PMBD

Hey there. Came along a site I've never seen before (been getting new links from a friend). This site is "mainly free" and has no mindblowing stuff. Still, has donation items I personally wouldn't pay for even if life threaten.
http://www.streetchicers.tk/ (http://www.streetchicers.tk/)
Plus, even when beign such a little website, with no "special" stuff for the poor people who decide to support it, they have the guts to write this in the donation section:
"Please don't donate less than 2 € (PayPal have to high fees and I don't received too much if you donate less)"
New site to kick ass to? Hope so ;D

This is a no-no. Consider yourself macro'd.

(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/funny-pictures-the-helpdesk-operators-are-busy.jpg)

Advertising payshit in Paysites Must Be Destroyed. Enjoy when Pescado bans you, eats your soul and your computer..  >:(

(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii219/benroxy5/cat%20macros/funny-pictures-unimpressed-cat.jpg)

Apparently I haven't made myself clear here. I AM NOT ADVERTISING, I'm trying to bring up the fact of still another full of shit site that must be killed, stalked to death, ripped out of its heart, really annoying full of crap!!!!!! What part of english have I missed for gosh's sake!
I'm pissed now, I feel deeply insulted.

That isn't what she's doing, she's asking if we ought to rip that site a new ass, Blade. Also, starting a new thread about this instead of using an existing one is bad.

(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg24/Paden1865/catguide.jpg)

Seriously, read the bloody post.

The person was saying: "New site to kick ass to? Hope so"

They were suggesting the files be put in the Booty, not some advertising of a paysite.

Nightmare, the OP isn't advertising a paysite. She's bringing our attention to a paysite that she believes we don't know about. I've never seen it before nor do I see it in the Booty.

Someone will probably have to explain to me why this thread is wrong because I don't see why it is.

I'm ready for the macros if I'm wrong, but... Since the site is so small and new, they shouldn't really need donation files. Since most of the content is free perhaps someone could send them an e-mail persuading them to make the rest that way? Or telling them about better hosting options? The people running the site don't seem bad, I think they just don't know of any good hosting options in Spain.

Edit - Read the rest of the thread, and fuck the owner because she's a paysite because she likes payshit. Fail. :P

oh thank god some people still think! Thanks a lot, now I feel better. Indeed, I was trying to BRInG TO ATTENTION MORE CRAP. please, look at my sig sugar!

A search of this site brings up three other references to "streetchicers" all talking about it being a nice free site so the site isn't new but maybe the change to a paysite is? Anyway, this should've gone in "Talk about the Booty" probably instead of a new thread.

Point taken Paden, I´ll let the cat guide me next time  ;) . So Dusdeedawn said no-no because Erwenia didn´t use an existing thread...

I get it, there was a thread. I swear I searched the forum....*lowers heas* Scolding taken.
Will be more careful next time. Sorry.   :-[

Awww, yes, "Talk about the Booty". Silly me. I get it now. Sometimes slow keirra is slow.  :D

Not a new site and them being a paysite is not new. Unsure what they say at the site now, but it was discovered a long time ago that there reasoning for being a paysite was to buy sets from other paysites...naturally a link to the booty was provided..and well, from the fact that they are still a paysite, you can see what kind of people the site owners are. I never forget that kind of stuff, it leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth.

Eta, oh its still there:


 ::)

OMG! That's an excellent excuse.  ::) I hope nobody is dumb enough to pay her anything.

Wow, talk about perpetuating the paycrap jerk circle. This is the number 1 lame paysite excuse I've ever seen, no contest.  :D

Why doesn't someone comment on her website or shoot her an email, that there is in fact a way to get paysite stuff for free, via PMBD, so her lame excuse of "I want to buy shineys with your monies!" should sink faster a concrete block in water? I personally don't believe that excuse, she probably just wants to know just how much money she can make.

Didn't Jojoba just explain that she was contacted and ignored it? Or did I misunderstand that post?

 No, that's what I understood too, Devilfish. Maybe Dee just missed that part.

 

Yes. Had little energy to expend for an explanation. Coffee pot is broken. Just got new one. Still drinking first cup. Tastes like new coffee. Blech. Want old, nasty coffee maker back.

Do yourself a favour and make it double strong for the first few batches and that will break it in just right. Trust me, done it before.

I thank you for feeling my pain.

Did someone say COFFEE ? So, earlier I went to Barnes & Nobles (I know! During the Christmas Holiday? Crazy!) and ordered a tall black coffee and drank it while I perused the biography and history aisles. It was very strong and really good (I wish I was one of those people who can take a sip of coffee and tell you where the beans were grown. That's just a remarkable talent) so I ordered another while my partner went over to the shop next door to look for shoes (yeah, like he needs another pair) and I drank that one while reading some magazines (I'm really starting to warm up to James Franco - the guy's trying, you know?). Anyway, he gets back after buying a pair of KILLER brown Kenneth Cole shoes (how jealous am I? - preeeetty jealous), and orders some spicy pumpkin brew. Now, usually I don't like flavored or even sweet coffee but this was incredibly tasty (like pumpkin pie and coffee all mixed into one) and so I ordered a small cup to go. Well, let me me just say, that I'm so charged right now that my teeth are chattering and the screen looks funny (it's VIVID and BRIGHT and sort of PULSING) and if I concentrate even harder than I am now I'm pretty sure I could make Thomass' head explode (problem solved!), or else pop the eyeballs out of my head. I know I have a major coffee crash due in a little while (ugh!) but then I'm thinking that tomorrow morning I get to make a fresh pot and start all over again. I love life, and I really, really love that life has coffee.

Poor Snarky, I imagine he looks a wee bit like this: (http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/BlueMoon1958/CaffeineCat.jpg)

Snarky, sir. I work at a cafe inside a Border's, and that is my life EVERY DAY at work...except, I just go straight espresso. Two shots of espresso with a pump of vanilla flavoring. Yum. Except, they're so small, that you don't realize how much you've had until you've had 10 shots of espresso and you're bouncing around going "YOU GUYS NEED WHIPPED CREAM ON THOSE DRINKS? OH MY GOD, THEY LOOK SO PRETTY WHEN WE GARNISH THEM." My regulars think it's hilarious. The tourists (we're located in a tourist heavy district of SF) think I'm crazy.

Yeah I missed it *sheepish*

I blame Jojoba's Dylan Moran avatar. Every time she posts I just stare at her avatar for a wee bit and then read her post. Sometimes words cannot penetrate due to my brain still glowing from awesome avatar, so it's totally her fault. Granted I was also coffee less, and not looking forward to spending more than half my day finishing up Christmas shopping. Thank God I had a coffee for every hour I was downtown, otherwise I would have stabbed a few people. Bouncing off the wall means to me, not focusing too much on the lack of customer service, and the sheer elitist idiocy in every corner

Posh woman picks up a tin can priced $367 "Oh look Mervina, a delightful tin brooch keeper, not badly priced. Probably from Preston" *flicks it with one jewellery crusted finger* "A sure antique"
Mervina: "God I hate it when people breathe on me, or they stand in front of the door to let children through. I so wish we were at Prestons"

And so on.. and so forth. I don't know where Preston is, it probably doesn't exist, hence why I also wish they were there and never ever return.

As a massive caffeine addict, I am so with you guys.  If I could walk around with a coffee IV, I would do it.  Border's books coffee is my favorite.  I love that coffee.

Snarky, sir, you just made me snort said elixir of the vibrating gods through my nose. 

Oh man, I'm completely the same! I've got the exact same problem with Anyerfillag. Dylan Moran and Robert Downey Jr. are too sexy for this post, too sexy for this post.  :-*

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b33/cosmic_charly/macro/1df78201.jpg)

Devilfish, your coffee picture made me rofl.  Coffee is what keeps me alive.  Alive, I tell you.  I think I drink somewhere around 48 cups a day.  I haven't been overly dosed on caffeine in awhile.  Pretty sure my head would fall off if I ran out though.

I've never been a coffee drinker myself, but my friends say I'm like that normally.  (And, oh yeah, keep me the hell away from peppermind chocolate.  I get so much of a sugar buzz on that stuff, my skin goes numb - kid you not.)  Do like my affogatos though.  Yum, yum :)  Oh yeah, and a good mocha.  Vienna mocha especially  ;D  Chocolate and coffee with whipped cream, a truly decadent combination (you do know that chocolate has caffiene in it too -- and moar sugar  :D )

I'm just the same. I've been out of bed for an hour and I'm on my third cup right now, and that's only because we don't have any food in the house. Gimme a sammich and I'll have two cups with that as well.

But back on topic, that lame excuse makes me angry. Very angry. That stuff should be in the booty purely on principle.

I don't like coffee or anything that has coffee in it, smells like coffee, tastes like coffee, or resembles coffee in anyway, form or fashion.  YEAH!!  Coffee rocks! cough, cough, spit, gag, go brush teeth and tongue to get the taste out...

Blasphemy! I motion for Pescado to make this your enforced avatar until you repent and change your wicked, hating ways!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b33/cosmic_charly/macro/71d6c17e.jpg)

Anyway, I sent the Streetchickers chick an email with a link to this topic, should s/h/it feel like chiming in. It's only fair.

Oh man, oh man oh boy, I just read they're thinking of opening Starbucks in my backwards armpit of a country. Holy crap. I'm sure there's a lot of smart things to say against that, but oh boy. Starbucks. Here. Withing easy reach. No more having to fly to London to gets me my Grande Extra Beany Frickenchino. I like this news, can you tell?

I used to drink coffee, lots and lots of coffee. Then I found coke (Coca-Cola for any of you who don't know what I meant)
I'm a serious coke addict, I go through around 75 cans a week. Plus some random bottles thrown in there as well.
 When I fell pregnant, and they told me I could only have 5 tins a day I damn near cried.

(http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL646/2837408/19658330/347285989.jpg)  The French

(http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL646/2837408/19658330/347285990.jpg) The Italians

(http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL646/2837408/19658330/347285987.jpg) The Austrians

(http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL646/2837408/19658330/347285986.jpg) and God love them The Belgians

I only drink the stuff for the sake of art of course. Oh the suffering.

I drink 2 pots every day. I could just use an IV, TBH. It's my lifeblood. :D

Did anyone else notice that in every pic of coffee, there were ciggies too..    :-\

Love my coffee...miss my smokes   :-X

I noticed that as well. Every time I resolve to quit smoking (for REAL this time :P) I think about my coffee and how awesome cigarettes are with it. It's like an irresistable don't-live-past-40 two-fer and I can't get enough. If Satan wants my soul, he can have it for a pack of smokes and a coffee IV.

Coffee is a sedative to me. I recall I actually ran the numbers to discover why: My blood has higher caffeine concentration than coffee and drinking coffee thus simply dilutes my caffeination level. My blood also is apparently unhealthy. The wife discovered that it will kill bugs, and if you sprinkle it on a bug, the bug will shortly start twitching and die. Your 48-cup coffee drinking is no match for mine: I have the equivalent of over 100 coffees worth of caffeine in my system at any given time. Lesser wimps would DROP DEAD from that. But not me.

Coffee? Blergh, give me a good steaming cup of Earl Grey *yum*

So if someone were to introduce blood into your caffeine cycle, it'd kill you? Awesome. I'm sure your enemies will pay me a princely sum for this information.

*runs off to rent conference hall for enemies*

Well, hell, Pescado. Maybe I'll just request a quart of blood from you everyday and nix the coffee all together.  :D

Agreed. I tried drinking it once. I almost choked. I am trying to learn though, because I am Swedish and here the stuff is like drinking water. Every social gathering has it, and it's almost considered an anti-social stance not to join in . It's like with alcohol, except alcohol=during night, coffee=during day. I don't drink alcohol either (except for cyber rum and other beverages on teh internetz :P) - I'm a tea person.


Apsalar, shares her rum & cookies.

So if Pes dies, we'll just point the police in your direction then Devilfish ;)

On your side, mate.  Love a good cup of tea.  When I wake up in the morning until I've had my cup of tea, I'm so grumpy I would make Pescado look like a perky little blonde socialite.  And if I can't have my cup of tea, forget grumpy try I'm a fucking psychotic bitch to put it mildly.  We've got a water filter that heats the water to the perfect temperature for a good cup of tea, and I use nothing less than Twinings.  Earl Grey somedays.  I don't mind a good Irish Breakfast, either.  In a nice big mug, with fresh organic milk (you know, the stuff that still has the cream on top).  Preferably the pot brewed stuff, of a good quality leaf.  I can taste the difference between that and the lesser quality.  I'm all about quality over quantity.

Ry, one suspects that you are in fact a closet vampire, not a pirate.

Pfft! I find it very unlikely anyone could out grump Pes :D I drink nothing but Twinnings Earl Grey nowdays; when I'm somewhere that doesn't do Earl Grey and I get normal bog-standard tea like Tetleys or PG Tips I grimance straight away. I gotta have my hit of bergamot or I can't cope :D I love my milky tea, so have shit loads of the stuff, but too much to drown out the tea itself.

I used to have bergamot growing in the garden.  Would harvest it, dry it, and blend it with a good black leaf.  Beaudiful.  Unfortunately, bergamot isn't the easiest plant to look after.   And Tetley?  Don't say that word.  An insult to tea.  Dilmah's tolerable.  But Tetley is just all kinds of wrong.

I'm just a gelatinous piece of organic matter devoid of any and all motor skills until I'm thoroughly caffeinated.

Current pick: LavAzza Crema e Gusto   Is good ya!

Aww, good stuff. I love Lady Grey too. Too bad that Twinings is rather hard to find where I live. Or good tea in general, for that matter. I was very disappointed when the only Harrods tea shop in the city was pulled out.  :( I prefer Twinings, but I do have a soft spot for their English Breakfast.

I prefer tea to coffee, but that's not to say that I don't love coffee. I love my coffee hot and black, just like my avatar. :D

I think you have reading comprehension fail. I said MY blood is apparently fatal to bugs. It obviously is not fatal to ME.

A vampire? Have you been keeping secrets, Ry? ;)

Coffee actually is a sedative to me too. It will wake me up for about half an hour, and then I crash. It's yummy, though.

My mom's family drinks coffee so strong and dark, it looks like oil and tastes like dirt from the lowest reaches of hell. I don't like that "coffee". I don't like Starbucks either, it's too strong and always tastes burned.

I like coffee okay, but I much prefer tea - coffee makes me fall asleep, which is of no use except at bedtime.

Obviously. So I deduced that instead of a normal blood cycle, you must have something close to a caffeine/arsenic cycle instead, which would kill a normal human. I figured maybe the reverse is true as well and having normal blood injected into your cycle of poison might very well kill you. It's probably why spiking your coffee with arsenic hasn't worked so far. It's all conjecture of course.

I must have that morning coffee and cigarette or someone will die. 'Tis the way of the world. My mother drank coffee and smoked when she was pregnant with me (her doctor said that all it would do was lower my birth weight and I ended up 9lbs 8oz anyway) and then when I was little I would take sips of her coffee when she was looking, but mostly when she wasn't. It always tasted so good! Well, later I figured out that that was because she prefers to use Carolan's instead of cream. She only let me have some when she was out of Carolan's! So, anyhow, I figure I've been preconditioned to appreciate the things that make one's teeth turn yellow.


In the event of an accident, I want you as my blood donor. I know, I know - I'll drop dead. But I'll die happy.


BLASPHEMERS!  ;)

Starbucks is the devil. I lived on that shit while driving when I was pregnant last time, and I NEVER had a latte without coffee grounds at the bottom of the damn cup. Nowadays I drink Dutch Bros when I get a latte and I am much much happier. It's not burned, not grounds in my cup, it's less expensive, AND when you say "I'd like a 20 oz.latte with almond" they DON'T ARGUE AND TRY TO TEACH YOU THEIR GODDAMN FUCKING MORONIC SIZE CHART. I mean, not that they have one - their large is called Big" and their smallest is called "small..."
Also you can get them to do just about anything to your coffee if you ask nicely. It's frickin' sweet.

When I was in high school and in my freshman year of college I drank coffee like it was water. I started doing it because I needed to stay up during some nights to study but it quickly grew into an habit. When I got pregnant I had to reduce my dosage considerably. The result is, I haven't touched a single cup for five years. I fell completely out of habit and now can't even stand the taste of it. I still like the smell, for some reason, but you can't make me drink it, not even if I really need to. Needless to say, I still feel like a zombie every morning.
The first Starbucks in my country opened a few months ago - yes, I live in the third world - and while I haven't tried it yet - hello, don't like coffee anymore - the few people I know that have given it a shot say it's not worthy. Tall cups of flavoured coffee isn't the way we roll around here, apparently.

It will never cease to amaze (and astound) me all the ways in which you are naturally more awesome than myself.  It's also taken a few years for me to work up to 48 cups a day.  It would take many more to reach 100.  Of course, this would just be synthesized awesomeness, that pales in comparison to the highly toxic environment your body just makes naturally. 

I like all sorts of tea, but not the normal 'southern' black tea - like green, jasmine, white, herbals of all sorts and earl gray.  I'm just really picky about plain black tea.

I really freaking hate Starbucks, too! On the main roads (what few there are) and in the [comparatively] larger towns up here, you can usually find mocha stands. Naturally, quality varies from stand to stand, but I've found some good ones in all of my road tripping. But I just can't drink Starbucks. If I had to describe the taste of that shit they put in a cup and call coffee, I would say it tastes like WalMart. It's disgusting, and this is coming from a person who prefers her coffee pot have three layers of grime built up in it. I mean, I can stomach some rank fucking coffee, but Starbucks is just too gross for me.

OH! And I wanted to add this, too. They're wimps. Every other mocha place up here is set up in a little shack off the side of the road, with two drive-through windows, and they work at -20 (degrees Fahrenheit). But, oh, no! Not the Starbucks people. They set up in Safeway or Fred Meyer, and no one shows up if the weather is even as pleasant as +10! They're all a bunch of wimps.

I work at startbucks    *runs*


 I actually hate it , but it offers me good day time hours with no weekends and I get health insurance. I will only drink the coffee if I know it is fresh.

I don't like coffee, either. Coffee-FLAVOURED stuff, sure. Kahlua, chocolate-covered espresso beans, Jamocha shakes, coffee pastille candy, YUM. Coffee in a cup? I love the smell, but I have never taken to drinking it.

It's not the caffeine. I drink soda pops, teas, and Red Bull-like beverages and eat chocolate with impunity. I can drink several or eat a mess off chocolate and go to bed without sleep disturbances.

Chocolate-covered espresso beans, when not taken in moderation, do tend to cause a strange effect, in that I free-associate and amuse people with my antics for a while.

I should go buy some.

It's okay littletoes, I don't hate the people who work at Starbucks (or any job for that matter - better to have one than not, yaknow?). I know they've GOT to correct people on their size chart, and it's just their job. But I really don't like the coffee  :P

Y'know, it's a headscratcher that Starschmucks does so well.  I know one person who likes it; everyone else I know thinks the coffee sucks.  I'm certainly one of them.  It's too strong, tastes burned, and is stupid expensive.  Gave me a headache too, the two times I tried it. 

I do love my GOOD coffee, though!  Problem is, I'm a caffeine wimp (makes me uncomfortably speedy without waking me up) and therefore must limit myself to one cup a day, and only with food.  Admittedly, a "cup" is twelve ounces, but one-third of it is decaf.  (More percentage of decaf than that, and I can start to taste the difference.)

Because I can only have so much, I decided to study up on coffee a little and only get the best.  Turns out there are two basic types of beans: Robusta and Arabica.  Robusta beans have been the "default" bean in the U.S. for a long time, but Arabica beans are better.  Smoother, better tasting, and usually a bit lower in caffeine.  Arabica beans haven't been as popular with growers due to being more delicate and harder to deal with than robusta beans. 

Arabica beans have made a big come-back in the last few years, though.  Folgers' gourmet line is made with Arabica beans, as well as all Community brand coffees.

I also love tea, but don't drink it daily like I do my coffee.  Earl Grey and Lady Grey are definite favorites.  For those who love flavored teas, I highly recommend Celestial Seasonings' "Nutcracker Sweet" tea.  Smells like butterscotch and is incredibly yummy!  It's also only on the shelves over the holidays, and I need to stock up.   :D

I love both coffee and tea. The coffee of choice in my house is Kona, which tastes really good. Also, did you know that the lighter roasts of coffee supposedly have more caffeine? Sad thing is, I can't drink coffee like I used to, too hard on my kidneys. Which ruins a good tweak, ya know?

That's what I've heard, too.  Roasting removes a certain amount of caffeine, so the more it's roasted, the less caffeine the coffee will have. 

It's funny to see people equating the strong taste of a dark roast as being "stronger" caffeine-wise.  "Yeah, I only drink French roast.  *flex muscles*  HOO-AH!"  *snork*

I prefer a medium roast, myself.  Light roasts often have a thin sour note that I don't like, and dark roasts are too heavy-tasting.

I drink dark roast because it tastes better, but mostly because the kind I buy is roasted and sold by an Alaskan company, and I like to support my peeps.

I rather wish I liked dark roasts.  Less caffeine would mean I could get away with drinking more of it.   :D

Who? Me? Keep secrets? Never.  :D
I have to admit, I was quite obsessed with vampires during my teenage years.
A little still, which is why I think Ash rocks.  ;)

Expresso has less too - the coffee is pressed because apparently Italians are impatient for coffee, but while it tastes stronger, its actually weaker because its steeping less.

But its sooooo good :P! It wakes me up in the morning, seeing as I am far from being a morning person (woop, Christmas holidays soon! SLEEP!) I love the smell of coffee but good god it tastes bloody awlful. I can't even eat things that taste like coffee without reaching for a drink to get rid of the taste!

That is true yes. I'm always amused by the North American penchant for drinking big tubs of brown water.

Arabica beans are actually more expensive too. That's probably why Robusta have been the default beans - cheapness.  And Coolington loves Celestial Seasonings.

I'm like chemistrycourtney - I drink mucho coffee everyday.

Yeppers.  Pretty sure your head would fall off if you didn't have any coffee too. 

My entire life would grind to a halt. :D One cannot be coherent after 5 hours sleep for 4 weeks without the addition of caffeine.  :P

I have but one thing to say to this, kenmtl:

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f114/dusdeedawn/128736004786424188.jpg)

 ;D

Heh.  My brain stops working if I don't have coffee to fuel it.  I guess 4 hours of sleep each early morning for years upon years makes coffee my brain power replacement.  I also prefer to drink mine black without any of that cream and sugar nonsense.  You?

In my country we have a complete coffee culture. Cafes tend to do better than bars, and most bars serve coffee during day time. I used to have the killer habit of drinking two or three Greek coffees before morning lessons at Uni, and that got me the reputation of beeing the chirpiest chemistry pupil in my whole year. Nowadays I stick with black espressos, as they are considerably lighter and I'm too old to be hyper all day.

And of course coffee should be drunk BLACK, milk and sugar shouldn't soil the pureness of caffeine (plus the way I was drinking it, if it had any sugar in it, I'd be knee deep in dental bills)

Not all North Americans drink brown flavoured water, I for one know how to brew it properly.

Mine too.  I have milk with mine otherwise, at vat rates, I get heartburn. I need to chug-a-lug. :D

I used to have sugar, but Coolington makes my coffee for me most of the time.  One day when he was in bed, and I needed one, I made it and it tasted terribly sweet and awful. I thought great - I've become so inept that I fail at making my own goddamn coffee.  About a week later, we had some friends over, and I was in the kitchen. I watched Coolington make my coffee, and put no sugar in.  I told him he forgot the sugar.  He said, with a giant grin on his face "Oh you don't have sugar anymore - I couldn't be bothered putting it in your coffee - so I weaned you off it" and then danced around doing the finger.  :D

I was a waitress at a cafe, while I was still in school Cala and that's the exact tactic that was used to convert me to the cult of sugarlessness  ;) The barista I worked with couldn't be bothered to put sugar in my coffee. (He also insisted that it was "better" for me  :) the lazy sod)

I confess to liking mine very sweet and creamy, but fairly strong.  I drink it with meals that don't usually include anything else sweet, so it's a nice foil for the savory stuff.  

I used to not understand people having coffee and donuts, until I finally realized that not everyone sweetens their coffee.  *duh*  Now I get it, and if on rare occasion I have something sweet with my coffee, I do prefer that the coffee not contain sugar.  Still want the cream in it, though.  Organic 1/2 & 1/2, preferably.


True.  And if my penny-pinching, coffee-hating hubby knew, he'd not be happy.  But it's more than worth a few more pennies per cup to get the good stuff.  

He'd just as soon I not drink coffee at all, because it's "expensive" and "bad" for me, but there's just no way I'm going to give it up.  I really look forward to my one cup every morning too much to consider it!  I also believe that thorough enjoyment of one's "vices" makes up for at least some of the negative effects they might have on one's health.   ;)  


THAT is hilarious!   :D

Thing is, coffee does actually contain beneficial compounds. So, you're drinking your supplements.

Oh dudes! U should try my mom's coffee dessert! It's soooo yummy. Vanilla cookies all soaked in coffee, then on top of it, some cream and chocolate mousse... you can't live without it! I am too, a proud coffee addict. ;D

Point out to him that they think coffee helps to ward off Alzheimer's. (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=132475&in_page_id=34)


I have a cheeky husband. :D He was dubbed "Sir Coolington" by Snarky after I told the story about how I was telling the kids off and he said "Finished haranguing them, Pescadette?"  :D Since he's a terrible luddite, I can escape being in his shadow online, and have a chance to show off my funny.  :P

You should try your spit or even your urine.  If that works as well, you could make a killing on a pesticide.

Palemato, my ten year old saw that comment. Now I can see I'll have to talk to him about pissing on the bugs outside and how you shouldn't whip your stuff out in the yard.  ;D

Interestingly, my chocolate cravings disappeared when I started drinking coffee daily.  I know coffee and chocolate are similar, but I wonder just how similar?  At any rate, reasonable amounts of both are healthy as well as yummy, that's for sure!

Oddly enough, as much as I love coffee, I'm not keen on coffee-flavored stuff like coffee ice cream or coffee liqueur.  Does sound good, though. 

HAH!  Good one - thanks!   ;D   Good thing he broke his terrible Mountain Dew habit long ago.  Otherwise, he'd use that article to justify it.

Your husband does sound like quite the character, not to mention tolerant of the time you spend on the PC. 
It's sad to hear about women with non-computer types SO's who complain if they're online or playing a game for more than a few minutes a day.   ::)  I'm fortunate to be married to a hard-core PC gamer.  He's has no interest in Sims, but loves the fact that I do since it means he can spend more time on HIS computer too.  He also keeps my computer running.   :D

(Actually, those last three sentences are largely moot since he's been working overseas for the last few years anyway.)   

I spend most of my time on the PC doing my thesis, which will make sure he lives in a lifestyle to which he will soon become accustomed.  I just do the sims stuff during the breaks.  So he puts up with it. He does call it my ignor-o-phone though. :D

Not in this house - coffee here is brewed strong.  The stuff in shops, no one here who drinks coffee likes it because its so weak.

And I love coffee ice cream and stuff, but that doesn't make me sleepy.  Of course, now I'm diabetic I can't really eat much ice cream - that and grinding my teeth alot has made them real sensitive.

The only time I drink coffee is when I've got like, $6 and up all night studying at the diner. I don't mind it black, but I like one cream, one sugar in mine. Bottomless coffee after eating some sandwich with my laptop and books at the corner booth. I'm not addicted though. I don't make coffee at home, I don't order coffee at breakfast, I don't drink it with family, etc. I get the coffee because its hot and bottomless. I could get water, but its cold. I could get soda, but its cold and I don't like a lot of soda. The coffee is the only thing left.

I don't drink a lot of tea either. I live in the southeast US, and when I say tea, I mean iced black tea. And sweet. I use 3 family sized tea bags and 3 cups of sugar for a gallon of iced (sweet) tea, and everyone loves it - except diabetics and my mother. I have to make about 2-3 gallons a day.

But I find caffeine doesn't really keep me awake. I have no trouble going to sleep after downing a can of soda or glass after glass of tea, or coffee. I don't get sugar rushes either. Energy drinks do nothing for me. I can understand the crash, I just don't get the high :[

I feel gyped.

We don't by ground coffee here, either. We buy the beans and grind our own. Tastes much better.

this board is hilarious!
I rarely drink coffee, and if I do, it has to be milky and have lots of sugar in it.
Even then, its too bitter.

I think tea has no taste as well, even with sweeteners.

You can thank me later.

I agree with Coolington...Morning Thunder being my fave of the Celestial Seasonings brand.

I've only recently taken a liking to coffee, and the stronger the better, with no cream and just a bit of sweetener. Not every day for me, but as a treat. Sometimes brewed witha touch of cinnamon.

I've only had Starbucks once, and someone else bought it for me. Can't justify the expense myself. I think home brewed is much tastier.

 When you are done with him, do you think you could talk to my husband? Peeing outside is a habit I have yet to break him of, even after 6 years.  ::)

I can't stand tea. It just repulses me, and I've tried every flavour. There is something lily-livered about tea I can't put my finger on. It tastes like dead plant? Must be it, can't stand it.
Coffee, is a must. If I don't have coffee everyday I cannot function. I have it with a splash of milk, hot and strong. No sugar.
When I order from a barista, I order double shot, thin crema in almost mug-form. I can do dainty cups, but then I order two while chain smoking. I do not do Starbucks, because the "coffee" tastes like "candy" and that is just plain wrong for me. I also eye all those bottles of artificial flavourings with great suspicion. I once went in to Starbucks with an Italian espresso I got from another bar, waiting for my friend to get her "Frappiccino" and saw a girl nearly empty the caramel squeeze bottle thing into her coffee. She was a skinny little Korean looking girl, and her coffee looked like dark brown fudge after she finished with it. Simply dreadful. Coffee? No, Starbucks is like a dessert bar. Eech.

We just do it cause we can. So nuyuh.

I find guys peeing outside a lot less yucky than spitting on the ground. blergh. At least urine is sterile, yaknow?

*Stands up* Hi everyone, my name is Pete and I too am a caffine addict. *Holds back joyful laugh and quietly sits back down*

After reading through this thread, I can't actualy remember what it was about, i just remember a lot of talk about coffee.
I love my coffee, which is odd since I used to hate it. I used to be a full time tea drinker, then a few years ago I decided to give up smoking(HA!) and tea ended up making me feel really sick after it, the taste and everything just blah! So i thought I would try coffee, and have almost never looked back. I have constantly got a fresh cup in front of me (Carte Noir, black, no sugar), both at home and at college. In college there is a running joke that if I were to cut myself I would bleed coffee. Anyway, I did, however, turn my back on coffee about a year ago. I had made a cup and was getting ready for work one morning, when, after rinsing my mouth out with mouthwash, drank coffee straight after, and then there was an ick factor after. I only drank tea after that for about 2 months before wanting coffee again. I love the stuff, and if I don't have it, then I am one stressed out bloke, even with the smokes.

 :D I enjoy tea, but I do agree. A lot of teas do taste like icky dead vegetation. I like hot berry teas or mint teas with a spoonful of honey best.
I don't care much for coffee except as part of a mocha or iced coffee concoction.

Just remember, the best way to clean a glass coffee carafe is with kosher salt and ice cubes. Dump the ice cubes (small ones) into the carafe and then pour in about a quarter cup of kosher salt and swirl around until you don't see any more nasty. Rinse and let dry. That way you don't have the nasty soap taste you normally get after washing your pot out, no matter how well you rinse it the soap seems to linger. Now you know how they clean the Bunn coffee urns in lots of places. :D

 That's what he says.


 Oh, yeah. I hate spitting in all forms, especially when someone is hacking for a bit before hand. It makes me nauseous.

Ok so why exactly does the salt need to be kosher?

I think that's because typically it's more coarse than table salt.

Because it's more coarse and has much bigger granules than regular table salt. Does a better job of cleaning.

ETA: Argh, ninja'd by CJane!

Coolington buys his good tea here: http://www.theteacentre.com.au/ - apart from Celestial Seasonings, most other tea tastes of dust. I like the Blue Lagoon mix myself, and will have the occasional cup.  I also love the Turkish Apple Tea.

Well that's good to know. Course salt is all we have anyway.

Does that work for other glass stuff too? I don't really have a glass coffee pot, it's strictly metal in this house.

Sorry Paden. I was quick on the draw for that one, I guess.


I thought when you were talking about Celestial Seasonings you were talking about their coffee...that's what their Morning Thunder is...organic coffee. It's friggin' good! I like their tea, too, though I don't do tea too often.

Also because - little known fact - all coffee pots are Jewish.

As a college student, I rarely drink anything that isn't doesn't contain massive quantities of caffeine. I require several gallons of coffee, tea, cola, and Red Bull each day or my organ systems begin to shut down. Therefore, I am always on the lookout for new sources of caffeine. I will now be tapping Pescado to drink his caffeinated blood. Thanks for the heads up, Pes!  ;D

I've been fortunate enough to never have a boyfriend who pee's outside. My current boyfriend has a terrible habit eating food that has fallen on the floor. No matter where. No matter what it touches. As long as he doesn't die from it afterwards, he won't see anything wrong with it.

Considering how much camping I've done with guys, if I'd never had a boyfriend who peed outside, I would have dated a lot of guys with burst bladders :P. One even peed in a jar which had a huge label on it that read "NOT LEMONADE". I've never dated a guy who spat though.

Speaking of pee and caffeine, when I was 18 I virtually lived on Mountain Dew. I think if I am ever forced to drink that poison again, I may go into anaphylactic shock.

I could live on Dr. Pepper, coffee, water, and cheesecake.

I used to drink a lot of diet coke, then I stopped, cold turkey, about 18 months ago. The headaches I had for about a week after were terrible, but I've never had or wanted any since. My hubby still drinks it though.

As for tea and coffee, my dad only drinks tea and my mum will only drink coffee. I like both. I do like my coffee strong though. My mum always complains that she could stand the spoon up in the coffee I make.  :D

And tea is always better with a slug of whiskey in it.  ;D

If I drink tea, it's usually an herbal tea (I have a sensitive stomach and peppermint tea helps a lot) or a green tea. There's this great tea place called Lupica out here and I love their Cherry Peach Green Tea and their Sakurambo Vert. Noms.

I've got a green tea in the cupboard known as the 'Temple of Heaven Chinese Gunpowder' .  Its a hand rolled green tea.  It looks like little green balls, and is twice as strong as coffee.  Doesn't have must flavour to it, but damn it has a kick.  I can't sleep for week after I have that stuff.  (Incidentally, have had severe issues with chronic insomnia for 6 - 7 years.  Issue is improving, but I've been up until 4 for the past two nights.  Just can't sleep, don't know why, don't care.  As long as I can be asleep by twelve I'm happy.  The worse its been was when I was sleeping until 8 pm.  If I tried to fight it,I would start hallucinating, and apparently was incapable of coherent speech.  Couldn't tell the difference between road and foot path, translate meanings of coloured lights, words, songs and such.  The worst ever feeling.  Like wanting to throw up the whole time.)

This may not be news to any Irish pirates, but I just discovered something called a Hot Toddy yesterday. Whiskey, hot water, brown sugar, lemon and clove and by god if it isn't delicious in winter. I think I found a new favourite drink. It's a shame the faux Irish pub I found it in charges 5€60 for it because they go through the trouble of pretending to be Irish. Bastards.

Oh, and I'm sorry for going horribly off-topic, but streetchicers is also a MTS2 member and has a free blog on Blogger. Also, has that 'outlet' always been there?
(Emphasis mine)
So telling her about free alternatives is obviously pointless, she knows. This is greed, pure and simple. Not that that's news, but yeah...

I drink tea with cream and sugar. I like mint teas, green teas and regular tea (Earl Gray is my favorite). Being from the South in the USA, I love sweet Iced Tea. And yes, when I went to Las Vegas recently and asked for sweet iced tea they thought I was nuts. Most every restaurant around here where I live has sweet iced tea.

I like coffee, but with a lot of cream and sugar. One of my good friends quit drinking and found coffee. He drinks it black.

I live in Northern Ireland and I can say that I have never heard of that, not even in a passing conversation, it sounds tempting however.
I will ask at college if anyone has heard of it, if they have, I'm going on a mission to find one :D.

Bleh. Sugary tea = do not want. Sorry Skoria_Bay but in my eyes putting sugar in tea is a total abomination. The odd occasion I've accidently drank my bro's sugary tea instead of my own, it's actually made me retch. I do put loads of sugar in my coffee though.

My flatmates and I are constantly drinking tea. when we first moved in over the summer, the local supermarket had twinings on special offer, so we bought about 500 bags of it. The cashier thought we were nuts. Twinings is brilliant, it's strong so you can use one tea bag for a couple of cups if you're a poor student like us. Plus Stephen Fry told us to drink it, and you cna't argue with him! I'm a brit, so tea is pretty integral to life. It's my parents answer to everything: stressed? ill? upset? too cold? too hot? The answer is always tea.

As for coffee, I never used to like it before uni. Now I love the stuff, whether it's the cheap rats piss from the SU, the expensive rats piss from Starbucks, or a fresh homemade brew, I'm not particularly discerning. Coffee is my lifesaver when I'm hungover in lectures, or have to stay up all night writing an essay, as was the case last weekend. I don't even want to know how much caffeine I drank that night...

Oh also, don't know if this has been mentioned, but has anyone tried Red Bush tea? It's caffeine free so it's perfect before bedtime and it's yummy to boot!

Oh please ask around, I'd like to know. It's possible the guy who runs the place just made something up. (How do you even manage to hold down an Irish pub that doesn't serve Guinness and just has Jameson and Johny Walker for whiskey? He's not even trying anymore.) Doesn't make it any less delicious though.  :)

Regarding the issue of outdoor peeing: A number of years ago, I took a master class in composting (yeah yeah, I know - P&L away  ;))  Anywho, the instructor suggested, at one point, that if you're a guy, or you have a guy, it's beneficial to the compost pile to have him "water" it now and then.  Hubby tells me he obliges me that way when he thinks to.  Sweet man.   :D  (Hell, if I was a guy, I'd do it!)

Nah - it's more Scottish as far as I'm aware. They're great when you're sick - the whiskey, lemon and cloves soothe your throat and make you not care you are sick. 

 My grandmother used to make us hot toddy's when we were sick as kids. She wouldn't make it really strong, but we would drink it and pass out.  :D  When we woke up we would feel better. It does make your throat feel so much better.

See, I am actualy Scottish, my folks and I have only recently (since June) moved to Northern Ireland, and when Devilfish described that drink, I did think that it sounded more Scottish for some reason.

And how can they NOT serve Guinness?! That is an insult to the Norhern Irish by calling it an Irish bar and not serve that :D.

EDIT:

Tabby, would that also work with the Flu? I have such a bad case of it at the moment, I believe it is man-flu I have.

 Anytime we had any sort of chest congestion, or sore throats we got it. I guess the heat helps to break all that gunk up, and the lemon and cloves soothe your throat.  It should work for your "man flu". 

We always made our hot toddies with tea, fresh lemon, honey, and  a goodly amount of Jack Daniels (black label).  After a couple of them, you don't care that your sick!

Coffee smells nice, but I hate the taste of it.  I don't smoke cigarettes.  I don't drink alcohol.  Food used to be my vice.  Since I lost weight, food is only a way to stay alive now.  Tea is good though.  I usually drink green tea.

Wow, that would not be my lifestyle, you must have the discipline of a monk. I love food, love indulging, I don't even care if I'm not thin anymore, I prefer being chubby. I'm not going to see the other side of 50, probably, but I hear it's not so great anyway  :D

I love food. Loving and preparing food yourself is actually a really good way to eat healthily. I know exactly what I'm eating, and know how to make it taste yummy.

I drink alcohol only occasionally, and only a little bit then. It has nothing to do with discipline; I get drunk super-quick and I don't like being drunk. I also get massive hangovers. I don't drink much coffee, I'd usually rather have hot chocolate or tea, though I do like coffee. As for cigarettes, they're utterly disgusting.

My mom used to make me non-alcoholic hot toddies when I was sick. I think I'll make some with alcohol for the holidays this year. My grandmother always used to make whiskey sours for Christmas Eve, so that's our tradition now.

Mine always made them with booze, and if she didn't have the honey and lemon, would make me just drink straight shots of Ameretto and tell me -not- to sip it, but to drink it fast.

Worked wonders for colds and sore throats though, and I always got a goos night sleep.

Funny thing, my mom is half german-american and half-slavik american, and my dad is almost entirely of german descent, but we still did the same drink.  I don't know if they ever called it a Hot Toddy though, and I don't know that it was whiskey of any sort.

And Devilfish, that sounds like most of the Irish pubs here, except they actually have good irish drinks, its the lack of irish pub -food- that's lacking...lean corn beef?

Well, I don't smoke.  None of my friends do either.  I drink.  Not as much as Amy Winehouse - not by a quarter.  But I do like a good quality wine, champagne, or cocktail.  (Can't stand beer.  Don't understand why so many people do.  Its disgusting.  Give me a good rose, shiraz, grenache, viogner or bubbly any day.)  Love food.  Good quality stuff.  None of that flavourless deep fried mush some people think is food. Kalamata olives are always good nibblies, a nice triple cream brie.  A well cooked pasta (had a sensational one last night - fettucine puttanesca).  I'm an absolute huge fan of mexican food.  Can't beat nachos covered with sour cream, guacamole, salsa and frijoles.  Or tacos, - with guacamole.  Lurve greek food - sadly husband doesn't, so I rarely get a chance.  Love baklava.  Its sweet but so, so good.  Oh, and chocolate moose, with good chocolate.  And fondue - got a wicked fondue recipe that involves good chocolate, double cream and a dash of Grand Marnier.

Do believe in eating healthy though.  Not just because I medical condition which requires me to try and stick to low GI foods.  But it can taste so much better.  Some people are fooled into thinking that if they binge eat on junk food it will make them feel good.  And it does - for a brief amount of time.  But from that great height, you can end up experiencing even worse lows, which means you eat more of the said bad food.  Your weight gains, and you feel more depressed - its a biological fact, and the whole thing is a vicious, vicious cycle - the worse you eat the worse you feel.  And further more, there are the carb cravings - the desire for fatty, sugary food.  Stop eating that stuff for a month, and you cease to want it, need it, or even enjoy it.  I can stand deep fried food now - makes me feel all icky and slimy inside. 

Still have two sugars in my cup of tea, though  ;)

Meanie, I do entirely low carb. I have eaten this way for a couple of years now, and I've lost weight (a bunch) and I am not sick as often, nor as severely as I used to get when I ate a high carb diet. The "real" non-lowfat, non-fried foods that I eat are so satisfying. I'll never go back to the way of eating I did before.

I totally shun grains of any kind, and eat only low GI fruits and lower carb veggies, along with meats. Real butter is unbeatable, and I have it daily. Oh, also dark chocolate, my personal favorite...I indulge in that quite often. I'm in fabulous health according to my doctor, though no one wants to hear why...the going wisdom still seems to lean more toward those who believe that healthy means the opposite of the way I eat.

I'm definitely a meatitarian...it's a personal choice.  ;)

I like beer, though I have wine (usually a favorite brand of Merlot) more often than not.

I've noticed that in winter, my cravings for carbs and fatty foods go up, but I attribute that to my build: think short polar bear with plenty of pudge to keep warm. :D I'm also a total fan of meats, poultry and fish. Right now, though, what I want is a salad with lots of baby spinach leaves with creamy French dressing made by Newman's Own, that stuff is to kill for.

I haven't eaten fast food in over 10 years. The only fatty food I buy now is Pizza from a gourmet place two suburbs over. Had an awesome one last night with artichokes, onion, chilli, grilled eggplant and fetta cheese. Sure it's not calorie conscious, but it's good fresh food. So I don't feel guilty about it. Yeah I smoke, and I know how gross it is to people who don't smoke. But it's something, I really enjoy for now. They will lose their novelty soon (again) and I will quit for good. I usually come back to them, but I am approaching my third decade and don't want to do irreversible damage to my system. So they have to go, I don't know how I feel about that. *lights cigarette*

So no Macdonalds, no Kentucky, no Red Rooster, no Pizza Hut or Dolminos. I hate those franchises with a passion, just looking at the food makes me queasy. I'm going to gross everyone out for a minute here and say that fast food  reminds me of poop. I look at a cheeseburger and think... "That brown greasy thing, is going to look the exact texture and colour coming out. Gross!" and have no problem going to a cafe and ordering a fresh salad pumkin bread roll instead. I am obsessed with pumpkin bread atm, it's so delicious. It tastes like pumpkin scone, but with a shiner buttery texture. It's super awesome :D I am going to learn how to make it :) I think since it's summer I am preferring vegetarian like meals, not so heavy on the system. :)

I'm 5'2". I still have some pudge, but that gets less as time wears on.

I used to crave the same things in the winter, absolutely. When one does the low carb deal, after about a month (on average) ones cravings change. It's what Meanie was talking about - when you eat carbs you tend to crave even more carbs. It's the carbs+fat combo that makes most people hold on to excess weight (and winter months are worst for that). Even with the weight I've lost I'm totally warmer now than I used to be in the winter(and I hate being cold, I hate winter, BLAH!). My metabolism has changed.

That salad sounds freaking awesome...though I'd probably have mine with Newman's Own ranch or bleu cheese! Must go raid fridge now for some baby spinach...I know I have some!

I learned how to make pies last night - and discussed with our teacher if she thought stevia and agave syrup would be good substitutes - she thinks they will, but isn't sure.

For pumpkin its not such a huge deal - it deson't take alot of sugar to begin with, and just needs a bit of sweet.  Pecan pie though....its basically sugar, corn syrup and some pecans....so

Thing is, the other diabetic in the house currently refuses to try it and keeps saying that narrow slivers is all he'll eat.  I might pick up a second pie pan and make me one as an experiment, though I'm more partial to pumpkin and its overall better.

Could offer to make a sweet potato one - that doesn't even need sugar.

I used to have baby spinach in the crisper until the husband let the cat know I had it. Then she played all cute and loving with him and he rewarded her with my spinach. The cat is totally obsessed with it, even preferring it over catnip. Damn brat... :D

Your cat eats spinach?! Wow, there's one I haven't heard before. Although my cat has a strange affection for rice; any time I have cooked rice, she works tirelessly to get her nose in to the bowl, then whines when I push her away.

Paden, I really like Newman's lite Balsamic Vinaigrette. I haven't had French dressing in a while but I'll probably be cycling back into it sooner or later. Good to know Newman makes one.

Just discovered pineapple pie through a client who gave me one as gift. Same as any cream pie, I suppose (I'm not exactly down with the whole baking thing): Canned pineapple, a little flour or cornstarch, mix it up, stew it a little while, pour it in a ready made Graham cracker pie crust, smother it with whipped cream (low fat in my case) and refrigerate until it sets. Then smash up even more Graham crackers and sprinkle them all over the top. I thought it was going to be sharp with an acidic taste but it's not - it's surprisingly good (even the one I made). Neither version comes even close to being as good as my mom's pineapple upside down cake, but since she only drops off one of one of those about once a year (if I'm lucky), these might satisfy the craving I have for it every now and then. But probably not.

Stevia...just use it sparingly. It starts to taste funny/bitter in short order if you use even slightly too much. I still haven't perfected its use, though I'd like to as it's a natural sweetener. I tend to use Splenda for baking. It works well. I have a recipe for sugar free pumpkin pie with a pecan praline crust. PM me if you'd like the recipe. It's been a hit in my household even with those who don't watch their sugar consumption.

As far as diabetic-friendly pecan pie, this recipe is pretty good: http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/recipes/recipe-specialty15.html (http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/recipes/recipe-specialty15.html)

Diabetes runs in my family (later onset), but I can't have very many sugar free items because the sweetener they use in commercial products is usually aspartame and I'm a phenylketonuric. It's kind of a pain in the ass. I have to restrict my diet pretty hard.

I can't eat a lot of meat. I have to moderate my grains. I basically live off of fruit and veggies. I drink soy milk, eat tofu. I might as well be an involuntary vegan, but I just love me a hamburger every once in a while.

You could just give up food entirely and starve to death. It'd save you a lot of bother in the long run.

I suppose, but somehow being dead just doesn't seem as fun.

Well, finally in the states we're supposed to be seeing more switchover to stevia.

I can't use aspertame since it gives me headaches and makes me dumb, and splenda and nutrasweet both slow down your metabolism and are actually -bad- for diabetics and anyone trying to lose weight.

I did bookmark that recipe.  I got a recipe for normal pumpkin pie from my class, as well as for pecan.  Having had a pie using this same recipe with no sugar at all, I expect a pack or maybe two for the whole pie, with maybe a bit extra cinnamon to add a bit more sweet should do it.

As for pecan, she thinks that it should work with agave syrup, which is another natural sweetner.

And the pie crust is a bit like sugar free shortbread.  Granted, flour isn't so good for diabetics either, but I bet I could find a whole grain all-purpose flour to substitute, and its not like there is much per piece.

The FDA is stubborn in approving Stevia as a sweetener. I wish they'd hurry up!

As for artificial sweeteners slowing metabolism, or being bad for diabetics...it's such an individual thing. It doesn't effect me, but my mother (who is diabetic) is effected. I am not diabetic, I am hypoglycemic, but it doesn't seem to stop me or slow me down metabolism wise, nor blood sugar wise.

I wish you the best on the pie. Yes, try the whole grain flour, or perhaps even almond flour?

All these artificial sweetners and plants that you guys get in America we can't get over her.  Why, the Australian Pharmaceutical Association has deemed them dangerous for some reason or another.  Same for a great many herbal remedies.  Insane.  And getting them sent to Australia can be extremely difficult, as a consequence of strict quarrantine laws.  One of the products in my husbands network marketing business we have difficulty getting because it contains barley seeds.  Seeds cannot be imported to Australia, as are the majority of plant or animal products.

We can get stevia, but I haven't seen agave syrup in the shops for a while (which is crazy because the authorities permit mezcal with the worm in the bottle.)

I've got PCOS, which is a pre-diabetic state, which means if I'm not careful, it could swing the other way and bring on full blown diabetes.  Its a hormone-insulin thing, but doctors don't know what causes it.  Stevia seems to make me hyper like I've had too much sugar, for some reason.  Meaning possibly that its spiking my insulin levels.  Aspartme and the likes don't really affect me weightwise or anything like that, but I still avoid them as they've been found to be toxic, making them worse than cane sugar.  Aspartme actually breaks down into formaldehyde in the body, which is incredibly dangerous.

Meanie have you ever thought of taking cinnamon pills to help with your sugar level?  I have PCOS also and take Avandia, and cinnamon supplements to help.  PM me if you want to exchange info.

Formaldehyde? Way to go, chemists, let's do the work of the embalmers while we're still alive and save them a bit of the work, shall we? Jeeesh, you'd think they'd do a bit more research before shit hits the local supermarket shelves, huh? No wonder that stuff makes me deathly ill. Thanks for the warning, Meanie! Note to self: feed mother-in-law stuff with aspartame. :D

I have a friend that is actually allergic to aspartme. She also has PCOS, so... who knows. I actually had to stop her from drinking another friend's soda once, cause it was a diet soda (with, you guessed it, aspartame)

I actually don't like any artifical sweeteners. Well, I tolerate Splenda. All the others... Blergh. One of my other friends refers to Sweet-n-low as "Cancer in a packet"

If it's not real sugar or honey, I don't want it near me.

Aspartame info (http://www.dorway.com/) Found that while Googling on the subject.

I would love to read the info on that site, Paden..

but it's a graphic designer's nightmare. They used the default font Papyrus, for God's sake! Am I the only one who refuses to go to sites if they're ugly, no matter what good they may hold? :P

Aspartame also makes me incredibly nauseous. A friend put some Sweet n Low in my coffee once, not realising I couldn't have aspartame, and I was down for the count for the next 24 hours.

What gets me about aspartme is that its in all the your diet foods, and in large quantities in diet soft drink.  Meaning that we are all getting slowly poisoned.  Because of that, I tend to avoid foods with artifical sweeteners.  I mean, yeah, sure less sugar.  No way, moar poison instead.

I'd rather have high amounts of natural sugars, than to consume fake chemical sugar that can have some potentially serious side effects. So what if its a few more minutes on the treadmill/a smaller serving size? Fake foods scare me.

Also, since many people don't lose weight and often gain it while on diet sweetners, they keep buying more and more diet foods.  Seriously, the FDA is getting kickbacks and has been for a long time.  Maybe it will eventually get taken care of.

As for the stevia thing - there is a loophole in Federal laws.  If it is -patently- obvious that its safe, it can still be used/sold as food and not herbal supplement.  So, I can buy stevia mixes much cheaper now, and any day now, Coke and Pepsi both are supposed to start using it for their US products.

White sugar is bad for you too - its full of chemicals from the process to make it all shimmery white.  So, when I do use sugar I try and get the raw stuff.

Stevia Cafe (http://www.steviacafe.net/dangers-of-splenda) Because I like to help. :D

I think most of you posting here are buying in waaay too easily to the belief that artificial sweeteners are poisonous and bad for you. While I admit that are many hysterical websites up with (fairly unsupported) claims that artificial sweeteners like aspartame are dangerous, most of the claims on these websites rely on logical fallacies, poorly reported studies, fear mongering and/or have their own products they hope to push forward (including the websites you've linked to Paden, I'm sorry).

Even if the claim sounds like it could be true (or is true, as in the case of formaldehyde being produced by digesting aspartame; of course, if you're worried about that, you had better give up eating tomatoes or oranges as they produce much higher levels of formaldehyde in digestion! ;)), you should never, ever accept something as fact without reading both sides, finding unbiased websites (and please try to avoid assuming that the government must be lying to you e.g. the FDA), and looking up the actual studies on the topic yourself (Google scholar is a marvel for that kids ;)). And since I feel like the current discussion has gotten a bit paranoid and unbalanced, I wanted to post up a few links about the topic on my own. These are for the most part about aspartame, but if you force me (please don't force me :P) I can find stuff for other food additives as well. So here you go:

A Skeptoid podcast about aspartame from a couple of weeks ago (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4127)
An article from Health Canada that addresses several aspartame claims (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/addit/sweeten-edulcor/aspartame-eng.php) and a short report on its safety from them as well (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/addit/sweeten-edulcor/aspartame_statement-eng.php)
The Wiki entry on aspartame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame) and their link to some info about the "aspartame controversy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy) (and so Calalily doesn't kill me, please check the external links! There are some good links within to actual studies by actual scientists ;))
The Urban Legend Zeitgeist report on a fear mongering email about aspartame (http://tafkac.org/ulz/nutrasweet.html)
Snopes report on a fear mongering email about aspartame (http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp)
The FDA's report on aspartame (http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00772.html)
The European Food Safety Authority's report on aspartame (http://www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/efsa_locale-1178620753812_1178620765743.htm)
The Food Additive Approval Process for Aspartame by the FDA (http://archive.gao.gov/d28t5/133460.pdf)
Scoop - Independent News story about the NZFSA's comments on aspartame fear mongering (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0708/S00054.htm)

If you want more I can find you more (phew!), but I was trying to link to some easier to read (or listen) bits of info for everybody. Have fun with the reading, everyone! :D

Mando, my information comes directly from Prevention Magazine and multiple diabetic nutritionists.  Whatever else, artificial sweeteners are bad for you.  There is also a case that artificial fats are also bad for you.  Artificial sweeteners basically mess up your metabolism.

I agree with Mando. For those of us here who are in the sciences irl (and I know there are a few) there are too many studies one would need to read before believing some of those scary "artificial sweeteners will kill you" sites. I believe in everything (well, most things) in moderation anyway.

Thanks Mando, for those links.

I've never had a problem with any artificial sweetener stalling my weight loss or messing up my metabolism, and I'd have to estimate that at age 44 I've consumed probably more than my fair share. Everyone is different though, so your own mileage may vary. ;)

And I only eat real fats, even saturated fats, and my cholesterol and BP are phenomenal. Wasn't always like that for me, so I'm pretty psyched about being in the pink of health.

Sorry, I'm not going to be convinced by arguments from authority (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Argument_from_Authority) or anecdotal evidence (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Anecdotal_evidence). While Prevention magazine may have many helpful, healthful bits of advice for the reader, it is also very obviously a business with its own products to push forward (as a matter of fact many of the links on its webpage go directly to advertisments and pushes for the reader to spend money to get healthy). As for the diabetic nutrionists, this basically tells me nothing; I don't know who these nutrionists are, I don't know what they've said and I don't know what they're basing their opinions on. Not exactly a great standard for evidence.

If you can find for me several good, large scale, blinded studies I'll give these claims a little more weight, but without that, this is nothing more than opinion.

But I never said it was lethal, just it was bad for you.  Thing is, I've reached the conclusion in 40-something...I mean 36 years that artificial foods are bad for me, in general.  Stevia has been told to me by many nutritionists to either lower blood sugar, or at least not raise it - its also more environmentally friendly and -tastes- better.

I don't think stevia tastes better, but to each their own. I always try to eat whole, unprocessed foods as much as possible. Frankly, sugar is poison to me because I'm hypoglycemic...it makes me pass out. Hypoglycemia is a precursor to Diabetes. If I eat anything that contains sugar or too many carbohydrates (which metabolize as sugar in the body) I'm setting up my system to crash and burn. Most of what I eat isn't sweet, artificially or naturally, so the scant amount of sweetener I ingest now I'm not too worried about.

I think we as a society here in the U.S. (where I am) eat way too much sugar and artificial junk all the time. Have you checked out the amounts of corn syrup in packaged foods on the grocery shelves? I'm more worried about that crap than most other food additives, myself.

Meh. I've never met an artificial sweetener which didn't give me a migraine within 30 minutes of consuming it, so I avoid them like the plague. I also mercilessly mock people I see using 'em, but I do that in private. It's more like "hehehe, fake sugar is dumb, lol" than a vicious thing though, if it makes you feel any better about ignoring my opinions.  :P

Oh how the mighty have fallen with their Wiki-linkage. :D Saying 'check the external links' will not save you!

As for aspartame or anything else - I minimise as much as my exposure as possible.  I don't like artificial sweetener tastes - tastes just like sugar my arse - plus, I know that case studies are not infallible, and some scientific studies have identified potential problems.  Since it is largely unnecessary to have MOAR chemicals, I would prefer to have less.

Pffft! And she ignores the 18 billion other links I put up :P :D (and, I doubt dear Calalily wants to be reminded of her own wiki wanderings (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,1610.msg119651.html#msg119651); I have more too! Ha, ha! Blackmail! :D). It's true that case studies are not infallible (on both sides of things), but blinded experiments and tests are pretty much the best way to really understand what is actually happening with both the product and the human body. Besides the more (good) tests that are done the closer we get to the truth of things; there are many small studies which show effects that disappear when re-tested with better controls and larger groups.

Plus, I'm hardly arguing for its tastiness, it does taste like crap (imo), and I don't use it myself (although I do prefer diet coke to regular coke, heh). However, I also just think accepting claims like many of those presented here on such scant and spotty evidence is not the best way to go.

I am truly and deeply shamed I could not find an empirical study on macros and memes.  :D


I agree - I think the case studies are pretty solid - I did look for anti-aspartame studies, but found their logic non-logical.  One of the studies proposed that because brain tumours were increasing in the population as a whole, then aspartame might be the cause. Pfffft with extra fft. That's like trying to find the carcinogenic link for cancer in the rise of emoism.


I can't stand diet coke, and I'm not much fond of coke. I prefer Aussie brands, although I did find some IRN BRU at the supermarket the other day and am looking forward to trying it.  I didn't think you were advocating tastiness - I made a new paragraph to separate ma thoughts.  :-*

Well, studies have found that research is the leading cause of cancer in rats.

Don't toy with me! I told you I have more! MORE! BE AFRAID! >:( :D


Not a huge fan of coke of any sort either, but if I was forced to drink a cola I would choose diet coke every single time (despite its bizarre, chemical after taste). Regular coke tastes so syrupy to me, and it hurts my teeth. Blech. I've never tried Irn Bru, but it sounds tasty.


See! Research wins again! :D

I think a study could reliably find that lab techs with injectables are the leading cause of cancer in rats. :D


All with mando disclaimers. :P Fearing you now. :D


Makes my teeth feel chalky - Irn Bru was recommended by some pirates here, so hopefully they weren't talking shit. :D

IRN BRU RULES ALL!

*ahem*

No really, its bloody gorgeous! Its a Scottish soft drink and we drink it by the gallon :D We even have it on tap in places like McDonalds.

There's a British grocery store here in SF that carries it (and the guy who owns it has a Christmas Dr. Who display, which is epic), and I was thinking about trying it.

What exactly DOES it taste like?

To me its got a fruity taste to it, but that opinion varies from person to person. Nobody knows whats in it as its been brewed in secret for 100 years and the ingredients list is very vague because of that.

Here's a link about it: http://www.irn-bru.co.uk/our-drinks.html - only two people know the recipie and what the 32 flavourings they use are.

And I'm drinking a glass as we speak ;D

I'm pretty sure I'm actually allergic to something in cola drinks, because they all give me a bad headache after drinking a single sip. Coca-Cola is the worst offender.

Heartless, do you drink any type of drink with caffeine in it? Because if you don't, it could be the caffeine giving you the head ache.

That's what I thought too, but I drink Dr. Pepper, iced coffee, and Mountain Dew without a problem. Then I thought, maybe it's the particular brown dye they use in Coca-Cola?

Pes, that is extremely origional, mate *voice dripping with sarcasm*  :)

I find it odd that despite growing up on Irn Bru's hilarious TV adverts, and the fact that the stuff can be bought just about anywhere in the UK, I've never actually tried it. :(

I have found a better solution to this: keep eating sweets. Mainline them. Sure, you'll develop diabetes earlier and your toes will fall off, but you'll have more fun.

Seriously, though, I'm hypoglycemic, as are about half of my cousins. I used to have major issues with it back in high school. Sugars do not make me pass out. I try to control how many sweets that I have only because I would eat nothing but sweets if left to my own devices. I've found that hypoglycemia is easy to control as long as I'm careful to get plenty of protein (already a concern for my partial-vegetarianism) and deal with my stress. Stress causes my blood sugar to plummet. An egg in the morning and I'm energized and feeling balanced for the whole day.

I'm not familiar with Stevia. We have Splenda, which is coming into question (http://www.womentowomen.com/nutritionandweightloss/splenda.aspx). I hate it. It's absolutely disgusting and has an awful edge to it to me, while others say it tastes just like sugar. Now, I prefer Sweet & Low, but I do use sugar when baking and with coffee at home. It does not taste like sugar.

I hate every artificial sweetener too. They taste disgusting -- why on earth would I eat a cookie that tastes gross? If I want to eat something I don't like, it may as well be something that's good for me. When I want something sweet and tasty, I'll have sugar or honey, thanks.

I've taken to using honey instead of sugar on stuff where I only need a small quantity. I prefer the taste of honey.

For tea, I've moved from honey to agave nectar. I've found that just a little of the stuff goes a long, long way. Cost-wise, I'm actually spending less on it than I was on honey. Be warned though, it contains massive levels of fructose (you almost have to use it sparingly).

Honey is supposed to be really good for you though, and like stevia, is a renewable resource.  Which is to say, no plants are destroyed in the process.  I don't know about Agave syrup though, but its good to hear about a little going a long way - I'd hate to think how sweet a pecan pie made with that would be if I substituted one for one.

Ugh! I hate honey! I wish I liked it, but then I know I am weird about sugar. For example, I hate frosting. Even when I was a kid, I would scrape all the frosting off my cake and just eat the cake.

I just hope someone figures out the reason for Colony Collapse Disorder with the honey bees.

Honey off the grocers shelves isn't as good for you as raw honey. I love this stuff (http://www.reallyrawhoney.com/). It's not heated to high temps like the honey in the grocery store, so it still maintains all of its good enzymes and antibiotic properties.

I never liked honey before I tried the raw honey. I can't get it all the time because I'll eat the whole damn jar and be in a sugar coma!

ETA: Okay, I evidently don't know how to hyperlink on this phorum...sorry.

ETA2: I phail, dusdeedawn for the WIN! Thanks, mate.

I found this thing here (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php?action=help;page=post) to be fairly handy.  :)

Sadly, honey may not be so renewable a source if what they say about the honey bees dying out is true.

I get my honey from a local apiary.  And that would be awful.  Is it because of the 'killer' bees?

That would be a good place to get honey as well. Is it raw? I'd love to find a local apiary...not any very close to me, unfortunately.

No, I don't think it's related to the killer bees. They aren't sure what might be causing it, but the bee population has been drastically reduced. Whole hives...vanishing.

De-lurks

A while ago I heard that mobile phones may have a role in the declining numbers of honey bees, something to do with the radiation emitted by mobile phones interfering with the bees navigation system. 

One could also assume that dramatic changes in the climate might have contributed to the decrease in numbers of honey bees. In my specific region, which was once famous for it's wild thyme honey, honey producers are practically destroyed. In the past you could get homegrown honey just about everywhere. These days, due to the decline in local production and big companies mustling in, you need to have connection to buy the really good stuff.
(Plus in an effort to stop a little tax-evation on homegrown-homesold products, the idiots who rule my country have gone on an advertising campain warning that home produced honey and oil can be dangerous. If only they had spent the ad money on something worth while, like a better health care system or a better education system. Rant over  ;D)

Naw, it's not cell phones. I guess they've discovered that it's a sort of fungus (http://science.slashdot.org/science/07/04/27/1724239.shtml).

I'm hypoglycemic as well, but my diet doesn't seem to affect me. I could eat sweets all day and sugar galore, and only feel slightly nauseous. Its only when I don't eat that I get dizzy, faint, blurry vision, etc. My doctor says its because I have a high metabolism, and when my metabolism slows down, my hypoglycemic issues may disappear also. I literally have to eat like, 5-6 times a day, constantly snacking, or else I feel I sick. I don't get the jacked up sugar rushes, the caffeine buzzes either. I don't drink a lot of caffeine. I've drank regular soda (20 oz or so) maybe twice in the last two months. It seems to be a monthly thing with me and soda, but it mostly has to do with the carbonation more than the caffeine. I feel like I can't breathe when I drink soda, thanks to chronic allergies.

I eat carbs all the time. Complex carbs mostly, and I have a steady easily maintainable weight, unless I have an episode where I faint, get dizzy, etc, and then I can lose like, 10-15 pounds in a matter of days. I'm 5'4"ish and usually no more than 125lbs soaking wet and fully clothed, 2000-2500 calories daily, 50/40/10 c/p/f ratio for the most part. I'm also anemic and have low blood pressure also. Luckily, I like red meat and raw spinach and iron-rich foods, so its not too bad.

It could even be all of the above, human technology + climate change + disease.  In fact, the sheer numbers of bees that are dying out points to there being more then one factor at play here.  

I generally tend to question the research that links aspartame with brain tumours, even though there have been a few write ups in the Lancet about it.  But the issue with the formaldehyde - yes.  People don't drink as much booze and tomato juice as they do other food, now do they..  Sure normal food has formaldehyde in it.  Just like the potato plant is related to Deadly Nightshade, which has arsenic in it (although its not the leaves that we eat now, is it).  But the problem is the amount of food people tend to eat with aspartame in it, and the levels of aspartame in that said food.  Sure, formaldehyde is a natural chemical process.  But the levels that are being consumed are not natural or safe.

Don't pay so much attention to what is said on wiki, a lot of it has been written by a PR officer for the FDA which is in cahoots with the pharamceutical companies, who actually make the aspartame.  Its not in the companies best interest to take an impartial stance on the issue. No money in it for them, you see.  Cross reference, and don't just stick to stuff published on the internet, as the validity of a lot of stuff online is often questionable at best.

At the end of the day, Honeyeaters, we ain't.  We've got a different metabolism to them.  I hand raised a honeyeater once.  It loved honey, and fruit syrup and honey dipped pears, and all things sweet.  But it needed the sugar levels.  We don't.  We're omnivorous, which means we need sugar, but we also need a lot of other things too.

Maybe I'm a nitpicker Meanie, but we actually don't need sugar, not even as omnivores. Gluconeogenesis does the job handily, without a body ever ingesting a molecule of sugar/carb.

I've gone for a long, long time without carbs (though I am low carb, not no carb at this time) and nothing adverse happened to me. On the contrary, I was left in much better health for it.

I think you're right on when you mention the difference between our metabolism and the Honeyeaters...a human body can't metabolize all that sugar and not have something out of whack afterward, even if it's not immediate...could be later down the line. It makes one wonder why everyone is so surprised by the obesity epidemic and the extreme rise in the numbers of type 2 diabetics when we tend to eat a lot of things that a human should think twice about before ingesting. And I'm not even talking about the non-natural, chemical laden sweeteners (which I am not opposed to having every now and again, lol).

I can't do no-carb without my doctor deciding my kidneys are in danger, from the ketones.  Since I'd rather not be on extra meds, I'll have to stick to lowish carbs, as much as I did feel better on no-carbs, as well as losing weight.

I stand corrected. My mom brought home a bag of celery last night and my cat made love to it like it were the greatest catnip ever grown.

Well there is actually only one thing we eat that doesn't contain carbs (fats or sugars) and that is water.  Everything else does.  Remember: Sucrose and glucose aren't the only sugars.  There's also fructose and lactose.  Which means there is sugar in fruit and vegetables, in dairy products of any description.

For most of us (with the exception of course, being Pescado :D ), require glucose to fuel to brain.  We need it to learn, and to think properly. A lack of glucose in the the bloodstream results in a lack of the ability to concentrate.  But we only need a small amount, not of the refined nature found in many foods.

You're right - prolonged low blood sugar leads to brain damage.  So, low blood sugar is possibly worse than high.  Unfortunately, high blood sugar can mess up circulation, and high enough, your body won't heal at all [ 180 ]

I guess at the end of the day, its all about moderation.

You are mistaken, Meanie. Water isn't the only thing without carbs, though it is calorie free. Fats aren't carbs. They are a macronutrient in and of themselves. Proteins aren't carbs, also being a macronutrient in and of themselves. Grains and vegetables and fruits all have carbs, though they may also contain fat, and protein.

If the glucose required to fuel the brain doesn't come from a dietary source, our body makes it. Actually, the brain functions quite nicely running on ketones.

Pescado is a rare breed I've heard. No telling what his brain runs on, but I won't question it too much. ;)

That's the thing though...I eat 20 grams or less of carbs most days. My blood sugar is the most stable it ever has been. I don't have the peaks and valleys in my blood glucose I had when I was not eating low carb. I've been on every way of eating known to man...this is the only way of eating that has stabilized my blood glucose, without ingesting sugars in my diet, for the most part.

You all realize we've totally derailed the original thread topic? Oops...

I'm pretty sure Pescado's brain runs on the crushed hopes and dreams of children.

BWAHAHAHAHA! Okay, that was too good.  ;D

I think you may be right!

Fats are converted by the body become carbohydrates.  Same as bread.

Some links I came across on carbs and the brain:  just something quickly googled.

http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html (http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html)
http://scienceweek.com/2004/sc041112-4.htm (http://scienceweek.com/2004/sc041112-4.htm)

Excess fat in the diet can be stored, and any macronutrient can be converted by the body into glucose, that is true. But that is only when needed.

I could link and link, and draw diagrams of the processes, and google to support things all night and day. But I won't do that. If anyone is interested in finding out more about a low carb way of eating look up Dr. Mike Eades blog, check out Livin' La Vida Low Carb. They are experts. I am a lowly layman. But, I do have a medical/science background, so for what that's worth...

I'm not going to argue with you, Meanie, I don't think you want to argue either, but I'm having a glass of wine and chilling, so for me I'm done debating...at least at the moment. LOL

I'm just stating what I know to be true for me, and what I've learned from my research on the subject.

Also, a worthy (but truly dry) read is Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. A lot of good, solid information in the book, and references to the research on the topic of low carb eating.

That, I can agree with you on.  I bounce a lot of my research off my sister and mother who are both high level Registered Nurses.  They have a much better understanding of how the body works, and are both right into health and nutritian.  They are usually interested in the research too, and can explain facts and information surrounding the research that isn't entirely covered in the report. Also, husband and I market products.  No good marketing something you don't know shit about.

But people do eat a lot of citrus fruit, tomatoes, wine, etc., all of which produce formaldehyde in digestion. And even if they don't eat a lot of any one thing, they do generally eat many of these foods throughout the week in combination (i.e. grapefruit in the morning, tomato juice or a tomato based soup at lunch, a glass of wine with dinner, a mandarin orange for a snack, being as it is the winter time after all ;)). My everyday diet is apparently an invitation to death! :D

You make several references to the "dangerous" amounts of aspartame people are eating, but you haven't linked to any empirical data for this. Do you have any references for the daily amount of aspartame eaten by the general population of any country? Any (good) studies linking strongly high amounts of aspartame consumption to disease?


Absolutely, you shouldn't trust everything you read on the wiki; however, you can use it as a starting point to move to more information. And you should absolutely be skeptical of anything you read on the internet (especially all of those "Aspartame is poison!" sites ;)) and really break it apart and see where the information has come from first. There are many studies about aspartame and human health and it's a good idea to get your hands on those before making claims for either side (even if it's only the ones posted on the evil, lying internet). Quick note: you also might want to dial back from the conspiracy theories as well... just saying.

I was reading about the dangers of aspartame before there really -was- an internet, back during Desert Storm.  I've known quite a few people who get horrible headaches when they drink it, myself included.   I do end up touching a little bit on occasion and I always regret it later as my body just gets pissed off at me.

I personally try and avoid all artificial stuff - unfortunately, I live with three guys who could care and enjoy junk.  Its hard to get something healthier when it involves two trips instead of one, or going to two different food places.

Okay, here's a few then

http://www.ehso.com/ehso.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.holisticmed.com/aspartame/uk.txt (http://www.ehso.com/ehso.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.holisticmed.com/aspartame/uk.txt)
(granted, the author the said piece is into holistic medicine.

http://www.ehso.com/ehso.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.holisticmed.com/aspartame/aspfaq.htm (http://www.ehso.com/ehso.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.holisticmed.com/aspartame/aspfaq.htm)l
(a fully fledged report concerning Monsanto's research procedures ) and in particular check this one out : http://www.ehso.com/ehso.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.holisticmed.com/aspartame/aspfaq.html (http://www.ehso.com/ehso.php?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.holisticmed.com/aspartame/aspfaq.html)

Have also got a link of 100 empirical tests, some showing for and against.  And one that completely debunked the idea that aspartame helps with weightloss.  From a scientific standpoint it states that all tests are inconclusive, but is cautionary considering the number of people who claim to have gotten ill as a result of consuming aspartame.  I could continue, but I have other things that need doing right now, and will soon need to be away from the computer.

Ehm, sorry to be a jerk, but do you have any studies that are independent from this site? Say, from an actual medical journal or what not and one that is not connected to the site you've linked to. As you said yourself, this page has a very strong lean in one direction, so I'm fairly dubious of the honesty of their claims and the material that they are reporting (that isn't to say I won't give it a thorough read through, though). I can see that they've referenced several articles and studies so I'll likely start there.

I suggest 100% all natural possum. I ate a possum the other day. It was delishus.

How was it prepared?

Fresh kill or road? Not that there's much of a difference, mind you.

I'd think a fresh kill would be better, not much time for the rot to seep in. With road kill, the Good only knows how long it's lain there, not to mention the gravel, dirt and car parts that could be stuck in the body. I'm picky. :D

Yeah, but road kill is pre-tenderized. One just needs to make sure their whittlin' knife is handy, to whittle up a nice toothpick to remove the foreign objects that get caught in between your teeth. The car parts are easier to remove, 'cause they're bigger...obviously.

 ;D

Well, if it gets hit in this kind of weather, what with the snow and ice, I suppose it would keep well if you were to pick it up a couple of hours after being killed. In the summer, however, I wouldn't touch it even fifteen minutes after it being killed, the heat sours meat badly. Not like I'd touch it any how, but thought I ought to clarify my stance just a wee bit. :D

Yeah, no shit...on all counts. It's cold where I am, too (Midwest). Possum are one of the ugliest animals I've ever seen, I don't want to be around one, dead or alive, let alone eat the damn thing.

I've eaten some unusual things, heh...like alligator, ostrich, buffalo, snails...I'd like to try rattlesnake someday...but I don't think I could choke possum down for a million bucks. Pescado is obviously a true nature lover. ;)

Oh yeah, I think you're right. I'm three hours out of Chicago, myself and grew up in Iowa. One time before I was born a neighbor gave my family a massive raccoon to eat and my mother stewed the damn thing all day. They then went to a church potluck supper and took it with them. From family legend, the dish went over quite well, but none of my family ate a bit of it. :D

OMG!  ;D

I'm never eating at a church potluck again.

I wouldn't ever consider eating a raccoon, either. The damn things are usually rabid! Lots of them around here, too. Pests. And squirrels...I've eaten squirrel, but those sure don't have a whole lot of meat on them for the trouble. I call squirrels "tree rats." I think it's a very fitting description. The squirrels around here will eat all the wires from under the hood of your car. Yep, happened recently to my sister. One day her car wouldn't start. Lifted the hood and there was a huge nest of leaves all over and around the engine, and all of the copper wiring was chewed and big lengths missing. Husband and I joked that they must have been crack squirrels, and sold it to support their habit. Well, it was funny at the time. I tend to check under my hood often now, and I try to hit the little critters with my car given the opportunity. I haven't hit one yet, but I keep trying.

I'm in SW Ohio, btw.

I also grew up in the midwest (central Iowa), and the things I've been offered to eat have haunted me...

My grandpa tried to feed me my pet rabbit once. 'Nuff said.

In a fine dish I call "Possum Ala Pescado". The first thing you do is that you tenderize it. This is accomplished by running it over with a vehicle or clubbing it with a blunt instrument. Then you eat it.

Seriously? Just looking at that poor cow's big brown eyes and i feel like a monster each time i eat meat...


My father wanted me to eat my chicken... :D now that sound strange to say! in fact, i got a chicken for christmas by some strange crazy uncle and well,since i couldnt have other animals i kept it. When i return from school a week after, it was already in the pan. Now, i have a cat. ;D

I read an article the other day about carbohydrates so I thought I'd mention it here. I heard it on the news, but here's a link to the story: http://www.newsguardian.co.uk/nhshealth/Lowcarb-diets-and-memory.4795899.jp

Of course, a study of just 19 people can hardly be deemed the be-all-and-end-all of scientific fact-finding, but maybe someone here will find it interesting.

As for eating wierd things, the wierdest stuff I've eaten are crocodile, impala, warthog (I know it's basically the same as eating pork, but come on, it's Pumba!) frogs legs and snails. My mother in particular loves frog legs. Wierdo. Oh also, on a vegetarian note, my mum once served up seaweed soup. It was the most disgusting thing I've evever encountered - it was basically just a bowl of sea water. Bleh! We've never let her live it down.

My dad did that to my sister. She cried all the way through dinner. :D


You should see cows up close - they're scary looking mofos.  Doesn't make me sorry to eat them at all.


Did you sing Hakuna Matata to it? :P

I've eaten pet rabbits by the dozens. Pet goats, sheep, and chickens too. In my opinion, people who won't eat delicious pets simply haven't been hungry enough yet.

My family is from Virginia. I've eaten that which normal people would not.  :D

Deer, Rabbit, Squirrel, Pheasant, Alligator *tastes like chicken  :D*, Mutton *is not so good*...
Crawdads/crayfish...

Plus, B/F is a bow hunter, so I gets to eat what he gets, too. Oh, yay.  :P

I actually just try something once and then avoid it all costs, but, meh..lol

Late to the honeybee discussion, but here's another potential explanation for colony collapse (http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=1851) that I don't think has been covered yet.

As a major believer in natural ("organic") gardening, farming, & livestock rearing, I'm not surprised to see yet another reason why our modern methods of food-production are perhaps not the best.    :P

Different topic:
Adults insisting their kids eat beloved pets is pretty sad.  But despite preferring to be in the country, I'm a thoroughly city bred animal lover and have never been directly exposed to real hard-core farm life.  I understand the realities kids raised on farms have to come to terms with even as I recognize total wimpiness about it in myself.  Even so, I have a hard time understanding why some people aren't willing to spare the occasional special pet for the sake of a kid who loves it.  Some "life lessons" can be bypassed, can't they?  :-\    

In general, I have no moral objection to the eating of tasty aminals, but I do think the way we treat our food animals is horribly appalling.  Hunting is way more humane!

The problem with Organic food is that most of the time, people don't have a clue.  I work in a grocery store and it's well known that most of "our" organic brand is really the same store brand with a different box put on it.  If you are really into eating organic, make sure the product is certified organic, not just "The label says," and know what it means to be organic.   At this point, the term is too loose. 



I suppose that would depend on the circumstances of the family and what the "pet" truly is.  A rabbit that was raised to be a pet, and for no hardship reason is suddenly turned into dinner?  That's wrong.  The only lesson I could see to be learned by that is, "Adults lie and don't become attached to anything." 

However, if it's a farm animal, bred and raised for the specific reason of meat/fur/etc. and a kid "makes" it a pet?  Then it's a different story.  I would hope, however, that as the child started becoming attached to the creature, that it would be pointed out several times, that the animals true purpose is going to be one the child is not going to be happy with. 

My father grew up on a farm, and was born at the tail end of the Great Depression.  He learned pretty quick that most animals were the difference between starving and not.  The hunting dogs could be made into pets, the milking cows too (if you'd want to make a pet out of a cow) but the pigs and chickens?  Unless they were breeding stock, he knew from day one what their place in the world was.   Of course, life on a farm back then had its own lessons to be learned.  He saw puppies getting trampled by pigs or stuck under farm equipment, and other not so fun things.  And it wasn't that the family disliked their hunting dogs, hunting dogs were damned valuable.  It's just that puppies get everywhere and back then, no one would have dreamed of putting dogs in a pen or on a leash on a farm, unless they were dangerous.

On a similar, but weird note, I told my husband that if we were ever in a plane accident where I died and he lived, that if there was no food source, I fully expected him to eat my body to survive and that if he didn't, I'd haunt his ass forever going, "What are you, stupid?  180lbs of fat and protein right near by and you starved to death?"

His reaction?  He said he'd do it and not be worried, because I'm an organ donor.  He came to grips with the idea that I consider my body meat once my spirit leaves it.   As he puts it, "When I die, I believe my body is still sacred and deserves to be treated with respect.  You, on the other hand, are planning on having a yard sale." 

Whenever I get on a ship or plane, I immediately examine the other passengers and compile a list of who will be eaten first.

When I die, I will almost certainly be eaten. In fact, I will probably be killed and eaten. The only reason it hasn't happened already is that, apparently, I taste revolting. My organs are probably unfit for use in other humans, but I'm sure some bioresearch lab wants to take a look at them. I'm sure something that oozes caustic black ichor is not something anyone wants transplanted into them.

Regardless of if they die or not, right? 


If that were me, I'd encourage my enemies to eat me when I died and hopefully take them with me.  The afterlife will be a boring place if I don't have my enemies to piss on. 

I'm about fifteen minutes outside of Chicago. My grandpa (from northern Minnesota) used to eyeball my pet bunny every time he came down to visit. Thankfully, my mother talked him out of cooking it. He did try to encourage my two sisters and me to eat deer once by exclaiming, "Come on! It's just Bambi!" He was met with three wailing children and the furious slaps of my mother.  :D




I don't care how revolting you taste. You've already mentioned that your blood is caffeinated. I'm waiting with my straw in hand...

<- two hours from Chicago.

I'll be waiting with a straw as well, Pes. *waggles brows* We'll suck you dry. Wait, that's not intended to be dirty. :D

My dad never explicitly said it was a pet or for eating, so when it was slaughtered and time to cook, this "pet" development was new.  They did keep chickens and stuff too - so it wasn't a new thing that stuff in the backyard would die.


Isn't it bizarre the stuff you discuss? :D I'm sure I've said the same thing to my husband. 

I thought the exact same thing after watching a movie. Don't remember the plot much, only that they were in a crashed plane somewhere, stuck in the ice,and they all started to eat the dead passengers ...
In the other hand, i wonder : If the roles were reversed and you end up being rescued, what will you say to  his family? Sorry, we can't burry your son because i ate him? Scary!! :D

I think you'd just have to leave it at "he didn't make it." Or point to the guy next to you and say "he did it!!"  :D

Do you mean that the pet development was new to you or your father?  
The best parts about being married to my husband is that 1: I can discuss this sort of thing with him and 2: He just goes with it.   I was married before (very young, very stupid, I have socks that have lasted longer than that marriage) if I ever tried telling him something like that, he would have either told me I was crazy, used it as an excuse to whack me or my cat, or gone into a long rambling lecture about how eating human flesh would be dangerous for him and somehow twist it so that what I was really trying to do was to make sure that if I died, he would die too.  



Was it perhaps the Urugauyan Air Force Flight 571? (http://"lhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguayan_Air_Force_Flight_571")  


Yeah, that would be pretty awkward.  But, I would assume you could bring back bones.  Although if someone told me that they had to eat one of my family members, I would look at it the same way as I look at myself.  Once you're dead, you're meat, so who cares.  If your body can be used to help someone living, then go for it.  In an extreme circumstance, such as that of the survivors of Flight 571, I would look at eating my already dead body as the same type of thing as organ donation.  I'm not using my body anymore, it might as well be useful to someone else.  

Edit: Borked link

Awww, possums are cute, if a bit odd looking.  But, I'd likely try it once.  Love gator, frog legs are nummy, snails are like chewy mushrooms, and lamb is to die for, even while I'd be torn on killing it or letting it grow up to give me wool to spin one day.

As for racoons being more rabid than more animals, that's a fallacy.  According to vetrinarians, no mammal is more prone to rabies than another, including humans.  In fact, there are some that are immune, but can spread the disease, but otherwise its the same likelihood that your neighbor has it than that little fox that lives in that brush in the corner of your yard, or that bear that some developer built -your- house in the yard of.

I've done a lot of research on this, talking to vets and biologists, because I want a pet fox, preferably rescued from one of the fox ranches [BTW, ranched fox is crueler than trapped - they are raised in conditions comparable to puppy mills, then electrocuted to not harm the pelt - trapped foxes at least get to live like a fox first.]

Rabbit actually tastes pretty damn good. My family had pet rabbits that got out of control and ended up being many, many pet rabbits. And then we had a bad winter and our rabbits eventually went back to being two, except this time they were two girls. We had one we name Bugs Bunny, and we ate him for Easter dinner. Very good meal. Rabbit soup is also good, it does a better job of disguising the meat, which does indeed taste like chicken, by the way. They breed like... well, rabbits, and they don't seem to have any more intelligence than a cow, so I have a hard time finding anything wrong with eating them. Moose and deer, on the other hand, I am opposed to eating.


:o This sounds just like my first marriage! No way! Did you get married at 17? To a wannabe gangsta? Did you scream at each other on your wedding night, too?


That sounds awful. It's reasons like those that I abhor fur. And taxidermy, too, but that's another discussion. Hell, every time someone drags me into a fur shop, or even a freaking gift shop, I see a pelt that looks exactly like one pet wolf or another that I've had. I know that the fur on the rack is already dead and there's nothing I can do for it, but if I buy something, they're going to have to restock it. It really drives me insane. You should get a fox, Soggy. I've always liked the idea of adopting a fox, myself, but foxes are much more solitary than wolves and dogs, and may not appreciate becoming part of a 'pack'. Frankly, that's not my ideal kind of pet.

I don't object to all fur - after all, if its rabbit or the like, the animal will get killed for food too, and that way the fur's not wasted - same as with leather.  I eat meat, so might as well not waste.  But yeah, fur animals like foxs and the like have a rough life.  And the real killer, a few years ago it was coming out that a lot of 'fake fur' was actually cat and dog fur, from strays.

In Georgia, you can't have a fox as a pet, even though they are domesticated, some breeds -as- pets, like Fennecs.  You however can hunt as many as you want, and you can have them commercially, as fur-foxs.  They're considered a pest animal.

Definately my Dad - I wasn't born yet. :D They got soft with me and were nice because I was a baby of old age. I was served no pets.  :P


I'm very glad I didn't marry someone like that - I lucked into it - and he's wonderful.  I have various women I'm leaving him to when I die. :D  

I love discussing stuff with him - we've discussed numerous times what to do after I die, what happens if there's a nuclear war and I'm at work, whether he should in fact, abandon me if zombies attack (he should), what we should do if we wake up and we're the only people left in the world, lots of other crazy shit.  I adore having someone, like you say "just goes with it". :D And of course, many, many debates.  Just yesterday we had a debate about the nature of an atheist sign put up in the ?Chamber of Commerce? in NY a year ago, and whether that was respectful, or evangelical atheism (It was respectful, dammit). The stuff I do here saves Coolington a great deal of grief. :D


Taxidermy creeps me out. I can understand museums doing it, but the average person having their dead dog indecorously scraped out and put on the couch filled with stuffing is just gross.  I don't get wearing fur. I don't want to wear anything that requires hassle, and wool supports farmers, so I'll take that.

You'd never think of cows as anything other than a source of beef or dairy after being stepped on by one of the fuckers. They are ill-tempered beasts, too.

I lived with a lady who had two cows in her pasture - one was her dad's and the other was a longhorn she'd gotten to raise for the meat - best way to make sure its organic and not got hormones in it.

One day she was feeding them when her dad's cow got her with one of her honrs - fortunately, that heifer wasn't a longhorn, but one of the breeds with the tiny curled in horns.  But the bruise was horrid.  Of course, maybe that cow was on to something, since the lady turned out to be something of a psycho and kicked us all out with no warning and called the cops to back her up.

My bunny was a pet. The same thing happened as did to dusdeedawn. My brother thought the boy and girl wanted to play together so let them loose in our garage. And then, there were many. My mom gave grandpa permission to slaughter the offspring for food, since he liked rabbit so much, but he desperately wanted MY pet in particular, who was a massive New Zealand Red. I don't think I would have cared had it not been the one I raised and treated like my baby, haha.

I've eaten rabbit before. Yes, some of them were pets...not my pets, but pets none the less. My mom raised rabbits for a time. Love the taste, not so fond of them when they are alive, at least not as a pet for myself.

Love frog legs, too. Deer is good if prepared properly. Lamb is awesome. Veal is okay (yeah, baby cow).

I wear fur. I do not believe in being cruel to animals, but I don't have a problem using their skins for warmth. I'll wear leather, of course, too. What's a pirate without a little leather? I mean for real?

Cows are mean. Ever been kicked by one? I wouldn't care if they weren't mean, I'd still eat 'em. In my view they are livestock, and a food source.

I couldn't knowingly eat a dog or cat. I'm sure that's a cultural thing, because where I am from those aren't normal things to eat, they are pets and pets only. Other cultures aren't so squeamish about that. My ex-husband is Filipino. His uncle cooked his pet dog for dinner one night. He talks about it as if it was normal. It was for him. I guess he's not scarred from that (scarred from other things perhaps, but not that).

So, bottom line, I won't eat my own pets, I abhor cruelty to any animal, but I will use every available resource for comfort (not necessarily style and fashion), even animal skins.

Not sure I could eat a dead human in a desperate situation. I wouldn't want to, but if it was the only way to survive? I pick survival, but I'd hope that my God would provide another option before it came down to that.  :o

We had so much rabbit on the table when I was a kid that I cannot stand it to this day. Deer is food, same as beef, pork and chicken. I've had snails and enjoyed them, as well as buffalo and a few other things. Any animal used as food should not go to waste, which means I wear leather and fur. I don't, however, see the sense of using carnivores for fur. From what has been said, the meat is awful. Their fur looks better on them than on me. I would not eat any kind of equine, be it horse or zebra or donkey. I've heard it's greasy. Scuze my rapid fire thoughts, someone fed me coffee today... Wheeeeeeeeee!

Besides, you never know where its -been-

I can understand not wanting to use carnivores for fur. I like fox fur though (sorry SoggyFox, having a pet fox would be cool, too), and it looks good on me as well as the fox.  :P

Nope, I won't eat equine, either. I grew up around horses and I associate them with being nearly human (my horse was damn smart). Couldn't do it. My mother has eaten horse unknowingly. She wasn't too happy about it after finding out, but it didn't kill her. She said she would never do it knowingly. I hate it when people ambush others with surprise "foods." "Guess what you just ate? It was Fluffy!! Wasn't fluffy delish?" No, that sucks. I wanna know it's Fluffy and I'll let you know if I want to chow down on Fluffy, thx.

I needs me some coffee. Sounds good, making a pot now. Maybe it'll wake me up today.


True, that!  ;D LOL

Except you don't need it to live. The fox does.

I think wearing fur because it's supposedly pretty and stylish is pretty despicable, frankly.

Someone had stated earlier that the fur looked better on the fox. I was commenting to that, that I thought it looked good on me, too. I also stated earlier that I wore fur not for fashions sake, but to keep warm. I don't even have a fox fur coat, but I'd wear one. Maybe I would need it to live, and not freeze to death in this god forsaken tundra in the winter. Who's to say?

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

Making value judgments about whether one is despicable because one chooses to wear fur is interesting.

Well, I was 19, and there were no "gangstas" then.  Even if there had been, "Dick" wouldn't have been one.  "Dick" thought he was better than everyone else in the whole wide world.  He was one of those delightful people who needs to feel as if he's above anyone else and the only way he felt above anyone else was to be stepping on someone.


I'm not saying you're wrong, because I'm sure you've done a lot of research, but I always wonder when folks start talking about the cruel conditions of animals raised for fur.  I raised rabbits when I was a kid (for pet and show purposes only) and the coat was always the first thing to be affected by anything "bad" in the living conditions. If the farmer's market had cut rate food they sold us and didn't tell us it was cut rate, I could tell by the end of the bag, because the coat would lose some of its luster.  If any of the rabbits were sick, even if they were hopping about, acting like nothing was wrong, the first indication would be that the coat would start looking poor.

I've noticed the same thing on my cats as well.  If anything is wrong with them, or if I'm not feeding them a nutritional, balanced, diet, I can tell by the fur.  If situations are going on that stress the household, the fur always suffers.  No, I'm not saying my cats go bald if our toast is cold, but if Husband and I are having issues with work or our health and the stress level gets high, the cats coat begins to feel less soft, less luxurious. 

I also knew someone who raised mink for fur and funny, Peta never shows pictures of his place when they talk about evil fur people.  His mink are kept in a heated barn.  Each mink has X number of feet of space.  Each mink gets a special diet designed for maximum health and that diet is altered to fit individual needs, if needed.  The creatures are even caged in a special way so that males aren't too close, so on and so forth. There are toys and other distractions to deal with boredom.  And yes, there is something to be said for, "No matter how nice it is, it's still not freedom" but they live in better conditions than many people live in, and they're also several generations of "bred for fur" so I don't know how they would do in the wild. 

This guy is not all loveydovey over his mink.  They are a business.  He doesn't lavish this care because he's such a humanitarian, he did it because he wanted the most money for the skins.  Skins are carefully graded, the higher the better.  He was very honest about it, if he tried to cut corners on care or space for his mink, the quality of the skins would go down and he'd end up making less on each skin. 

It always makes me wonder though, how this stuff with "Animals nailed to cage floors," or "Animals thrown, dozens to a cage, forced to live on a scrap of food once a month," ever could fly in the fur trade.  Any animals produced under horrible conditions is going to have a horrible coat and that's what the money is all about, the coat.  Even if you try to skimp on the cleaning, the coat will be the first thing affected.  Mange and parasites just live for dirty conditions.

Animals used for medical experiments I can see being more likely to be horribly abused. Most of the time the very experiment is horribly abusive, and research scientists aren't planning on selling the animals for fur.  But the fur industry always get yelled at about cruelty. "Traps are cruel" so people started to raise animals, then the activists started screaming that everyone who raised these animals was cruel.

You can't fake it with fur.  Fur is the yardstick for judging an animals health and no one wants a coat made from a skinny, undernourished animal skin.  It would look and feel horrible.

This is not to say I promote the practice of wearing fur.  I really have no opinion on the issue, except that as someone who is allergic to many types of dander, I enjoy that fur has lost its popularity.  Also, we can make such wonderful synthetics now, I don't really see the need for real fur. But I wear leather, I eat meat, if I said fur was murder, then I'd be a hypocrite.


I have more than a few women offering to take my husband off my hands if I should die.   :D  And, yeah, being married to "Dick" wasn't fun, but I still owe him a debt of gratitude.  Growing up, he and current husband were best of friends.  Current husband moved away in high school, but came to visit when I was married to "Dick."   Current husband and I hit it off like gangbusters, became the best of friends, and eventually, got together in that whole "Relationship" thing after "Dick" and I decided our marriage was better off disolved.  I don't live in the same state as Dick does, so I haven't seen him in probably 20 years, but if I do, I'll probably shake his hand and thank him for introducing me to current husband. 

Current husband did send him a thank you card after our wedding.  Inside he put our wedding announcement and a note that said, "Thanks for being such a prick!" 


While we've discussed many of the same things, we rarely debate because we agree on so many things.  Except for how often the snow should be shoveled.   I believe that you should go out several times when it's snowing and clean up what you can, so you don't have huge, back breaking amounts of snow to clean up.  He believes you should let it finish falling, then shovel enough to get the car out, let the sun work on it for a couple of days, then maybe shovel up some.  And this might sound like something we would have disagreements over, not debates, but nope, we debate it, each of us arguing passionately for our side. 

I grew up with animals:  Rabbits, guinea pigs, chooks, mice, turtles, you name it.  Got three pets now.  The eldest is my boozy budgie DJ, also got a hand reared albino cockatiel called Phoenix, and a 8 month old maltese/bichon frise called Snowy (because my husband said it had eyes like piss holes in the snow.)  Always got one lingering around while I'm at the computer.  At the moment, its Phoenix, whose currently got the moves and grooves going on.  Phe loves to get funky :) .

 Hand raised a baby wattlebird that had fallen out of a nest last year.  It had gotten a little brain damage and was pretty much on deaths door when we found it, but within a fortnight it was thriving.  Quite a character, that one, and very cute.  Got a photo of it somewhere, after I had to bathe it (had sticky bird food all over it).  Sadly, when it got older and it was moved to a bigger cage, one of the neighbours cat tried to pull it through the bars one morning.  When we found it, it was wedged in the bars, which were bent.  Its wing was stripped of feathers, raw and broken - its bone showing.  And it was still alive, just very scared.  When we got it out of the cage, it calmed down and sat there looking at us.  We had to have it destroyed, as there was nothing to vet could do.  (Vet consultations are free for native animals).  We were both really upset about it for a while.  I was actually surprised at how strongly I reacted to it.

I've never eaten a pet.  Don't think I could.  Neither could my husband, he's a big softy when it comes to animals. I don't think I could not have pets, either.

When I was about 6 or so my grandma used to raise chickens in her yard. I used to love feeding them and on whole, chickens beeing fairly silly animals ,they used  to put up with me picking them up and playing with them. Then one day my Grandma got given this huge mo-fo of a rooster. I went out to feed the chickens and the crazy bastard of a rooster went for the food tin in my hands. It scratched me up pretty bad, took a huge peck out of my hair (still have a scar in the middle of my hairline) and started going after my eyes. Thankfully, my dad grabbed the bastard by the neck before it could do real damage and needless to say we had rooster soup for lunch the next day.

Although I grew up in the city, I now live in the countryside, and people make sure their children know the difference between pets and homebred stock animals. My father-in-law breeds show and fly pigeons, but he still eats the occassional reject. (Pescadoian logic- If you do not inherrit the desired breed traits, you get eaten). Personally, I hate pigeons and doves and consider them rats with wings. My point here ? Pets can mean different things to different people. My F.I.L.'s prize pigeons get theor lofts cleared twice a day and are hand groomed, their defective offspring get eaten  :P
 

Yeah I had chooks that would get a bit of attitude.  If they attacked me, I'd kick them right back.  They eventually get the message that you are on top of the pecking order, not them, and leave you alone.  More often than not, they actually keep their distance.

For me the issue with fur is whether or not it's needed. I can't think of many places in Aus where you could justify wearing fur. Even in the snow and in Tassie, I just don't think it gets cold enough that synthetics and wool can't keep you warm. However there are many places in the world where it gets seriously cold, and I don't see an issue with fur there. I really don't think it should be a fashion or status icon though. It's not like we do anything commercially with the rest of the foxes, minks or other animals.

I've eaten venison that was caught by a bow hunter, and it was really nice, but I don't think I could eat it on a regular basis. Don't eat veal at all - the south park episode saw to that. Never tried kangaroo or emu either, but I wouldn't be adverse to trying it once.

I've had mice, rats, guinea pigs, hamsters, rabbits, cats, dogs, a snake - I've also had assorted wolf spiders that were on good terms with us, who kept bugs down while we were without cats.

Also have had geese, chickens and goats, who were half pets and half working animals.  I've also tried to save a baby squirrel that was saved by a neighborhood child from said kid's dog, but while it came to and out of shock for a short time, the poor thing dies nestled on my chest - but I think it knew someone cared.  I've got a sketch of the little thing somewhere.  Also helped raise a possum that was one of two infants that an ex-friend found in her silverware drawer.

That is a husband full of win! :D There's nothing better than a funny husband - I heart funny men - and of course they rarely take themselves so seriously.


Poor Coolington - he lamented yesterday that other people can make all the stupid statements they want about crime and everyone agrees with them. :D We usually get stuck into the nuances of a subject, so we might both agree that evangelical atheism is bad, but I am less harsh about where I draw the line than he is. We rarely have arguments of the real kind though - and they're usually over when one or both of us apologises for being a dick an hour or so later.   :D

I'm uncertain how fur became a fashion or status icon to begin with. To me, wearing fur is about cost and convenience: How the hell am I even supposed to *GET* these synthetic whatzits? Animals, on the other hand, are convenient and cost nothing, so it's far more convenient to simply kill it, eat it, and wear its fur. If I'm going to actually pay someone MONEY to make something, I'm not gonna buy some crap thing that is just going to fall apatrt, and have no means of easily replacing it. If it's synthetic, it's going to be damn near indestructible and intended to function as COMBAT ARMOR. Otherwise, forget it. I'll just wear a dead bear, or a deer, or something. They are also quite tasty. OM NOM NOM NOM.

*cringes* I'm opposed and sickened at hunting wild animals for sport or fashion. If you raise or hunt an animal with the intention of eating it, sure, that's perfectly fine. But if you're hunting for sport or just for the fur? Hell no. In most places in this day and age, like has been said in a previous post by Skadi, you don't need fur to keep warm. There are plenty of other options available. My city is supposedly the coldest capital city in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg#Climate), and yet I can't justify the need of real fur. Further north in the territories people live by hunting animals such as seal and use every part of that animal, that's real use of their resources. :/

When I was a kid, not sure how old, a friend and I were walking through some bushes to get to a park. We came across a severed deer's head.  That was not a fun experience.

Also, it's horrible that you can often come across decapitated moose on Ontario's highways. Moose missing their heads because some asshole hunters want a trophy on their walls. How 'bout they let give up their heads to hang on the wall? Grrr...

I've got a few things that are faux fur.  They're actually quite warm, and don't absorb moisture as readily as most fabrics will.  Even got a faux fur back pack - which I have in fact named.  Its called Minky.  I am known for my weird bags.  Aside from Minky I have a white bag with what looks like a mass of thick woolen dreadlocks, and an expensive bag in the shape of a pink fish.  Barely a strip of leather in sight, funky, very unique and functional.

I'm not opposed to hunting things for sport or fashion. I don't, however, care for the idea of hunting things JUST for that reason. I prefer to be multipurpose: Pick an animal, hunt it down, kill it, eat it, and wear it.

This is my general behavior, yes. I try to make use of most of the animal. I like animals: They taste great!

Just the severed HEAD? That's not too surprising. Most people don't eat heads, so it makes sense that they would dump it and just leave it for the scavengers.

That seems like a waste of perfectly good moose. I suspect the moose was decapitated after being hit by a car, and someone decided to pocket the easy head. A hunter wouldn't have bothered to drag the moose all the way to a highway after shooting it. Also, moosesteaks. Mmmm. Tasty.

Have you seen what happens to a car that hits a moose?  :D The moose is more likely to be intact (though probably dead depending on the speed the car was going), but the car, not so much. The driver would be lucky to be alive themselves. The hunter scenario sounds more likely as sick as it is.  :(

Synthetics roam the land and are easily caught and trapped. 

Seriously, if someone hunts and kills an animal for food, then uses the hide to make clothing?  More power to them. But instead we see rich little bimbos strutting around in some mink coat.  In that case, I'm all for synthetics, because they need a fur coat like a fox needs a bathing suit. 

As for hunting in general?  When I was younger, I hated the very idea.  Then I realized that we rose to the top of the food chain and now we have to deal with it.  Human beings are predators and predators aren't fond of other predators, unless we can domesticate them.  The results is that we've hunted many predators  almost to extinction before we realized the impact that would have on the environment.  This means that it's up to us to keep the grazers in check.  If that means that someone has to go out and kill Bambi and Thumper, then so be it.  I thank hunters for doing the job I don't have the stomach for. 


Oh, I completely agree.  Even after 17 years, he can still say things that will have me laughing so hard my sides hurt.   


Crime is very close to a black and white issue.  Very few people say, "If only we had some more crime around here!"  How criminals are treated is a different issue, but people who make passionate statements about how crime should be stopped are for the most part, trying to stack the deck in their own favor.  It would be like trying to debate serious child abuse, most people aren't going to say, "Oh, I don't know, child abuse isn't that bad..."

And it's funny, when you start picking people apart, a lot of people who argue the child abuse fight will bend a little.  I'll say something like, "Well, I dunno, I was spanked as a kid and today that is considered abuse." And nine times out of ten, they will agree that spanking isn't necessarily child abuse.  So, then I say that "well, you know, the mother that smacks her kid's hand out of the way hard before it can touch the hot stove, that could be considered child abuse, couldn't it?"  and they'll usually say that no, in that case, that really isn't abuse.  Pretty soon you've got them down to "I'm talking about if the child is starved or hit continuously," in which case, very few people are going to disagree with them. 

It works the same way with crime too.  Find someone who starts yelling about how criminals need harsher punishment, and you can often start taking apart their argument.  "Well, what about someone who stole food to feed his kids?  Does he deserve the same punishment as someone who steals for the hell of it?" And so on and so forth. 

No, but they make statements about crime - it seems that young people are more criminal these days, everything is going to hell in a handbasket type stuff.  And plenty of people want to minimise their own crimes - everyone else is a criminal, but not them - so they vary how they categorise crime.


Oh I agree - I even catch flack for doing research with "You're just trying to help criminals get off!" to which I promptly answer "No - I'm trying to understand why so we can stop more doing it in future" which shuts most of the morons down immediately.  :D  Many people are in favour of more punitive sentences, more punitive treatment, or wildly inaccurate statistics or just plain old anecdata.  There's also the various media driven moral panics (jargon translation: ZOMG!!! You could be living next to 600 pedophiles). 

You probably are. Fortunately, you're probably also not a child. This is why you teach your kids to kill, and that they shouldn't talk to strangers.

Yes - I agree with the fact that they're in a lot of places. Laws like Meagan's Law 'protect' few children - it's estimated only 1 in 6 pedophiles is ever reported and arrested.  So you'll be sending your kid to A's house, but not B's, cause he's a dirty kiddie fiddler.  But so is A - just he's not been arrested yet.  Like Moody says CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!

It's actually more effective to teach your kids that they don't have to respect all authority figures.  It helps if a kid can say no to someone who tells them what to do.  Most important for kids is critical thinking. :)

Although I've seen that backfire too.  When I was a kid, if an adult said, "Don't do that," I mostly wouldn't do it.  Now kids flip you the bird, because adults are just their buddies and all such.   In most cases, I don't care, except when they start calling me by my first name and acting like I have to take orders from them. But the other day, I told a kid to stop playing on the ice over the nearby pond.  His reaction? "Why do I have to listen to you." 

A minute or so later, when he fell through the ice, into the water, I called out, "That's why." 

Even though I was raised as a kid to respect adults, to call adults "Mr or Mrs. so-and-so," I also knew right from wrong.  When the guy up the street invited all us young girls to swim in his backyard pool and said it was okay for us to take our swimsuits off, alarm bells went off in mine and several other girl's heads.  We went home, told our parents, and the next thing we knew, Mr. Weirdo wouldn't even look in our direction if we were walking down the street.  And until he moved, any time any family with a young girl who moved in was alerted.  Parents alerted parents, we kids would alert the girl herself.  "Stay away from him, he's weird." 

I don't think teaching children that adults and authority figures are their equals and only to be listened to if they feel like it isn't the answer either. 

I've found that it's kinda hard to teach children to both think for themselves and listen to older, presumably wiser people (their parents). My poor kid has a large respect for authority figures, and I don't know what I can do to make him understand that just because they're adults doesn't mean they're not idiots. On the other hand, these days he's pushing his limits (he's at that age) and is trying to get away with not doing anything we say. But the cutest thing happened when he was nearly nine. We moved back out to the woods, where I grew up, and one afternoon I decided to let him walk home from school. So he's walking, and my stepsister and her SO drive by on their way to their house. They stopped and asked him if he wanted a ride, but him, being really bad with faces/names (just like his father) had no clue who they were. Seriously. She told me that he stayed way back from their truck and yelled "I'm not allowed to talk to strangers!" They tried to tell him they weren't, but of course he wasn't falling for it. I was so proud. Also a little embarrassed, but mostly proud. Can't ask for better than that!

It is a fine line, but I think it's possible.  I've taught my kids right from an early age to critique things like ads, and feelings of others (ie. why would such and such do that, do you think).  They realise that there are lines you don't cross, and that they aren't equal to an adult.  But some parents drum it into their kids that they must always do what adults tell them - and that doesn't work well. I never answer a "Why?" question with "Because I said so" or "Because I'm the mother" - that's asking for trouble and doesn't help with their understanding, or developing their reasoning skills. 

As it happened, they were approached by a dude in our backyard, who asked them if they wanted to come to his house for lollies.  The elder one told him to fuck off (in true calalily style  :D ) and the younger backed away, and they came immediately to tell us. That's not to say that they swear at us, or at any adults - they don't - but nor do they automatically kowtow.


:D He did well. As for making him understand about authority figures, if he's at that stage, he'll soon come to the epiphany that adults aren't perfect.  But other than that, just letting him know you are fallible should go a great deal towards getting him to understand that people don't change in quality just because they're adults.