PMBD

Possible class action suit.

I purchased said game and agreed to the current license agreement at time of purchase.  After purchase, producer of said game changes the agreement and makes it so either I agree or lose the rights to use said game. Thereby they nullifying my purchase and keep my money unless I agree to new terms.  I feel this is coercion and theft of my money.  EA’s last included me being forced to allow them free access to my computer at any time without notice to me. ( see section 2 and 3) If I chose not to allow them this access I no longer have use to my purchased game and feel I should get my money returned. I have purchased many EA games over the years.  I have purchased multiple copies for I and my many children to use on various computers all at the same ip. This amounts to over 1000.00 over the years. I being forcibly being coerced to agree to whatever they write in order to continue using my legally purchased games without compensation. Others keep telling me to just agree, they are only using this on the abusers of the rules. They are protecting themselves. Well who's protecting me? I say any forced entry into my computer that can be possibly abused should be stopped.  I only have their word that it won’t be abused.  I have no control over who works for or runs their company.

A copy of new agreement in next post if I can figure out how to find this thread. Keep your fingers crossed. I am looking for a lawyers as we speak and trying to find copies of original agreements on all my old games. I am sick of being forced to just agree to whatever or lose any initial investment of money and time in the games. This letter is a starting point to an initial talk to a lawyer.

New agreement

ELECTRONIC ARTS
SOFTWARE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
FOR THE EA DOWNLOAD MANAGER

This End User License Agreement (“License”) is an agreement between you and Electronic Arts Inc. ("EA"). This License governs your use of this application and all related software, documentation, and updates and upgrades that replace or supplement the application and are not distributed with a separate license (together, the “Application”).
 
By installing or using The APPLICATION, you consent to be bound by this LICENSE.  If you do not agree to all of the terms of this LICENSE, then do not install or use the APPLICATION.  IF YOU INSTALL the Application, the terms and CONDITIONS of this LICENSE ARE fully accepted by you.
 
1.   License Grant and Terms of Use. 

A.   Grant. EA grants you a personal, non-exclusive license to install and use the Application for your personal, noncommercial use solely as set forth in this License and any accompanying documentation. Any commercial use is prohibited. You are expressly prohibited from sublicensing, renting, leasing or otherwise distributing the Application or rights to use the Application. The term of your license shall commence on the date that you start to download, install or otherwise use the Application, and shall end on the earlier of the date that you dispose of the Application; or EA's termination of this License. 

B.   Copies. You may download the number of copies allowed by the Application's digital rights management from an authorized source. The number of copies that you can download during a consecutive period of days may be limited.  You may use only one copy of the Application at any given time. You may not make a copy of the Application available on a network where it could be used by multiple users at the same time. You may not make the Application available over a network where it could be downloaded by multiple users.  For more information concerning the digital rights management that applies to the Application, please review the terms accompanying the distribution of the Application. Your license will terminate immediately if you attempt to circumvent digital rights management or other terms and conditions that apply to the Application or the software delivered through the Application.

C.   License Validation.  The Application is required to validate the license for certain products distributed by EA.  You acknowledge and agree that the Application will automatically validate license rights for some or all EA products without separate notice to you. This means that in order to use the Application and certain EA products, you must leave the Application installed on your computer and maintain a connection to the Internet.  You acknowledge and agree that the Application may use information regarding your computer and your use of the Application to validate your license rights and to update the Application. We may use this information to improve our products and services and may disclose this information to others for that purpose, but not in a form that personally identifies you.  You also agree that the Application may automatically download and install updates that EA deems necessary.  You acknowledge that any obligation EA may have to support the previous version(s) may be ended upon the availability of the update.

D.   Reservation of Rights and Restrictions.  The Application is licensed, and not sold, to you for use only under the terms of this License. Except as expressly licensed to you herein, EA reserves all right, title and interest in the Application and all software delivered through the Application (including all characters, storyline, images, photographs, animations, video, music, text), and all associated copyrights, trademarks, and other intellectual property rights therein.  The License is limited to the intellectual property rights of EA and its licensors in the Application and does not include any rights to other patents or intellectual property. Except, and only to the extent that may be permitted under applicable law, you may not decompile, disassemble, or reverse engineer the Application by any means whatsoever, or alter, modify, enhance, or create a derivative work of the Application.  You may not remove, alter, or obscure any product identification, copyright, or other intellectual property notices in the Application or software delivered through the Application.

2.  Consent to Use of Data.  You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system and application software  and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online play. EA may also use this information in the aggregate and, in a form which does not personally identify you, to improve our products and services and we may share that data with our third party service providers.  IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION.

3. Consent to Public Display of Data. When you use the Application online, EA and its affiliates may also collect, use, store, transmit and publicly display statistical data regarding game play when you use the Application online (including scores, rankings and achievements), or to identify content that is created and shared by you with other players.  Data that personally identified you is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at privacy.ea.com.

4. Termination. This License is effective until terminated. Your rights under this License will terminate immediately and automatically without any notice from EA if (i) you fail to comply with any of the terms and conditions of this License; or (ii) EA ceases to support the Application. Promptly upon termination, you must cease all use of the Application and destroy all copies of the Application in your possession or control.  EA’s termination will not limit any of EA’s other rights or remedies at law or in equity. Sections 2-10 of this License shall survive termination or expiration of this License for any reason.

 5.  Disclaimer of Warranties.  TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THE APPLICATION IS PROVIDED TO YOU “AS IS,” WITH ALL FAULTS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU. EA AND EA’S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY EA FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 6) DO NOT MAKE, AND HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE.  EA DOES NOT WARRANT AGAINST INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE APPLICATION; THAT THE APPLICATION WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS; THAT OPERATION OF THE APPLICATION WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT THE APPLICATION WILL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE OR THAT ANY ERRORS IN THE APPLICATION WILL BE CORRECTED. NO ORAL OR WRITTEN ADVICE PROVIDED BY EA OR ANY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF OR LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE LIMITATIONS ON THE APPLICABLE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF A CONSUMER, SO SOME OR ALL OF THE ABOVE EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

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7. Limitation of Liability is a Material Term of this License. You agree that the provisions in this License that limit liability are essential terms of this License.  The foregoing limitations of liability apply even if any remedies described in this License fail in their essential purpose.

8.  Severability and Survival. If any provision of this License is illegal or unenforceable under applicable law, the remainder of the provision shall be amended to achieve as closely as possible the effect of the original term and all other provisions shall continue in full force and effect. 

9.  U.S. Government Restricted Rights. If you are a government end user, then this provision applies to you.  The software provided in connection with this License has been developed entirely at private expense,   as defined in FAR section 2.101, DFARS section 252.227-7014(a)(1) and DFARS section 252.227-7015 (or any equivalent or subsequent agency regulation thereof), “commercial items,” “commercial computer software” and/or “commercial computer software documentation.”  Consistent with DFARS section 227.7202 and FAR section 12.212, and to the extent required under U.S. federal law, the minimum restricted rights as set forth in FAR section 52.227-19 (or any equivalent or subsequent agency regulation thereof), any use, modification, reproduction, release, performance, display, disclosure or distribution thereof by or for the U.S. Government shall be governed solely by this License and shall be prohibited except to the extent expressly permitted by this License.

10.  Injunctive Relief. You agree that a breach of this License may cause irreparable injury to EA for which monetary damages would not be an adequate remedy and EA shall be entitled to seek equitable relief in addition to any remedies it may have hereunder or at law.

11.  Governing Law. This License shall be governed by and construed (without regard to conflicts or choice of law principles) under the laws of the State of California as applied to agreements entered into and to be performed entirely in California between California residents. Unless expressly waived by EA in writing for the particular instance or contrary to local law, the sole and exclusive jurisdiction and venue for actions related to the subject matter hereof shall be the California state and federal courts having within their jurisdiction the location of EA’s principal place of business.  Both parties consent to the jurisdiction of such courts and agree that process may be served in the manner provided herein for giving of notices or otherwise as allowed by California or federal law.  The parties agree that the UN Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods (Vienna, 1980) shall not apply to this License or to any dispute or transaction arising out of this License.

12.  Export. You agree to abide by U.S. and other applicable export control laws and agree not to transfer the Application to a foreign national, or national destination, which is prohibited by such laws, without first obtaining, and then complying with, any requisite government authorization. You certify that you are not a person with whom EA is prohibited from transacting business under applicable law.

13.  Third Party Notices.  Adobe® Flash® Player. Copyright © 1996 - 2006 Adobe Systems Incorporated. All Rights Reserved.  Protected by U.S. Patent 6,879,327; Patents Pending in the United States and other countries. Adobe and Flash are either trademarks or registered trademarks in the United States and/or other countries.

14.  Entire Agreement.  This License constitutes the entire agreement between you and EA with respect to the Application and supersedes all prior or contemporaneous understandings regarding such subject matter.  No amendment to or modification of this License will be binding unless made in writing and signed by EA.  No failure to exercise, and no delay in exercising, on the part of either party, any right or any power hereunder shall operate as a waiver thereof, nor shall any single or partial exercise of any right or power hereunder preclude further exercise of any other right hereunder.  In the event of a conflict between this License and any applicable purchase or other terms, the terms of this License shall govern.

While I think this belongs in the Sharkbait area, I'll respond because it is a valid discussion, at least in my opinion.

I've always had a problem with eulas that are not printed on the outside of the box.  They take your money then have all these conditions and the like and it pisses me off.  If I buy something, its mine.  I do not have a bunch of conditions when I buy a music cd, a purse, yarn, needles and the like - and if I buy a gun, the conditions are up front at time of purchase.  It bothers me that the makers of computer software seem to think they are above this and that charging us 50$ for a computer program is a rental and an excuse for them to slip spyware into our machines.

I keep waiting for some lawsuit to come along and have the eulas deemed illegal or unconstitutional on some level.

Was the download manager ever NOT phone home. He just misses his mom.

Section 1.D would be his mom. And ya it totally sucks but alas somewhat standard practice. They wonder why people pirate. hmmmm can't imagine.

Well actually Soggy technically speaking, there are all sorts of conditions for what you buy.  There are no end of legal conditions for cds. 

I've never had to agree to something to listen to a CD - then again, I haven't bought any in a long time, except for independent label stuff.  I will not do business with the RIAA until they stop being greedy fucks.

This is going to be your biggest problem with the case - the fact that you keep purchasing the games and agreeing to the agreements - for years.  One of the reasons that the recent Spore lawsuit had some success is because they changed the rules and hid the SecuRom inclusion.  A lawyer would argue that if it was your first time, fair enough - but there's only so much "stupid" that the law can control as such **lawyer is unlikely to say stupid or put it this rudely, but this is what they will mean.

Perhaps your only success, and it's never going to happen, would be to have a 30 money back return - and the reason that won't happen - piracy.

Although to be honest, I've never heard of anyone trying to pirate games using a money-back return policy.

It's one of the concerns of people in the area - because its prevalence is hidden.  Those sorts of people are often hidden pirates - people who rent DVDs/games and burn their own copies at home - hence once you break the seal (at least here) unless it's faulty, it's yours forever.  Like the usual stories of women buying expensive clothes and returning them after they've worn them once.

This is how it is here, music/movies/games, anything on CD/DVD media once opened cannot be returned - only exchanged.  If exchanging, they also remove the packaging so you cannot return it. 

Ahem. *whistles*
EB have a 7 day return if you don't enjoy a game...

Really? That's cool - I already shop with them because of their coolness with Playstation 2 issues, and this is good to know.   :-*

 Do you mean electronics boutique??? Because the one here will not return anything even if it is unopened. The best you can do is a store credit that is not even worth half of what you payed for the game. My husband bought a game and did not even leave the mall, he walked out of the store and his brother told him that he will lend him his copy. Not even 5 minutes after buying that game  that was unopened they would only take it back for part store credit. I know other people who bought systems from them and had major issues. We learned fast that around here, not too many serious gamers deal with them ( plus they are over priced) Maybe they just try to take advantage that they are one of the only game stores in our town.

That's only on used games Skadi. Anything new, especially PC stuff, is yours forever once you open it. We're told my corporate not to take back PC games unless it's to swap for another copy of the same thing. I find it ridiculous, but I'm just a lowly salesperson.

They USED to have a seven day return policy on new stuff too, but Spore screwed with it as far as I could see. Although the EB geeks I talked to indicated they'd still take back games if it wasn't the online registration ones. (unfortunately very few of those these days)

edit: Checked their website, that IS the case. Here be the link. http://www.ebgames.com.au/help.cfm

Hellooo Ebay.

Hubby shops at EB all the time (shrug, he likes the local one) and he says that he takes games back with no problems - both new and used.  They give him full store credits, but he said that's what he asks for.  They all know him in there, he's been shopping at the same one for ages.  :D

I do have to agree that games are probably the only place I can think of where you find out your terms and conditions after your purchase.  But I really think that most people (unlike us who have had a reason to read this one) don't even bother to read a EULA.  I mean your average user - someone just pulling a game out of the wrapper and playing it.  Who sits down and says, "Hmmm, I have a new shiny game, but let me sit and read this legal mumbo-jumbo first?"

I usually don't bother - I know its a bunch of stuff I -don't- agree with, but figure either I'll follow it, or what the hell can they really do about it anyway.

For me, I pay attention or not depending on what sort of application it is. Regardless of what I sign off to, I imagine EA would have a hard time justifying, for example, sharing my credit card information which they found on my computer. On the other hand, things like Facebook's old (at least I think it's old) policy of basically owning anything and everything posted using their service scare the crap out of me. Basically, if it's something where I'm going to be relaying sensitive information, I make damn sure that it's going to be secure... and I don't use Facebook. :P

For online things, I read the EULAs - but when its a case of a game I've bought and -then- they tell me that I don't own it?  Well, fuck 'em, because once I paid for it, its -mine-

Makes more sense to have them when you install the game than on the box! I don't have any issues with the way things are done except that the paysites get to still make money. I think they should just make it right or make it wrong.

I'd rather they were on the box because then I could decide then and there if I wanted to buy the damn thing if I agree with the EULA. If I don't like it, I don't buy it or get it in any other way. If it's clearly stated then you don't wind up with one of the most expensive coasters you'll ever own. Once you open the box and start to install, you can't get your money back. Better to be able to read before than to regret getting the piece of shit in the first place.

It's wrong. No EULA in the world will change that.

It makes more sense for it to be on the box. Once you open the game you usually can't take it back; it's absurd that consumers have to commit their money before reading the contract. I don't understand why there hasn't been a lawsuit about it either, unless it's because EULAs arent worth much anyway.

On what planet does it make more sense to have it when you install the game?  And just because you don't have any issues, doesn't mean there aren't any.

I'd have no problem with it being inside the box IF I could return it if I disagreed.  But the way it works, the moment you open the box you've voided any money back promise.  The best you can do is get another copy of the same software.  And if you disagree with their policy, well, that's your tough luck, you've just bought yourself an expensive little Frisbee.  

This would be as if you bought an MP3 player. And the warranty was put in the battery compartment.  And the first rule of the warranty was, "If you open the battery compartment, you void the warranty!"  

It doesn't "make sense" to me.  And it only works out to benefit the gaming industry, not the consumer.  This is one of the things I mention when people start trying to cry the blues that pirating software has been soooo cruel to the poor gaming companies and how we all ought to be more sympathetic.  Bullshit.  If the car company started a policy of, "Once you open the car doors, the warranty is null and void and you can't return the car!" there would be outrage.  But when it comes to music, movies, or software we all just go, "Oh, okay."  

And it's getting worse.  At least it used to be that if you ruined your gaming disc, most companies would send you another one to replace it, if you sent it to them.  I accidentally vacuumed my Sims 1 disk and shattered it.  I called Maxis, sent them the pieces, the case, and five dollars for postage and they sent me a new game.  When a similar thing happened to a friend of mine with Sims 2, she was told she had to buy an entire new game.