PMBD

So the fools at MTS2, failing to properly appreciate the Awesomeness that is the Babby Roaster, or maybe purely fearing that it will obviously win, have decided to cheat by excluding it from the ballot. Naturally, we can't have that! We shall run as a write-in! Get in there and rock the vote! (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=319408) Show them that merely trying to keep us off the ballot cannot deny us victory!

OMG, Pes, I tremble to disobey your command but that homework mod... My mouse clicked on it of its own accord, I swear I never touched it.

I voted before I sent you the PM about it, and mods would see that I've voted.  Stupid calalily should have saved her vote.

For Shame Cala!  SHAAAAME! 

Done.  They're being wussy about it, claiming that because it's hosted on another site it doesn't count.  I also decided to pitch the quality of the item too, because they can't argue that, it is a well made item.

I know.  :'( In all fairness I just figured it would be on the next poll, and then I ran out of clickety clicking. And I looked - you can't remove your vote - smf has spoilt me.

Posted my vote, long live the BabbyRoaster!

Done. Cause you know it's only a small step from banning baby roasters to blaming it all on the queers.They must be stopped.

Who can say no to a baby roaster?
The only reason it's not there is because everyone already knew it was the best.

I feel your pain and am just not voting at all.  Because i thought my baby bedding repository curtains were pretty awesome too.

"Stop Anarchy, Vote Baby Roaster!"

The votes were all deleted by Delphy. No fair.

And I've used the baby roaster at least 10 times so far. It was just what I needed.

Why were the comments deleted??!! It's not like anyone threatened to actually eat a baby. Shinanigans.

Geesh, what wussies.  No one was being rude or obnoxious about it. No one was even screaming PUT THIS ON NOW! We were merely expressing our opinions. 

Damn, I was going to ask if the jumparoo could be used to poach sim babies, but what would be the point now? -  >:( Anyway, it appears that only the actual comments were deleted so it's still quite apparent that the baby grillers have spoken.

I specifically looked for the baby roaster in the polls and was utterly amazed it wasn't there! I think there were about 4 submissions for wallpaper (one being mine, I was specifically encouraged by one of the mods to enter) and none of those made it either  :( Soggy and Pes.... I feel for ya  :'(

Has MTS2 been taking lessons from TSR??

Wellll.... to be perfectly honest, if the babbyroaster had been up, I'd have voted for something else. But now I can't! It's just the principle of the thing!  :P

I would have voted for the baby roaster. It's the only thing in that theme that I downloaded and it works great. Now when you want to get rid of a baby you just grill it then delete it from the family tree in SimPE.

Exactly what I said over at MATY! I absolutely detest TSR, and the day MTS2 turns into that site I am never looking back. What would have been so difficult about putting the babby roaster up on the vote and disabling the comments anyway? I mean, they already let him post the thing.

My guess was that they were deleted because they don't want folks trying to get something voted for that's not in the list.

Vote anyway! Show them that the will of the people cannot be denied! Even the deleted post still stands as a record of the original vote, and accomplishes exactly what they didn't want.

Ok if they don't want to put the roaster up for whatever reason, fine. But I can't believe they deleted all the posts. It's not like anyone was being attacked or anyone was being offensive. It was just innocent fun. I thought they would at least have a sense of humour about it. I always thought they were kinda lulzy and it's unfortunate to see that they actually kinda suck. Just because they can.

This is what I put down:


I wonder how long it will be there for?

I wanted to say more, but I didn't know what would be a deletion thing.

Edit: Because I fail at quoteing myself  ::)

Even more lulzy is the warnings given to those who vocalise support for our dear Babby Roaster.  :D

Somebody should go through all the other contest entries from every other contest and check to see if they were posted elsewhere and ask that they be disqualified too.

In a way though, the fact that it's not on there is giving it more attention.  If it was on and it lost, all the people running around in panic mode would be telling us, "See, we told you it was evil!  Thank god this community isn't all like you!" 

This way, it looks more like they didn't include it for fear it would have won.  And won't that put a gigantic hair up the butts of some of these people who are still whining about the baby roaster. 

I don't think it would be a travesty if the damn thing won, so what's the big deal?  It very well may be the best made...  Though I have to say, I really liked those slides.  But it's better made and more complicated than a majority of the items.  If you're going to have so many categories instead of just one short list of nominations, it seems pretty damn ridiculous to have a set of deco items like Phaenoh's in the modded objects category and leave out the roaster.  Not knocking the quality of the deco items, but they are just barely in the modded item category to begin with.  It's almost like they were put in that one just to make the category look "full enough" sans roaster.

I realize now that they meant that it was because it was an offsite link. I forgot. So I assume that nobody else does that. That still sounds like a pointless reason to exclude it. Sounds like a "we pulled this out of our asses" kind of rule.

In Phaenoh's defense, they aren't just deco. Granted it may not have been as complicated to build as Pes's babby roaster, but she did mod some objects.

Why would they even allow Pes to post, AND give him the profile deco of being in the damn contest if they aren't going to let him compete in the polls? Are they that butthurt after some people in the community said they hated MTS2 for even allowing Pes to post? Just seems like a cop out on MTS part.

Edited to say:


I just read that from Delphy. Quite frankly that pisses me off, mostly because he didn't say "If you aren't going to vote then don't comment." So because people are expressing their feelings of displeasure with MTS and not allowing the roaster to get posted, he gets to delete them? Fuck that. Boaderline TSR territory there.

I'm not here in any sort of official capacity, just putting in a point of view.

- MTS2 does not normally allow anyone to post uploads which are not actually hosted on MTS2. Download threads without attachments are generally archived, so threads don't end up advertising something which can't be downloaded any more (especially as external sites move their files around, or disappear entirely). So in that sense the rules were stretched (but not broken!) to allow the roaster, 'cause it was just that cool, and 'cause Pescado is fairly likely to remember to maintain the offsite link. :)
- MTS2 does not normally allow content which has graphically violent imagery. I think the "serving" part of the roaster skirts the edge of rule pretty closely - it's not blood spurting, but it is severing limbs, which is getting close. So there was a slight stretch (again, not a break!) of the rules there as well, because it was just that cool.
- The requirements for "exceptionals" in creator challenges include a direct relevance to the theme. The theme was "fun stuff for kids". While thoroughly awesome, this download is stretching that definition quite a bit in spirit, at least.

The roaster is on MTS2, it is welcome on MTS2, and it's going to stay on MTS2 (as long as the creators are willing). But it's already done quite a bit of stretching to get it where it is. :P

All that said, I do find the comparisons to TSR a bit distasteful. MTS2 is a private forum, and when many people combine forces to derail a thread I think it is entirely legitimate to remove those posts. Staff didn't allow anti-roasters to derail support threads over the roaster, and we don't allow pro-roasters to derail voting threads over it. There is a big difference between that and TSR's habit of selling low-quality content, sharing users personal details, hacking sites and leaning on others to get them shut down. It seems to me as though saying "They're becoming like TSR" of any site less liberal than PMBD is almost worthy of some sort of Godwin's law meme these days.  ::)

(As a side note, Phaenoh's stuff is fairly extensively modded, even if it's not immediately obvious to the downloader. She's enabled new clothing categories for toddlers, including underwear and swimwear, and created an object which remotely mirrors another sim's plumbob. It definitely fits better under modded objects than deco objects)

There'd probably be more of a shitstorm if it were let in compared to it's exclusion, food for teh thought.

Then if they let him put it up, then they shouldn't have given him the icon in his profile for participating in the kid contest.


http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=231679
Shoots sims with a disease which ultimately will kill them.

http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=231678
Shoots and kills sims.

http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?t=215543
Your sims can fight, which they get stabbed with the sword. They can also commit suicide with the sword, and even kill other sims.

What kills me, there was a huge controversy about the babby roaster, yet none of these objects? But of course it's because your sims are eating a baby though right? His object was still entered into the contest, and should have been posted as a viable contestant. Honestly they should have included everyone that participated. Just because their staff finds those downloads the favorites, doesn't mean everyone else does. They didn't even state what the criteria for being on the poll was. Was it "Oh this object looks like it took a lot of time to create," or was it "Oh I like this one!"



I agree with this part. It's not fun for kids, but then they shouldn't have included it within the kid contest period. It should have been posted as a regular download.


Yes they may have taken a backlash to host the object, but if they weren't going to host it, I'm sure Pes would have found somewhere else to host it. It was just funny that it got entered into their little child contest.

As for the comments about TSR, how is it distasteful? TSR deletes any comments that don't agree with them. Delphy is obviously doing the same here. Hell I agree with them when the whole controversy about the roaster started, because it was thoroughly stated not to comment on the download if you didn't like it. It may be a private forum that they can run however they like, but if Delphy had said not to comment about the roaster on that thread then I would fine with the deletions. But he didn't. He just said don't vote. The people on that thread weren't voting. They were expressing the fact that they would vote had the roaster been on there. They clearly were breaking no rules. Oh wait, according to Delphy, they were:


Which again, he didn't say to not post about the roaster. I don't think people here meant in the sense of MTS sharing information, they meant in the sense of deleting comments they don't like. TSR does that ya know.


They were willing to deal with it when the roaster was posted. What's the difference between then and now?

 I was one of the first dowloaders of the baby-Q and was on the site that nite having fun with MTS2 staff and the good folk from The Site That Must Not Be Named as we poked fun at those who could not see the genius of the humor in it. That nite, MTS2 staff DEFENDED the download! Now they call it contraversial? WTF? Delphy is deleting posts and "ignoring" votes for items not on his list.  ???  

AND ANOTHER THING! I specificilally stated that nite "get it while its hot, it wont be around for long" and referenced this download that MTS2 defended as well...http://modthesims2.com/dowload.php?t=214689 (http://modthesims2.com/dowload.php?t=214689). That sim is still available, as H.P. stated, but with a maxis skin. The "contraversial" tattoos are not there. I dont get it. MTS2 is a stand alone site, right? Who are they bending for? 

Bigjoe, don't double post. It's in the faq if you haven't read it.  ::)

Like I said, the roaster is skirting the edges of rules, but not actually breaking them. ;) I think the quote goes "it's a fine line he didn't cross". As a side note, there is a difference between violent and graphically violent. The line is normally to do with goriness; falling over and curling up != gory. Having guts fall out and spill all over the floor == gory. Being roasted "off screen" then sliced in a cartoony manner is... somewhere in the middle. :) We have had content moved to the adult site for being too gory. This download didn't quite cross that line.

So do most newspaper websites, personal blogs, heck, even charities! It's a common practice. Comparing MTS2 to TSR for deleting posts is a bit like saying "You like drinking cordial? Saddam Hussein likes drinking cordial! You should stop drinking cordial or else you're being like him!". Obviously that's exaggerated, but my point is this: Someone does something you don't like, so you compare them to the most unpleasant group you can think of which also does that thing. (I'm using 'you' in the general sense.) It's similar to those people who compare someone to Hitler just to disprove their basically unrelated point.

Anti-roasters and pro-roasters.  Class!   :D

Yeah, why do we always seem to be forming political parties during the last couple of years? It's this group against that group and we're always worried about being politically correct and ulterior motives.  ???

That is true that there is a difference between violent and graphically violent. My point with what I posted is that you called it a stretch within their rules, yet it was still allowed to enter in the kid contest. I can't find it at the moment, but I am rather curious as to what the guidelines for the contest was. It's just sketchy that it's okay for the sites rules, but not okay for the poll? Yes, a lot of stuff wasn't included. But why wasn't the other objects included. What was the guidelines for being considered a staff "favorite?" Oh, I love how Delphy throws the other creators in there "think of how they feel that they weren't in the poll!" Yet doesn't give any criteria as to why they aren't?  What would have been so hard about including everything and letting the fans decide as to what is the best created item?


Have you ever heard the saying "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?" Just because other organizations out there discard of comments that disapprove of their business doesn't make it right. Look at Amazon and Spore, and Mass Effect with Martha MacCallum. Both instances were frowned upon that both instances deleted customers reviews of products. Just because Amazon does it, does it mean MTS should? Shouldn't there be a standard other than "If we don't like it, we delete it!"

Not to mention if Garden of Shadows deleted comments the mods didn't agree with, I would say "MTS is becoming like GOS!" It's not comparing the people, but comparing the practices. Like I said had Delphy said do  not post about the roaster, I would be fine with the deletions. But he did not. Now they are deleting the posts because of what? Because people are expressing the fact they want to vote for the roaster? So every discussion they don't approve of, is it going to be deleted? Are they going to come out with a list of "approved" topics that the people can discuss?

Everyone here is more or less pissed because it wasn't included, I'm sure you could tell that. But I for one would like a better explanation other than "We didn't think it fit as our favorite." I'm not some pawn they can feed minimal amount of information to.

I posted earlier to MTS2:

Evidently you're taking lessons from TSR now, blocking things you don't like, only allowing things you want or things that can make you look good, making up rules to suit whatever, whenever, however and changing them at your whim.

Yes, yes, yes, I know this is a private site; yes, yes, yes, you can do whatever the hell you want. You've stated it ad nauseum, and we are just peons, bowing at your feet to allow us access to this magnificent site that features (now, rarely) wonderful creations. Blah blah blah.

However, please remember, the users made this site what it is, way back when.

I want to vote for the Babby BBQ. It is my choice.

You can ban me now, if you want. Your usefulness has come to an end. The game is done, and I rarely play. I look around, download, but I've not loaded the game in weeks.

I don't visit here anymore because of the virus-ridden ads, the blinky-flash and the idiocy. I might look in if I see something on another site that says "check this out". Otherwise, I simply don't come here anymore because of the attitude. Far more free sites do it better.

Honestly, you have become the *free* TSR.

I edited my post to add that my REAL name is LYRIC. I am not LyricLee. That bitch has ruined more of my logins than I can count.

whiterider then deleted my post as being "wildly off-topic".

My reply:

Wildly off-topic, eh? It was on-topic, to the nth.

Check my ID, I've been here since the very first of this site. This is the first time I've spoken out. Allow me this one thing.

How is the Babby BBQ "wildly off-topic", pray tell?

S/he's answer is a thumb in the mouth: "It's not one of the nominees. This thread is about the nominees. Not sure where the confusion came from, really."

Weren't you in #social for a while?  It's sad that you have to announce that you're not LL wherever you go in this community.

I have to agree with this. MTS2 is not one single thing like TSR - so stop it.  TSR shares information, DDOSes other sites, poaches creators from freesites, and is pay.  Deleting a comment or multiple comments doesn't make it TSR.  TSR removes the whole thing from existence like it never happened - try to find the front page news post about how they only shared 5 peoples' information - go on, find it. And if you do, then you can talk about MTS2=TSR.

I mentioned this years ago in terms of the moderation methods on MTS2, but it bears mentioning again.

Post deletions by moderators show how well a site is managed.  The catch?  The relationship is inverse.  Sure, there are plenty of sites out there that delete posts.  Those are sites where I don't engage in discussion, and I'm sure a lot of other people agree with me.  But it definitely shows a lack of good communication skills on the part of those doing the deletion.

The constant post deletions have actually made it so I don't really want to engage in discussion there at all any more, period.  And this is prior to anything babbyque.  I see constructive crit, anything but a "baa, thanks," on a download, deleted. What's the point in trying to help anyone?  It doesn't happen to all the crit I see, but it happens often enough that I don't want to deal with it.  So, yeah, this is a hell of a lot similar to the way they roll at TSR.

I'm not saying not to moderate, but deleting posts out of hand is despicable.  That should be a last-ditch action if something is completely unredeemable--you've got a spammer, or someone merely posting capslocked profanity, but not when someone is making a reasonable statement.  The worst part of it is that it is eliminating proof on either side--no one knows if those were really horrible posts or not.  And given the trends I've seen, I'm willing to bet it's more likely than not they were innocuous.  You have a moderator outright delete ONE post that isn't out of line or inflammatory, and I see every subsequent deletion as an example of that mod being petty, incapable of dealing with differing opinions, and on a power trip.  Not all the mods on the site are like that, but perhaps I've missed their time to shine as a raging douchebag because they've deleted the post.

Or perhaps, more likely, there are several mods out there who just hit the delete button instead of actually thinking about the best course of action.  And there are some who do moderate, which is why I don't see them caught up in deletion storms.  Again, I don't have a problem with moderation, I mod the main LJ sims comm and have modded elsewhere in the past but there is a reason why the goddamn word is moderation.

On a different note...for some reason that thumbnail of Phaenoh's creation was making me think of something else completely.  I went back and clicked on the thread, and I see that there are a lot of heavily modded things.  So I apologize for what I said...now I'm wondering what set I thought it was!

Thus why I said, food for thought. Hypocrisy, thy name has risen.

You can delete our posts but you can't delete our freedom!




Or not.

Haha, I seem to recall a famous Scots saying something along them lines  ;D.

I just read the reply to my post over there, and she is reffering to us as "Sheeple" that come and bang out pots and pans on Pescados command. Last I checked, we were not controlled by Pes, which is a the complete lie truth, of course we are, and we are able to make a decision for ourselves, I'm not sure what other peoples motives are behind their posts, but mine are to do with principals, what they are saying is contradicting themselves, that it's an issue it being in the poll because the file isn't hosted on MTS2 servers, but that it's not a problem it being on the site because it links directly to the file?
Are they expecting me or us to just bow down to them and accept their way of thinking as the law and that it must never ever be questioned? If the have a problem with people expressing their opinions and concerns in a PUBLIC forum, and not sugar coating their opinions, then maybe they should consider removing that system all together.

I understand why people are comparing MTS2 with TSR, but I also feel its a bit unfair.

I think deleting the comments about the babyroaster were unfair.  My comment was not mean, I did not demand.  I said, counted or not, I wanted to vote for the baby roaster on the basis of its quality.  So yes, I'm miffed at MTS2.

However, being miffed doesn't justify calling them another TSR.  TSR is far worse.  TSR may edit comments, but that's not what most people think of when they think of TSR lately.  TSR is under fire for a lot of reasons that MST2 has never done and (hopefully) never will.  Delphy has not shared private information, he has not tried to exploit a dying person, as far as I know he has not made people sign a sacred oath before they can enter certain parts of the site.  

The problem with saying, "You're becoming another TSR," is that like it or not, it heavily implies that they are guilty of doing everything TSR does, not just one aspect and a milder one at that.  Yes, deleting comments doesn't seem right, but the last I checked, our major gripes with TSR have nothing almost nothing to do with editing comments.

And, to give MtS2 credit, there is evidence that comments were left.  On TSR, the entire thread would be deleted in seconds, and it would look as if it never existed.

Telling MTS2 and the world that MTS2 is becoming another TSR would be almost like saying to someone who is publishing independent music, "Wow, you're just like Charles Manson!"   Yes, the person and C.M do share one common trait, both of them are producing independent music, but, when you think of Charles Manson, his music is not the first thing that comes to mind.   Psychopathic nutjob comes first.  

Since I was one of the people comparing MTS2 and TSR, I think I should probably clarify, though of course I can't speak for anybody else. I don't think MTS2=TSR. I was upset that they felt the need to delete comments that were on topic, politely written, and did not break any explicitly stated rules, an unnecessary tactic TSR seems fond of utilizing. However, that's where the similarities end in my eyes. As you pointed out, MTS2 has never pulled any of the number of terrible stunts TSR has pulled.

MtS2 will never be like tsr to the extent some people are implying.  It seems saying that someone is like tsr/thomass/atwat is the sims community version of calling somebody a nazi and it makes just as much sense.  None.

Never thought I'd see the day, but I agree with missangelica.

They're not being freaking nazi's about this. They explained why they didn't put it up for voting, then explained it again and again. Deleting the posts was a bit much, but then they explained why they did that as well. When is the last time you saw any debate and explainations on TSR? They just delete and to hell with what anyone thinks. The whole ZOMG-you're-JUST-like-them attitude is way over the top. You can disagree with their reasons but not with the way they handled it. The BBQ didn't fit with the child theme they had in mind. Anyone can see that and if you pretend you can't, you're grasping at technicalities, which I think is less than fair towards them.

MTS2 is far from being like TSR.

In my own personal opinion, and as I have been someone who compared them I feel I should clarify this point, my only comparison is with the censorship, which is something I also stated in my post there and here, any other similarities end there as they are non-existant. I can only speak for myself however. I can also understand why they deleted posts and no put it p for vote, what I cannot understand is the way that they are putting across that it's their way and no other way.
Like I mentioned before, it is a public forum, so people should be able to express their opinions on the matters, as long as it is kept friendly and polite, it is still a multi-age site after all, and with no abuse thrown at the people themselves, just their methods.
Other peoples posts there were on the topic of the challenge itself, while I never got to read the first batch of deleted posts, the others I could see no reason to delete, most of them made valid points.

Would they delete a thread asking to put the BBQ in the vote? That would be censorship. Deleting comments in a voting thread is a bit lame in this particular case, but not all that strange.

I wouldn't compare MTS2 to T$R for deleting my comment. I'm comparing them to the BBS, where rules for deletion get established after the fact.

I left a comment that said something like "What happened to the Babby Roaster? I vote for that" and I posted it before HP or Delphy chimed in with their reasoning for keeping the roaster out. I was one of the first comments. Now, I could understand deleting it if I had posted it after they explained their reasoning for excluding the roaster and I was being a dickbag annoyance that wouldn't let it die, but that's not the case. My post broke no rules and wasn't at all inflammatory. But it was still deleted, followed up by being insulted and called a sheep.  :-\

But that's still minor compared to T$R nonsense. I'll get over my post being deleted at MTS2, I'll never get over T$R passing around personal information like cake at a wedding.

See, now, what you should have done, Pescado, was make the baby roaster usable by children; that way the mods couldn't say it wasn't for kids.  Or made a version that was only usable by children.  And autonomous.  For those 12s who are jealous of the new baby.  Don't leave them alone with free will on and nothing better to do...   :D   

And after the repy to my post where we were all called sheep and insulted, I was going to reply to that, but thought that I would drop it over there and allow them to concentrate on the actual competeition itself rather than the BBQ. I don't take back what I said, but I wont insult someone directly like that when I don't know them personaly, if they wish to insult us, that is up to them, but i will not lower myself to that level.

Yeah I thought the sheeple comment was unnecessary. I don't think that a group of people who share the same opinion about something is quite the same as a bunch of people who do whatever they are told. It insinuated that Pescado has a bunch of weak willed slaves here, doing his bidding.

Well not here anyway...

*Laughs* 

BTW?  Your icon rules.

Maybe you guys are right for the comparison. But I will agree with what others have said, in that the comparsion wasn't on all equal levels. It more or less comparing deletion of comments. Yes TSR may get rid of the whole conversation, but they also have just deleted said comments that didn't say "OMG I wuv you!" That is what my comparison meant. But after cooling down I do see how it was a bit harsh and apologize.  :P

I've been lurking here for months and finally got off my arse and registered just to protest against the sheer unfairness of anti-babycue bias.  Obv. MTS2 fears the succulent, smoky, well-marbled controversy surrounding such an object, considering the--what? 500 or so comments the original item received?  Which I can sort of understand, from a moderator point of view.  But I would have liked the opportunity to show my love.

::would also like to complain that PhotoBucket deleted her twenty-second video of the Baby-Cue in action::

::will shut up and lurk more now::