PMBD

For anyone who hasn't noticed yet, we can haz new legal threat (http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/legal/tsr2.txt)! As usual, it is both misdirected, going to the WRONG PEOPLE, as well as inaccurate, since their arguments over their own legality are meaningless and irrelevant assertions.

Crap! PMBD's domain comes up blocked as "adult" so I can't go look at it! Anyone want to quote for those of us who can't see?

"Please contact us if we can be of further assistance in clarifying any of the nuances regarding the ownership of the contact your customer is redistributing."


FAIL

as requested

Copyright infringement report - Urgent


Dear Sir or Madam:

We represent The Sims Resource (www.thesimsresource.com). A wholly owned
division of IBIBI HB, located in Sweden.

A brief description of our business model can be found here:
http://www.thesimsresource.com/helpcenter/about

It has come to our attention that a few domains using your host services
have waged a war against our company. Your customer, hosting the domain
"mustbedetroyed.org" has as its sole objective the destruction of our
site: http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/mission.html . Upon further
research it is apparent that this activity is in direct violation of
your TOS, specifically where copyright infringements are concerned.

Your customer has self-appointed himself to defend the position of
Electronic Arts, Inc., (EA) and its End User License Agreement (EULA)
for the Sims Label. Your customer maintains that our company and others
with similar business models violate the EULA listed here:
http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/. Yet it has been confirmed by EA
that the EULA listed is limited to the game software, and there exists a
separate EULA that applies to our business model:
http://bbs.thesims2.ea.com/community/bbs/messages.php?threadID=17989d983b8aa06886b13273b94f2387&directoryID=2&startRow=1&openItemID=item.2,item.43,item.61,item.104,item.41,item.127,item.23

Despite this clarification, your customer continues his defamation. In
short, EA states that our business model is NOT in violation of their
EULA. Your customer has a selective interpretation of the situation, and
on that basis alone, has mounted an army of disillusioned miscreants
against us.

We have also contacted your customer's previous hosting companies. He
boasts about "beyond the law" and hiding behind Asian hosts to thwart
our attempts. An example of our ongoing battle is listed here:
http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/legal/tsr.txt . Your customer has a
startling lack of regard for authority and continues to bounce from
hosts and providers. He is still using a combination of different
companies to hide his illegal activities:
http://www.robtex.com/dns/mustbedestroyed.org.html .

As listed on this page http://abuse.dreamhost.com/copyright/ , your
customer violates this policy by redistributing content without
authorization: http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/booty/ . Please note
that the attack is not limited to our company. In addition to this
violation he further condones software piracy and his forums propagate
discussions about redistributing content on other external sites as well.

We trust now that your customer's activities have been brought to your
attention you will find him in violation of your rules. Please contact
us if we can be of further assistance in clarifying any of the nuances
regarding the ownership of the contact your customer is redistributing.

Sincerely,
Thomas Isaksson
The Sims Reource

He fails to grasp that the IP he is linking DOES NOT EVEN POINT to where he thinks it does, so he fails. MustBeDestroyed.org isn't even affiliated with PMBD, Must Be Destroyed is a generic subdomain provider.

Heh, looks like Thoma$$ has retaliated from the recent TSR atrocities with an effort of his own. (if you don't know what I am talking about check out the noticeboard above)  I suspect he is hoping that Pescado's ISP will terminate his account, effectively killing PMBD.  Keep hoping moron.  If what Pescado was doing was illegal, authorities would have shut him down ages ago  And breach of copyright?  Come on man, we all know you're only trying this angle to draw attention away from breaches of copyright that your own employees have committed.  Give it up already!  The EULA is the statement that matters and that has not changed.  And 'different companies'?.  We all know that is BS

Who did they send it to?  Did they really send it to Pescado himself?  

"We are just a fansite!!!!!!!einz"

It's also pretty cute that they have to lie to even make anyone look twice. The EULA was never changed, and there is no seperate EULA for anything of The Sims 2 brand except maybe the fansite kit, wich does not create content but instead contains some images and crap, wich they used in vs 7 of their site.
They know they're liars, and they'll simply keep on bluffing.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Fail indeed.

At least this time they didn't even TRY to sound all legal beagle, yet still they phailed at sounding professional.  They just don't learn, do they?

I just noticed something.  Thomas has contradicted himself.  He states clearly that TSR is a business.  Then turns around and claims the whole fansite thing.  You can't be both mate.  Pick one and stick with it.

They should have hired a professional to write that.
I think they forgot to bold and supersize the word 'Thomas', because that's the only thing in that letter that really excists.
Their 'business'? Hidden under IBIBI. Their copyrights? Given up to EA Games by using their tools and file format. The 'different EULA'? Not for the Sims 2 Custom content tools. If they want copyrights, they should take the EULA to court and challenge. Untill that time, all they have is bluff and intimidation, and a little ddos here and there.

Not to mention the datamining that went on on their site wich they are trying to hide. Very professional.

So, Pescado, are you going to respond to the letter?  Just curious...

Thomas dahhling if your legal threat had any real oomph behind it - guess what - it would be written by a real lawyer - like the corporate ones for the busahemfansite you claim that you don't own, and don't illegally make money from by violating EA's EULA.

I screamed with laughter after I read the epic phail of a legal threat.

Unless they've updated the copyright laws recently, I don't think pixels can be claimed as someones own work.  In which case if they did, EVERY creator would have to apply for a copyright when they modified the original piece...AND have permission from the original creator.


I think Thoma$$ did.  He had Atwat or DOT write it  ;)

We? Is this the royal we? I only see one name at the bottom.  We are not amused.


BUSINESS!


As Pescado stated, this does not go to where you think it goes. Moron.  Plus, note bolding done by me.  It does not state that the sole objective is to destroy TSR.  Reading failure.



No, it doesn't.  EULA NOT CHANGED.  Announcement from some BBS drone doesn't count and besides, distribution is NOT ILLEGAL. LEARN. TO. READ.


Defamation?  You keep using that word.  I do not think that word means what you think it means.

I am a disillusioned miscreant? Excellent.



Pescado, shame on you! You don't respect authority!



But I thought you stated above that the SOLE OBJECTIVE was to destroy TSR?  Moron.


You sure are being the helpful little elf lately, Thomas. 


Moron.

Roflmao@ miscreants.

Mind you Pescado and his band of merry miscreants has a certain ring to it.

Yes, but I don't think they meant "Professional idiot." 

Edit to add:   Nice response, Paleo!

True.  Very true, Darqstar.  They did have a professional idiot write it tho...need i say more.  Still, that is my laugh of the week.


Paleo, your response is full of win.

Just to echo what Darqstar asked, was the letter sent directly to Pes? Because it would be rather humorous for Thomas to ask Pes to remove himself.  :P We should write a letter back. Just for shits and giggles.

ROFLMAO even more at "disillusioned miscreant."  Thom must have asked someone to read Oliver Twist to him.

That's going to be my new sig.

Oh Thomas, thanks for giving us a little chuckle in the morning.  :D  Keep it up buddy, we aren't going anywhere!

Probably sent to the host, the host lol'd and sent it to Pescado. Same old same old.

Also:
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5875/failownedbillboardfail1.jpg)

Except there's no copyright violation going on from PMBD's side... but still funny.

So... now we're Pescado and his band of disillusioned miscreants?

In all of this, I'm still wondering how they think that it's, you know, legal to be selling fan content (and thus how they feel that can claim copyright over it, let alone make legal threats over people sharing it legally). On top of the EULA stating that user-created custom content isn't for commercial gain, there's the whole issue of (last I checked, anyway) having to disclaim fan content for just about anything and point out that, "Hey, the copyright belongs to those guys over there. Not for profit here." If people have to do that for detailed artwork, then believe you me, TSR's floodfill pixels fall right into the same category. It's fan work. It's a fansite. That shit's not supposed to be a business.

Oh, TSR. Yet again, you fail miserably, both in your attempt to shut down PMBD and in your constant struggles to be seen as "professional". I do not think you have a full grasp of the vocabulary you are using, and I've read essays written by seventh graders that contradict themselves less.

Either way, Thomas is always good for entertainment value, I suppose, although it could also be a lame attempt at distracting us from the Buggybooz/Shakeshaft drama.

The fact of the matter is that the legality or lack thereof that TSR's operations have is completely irrelevant to what we're doing. WE do what we do because the EULA specifically GRANTS us that, therefore, WE CAN DO IT. That is what the noncommercial section REALLY says: It says that we CAN put it on our noncommercial site, and since this site is noncommercial, we can do it. It's as simple as that. Strictly speaking, we can put up ANYONE'S work, whether they are a paysite or not, because it says we can. We just lack any particular motivation to do such a thing.

I second that.

Still, if I had handed in that lame attempt at writing an official-sounding letter at university, they'd have given it back to me laughing. TSR's lack of logical thinking, let me show you it.

Well, I would rather be a disillusioned miscreant then a blood sucking twat/s like Thomas and his conies.

I had to laugh so hard when I read that, I thought about making it my sig too.

Edit: I also love how he says there is a separate EULA for their business model pointing to Drea's statement because all legal statements end with I'm not posting this without the permission of our Sims team. Just to be clear, this statement is coming from our Sims team which includes all management for all of our games and our Sims legal team. ZOMG1!! I also don't remember agreeing to it, so it doesn't matter to me.

Either they are just trying to distract us again or Thomas really does believe that his " I'm telling your mom" letter will have some effect. Ha ha you fail. Again.

On a more positive note. What a great drag name, Miss Creant.

Since when did MaxoidDreas ramblings on a forum for 12's become the new Sims 2 EULA? Seems as though Thomas lies for his own gain...oops, we already knew that, doh!

Oh YES! I'm a disillusioned miscreant! I rock!  ::) :D Gawd, what a 'tard. So this is what they call peps who learn the facts huh?

I agree, this seems to be a very lame attempt to push the light off the important matters.

And awesome post paleo!

Most lolarious - I think this is a TSR first, uh?

Well said Paleo! I are amused  :D

He even mistyped "mustbedetroyed" first time he mentions it and mistyped his own company name in the signature. I'm in awe at his professionality.  ::)

Haha! I didn't even notice it because I automatically go into "skim/ignore" mode when they post anything "serious"  ::) Great catch--and awesome professionalism thomass.

tsr must be deStroyed!!!!!!!!!!

This son of a bitch posts a link to an UNSTICKIED THREAD. and it was after my complaints and threats they dropped it.

If it isn´t stickied, it ISN´T official.

HE says we host in Malaysia, yet they host in Sweden. You hipocrit asshole, why you don´t set up at US?

Pes If I knew half the computer knowledge you know, I would have blown their computers and servers a long time ago.
 >:(

Those kinds of guys are the one who most pisses me off.

"Do what I say, don´t do what I´m doing though"

*runs off to make Miss Creant sim*

Probably because they live in Sweden.  Most of their customer base is in the USA though.

Pfft. Noob can't even remember how to spell his own business.

Even assuming for a nanosecond that this "legal threat" is real (I doubt it - I think Atwat's arseing around again), this isn't anything in there that represents a real "cease and desist" order, so it means diddly squat. Besides, if Thomass tried to take PMBD to court, then I'm sure the judge will be just as interested in those IP addresses that links Thomas to the scenes of many cybercrimes.

That would make a great drag name....Or maybe Missy Creant.

And this put a huge smile on my face - I'd laugh, but that would probably hurt so smiles will just have to do :)

PMBD, More Miscreant Than YOU! Suck it, Thomass, you seem to be good at it.

This is getting funnier by the second.  :D

I cant help but wonder what that man thinks of this:

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2009Apr03/0,4670,EUSwedenOnlinePiracy,00.html

I have not read through the new law, but it would appear that TSR could be closed under some of the new provisions if they were reported to their domain host. I will try to find the full law and post it, or a link, here.

The more I think about this lolzy letter, the more I do believe, that it is indeed another way of distracting the community from the real issue. It's just a way by TSR to put themselves back as the victim here and have people feel sorry for them. Well, guess what Thomass and Co, we still think Shakeshaft is a thief and Thomass is a haxxor.

Thwart... makes it sound so epic amirite!  :D :D

Does this mean that there are parts of the game software that you can put up on non-commercial sites, as there is a separate (non existent) one that deals with custom content.  I don't think EA would be agreeing with that any time soon.

Well, I guess Thomas does read the dictionary. We know what the word of that day was (miscreant), so what's the word for today, Thomas? Here, Thomas, maybe I can help you.

How about 'reprobate'. Look it up in the dictionary and you might find you share a similarity with that word.

I usually don't like to call people "fools", but this letter has made me lulz so loud, I had to call Thomass a fool in my signature.

Thanks for inspiring me to write a signature, Thomass (dumbass).

Hey, I want proof of this new, separate, EULA that's made just for your "business model".  Is it from the legal department of EA? NO!

Sounds like a letter full of WAH WAH, telling what someone has done to you. (points and lulz)

Goodness!  Loved the response Paleoanth!

Thomas is so cute, he loves to amuse us.

Disillusioned miscreants. Hm. Thomas, either you don't know English very well, or your Freudian slips are catching up with you.

dis·il·lu·sion   
tr.v.   dis·il·lu·sioned, dis·il·lu·sion·ing, dis·il·lu·sions
To free or deprive of illusion.

Why yes, we are disillusioned, how kind of you to notice!

Also, an ARMY! Ooh, can we haz ranks?

Actually I think the most significant aspect of Thoma's letter is the inference that this business practice is approved by EA Games.

(I am hoping he just misspoke himself when he said "business model", which would make no sense since a business model is just a strategy plan and has no legal relevance at all.)

Secondly, pay sites actually break the law when they extract a game file, alter it, then redistribute that file for profit. But if Maxis is actually going to give up their own claim to copyright then this becomes a financial free for all.

Essentially that means that I can manufacture and mass distribute Sims Custom Content on the shelf right next to their game. Since this is a multi-billion dollar opportunity I wrote them a letter asking them to clarify their position on the matter prior to beginning production. If they are giving TSR and all other creators carte blanche with the copyright...then everyone should be selling those discs at retail stores. Actually, the custom content could potentially make more money than the game.

But I want to see it in writing. If I do not receive and answer within 30 days I will send the next letter Certified mail.

Either they release copyrights and their fan sites become direct competition, or they retain copyright and pay sites are illegal.

It makes one wonder what sort of " attempts" have been thwarted. Would these be the same sort of hacking "attempts" that Buggy and MTS2 have suffered? or are they more basic "attempts" like say... thievery.

Shakeshaft is a thief and Thomass is a haxxor

That letter confuses me? How can he claim copy right on EA products?  If they are so concerned about their stuff being passed around they should tell EA o shut down the exchange then. I downloaded a house from there the other day full of cashcrafts stuff. I did not know it because not all cc is listed until you open it with clean installer.

Dear Sir or Madam Thomas Isaksson is such a pompous ass.

Well Thoma$$... maybe this would be a more appropriate thing to send... after all its a lot more impressive and scary than your 'legal' threat

(http://i41.tinypic.com/9a4lye.jpg)

*prepares for death and bashery*

That macro is awesome!! :D

Oh, how I lol'd. Oh, Tomass, your legal threats are so cuddly. You are, however, severely lacking in brains, thus causing you to fail - time and time again.
Let us not be distracted! Shakeshaft is still a thief!

p.s. Kitty = WIN.

Besides the pseudo intellectual legal lingo (or lack thereof) in that letter, do they even have law to support those claims?
I'm not too familiar with the creation of custom content, but what legal support is there for making profit off of it?
And how are they claiming that the statement about the EULA does not constitute distribution of paysite products when the only support for that claim is a forum post and not an actual rewrite of the EULA?
"Inb4anythingsynonymousto'lurkmoar'" My questions are serious in the sense that I expect a serious answer. Though, I did find the lack of tact in the letter laughable.

Pes, I'm curious. Did they send it to you or think they were sending it to someone else? Just wondering as it as crazy as it sounds. Thomas did give me a good laugh for today. And now, we're an army! Hooray for us!

That macro is awesome really, I can't take my eyes off her.

But seriously, my fish can spell better than ThomA$$.
I mean, he has a 'business' or however he calls it, and still he manages to fail at writing his own 'business' name.Shame on you, SHAME!

Therefore, his name is perfectly written and spectacularously azmazingly purfuct. <-- see? I ken invent njuw wurds liek Thommers toooww  :) !

ETA: I don't want to know how Pescado got it. I can't stand loosing another idol  :(

One of the main problems with file sharing is that everyone is argues it from a different standpoint. The gamer sees a game file, the artist sees a personal creation, the pc analyst sees a pixilated strand of code and the business people see a marketable product. Now throw in the differences in laws, ethics and cultures on an international level. You see how it gets very complex. This debate is so disorganized and unstructured it is impossible to reach a viable outcome. Many people are citing “feelings” which are intangible, then combining them with corporate law, which they have no knowledge of.

The simple fact is that Maxis has never before never taken an official position on this issue. Indeed it was in their best interest NOT to. They could alienate half their customer base if they either condemn or condone file making or file sharing. And the two issues are inexorably linked, because creating custom content, by the letter of the law, is illegal in the first place. You cannot extract a piece of copyrighted software, make slight alterations to the code, and supplant the existing copyright with your result. No matter how pretty you make it look or how long it took you to do so.

The reason that Maxis has looked the other way is simple. It makes them money. If people are creating and sharing files, or even arguing about it, they are playing the game. This is a marking department’s wet dream. Maxis will never blow that ride unless someone attempts to actually incorporate or infringe on their brand identity. In other words; keep those arguments at the children’s table, and just don’t bother the adults.

But they recently have become very friendly with some of the fan sites, even inviting them to do some beta testing for Sims 3. They revised some of their wording to say that they encourage people and websites to create custom content, while at no time actually accepting any responsibility or announcing any affiliation. This basically means they have a PR person trying to make everyone happy while not taking a firm legal position on file sharing or copyright infringement. They might even attempt to acquire a few fan sites up at some point, if the profit margin looks appealing.

But they will first have to make a decision about who owns the copyright to the extracted files and how the laws apply. In order to have a case for infringement you must first establish who holds the copyright. It’s either maxis...or it is the creator. It cannot be both. If it is the creator, then every skinner and T-mogger has the right to produce and distribute their product on the retail market, making them quite wealthy. And there are plenty of manufacturers out there who would leap at the chance. But if it is Maxis, then all paysites are infringing on copyright laws by profiting from distribution.
 
This is why I wrote the letter asking them to provide clear legal verification.

EA is never going to make a definitive statement on that. It's not in their financial interests to do so. Why would they?

Besides, it's not like they haven't had time to think about it. They have and they've made their decision.

I am rather counting on that. The law provides that a cooperation has the rights to a unique product only insofar as they "vigorously and continually" protect their brand identity and its rights. If they do not, they can lose their claim to copyright and another company can move right in.  ;D

That means if Maxis will not take an official stand they could be forced to give up their own copyright. Which would make many creators very rich people.

No, serious...what threat? All I see is Thomass whining like a little bitch.

Combined with DOT's pathetic lament, it would seem to indicate that subscriptions are taking a nose-dive.  All we had to do show people who they really are and what they're all about.

I dunno, the whole issue of sharing files was answered for me when EA began including mesh files with Pets Bodyshop.  :D

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=202574

(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg194/ekimsal/moar-1.jpg)

That's the way I see it, SnarkyShark. Crying to who? The host of the imaginary sites, caused the ones named are not what was intended.

Great macros, ekimsal!

That is very interesting indeed! But I am not sure if this means that maxis is siphoning off custom meshers? Clue me in a bit here please.  Or are they opening the door for sharing? I am not as up on the Sims 2 technicalities.

I know the files types were changed when Sims 2 came out and that stand alone files could be made. This was not true with Sims 1...where the actual iff had to be extracted and altered. (yes I have been playing a long time...and still favor Sims 1) But I do try to keep current with the overall legalities, which apply equally to all versions.

I also saw the whole Securem things as a strategy to prevent or at least track, alterations. But then I see Ea getting cozy with TSR...just makes me wonder.

EA will not do anything about the issue until it affect their bottom line then who knows what will happen. In terms of Thoma's legal leg he doesn't have one else the little letter would have been written by his corporate attorneys for his business (not a fansite - Mod the Sims is a fansite- I don't have to pay sub fees for content or advice/tutorials) - in most cases he would be laughed out of court as he is claiming someone stole his pixels - especially since this is coming on the tail of one of his employees being accused of stealing a freesite creators pixels, and an employee/associate/ whatever possibly being linked to hacking MTS2's server- Any judge in any country would laugh his/her ass off and then wom him with a COC (contempt of court) charge for wasting their time since you know in a world with serial murders, drug dealers, gangsters, and terrorists they have much more important things to do than to deal with a whiner like him.

The simple fact is that custom content (most specifically free ) encourages people to play the game, filesharing encourages people to play the game (since most of us go ohh look at the pretties I found that will make your game so much more fun), the constant whining of paysite owners like Thomas or Peggy or Rose turns people away from the game. EA makes money as much as, if not more so from the freesite and filesharing community than they do from the paysite community because after some  people realize the poor quality of the pay stuff they go to a freesite and download the goodies  or start downloading the pay stuff they absolutely have to have off the Booty or SimsCave. Thomas is running scared because former subs like me are dropping like flies and he is probably hemorrhaging money out his ass.

If Thoma$$ runs a legitimate business, or is a sub division of a cooperation I would like to know:

1. Is it a publicly traded company and where can I find the financial statements.

2. Does he pay taxes on the income generated by TSR?

Thomass and friends have been extremely busy lately, trying to put out fires (that they started) right and left. Everyday, we hear of some new reprehensible thing they have done to try to confuse and manipulate. This seems desperate to me. Perhaps they are starting to feel the walls closing in, and the panic and anxiety attacks that result are driving them to these desperate measures.
Of course, I could be wrong, but I will take it as a good sign that T$R is in the midst of a nervous breakdown.

I haven't seen Rose or anyone like her complain about our site. Only Thoma$$ and T$R. So we're cutting into their finances? Good.

Sidhe, here's how it appears to me. The EULA ok's the use of EA's tools for non-commercial purposes, but it still owns the tools.  So I think if you make a recolor of one of their meshes, or clone one of their meshes to make a different mesh, what you'd own is the derivative product:  i.e., the 2 dimensional rendering of the recolor or new mesh.  The original mesh I think would be considered a tool.  So basically the artist hold copyright to the drawing only.

And the EULA is clear that these derivative products cannot be sold.  So even if DOT, let's say, happens to be right (which she isn't) that she "owns" and therefore can do whatever she wants with, her lamp mesh, the EULA forbids her from selling it.

Guys, have you seen the new TS3 EULA, (I don't know if it's been discussed here) Even though the commercial clause is gone, it's fileshare friendly..

4. In exchange for the right to use content contributed by other users through the Software, when you contribute content through the Software, you expressly grant to other users of the Software the non‐exclusive, perpetual, transferable, worldwide, irrevocable right to access and use, copy, modify, display, perform, and create and distribute derivative works from, your contributed
content in connection with the Software, and to distribute and otherwise communicate your contributed content as a component of works that they create using the Software, for example,
The Sims lots or The Sims videos, without further notice, attribution or compensation to you. You hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution under applicable
law with respect to EA’s and other players’ use and enjoyment of such content contributions in connection with the Software.

So I personally don't think TSR is going to have a leg to stand on in connection with TS3 either.. This is the original link to the most current version of the file in case anyone wants to check it out. http://na.llnet.eadownloads.ea.com/u/f/manuals/eula/en_US/sims3_physical+digital.pdf

I think that the difference is that sites like ATS, Holy Simoly,XM and Rose don't require you to register to d/l the free stuff on their site- Complaints are heard about money loss from people like Raon, Peggy and Thomass because you have to register to even d/l a free wallpaper or hair set- so they see the numbers e.g. 250 people downloaded this last week and now there are 5- Rose might not know how many people have downloaded her free items, tested them in game and said YUCK! and then headed over to GOS or MTS2.

Unless I misread something (which is possible, at work and my eyes are starting to get computer fried) The new EULA is cause for Rumz all around!  :D

Thank you for posting that, Saraswati - I hadn't seen it before. :-*

 :) yes its great to have that link handy! The only thing here is that the section 2 part 4 that you posted is only in regards to content acquired or uploaded through Sims Launcher. They seem to have a different section for each aspect of the game. Section 2 part A looks like it deals more with intellectual property rights. They also reference the software and all components of it. I believe this is the piece that will make paysites cry...but it might piss off free sites too.

"Except as expressly licensed to you herein, EA and its licensors, as
applicable, owns and reserves all right, title and interest in the Software, and all related data,
characters, themes, objects, storyline, images, photographs, graphics, animations, video, music,
text, and the associated copyrights, trademarks, moral rights and other intellectual property rights
therein. This License is limited to the intellectual property rights of EA and its licensors in the
Software and does not include any rights to other patents or intellectual property. Except to the
extent permitted under applicable law, you may not decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer or
created derivative works of the Software by any means whatsoever. You may not remove, alter, or
obscure any product identification, copyright, or other intellectual property notices in the
Software."

You're very welcome guys. :) It's highly useful running RYG/Prism because if I don't find it, one of my guys will. Someone needs to have a conversation with them about the work that Wes is intending to do (although it's been a while since I caught up on it, maybe Inge can enlighten us).. although I'm sure something similar was in the last EULA in relation to their ownership of the work.

But I was extremely interested to see that.. it actually puts into words how Sims files work practically. If your stuff gets shared or reused, shrug your damn shoulders and walk away. It's supposed to be shared.

Nope. Probably because they would have been sued and they would have been butt kicked, just as EA was...

Section 2 part A looks like part of a normal PC game EULA to me. Nothing new there, so I'm not worried.

The part Sarasvati linked is even more explicitly anti-paysite than the Sims 2 EULA. Okay, it doesn't say you can't sell files in the first place -- but it does say you have no right to those files whatsoever, and that once people have their grubby little hands on them, they can do whatever they bloody well please. Suck it, TSR.

Where did that letter come from?  If I'm gonna P&L I want to know a bit more about it.

Let's see. 

Thomas tries to get Pescado's internet access terminated.
Johan--if that's who it is--who had previously been polite, if somewhat skeptical is suddenly screaming and foaming at the mouth.
Emails begging people to renew long dormant subscriptions arrive.
The TSR email newsletter which they haven't bothered with in quite a while suddenly reappears.
Dot becomes teary-eyed and regretful.

Can you say kermitflailing?  I knew you could.

I think the ship is taking on water.  Perhaps Thomas will have to do with only one home now.  Sad.  (Snicker.)

You mean where it came to  ??? ? Cause it came from Thomass; says on the start and end of the letter.

In that case; if Pescado doesn't want to answer about the letter then let him be.
If he wanted to answer the 'where and who' about the letter he'd answer it back when Darqstar first asked it, on page 1.

That he typed it(the letturrr thommers wrote zo talentedly) himself I seriously doubt it, 'cause that would mean he drank up 5 bottles of rum(from the PMBD's secret stash top shelf). In that case, ARGH! to him for not sharing.

I also doubt it can be of any use but to him and maybe a mod or two. But in this line I may be mistaking, but whatever...  :-X

Watching him run around screaming is my entertainment for the week. Me thinks they're getting desperate?  :D

Is that the same EULA Pes posted awhile ago or is it a new one? I understood that it was just a teaser.

However I did find it interesting that they were addressing CC issues when word from the Creators camp was that it wasn't going to be possible. They were also addressing the importation of 3rd party copyrighted materials. Which I found even more interesting.

I haven't seen a reply in this thread to sidhe's question about Swedish anti-piracy law and how it affects T$R.  Seemed like a reasonable, possibly useful line of inquiry, but not one I can help with.  Someone who can help, please PM sidhe or something.

Huh? Is that letter an actual, serious attempt by someone to protect a business? Where is his lawyer? No one with more than one or two employees (is that not what TSR has, people employed to make custom content?) handles their own legal affairs, not even at the correspondence level. This must just be intended as an annoyance or attention-getter. Either that, or he's getting bad legal advice. Or ignoring sound legal advice...

I try to be kind and look at both sides in disputes. I'm currently unemployed. Having been a senior designer and developer for ages, I can bang out the pixel image stuff pretty quick with zero effort. Even though TSR's lousy $500 payouts wouldn't even get me a cheap apartment, let alone buy food or allow for a social life, I'd still step over cute toddlers and puppy dogs to earn that much a month right now. I can completely understand why TSR checks would be attractive to a certain demographic.

Of course, selling stuff for a game created by a company you are neither employed by nor contracted to  seems, to me, wrong on various levels (including, usually, legal ones). I also find it a little odd to often see what's obviously pictures of real clothing and home items slapped onto a mesh (sometimes lifted from Poser or a meshes-for-download site) and sold without consent on various paysites. I'm willing to bet no royalties are being paid out. Not anything in the realm of legal – not to mention lazy and unattractive (just my opinion: I prefer fully created, or at least well disguised real world textures, over photomeshed content). No one could get away with that in a real development company. Fans doing it for free; no big deal. Folks looking for money? Eh, no; that's not ok.

I'm not what you'd call an active sims community member, so I really not into All the dramaz!!11!! between TSR, their fellow paysites and the free creators. I'm simply annoyed that people, (who I assume are mostly, if not all, not professional content developers therefore maybe ignorant of protocol – but that's not an excuse), are selling, at beyond reasonable price, content created, in many cases with images, logos and sometimes meshes they haven't purchased usage rights to, for a game they have no connection with beyond fandom. Weird, legally shady and really tactless.

As to the EULA, my understanding in these situations has always been that if you make content derived from any aspect of a company or individuals property, be that software, images or code, you must purchase the right to do so from the original owner, especially if you intend to sell your work! Hence, you can't grab images from Corbis and start selling posters you designed with them, you can't build a custom level to a pre-existing game and sell it on your website and you can't take parts of a computer game, slap your own texture on it or add your own mesh with their code and sell that either. If you have a screen shot, a video, a sim posted anywhere well, EA owns it, right? It's based on their intellectual property and subject to their rules for use in any way they see fit. Or is the situation different with sims, because I'd be surprised.

The issue is that most people who work for TSR  are not professional legally in terms of working for EA or ethically and morally.

You will find the truly professional ones and the truly creative content creators  like Adele, HugeLunatic, Nouk, and Agustin working for nothing on freesites because they see it as a hobby and something they enjoy.

Thomas and his crew by no means can be construed as professional at anything Professionals don't rip off other professionals, professionals don't hack other professionals systems or condone it being done, and as you pointed out Professionals let their Legal Professionals handle stuff like this, Professionals don't make excuses or have their little brothers do their dirty work (at least not ethical professionals.) - Thomas has being doing this for years- since at least 2006 if not earlier so this is nothing new.

Unless they're getting contracted by EA to create for the Sims 2, no-one can call themselves a professional. As for acting professional... I'm pretty sure ripping other people off is not acting professional.
Neither is starting a cult with Kierra. :D

Well, normally, these things are just thrown around as intimidation material to webhosts, so the bar is slightly lower.

I wonder if it has anything to do with this:

http://www.quantcast.com/thesimsresource.com (http://www.quantcast.com/thesimsresource.com)

As compared to this:

http://www.quantcast.com/modthesims2.com (http://www.quantcast.com/modthesims2.com)


Interesting trend in traffic there...  ;D

That's a very interesting comparison, nihil. TSR's traffic is much lower, and the number of visits plummeted in mid-February. MTS2's dipped then too, but they recovered quickly.

What this shows is that if EA wants better customer relations, it should reach out to MTS2. A far higher percentage of Sims 2 players are interested in MTS2 than in TSR. TSR is a large site, but its claims to be the "largest" "fansite" are lies on both counts, since MTS2 has far more visitors, and since TSR is a business, not a fansite.

So how does TSR figure they're the largest sims 2 community out there? And how do they figure, with no tools to their name, no accomplishments that helped the community to their name, nothing beneficial to the fan community at all... that they can decide that a huge part of the community (anyone who thinks sims2 custom content should be free) should be cast out and do not belong?

Totally! They use all the tools of free sites to make their "business".  Kiss my grits!!

I just read the EULA and can't for the life of me work out how anyone figures it's ok to make money off their creations?! Am I missing something? It looks very straightforward to me...

I can't help but wonder whether or not Thoma$$ has surrounded himself with so many yesmen and groupies that he has no one that will actually be willing to step up and say, "Hey man, you might want to at least proofread that letter a little bit."  Or even better, "Hey man, DON'T DO THIS, they'll know you made this shit up."  It is his own delusion and refusion to hear different opinions that will ultimately do him in.

I had the impression that atwa handled the bulk of work when it came to attempts at censoring the internet by having anything unflattering about TSR removed. Of course, Thomass claims she's no longer a part of TSR (because most of the people there hate her), but, since it is Thomass we're talking about, that's more than likely a lie and atwa could very well be responsible for the letter.

It just sounds like someone pretending to be something they're not. An atwa specialty.

Visits plummeted then because people were expecting TS3. When TS3 failed to materialize, people got bored and returned, but those who left are disinclined to resubscribe again, especially with a recession on. MTS2 is free, so isn't affected by such concerns.

TSR says they are the largest fansite based off of 3 things.
1. They say they are the oldest fan site out there.
2. They say they have the most members of any sims site out there.
3. They say they have the most downloads of any sims site out there.

I dunno, maybe Thomas just feels twarted one too many times. Maybe our disillusional miscreantitude has finally driven him over the edge. Maybe he's at the Twat's pad smokin junk in a hookah while she does the dance of the seven veils to Jefferson Airplane. Maybe there really is a lamp law. At this point anything seems possible.

But they definitely seem to be unravelling. That's fer sure.

The hilarious thing about this particular legal threat is how horribly misdirected it is. Not only is it factually incorrect in numerous places, IT IS NOT EVEN DIRECTED AT THE RIGHT COMPANY! The Princess is in another castle!

Well, that was a picture I DO NOT WANT.

There really is a lamp law. I looked it up. As far as I could tell, it didn't apply to Sims.

Well wasn't mid February when mts2 had their server crash?  Would explain it.

And I think pretending to be something they aren't is a specialty of most of the tsr 'staff'

I was thinking the same thing. Sarafina ninja'd me. ;)

 :'(  holy crap, now I need brain-bleach to get that nightmare out of my skull   :'(


all you kiddies, THIS is Jefferson Airplane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1cfTMdjkYM)
and remember kids, your mom & dad got their freak on to this music  :D

D: Not cool man!

  I was looking for an excuse to drink, and I just found one :o

No they didn't my Dad died before it was out and my Mom hated it.  I was the one who got their freak to that music and I'm proud of it.

I'm 32 30. Not exactly a kid :P. My mom and dad definitely got their freak on to that music though. I grew up on it.

Vision of Pescado in a blonde wig, chomping a cigar.

Brain bleach.

 ;D

I'm 42 + 1, so I remember it while growing up. My older siblings were the ones to freak to that stuff.

My parents were still 6es when they were popular, so I sure as hell hope they weren't getting their freak on.

Dude! Lawyers cost money. Hire lawyers and the second house you buy may not have top of the line crap in it.

Yes.  I don't need the actual email address, just the overview of events.  Sorry if this is not on-message but I can't form an opinion on a "because I say so" basis with too many jigsaw pieces missing.   For example, I know it didn't get to Pescado direct from TSR by email because that would have been physically impossible as they don't know his email address.

This is the most recent EULA posted about a week ago.. for the first time they did a combined disk/digital one.. :)

1. They say it, but they stopped being a fansite long ago. From their own admission, they're a business.
2. They say it, but the site is like Hotel California where you can never leave. Most sites prune inactive and double accounts.
3. They say it, but no-one is allowed to delete their stuff. Stuff just stays there untill the skies fall down.
Too bad it takes new people some time before people find that out, and they are unable to cut ties with that site if they wish to.

These things are typically forwarded by webhosts or through the domain contact.

Doesn't it seem that his greatest weakness is what he claims to be his strength? (meaning TSR) If they are a legitimate business they must adhere to international and/or Swedish cooperate law. It does not seem like that is the case. If everyone is so upset by his actions why don't you just seek to have him closed down? Am I missing something here?

It seems to me that for years file sharers have been running scared, hiding in caves and referring to themselves as pirates. But nothing could be farther from the truth. You are not stealing anything so you are not pirates. You are not duplicating software, cracking exe files or creating ISO's. So why again is the pressure on us?

He claims to be a subdivision of a company I can find no data on. I find no record of paid taxes or financial statements. I cant even find a business license or registration and the TSR website is not W3C verified. Its not digitally signed and does not even display proper contact information as a business site must.There is absolutely no evidence that TSR is anything more than a very large fansite that breaks the law by redistributing copyrighted files that are extracted or derived from a Maxis game for profit.

Their only saving grace has been that Maxis does not press charges. But neither did they relinquish their own copyrights, so I think by the new laws in Sweden...he could be shut down if someone reported him.

My god, I would pay to look at the face of any lawyer who's submitted the Ultimate Legal Proof of TSR Rights, read, plz in the title.

See, that's the thing: EAxis refuses to give up any rights, leaving TSR with nothing, while the EAxis EULA explicitly permits our activities here. Even if they were to try to change the system in the future, it wouldn't matter. That's just the sort of thing that provides the evolutionary pressure to become more efficient and even more obnoxious.

Am I having a special bubble-head moment or did Thomas spell his own name wrong in his threat?

This is how his name is spelled in the threat

Sincerely,
Thomas Isaksson
The Sims Reource


and on the site it is spelled Isacsson

Not to be the killjoy, but I think misspellings are often due to the use of translators. If he is Swedish he may be using one to convert his letter before sending them to a English based recipient. Does anyone know what his first language is?

I'd imagine swedish.

He is Swedish but speaks and types english very well. He does not use a translator. No matter the language or tool used, one should know when their own name is spelled wrong.

To basically echo what De has said, Thomass generally uses English. You can tell from coconut's screenshots, paleo's e-mails, and his new reports he puts up on TSR that he proficient enough in English, and should know how to spell his own websites name.

So, why would his own name be spelled wrong in an email? 

I can't imagine someone pretending to be him.  If you're going to pretend to be someone else, the first thing you're going to do is make sure you spell the person who you are imitating name correctly.   No one is that stupid.

So, I see only one of two possibilities.  1: Thomas wrote the letter, but wants us (or other people) to think it's faked.  Why?  So they can use it to prove we're stupid.  "Look potential customer, they have a letter up that they claim we wrote, but my name is even spelled wrong!  How can you believe Coconut when these people are so stupid that they would believe I would send them a letter with my name spelled wrong!"

2: Thomas uses Isacsson on the site, because it looks more "Statesider " and the majority of his users do come from the USA, but his legal name is spelled Isaksson.  And yaknow, that was such a professional letter, he'd want to make sure to sign it with his 100% legal name.

I'm leaning towards #2, actually.




Okay, this makes it look like a witch hunt.  I'm sorry, but I have to use logic. Why the hell would someone who lives in Sweden, NOT do his business in Sweden?  Why should they put their web page in the USA? 

If we start finding them evil in every single thing they do, even down to having the nerve to have their servers in their own country, then we look like we're going on a witch hunt, determined that every single thing they do is for some evil purpose.  If they lived in Canada, and had a Swedish host, I'd say you had something there.  But they live in Sweden, they have a Swedish host.  There's nothing sinister about that. 

I find this line to be the most interesting in his letter. It implies the exact opposite of what he wants. In itself it implies that Pescado has a defensible position. He says Pescado is defending the EULA, thereby validating that he knows exactly what the EULA says, and instead is just saying let EA defend themself. I know the next couple of sentences try to negate that, but it isn't the first time he contradicted himself in correspondence.

I will disagree with that last sentence, Darq. There is something sinister in every damn thing that TSR does...

And lawyers will sometimes point out you don't have a leg to stand on.

BTW, somebody just pointed out on another board that Thoma$$ not only cannot spell the name of his site, but he can't spell his own surname.  Now, I realize the man is an idiot, but that strikes me as unlikely.  Is it possible that the letter was sent by a troll pretending to be Thoma$$?

Well I think it's a fake.  Someone playing silly games.

Coconut recently noticed that Tomas keeps misspelling his name.

http://tsr.mustbedestroyed.org/?page_id=358

On everything official he spells Isaksson, it is spelled that way on the MTS2 attempts to lure helga and bruno, it is also Isaksson on the fansite list on BBS.

Maybe they've been hacked.

Maybe they've been bought out by Walt, but this time instead of coming out in a fanfare, he's decided it's easier to go on pretending he's still the old owners.

As some one said earlier, I think he tries to "Americanize" is with the "c" instead of the "k" which is the legal way he spells it. If it were me, I'd spell it the way it should be spelled legally instead of trying to making it more "hip".

For one thing I don't think that Thomas is as stupid as some people would like to think, if he is misspelling his name, then he is doing it for a reason, what that reason is? Is anyone’s guess. Maybe so when we p & l at him then he can say "It is a fake, look even my name is spelt wrong".

Maybe he's a blathering/blithering idiot that doesn't even know how to wipe his own nose when he sneezes, too...

I have to agree that he may want to make it seem more American. A fair amount of people who move to the US do that. When my great grandfather moved to the US and was old enough to change his last name, he changed it to make it more American-Italian, rather than just Italian.

He's lucky, when my great-grandparents came here, both sets, their last names got changed without their permission in order to sound more "American." What's wrong with Christiansen or Fredericksen? If Thomass were to immigrate here to the states, I know pretty much what he would be called. "Roadkill." :D

Hahahahaha.  That was the worst "legal" letter I have ever read.  Whoever wrote it was trying very hard to sound like they know what they are talking about.  Next time they need to do a little research before they try to threaten someone.

That's most likely. I found a cached google page (http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:yyINpjqsFXcJ:swedishdesigner.elance.com/+%22ibibi+ab%22&cd=20&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) which refers to "Jan Isaakson" as a personal reference from TSR.

That's what I figured too.  As much as I'd like to see TSR be stopped, I won't stoop to finding demons where there are none.  There is plenty of guilt for them, we don't need to find stuff where there isn't. 

That could be 'Johan'. My feelings are they are all the same guy. Is there such a thing as a 'professional schizophrenic'? :D

Could just be Jan is short form of Johan.  And yeah, my mother's father's name was americanized - oddly, my fathers birth and adopted names weren't, but then they'd been here for a century or three.

or Isakson (or whatever myriad of spellings there are) is just an assumed name.  Or maybe a professional name.  Maybe his real last name isn't that at all...but to be more appealing to the unwitting Sims fan, he uses something that's easy to pronounce...Just a thought

*goes back to lurking*

I think it's real and the confusion is just from translational issues. It's hard to kiss EA's butt without being real.

Okay, so he knows how to spell his own name.  It still doesn't explain why he can't spell his company's name.

All I can see while reading through that was "BAHHHH! DEY MEANIES! MAEK EM STOP!"

So many contradictions, misspellings, and lies. 

Also, I am sure many of us were against paysites and didn't need Pes to 'brainwash' us, as they so believe.  I hated paysites before I found this place, and ended up finding this place.  Not because I do not wish to pay for their items and want them for free (Because even if they were free, they would NOT find a place in my game, too icky) but because it is illegal to sell the content, and theft.

FYI - all of my PayPal receipts for my (now-canceled) subscription were to "AB Jan Isacsson".

Though Jan and Johan have different pet-form names (Jannik/Janne), they are both modern-standard derivatives of the name Johannes.

The surname confusion is most definately translational, as Isak(sson) is the Swedish standard spelling of the Anglicised Isaac(son).

Sorry, I wasn't trying to demonize anything by pointing out the damn man spelled his own name wrong or different. Jan is Johan's and Thomas' father.

This explains a lot about Thomas's behavior.

Thats actually kind of interesting. I'm surprised they don't use that fact to advertise themselves as a "wholesome family-oriented business. As for the threat, I've never seen a "professional" letter made of so much fail. Its full of typos, contadicting ideas, and lolness.

They apparently aren't just raking in the kronor from TSR. I did a little digging, and have found another Swedish company called HemsidaDirekt (Homepage Direct) run by the TSR crew. This is probably public knowledge and I am out of the loop, but I found that this site lists their staff roster (I've translated to the side):

Jan Isaksson - VD (CEO)
Thomas Isaksson - Art Director
Johan Isaksson - Systemansvarig (Systems Operator)

And this company's address is listed as :

HemsidaDirekt (Homepage Direct)
Generatorhallen, Kungsgatan 3 (The Generator Hall, 3 King's street)
826 30 Söderhamn

...which is the same address as Ibibi AB, or TSR. So, I would assume the family operates quite a few money makers.

Edited to remove names not already stated in this thread

Interesting.

My guess is that daddy set up his little boys with their own web based business.

Edit- Removed link. Who the hell knows what they put on that site.

I knew there had to be a Jan at the bottom of it. There always is, remember?

Even if this is posted publically on the website, let them decide if they want to post their names publically on their site. I would delete it and just link over there.

Seems the little boys have a sister too.

I think that's the wife, actually.

More than that, it seems the family is active on a board called the "Round Table". I wonder if this committee knows that they are earning profits by illegally selling copyrighted material from the United Sates. Maxis may not care, it suits their own needs up to a point, but a board of fellow professionals might not be so amused....

Um, I really don't see how anything the Isaksson family may or may not be doing outside of TSR or the TS2 community is really any of our business. I think you should back off.

But isn't it like when TSR share personal details of so called pirates etc (that paypal fandango). Same kind of concept to my eyes.

Just a thought mind you, but I had read somewhere here on the boards that Steve owned or was a part of MGON, a gamers board, forum, can't remember exactly what it was except it was active during Sims 1. I know he was a part of both TSR and MGON as MGON was out of Britain. MGON focused on many games, not just the Sims. Whatever happened to MGON? Was it bought out?

I wonder how other online businesses would view TSR's antics. Not encoding personal information so that any Tom, Dick or Harry with Admin access could view it, selling copyrighted material that they do not hold the copyright to unless they have a legally binding letter from the copyright holder to do so, stealing another creator's work and putting their name on it, and sharing of personal information (private forum or no) among those who do not need to know that information.

These are just thoughts running around in my head at the moment. I do agree that unless this "Round Table" group is somehow connected to TSR, we should leave it alone.

The issue is that according to the letter of the EULA we are morally and legally right on the paysite issue. If PMBD as a group uses the same lowdown, dirty, underhanded tactics that TSR and other paysite owners have used to discredit PMBD, Free Creators, and Freesite Owners- than we lose credibility because these actions would make us look just as bad as the paysites do. Hence why we leave information like this alone- Its not our business how Thomass and his family earn the rest of the money- the point of this site is to stop him and other paysite owners from making the money they make illegally off a copyrighted game. The more actions that Thomass takes  against Pescado, the more he condones theft, and hacking,- the more he makes himself look like an idiot in the eyes of Sims 2 gamers.

The only action that should be taken on this issue is to continue putting the truth out there and continue to let Thomass and his fellow paysite owners look like arses everytime they respond with threats, excuses and juvenile or illegal behavior. The point is we don't need to do anything that low to make most paysite owners look bad- which they do because most of them refuse to recognize the fact that U.S copyright law does not A. Cover uncopyrighted  pixels (sorry DOT unless you go down to a lawyer and file a copyright application on your lamps- which would be laughed at at the U.S copyright office- you have no legal say on what happens to your " shapes" after your friendly TSR customer buys them) , and B. Only recognizes EA's right to those pixels and everything else Sims related. So just sit back, relax and let them continue to make morons of themselves.

Yes but do you really want to sink to their level? I know I don't want to ever see PMBD get the rap that TSR has gotten, so it's best to take the high road and leave it.

I didn't say we should, I simply pointed out it's the same concept.

Doesn't matter if it's the same concept or not. We don't need to step into that territory. I'm just saying that I agree with ken and we need to just leave it.

It also makes it look like we're so out for revenge that we don't care where we'll get it from, that we'll try to dig up information outside of the issue at hand just to make them look bad.  

It would be like being in court for stealing and suddenly the DA looks and said, "Yes or no, have you stopped beating your wife?"  First, no matter how you answer it, you look like an asshole, second, even if you are a wife beater, that has absolutely nothing to do with if you stole something.  

And to head it off at the pass, there have been times when personal issues of members of TSR have had personal issues talked about, such as pictures Atwa has taken of herself as a way of drawing attention to herself.  In that case, it's as  if you sit down in the witness chair at your trial for stealing, and say, "Can you hurry it up?  I have to get home and beat my wife," then you've just made it public knowledge to everyone in the court room.  While they can't use it as evidence for the stealing case, you will not stop the jury and the DA from judging you as a thief who beats their wife, and discussing it among themselves either.  

Yeah, which is why we shouldn't do it.  Just because someone does something wrong and immoral does not give us the right to do the same thing.  I don't know about you, but I am better than Thomas, and I want to stay that way.

(Emphasis added by me)

I think I've just found my new motto, for when I'm in a situation when I'm forced to do something that goes against my grain.  "At least I'm better than Thomas and I want to stay that way!"

As I recall, MGon just disappeared one day.  All the communities on other games were just removed from the servers and everything was dedicated to the Sims.  Not long afterward they went pay the same way.  One day free, next day pay.  Steve said it was out of his hands, and he hadn't liked the idea.  He gave the :we just bought 4 more servers for the next (Sims 1) EP and advertising revenue isn't paying for them" excuse as the reason.

However, there are others who may remember in more detail.

Too true.    Remeber...what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

We ARE better than that scum Thoma$$.

Between that and the reason you use when things are going wrong or are off, I think you are covered:

Why did the car just die like that?  Because Atwa is crazy.

You want me to lie to the customer?  At least I am better than Thomas and I want to stay that way!

Company info from http://www.foretagarna.se/

Ibibi AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foretagarna.se%2Ftemplates%2FUCViewCompany____54435.aspx%3FCompanyId%3D556652-8054&sl=sv&tl=en) via Google translate
... Ibibi AB (http://www.foretagarna.se/templates/UCViewCompany____54435.aspx?CompanyId=556652-8054) original
Odd Job Media AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foretagarna.se%2Ftemplates%2FUCViewCompany____54435.aspx%3FCompanyId%3D556223-4467&sl=sv&tl=en) via Google translate
... Odd Job Media AB (http://www.foretagarna.se/templates/UCViewCompany____54435.aspx?CompanyId=556223-4467) original

The net sales numbers are off in the translated versions, they should be multiplied with a THOUSAND (tkr = tusen kronor, thousands of kronor). The 'unsubscribe' written in red on the Ibibi AB info page stands for 'avregistrerat' which in turn is 'unregistered' which means that they have no current business activities.

Odd Job AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oddjob.se%2F&sl=sv&tl=en) site via Google translate.

Employees include:
Jan Isacsson, Art Director/Projektledare
Johan Isacsson, Programmering
Thomas Isacsson, Art Director/HTML/CSS

Why do I get this feeling that they are not making 4,672,000 kronor / 564,814.47 USD per year just by slapping together some html and fiddling with MySQL?

Edit: this from www.riksdelen.se

Odd Job Media AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.riksdelen.se%2Fforetag%2F488387%2Fodd-job-media-ab%2Fekonomisk-information.aspx&sl=sv&tl=en) (Google)
... Odd Job Media AB (http://www.riksdelen.se/foretag/488387/odd-job-media-ab/ekonomisk-information.aspx) (original)

So Odd Job Media AB swallowed Ibibi AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.riksdelen.se%2Fforetag%2F493746%2Fibibi%2Bab%2Fekonomisk-information.aspx&sl=sv&tl=en)?
Juridiskt namn: Odd job KB

More & more detailed info from another site, www.ratsit.se

Ibibi AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ratsit.se%2F5566528054&sl=sv&tl=en) via Google translate
... Ibibi AB (http://www.ratsit.se/5566528054) original
Odd Job AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ratsit.se%2F5562234467&sl=sv&tl=en) via Google translate
... Odd Job AB (http://www.ratsit.se/5562234467) original

"... owning and managing real estate and securities ..." such as ThomASS' second home? ::)

Here's Steve Bonham AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ratsit.se%2F5567039424&sl=sv&tl=en) (Google) / Steve Bonham AB (http://www.ratsit.se/5567039424) (original) at Ratsit and Steve Bonham AB (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foretagarna.se%2Ftemplates%2FUCViewCompany____54435.aspx%3FCompanyId%3D556703-9424&sl=sv&tl=en) (Google) / Steve Bonham AB (http://www.foretagarna.se/templates/UCViewCompany____54435.aspx?CompanyId=556703-9424) (original) at Företagarna

While entertaining, I see nothing legal or professional about this threat.

Just more of the same.  EA has the 'do whatever the hell you like' policy, as long as it keeps the money rolling in.

You'd think TSR would realize the more noise they make, the more potential damage they are doing to themselves with all this nonsense.
If TSR becomes a squeaky enough wheel in the ears of the right people, EA may be forced to drop their 'partnership'.
Eh, one could dream.

That will happen only if TSR is enough of a squeaky wheel to cause EA to lose massive amounts of money. This is why we don't ever want to lower ourselves to the level they do because when EA finally decides to throw a shitfit we want TSR to be their targets not the freesite owners, freesite creators, or PMBD. Let them make their own bed while we stand back and laugh.

After wading through endless pages, it seems to me (and excuse me if I'm stating the obvious), that TSR and Thomas must be in a world of hurt if he is taking this much effort to discredit anyone and everyone.  Especially for a "business/fansite" as "large" as TSR is purportedly to be.  One would think that he would just let all the accusations roll off his back (like any REAL business probably would).  I guess, my question to him would be, "Why does all this hubbub bother you, if you can prove that you are in the right?"  Now, obviously, restating myself, there has some questions about the legality and business practices of TSR and Thomas with his narrow-eyed interest on this site and others.

I hope I made sense.

TSR is the one violating the EULA and the law. TSR and paysites like it are the ones who have made the Sims community into the ridiculous mess it is now. No matter how "mean" we get here, we'll always be above that pack of con artists.

True- But we remain better than them by not pulling the same shit they(other than being mean which many of us have a perfect right to do) - e.g. publishing Thomass and the other Isaak(C)sons non-TSR related business info, or looking into aspects of their lives that have nothing to do with their running a Sims2 Paysite- Who Thomass is screwing and where he lives, or how much money he makes from non-TSR related activities aren't our business anymore than it is the business of paysite idiots like him to know how much money freesite owners make, or who they sleep with, or where they live (though some paysite owners certainly feel that they have a right to that information when it comes to freesite owners and creators) .

I think the fact that we are even disscussing the ethical merits of this at all, shows that we will not stoop to their level. I mean, can anyone here even imagine that there has ever been a disscusion of ethics like this over at T$R? They're all too busy agreeing with each other.

I think we must pick our battles. We need to stay on message. We are here to educate and inform. I believe it is the most effective method for giving T$R moar butthurt. To go after everything and anything just on the principle that we don't like them only makes us look like 12's.

And that message is:

SHAKESHAFT IS A THIEF

and

THOMAS KNOWS YOUR PASSWORDS


*notice my font size restraint*

I agree.  However, I was asking about Swedish anti-piracy laws and how they relate to TSR because if they did happen to be in violation of them, that could be something else to tell folks, in addition to TSR being in violation of the EA EULA.  I was curious about whether TSR pays business taxes because they claim to be a legitimate business.  If they do pay them, that supports the position that they are a business, in it for profit, not a fansite.  If they don't pay taxes but should, that undermines their claim to be a legitimate business and adds to their shadiness.  In either case, that's also something to tell the public about.  If TSR were evading taxes, which I'm not saying they are, it wouldn't hurt to make a report to the appropriate Swedish agency.  Maybe they're exempt from business tax, I don't know.  I'm not making any claims right now, I just think it's something worth knowing.  I agree with those who said that the Isaksson family's non-TSR related business ventures are not something for us to be looking into.

kenmtl Not just Thomas, but any staff member who has access to their unencrypted user passwords.  I believe Delphy said they told him they would be encrypting those in the future.  Well, let's hold them to that.  Let's demand they tell their users that they have encrypted the passwords.  That will let people know that passwords were not encrypted previously.  If they don't make an announcement about encrypted passwords, let's keep asking about it, and say "Are passwords still unencrypted and thus not secure?".

Huh, this legal threat is much better than the last one they sent. Thomas actually signed his own name instead of sending it in the guise of 'NO NAME GIVEN'. That shows improvement, I really mean that. They've learned that anonymous legal threats have little effect aside from raucous laughter but until they realize that the point of sending legal threats makes little sense when there's no actual law backing them up, they will continue to do nothing but provide comical entertainment.

This makes me wonder.  All we have right now is Thomas's promise  that they are going to encrypt them.  But how do we verify that, other than Thomas saying "Yep, they're encrypted now".  I mean, I wouldn't expect them to make an offical announcement on the site because that would be admitting to the sheeple that they weren't secure in the first place.  And yeah, he could tell Delphy or someone else, but that's basically still just his word.

*chortle*
Ah, good old <NO NAME GIVEN>. That was quite the gut-buster. Not that Toma$$'s name is much better, except it's the kind of laughter that makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

SHAKESHAFT IS A THIEF!

THOMASS HAS NEITHER MORALS NOR ETHICS!!

I CAN USE FONT CONTROLS!!

Sorry, I've been resisting the urge for too damn long and had to let it out.  ;D

You go girl!!

I agree with you. You're just looking for stuff to use against TSR, which is good.

http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/en/06/st08/st08866.en06.pdf This is the law that the Swedish anti-piracy law is based on. Use the information well. ;)

There's no legal backup to anything TSR's doing until/unless they get a signed agreement with EA to act as a third party distributor for content. IMO, not gonna happen. What gets me is how they're trying to be two sites at once; a fansite and an online retailer. It doesn't work like that. I'm a tad awed to learn this has carried on for years without fatally imploding yet. That said, their businesses apart from TSR are pretty irrelevant to this situation, at least from what I can see so far. Isn't the larger fuss about various pay creators holding pixels hostage for MONIES across the fandom, not just one big subsite of a family web company selling junk, even if they are the biggest of the offenders?  Looking for legal ways of shutting them down is well and good, I guess, but doesn't solve the core issue, that selling Sims cc is not so great.

The current flurry of activity points one direction - might be hard times coming at TSR. Sims 3 doesn't look to hold much in the way of download profits from custom content in the initial months. They don't make their own tools, correct? That means they'll have to wait for non-affiliated folks to find ways to import cc. (Anything provided by EA will be very basic, created thusly so anyone, regardless of skill, can use it to make simple changes. I don't count that as a true development tool.) They need to limit any bad publicity or irritation when they expect folks to pay for the privilege of downloading poorly-tiling textures to floodfill ugly Sims 3 meshes with, 'cause there's a good chance that's where a sizable chunk of their profits are going for at least a few months.

Ironically, the looming Sims 3 drought could press some worried FAs to consider 'shortcuts' – like the theft being discussed elsewhere – to grab as much as they can before the great Sims 3 migration among TSR's core audience of kiddies begins. A site like theirs is in more danger of a usage dropoff from must-have-the-latest-version! syndrome than the free sites long time fans prefer.

TSR is a sinking ship- although they have some FA's like Windkeeper and Anoeska that create mods for the game - they have never gone beyond creating OMSP's. The majority of the creators/modders that have come up with the mods/hacks. and programs that enable us to run Sims 2 better, and that fix EA's fail state work for and/or own freesites  and given the behavior of TSR and other paysites towards these programmers and mod creators  I highly doubt anyone will be quick to say- Okey dokey Thomass you want my help finding a way to put your floodfilled ugly in TS3 - I will help you lets group hug

Also given that initially no one will be able to do anything possibly except do re-colors of existing objects and meshes, or to add new patterns to the game- People will not want to pay TSR 30$ every two months to do that when the Sims 3 Exchange will be free (at this moment anyways) for anyone who registers for it- and they will get the same six badly designed lots and ugly outfits that the TSR FA's will throw up on TSR as soon as the game comes out.

Can I make legal threats? Maybe not, but I got a shock when I logged in @ T$R and found 2 of my lots I created and shared in 2007 (didn't know better) are for subscription only. I haven't had a sub their since 2007, and the lots are made with free stuff only from creators that want their items shared free.

They are not all that pretty! Just started making lots that was interesting at the time and when I look at them now, they are measley.

I just found out the kudos can be used for a free day of downloading on the site and have been getting stuff that's new from the FA's.  After that I plan on writing the admins and ask for my files and account get deleted. I doubt they will do, but I feel like I screwed some great free creators, a couple that are my friends.  :-[  I have never wanted to be a FA or SA. Just uploaded some lots.

I really don't know where, but can I contribute?  I don't have much, but just want to join in as my signature states.

I doubt they'll encrypt anything or admit anything.  I was trying to say we keep bringing this up in public forums, shame TSR publicly, show people that their passwords were unencrypted.  Keep asking "So when are you going to encrypt them?".

They have non-FA stuff that's subscription only? I did not know that.

Forgive my Paint.net skills. I have none.


(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c278/mailchaser40/A%20sim%20man%20house/Untitled.png)


I circled the subscriber, cause at the moment everything is open to me by using my kudos today.  I think they were desperate.  :P

So, you wouldn't even be able to download your own items if you wanted to (except for the free sub day)?

First thing I would do is to write them saying that you as the creator would like your content to remain free.  Then say the lots contain items from other creators that also want their content to remain free. Considering how religiously they're clinging to that Maxoid's statement that creators have the right to decide how their content gets shared, they really have no choice in the matter. Unless of course they're absolutely and completely full of shit and have no intention of honouring those ideals on their own site. Which would be my guess.

Throw the ball at them and see if they catch it. 

Whatcha gonna do there Tommyboy, we'll be watching this one.

I do like those houses, lewisb. And yeah, what kenmtl said.

I will be writing a letter as soon as I finish using my "free day".  Don't know if that will put me on watch, but I really want to contribute.  I just don't know how, I don't have monies now, but I want to give back to the community that I have taken from and love.  :)


Right! I wasn't. I really lulz!

EDIT: Found what to do. I looked right over it. duh

I think they usually only put non-FA stuff on subscriber if you've used FA content in the lot.. Correct me if I'm wrong here?

lewisb Do point out that as the creator you want your stuff to be free.  However, TSR will probably tell you that you uploaded stuff on their site after aggreeing to their terms of use (they can do whatever the hell they want with your stuff).  So to counter that, tell them that the lots also contain items from other free creators, and those creators did NOT agree to TSR's terms.  I assume that last bit is correct, these were non-TSR creators?  Thank you for showing us what TSR did with your lots.  My guess is if something free is pretty and popular, they make it pay.

That's the thing, I didn't use T$R stuff on the first lot. The second lot had a terrain by cyclonesue that was free and in the content comments she said upload with lots and use as you like.  I am always careful like that.

Oops, sorry nerianna, I missed your comment. Thanks so much.

Thanks CatOfWar, I will keep that in mind. :)

My step-mother is an executive at a very large company that investigates corporations for fraud, scams, copyright infringement, and many other things. I described to her what has been going on in the sims community. She is not familiar with the sims at all, so I told her all about the game and what custom content is, and what meshes and texture maps are. I showed her EA's EULA, and the screen shots from coconut, and a whole lot more. She's pretty smart, so she understood the situation quickly.

She pointed me to this:   http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/thomasPlea.pdf (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/thomasPlea.pdf)
and this:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fastlink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fastlink)

She said she'd search around for some more relevant links to send to us.
She also said she would consider taking it to her higher-ups if she finds enough precedents, like the ones in the links above. No guarantees though.
Still, the info on the goverment site is very encouraging to say the least.

And then I found this to be interesting, especially the flag and the fact that it is Sweden: 
(http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo20/paperbeth/Pro_piracy_demonstration.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pro_piracy_demonstration.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pro_piracy_demonstration.jpg)

And look at this:    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez#Legality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez#Legality)

*edited multiple times to add new stuff I found*

The bottom line is not a legal case; it's whether one's host is going to respond to the email (for whatever reason they read into it) by closing the hosting account, and/or whether one's ISP is going to to terminate one's internet access, perhaps just for an easy life.  So it does no good to discuss the academic merits of the legal threat, you just have to pick the right host or ISP, one who rolls their eyes at all the posturing and goes on taking your money and providing the service.

paperbeth: I would love to see TSR indicted for fraud or something along those lines. I'm sure they have partaken in enough shady activities to warrant it.

They really don't learn do they? "Lets have PMBD's host close their account, that'll solve everything!", epic fail. They got Coconut's blog taken down, only to see it be put back up on a different browser within 24 hours or less. Reflexsims forum, shut down by a T$R lackey, was up and running within a few days. Given those examples, you would think that they would stop the "whining to web hosts" tactic, as it obviously doesn't work.

But it does, at least for a bit.  Every time someone shuts them down, there is a wait for a new host to be found.  There is an annoyance factor too, because while the person is looking for a new place, that's probably less time they're working on taking down TSR.

It also is good PR for them. "Well look, Coconut MUST be full of it, because her journal is always in violation of terms and is canceled!"  Yes, we know that a lot of websites would rather lay down and die, then fight to protect their client's rights. 

The backfire though, with Coconut, is that TSR hunted her and hunted her until she came here, where she's got a lot more freedom.  Yes, that's a backfire on TSR, but again, it gives them credibility with their customers who are on the fence, but leaning towards them.  "Well, Coconut must be wrong, because she's been kicked off of all these sites!"  Notice how TSR has never mentioned in a public forum that they are single handedly responsible for getting Coconut off of every host she's been on.  Nope, they talk to their customers about her, as if she's a silly little annoyance.  "Oh, she's just an embittered baby who we wouldn't let be an FA, so she's having a temper tantrum about it!" is their attitude.  They try to make it sound like they can hardly be bothered.

Yet they were so not  bothered that they felt the need to follow her around and threaten every place she went with "legal action."  They were so not bothered that they even got Paleoanth shut down from Live Journal for posting nothing but a few messages.   Yeah, that's amazingly not bothered.

Some of these ISP's need to grow a spine and do some checking before they just delete.  Especially Livejournal.  It used to be that some kid could publish the name and phone number of another user, enouraging everyone to call this person and harass them, and the worst he got was suspended for a couple days, then bang, got his journal back.   And this happened several times.  Now it's like anyone can say, "Legal action!" and livejournal just deletes them.

I wish I had a server in the United States that I could put a mirror of Coconut's journal on, just so I could say, "Forgive me for taking so long to respond, but after reading your threat, I was too busy laughing my ass off to get back to you.  Good luck with your lawsuit!"   

I agree, the whining thing with Coconut worked; But this is Livejournal  we're talking about. They've gotten too popular for their own good and want to protect their reputation, kind of like T$R ;). I don't think  time would not be wasted working on taking down T$R if PMBD's host gave them the boot. PMBD has a lot more support behind it than does T$R, and that support extends outside of this forum. Forum or no, they will probably never prevent their files being shared. Music industry tried it, movie industry tried it, and they both failed. The same will happen to T$R, its really a matter of when they quit attacking others for it.

The problem with LJ is that they are no longer owned by the original company- they got bought by some corporation or other a couple of years ago and now rather than simply promoting social networking as they used to do- they are in it for the money- which means like TSR they are in it to protect their bottom line- which means that anything offensive to anyone is likely to be banned and or deleted because the mommies of all the kiddies that shouldn't have accounts are bitching about canceling paid memberships.

Everything is about money  :P Sometimes I wish things weren't. Things that are done just for money tends to suck real bad, big time.

Like for example... hmm... let me think... tsr? EA?

LJ doesn't totally suck yet- Many users threw shit fits after their communities and journals got shut down - there are more of us than their are non-users who raise heck about content - therefore more loss of money to LJ- so a lot of the censoring and stuff has slowed down- it is nowhere near as bad as Facebook, and MySpace got after they went all corporate - I have never had an account eithr place and don't want one.

Lucky that, if it's not too bad! I don't know about LJ since I've never spent much time there.  ;D

I have a Livejournal for my Sim stories, and though it's easy to use, I don't like it.
I've just never really liked the site.

Some have. There's an entire niche of ISPs that provide hardened targets for precisely that sort of reason. They're already included in contingency plans here.

"..has mounted an army of disillusioned miscreants..."

 >:(
I may be a miscreant, but I have not been disillusioned.

Really?  Are any of them HQ'ed in the USA?

I'm disillusioned with paysites and I can be a miscreant, so I kind of fit that description. ;D

Actually, Thomas uncannily chose the perfect word to describe what the majority of us have become in regards to paysites. Webster defines disillusioned as "to cause to lose naive faith or trust". I strongly suspect the word he actually meant was delusion, as in, "something that is falsely believed". However, in his failure to understand some pretty basic vocabulary, Thomas was accidentally honest with everyone. ;)

Freudian slip I imagine   ;)

Oh, is that what a psycho wears underneath their skirts? ;D

Whoops, I seem to have made the same mistake as Thoma$$. Never mind, I am quite disillusioned. (but not deluded.)
How ironic of him. That might be the first honest thing he's said in years.  ;D

Thomas, on the other hand, is completely deranged.

"Your customer has a startling lack of regard for authority...."

Tom says it like it's a bad thing.  I can't believe with all the money they're probably making they can't even afford a lawyer.  Legal threats from site admin are rarely threatening.

Do what you want cuz a pirate is free, YOU ARE A PIRATE! (http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/youareapirate.mp3)

That never gets old. Love it.

I am listening to it right now and it really is good.  Bookmarked.

Great, now I have a child playing at being a pirate... Jumping from the back of the couch, the top of the entertainment center and hollering, "YARRR! Gimme COOKIES!" Damn you, Pes, he's gonna be impossible to settle for a bit. Damn that curiosity of mine. :P

It's in my head now.  I can't get it out.  Gee THANKS Pes.  I don't know how I'll every repay you.  But I'll think of a way eventually.

Just smother him a bit. That tends to quiet them down nicely. No, they won't actually die from it if you stop when they start to become quiet.

No need for all that when you can dunk their pacifier in some brandy. It's what my dad did and I turned out JUST FINE! ;D

Bah! Just tie something around their face and tell people it's pig flu protection.

Hooooboy, now THAT song will be stuck in my head all day!  Thanks Pes!   :P lol

Nah, no need, he danced til he dropped. Besides, I don't use child abusive methods to get him to sleep, no matter the temptation.

Way to start a trend there, Kenmtl. I'm surprised that hasnt happened over here yet. My city had the first reported cases of swine flu in Massachusetts. People at my school (in another not yet infected city) were literally walking in the opposite direction of me because clearly when two 12 year old boys in my huge city has it that means I have it. ::)

Any advice on how to quiet difficult teenagers? 

Put some quarters, sand, and/or shot in a sock. Apply to back of head.

It didn't work,  it keeps falling off.   :P  Now I have that stupid commercial in my head.


HEADON! Apply directly to the forehead! HEADON! Apply directly to the forehead! HEADON! Apply directly to the forehead!

Maybe a kitteh would work better.
(http://bayimg.com/image/lapinaabh.jpg)

Quieting teens?? The mere suggestion of doing house work was enough to shut us up. All Dad had to say was, "The next one that says a word or gets out of hand, cleans the damn house." That phrase was good for a nice, quiet day any time of the week.

(http://cats.moreawesomethanyou.com/doingitwrong.jpg)

Awesome macro karu. That made my day.  :D

Send them on a lone camping trip in bear (or rattlesnake, depending on your locale) country. You can teach them how not to die if you're feeling generous.

The bible says you can stone rebellious teenagers. Then again, it says you can stone *everybody*...  Is that what Bob Dylan meant?

I think so, but when I was younger I did tend to prefer the "other" meaning to the phrase. :D

I'd like to post about a portion of the EULA

"You will not represent that your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors or that any other content on your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors."


Couldn't TSRs latest threat be deemed a violation of this portion of the EULA since they state :

"Despite this clarification, your customer continues his defamation. In short, EA states that our business model is NOT in violation of their EULA."



This may be somantics but isn't Thomas Isaksson saying that EA or their licensors are endorsing and/or approving of TSR and other paysites?

Uh, nope.

As much as TSR likes to hint at how cozy they are with EA, they actually haven't violated that clause.  If they claimed on the site they were a partner with EA or somehow officially endorsed or recognized by them, it would.  They skirt the line closely on that one with their talk of "access" and "inside info"  but generally fall on the side of legal.  And EA is really the only who could do anything about it anyway and as we've seen they generally choose to look the other way.  However, if the shit ever really hit the fan to the point where TSR's problems were causing major butthurt for EA, I would imagine EA would invoke that clause, claim that TSR is fansite and no way affilated with them.

Duct tape. Duct tape is like the Force. It has a Light Side, a Dark Side, and it holds the universe together.

(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4109/ductape.jpg)

You mean like this?

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1299/galdoor.jpg)

or to give them something better to do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMN9F4MHhAo