neutral) I don't mind paysites in a sense I don't mind con artists: it's highly disreputable activity that I keep away from, but if some bastard has enough wit and not enough conscience they can go and trick dem poor naive peasants for all I care. Still, all the hissy fits about the whole issue proved that con artists are way classier than paysite moneygrubbers, because if they get burned on one or another scheme of theirs, they don't have the nerve to whine about "injustice done to them", but quietly move to another scheme.

At first, paysites just bothered me because... well, there was stuff. Nice stuff. And I could not have it.
So, I just looked longingly at pictures people took when they did have it, and left it at that.
The sites themselves didn't bug me. I had kind of a blasé attitude about it. "Sure, let 'em make their money, whatever."
I even considered opening a paysite of my own. (Not, you understand, to be rolling in the BIG MONEY, or anything. It was going to take the profits, and use them to get subscriptions to paysites I really wanted items from. After I had one subscription's worth, I planned on just making things free again.)

When I found this site, though, I was pretty happy. I never thought about something like this, or Sims File Vault. Sure, I figured people shared files with their friends, but sites where the things were just posted? Or you could request and share them with others? I was so pleasantly surprised.
I felt a little uncertain about it, at first, but after reading the EULA bit, most of my apprehension was gone.

I'm not sure what option I'd go under, though. I guess it'd be "paysite supporter turned anti-paysite".

Lol, good point Dorquemada :D

I'm not sure what to think anymore, but I wouldn't be here if my mind hadn't been changed at least somewhat.

I create, and I spend a lot of time creating, so I understand why creators might want to get something back monetarily for their efforts.  I also have always created for free, and I don't think pay content is really any better than what's free - in fact often the opposite, so I wonder why certain creators decide that their work is worth money while what others make is not.  When I think of my favourite content, it is all free.  I've thought about doing pay content, but never have, because I just don't feel comfortable charging for something that shouldn't be paid for.

This is a game, and we are hobbyists, and if people are in it for the money, they're in it for the wrong reason.  Do it for the love of creation or not at all.  I've come to a point where I do sort of feel like it'd be better to have less content than to have this big pay silliness.

I don't agree with everything about the way this site is run, and I don't think that negativity will help anything, but I would greatly prefer to see the Sims 2 community return to free content, and to remove the greed from our hobby.  I want everyone to have nice stuff for their pixel dollies... so I'm just gonna keep on making free hair for everyone and hopefully everyone will end up better and smarter for the whole thing.

Before all of this I was paying for CC from a couple places.  It was starting to piss me off though at what they were charging and some of the content was not as advertised and or was messed up.  

It didn't take me long to just say screw it and totally stop paying for CC.  I only have one left and when the days run out I will never renew it.  

I've grown weary of the acceptance of paysites by so many people.  It has become the norm and that has to stop.  It's gone on for far too long.

I have paid enough for the base game and EP's and I refuse to pay for CC anymore.

I do agree with what someone said earlier in regards to some of the discussions on here.   They are quite retarded at times and that is why I do not post here on a regular basis.  I'm not about personal attacks on what people look like and such.  That's pathetic.

It's a game and I think some folks on both sides of the fence have lost sight of that.  It's a game that provides entertainment and nothing more.

I never donated or bought subscriptions to any Sims 2 CC site, and never would unless it was truely a donation and I felt the creator truely deserved... that is, she (or he, whatever) had very high quality stuff, was very consistant in quality, etc. Then I'd throw a few bucks over for bandwidth or dirty jockstrap purchases or whatever. You know. I don't really care what t hey'd do with my hypothetical donation. And I'd be FAR less likely to donate if the creator was trying to make a living doing CC, as opposed to just trying to cover operating costs or make a little extra pocket money.

That being said, I don't pirate or fileshare music or movies, although I do download some tv shows (especially if I miss an episode), and I do download out-of-print RPG books. So My filesharing standards are loose and flexible and honestly, there's no real logical reasong for why I download some stuff but not others.

I'm just amazed how you guys can "argue"(read debate) about the same fricking thing over and over again without getting tired.  8)

I don't give a fuck, really. I just think that paysites are wrong and we'd all be better off them. Whether it's right or wrong, I take what I want. And don't care much for else. It's just a game which I don't even play much, I just have a download addiction. I'm always amused how paysite owners get so pissed off(maybe they need some time away from the compy, just to see that some kind of game content isn't all that and a bag of chips) and if they decide to take their toys and go home, I won't care cause I don't give a crap about CC, I can live without it.

Well, I have been lurking here a long, long time. I respect the right of people to create things (and sell them if they find a buyer) but I have to say my eyes have been opened by the spoiled and babyish way some of these 'creators' have reacted.

Selling information? That smacks of telemarketers--another whole group who should be destroyed. Childish rants about how you are some uber, alpha being and the rest of us are scum? What the hell?

I really can't stand drama queens or people who set themselves up as 'super people' because they make computerized items.  Yes, a lot of pay stuff is great, but there is a whole lot of free stuff just as good or better.

I have not paid for custom content because I'm cheap and like value for my money. While I admire many of the items you can buy, I can't see spending when I have generous friends who share with me. :)

Once you spend your money, you have the right to do what you want with the items. If that means emailing it to your best friend or posting it, well, it was paid for.  

In addition, the vague replies from EA/Maxis/Whoever they are confirms to me that yes, this is just a game, and no, they don't care what's going on with these pay sites.

My friends and I would share payfiles via MSN and so on, and I'd privately redistribute payfiles quite a lot, but I was never particularly militant over the issue, it was more a case of 'paysites are there, they shouldn't be, but who the fuck am I to do anything about it?'.

I was never particularly militant over the issue either, and while I believe in filesharing more strongly now, I mostly debate it as hard as I do because it amuses me to see people get so mad. :P

This is supposed to be a game not something you make commercial products out of that you sell to make a profit 8) .

I dont understand why paysite enthusiasts dont do the math numbers, and stop being naieve that this is about making money.

500 subscribers x 5.00 ea $2500
1000                                $5000
2000                                 $10000  
5000                                 $50000
Get the picture now hefty cash just for maintenace.
And if your in China, yuan from dollar 390,254.9982

I've only been here a day and these debates changed my mind about pay sites on so many levels. I'm never even going to consider subscribing. I'll get that shitty "free subscription day" from TSR once in a while though.

I've never been one to support pay sites.  I have always found what I wanted on free sites.  If there was something I really wanted, I would ask my friends who paid for pay sites to let get it for me.  There were a bunch of items that once in my game, they looked awful.  I work hard for my money and am too much of a tightwad to just give it away for my 'hobby'.  Plus there is always something my kids want that I would prefer to spend my money on.  With me, the paysites aren't losing my money because they never had it in the first place.  I would be willing to support this site because it wouldn't be just for me.  Wacked thinking, I know, but I can justify this.   :?

Nope, not at all. I hate paysites; always have, always will.

PMBD!

It's just a computer game afterall, I'm not paying big bucks (turns out dearer for me because or exchange rates) when I've already paid money for the game. Yes, owners need to pay for bandwidth, but it gets to the point where they now charge for something they may have spent an extra hour on just because they know people will pay for it.

I used to pretty much ignore paysites, apart from possibly getting a little peeved if a nice looking free recolor somewhere was linked to a pay mesh.

What really changed my mind about paysites was the information sharing scandal. Plus the whiny hissy fits that some of the creators had both horrified and amused me. Such a lack of professionalism on their part.

I also have to say, I took some of the booty and found that it wasn't all that...  There is just as good, if not better free stuff available if you are willing to dig for it.

And now I'm just rambling so I'll call it quits here. :P

While I'm against paysites, I do not mind free websites with a few donation sets (no more than 3). I think it is fine, as they probably don't make much profit out of it.

Personal attacks happen, it's life. I hope no one actually expected that as there are no rules. People do it as well on other forums, they just get their posts deleted. ;)

I did pay for the landscape pack from 4ESF. They've got tons of free stuff, most of it pretty good, and I felt it was worth it for what I was getting, it's a lovely set that I use all the time. In retrospect, I would much rather have had the choice -- I would have donated anyway if it was just a request, and maybe even more than what I paid for the pack. When a price is put on it, though, I'm not giving one dime more than required.

I have, rather unfortunately, donated for 6 sites. Without a) my parents' permission and b) my parents knowing. Not good.
I mean, I have my own credit card, but yeah...
6 months ago I'd have defended paysites with my life. Probably. Actually, I wouldn't have, but yeah. I received an email inviting me to join SFV and I thought it was a scam! It was surely illegal, I told myself.
My friend told me about this site a few weeks ago, and my first thought was, isn't that illegal? She sent me to the title page and I read through all your information, and guess what? Now I hate paysites with a PASSION, would NOT defend a SINGLE ONE and am also trying to warn others of the evil that calls itself DONATION SITES. Donation my arse.
So yeah, I went from 100%-paysite adorer to 100%-paysite hater. And here, in my little seat on the pirate ship floating between PMBD and SFV, shall I remain, in my little happy glory. Yay! :D 8)

paysite supporters are just as bad as paysite owners, simply because they support illegal activity.  Would you fund drug dealers?

Well, I wouldn't call myself a supporter, exactly, but I do pay for a lot of custom content.

No comment about the drug thing. :P

Yes, but you share with us. You're not buying because you want to give every last one of them your money and get nothing but a bunch of pixel graphics back out of it. You do it so that you AND THE POOR PEOPLE get nothing but a bunch of pixel graphics out of it and you get the warm fuzzy feeling of joy that you HELPED.

I had created a weird analogy when I was half asleep this morning:

Paysites remind me of Robin Hood and homeless people.

Paysites are taking from the poor, so it's like a business (and therefore the Sherriff of Nottingham). The people on this site are like Robin Hood and we're taking from the rich, but not necessarily to just give to the poor. It's like baking a million cakes and laying them out in front of people who know what they like. They can choose the apple tart if they want to, or the sponge if they'd rather. Or they can have both.
I mean, we allow you to buy food for the homeless. We bought it first and gave it to you. They're like gifts. Why shouldn't we be allowed to buy pixel graphics and let more than one person benefit from them? I know I let people have the stuff I download with my subs, so why shouldn't we do it good and proper(ly) and publicly?

Sorry for the random analogy, but that's another way I feel about paysites. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the legality factor.

Plus I talked to my parents about this debate (without actually stating anything about this site or that I was a part of it) and they told me that it isn't illegal because if you made a masterpiece using MSPaint, you shouldn't have to give them any money coz it's your masterpiece. That made me mad so I explained about the user agreement and they said by checking the box, you've agreed to the contract, and by breaking the contract you are liable to be sued.

I think all paysite owners should be sued.

The last thing I think is that every paysite supporter comes on this site and mentions how some people are living out of their sims donations. What I wonder is; why haven't any of these people mentioned TSR? TSR definitely aren't doing it because they need the money to live. Whatsisface-Thomas-guy must be a bloody millionaire by now. You can't rewrite history to suit yourselves.

(I'm doing Law at school. We should be doing contract law soon. I'll tell you the punishments. :D 8) )

Wait wait wait, comparing something to do with a game with substances and activities that kill thousands of people every year and are nothing like said game activities? Robin Hood? SUING PEOPLE OVER A GAME?

*head explodes from the vortex made by the sheer lack of logic in this thread*

We are dealing with the game's pixel graphics here. There isn't any logic in suing people over game content anyway. It's just a game that we all like playing.

I was just saying that people take it too far. The analogy was only HALF serious. :D :lol:

And there HAVE been other people on this site (namely paysite-defenders) who actually mention Robin Hood. More than one. Most saying we're not. I was taking it into account.  :lol:

*tries to find a mop and a bucket to mop up Renatus's exploded brains*

Yeah Im going to have to put BlueSoup under the Robin Hood Catagory, shes the hero of the people aside from Pescado.

Aside from Pescado, pfftt...he only pays for the space, Surelyfunke and I are the ones who actually fill it. ;)

heh interesting, I though you where Pescados First Mate, he must be taking alot of the credit.

He doesn't take the credit, really, people just give it to him.  Which is fine with me.  He can take the heat too.

I was a live and let live sort of person with paysites. Very, very occasionally, I'd pay for a donation, but having limited discretionary income rather dampened my desire for still another long hair mesh.

It was when I did indeed pay for something on a very popular and more pricier site and got unusable crap in return ... that's when I changed my mind. I e-mailed the owner a few times, and was very nice and understanding ... the first two times. The last time, I admit to being a bit more strident. I didn't even get an FU. He got my money. Why should he care if I got ripped off or not?

Fool me once and all that. And then when I've read that others have had the same experience with other sites ... well, that's pretty much squelched my desire to pay for Sims content. I'd rather give to a free site or to here.

Paying money for CC has never been something that I would do. Mostly because I don't even have that much CC in my game to begin with. Actually, before I discovered this place the only CC I had was hacks, and some wallpapers and floors that came with houses I had downloaded. Also I hardly ever play the game, and when I do I don't spend my time building or furnishing houses. I can't live without hacks though, that's for sure.

To be honest, I like Maxis' stuff and have yet to come across much custom content that comes anywhere near them in quality, except possibly some stuff from Holy Simoly, Nouk, and some other wonderful creators whom I'm forgetting to mention right now. Maybe I didn't look hard enough... wait, let me rephrase that... I definitely didn't look hard enough, or maybe I'm too anal, or maybe most things out there are sub par. What Maxis lacks in creativity, it makes up in quality. I'd rather look at something that's uglier with better textures than something gorgeous with mesh flaws. Having said that, I couldn't build a mesh to save my life, and I am amazed by most creators' talent and really appreciate the time, effort, and money they put into these things. Besides, apparently most people enjoy their work so much that they are willing to pay great amounts for it, so what do I care? Anyway, I'm ending my little rant about custom content in general here.

When I found out about this place, I figured I should just grab some pay stuff while I could. Not because I was gonna use all of them in my game (and since no one seemed to care about bandwidth anyway), but because I wanted to see what was so great about them that made people shell out so much cash. Some of them were good (still not worth the money -nothing is-, but good), some of them were pure crap. I'd hit my head against the nearest wall if I had to pay for those and saw just how crappy they were in game. Hiding the shittiness of your stuff behind photoshopped pictures, that's wrong. Since these people see their websites as valid businesses, I don't see why they should get away with things that other businesses can't.

And since when selling custom content for a freaking game is a valid business anyway? I'm not normally one to tell people to get off their asses and find a job, although some people DO need to be told that, but seriously... wtf? And to top it off, these people see it fit to treat their "customers" like shit instead of getting down on their knees and thanking these generous souls (read: newbies who don't know any better) for putting the food on their table, as proven by some creators in the "Why do people hate paysites?" thread. The mesh theft that some seem to practise aside, these people are building businesses on shady legal grounds (EULA) with misleading "advertisements" and non-existent customer service.

But who are we to take it upon ourselves to put an end to this corruption, right? Well, actually... The community has spoken. (There's a phrase I've always wanted to say.) Most people do not want paysites, even those who have paid in the past and are willing to do so again for content they might want. One person can only do so much. A whole community, on the other hand, has the power to decide who stays and who goes. Also, what really concerns me and possibly anyone else who's against paysites, is the fact that the number of paysites is growing too fast, indeed they are becoming the norm. Last time I checked there were only a few, and the biggest one of them, TSR, still had the free rotation thingy. Now they are slowly taking over. As teadrinker said in another thread, TSR is becoming a black hole sucking more creators in, while people like Carla Niven see having a paysite as an opportunity to make a few bucks off underage kids who save their pocket money to buy crappy stuff for their sims. If nothing is done soon, there won't be any free content left.

So yeah, now I'm 100% anti-paysite and pro-filesharing. As I said, I don't care too much for CC. Sure, I enjoy good content as much as the next person, but when it comes down to it, I could live without any CC at all EXCEPT hacks. Simslice is the only paysite out there that specializes in hacks (and crappy ones at that) if I'm not mistaken, and I don't want their stuff in my game, so for now I'm not affected too much by paysites anyway. I'm just against paysites on principle, not for personal gain. Whatever it takes to destroy them, I'm all for it. I actually haven't said anything that hasn't been said, but I just needed to rant a little. I also didn't mean to shit all over every creator out there and their work, but most of them aren't to my taste. Besides, I'm not the one to decide whose content is "worthy" anyway.

i was reading through the copyright (US) and all the laws. Well first of all, EA is the copyright,  etc of SIMS products. Any game file that is created is a deriviative, as it requires special format to play, and ofen the person used things such as Maxis animations etc. Its a deriviative. Its not the same as file shareing music, or a movie, or software, or even art whic is illegal. If you read through the whole copyright law information the government has posted up you will see kind of what Im saying. There is a problem, if A went to file a copyright on this file  what form is he going to use to submit it? I saw no special section in the law for content, user made to go in a game. Ea can add to Sims legally but we cant. Anyone can make a copyright terms, that doesnt mean legally it would hold water in court. I see often dont redistrubute, even on free stuff. COme on you made this thing for fun! I can understand not wanting it uploaded at the Exchange, or sold in a CD collection, but if a friend or relative has no internet connection or a slow one, most people would probably share with them. So, you really cant compare the CC game file to music, or software in my opinion. Your parents are ust being cautious, but anybody can put a copyright notice on a file, lets go see them file it. I'd like to see them go file it, see if they can and post the proof up. You know stop the bluffing, prove it copyright it, apply for it and all..

When I first heard about it I thought it was awful, how could people STEAL from the nice paysite owners like Lyriclee!?

Then I realized Lyric, who had told me about it, was a fucktard.

Then I found out nobody's hacking any servers or anything, and on top of that, it's illegal to begin with.

Suddenly, I was anti-paysite.

Well, Pescado is to blame for EVERYTHING bad. Just ask HChangeri. She'll tell you. *nods convincingly*

Hmph...I don't think none of the options apply to me... :? I've always had a love/hate relationship with them, paysites, but I used to somewhat respect creators for the "time and effort" they had put into "making all the new and unique objects for us to enjoy".

But I still could realise that peggy for example used the money she earned for much more than simple bandwidth costs. The thing is I was constient of that fact, but still wanted the stuff she made for my story and simply for the pleasure of playing and having what I could see in other people's pics...  :roll: That's human nature, after all

This is exactly why I put the option of 'Other'.

This debate has been an eye-opener to me.  I felt rather cheated by the Paysite owners for "selling" someone else's hard work to me.  I create as well and i spend hours on making something unique.

One of the things that gets me about paysites and their creators is that they download free stuff from others (at least the ones that play) and yet they then charge for their stuff.  Where is that fair?

And that's why I now voted for 'other'.