PMBD

I just stumbled upon this post while browsing through the sims 3 forums minutes ago. It was posted by a simguru. Note that they are promoting PAYSITES. Modthesims isn't even on that stupid list.
http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/77757.page

Worst of all...

How typical of them. >_>

Well considering some of the paysites content, like those 'donation hairs' Rose put up, were made with community created tools that expressly say in their terms of use the person using them must agree to that anything made with them must be file share friendly, EA can go fuck themselves.

C'mon! 'till paysites are for pay as their shop, people will continue to buy their shit. If those buyers will meet free stuff at MTS and other sites, they'll ask 'em "why are we paying this crap when we can grab awesomeness for FREE?" and EA will lose a lot of moneys.

Always remember, they don't want you, but the 266$ they can earn from you. I propose to nuke 'em.

There we go, see how long it stays up for.
http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/0/81535.page#820175 (http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/0/81535.page#820175)

Hm, unfortunately all those sites suck...

I love this part of Hydrants statement.

Peggy's #2 on her little list.

(http://www.peggyzone.com/objectimg/F_clothe_ft_0030_b.jpg)

However to be fair her bewbs are not hanging out so I guess it could be considered appropriate for 13 yr old girls. IF YOU LIVE IN THE LAND OF WHORE!

Next.

Reading over at MTS, you can't link to MTS on the BBS. If you do, you get banned. Not shocking though.

Also reading there, TSR was going to get rid of the ban on linking to MTS on their site. Thomas told Delphy that apparently there is some internal resistance to the agreed upon plans. They were going to have a warning popup when you click a link going to MTS. CatOfEvilGenius and Inge Jones made some good points about this:

I don't see anything on mod the sims that would be considered non PG13. I understand the adult content used to be on mod the sims until they split it off, sexy sims also needs separate registration.  If I had a young teen I would feel safer them visiting modthesims rather than TSR.  The only reason I can see for TSR not wanting any of the members being able to link to MTS is:-

They would be able to see better quality downloads than their FA's for free.
A forum where things are discussed fairly openly, they are bound to read something about TSR's wrong doings.
It wouldn't be long before the members of TSR realised MTS is doing and has been doing for years, something that TSR claims can't be done, running a huge site without one single pay file to pay for bandwidth with everything that could be needed for simming.
The real reason TSR doesn't want links to MTS on their site,  Fear.

This disclaimer is the end of my The Sims 3 experience. God how much i hate this game and who produced it.

What's weird is that you seem to able to mention Mod the Sims all you want.  I've been posting over there telling people to check out Mod the Sims but not posting a link.  I wonder why the double standard?

You want to know my opinion?
Fuck you EA.

Because SimGuruHydra has a brain the size of an ant and doesn't seem to equate that MTS=MTS2 thus she probably thinks you are talking about a different site.

Well done TapThatBooty, if you can enlighten a few bbsers it'll be worthy. I'm really surprised the thread is still there :) All the SimGuruEmptyBrains must be assisting a brainwash seance.

I've posted as well - I'll likely get a ban again *shrug*

I'm shocked that it is still there too  ;D. From what people are saying on that, there are a few others on there that seem to be aware and unhappy with EA, I say that like we should be suprised hehe.

EDIT.
It would appear that the thread has been taken down now *rolls eyes*.

Wow, EA is pathetic.

And you're suprised?  ;)

I'm surprised that she's surprised.

Nah, I'm just making a statement that we all know is true. I have a thing for stating the obvious. x]
But seriously, I'm disappointed in EA for trying to keep the community so ignorant. (You see, there I go again! XD) What happened to freedom of speech? I'm debating on whether or not I should buy their new EP and support them. Don't get me wrong, the game is fun; it's just that their creators aren't.

-edited for bad grammar. :P-

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/janako/despair.5.jpg)

I think that is EA's way of thinking.

Alinda - Get the EP used, that way you don't support EA.

Or she could ARRRR it? That's what I have been doing since Teen Style Stuff came out for The Sims 2. My copy of Freetime was a gift from EA though. I had won a competition on the UK forum.

I'm more surprised that I didn't get banned.

Alinda- it is not the creators fault that the SimGuruAxoids choose to support non PG-13 paysites when there are plenty of PG-13 freesites (nonsensica, clutter a holic, Maxis Dreams- actually out of the 127 free sites I have on my links list- more than 3/4's of them could be considered PG-13 by EA standards) that they could post links for other than Parsims (not that I have a problem with this, love Kates work).

The creators are the programmers and graphic artists are usually  hired by EA on a short term bases (usually less then a year for most video game franchises) to create their games. They are paid little and don't have any power whatsoever when it comes to running how the Sims franchise is promoted, or how the Official Sites are run.

The executive in charge - I believe Ben Bell is the one with the power to make these decisions, and he is either very ignorant, or supports paysites like TSR himself therefore violating the EULA he came up with, or just doesn't give a shit what SimGuruHydra and the rest of them are promoting as PG-13 on the website that he is supposed to oversee.

No matter how you buy the game the actual creators e.g. the ones doing all of the work (sort of- I wouldn't be motivated to a job well either if it was a poorly paid- relatively speaking, temp job) rather than sitting in an office and they probably don't see one shred of the profits.

Buy it used- off of Ebay that way EA doesn't get one dime- unless you really want the store points ( and the new store stuff is usually posted within a week on other sites- not that I promote arring Store Stuff since it is EA's game and they can charge for content) really it isn't worth it, or just wait til it goes in the Bargain Bin because the Vacation EP's have usually been the least popular in the series so it will probably be selling for 19.99 USD within a year.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me, dstar. I don't want go around hating the wrong people. I don't give a crap about store points. I don't even use most of the items that come with the game.


-facepalm- Why have I never thought of that? I've been buying new games at full price from Target all this time. It never even occurred to me to find used ones. I should shop online more often. :P



Thanks for the advice, but I think I'll stay legit for this one. I admit it, I have thought about it though. XD

I guarantee you Modthesims will NEVER be listed because of their past with having adult-related materials. It doesn't matter that they no longer have adult content there--they USED to and because of that EA has blacklisted them for life. I think that's ludicrous, but hey it's EA we're talking about here.

And what's with Hydra's signature? Whoever made it needs to go back to second grade. It's "Gurus", idiots.

Really? I thought that was what SexySims was for. I don't know much about MTS's past, since I was never really interested in CC until late in the Sims 2 series. That seems so silly. People change. Websites change. They should really give MTS another chance. :\ EA should really see the "More Smutty Than You" thread... or at least take a look at kenmtl's post. Then again, if they did, they wouldn't care anyway.

I think that signature was made by someone for the SimGurus team for a "food fight" game on the forums. I remember seeing the thread before, but it didn't seem very interesting. I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out. There are lots of kids out there. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever made that was in the second grade either.

MTS still has the teen pregency hack and the nude hack.  EA considers that adult content (its stated specifically in their forum guidelines)

I believe it is for one of their... *facepalm*  BBS 'food fights'. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Gurus" were 12s also.

Yet, TSR's stuff is far more adult and they are the favorites - reminds me of when I was growing up.....eventually they will bite EA more directly and they'll be where my sister is now - barely spoken to.

karma catches up with everyone eventually.  Its the reason why I'm always so 'meh' about people who've hurt me.  They'll get whats coming to them in the end, so, whatever.

This is true, and if you want to speed Karma up, you just curse the person to get what exactly they deserve [and if somehow things aren't how they look, its no longer a curse] :D

EA has gotten even more greedy not. Reading an article about Madden NFL, they are charging extra for everything. Everything for simple little things to get rid of a one time injury, to boosting your player stats cost. For $5 you get the Elite Status which will let players "access exclusive VIP lobbies, leaderboards and play the all new Elite Gametype," which is essentially a tougher difficulty setting.

I don't play any sports game (I hate most sports period), but it was on Yahoo's front page about extras for Madden costing, and I knew Madden was produced by EA, so I wanted to see what the extras were, and how much they cost.

And for the EA game Skate 2 there was an unlock everything cheat code, which you could by from EA for $5

Link to article here: http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/madden-nfl-10-charges-extra-for-well-everything/1342925


Now, one thing I have not seen anyone report on is the outrage about the Sims Store.

That's because too many gamer sites still act like women [and let's face it, sims is known as a 'woman's' game] don't game, and so don't report much on it.  On the other hand, sports games are nice and manly.  Besides, compared to the sims store, the sports game stuff is a -huge- rip, which is saying a whole lot.

A german game magazine had a review about the EA Store/Exchange. They said in short that Riverview is nice, the store much to expensive and together with the Exchange there is nothing you would miss. - And they said that it looks like EA put popular content like hair in the Store instead in the game to get more money.

Link for all who are able to read german:
http://www.gamestar.de/specials/spiele/1956803/die_sims_3_online_funktionen.html#

99% of gaming sites suck hugely. You can't trust their reviews because the reviewers will get in trouble if they don't like a game whose ads are plastered on the site. They cater specifically to the pseudo-macho sexist homophobic male dorks they think all gamers are. Multiple studies have shown that females make up at least 40% of gamers but those gaming sites are stuck in some neverland locker room filled with boobie pictures and EA cash. Some of the reviewers (almost all of whom are male) might want to change, but the suits, who don't know anything about gaming, won't let them. The sites don't care about consumers anyway, they care about the huge game companies, with EA heading the list.

Some day, game reviewers will get the same kind of clout and independence movie and book reviewers have. Until then I get my reviews and gaming news from certain bloggers and other peoples' posts on forums.

And isn't that number still growing, because more and more females are getting into different types of games.

Yep. When I worked in a game store, the only kind of game I could really say I never saw any woman buy for herself was a football game. Women dominated sales of Sims games, but they were also a slight majority in sales of JRPGs, and were about co-equal with men in buying other RPGs, platformers, survival-horror, adventure games, shooters, racing games, and sports games besides basketball, football and boxing. Men were slightly ahead in buying fighting games, and Madden releases were testosterone central.

My own observations obviously don't make for a scientific study. But I also think women buy games online more often than men. It's gotten slightly better recently, but women being treated like garbage when they actually go to a store to purchase a game is still pretty common. And while the employees tend to be better, fellow customers aren't necessarily; being latched onto by some creepy nerd because omg UR A GIRL is not a pleasant experience.

I worked in a game store in the "hood" and had approximately the same observations.  My theory on why more chicks buy online is more pricing than nerd grope though (at least in my neck of the woods).  I had one middle aged lady come in to buy one some street racing game who said she'd looked online for a "used" price and didn't find any yet so she came there instead.  This was before the EB/GameStop merger and we had a crapload of used games and DVDs at GameStop then. 

The girl nerd discrimination thing was worse there for the employees.  There were three of us chicks (me the punk rock white looking girl, an asian tomboy, and a cute little red head rocking some cat eye glasses, all girl nerd stereotypes covered) and customers would frequently request the help of other employees when we'd ask to help them find something. 

Amusingly, we were the only PC gamers in the shop with different areas of expertise so it wasn't uncommon for the idiot customers to get sent back to us anyway.  Bonus points if they had their laptops with them and needed help on an install.  Nothing quite like showing off to smack down a douchbag.  Not that installing a game is really all that hard usually, but still.

We had quite a few customers who insisted the girls who worked at the game store could not possibly play games because we were girls. Women did this at least as often as men did. "Gee, these boys and their games, they're so silly, don't you think?" The gobsmacked look I'd get from those bottle blond trophy wives when I told them I played video games was priceless. (This was not a store in the "hood", it was a store in a very wealthy suburban so-called "community".) And there was one peach of a guy who told us we were lying when my assistant manager and I told him we did play games -- obviously we didn't have any skills, we were just hired to look cute. She was within an inch of throwing him out, till he spotted the guy who was working there that night and glommed onto him. But the customer was looking for a PC game so my coworker had to run back and forth between the idiot and me to figure things out ::).

Then there were the guys who believed we played games and this was the biggest turn-on of their lives. *shudders*

You know I only had a few skeevy guys of that variety.  Most of them were more like, "wow that's hot.  SO can you help me figure this out?"  Which I thought was pretty cool.  It was also helpful for increase my upsell figures quite a bit. 

Unfortunately it seems that people don't seem to pay much attention to females when it comes to computers.  Its kind of a pet peeve for my, so I'm having to restrain myself from having a heavily explexitive laden rant here.

Me, I never discuss games or playing them in meatspace, mostly because nobody ever asks. The wife, on the other hand, refuses to discuss the matter with outsiders, dismissing the conversation as a "dumb male thing". This will do absolutely nothing to stop her from kicking your ass at the game, though.

I was a sculpture/Comp sci major in college before having to move -very- suddenly.  I was writing code on TRS 80s, with the cassette drives.  I used to get the -old- computer kits for doing punch card computing, as a kid, before there were anything beyond mainframes, really.

And I've played in arcades.

Oddly, in my part of the southeast, it seems gamer chicks are far more accepted.  Or maybe its just going to the store with guys, who have no problems going to the female employees and asking questions.  But its the same way with the other big Geek activity, pnp RPGs.  Guys took the longest to realize women can game, and I've actually been kicked from a game group because half the guys were macho pigs and the other half were tired of listening to the macho pigs treating me like crap for being the one female in the group.

So half were macho pigs and the other half were cowardly assholes without the guts to tell the macho pigs were to go? And you wanted to play with these jackasses why?

I still don't know where people find these men.

I met my husband as he ran a Game store for a while. We played my old Sunday DnD game in the back room of his store as well as many other games my husband GM'd for us. There were several of us who were female in the group. No one had any problem with us girls playing with the guys. Heck, they thought it was great and cool. But I can understand the other side as well.

Ah, well. Yay for all us geeks!

I've replied to Hydra's thread in the Sims3 forums.

http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/0/90227.page#953611

Jump in if you'd like, before Hydra stompinates it! ;)

That was a great post CatofWar. And its got a second page of comments, so there are people posting on it, and other good thing. I would post links to some of the content you mentioned, but I'm not logged in the site on this computer (I was logged in one day, the next day the site had logged me out), and it takes way too long for the thing to come up so I can log in (I'm on dial up). If its still there tomorrow, and no one has posted links, I do it on my parents computer because they have high speed.

Thank you, rum nate.  Links would be good, but I avoided them in the original post because Hydra would definitely use that as a reason to delete it.  They hate links to MTS, and especially MATY and PMBD, if I understand right.  I feel kind of cowardly about that, actually, but I hope it will make the post longer lived, and maybe get a response from Hydra or another "guru".

I was talking about links to Peggy's skins, or the smutty content on TSR. I would avoid linking to MTS, PMBD, or MATY. There is a thread about getting banned on the Sims 3 BBS on the social forums on MTS, someone got a permanent ban for linking to MTS, because it isn't PG-13, but the other people on the site linking to TSR and Peggy are fine, because they have no adult content at all.  ::)

CatOfWar, that was truly well-worded. Don't feel cowardly for one bit about not linking to MTS or MATY; you were specific enough and surely even the people there are smart enough to copy+paste into a google search bar. It's far more important that the thread stays up longer and more people see it! Speaking of which, I've got screenies, particularly of your posts, as they seemed most poignant and it would be a shame to lose them should your topic be deleted. A toast to you, Cat! *pours rum*

It's really amazing it's still on. That's pretty neat, guys :) Enlighten some BBS sheep FTW.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hydra temp or permabanned someone for linking to Peggy's nekkid skin.  She lists Peggy as an approved site, she says it's PG13, but I'm sure there's one standard for Hydra and a whole different standard for eebil pirates.  I would definitely link to it if Hydra claims it's not true though.

I would not be surprised if they delete a thread that links to Peggy's skin, or any of the smutty stuff on TSR, and ban the person who linked it. But, as long as we could get screen caps of a thread doing that before its gone, we have proof that there is bad content on those sites that EA doesn't want linked to, but they still will link to the sites because they are fine and have no adult content.

dusdeedawn Thanks for taking screenies.  I've been taking them too, but I'm falling asleep here.  If it's not too late where you are, and if there are more replies, and you happen to screen cap them, that would be great.

edit:
rum nate oooh, brilliant!
edit2:
I would wait on that though, or do it in a different thread, or only do it if Hydra demands it, so today's thread stays up for a while, folks see it.  I think I'm babbling more than usual, as nethack might say, Valkyrie needs sleep badly.

Btw can't you put a pic? Peggy's ugly skin with its genital would be a sure bomb.

You can post pics in a thread there, but I think we should move linking to smutty content and posting pics to a different thread on there, that way it doesn't put CatofWar's thread in danger of getting deleted because of that smutty content.

Could, but want that thread to stay up for a while if possible, so people see EA's hypocrisy.  Pussy bomb could be its own thread. ;)  For myself, I would rather do a link with a warning (18+ only), instead of a pic bomb, because there are kids there.

Thats a good idea, that way we don't look like the bad guys by exposing that skin to kids, though that pic would upset a parent who saw it, especially if their kid was the one viewing it and the parent walked in. That would cause people to get mad about EA allowing linking to a site with content like that. But just putting the link and the 18+ warning is probably better in the long run.

blargle blargle Zzzzzz *drool*
*Cat stumbles off in a vaguely bedlike direction*

We shall see what the morrow brings.  My bet is on nuked thread, but I hope to be wrong.

Mostly it was because at the time they were the only game in town - and actually some of the non-pigs voted to keep me, its just there were enough votes to not keep me [and I didn't know about this because it was done behind my back] I wasn't at all upset to go though.  I can go without a gaming fix for a little while. :D

What was funny is they told my SO at the time he could stay and he told them were they could shove it.

When I go into buy games at EB the young me are oh, so polite.  I think they believe I'm buying games for my (non-existent) grand children.  It confuses the hell out of them if I ask something like, "Is there any word about a new TES game?"*  Their expressions are priceless.


*Yes, I know the latest scuttlebutt.

The thread at the Sims3 forum still up.  Hydra asleep on the job?  I'm very happily surprised by all the positive comments, especially the ones from parents.  Where are all the 12s screaming at us for daring to criticize EA?  Did they stay at the old BBS?

We can only hope, Cat. I'm finding that parents do give more of a shit about what their kids see on the internet and I'm liking it.

As for paper gaming and LARP-ing, both my husband and I enjoy it and used to do it quite a bit before we had our young one. Now and then, our old GM comes over to run a game and out come the dice bags, the character notebooks and all of the other game equipment. Right now, I'm lusting over a massive d20 over on ThinkGeek.com. (They have more than gaming stuff over there, btw.) :D

Let's report Hydra's post! :D

Hydra asks us to report inappropriate posts, and write this rule (rule thread (http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/197.page))
"Do not link to, request, or discuss content that may raise the game rating to an "M". This includes linking to teen pregnancy hacks, nude hacks, etc. "

So I helpfully quote that rule in my report of Hydra's post (http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/jforum.page) because it links to Peggy (nekkid skin) and TSR (innumerable smut and R rated ads).  You too can press the Report button!

I would email Ben Bell and the other EA executives- with links, and photographs of TSR's supposedly PG-13 content- , and Peggy and Rose's supposedly PG-13 content including naughty nighties, thongs, and nude skins and point out that none of this is anymore appropriate for a 12 than the teen pregnancy hacks on sites like MTS that have never claimed to be PG-13.

Awesome post Cat, and I am amazed to see it at 4 pages and counting with no deletion. People are even bumping it to keep it in easy view.

*Cheers and rum for you*

Good to hear he met minimal standards of human decency, about that anyway ;).

That's a great post, CatOfWar. I'm amazed it's still up. Hopefully it will reach a lot of people.

Neriana, thank you.  Sadly, it seems the post is only up because EA censors, oops, I mean moderators, don't work on the weekends.

(We discussed proxies a while back, and I've finally figured out how to make them work on my machine with Firefox.  If you're still interested, there's great pictorial instructions for Privoxy here (http://www.privoxy.org/user-manual/index.html), in section 5.  Just make sure Vidalia is running when using Privoxy.  You can also use any of Pescado's servers as a proxy, but the setup is different.  Clear all fields except Socks proxy, put the IP of a Pescado machine there, and use port 10345.  I might have the port number wrong, lost my notes in the move.)

Its really great that your thread has brought to light all this for some people, and there is a good amount of people who all agree with it.

I really wonder if any of the mods will post in that thread tomorrow before locking it, and then deleting it. I doubt they will, be you never know.

SoggyFox, maybe those pigs kicked you out because they were afraid of losing to a girl. XD

My little cousin (once removed) claims that girls can't play wrestling games. When I played on his x-box, I started beating up my opponent with moves that he's never seen before. Then I let his little sister (who was probably a 6 at the time) beat up the guy. My cousin was amazed. The funniest part was that the only thing I did was repeated press the same button over and over again.

If the mods only work on weekdays, maybe we should only bump it up on weekends. It'll keep them from deleting your post and plenty of people will still see it.

Posting a thread Friday night, probably after 6 or 7pm Pacific time would be a great tool for us. That way people will see the thread all weekend, and if its deleted Monday morning, there will be tons of people who know it was there, rather than posting it during working hours, and one person sees it and then poof, its gone.

*waves to Alinda* :D

Yeah, I'm for the weekend plan too.  It's such a bother to have to repost and repost deleted stuff (not that we shouldn't bother).  I've been busily screen capping, and have the text of the 1st post, so when it gets nuked, reposting won't be tons of work.

Nifty idea. :P Ninja threads!

*waves to Cat* x3

There's only one problem. For the weekend plan to work, we need to keep other people from innocently bumping it up on a weekday. Otherwise the gurus will see it. Hopefully they don't read the forums on weekends. :/

Edit: Or I suppose you can just repost every Friday.

Yeah, that's the idea. A new thread every weekend :P

And there are plenty of people who can post it each week if they start banning people who post about it.

For what it's worth, here's the test of the first post and screen caps of the thread up to Muffinator's 08/17/09 04:59 AM comment.

questionsForHydra.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?my0rrdtizal)

------------------------------------------------------------

I can no longer post in that thread.  I can log into the Sims3 site, I can read the forum, but when I try to post a reply in my own thread, I get asked for an email and password.  I provide them, nothing happens, still have the email and password screen.  I don't have any messages about getting temp or permabanned, but I can't post.  What  the hell?

Someone do me a favor and post this for me, please?

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Here's another difference between TSR (and many paysites) and MTS (and many free sites).  MTS allows constructive criticism of a creator's uploads, TSR just deletes it.  Pointing out that DOT's bucketfill is bucketfill, comes with the base game, and is easily reproduced is constructive criticism, not an insult, not flaming, not anything forbidden by TSR's rules.  Constructive criticism *improves* a creator's work.  EA, why not put sites on your list that allow constructive criticism, instead of ones that delete it?

-----------------------------------------------------------

edit:
I can't post in other threads either, get the email/password screen.  Type in password, email, screen doesn't change.  Really odd.  Is there a post limit for new members or something?  I'm trying to NOT assume that this is some sneaky way of banning me without banning me, trying to give EA the benefit of the doubt here.  Hydra has a post about "login issues" they've been having, so maybe that is it, but I had no trouble posting before.  I was logged in fine, I think I had "remember me" checked, but then suddenly I wasn't logged in, couldn't post.  So logged myself in again, but still couldn't post.  Wierd.

Its posted CatofWar.  :)

14 pages, 206 replies, and 4686 views. I really think this will start something. And EA can't delete it and deny it ever existed. Way too many people saw it for them to try that.

I also have your first post CatofWar, the last post(the above message you wanted posted), and a picture from the main BBS to show the thread was there when they delete it, and how many replies and views it had at that point. They are all on my Rankousaurus account, so there is no doubt they have been edited, and I have backups of them all saved on my desktop, just in case.

You should be able to see them here: http://www.rankosaur.us/users/2226/folders/2542

rum nate, many thanks, especially for using rankosaurus

No problem.  :)

I was shocked when I saw it was up to 14 pages. Last time I looked at it, it only had 5 pages. This is really good. :)

Hey, CatOfWar, you use Firefox, right? Have you tried 'ScreenGrab! (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1146)'? Calalily has the coolest screenshots that capture a whole webpage and it was haunting me! I don't know if that's what she uses, but I found that yesterday and added it to Firefox - it's awesome! Anyhow, I mention it because I noticed you have a lot of screenshots. But, yeah, I've got all current pages (14) on it, although that seems rather redundant with you guys on the case. :)

Dee - Thanks, I'll take a look.  A Firefox plugin would be quite handy.  Learning all kinds of new stuff today. :)

-------------------------------------------

edit:
Folks, take a look at alexiankylie's excellent comment on page 15!  Just the sort of thing I hoped for.
*screen capped!*

I was more surprised that no paysite ass-kissers bothered to show up yet to defend their precious paysite "communities" yet.

Dee, keep getting screen shots of the thread. I think the more of us that take them the better, because then EA can't say that the one person who took the screen shots made them up, and its not like all of our screen shots are going to look the same, another plus.

I saw that comment too CatofWar, perfect comment to have been posted, I'm going to get a screen shot of that one too.

I "heart" you CatOfWar for posting at the BBS. It was so cool to see the thread grow, so now the moderators should take notice that the "sheeple" are getting restless. I will be following to see if anyone will respond, if not, then the truth will come out on EA and their minions.  Time to wake up!!

You know I wonder what time the Gurus start work. Its 12:11 here on the east coast, 9:11 on the west coast, and the thread is still there, on its 18th page.

Well, RPGs of the pen and paper sort aren't so much about winning and losing, least not normally.  Before I got booted, I did accidently screw up magic in one of the games - and most of them -were- playing mages.  Apparently, after we left, they hunted down my character and did bad things to her [in their defense, these guys were -evil- mages] and they never did manage to fix magic, to my knowledge.  Since I hadn't wanted to play a thief, and had wanted to play a mage, and had the group all going -no more mages- then allowing a newer person to play one.....

And he's still my SO, its just at the time I only had one :D

Almost 10:10 on the West Coast, and still no guru to post, lock, or delete the thread. I think they are just scared to do so, because too many people have seen it and posted in it (on page 18 now) for them to quietly get rid of it.

And we got what I think is the first person who can't understand why we hate paysites (with the exception of TSR) because they are just asking for money to cover server costs. And asking us if we have problems with sites like MTS because they are a donation site.

Well your post was much better than my plan Cat so I think I'll leave it alone for now.  Although I did post on Dot's bucketfill the RGB combo to get the color.  Wonder how long until I get banned (I've never made a comment on anything there before).

I actually wanted to reply to that post so badly.  Even took the time to "quote" it and responded to each points, only to be reminded and utterly disappointed in the fact that I don't have the required credentials to actually post there.   I'm just that slow today, but I'm saving that text file just for the heck of it. :P

Cat, adding on to what everyone else said, but I seriously applaud you on such spectacular rebuttal to Hydra's logic.  I'm eager to see what happens from this point on... hopefully we won't be let down too badly, though it's obvious that the thread has "potential impending doom" written all over it.   :-\

There is doubt going around that the mods are actually working today. It is now 12:08 on the West cost, and that thread is still there with no mods getting it, locking, or deleting it. Muffinator made a completely off topic thread just to see if the mods are there, they haven't touched it. So either the mods are off today, or they are scared to do anything now, because they can get rid of this with out getting a whole shitload of complaints and stuff. Who knows, they could be talking to some of the higher ups to see how to do damage control on this, because this sure as hell caused a huge amount of damage.

Light Angel - Why not post here what you wanted to post, and someone can repost it at the Sim3 forum for you?  They can say it is from you, following the discussion, but you do not have an account.

It was suggested in the Sims3 thread that I log out and log back in to try to get posting ability back.  I tried that yesterday.  Will try again today, see if it helps.  I am thinking technical glitch rather than sneaky stealth ban.

So, so happy that the thread is going strong and there is such positive response!  Once I can post again, I really need to thank all you fine PMBD folks.  What I wrote is simply what I have learned over time here, at MTS, and by checking out paysites, so big thanks to all of you.

Well the mods are back and the thread is still there.  THey deleted the one about TSR's floodfill though.  Pity.

EDIT:  Deleted at 26 pages long (and I never got to see the last page).  Or did they just move it?

REEDIT:  Has anyone posted this at the Sims 2 BBS since so many people are still playing 2 until the CC gets better for 3?

Shadow reposted it.

Here is the new link: http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/91245.page

My original thread is gone, no surprise, but still disappointing.  Stupid, lame EA.

I wasn't done reading it either, and I didn't have time to take screenies. D: Those mods are idiots. By the way, are able to post again, Cat?

Shadow's reposted thread has been nuked.

Alinda - I could post for a while today, not sure about now, about to check my email, see if I've been banhammered or not...

I have screenies of some excellent replies in the original thread, will post them here for reposting shortly...

According to some folks in the last thread, you can still post if you've been suspended as long as you haven't logged out yet. 

I saw that, EA even fails at bans. Sad, good for us, but sad.  :D

And its already reposted again too.

Well, I can still post, and I don't have any message from mods on their site, nor in my email.
Screenies of excellent replies coming shortly...

I didn't get any warnings, only an email letting me know of a friend confirmation.  ;) :D

Since I can't post in the thread, can someone make a mention of the fact that no other game community on the web has paysites like sims has.  I was just thinking about discussions we've had about how so many Sims players don't play other games and wouldn't know that.  Neverwinter Nights and The Movies might be good examples to point to in terms of being heavily modded games.  My other passing thought was that this is a community that has been at war with itself for years and EA is entirely to blame for their lack of clarity and enforcement.

I can't get into the new thread, did they delete that, too?
And I only got screenshots up to page 15 - had to sleep, and my hours are not conducive to the rest of the states'. :-\

Well, crap, I bet they didn't even read anything... but at least we all know there were plenty of people who did.  ;D


Okay then.  I may have some things wrong, and it may not mean much now that the original thread is gone... but if anyone posts it there in any of the new threads, feel free to add to, correct facts, and use however you like.  Just as long as people get it through their heads that the bandwidth argument has long since become an invalid factor for paysite's methods, and not all content creator are in it for the "joy of giving to others". 

---

A little clarification on some things Schweighsr brought up...


A few answers that I can come up with off the top of my head:  They don't absolutely have to set up a site that costs that much, if nothing at all.  There are plenty of other alternatives rather than having to resort to setting up a site and putting items as "pay only" for the sake of bandwidth or server costs.  For instance, they could always upload to sites such as MTS and other well known and reliable sites.  Not only that, but if they don't want to go down the route of relying on another site to host their files,  (or just want to stand out on their own) there are a lot of willing people within the free community who will gladly direct one to sources on how to save themselves from getting wrung in by unreliable hosting companies and paying more for less, or like even the WNF, may possibly have the resources themselves to help host their site.  And all while saving money that could be used for other ventures besides an expensive host.

To add on, to save even more money they could even upload their content to file-sharing sources such as Mediafire, Box.net, 4shared, and other sites of the like.  Even having a LJ page dedicated to Sims downloads has become a popular alternative to paying for web hosting.

In short, there's just no excuse these days to set up a pay site if you already have the resources and people there in front of you to help you out of resorting to that option.   


Not only that, but you do know their FA's get paid a certain amount of money also, right?  There's a certain uploads and times downloaded quota they have to fill in order to get that money though, so you end up see a lot of stuff like what DOT decided to do with the oh-so-fabulous not-so pattern-like "pattern". 


As it's been said many times, there's a big difference in the way MTS and what sites with "donation" content do.  MTS, for one, knows when to tell people they have enough money to settle the costs they need to cover whenever theirs a donation drive of sorts.  Not only that, it's free choice to donate without having the "worm on the hook" to lure you in to doing so.  All the content is still available to you whether you do so or not... no strings attached. 

"Donation"/Pay sites (i.e. Peggyzone, Rosesims, TSR, and others like them) are the opposite.  They tempt people to buy their shinies... and once said content is received and people start to realize it wasn't what they expected, there's no way they could get their money back.  Hence the back-lash and sharing of said content... when people feel ripped off, don't get any sort of satisfactory help for their troubles, and eventually get tired of dealing with the same old crap each time, you end up with sites like PMBD popping up.   :-)  Sites like that actually save people from having to go through the same ordeals they did in the earlier days of the community.

Is it right?  It really depends on which side you're looking from, but from the way I see it, most people would not want to deal with shelling money for stuff when they could get so much better from free sources... and not talking about the "stolen" stuff, either.   :wink:


*points to the response two quotes above* You're right in a way... many don't, but there are some who do, and only for the sake of getting more money in their pocket.  If that wasn't the case, they could've left the position they were in at any time the chose and decided to find a better route for sharing their "goodwill".  Content created for the sake of expecting something more than "thanks" in return just isn't worth as much in my opinion.  A lot of the best content you can get doesn't even require a cent spent on it.   8)

Here are some replies from the original thread, I didn't get all the great ones, but here's what I did get.
You can have all 4 in a zip file here (http://www.mediafire.com/?ll22zizyzkq).


an excellent reply from a parent

(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab133/Cat_Of_War/Hydra_replies1.jpg?t=1250542507)


TSR censors criticism, EA censors criticism, birds of a feather?

(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab133/Cat_Of_War/Hydra_replies2.png?t=1250542510)


people are disgruntled
- and -
no CC without the free community's tools and tutorials

(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab133/Cat_Of_War/Hydra_replies3.jpg?t=1250542513)


more irate customers

(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab133/Cat_Of_War/Hydra_replies4.jpg?t=1250542514)

You should post a link to the zip in the thread.

Light Angel, your reply has been posted, hope I didn't mess up the quotes much.

I am so glad there is such a huge following on this, and people willing to get banned and repost and repost and repost some more to get this across to everyone they can. This is going to be a very good week for EA and the BBS, won't it.  ;D

I've been twittering the new links (methinks we need a hastag; #simsrevolt or some crap) as they come up and have reposted on a couple of TV sites that have off topic sections where I know some sims peeps are.  It's easier with the posting in forums since I can explain how they keep getting deleted and what section of the site to look for what thread title.  I may borrow that zip for a blog post if I have the time this week.

millahna - yay, you go!

FOR REPOSTING

another good comment from one of the reposted threads, I think

click for larger image
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab133/Cat_Of_War/Hydra_replies5small.jpg) (http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab133/Cat_Of_War/Hydra_replies5.jpg?t=1250544659)

here's another, about EA continual hamfisted censorship

click for larger image
(http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab133/Cat_Of_War/Hydra_replies6small.jpg) (http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab133/Cat_Of_War/Hydra_replies6.jpg)

Viva la Revolution.

Is there still a thread up there?

Well for lack of a better idea I went with #simsrevolt on twitter.  I'm @thelabrat there if anyone wants to find me and retweet.  I don't think I have many sims players in my friends list so I need a little help getting the topic to trend a little better.  If any of you are on twitter, get posting.

That's cool.  Thanks, Cat!   ;)

I'm trying my best to keep up with all the threads there, so yeah, SoggyFox, the one dedicated to Cat's post is still there (http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/91266.page) for the time being and 12 make that 14 pages strong and counting.      

Is this getting talked about on any of the other major sims forums?  I only really download from most places so I haven't started checking for threads. 

I didn't see anything on MTS or GOS, and TSR didn't have anything either, but I doubt they would. I haven't checked MATY or Snooty Sims. Peggy doesn't have anything either. Thats all I know.

ETA: Don't link to google on the BBS, cause that could cause someone to find MTS, and you will be banned for that. Damn, EA is just getting lower and lower with this.

Here are the relevant quotes from the EA Sims3 EULA.
It very explicitly says filesharing is permitted, selling is forbidden.

(bold added by me)

(bold added by me)

The thread is now 19 pages, this is awesome! Even if the talk derails a lot - last page mention they want the return of Maxis - It sure is heart warming to see so many people talking about that. I'm proud of you guys *shares rum*

About the argument 'No one makes money from selling CC, they just pay their hosting" (the good old shitty argument), hell Delphy once estimated how much money T$R makes every year, based on Thoma$$'s rare babblings. It's more than a million dollars. Every fucking year. Yes, Cartman would be dead jealous.

I remember seeing that math he did. And it came its possible they have made about $10,000,000 since they went pay, if not more. And that does not include money made from about September 2008 to now.

Added a link to the thread (along with instructions for how to find it when it gets deleted) over in Gamespot's Sims 3 forums.  Not sure how much attention it will get as I'm not very active in teh forums there but hey why not.  I haven't been active in many of my old game communities in a long time so I'm drawing a blank on other places to cross post.  My Facebook and Myspace status both have a link to the page with the person getting banned for linking to google.  I don't know a lot of sims players but I do know a lot of game nerds.  They'll be dutifully appalled.  

I really hope some game or tech magazine/website picks this up.  Given how much trouble EA has gotten into over DRM, buggy games, and brass knuckles recently, it really wouldn't be a bad story for them to cover.

I'm guessing they haven't deleted the last thread so that everyone will "get it out of their system."  So hopefully it doesn't die down over the next couple of days.  I'm going to test out an EA/Sims key generator for site registration so that we'll know if it works for anyone who gets permabanned.  

The thread is really off-topic now and seems to be infested with middle schoolers.  They were all talking about starting school soon and arguing about test scores.  I think it will be only a matter of time until the thread gets deleted for being off-topic.

Not only that, the got off track discussing what kind of signature picture they should come up with... which I find funny since earlier they were backbiting some other user for posting random spam in the thread.  I believe that the next time the thread gets deleted and someone decides to repost it, remind people not to go off on tangents that has absolutely nothing to do with the situation at hand.  (Then again, it's the friggin' BBS for crying out loud... that's like asking a rock to grow wings and fly.)  That stuff could've easily been dealt with in another thread or something. 

Staying on track would be really great, but I'm happy just with keeping the thread alive, even if somewhat derailed.  So long as it stays active and near the front of the forum, more people see it.

---------------------------------------------------------

edit:

Needs Replying To

Staple_Salad on page 25 is mistaken about a few things, we should reply.


Someone explain the EULA to this person, please.

----------------------------------------

edit2:

Could Also Use a Reply


No, this is not just talk in a forum.  Paying customers deserve good service and honesty from the business they support with their money.  If the business claims to have certain rules, those rules should be enforced and equally applied to everyone.  That's what this is about.  We do have power, we can boycott EA.  I do so by NOT buying their products.  I get them used instead, so EA gets no money from me.

(That's what I'll post in a bit.)

More from this confused person:


Incorrect.  They sell a virtual product, a game, but they are a real business and their customers pay them real money.  The EULA is a real legal document.  They need to abide by the same rules that apply to other businesses when it comes to customer service, and legal issues such as the EULA.

(will post that too)

Gah, he just goes on in this vein some more.


Forums have rules.  EA has the power to flaunt their own rules, to apply them or ignore them, yes, but they do not have the *right*.  While discussion in the forum may not effect immediate change, it certainly raises awareness, it may change minds.  Some people may choose to boycott EA, may choose to buy EA games used.  And that is real change.

(must plow through rest of pages, and then post...)


Paysites violate the EA EULA for Sims2 and Sims3, so they have broken a legal agreement with EA.
 A SimGuru forbidding filesharing goes against EAs own EULA for Sims3.
However, a court case is not the only way to bring about change.
You can also boycott.  I do.  I buy EA games *used*, not from EA, EA does not get my money.

(I'm glad pikajohn says he agrees with the post, but the defeatism is counterproductive.  Is there more of this?)

Pikajohn does not impress me with intelligence, but I was polite.  Because what I said was true - -we- have the power, because ultimately, we don't have to spend our money, which means we don't have to give it to -them-

I'm not a contract lawyer. However, I think that if EA doesn't even attempt to enforce its EULA, then the EULA is null and void in its entirety. EA's agents are running about explicitly helping entities which break the EULA. Therefore the contract is completely and entirely worthless. Go ahead and "pirate" the game. Reverse engineer it too. That EULA you click on agreeing not to do these things has been voided by EA.

TSR's bottom line is more important to EA's moderators than EA's is. I find that rather interesting. I wonder what EA's lawyers would think.

Soggy, I'm glad you replied to pikajohn.  Others have as well, and I find that heartening.  Now to reply to this Staple Salad person about piracy...

I wonder about this all the time!  EA yells bloody murder if they think they even smell someone pirating store crap or the game itself.  Why are they so selective in what bits and pieces of their legal contracts they enforce?  I know folks have said they fear alienating paysites and their sheeple, but why in hell would they?  It's free sites that drive CC creation and make it possible.  If paysites all went poof, the sheeple would eventually discover free sites and keep playing and buying, so what is the big deal about pissing off Thoma$ and Peggy?

My theory is, and has been for a long time, that EA's right hand doesn't know what its left hand is doing. Imo, the people who interact in any way with the community are in TSR's pocket. Everything consumers try to say to EA gets filtered through them. EA doesn't give a crap so long as the game keeps selling. The only way to get them to wake up is to boycott their games. Just download Sims 3 products for free if you want them. EA's already voided the contract through its actions, you can't be held to it.

Replied to Staple Salad, who is confused about piracy.  Saved that reply, and the one to pikajohn, in text files, since I'm sure the thread will be stomped and I'll want to recycle that text in the future.

Not that you're completely wrong but I just want to point out that contracts and licenses are very different beasts. Agreeing to a EULA isn't the same as signing a binding contract. If it was a contract EA could SUE you if they discovered you were using a crack or something and they obviously can't.

A license is more like a right to use something on particular terms.

Particularly, where I agree with you, the TS3 EULA assigns all IP rights to EA at part 2(A). EVERYTHING inside the game belongs to them, presumably including file formats and content adapted to work in the game. Which is why it continues to boggle me that they would support people that openly breach these terms. It's like a movie studio supporting pirate DVD makers. Utterly nonsensical.

*yawn*   good night, folks

Tomorrow, another day, another repost.  And Immortelle, I will take your sage advice about diet restriction of certain kinds of posters to heart.  One or two have popped up. ;)

edit: Let's see if there's any interest in this at MTS (http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=364778&posted=1#post2799395)  I don't think there's a thread there yet?  Hopefully I'm not just being sleep addled.

Well the thread on the BBS is still up, now on page 41 with 14,344 views.

And someone posted a thread thanking Hydra for the link to Peggy's site, because he found a "great" piece of CC there. The thread has a direct link to Peggy's naked skin.

Link to thread: http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/91606.page

That thread is gone. But the 41 paged one is still up.

Heh.  Titanslayer's thread was deleted pretty fast.  Way to make a point though.

I still think that posting links to really egregiously smutty content at TSR and Peggy would be better, pointing out that this wonderful item is approved by EA as innocently as you can.  That way somebody is going to complain and maybe they'll get a clue.

I no longer have access to my TSR account, and I don't have Sims 3 so I can't do it myself.

I'd help - my account is still active- but i have issues viewing images on TSR's site on IE, FF and Safari so I would not really be able to tell what is smutty and slutty and what isn't.

I really think the Brittany Spears in the lion tamer's outfit getting herself off with the baton would be a great one to start with.  Of course that was Sims 2 content....

Just reposted about ten or so replies from previous versions of the thread.  EA deletes, we repost.  Saved the u.r.l and i.m.g code to a text file, less work for me next time they delete.

What is with these people who say don't complain, it's not important, not worth it, just don't use it?  Even if they disagree, which is their right, that EA is a business and as customers, we can complain about lousy products and service, why tell us this?  Are they arguing just to argue?  It really puzzles me.  It's not like anyone forces them to read anti-EA threads or holds a gun to their head and demands they join the revolution, you know?

I think they're in fact scared of the pay creators to be pissed off and take his toys with him/her.

What do they have that is so great though? In all seriousness I have you to see anything for TS3 that was pay and thought 'Oh I really want that'. A couple of the Rose hairs look nice in screenshots but I already know they are going to be fucked up in the game so not even going to go there.

Hell, I haven't even been downloading stuff from the booty when it's free.

Sigh... I miss maxis. It was great til EA came along to ruin things

It used to be a gem. TS1 was truly the best Sims game, in my opinion - not even all of the content in the world for TS2 could compare because at its time TS1 was revolutionary for simulations.

Not to get off track but the same happened to Enix when they merged with Square-soft. I was disappointed with the lack of dragon quest/warrior games just shows what happens when perfectly fine game designers get bought out by the bigger people

Just read this article on the bbc website http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8201332.stm

Not hugely relevent but the tagline for the picture made me "Ha!"

It looks like the thread is messed up again. I posted and the thread was back at the first page but my post isn' shown. ::)

Edit: It's shown now - one hour and two other posts later!

I agree. All they released since their merging is utter bleh.

I beg to disagree on that, I am loving the Final Fantasy games they are coming out with. My husband is a console gamer and he plays them a great deal. The progression made in story arcs and such for the series is awesome, not to mention the attack sequences are a lot of fun for me to watch.

My sentiments exactly. I love every last Final Fantasy I have ever played, and I am waiting with baited breath for Final Fantasy XIV.

I think the problem is, they kept up with the Square franchises well, but not the old enix ones.

That could well be, Soggy, I'm not sure if we even have any Enix games from before the merger.

I've played Final Fantasy since the beginning, and I really dislike FF12. Not as much as I disliked FF9, because the gameplay isn't as bad (though it's not good either), but I don't give a chocobo's fart about any of the characters, including the one hot guy. The music is kinda bleh too. There's just no heart. I can't finish it. I loved Dragon Quest 8 though, that's from an Enix series, and I'm pretty sure that was after the merger. Plus they're re-releasing almost all the old DQs I never got to play, so I'm happy with that.

In any case I have my Atlus games now. *huggles Personas*

Atlus is and always has been my favorite console enterprise *hugs all her personas plus all their strategy and their RPGs games* I always liked their out-of-the-box games.

Btw I still have Devil Survivor for the DS to try :P

Don't get me wrong I love final fantasy, but the enix games they had got pretty much put even further back than even the back burner...

We were talking about females gamers back at the start of this thread, and this has to do with gamers, so I guess it should be ok to post this here.  :)

There is a new study out that says the average gamer is 35, overweight, and more likely to be depressed. Men gamers tend to be more overweight and use the internet more than non male gamers, and female gamers tend to be more depressed and have lower general heath the study found.

Full article: http://videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/study-games-are-depressing-or-are-they-/1346074

Speaking for myself, I'm drawn to games because of my reaction to real life; I find everything about it perfectly horrid.  I'm with the researchers who think the depression came first.  But I'd bet there's a mix of both.

Oh whatever. Considering "overweight" means "one pound over the ridiculous BMI index which wasn't meant to measure what people are using it to measure when it was first invented anyway", I never believe anything that claims some portion of the population is overweight. Also, I play games because THEY ARE FUN. Watching TV is NOT FUN. Going out and getting smashed is REALLY NOT FUN.

Studies which re-confirm peoples' prejudices are also fun, because they are usually so completely ridiculous. I predict that in a year there will be a study which contradicts this one, but it won't get any play at all. Instead people will keep referring to this one. Junk.

Um, and since when does "lower extraversion" mean "depressed"? Since when is not being outgoing a bad thing, rather than a neutral or even possibly a good thing, showing higher levels of intelligence, self-knowledge and choosiness about relationships? Oh right, since this study was done in America and not in Japan. JUNK.

Warning, rant ahead!

Gee, maybe we aren't going out because we don't have the damn money to take in a movie and dinner? Gosh, maybe we aren't going out to the bars to socialize because we have to save the bucks to buy important things like food and toilet paper? (If you get food, you're gonna need to toilet paper, trust me on this one kids.) The economy has a great deal of influence on how we interact with those outside of our homes or if we even do go outside of our homes for entertainment.

I'd rather wait and shell out the bucks for a DVD than go to the theater to see it, mainly because the popcorn is always fresh here, the sodas aren't watered down with too much damn ice and I don't have to put up with screaming little brats who don't wanna watch the film and run up and down the aisles instead while their parents are engrossed in the on-screen chases.

I'd much prefer a video game to an arcade, where you can find the same kinds of kids chasing all over the bloody place because their parents dropped them off for a few hours while they got some quiet time. At home, I can sit on a comfy couch and not have to worry about a time limit on my coinage or have to hand the game player quarter after quarter to keep the stupid game going, plus the fact that games at home on a console can be saved, novel concept isn't it?

As for being depressed? Well, fuck yeah, who isn't? Money doesn't buy half of what it once did and prices are up at least by a multiple of two so that is something to kind of feel off-kilter about, don't you think so? People are being put out of work, or their hours at work are getting slashed so the bosses can afford their own pay raises and bonuses, all while the people that work their asses off to make the companies money are getting screwed out of everything they ever earned. I sure the hell don't feel good about that kind of shit going on and I don't know anyone that does, unless they're one of the fat cat bastards that works at these multi-million grossing companies that laugh in our faces and tell us to suck it when their products don't rate the bat guano of the month award because it's half-baked and ill-thought out. No wonder many customers hate EA Games...

Anyways, where do they get their data? Do they send out surveys to guys that live in their mom's basement? Do they send them to the lady that can't afford a new diamond collar for her spoiled poodle? Who the hell are they asking this shit? And really, with all of the problems that go on in every day life, who in the fuck cares? I think a lot of gamers play games to have fun, relax and forget about the douche bags they have to deal with outside their front door. So meh to studies that just were done to justify some asshat's skewed point of view.

/end rant

I remember a study from a while ago that said that intelligent people were more likely to be depressed. From my own experience, intelligent people are also more likely to be gamers. Intelligent people are also more likely to see what's wrong with the world -- and then try to change it.

And yeah, I'd be very interested to see how they got their data. What groups did they compare, exactly? Did they survey people playing an MMO then go and survey people on the beach? Or did they compare gamers to people with equally sedentary habits, like watching TV or reading? Did they ask what kind of games the people in question play? Considering they lump in Bejeweled with other games I sincerely doubt it. How large was their sample size? How many males and females did it have? Was it just some survey on a website that people could do?

This study has all the hallmarks of very bad science to me, from what I can tell from the article. Hell, they seem to assume that being introverted makes people less happy than being extroverted, which is extremely ignorant and stupid, showing a marked lack of cultural and psychological insight, not that that stops quite a few people with PhDs from doing it anyway.

Well the economy thing isn't just effecting going out though. I read a news report the other day that said video game sales are down and kind of in a slump.

Of course there were two large companies that were exceptions to this and were doing quite well in spite of the economy.

You can guess which one one of them was. :P

The authors of that study thing did disclaim their results and methods (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/08/gamers-are-fat-and-depressed-not-so-fast-my-friend.ars), but that does not make for a nice morally panicking headline.  They used years old data from like an online survey or something.

In other news, some game companies look out for their customers and will open a can of whupass (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/08/eve-online-unleashes-unholy-rage-on-in-game-currency-traders.ars) upon those that would go against their EULA/TOS and financially prey on that game's community.

It's an online game, but some familiar bits.  Of note:  rampant fraud and immediate relief upon the servers once the grubbers were dumped.

If figures. Online surveys mean jack-shit nothing. I don't bother to ever fill them out- I'd rather play a game or create something for the Sims then click little boxes answering questions.
So, that said, I wonder how many of the people who filled out said survey were actually gamers? Probably next to none. The reason I say that is that most of the people I know who don't play games tend to think that those of us who do are fat, lazy and stupid. Yeah, sure- alright. I'm a bit overweight, but games had nothing to do with that. Having 5 kids had alot to do with that. (And I haven't gained a pound since the last one was born.)  Lazy? Step into my house- 6 people live here, 5 of them are males- my house is clean, laundry is done, meals are cooked, etc., etc., courtesy of me. And before I lost my job? I worked 10-12 hours a day and still kept up the house. Stupid? Nah. Stupid people don't usually take Honors (advanced, college level) classes in school or have IQ's that are well over 130.

Especially since depression is kind of hard to self-diagnose.  I've known people who were depressed for decades who just thought that was what life was.  And people who had an off day twice in six months and wanted Prozac.

Isn't this sort of intuitively obvious? Stupid people aren't smart enough to see how fucked up everything is. When you're smart enough that you can SEE how fucked up everything is and realize there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, you pretty much have no real choice except to descend into depression or nihilism.

Or you can decide to point and laugh. That's always fun too.

That study population makes the study completely, totally and utterly useless. The correlations which supposedly merit further study are meaningless. I love how they didn't make any distinction among games played or hours played, I adore how everyone was from a particular area of Washington state (gamers more likely to have SADD! and wear fleece!), and I am totally loving that they only used people who signed up to take internet surveys in the first place!

By the way, when I worked in a game store, I noticed that gamers, um, looked like everyone else, except a little better. The girls had a tendency to not plaster themselves with makeup or dye their hair blond as much as other populations of women do down here. (Seriously, most women down here scare me.) Also BMI reports Brad Pitt as overweight for the same reason it reports me as on the high end of "acceptable": high muscle mass. Maybe the people who reported for that study included a bunch of weightlifters. Or hey, maybe gamers are actually stronger than average. I know the people I worked with were quite strong and fit, and my boyfriend, whom I met online in a gaming community, is incredibly strong.

Seriously, what a load of crapola. That's like if I used a population of about 500 people, all at least age 35, in the Boston area in 1760 to generalize about the lives of every Christian in North America at that time. My professors would burst a lung laughing. The fact that anyone is so abysmally stupid as to actually publish a study like that -- well, what can I do but point and laugh.

P&L is essentially the end-product of existential nihilism, yes.

Well, gamers don't tend to leave the house as much and therefore don't try to make themselves look "better". And frankly, makeup and hair-dye are hideous things.

Yes, having a beefy arm tends to count against you in BMI because all they care about is your height vs. your weight. You will actually become MORE overweight than a fat person if you have a beefy arm because muscle is heavier than fat.

Now that, I'm a bit skeptical of. The ones you *SAW* are stronger and fitter, perhaps because they actually occasionally move. Being that computers are rather heavy, you therefore need to become stronger to actually move about with your computer.

So, what they are saying is female gamers tend towards needing less of the various skin care items that other women need, because we don't clog our pores?  Yup - oh, and we tend to look younger because we don't spend hours getting tans and torturing our skin.

And I've had depression issues as long as I can remember, from about 5-6 on.  Yeah, its all the fault of video games, which wouldn't exist for another 12 years.  They are so wise.

Yes, that was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. :P

Oh, but SoggyFox, it's not that games cause your depression, it's that you're self-medicating! When I was a lonely kid, being made fun of for getting As and not wearing makeup at age 9, I used to read all the time, more than I do now even. I'd read during breaks, I'd read on the walk home, I'd read before bed. When I wasn't reading, I was imagining new worlds and people to fill them. Obviously all of this was sad, because I was self-medicating. My parents should have taken me to counseling and gotten me official approved drugs so that I could be just like everyone else, rather than doing this oh so counterproductive stuff like imagining and thinking. And now, why, since I like playing games, and reading, and writing, I'm still self-medicating!

Exercise to feel better? You're avoiding your problems! Watch TV? Evading the real world! Do carpentry? Obviously an attempt to impose order on disorder, you have serious problems! Feel kinda down until you have sex with your S.O.? ZOMG dependent!! Don't have an S.O., but do have mechanical aids, and cheer yourself up that way? Pervert! Anything you do to cheer yourself up, any kind of entertainment or temporary escape from "reality" (whatever that is), is really just a poor substitute for what you "really" need! This is the kind of mentality that discredits all of psychiatry. The people the most angry about that idiotic report shouldn't be gamers, but mental health professionals. Mental health professionals who are gamers are probably climbing the walls.

Obviously this topic makes me even more soap-boxy than usual.

Oh, I agree - though my mom took me to a counsellor as a kid - was put in with a group of girls my own age - and the counsellor soon realized that my problems did not belong in that - that my problems were parental.  So, into counselling with my mom - and that didn't work.  Apparently, I just avoided the generation of throwing pills at mental and emotional problems.

And I should be on meds for being manic-depressive - but -  they make me into a zombie and I don't want to lose my happy swings just to not have crying jags.

So yup, self-medicating, and if I'm a dependent pervert, well....most folks who know me, know that's half right ;)

Hm. Interesting study. Allow me to offer my retort:

http://www.virtua.org/page.cfm?id=pressroom_showrelease&pressID=1338

http://www.mercybehavioral.org/poc/view_doc.php?type=news&id=116042&cn=109

http://www.disaboom.com/Living/militarylife/video-game-helps-disabled-veterans-conquer-ptsd.aspx

Having a childhood mired in abuse and neglect, and being totally powerless in my family system because nobody cared enough to ask how I felt about anything ever is what made me fat and depressed. And if creating a fantasy world filled with things I love and where I have total godlike control offers a healing polar extreme experience to my shit-ass childhood, then I'll take the "self-medication". It's either that or hard drugs and booze.

And the the rebuttal of the CDC study pretty much states my initial reaction-it doesn't seem confounding variables were accounted for, and the population studied seemed largely self-selected (i.e.-why would fit, happy people who enjoy video games volunteer for a study? They're too busy being fit, happy gamers. The depressed ones are going to volunteer because they're the ones who are more likely to seek self-inquiry. If there's one way to make validity questionable, it's have a self-selected sample). Lastly, I'd like to read the actual peer-reviewed study WITH the data, so I can see if they're just reporting numbers that support a predetermined hypothesis, of if they created hypothesis based on their findings (the latter is preferred to account for experimenter bias).

Just my .02... Oh, and always be skeptical of government/corporation sponsored studies. Self-interest and sociopolitical agendas too often seeps into those because of where the grant money comes from (that accounts for my rebuttal too). University funded studies overseen by an Institutional Review Board tend to show less bias... tend, not always.

Ditto.  Everything they have put me on to "regulate the extremes of my emotions" has left me flatlined emotionally.  No sad, but no happy either.  My feelings toward my loved ones were even dulled, which is a VERY BAD THING when you're a mother of two.  The cure was worse than the disease.  So if every once in a while mommy withdraws into games or books, I still take care of and love them during that time.  Having me a little distracted and grumpy sometimes has been way better than the drug induced constant daze that Zoloft and Prozac put me into.  I'm not saying the meds are bad for everyone, at all times, but I do think that they are overprescribed, and that a little escapism isn't a bad way to deal with things if you can still function.

Also, medications not only distanced me and caused my love ones pain, but there is also this - it dulls my creativity [and look at the history of novelists and artists] and that hurt worst of all.

Same here. I'm an artist by profession and the meds do eat away at my creativity. Sometimes I need to be a little dpressed. It gives me an edge that I don't seem to have when I'm on meds. I am supposed to take them everyday, but often I don't and it takes 2 weeks to get through 1 weeks worth of meds.
Yeah, they keep me from banging my head on the wall, but they also keep me from having any intense emotion at all. And you gotta have some intensity to be even a half decent artist.

Interesting.  I've been on anti-depressants for years and never had any of those issues.  Without them I was creatively non-functional, even if I was having brilliant ideas it wasn't worth acting on them.  As for interacting with other people, same deal. I just couldn't be bothered when I wasn't on meds.

Different body chemistry, different reactions, I guess.

I saw Patton Oswalt talking about this very thing in his comedy special last night. He said he doesn't like taking his anti-depression meds because he feels like he needs his depression sometimes. It calls to him and says "please take me out somewhere and play with me, please. Don't keep me cooped up in here all the time. I need fresh air and sunlight too."
He also self-medicates with scotch, the internet, and pot.
Aside from the scotch (must have rum instead), I'm right there with him.

As a child of a maniac depressive, it's disheartening to read that medicine has not worked for you.  Children need stability and by the very nature of what bipolar is, you can't be stable in the same way that others can.  It's a roller coaster and everyone that surrounds you is on it too.  

Now I'm not saying that medication is the right/only answer, but it sure can help if you are willing to put in the time it takes to find a combination of medicines that work for you.  That process alone can be difficult and requires perseverance, especially if you are like my mother and have a higher tolerance to medicine than the average person.  It's also ongoing because our bodies change and what used to work may no longer work.  

I thank God for medicine because without it my mother would be in the mental ward right now and she'd be stuck there the rest of her life.  So in that sense, I wouldn't have a mother at all.  I know it feels that way already when she is having an episode.

So I hope in future if you feel like the highs are too high and the lows are too low that you would be willing to consider medicine again to help with that.  They're making amazing strides in science and medicine all the time.  They may have something now or the near future that will be more effective with your chemical makeup.  :)  

Many, many people need medication for their psychological problems the way someone with diabetes needs insulin. I'm not sure it's that medicine is overprescribed as much as that therapy is WAY underprescribed.

I know people who would be dead right now if not for Prozac or Zoloft or whatever. Without therapy, but with just the pills, they'd still be sort of struggling hazily through life. The pills are a patch, therapy (cognitive is what works) teaches you to reshape and rethink yourself and your life in a way that allows you to stop fucking over yourself and the people around you. People with mental health problems often can't think about the problems they cause for others, but they can be severe. Living with someone who has an untreated mental illness is not fun. When that person is your parent, it can be a fucking nightmare. When that parent chooses to self-medicate with alcohol or drugs, guess what, they've just given you your very own set of issues on a nice little checklist, and you get to deal with those issues for the rest of your life. I know because I've finally gotten to the point where I'm mad as hell about it, rather than making excuses for the person who put me through it.

I've also been through depression. I didn't think I could do anything right, and I was completely correct, because depression was taking everything away from me. I chose not to take medication because I was never in an emergency situation, but therapy worked. It does work. I understand the pull of depression, it's a safety blanket, a comfortable, if miserable, place that protects you from life. But it's a false savior.

I definitely agree that therapy is great, but only if you are in a place where you are ready to confront what is really going on and want to try to change it.  My mother wasn't and so she either got therapists that would baby her and tell her, "Oh, you had a very hard life," and nothing got done or she got therapists that were aggressive and would try to get her to see things differently and so she would stop going.

I think finding the right therapist is just as important as finding the right meds. Different people respond differently to both these things. I went through years of trying to find the right meds that work for me, and the right dosage too. I spent just as much time trying to find the right therapist. Someone who listens and responds without judging me or making me feel like a mental defect. Not someone who sits there while I talk and only asks "how does that make you feel?", then charges me $150.

I'd say it's more important.  The wrong therapist is how you end up on meds when you shouldn't be, or on too many, or on not enough, or the wrong combination or whatever.  I don't mean to say that there isn't inherently some trial and error for many (most?) on the medication specifically but without the right therapy you end up with all kinds of extra problems.  I mean what if hypothetical you has the deadened emotional reaction and quits taking them but really should be on them?  Or what if the deadened reaction is more because the meds really were not to solution for that particular patient and now they're whacking out their brain chemistry even more (hypothetically again, I have no idea if there's any science to back that idea up).

It's not like they test our already existent chemicals before they prescribe this stuff.  Getting the right therapist is critical.  Sigh.  I miss medical coverage.

Have to agree about the importance of therapy (in combination with meds, when necessary).  Therapy is what finally got me to see that my self-defeating thoughts were irrational and harmful.  I still have a long way to go there.  It's not enough to learn better ways of thinking and seeing the world, those thoughts have to be translated into action, and that's what's hard for me right now.  I need therapists who will push me to change for the better, but without triggering my stupid neuroses.  Medicine is what made my life much more bearable.  I need to find the will and courage to change.  I used to have horrid anxiety attacks with heart palpitations.  There is a history of anxiety induced heart attack in my family, so I am really grateful to not have those anymore.  Medicine has also stabilized my mood somewhat and really helped me sleep better.  I am fortunate in that I have not had any adverse reactions such as loss of creativity.  For me, creativity increases when I am not paralyzed by anxiety.  

To all those of you who have had bad reactions to medicine or bad therapists, I hope you will find whatever you need to help you, without losing yourself, your creativity, or your emotions.  Anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, they can all suck beyond the telling of it, so for what it's worth, my heart goes out to you.

edit: millanha, I have had doctors tell me they *could* tell me for sure whether they are using the right meds, and what my brain is or isn't doing, but they would have to cut my brain out first.  So they have to use trial and error and we judge meds by how I react to them, and how I am when on them.  It took a while to find the right ones for me.

I've suffered from manic-depression since I was 13. When I was 16 I was put onto anti-depressants. I was on them for about 11 months until I decided that enough was enough. I couldn't handle the zombie-like state I was in constantly. I felt as though I had been raped of all emotions. It seemed like it was just as much effort to slap a fake smile on my face as it was to be expressionless. When I took myself off them, I welcomed the flooding of dread and misery that I had before I was put on the meds. It was a relief to be honest, just to feel something. And when the highs came, I grasped them and rode it until the low came. I'm 21 now and still suffer from manic-depression, but I can cope with it now. I'm in a big low right now, which is what usualy happens when I am stuck for a period of time with nothing to occupy my time, IE, college finished in June, add that to other stuff going on in my life and it is a bad combination. However hard it is now, and no matter how hard it is to remember the good times, I somehow manage to keep a hold of something that keeps me from going right under. I'm not gloating or anything about that, but I just know how my mind works completely now that I know what will set me off, when to expect something to drag me down and to go by my instincts on things that has the potential to completely destroy everything I've worked towards to be able to maintain something that keeps my head above water.

It has it's drawbacks though, I find it hard to connect to people. I see the world through science, meaning that I have to rationalize everything so that I can understand it myself. Further distancing me from people, it seems that the world doesn't like people who will use their brains.

Good things about it though is that I know that I should always keep my mind active, one way or another. I do a lot of arty things, painting, sculpting, stuff like that. So I usualy have something on the go with that. Or I will sit and study for hours. I know that we are "supposed" to switch off and become bored with studying, but I don't. I don't know if that means that there is something wrong with my brain or not, but I'm not complaining. I refuse to watch TV, I find it dull and repetitive, there is nothing that I can gain from it. People think that I am a freak because I WON'T sit for hours and watch the idiot box. It is a choice and I chose not to, I would rather do something productive with my time, that will benefit me in the long run.

Am I obese or overweight? No, far from it. I think that it would be impossible to make a collective group of gamers and say that they will fall within this category or that one. There are so many gamers from so many different walks of life it is unreal. And I find it impossible to believe that the person who wrote that article has never picked up a game in their life or doesn't play something right now.

It is perfectly normal for someone to go off into their mind and imagine what the world would be like if such a thing were to happen. What the writers seemed to have forgot is that is pretty much how games come to be, but someone daydreaming or using their imagination and coming up with a story and making it a reality. You don't see people jumping all over your classical composers such as Mozart or Beethoven or artists like Da Vinci, who really made what they had in their mind into something tangible. No, they praise them, they encourage people to listen to them, banging on about how you will become more intelligent for listening to them.
It wasn't so long ago that surgeons were encouraged to play computer games as they helped to develop hand/eye co-ordination.

I'm gonna stop there or I won't stop. For those who read that, thank you :-*, for those that didn't, no "thank you" for you, because you wouldn't have read to this point  :P.

HeyBubbe - I would give you link, if I could find it, to a computer game for children with cancer.  It's a first person shooter type thingie where they kill different kinds of cancer cells.  Teaches them about the disease, but more importantly, it cheers them up.  It's main purpose is mood elevation because of the positive effects that has on the body's ability to heal.

Thanks, CatOfWar! That would be wonderful. I couldn't find the links to another story about video games that relieve stress in test subjects. Tetris was, once again, listed. So was Katamari Damacy (aka-electronic bubble wrap), and a certain "digital dollhouse" game by EA that no one has ever heard of and only frat boys and ex cons play... I think it was called, like, "The Blips" or something. Who knows.  ;)

Also, hearing a lot of stories about people's various experiences with depression:Last year I studied vitamin's effect on mood and decided to give it a try. Although initially dubious, I started a regiment that consisted of an adult multivitamin, calcium, Omega 3, Folic acid, and most importantly vitamin D (with the multi, I take about 2200 mgs of vitamin D a day. It took 6 weeks, but it actually worked. I felt about as good as when I was on a low-dose paxil, but without the anhedonia and zombified affect. I still get angry, or down, or cranky, but in relatively healthy doses (SOME negative affect on occasion is perfectly normal and doesn't take away the emotional range I need for doing art). If anyone might want to give this a try, discuss it with your doctor and GET YOUR VITAMIN D LEVELS CHECKED--deficiencies are rampant and D is hugely related to mood.

The best part is that I can't swallow big pills so I take everything in candy form (chocolate calcium chews, gummi everything else). It's like a handful of candy for breakfast every morning.  :D

Also, for those looking into therapy, look into art therapy. This is one of my concentrations in school (the other being integrative psychotherapies (such as CBT, psychodynamic, existential... etc), and it works really well with creative personalities. CBT is very effective, but it's not the "most" effective therapy--it's just the most popular because it's usually the only one insurances will cover. Actually, no approach is the "most" effective as effectiveness is subjective and based on the individual's needs. Plus, studies have proved that all therapeutic interventions are therapeutic (it's a matter of finding the right therapist and an approach that fits your objectives and personality). Art therapy is just like many other "talk therapy" approaches, but instead of using words to make meaning out of feelings, experiences, and subjective realities, you use art and imagery. It's really very cool.

The moral of the story: the Vita+Art mod speeds up the erosion of the negative moodlets, and it's compatible with Awsomemod (or Rum).

I've read stories about those studies and think that's more likely than games cause all of the negative shit they're claiming. When I was preg with my first child, I'd play Tetris when upset, which helped to calm down the kid that was doing barrel rolls in my belly due to my stress. :D

Used to be, when I would get into a towering rage or in tears I'd go play columns to calm down.

When I go into a rage I load up GTA and run over some pedestrians.  I will, of course, never do this in real life.  Mainly becuase I ride a bike everywhere.  Much less efficient.

I with millahnna on this. GTA is very theraputic for me as well. I get angry at things I can't control, so I take it out on things that aren't real in GTA. That way I feel better and no harm done.

I always turned on Sim City 4 when I was in a bad mood. I would go take a city of 200,000+ people and send a ton of volcanoes and meteorites and stuff like that  on them, and I would feel a lot better. And then just turn the game off without saving.  :)

I used to play FPS when I was in a bad mood but now don't like them so much. Last one I did was Bioshock, awesome one. Now I use RPGs with active attack combats like Fallout 3 on PC or The world ends with you on DS. Games are perfect to destress :P

Yeah, games can be a good way to channel stress. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, though. I pick up a book when I'm in a bad mood.

So do I. 

A good heavy dictionary, for instance. They can do a lot of damage when thrown. 

Medical reference books also make good throwing weapons.

I always liked to throw darts or use a sling shot.

For me, what works is playing FPSes or rail shooters like Time Crisis or House of the Dead for when I rage.  I definately don't play Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia as that game + Rage might = a $130 projectile.  Too bad I don't have a swap magic or I would play my beatmania and Popnmusic games and that seems to soothe me as well.

And why yes, I am a male.

If you've got the Oxford English dictionary, you don't have to throw it. Just drop it on someone. The Collected Works of William Shakespeare will also do in a pinch.

If you feel like going into a bad mood for no apparant reason check this out. (Caution: some very graphic and disturbing footage)
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26020229-2,00.html

I couldn't resist clicking. Ouch. Damn you Immortelle

Hehe Captain Shan, you falled for it. Never click on odd links, specially when the OP warns about it ;D
Here, that'll make you feel better *hands a bottle of rum*

One of the first lessons you ought to learn: NEVER click on links if there is a warning posted. That said, be careful with the other links that don't have a warning posted unless you want to get shocked or grossed out. If the person that put the link up and tells you it's safe, you can usually (note that I said usually there) trust them and click it without needing a barf bag.

Anyone brave enough to click this want to summarize this? I heed the warning, and the follow up comments about needing a barf bag. If this is something like "Two Girls+ One Cup=Less Stress", than I shall proudly embrace my gross-out avoidance tendencies.

There's really no way to sugar coat it.
Male Chicks + Grinding Machine = Horrible Way to Die
Luckily, it's a YouTube video that doesn't automatically start, so you can read without watching, if you choose.

Wait, "Male Chicks + Grinding Machine" as in little baby chickens in a combine, or transsexuals on a vicious mechanical dildo?

If it's the former, that's horribly tragic  >:(. If it's the latter, that's ridiculously tragic  :o.

The horribly tragic option, I'm afraid.
But the ridiculously tragic option made me laugh so hard I cried! That is just so wrong!

Ugh, that sucks. I mean, the baby chicks death sucks not the part about making you laugh so hard that you cried. That part was actually cool. Animal cruelty is the crappiest of the craptastic. Now I need to throw the entire Encyclopedia Brittanica at someone.  >:(

Here! Throw it at Thoma$!
(http://images.thesimsresource.com/scaled/1003/w-130h-169-1003470.jpg)
Now that's a horrible avatar he got. LOL.

Could be worse. There could be nipples.

OUCH!! Mine eyes!! Dr House, that is just so wrong.  Thats even more grotesque than the Atwa pic or that YouTube video.

*edit.  Edit, nipples?  Okay, now you are just scaring me.  This thread is turning into a shock and horror thread I think

No amount of rum could get that out of my mind  :'(

He looks very red in that picture. Hmmm.... sunburn or high blood pressure? :-\

*is laughing hysterically at that pic of Thomass, so much so that posting something coherent here is an impossibility*

Wait. Upon second inspection, I've deduced that he's severely constipated.

That does explain why he's so terminally full of shit.

Also--he can't buy some sunscreen?  Really?

Nah, he  is poor widdle Thomarse who can't afford sunswean, 'cos nasty wasty piwates are takin' all his purdy pixels an' not even payin' for them. :P

Hm.

Something tells me that reading the fuckers would have more effect. Now pardon me, I have to study up on the arrrrdvark.  ;)

Is that actually Thomass?  I've never stepped foot on the TSR forums.

Posted for more accuracy.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/kxmerune/109.jpg)

FILTHYPRIEST!
:GLOMP:

.....What... What have you....

That's Thom@$$? KILL IT. KILL IT WITH FIRE. NOW.

Now Filthy Priest that image just made me jump out of lurking for the past two months... Well played sir, I Love It!

Now, WHY would you post that libertarian mockery pic of president Obama. NOT COOL! Not cool at all! But upon closer inspection, it looks like like... OMG... Obama is in ur accounts, deletin ur stuffs!!! Holy shitsauce, I'm goin' off the grid, like, now!

Too soon?  ;D

Fire? Nah, we need the uh...Batman.  ;D
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2qve6og.jpg)

Captain Obvious replies, "Hey! Batman's got a bat, man!"

Batman works. Especially with his bat, man.