PMBD

Ok so I don't know how many of you are registered at The Sims Cave forum, but

http://www.simscave.com/ferris/index.php?topic=4670.0

This topic was by Pavs over there. He was generally complaining about them getting rid of the sub system and doing a charge by the set system. (Which I believe he said it was 3.5 for each set!) And Birgit sent him an email saying...


Also after he posted this, she sent him another email saying that if as soon as she catches him sharing, she's sharing his information.

I think this is low, even for her.

They ought to be sent to jail for giving out other peoples' information. Period. >:( Idiots.

He should report her to Paypal.  That has got to be some kind of violation. 

The logic there bothers me. I mean, sure, it could be an effective threat, depending on the person, but it would be an invitation to get one's ass sued. And I don't mean sued as in the paysite owner's version (<NO NAME GIVEN>) but sued as in, hand me the keys, bitch, and bend over, cause I'm takin' everything you got.

I went up on the Paypal site in the Swedish area, since that is where they are located.  Paypal is pretty clear about the use of personal information that is obtained from a buyer.

They spell it out really clearly; on what you can and cannot do with the personal information, that you do get from a buyer.  If Sasi does disclose any information at all to anyone that is viewed as a third party, she could possibly be facing some trouble.  I'm unsure though; of the extent of problems that she could face, since each country handles things differently from another.

Apparently they looked it up over at The Sims Cave Forum, and it's still illegal to do for his part of the world. He is currently talking to paypal, and sent them the e-mails and such just in case.

I don't get it. I don't understand why she would go batshit when all he said was her prices are outrageous. Which is true, 3.5 for one set? Come on.

She went batshit; because of Pavs mentioning that he was going to release all of the sets that he had downloaded from the site, onto SimsCave.  All of their creations were going to be in the Sharing Area and that seemed to drive Sasi over the edge, it would appear.  That's when it appears that he received the letter from her regarding releasing the sets.

Do one think illegally and it's not a big step to do other things that are even worse. This chick just may end up paying for the SimsCave server for the rest of her days.  :-X
Furthermore, this could be proof this is being done regulalry and on a grande scale.

By making things harder and unsafe for any sharing buyers, they are also making things more difficult and threatening for non-sharing buyers.

Keep going and they might just destroy themselves by chasing off the vast bulk of their buyers.

As my mother's late lawyer always used to say, "Sue the bastards."

How unsurprising.  Well I hope they get into real trouble.

Yes completely. Sharing subscribers information ultimately is a stupid thing to do...it looks evil in the eyes of all subscribers, whether they be sharers or not. So by doing this, she is driving non-sharers away and as they still like her creations it, possibly, pushes them to downloading from sharing facts.

Damage your public reputation with the fact that you share paypal information, and people will subscribe to you less and less, and perhaps even stop completely.

Well sasi can go shit.  I have uploaded all the sets into one file.  I will post one link at sims cave and another to a rep from pmbd for the booty, just in case sasi gets the link deleted at sims cave.  I couldnt share earlier as I didnt want to get banned, but before my sub ran out I grabbed everything from there.  At the end of the day its a game nothing more nothing less.  If this helps peeps to some sets they are desperate for then im buzzing I could help them out.

Enjoy them everyone, Thanks Sasi (Bitch Troll From Hell)

Hugs

Pavs

Edit:

Ash you have email xx

:D Good on you Pavs.  :-*

Excellent Pavs. I am glad you are not just taking this and are actively defying her and finding out what you can do to protect yourself/strike back. 

I hate to see anyone bullied. 

Yay Pavs! I think you should tell her when you upload them just to say "Screw You!" Cause she can't sue you, she doesn't have a copyright. And if she does share your information there's a good chance she will go to jail.

I hope all her stuff gets downloaded alot (from Sims Cave & PMBD) and people who are great at recoloring begin recoloring and offering them all over the place at every single Sims forums.  :D I'd love to see that.  ;D

I'd like to see someone recolor them, too, as most of them look like crap.

(imho, of course)  ;D

What does she make, anyway?  I honestly don't follow what the pay folks make so much as just know it mostly sucks.

Reyn, she primarly does object and room sets. Is well known for doing copyrighted material...Ikea was one of the recent companies she copied from. So she copies copyrighted material, then claims a copyright on it, shares subscribers information, has extremely overpriced rubbish, and is really a greedy bitch. The others at Habitat43 are the same. They are all now (correct me if am wrong) FAs at TSR, and have/had their own individual paysites.

Oh, so she could be reported to these other companies for making money off of their copyrights too?

So paysite people really do think they can get away with anything. God, I'd just like to see her face when people stop subscribing. I can imagine the shock, the dismay, the 'Hey, why is that happening? What did I do!?!'.

They are crap. Both in appearance and function. They bleed through walls and other furniture, and the beds and seating suck your sim halfway in, like the scene from A Nightmare on Elm Street.

The newest post at Sims Cave made by Cheeky and Pavs is an e-mail from Pay Pal more or less telling them that there's no way she could share his info because she doesn't even have it.
But didn't Rose share info from paypal?
So now I'm confuzzled. :D

I believe some did..there's a thead about it here. Am too lazy to search for it *hangs head in shame*


Rose did and does. I am confused - how can Habitat not have his info if they donated to them? They will know his email address and the such..so can share that information.


Except the Nightmare On Elm Street scene is fantasticly bad which somehow makes it great, whereas their stuff is just plain crap.  :P

This bitch makes Freddy sound like Elmo from Sesame Street.

Yes, I do believe you are correct. I'm surprised Thomas lets them operate a pay site outside of TSR. I did notice one of the paysets from Habitat was also uploaded as a pay set to TSR at a later date. Greedy.

Birgit has been doing this for awhile, since back in the day when S2C was pro-pay and there was a secret forum for paysite owners to conspire and share names, addresses and credit card information. Rose was part of that group and quite happy to share my details with the group, which also included Thomas from TSR. Some things just never change, huh?

Here's a copy and paste of the e-mail Pavs got back from Pay Pal. He posted it at Sims Cave.




Basically I think all they got was his e-mail addy. Which still isn't right if they share it, but PayPal says that nothing else is available to them for them to pass on.

Thank God, otherwise you wouldn't know who the hell would end up ringing your doorbell with some of the lunatics in this community.
However didn't BlueSoup use Paypal as well?

I sell stuff on ebay and the only information I have about buyers who pay by paypal is their email address, nothing more.

Yeah, but an obsessive and devious site owner can get your home address if they want to. Paypal doesn't need to be involved.

  Both Habitat and TSR are no strangers to sharing paypal info. In fact they have ongoing threads in the TSR forum sharing real names, usernames and Emails gained from paypal info, These threads are viewable to all staff and all FA's, I'll leave you to do the math on how many people have access to this very long thread, then add to that the amount of people Atwa told and continues to tell.

  Here are some screens of just a small portion of people named by Tom, Birgit and Sasi, I have blurred out surnames and emails, but left enough info so that someone can inform them of their privacy breech. I will send the unblurred screens to Hecubus, and ask her if she would provide these screens to any of the people named in the event they want to take it up with paypal or EA games. 

 

  Images are on image shack, so download while you can!


http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9949/sasi1cenwg8.jpg

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3733/tompt1cenrz0.jpg

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3787/tompt2cenhc0.jpg

That is both disgusting and distrubing. 

If that is truly the case, I think there is some serious butthurt in store for TSR.

Oh my fucking Christ. Got them btw, ready to go back up in case of TSR deletion.  Thanks for giving them to Hecubus.

And hey thanks Aikea/Gelydh/whatever ex-FA for telling us??? Didn't think it would be important?

 ;D So, is Hec getting the complaint to Paypal together?  ;D

Yes, I will be doing that now.

I'm apalled and shocked. I mean, we always suspected the info sharing, but now we have hard evidence that it's being done out in the open. They're pretty ballsy.

Coconut, that thread is from 2007.
Time to show us everything, don't you think? Or are you still wanting the moneys?

Not to mention stupid as hell, but we already knew that. This goes beyond stupid, though, this is criminal.

Wow, just...wow. Nouk has a point. Why has it taken so long for this to come out? There are a few former FA's here. You all coulda said something.

On the one hand, thank you Coconut for showing it..

On the other..posting that now, so you can get some glory from it? Sorry but that thread you showed screenshots from is clearly not new and is very very active - why did you not alert us to it before? You could have privately told Hecubus or any of the staff here.

I am personally losing a lot of trust and respect for you. You should have shown that a long time ago..any ex FA or ex staff member could have. None of you did.

Yep. Being paid for years and then leaving, knowing this shit is going on, is not as admirable as just 'finally leaving TSR (to go free)'.
I'd really like to know why ex staff and FA that have posted here never mentioned this, or even really acknowledged any of Coconuts former claims.

How can it be stealing when those files were fucking paid for? Or do they mean stealing as in they don't get any money from the people downloading them from the Booty? Boo fucking hoo, cry me a river of Jello-O, asswipes. We count what you're doing as stealing, and from the people that make the damn game!

Uh huh.

This really should have been told to a member of staff a long time ago. By not doing so Coconut, and others who have left TSR and been ever so welcomed into the free community, you've made a fool of yourself and lost credibility badly. I would also like to know why this has never been show or even spoken of before...There must be an extremely good reason for not doing so, and personally can not really think of one. So please do enlighten us  :-\ I'll be nice and wait for a reason..but frankly, I am bloody pissed off.

We'll just have to see if Coconut is actually feeling up to telling/showing the truth. Feel free to post more Coconut, I think it's a little too important to use this in your little game.
Or maybe you're only telling part of the truth and trying to make shit for ex staff and FA's.

Well it has always been clear that Coconut is telling us information for her own motives and with own grudges..and personal bias in information means it will often be incorrect or partial. I did say this previously...am a grumpy, untrusting person so think like that heh.

We knew this was going on, back with Rose and TSR and LyricLee. I don't see how this is startling new information, but it IS proof to show paypal that can be used to get their status revoked.

Yes, I'll take back what I said about Aikea and Gelydh untill I see evidence of them actually having acces.
I don't think that coconut would compromize his/her position by posting about a thread that is only accessible to admins, though.

I have something to share with them if they like...everybody turn your heads AWAY! *Drops jeans & boxers and points hairy ass in direction of birgit & sasi*

You shave your balls and not your butt? *inspects further*

Followed Nouk's post from Sims Cave.

I am incapable of putting into words how disgusted I am with these f*****s but I felt the need to "say" something.  There are some really awesome people in those lists and for their privacy and whatever else to be violated.... Argh they just make me sick.  I hope they all burn in hell.  Wish I could help more than that :(


LOL at Frank

Coconut, my shopping list:

- A proof of ex staff and FA's having access, like them posting in the thread.
- All usernames who got their real names shared.
- All paysites involved.

kthxbye

Not startled..we knew this was going on, and warned people about paysites sharing information..its just actually seeing it. It really makes me angry. I know a lot of names on that list. Annoys me on a personal level  :-\

And complaints will be organised to go paypal. They have got away with this for too long. Serious butthurt time!

First off, yes, the thread is for real.  I remember seeing it 'live' back in the day.

Why didn't I mention it?  Honestly, I completely forgot about it until today.  It hadn't been updated since summer of 2007, so it completely slipped my mind.  The other posts aren't until after we'd left, and obviously therefore no longer had access to the thread.

Thank you for giving a reason Aikea. Seems valid enough. You did not have to respond so cheers for doing so..as Gelydh just said at GoS, neither of you were not involved in it.

Its hard not to be angry. I know a lot of the names in those screenshots...Meh.

To add to what Aikea said, we had nothing to do with that. I didn't think ANY FAs had anything to do with it, at least not when we were there. It's Thomas's post, he and the staff(?) would have done it in any case.

And for clarification, no, neither of us support sharing personal information like that. Realize they've no doubt done the same with us by now.

ETA: Furthermore, why on earth would we have witheld that information? We left TSR, we're so fucking against TSR at this point that we ended up getting banned ourselves. If we'd thought of that, we'd have shared, but it simply did NOT cross our minds.

It's unfortunate. vYou had other things on your mind.
There are many many FA's and staff members that saw this happening, and none of them took any responsibility to try and make it stop.
There's dozens of others and they didn't do anything at all. Even if you're against fake piracy (because it's not actual piracy), this is a step too far to share confidential information with who-ever has acces. Why the hell did they find that acceptable? We all know how Atwa turned out, so wtf is up with sharing people's full names?

To clarify further, that thread wasn't a, "Here's the Personal Information of All the People We Banned" thread. It was, "Look at Who Got banned Today". That's why we saw it once or twice and that's it. I'm sorry that neither of us can hop into a motherfucking TARDIS, go back in time to October of 07 or whenever, and valiantly demand the list be taken down (not that they'd listen, everyone should know that), but since I can't, that's all I can say.

Aikea phrased it better in her response on GoS.

I don't think anyone blames you after hearing your side of it.  After all, people have known that its been going on for quite some time now.  Yet I don't know if anyone here ever thought to ask the ex-FA's about either. 

Absolutely sick. Someone should sue the fuck out of those guys  >:(

Shiiiiiit.
I paid for a subscription once - with my boyfriend's paypal.
He is the most security concious person I know, so if my details are on there, we're in trouble.
I've been banned from there, for spamming the place about the booty, so surely they know who I am on there, I'm just really hoping his details, as well as many others are safe.

Truly TSR has gone to far. I hope that info doesn't get used by some douchebag to harm anyone.

No, Beth, if your details get out, you aren't the one in trouble, they are. That info is confidential and private and if they abrogate the privacy, their ass can well be grass and we are but the mowers.

Paden can I quote this in my sig?

What I really can't believe is that these idiots can't see the difference between something they see as an insult/stealing from them (booty) and actual ILLEGAL acts such as sharing private info. Scary, glad I picked up on this, and awesome free stuff, before doing something stupid like trusting these jackasses.

Honestly - are we dealing with adults, or are these site owners actually 12 year old kids trying to suplement thier weekly allowance? ???

Well for Thoma$$, I don't know his age but he did suck on Atwats tits for nourishment.And all he got was dry powder. :-X

Evaporated milk?  :D

I'm not surprised they have a thread with all that info.
I am surprised I'm not on it.  :D

If you can obtain proof that your personal information has been compromised, I'd contact an attorney. This is a serious, frightening breach of privacy rights.

Yikes. I never knew all those things about me.  :D
One post and it's a doozy. And tinypic. Hide much?  ;)

Did we not do just that? Are we supposed to bathe ourselves in holy water and atone for our sins by bashing the EA EULA against our heads? I'm just wondering what on earth you mean by "come to terms" with things we've said.

I thought the FAs that left just didn't tell us this because we already knew that. I wasn't aware this was NEW news, we've already known TSR was doing that. Old news is old. Plus, if they were really pushing an agenda to damage TSR, they would certainly have included this...if it wasn't old news. And basically unquotable, since by screenshotting and quoting it, you'd be revealing all those names to the public.

Yes you do! Then you have to turn around four times, say the alphabet backwards and jump a hopscotch with your eyes closed, your nose plugged with french fries and your feet tied together.
Only then, will we know you truly regret it.

 :D

Looks more like this is just causing dissention in the ranks, as it were, so that we'll do like Atwat is doing at TSR

Or you could be baptized in the river of Pescado's Piss. :D

Whatever Aikea or Gelydh may have said in the past, it's obvious they no longer feel that way, so I hardly think it's fair to accuse them of not 'coming to terms' with things. By the same token, the free community was known to say unkind things about them as well, but they don't seem to hold it against us.


Eww. :P

Your point being...?

I take full responsibility for anything I may have said in the past; there's no point in denying that I fervantly hated everything that PMBD stood for when I was an FA.  TSR has a very strong 'us vs. them' mentality, on top of the piles of rumors that have been spread about me in the past on this site and others.  Of course I said things like I did in those posts.  Furthermore, it just shows that I was thinking about leaving for quite some time.

I still happen to think my work is worth paying for, however, I won't ever be charging for it again.

*turns around four times, says the alphabet backwards and jumps a hopscotch with eyes closed, nose plugged with french fries and feet tied together*

Good now?   ;D

Guys, I had this information quite a WHILE ago, but there was nothing actionable on it. Until now.

If you want to yell at someone, yell at me. Coconut has always been forthright and has told as much as she can here. I have done the best I know to do with the information given. It's not about her getting glory or me withholding anything. We act as we need to/can.

Now can everyone take a big girl pill?

The river still awaits... ;)

For the record, we don't.  ;D

(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/funny-pictures-kitten-gives-his-friend-a-cheeseburger.jpg)

Er... that's ok.  I think we'll both stay Unclean in that case.   ;)

Good with me Gelydh.  :D
LMAO!

Do you still smell fries? You'll smell them alllll day, believe me. My 2 year old shoved on up my nose the other day. I smelled it until I showered that night.  ;D

Oh, and did they have ketchup on them?  :D

I'm sorry. Ry is silly today. :P

Filthy Priest, go ahead and use that quote for a sig, if you want to.

Seriously, any one that sheds the filth of TSR and joins the free community, is in my humble opinion already good to go.
P.S. Am always silly, I'm the resident troll for petes sake :P
thanks Paden

fallen apple is probably Atwat or some other TSR lover. You can go away, now. Your attempt at shit stirring PHAILED.

I was thinking that too Keirra.

God, don't you love the self-righteous and spotless ones that wear blood-spattered robes while preaching to the masses about doing nothing mean? And people can change, but obviously, TSR groupies/zombies are always going to be holier than thou fools that should be locked up for their own safety.

Maybe it's just me, or the people over at GoS, but I thought we had all already come to terms with what was said in the past. I seem to recall when Aikea and Gelydh went free, we all hashed it out and admitted to saying mean, uninformed things about one another and agreed to let it rest. I know that didn't really happen here at PMBD, but I for one am willing to agree that we've all said and done things that seem awful in hindsight. Fallen Apple is just bringing up old trash to get us to turn on one of our own, and I won't do it.

I wrote an email to paypal telling them I was concerned that TSR is sharing the private information of their customers, and asking what recourse we might have if our information is given. It is a legitimate concern, and I hope paypal takes it seriously, given that they promise privacy and safety.

Wow.... all I can say is I have forgiven Aikea and Gelydh. They have already admitted they have said means things in the past, and as I see it, it's over with now.... what we need to focus on, is there information being shared? And how to stop it.

Yes, we know a good portion or paysites are sharing information so they can ban IP's, but we need to find out how many, and who has been affected. This is serious legal business, that if a group of people took legal action out, could very well shut down a good portion of paysites. Not to mention people's personal information is at stake here.

I don't care if paypal doesn't hand out your credit card information. Nothing should be handed out. Not even an e-mail....

And I can understand Hec's position. If coconut gave out to much information at once she would be discovered. I mean it's not like she's playing the field here is it? Just relax everyone and let's focus on the bigger problem at hand here.

And let's get the popcorn popping! I left the negative side of that era behind when they went free, but for someone like Fallen Apple (ATWAT, maybe??) to come here and try to stir shit when her hands and robes aren't clean is by far something so hypocritical that it makes the scribes and pharisees look like Raggedy Ann and Andy...

I'm honestly really happy to have Aikea and Gelydh here, and look forward to their posts. I said some pretty pissy things too before they joined. Still feel bad about it.  

I like Aikea and Gelydh. I didnt know who they were untill they went free, and they seem nice and have good CC.

 :)

And I like Coconut, she seems nice too. Maybe the thought of letting the populace know just didnt occur to her/him untill now?


Thomas and the majority of the up-and-ups over there are asshats, this is news?
What theyre doing is blatantly illegal, and they will get sued.

I say we spread the news! Post the pics on MTS2, TSR, and any other site we can access!

Yanno we all say shit sometimes that later on we change our minds about. Our lives are contextualised in time, place, knowledge, experience and so on. Those elements are dynamic and we change with them. I've said nasty things about people that I later completely or partially changed my opinion about. But at the time I really meant it based on where I was, what I knew and what I believed in. You can't hold that stuff against people, that's just stupid.

So I think if Nasty_Apple wants to stir shit it should stick a spoon up it's ass and have a party.

There's no question that sharing the personal information is offensive and morally corrupt. I might have a question as to it's illegality when it's confined to the staff of the company in question. It's wrong no questions asked, but I'm wondering if it's illegal or against the Paypal TOS if it hasn't left the office. I would think that the threat to disperse the information to other companies would be the more criminal act. To my mind that would be the larger threat individuals privacy. I'm not an expert on the legal intricacies and I imagine it would depend on the company's country of origin and the actual Paypal terms of service.

However I also don't think taking said private information and wallpapering the internet with it is necessarily the best choice either.


 

kenmtl, you never fail to crack me up. That was perhaps the funniest thing I have heard in a long time!

 

But it's obviously leaked out to us, so I'd say it isn't confined to the staff. I would think that if a company releases your info intentionally or accidentally, they should be held responsible. I appreciate coconut's post, but she's proof that the info isn't secure within their staff.

I'm discusted to the point where you wouldn't want to hear my views on this.

WOW! I mean WOW! As a former SA, we did not have access to the FA forum, but they had access to ours.  This was not done at the SA forum at all, at least when I was there. 

I would never consider that you would be okay with that sort of thing - too principled - you'd have squealed on them immediately.  Probably why it's FA forums only - they have money riding on catching filesharers. No catchy, no pay.  :P

So..they have private delicate information about the true identities of some pirates.
And the reason they want to "catch" them and "ban" them is so they don't lose hypothetical money. They obviously are not familiar with the story of the Hydra. Nor do they understand the speed, strength and numbers of the pirate crew. Okay.
Anything, and I mean ANYTHING they do with your Identity is FRAUD and if you are one of the pirates mentioned, you are in the RIGHT to share The Sims CC by EA's EULA. So if you take these bastards to court and sue.
You. Will. Win. Especially if it has anything to do with defamation, like if their exposure caused you money/time/stress. The list is endless at what the court of law provided for Identity Theft.
What on God's greenish Earth do they have on you to make a case? What leg legally do they have to stand on when it comes to Identity theft? Because laws have been made to protect us, online. They are just making a few bucks by stealing third party Industrial Designs, patented colours (like for example the colour magenta), processing it through FREE open source software, and using it on a game engine MADE BY ANOTHER COMPANY (EA) that lets us share everything in their file format, because they know that the game will be UNPLAYABLE without C/C. That's 3 big fucking holes in their sob-story.

I am pretty mad. But then again, the only reason I am mad is because *somehow* they equate stealing their poorly made meshes (Oh Brigit, the only kind of artist you are, is a scam artist) to being in the same LEAGUE as PERSONAL INFORMATION? Man... poor Pavs. I am so glad he bitch slapped her.  :-*

Unfortunately, much of what we have learned about the inner workings of TSR like the kudos fraud, atwa's machinations, and now the info sharing crap will not be widely known.  There has to be a way to get this information out there.  I remember Blackdwarf saying something to the effect that she/he had no idea about the bully tactics TSR used.  And I believe that BD has been in and around the community for a while.  Heck, I knew about the Rose thing, but I didn't know about this.  And I was at TSR in 2007.

And cala-you are correct, I would have squealed like a stuck pig if I had known.  In fact, one thing on the SA forums that happened during my time was the discussion of posting a couple of things at MTS2 and then putting the TSR link in the sig or profile to lure people from MTS2 to TSR.  I posted against that idea vehemently and surprisingly once I had posted my reasons many SA's agreed with me and decided not to do it.

Well its been posted here, NoukieSims2, GardenOfShadows, and the LJ communities SimSpam and SimWank. Quite a lot of people read those..so it should spread quite a bit.

And regarding the screenshot Appleperson showed - its old and Aikea (and Gelydh, as you seemed to have grouped them together..they are different people you know) has since left TSR and therefore changed some of her feelings. Its old and people have moved on. People have said bad stuff about her in the past, and she's done the same back. Its forgiven.

The bad apple seems to have fallen from TSR as far as I'm concerned.. and is missing the point that people can have bad feelings, (which they've gotten well over) and that's one thing, but actually doing something illegal or impuning people's privacy is ANOTHER thing altogether. ::)

I'm late to the party as always. :D  I've long since forgiven Aikea and Gelydh for anything they might have said when they were FA's, since they've now seen the light.  As for TSR, I don't think I can ever forgive the admins for what they've done. >:(  (That doesn't only mean this latest piece of illegal idiocy, either).

  We could post a secret about it; using the screen shots and whatnot. A lot of people NOT involved with either of the sites mentioned before go there, it might be a good way to get the message out.  :-\

I missed the apple troll post the first time round and just went back to read it. It's a pretty lame attempt at misdirection, TSR should seriously talk to their trolls about quality control, as their troll standards seems to have dropped to the level of their FA standards.

What we have there is an old reply by Aikea, the post she is replying to was censored, maybe because the author of that blurry post was the apple troll herself. As for Aikea's remarks, it's nearly a year old, and Yea, she had some not very nice things to say about pirates, but who cares, wind time back a little further to when I was at the brainwashing cult of TSR, and I had some not very nice things to say about pirates too. Old news, and those opinions have changed. However even though the posts Tomass and teutonics made are also 'old' I doubt TSR's opinions or illegal information sharing have changed since then. As for the rest of my opinions, I'm gonna bite my tongue on this one.

That's a good idea about the secret.
A lot of people who don't read the places the info is posted will read the newest secrets. I mean, we're all reading the silly things aren't we?
So, someone do it!  :D
And who cares what was said in the past. It should have been forgiven the minute they went free. As I said to that apple, hide much? She/He can't even be themselves. Have to hide behind tinypic and new accounts. Chicken.

  So that we are clear, all this information and more WAS sent to staff here as soon as I became aware of it, the reason it was not made 'public' to the rest of the world is so that staff had the chance to use this information to the best of their abilities without Tom and Co knowing this particular secret was out and giving them the chance to cover their own ass. I am in no doubt that it was dealt with as best they could be at the time, The reason I have now made part of it public is because we feel that enough time has elapsed since I gave the tipoff, to enable appropriate action to be taken, and also it was part of a topic you were discussing.

  On the subject of which FA's took part, or encouraged this, it was practically all of them, I would have screenshot the entire thread for you.  However I must say that aikea and gelydh had no part in this, to blame them is wrong, but something TSR are happy to see you doing.

  I posted information on Atwa as it happened, because quite frankly the woman and her ramblings are just too insignificant and delusional to take seriously enough to be stealthy about. We are talking about a woman who goatse 'd the member pages to gain attention, hardly in the same league as paypal sharing. Although it must be noted that she does continue to play a big part in the downfall of TSR in her continuing search for attention and global domination.

  You have to understand that some of the more important things cannot be said on the boards as it happens, but need to be dealt with in private first. Also in some cases, public airings need to be delayed to protect the source(s), again this does not mean info has not been passed, just not publically passed.

Coconut your inbox is full..would rather talk to you in PMs, if you are ok with that  ;)

You know... I've been waffling on a lot of stuff, partialy out of apathy, partialy out of a feeling that at least TSR never bullied me. 

The waffling is over.  I don't care if TSR had kissed my pink hinder, this is wrong.  Yes, anti-paysite folks can be mean, but that's like compairing a child's taunting to someone beating the crap out of you.  I'm glad I was only called "stupid," it could have been much, much, worse. 

The only suggestion I could make about getting information out there would be suggesting a "neutral" website.  Not associated with this place at all.  Not a filesharing place, just a website with information.  Maybe a forum where both sides could report incidents that have happened to them, or at least someone they could email and then have the emails posted.  Purpose?  To show that whoever is running the site is willing to post both side of the argument, post the down and dirty stuff from both sides, post emails from anyone who feels they've been victimized by the oposite side and let people decide for themselves.


Err, before I make a complete fool of myself, does such a site exist?  And if so, where do I find it? 

Honestly, I don't see how that would help.  It would be the paysite debate all over again.  People believe what they want to  believe--there's no need to have that "conversation" again. I don't know how long you've been around, but the history of this kind of thing has been that people scream at each other, or lay out logical arguments, or present facts--it really doesn't matter--and then someone shuts it down.  There's no reason to think anything else would come of it.

wha? tell us moar plees

Okay, I see your point.  However, has anyone tried a site like this that didn't have a forum?  I would imagine if you allowed people to interact with each other, it will just disolve into fighting.   I was thinking of a place where the  only person(s) who can put up new information are the owner(s) of the site, who hopefully would be neutral in their opinions or willing to be neutral when it came to the site.   If you want to submit something, you email it to them, and they deterimine if it goes up or not.  

Again, if this type of site has been tried, forgive my ignorance.  I've been around for awhile, but I never got too involved one way or another.  And the only time I ever saw "Pay vs. free" sites it was very clear what side they belonged to.  

Actually, there was a forum specifically for both sides to present their thoughts/comments/arguments.

It was Sim Tribal Council, on EZBoard.  It was for Sims 1, of course, but it was very effective in allowing people to make their opinions and accusations public.  There were some arguments that went on and on with no real resolution, but it was a safe place to present your side. Got pretty comical on occasion, too.

Ha. I was a moderator at Sim Tribal.  :P
It was a great idea, someone should do a new one for sims 2.

Heck, I have a forum that's sitting unused. If enough people want it, I'll rework it to make a Sims Tribal-type forum.

lulz - I'll help ya, Ry.   ;)

To basically say "F-you whore!" Pavs uploaded all the the habitat43's files to sims cave and clearly labeled it as well. It was also posted in like 3 or 4 other places for people to see, to make sure Birgit doesn't miss it.

Ry if you get that forum started, I would love to help you in any way.

That's awesome, Missbonbon.
Anyone who'd like to help, send me a PM.
I'm going to go ahead and try to get one started up.
It'll be for both sides, a place NOT TO YELL and call names, but actually discuss problems, etc... Like grown-ups. Which means I have to be quiet....lmao! Just kidding.
Here's the link to the forum, it's Yuku...which is what EZBoard turned into. There's nothing there but a testing smileys post right now, but, meh...lol
http://rysarchitecture.yuku.com/

I used to be a member of your board Ry, but I lost the link. Now if I can just remember my Yuku password...

LOL
Yeah, sad board, wasn't it? No one ever stopped by, even me.  :D
As a matter of fact, I would pop in and see people there and wonder, what are they doing??? LOL
But yes, I'm going to get this started.
 Hopefully someone decides to use it; if not I'll just delete everything again.  :-X

A little update regarding that thread on The SimsCave.  Sasi decided to make a direct apperance in the thread, as herself.  I guess she just couldn't stand just reading it but, really felt a need to have some say in it.  Since we all know that the paysite owners, do tend to register to these sites to watch the pirates and filesharers anyways it was no suprise when she showed up.  Thankfully, she didn't think before she jumped though.


I especially loved MeltedCheesePuffs reply though to Sasi coming on the site as herself.

and

I guess Sasi really is as dumb as she looks.  ROFL

Sounds like she writes and hits save before she proofs, too. Yeah, I know, she's ESL, but man! I've not seen/heard the English language butchered like that since Foster Brooks died, but then again, he had a reason. He was supposedly drunk during his act. What's her excuse? Crack? Calling Ward 12, calling Ward 12, get a bed ready in the room that Atwat and Jan share, we have a roomie coming in for them...

Idiot. Go get her spelunkers (ref. to cave) :D

Is it just me, but if Sasi shares pav's e-mail with the other pay-sites, isn't that technically violating pay pal's no-share policy?

Yeah, it does.  One of the Cave Dwellers looked into it and I believe it is covered under the anti-spamming rules. 

*Lumbers in big chello case and music stand. Opens case, takes out worlds smallest violin and music sheet paper, and proceeds to play "My heart beats purple piss for you" for sasi.*

THX Missbonbon   ;D  I'm still put out with her for the stunt she pulled at junipersun over the banana revival stuff.

We also had screenshots from when there was info-sharing at S2C, provided to us by Piratebooty. This is not new, there was hard evidence back in 2006.

What happened at Juniperson? Sorry I can be a drama whore sometimes

That Cosycole had Banana Republic paysite and mini-cult thing going and JuniperSun owner was one of her devotees/followers.

Is the Juniper Sun thing you're talking about the one where after everyone's effort to dig up pics and textures and all that, she decided to make some stuff pay, without asking permission from Cole and/or Heidi and what not.  Something like that right?

I think this issue is not just a paypal issue its a security issue that all would be donators should know about.  I am fairly new to the sims 2 community.  I was lucky in the fact that I discovered pmbd before any major paysite.  Even I had heard rumours that name sharing was going on but I have seen posts where accusations have been going back and forward.  If you are a total newbie who do you believe.  Well you certainly believe the ones with cold hard facts.  This is what you guys have.  How many people would use paypal for these paysites if they knew for certain their info was going to be shared.  I don't think the evidence should be posted but the fact that you guys have this proof should be posted on every forum in the sims 2 community.  The support forum is an excellent idea.  As for Pavs I really hope that he receives no more emails on the matter as he has shown that he will be sharing any he receives but having seen the stupidity of birgit maybe not.  If things do get nasty for him I hope readers of this thread will stand his corner.  I was so dithering on making a donation to this site but I am so saddened and disgusted by this thread my donation is on its way this is the only thing I can do to help. Ok so it is a tiny speck of support compared to what the real pirates are doing.  As for payartists that go free, it is a hard decision to make and stand by because not only do they have to put up with abuse for being pay when they change their minds the abuse they get from the pay community must be even worse. Respect to them.

Justso... that was so sweet  ;) But don't forget, that by spreading the word, refusing to pay for content and standing up for the sims community (like you just did!) makes you a pretty darn awesome pirate in my book :P

You know guys, I re-read what Sasi wrote, like 5 times, and I STILL don't understand what the hell she is saying. Isn't she totally contradicting herself?
*shrugs* I know it doesn't really matter, but it irks me that I can't see an organised thought process in there.

I think that what happened with JS was the fact that Birgit made all that stuff and then took it down and went pay with it, right?
The thread is probably still there.

Dee, I think the thought process is pretty linear and goes something like this:  MINEMINEMINEGIMMEMONIESMINEMINEALLMINEGIMME GIMME MINE MINE MONIES MINE..

So there's little room left for reflection upon the criminal shit she's perpetrated like charity scams, copyright infringement, or privacy violations.

Yep the thread is still there, 2nd or 3rd page of Muse Cafe.  Steffor and a few others made other meshes as well but they're all FSF as far as I know.

You're not the only one deelink.  She seems to be contradicting herself over and over in trying to make things better for her.  I'm sure she knows she's made a fool of herself and a total mess of things.  I usually do not say much as far as paysites are concerned because I cannot usually put into coherent sentences what I would want to say.  But I do hope Sasilia and the rest of them get what they deserve, which in my opinion should hurt as much as a jackfruit up their asses will.

LOL at JFederated :D

Isn't what Sasi doing known as either extortion or blackmail? The "if you don't do what I say, I'm going to do this against you or reveal something about you that you don't want known?" Even if it's not one of the two, it's unethical as hell, but then again, this bitch is part of the pay site mentality. Ethics have nothing to do with them due to them leeching off of the unauthorized sale of a product that they don't even own. Twat.

It was a *community* effort at JuniperSun to try and recreate the themes of BRR for TS2, then in the middle of it all Brigit decided to announce she was going to make a bed part of a payset on her site.  I'm not clear if other people provided the textures to her or if she ripped them from some of Cole's TS1 items and tweaked them for 3d texturing, but I don't think that really mattered.  What mattered most, IMO, is it was a JP community project that was entirely in the spirit of open free sharing.  The secondary issue (and perhaps less whiney and so expressed more often), paysite opinions aside, is that she did not get clear permission from Cole to SELL the derivative work - only recreate.  Her responses are wretched, as she feigns innocence, ignorance, and appologies, then gets ballsy and basically says "I'll do what I want, I read Cole's reply as permission, even though I didn't mention money.  Gimme."  If I remember correctly she threw in a bit of the "PS, if this backfires, I'll pull the language barrier card and keep charging anyway" as well.

This post was brought to you by the "I needed to bitch about something" company, producers of such hits as "Everyone's already said everything about paypal data sharing" and "TSR would be a tl;dr".

Ren

LOL @ Ren.
Perfectly explained, hun, you rock.

Edit cuz Ren spoke, not Red. LOL

Wasn't there something like not getting Heidi's permission,too?

You might all be interested to know that LyricLee has just posted a response to this issue at Reflex forum here:

http://www.reflexsimsforum.com/showthread.php?t=17792&page=2 (http://www.reflexsimsforum.com/showthread.php?t=17792&page=2)

Quote and printscreened for those who do not have an account there -


Printscreen - http://i37.tinypic.com/m9xhtl.jpg

Typical dumb LyricLee response really. TSR has all right to share information againt Paypal's agreement because TSR is mighty and nasty people stole their pixels  ::)

It's no big surprise that Lyric would play "devil's advocate" about this subject. She's probably running to TSR begging for the info so she can keep the bad people from sharing files from her shitty paysite.

I would have thought she was already in on it. She was around/took part in it when it was in a hidden section at S2C, didn't she? She was a moderator/admin there at the time I believe. May well be involved in the info sharing at TSR as well..

I think you're right, Jojoba. Lyric always seems to be involved in the dirty dealings that go on in the sims community.

What Lyric wrote is pretty much bullshit.
Back in 2004/2005 when my account at TSR was created there was no:"OMFG don't DARE to share our filez!" agreement.
In fact you could sign up with just entering an email adress and a password in the upper navigation bar - that's exactly what I did to sign up there.
After this free vs. pay war took place they added the agreement to the site, before that there was none.

They can't legally enforce that agreement, anyhow, cause they don't hold the copyright on the package file, but unlike us they do tend to forget that they didn't fucking invent the goddamn thing! Stupid twats...

Wasn't when I signed up either, at least I don't remember one.

Same here, of course that was back in the stone age when TSR was free site.

LOL, this is great. Now filesharers are on equal footing with paedophiles. Logic FTW!

The agreement at TSR, didn't come in till the end of 2005, beginning of 2006 I think.  When I first signed up there, I know that there was no "Do NOT share our things" agreement.  At no time; in fact, have I ever been asked to sign one at TSR.

As for Lyric Lee putting sharers and paedophiles together in that same sentence, well I guess we now know at what level she views us. 

Never really cared to register at TSR, but back in 2004 I considered getting an account there. Well I found modthesims2 and I changed my mind pretty quickly. As for LyricLee well all I got to say is this
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/kxmerune/middle_finger_flame.jpg)

In other words: "As long as we can protect our moneys, we don't give a shit what laws we break. It's for a good cause, our moneys."

Pretty much sums it up Master Nouk. :P

Think of the chilluns Surely!


So let me get this straight *clears throat* People share TSR's pay items as selling items are illegal...and TSR share's peoples paypal info because its stated in their agreement not to share them so they say its 'illegal'... but paypal says its illegal to share personal info...and EA's EULA says its illegal to make items pay in the first place..and yet TSR still thinks they have the legal right to do so? I admit it, I laughed. Its like a battle of legal vs 'legal' vs legal. Ultimately, EA and Paypal have real legality in this, sorry TSR.


They broke their own disclaimer as well, as I would assume that passing information onto other paysites is indeed transferring info to other parties other then TSR.  ::)

One can use other variations of Lyric's "pretzel logic" and truly toss her arguments right in the trash.

As I understand it, Paypal does NOT condone sharing names and e-mails during transactions. That is still the case, correct? Has anyone shown otherwise?

Well, then, the issue is not with the alleged filesharers. The issue is with Paypal. If she doesn't like Paypal's terms, she can use another form of processing payments.

As far as I know, Paypal does not state that it's OK to share names and e-mails in an open forum with just 200 or 50 or even 20 people. I don't recall reading anything in the TOS stating, "You are permitted to share this info on a private Internet forum." You're not supposed to be sharing this. Period.

It doesn't matter what EA states or doesn't state, or what PMBD, TSR, ABC123, MICKEYMOUSE etc. etc. states. These are Paypal's terms. I could be wrong, but Paypal probably couldn't care any less about The Sims or custom content. Nor should it. It has other problems that have little to do with pixel dollies and more to do with scam artists and phishers.

Also, in the case of passing bad checks, I'd seen those signs. I worked in retail myself for a long time. When we were given this info, we were given limited, general info ... usually, so and so's name. Perhaps a town if the surname is a common one. We were NEVER given specific-mail addresses or street addresses or phone numbers. Just "watch out if you get checks from Jane Doe of Jamaica, Queens". And that might not have been Jane Doe's home address. We weren't told this. It could relate to her business address, her organization's address or even a phony address.

And by the way, this all happened extremely rarely. The person would have had to be passing a whole LOT of bad checks over a period of time, not just one check. I never saw long lists of phony check-passers at my register! I had one, perhaps two names. Most of the stores where I worked never did this at all. I guess LyricLee never worked in retail, or has long forgotten about it.

Which brings me to another problem. Let's say the "perpetrator" is 12 years old. Really. She doesn't have a credit card or Paypal. She begs her Mom to get her a subscription. Mom does not know what our little pirate is up to, and gets her a subscription. The little pirate shares it.

TSR brings out its judge's robes and deems the little pirate guilty. However, when TSR shares the info, it doesn't share the little pirate's name and e-mail address. It shares Mom's. And Mom had no idea what was going on.

Nice.

 

Lyric has posted again at Reflex Forum......

http://www.reflexsimsforum.com/showthread.php?p=277685&posted=1#post277685


How she & other paysites consider buying subscriptions & CC goodies stealing boggles my mind. You paid for said subscription, you paid for said CC then its yours to do with how you want. It now belongs to you.

Stealing would mean breaking into a store (Paysite) & leaving with all the goodies.

BINGO! This is one mom who would be absolutely livid! And not with my child either! Blasted fools.

People like them make me REALLY dislike the whole 'Buying over the intarwebs' deal.

I hadnt even thought of the Twelve-and-mommys-account scenario.

X_0

I can so totally see it happening. . .

Of course not, she expects everyone else to do that, and follow her.  It's funny when the tables turn.

What I dont get is why they all keep equating breaking thier TOU's (dont share our stuff) with an illegal activity (sharing personal paypal info).  They keep making stupid statements like 'if you do illegal things then so can we'.  Why do they keep insisting that sharing files (even if it is against thier wishes or TOU's and we actually did agree to it) is illegal?  I would like for them to show me the LAW that they are saying is being broken.  Some people need to understand that the internet has some laws to protect both the sites and the users but violating Habitats TOU is not against any of these LAWS.  However, sharing Paypal info is not only a violation of the agreement that the site has entered into with Paypal but it does violate actual law.  


I also was one who never agreed to anything like that when I signed up at TSR.


Also, anyone else wish that Lyric would really "give up on this whole friggin community" and just go away already.  I am in the mood for Lyric Soup for dinner tonight.

Dude, check out Sasilia's TSR page:

http://www.thesimsresource.com/artists/Sasilia/ (http://www.thesimsresource.com/artists/Sasilia/)

Did she always have this much for stinkin' free, or do my eyes deceive me?  ::)

She didn't use to have that many free downloads.  Here's another question, where is her thread in the FA Discussion board?  All of the FA's usually have a thread in there and I know that she had one also but, when I went and looked around, I couldn't seem to find hers'.

I didn't agree to anything of the sort at TSR, either, since I signed up there before The Sims 2 came out.

And if this is just a game, stop requiring that money change hands?  Not rocket science.

Good god. Rhondalette just confronted her out in the open.


http://www.reflexsimsforum.com/showthread.php?t=17792&page=5 (http://www.reflexsimsforum.com/showthread.php?t=17792&page=5)

Uggh. I feel like I'm witnessing a train-wreck I can't turn away from.

Silver, can I quote your post in the thread?

I want to see lyric's response.

Yeah, I just seen that.  I can't help but wonder what LL's answer to this question is going to be?  It is like a train wreck about to occur but, I'm starting to understand why LL reacted to the thread the way she did.  If she did share personal information previously, then she is just as guilty as Sasi, IMO.

Apparently she has no response since she has just logged off. Couldn't take the abuse anymore, I guess.

She was on; definitely long enough to see the question posted, by Rhondalatte.  I guess she doesn't feel like she really needs to answer that question.  Tinkle jumped into the forum and gave everyone a warning that the personal attacks were to stop or she was locking down the debate.  This debate is probably going to be locked down in about a day IMO.

If Thoma$$ and T$R are sharing information (email and real name) with a third party (other paysite owners or forum members not owners of the business contracted with by the customer & Paypal) they are in violation of Paypal regulations and are therefore using the Paypal service in a fraudulent manner.

They should be reported and have their Paypal abilities removed.

Let T$R try to make money without using Paypal.

Well i just sent a e-mail out to Marc J. Zwillinger who is the chair of the Information Security and Anti-Piracy practice group at Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal and is a former cybercrime prosecutor with DOJ. He provides advice and counsel on preventing, minimizing and recovering losses from cybercrime to some of the nation's leading financial institutions and consumer companies. He also helped with California's new mandatory disclosure law.

I can't believe the amount of denial going on in this forum.  The justifications they have for doing what they do beats logic. All I can say is  saying denial definitely is a river in Egypt I now understand why they all blow thomarse they need to use him as a floatation device cos they are drowning in it.


Edit.  on the inside I now think lyriclee has earned a place in the paysites ugliest creation thread.

Could you please copy and paste? Many people don't have a registration to that forum. 

I always miss the drama! Sad thing is my work as any site (bar this one it seems) that has a connection to gaming :'( and so can't read anything at Reflex.

I see no problem. I'd like to see her response herself. How would she like it if this happened to her? If her boyfriend/girlfriend/niece, nephew, etc. did this? When I think of it, an adult can to this to another adult as well. Perhaps a guy (hey ... I used a girl in the last example!) wanting to purchase the subscription can't get a Paypal account or a credit card, so he uses his girlfriend's account. Once again, the poor girl has no idea her boyfriend decides to give the download information to a bunch of his buddies. One of them shares it. The girl has her info posted for a bunch of people to see. Great.

One can argue that this is the exception, not the rule, but that's rationalization. And I'm not sure if Mom or the girlfriend would be placated by the excuses. Also, does TSR or any other site KNOW how many minors visit it, or and what percentage of subscribers use a parent's, guardian's, or other adult's credit card or Paypal? 10%? 20% More?

However, I'm not sure you'll get much of a chance or an answer if the admin is planning to lock the forum. Too bad.

As to why paysite owners are doing this, it seems pretty clear. Despite their protests, I think we ARE making an impact. Even if you lose ... once again ... 10% of your business to pirates, that's still a good chunk of money. And now, various world economies are having problems, and Sims 3 is looming on the horizon. This new game might mean fewer free artists to steal borrow from for a while; at least, not until the free artists can figure out equivalents to CEP and make meshes. There will be fewer Sims 2 players to even play the game, and still fewer who want to shell out money. Aye. Times might be tough ahead for our paysite owners. So they have to skirt Paypal's TOS and resort to these scare tactics.

It makes them look pretty pitiful, actually.

Umm.. why didn't she read the links!?! ???

If you're going to post a "firestarter" post on a board, what do you expect? (Scratches head, and now can't get that song out of my mind!)

sry no screenie but got this by Alais before it was deleted


Look, I don't kiss LyricLee's ***...never will, ain't ever gonna happen. I have seen what she has done in this community almost from the start. I've seen the communities she's been welcomed into and then kicked out, once found what she does. I am always very quiet in Sims2 forums, but I now have a few things to say.

Here: I pay for a blouse at WalMart. The blouse does not come with a TOS. I can give away the blouse; I can **** on it; I can draw neon pink smilies on it. It is MINE. Walmart must now replace said blouse within its inventory.

I PAID for that subscription to TSR. I PAID for it. I never **** stole anything. I downloaded items with my PAID subscription. I gave them to my niece. And now my private info is now made public! And yet you defend. I paid, I never stole.

Trust me, wheels are in motion, and they include your little pay site.

TSR never had to replace any stock, they never had to do anything. The pixels are right there...and yet *I* steal?

And next time, think twice before you lump me in with a pedophile. Perhaps you should simply go over there, sit down, and shut up.

Seriously.

Let me tell you something, LyricLee. You are, at most, an incompetent texturer.

It is only your sort of people, in your egotistical little community, who think you are such fantastic artists, you must be revered for incompetence. You have this childish, pompous attitude. PAY us, pay us. We are gods. Do not question, whatever you do! Just pay us, and be our minions because we deserve! We deserve!. If you aren't good little boys and girls, well ... we'll just release your personal info from PayPal! Never mind that this is a criminal offense! Look away ... nothing will happen to our tiny domain, we shall strive on against all those nasty piraty people.

Let's look at reality: you are a tiny fleck in this insipid Sims2 online society.

I was a CAD artist for 20+ years. I actually earned my dues. I have the full and most recent 3D Max. Do you? I rather doubt it. Every little tool you have, I have better, trust me on that, child. I mesh, I share, I recolor, I share. I never charge.

Everything I download for Sims2, I check it. 95% is junk, from footprints to animations to shadows. Let's say this, chitlin: you are most certainly NOT an "artist", and neither are your coharts.

Reality? I own a gallery, the kind where you come in and are offered canapes and wine while perusing the art. Yeah. I do.

And you know what? My art doesn't come with a TOS. You buy it, you own it. You can draw bright fuschia smilies on it and put it on your lawn and plant daisies on it. It is yours when you pay the price. Now, I cannot make an exact replica of what was bought... but that is what real art means. TSR has its little pixels, never having to be replenished.

Your arrogant attitude has helped to make this community a laughing stock among other real artists.

Get off your high horse. It's only a tiny little horse anyways. The wheels are in motion, babe. LyricLee, your little community has finally met the real world. Be prepared. I am p****d.

Nikki: Because shit stirrers like her don't give a damn about facts? They just like to jump right into things without knowing whats going on, as she stated herself. Also - if she had left the community (which I had thought she'd done) why come back now? Bored is she?

Oooo, lovely stuff Karu! Lyric lumped someone in with paedophiles? How am I not bloody surprised ::) And whoever Alais is - I love you  :-* I couldn't agree more with what she said!

I don't think LL got the chance to read alais' post, but here is her latest response.

Alais's response was most awesome.

LryicLee, as usual, is a troubled idiot spouting pro-paysite garbage without actually thinking about what she's saying first. She's very much like a mouth disconnected from its brain. And her sad and pathetic attempt to  lump fileshares and pedos in together is full of phail. Especially when you consider all those smutty downloads TSR makes available to children. In fact, since it was Lyric who famously attempted to lure more subscribers  onto that site by baiting them (including, one presumes, children) she is the real threat since they would then have been exposed to all that inappropriate content.

Wow my poor compy broke itself so I guess I missed all the drama.

Lyric is a dumbass. I'm registered over at Reflex, and everything she's always had to add was pointless, not funny, and completely asinine. I bet she did share information of her "customers" and that's probably why she's getting so defensive over it now. Hell who was it that Rose sent all that private information to way back in the day? Seriously I can't rememberBut I'm sure that doesn't that matter to her, ya know, since pirates are apparently as bad a pedophiles.  ::)

Filesharing != piracy
filesharing custom content that the owner (EA) says you can share, can never be a criminal offense.
sharing personal information = a criminal offence

How hard is it exactly? if ever any reaction from paysite owners to filesharing was over the top and completely insane, this is the one.

Well of course we're as bad in her eyes.

I never liked her, and now I know exactly why, well, yet still more so.

The whole scenario, the Paysites VS Pirates VS EA VS Law thing reminds me of my siblings and I children.

Its like, mommy and daddy Law are out visiting their friends and leave under the assumption that their kids will play nicely and by the rules.

Now the older child Paysites is making up new rules to boss around the younger siblings, claiming 'Mommy and Daddy said I could'.

Pirates are the youngest siblings going 'Nuh-uh! You cant do that! Im telling!'

But mommy and daddy Law are too drunk at their friends house to really answer their cellphones.

Thats a brilliant sum-up Astonished Lemons :D

The culprit replies!

http://www.reflexsimsforum.com/showthread.php?p=278244#post278244

Thomas: Set all your sets free, use the lingual barriere card, be a victim. Play into feelings, because the facts will not get our asses out of this.
Sasi: Wut? You still payin' me right?
Thomas: Yes ofcourse.
Sasi: OK

Yeah - my thoughts exactly - so I replied right back with her post kindly provided by coconut of her sharing someone else's information on TSR forums.  She says she hasn't shared Pavs information (on a secret forum no one can see) so let's show she's done this in the past.  Also uploaded the image to bayimg which doesn't delete, so Thomass can't try that little trick either.

she seems to speak english mucho moar fluently in the screenshot you posted Cala

edit to add word

Oh completely. And its too late to play that - they should never have shared paypal information, there is no way to cover that up.

And about the sets being set free - I would presume that the sets will be reuploaded to TSR, they will become pay, and then disappear off Habitat. Some Habitat sets are already up at TSR, so its already in motion.

edited for clarity

Notice how she tosses the PayPal hot potato straight at Birgit's head. Gotta love that.


Pathetic twat is pathetic.

Maybe I'm blind, but I do believe there is no longer any free stuff at Habitat43.

The kiddies took their marbles and went home.  ;D

Also, if Sasilia said she set all her TSR sets free, either she lied or TSR just hasn't gotten around to it yet, because the newer ones are still pay.

This drama is even better that Atwats.

Not to mention this wasn't the tune she was singing a couple of days ago at Sims Cave with this:


Found here (http://www.simscave.com/ferris/index.php?topic=4670.msg52992#msg52992)

She's just trying to do some damage limitation now more of her customers know.

Lyriclee, what a laugh :D I hope her idiot customers wake up and dump her retarded ass. If only the jackasses that released that private info realize just how easy it is for ID thefts to us it. :-\ If my ID was stolen because of these actions, I would take what legal action I could against those fools.

If you go here (http://habitat43.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=108&func=select&id=15) you will find the free items on their site.  They are still throughout the site but, they do show them on their own now, as well.

As for what Sasi said on the Reflex forum, IMO she's trying to back track on her threats and just say that this was one big misunderstanding.  I say Sasi is full of Bullshit on this and is just worried that she blew her big mouth off too fast.

Your absolutely correct Titan & i couldn't agree with you more. She's trying to cover up her tracks & then the topper throws it all on birgit LOL

I wonder who this witchy is that lyric was responding too? :P

A person named 'witchboy' who was debunking her.

There is a post over at SimsCave; that may answer why Sasi is trying to take back her previous statements, and is trying to make nice with the community now.

http://www.simscave.com/ferris/index.php?topic=4670.15

Maybe she's hoping; that if she plays the misunderstood card and giving away the CC for free, everyone will forgive and forget and hopefully this whole thing will blow over.
From the sounds of it though, it does appear that Pavs and Cheeky Monkey are not going to let this go, thank God.

I received a response from Attorney Andrew Jaffe on the questions i had asked by e-mail. Here is what he basicaly told me by phone.

Do Sims 2 pay sites who create Custom Content for the game own any copyright what so ever over said content?
There is no intellectual copyright for these items. Once the item is created & put into a ea/maxis package format for the game the copyright reverts automatically back to EA.

Why you must add the "This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or its licensor's. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensor's. All Rights Reserved."

So EA is not liable for said sites & or services.

Why EA doesn't stop Paysites?

EA has not stepped in to stop it because it would behoove them to do so seeing as both pay sites & freesites help sell their product. But EA could step in at anytime, say all of this is ours & you must cease & desist.

Is the sharing of personal pay pal info between owners of Sims 2 paysites illegal?

Sharing of e-mail address & screen names is not illegal. As long as their not sharing banking, credit card, real name & address info. That would then make it illegal.

The way I understand it is this (and I read this example, probably on reflex, so sorry if I'm using the enemy's wording here!) that if a store has "Do not accept cheques from Sally Sloopy, Freddy Flashman, etc" on a message board, this is well, basically legal. No info other than a name which could be found in the phone book is given.

If the store across the road gave those same names, with addresses, driver's license numbers, and bank account info, then - bam! illegal.

So while any site can list, in huge glowy letters, the known screen names and email addresses of "pirates" they can't share personal information with anyone, even their mother.

Yes? So if someone wants to play innocent and say "I never shared paypal info" but in fact even was part of a discussion of that info, then they are breaking the law?

Illegal:
Paysite owner1: "Hey, Sally Sloopy, of East West Somewhere Drive etc stole our pay content!"
LL: "k! Let me write that down and keep it!"

shit, that was rambling!

The sharing of email address & screen names is not illegal as per Attorney Andrew Jaffe said. It becomes illegal when they start sharing banking info, credit card info, your real name & real address.

Ok, so what you're say WB, is that what they were doing over at TSR private forum was illegal since real names were being used in there, right?

Whether sharing email addresses and screen names is illegal or not, it is certainly a bullying tactic.  I would think that most people would not want this information shared despite it being legal.  I know I wouldn't want my email just given out.  I get enough crap as it is. 

I believe from what the attorney said it has to to be a combination of real name & one or more of the following.....

banking info, credit card info, real address.


I completely agree with you Tomato. It shouldn't been done whether its legal or not.

Honestly it pisses me off that she just assumes that setting her stuff free and putting the blame on Birgit will make it better....

<RANT>

It's just WRONG to go this fucking apeshit over C/C!!!!
This is beyond ridiculous. Paysites, all you are doing is pandering to your pockets, you have lost your freaking minds, OK? You've LOST THE PLOT.  As far as I am concerned, those screenshots provided did not just say "user@isp.com" is a violating user, this is their IP address and their username is "Tinklebunny". They gave out REAL names, and didn't they also included patner details, whose credit card it is, and so on? Carefully blurred here to protect at least on SOME level the so called pirates involved?
Is this their idea of waging war? Um, as an example, we're sharing Ikea furniture for the Sims 2. Ikea doesn't care. EA doesn't care. Why should the person who brought two and two together in such a HORRENDOUS fashion, get paid? When there are so many other people doing it for free? Because this isn't an enterprise, it's a fucking game. The real enterprises are the sole copyright owners (EA) that you guys don’t work for. No matter how much you wish you did.
See how it doesn't compute? What sort of REAL ingenuity are you paysite owners giving to the community/society at large?
Fucking nothing. I agree with the beautiful Alia post. You guys need to get the hell off your high horses. Stop sharing personal information, Pirates are NOT Criminals.
Can I say it again, so you can understand? Pirates, in the Sims 2 community, ARE NOT CRIMINALS.
Your two faced, stabs in the dark hoping to catch a shoulder blade is PATHETIC, unethical and underhanded. If you want to fight this war, do it with fucking dignity.
What irks me about this drama is its stubborn greed. They got their money and now they want more? Each and every time someone wants to buy their bloated cube meshes? Fuck you Habitat43. Seriously.  Totally pissed off.

</Rant>

what do ya wanna bet that atwa is writing her own ticket over at tsr right now?

That was a great rant deelink  :D

Ah, but what if you are the only person of your name in the world, as am I? Someone shares my real name, and anyone seeing it theoretically could find where I lived using something like Zabasearch (not quite true in my case since for some reason it's not picked up on my current address).

Very true...very true zaz.



Amen Deelink.   

If they want to fight against the pirates, they can quit hiding behind their piss poor excuses.  I'd ask them to have a little integrity but I'm afraid that they have none.

So I was building my first apartment complex right, and of course I am having some problems with it, since I suck, and can't decide on layout, colour scheme, blah. So I pull out a random bathtub out of my collection to give me some inspiration, when lo behold:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/deelink/The%20Sims%202/habitatfail.jpg)

And that's when I realised it was from Habitat43 (how did that get there? seriously,wtf? I really should Clean Install houses more, considering, in the end I only use them for plans and never actually move Sims in)
So I wonder over to the Habita43 website, thinking to myself, it has to be a free item right? Although in the back of my head, I was truly expecting it to be pay. When I get there I see this:

"Because of some changes in our lives - Steffors stressy academic studies and our jobs we decided to give up our subscription-system. There are new sections where you can find our stuff. Please feel free to use our "Cafe habitat"-Forum if you have any question. We wish you very much fun with our stuff!"

I don't wish to join their forum, so is it a killmark or not? :P

Considering how much they love money and how many paysites they have, more than a week would be good.  I predict that when they think everyone has forgotten about the information sharing, they go straight back to pay and plead bandwidth.

Well id say not a kill mark seeing as 8 sets are still set as pay.

1 Bathroom
3 Bedrooms
1 Diningroom
3 Livingrooms

I wouldn't doubt that the sets that are still pay are Birgit's. It seems only Sasila & Steffor's stuff were set free.

I take my hat off to you WB, for having the patience to navigate that site. I thought it was a static commercial when I googled.
And thanks for the clarification.

Goes to prove that Birgit is a greedy bitch.

I'm not sure if you seen this WB but, Sasi wrote this in the Reflexsims Forum in the debate thread, regarding her sets.

It's posted on page 11 of the debate thread, close to the end.  I guess she was telling the truth regarding her sets, at least on Habitat43.  Her downloads on TSR are still pay though, so she's not really going completely free I guess.  I suppose that would have been asking too much of her.  ::)

I wonder if this issue isn't entirely due to MONIES!!! but rather that pay content really IS inferior much of the time?

When I learned about the booty, I admit I downloaded a LOTof the files.

Not because I really wanted them.
Not because I needed them.
Something for free is a good thing, right?

WRONG!
Once I saw them in the game, a lot of it was downright fugly. Bad textures, bleeding, and whatnot. Just all around piss poor. So I had to painstakingly delete almost all of it, one by one, because who can bother to remember filenames of all their downloads?

Yeah, they lose some money through booty, but the greatest thing about this place is how it exposes the lack of quality certain sites want you to THINK they have.

IMHO, none of them are on par with creators like Adele, Bruno, Nouk, (and a vast majority of MTS2, for that matter). I once thought that if you paid for some bench or kitchen set it was the best.

The delusion is gone from my mind. May it never return.

Really, the misers are just afraid that others will see the man behind the curtain, too.

This is so true.  I'm an attorney, and we often find witnesses just by using their names.  There are databases you can use that, just from a name, can ultimately give you address, date of birth, and even social security number, particularly if your name is unusual.  Granted, you're not supposed to use these databases unless you affirm that you're using it for a legitimate purpose, but it's not like they verify that.  Also, it may not be illegal to publish someone's email address in and of itself, but if it's a violation of PayPal's terms of service, they may still be legal action you can pursue.  You might just have to be creative.

I agree - I think that this is what freaks them out the most - and those that seem to squeal so much about the booty just don't want to have someone rummaging around in their files or seeing it before they think of giving money.

I know of sites where if you have a name and a general area where they live you can get an address, phone number and other people in that household. if you subscribe you can get more. All done by using electoral register.

I hope this is the right place to post this...I didn't think a new thread was appropriate.  Apparently, Thoma$$ addressed the issue.  This is from the Cave.  I am putting the link as well as a screenshot for those who are not members.

http://www.simscave.com/ferris/index.php?topic=4670.135

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f267/sharedpicturesbyme/newsod9.jpg)

Apparently, he thinks its o.k. if you give the information out to only some people. What an ass!

Edited to add:  This is a screenshot from within the thread.  It didn't copy the actual post. 

Classic cop out attempt number two. If sending the FAs over to apologise does not do it, pretend that the evil pirates are spreading lies. Poor ploy Thomas.

TSR cares nothing for the privacy of its members, and the trust of its own customers. That thread is sharing personal information which is illegal, as per the PayPal agreement, and is against basic trust. Usernames, real names, and email addresses are all listed and given to other paysites...How he thinks he can pretend and manipulate people into thinking that that was the right thing to do is beyond me.

However, as desperate attempt it is, it does show that they are losing subscriptions fast and that this is having an effect on them so -insert some sort of evil grin here-

Well, it is posted on a "private" section of the site that only people who have no obligation to keep the information secret have access to.  That should make everything okay!  I sure am glad to hear their side of the story. 

 

He figures he only needs to confess to what's on those two images. But we all know it was alot more and alot larger than just those few posts, and a huge amount of people had acces.
I'm not surprised that one of the things TSR uses to lure over other paysite owners is to say: "We'll share this info with you so you can safe your sorry site, but you need to submit some of your work." Maybe not in so many words, but that's what it boils down to.

More than just USERNAMES, and SO NOT restricted to just 2 of your featured artists posting it -  is it a$$hole? and only YOU can see it right?

(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3733/tompt1cenrz0.jpg)

Hell, Toma$$hole, You gave ATWAT access to this, that alone means anyone with a internet connection and mailbox probably read it.

Why is it that TSR always seems to forget that people here save screenshots like they're planning to paper their walls with them? ??? :D

You mean to say that you're the only one who isn't, mando?!

I don't, but then, I never had access to this stuff, either.

Oh Paden, of course not! You should well know that I'm using them to tile my floors instead. :D

Oh, that's right, silly me to have forgotten! Sorry! :D

Well that doesn't stand up to logic.  If they took privacy very seriously, they wouldn't disclose the real names of these people - I mean if only FAs see it, what is the point? So they can be double banned from TSR?

Thomass is a poor liar.

Wasn't he also involved in the Rose sharing of names and whatnot?  That means it wasn't just TSR staff and FA's (which is horrible enough). 

Oh Thomass, how does it feel to have your so called argument being shred to pieces?
I am still pissed off he exposed members such as Bigtruckgirl and Ferris (and many others I know in the Sims Community, REAL contributors and lovely generous people)
What sort of right does that fucktard have? Hmm, let's see, NONE.
Massive. Epic. Phail.

He was yes, and I would presume that Rose is involved in that thread somehow.

And also note how many FAs and staff TSR have - they have over 60 FAs, and loads of exFAs..and from doing a quick glance, there is about 15 staff at the forum. So if you were going to alone go with the current FAs and Staff, thats 75 people. If you then add on all exFAs and exStaff..then the number gets huge, and you realise exactly how many have had access to that forum and therefore could have seen that thread. Then have a look at what paysites the FAs run, and therefore those paysites may be involved in sharing information; LianaSims, Habitat43, Birgit43, PureSims, muranomobilia, OpenHouseSims, 37Sims, sims2studio, TschibiSims (she had some donation sets on her site, from memory..)...And that does not involve paysites which exFAs run/did run.

'Private' forum does not mean there are few people involved. A large number of people have access to it, that we know of..may well be that some SAs can see it (a few SAs run paysites) and other paysite creators/owners, such as Rose. Thomas is attempting to make it look like this is being over exaggerated, when really its not. A lot of people had access to personal information that should not be shared. End of.

See, our name policy here is even more simple:
I have no name. You have no name. We all have no names.

Thomass is a dumbass. Obviously the forum wasn't that freaking private if we have screenshots from it.  ::)


Well slap me silly and call me Sally.

ok....I call you Sally   :P

So what I still don't understand is where he gets off saying those people were "stealing" when they had subscriptions. They paid for their downloads. That's not breaking any law, Thomass, you pathetic whore. However, when you, being the sniveling little pissant that you were born to be, turn around and MAKE PUBLIC the personal information of your PAYING members, you're crossing into some pretty dicey legal territory.

You really need to develop a conscience, you empty bitch.

Because he has a case of the dumbs. I wouldn't talk to him because it might be contagious.

To me stealing is person A walks into a store, grabs a product and puts it into their pocket. Well person B catches person A and turns them into the cops and goes to jail for stealing. I would love for Thomass to come here and explain how people who paid a full subscription cost for pixels was stealing.

To me it would make more sense if person A bought tsr items, and gave them to person B. Well person C (Thomass) catches person B with said items and bans them.

Then it would make more sense on how he could say they are stealing, but it would still be ridiculous.


Bwahaha I shall forever now be Sally Bonbons!

Sally Bonbons sounds absolutely delicious.

Sally it is! :D

alia, did your dragons hatch? I just now noticed the shells had holes in them... Don't mind me, up late last night with some computer issues... Damn piece of laptop.

Nope, not yet. But I'm betting it won't take long now. :)

Argh. I'm on that list. Fuck them.

If they used your real name and could only have gotten that from Paypal, then report TSR for sharing information gained from using the Paypal service.   
Thoma$$ (the owner of the company who agreed to Paypal confidentiality) was the one who posted it for others to see, people that have no business with any Paypal information.

After reading this and the Reflexsims threads, I decided to go and see exactly *what* information they request from you when you place an order.  This page is a direct link from the Paypal button for the 'Black' living set, once you sign in to Paypal, of course.

Warning, kinda huge. (http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp323/littlemisspirate_snark/habitatorder.jpg)

Obviously I blacked out all the personal information, but I am dying to know: why, precisely, would they request your shipping address?  Is there a single compelling reason to do so when the entire transaction is digital?  I know I've done digital transactions that don't request that depth of information.  The only reason I can imagine their desiring it would be for evil, not good.  (Btw, why on God's green earth is it charging me $11.70 for a single set?!  I know the dollar sucks like a vacuum right now, but xe.com tells me the conversion would be approximately $3.65.  Go fig.)

So in conclusion, don't donate to Habitat43 unless you want the Teutonic Twats to have your address.

I know when I donated to Popomundo, they asked for my shipping address to mail me the receipt of the transaction. But that price is weird.... unless they have put a different price on their website, then secretly charged you for another... but I don't think that would be possible.

Someone* really should take that thomas email and the other stuff from this thread and secret it.  That seems like a great way to get the word out. 

*Not me as I am sick right now and anything graphicy is making me nauseous.

tomato, do you need a livejournal account to secret? I refuse to get one.  :-X

No, you don't need an account, and, even if you did, you should be submitting all secrets anonymously anyway.  But I also think it's nifty to have a livejournal account.  of course, I actually have two livejournal accounts...

Looks like PMBD gets another kill mark. Habitat43 announces that they are going free - they list personal reasons for shutting down the subscription portion but it happened so soon after this information came out that my cynical mind sees them as very much connected. I'm sure this site will never be updated again and it will soon completely disappear from the web...I don't thing Birgit can have handle having a site that doesn't pays her for the time she spends making her wallbleedingthroungmaxisobjectoverridingpoorlytextured crap.


http://www.habitat43.com/

Good - I hope the site does disapear. Even tho she's gone free, I doubt there's any sudden moral qualms associated with it. Seems like more of a "Ahh! People are on to me! What can I pull now?" stunt.

Sorry, you thought wrong. They switched from subscription to "donation per set". As if this was less time consuming than subscriptions...
Also this is old news, this was the message which started all this...

Paysite bitch is paysite bitch. There's no changing her. She wants money. She demands money. And she's not entitled to money. A paysite by any other name is still a paysite and we're smart enough to know it. Does she think the world is full of sheep that see a different phrase and don't recognize the difference? Sorry, biatch, I don't say, "baaaa!"

Sorry, you thought wrong. They switched from subscription to "donation per set". As if this was less time consuming than subscriptions...
Also this is old news, this was the message which started all this...
[/quote]

Sorry for the misinformation. I'm not that familiar with the site but I clicked on a few sets that I thought used to be pay and the download popped up.

Edit:
I went back and looked and the sets that now have paypal buttons didn't have them when I was there. I must have been there during the change over from paysite to paysite. lol

Coconut reveals more:

http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/1528.html

I've backed it up up to post 88, and you can download that here: http://www.bigupload.com/files/PUP080K8PX/Proof.zip.html

Pricks.  Oh well here they are still getting butthurt,  and it ain't from having all those heads lodged firmly up thomas's butt either.  I am amazed the guy can still slither.

I backed it up too.  ;D


All 100, but I doubled one pic:

http://www.box.net/shared/1cnsftghck

Thank you - you rock.  ;D

Good job to coconut!

Thank you!  I started from 100 because you had the first 80 because I wanted to get the rest in case something bad happened midway.  But I would have procrastinated if I didn't know you knew. (I'm a huge procrastinator.)

I'm going to report it on sim_wank in the morning, so that I hit everyone's flists.

I've just read it... wow, just wow... Now those who participated cannot deny it anymore.
Thank you, Calalily, for posting the link!

Wow had to walk away from this post for a while.  I was so angry at the way they were talking about people that I have an enormous amount of respect for.  They are like a herd of animals baying for blood and begging for more names.  they left their dignity  and humanity at the door of that forum as they entered.  I only know some of the names of the ones who were posting. Shame on every single one of them.  The one that jumped out and smacked me in the face was Atwat. Every time there is something sneaky and underhand going on she is there.  I know she is allegedly going free and according to the forum rules speak no evil of free sites, but she could open a thousand of them and I still wouldn't want to know or respect her in any way.

What is Sim_wank?

I just googled it, and hur, some interesting links  :D

This thread has left me in a state of shock.  It goes beyond the "pay vs. free" debate and becomes a safety issue.  I thought I couldn't possibly hate TSR more, but this has crossed the line.  I want very badly to contribute in some small way to thoma$$'s downfall and the best I could come up with is to provide a link to the incriminating screenshots in my sig at MTS2.  If anyone thinks this is a bad idea for any reason, let me know.   

Grrrrr!!!!   >:( How angry am I?  Mrs. White angry!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8zNEAqlfqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8zNEAqlfqo) Just replace "Yvette" with "T$R".  I could happily rant forever on this, but I'll leave it to the old salts and resume lurking.


...did I link that correctly?  just keelhaul me if i screwed it up. ;)

edit: yep i screwed it up.  that should be right now.

Speak no evil of freesites, but not a get-out-of-jail free card for freesite owners.  You can talk about my bad behaviour/disagree with me, without bashing my site's content, and that's just fine.  It's once you start saying "Hur, look at the shit Calalily has up for download, what a turd" that you break the rules.  ;)


It's all good - and MTS2 should be fine with that. Or at least, I've never read that they wouldn't be.  :)

I backed it up too.  I think more people should though and it's easy to.  Let the page load and then do "file"-"save as".  Make sure you have it on webpage complete and it will save all the images for you.

I'm surprised, but at the same time not, by how many names I did not recognize.  It's alarming how many people had access to it.

And Atwat, since I know you're reading this, you are a despicable person.  I'm glad I'm not your god because I'd have my work cut out for me punishing you as much as you deserve to be.

http://community.livejournal.com/sim_wank/

Basically its where the drama from the Sims community is posted - mostly recent stuff as its brand new (and about GoS, DL Muslow and the norm).

The best punishment is to ignore them.  I don't mean as in ignore what has been done and what is presumably still being done, I mean don't get all up in arms.

I also noticed at least someone of them are hunting 'pirates' for things like having the same Avi, though why anyone would want pinkpoodlepiss's avi is beyond me.  Its a witch hunt, and I do wonder how many people posted on their list actually just pissed off someone so got tainted [ and cheated of money ] with the pirate brush just for spite.

I suspect that they were finding the pirates avis and having a "killmark board" of their own.

Thanks Anyerfillag.....I couldn't in good conscience go, erm, searching for that one with the kids around  :D

Right click, save page as, and you have everything, including pics in a nice folder.

No problem :D Every time I go onto sites which I think could be a bit questionable (like Sim_Wank) I wonder if my work filter will throw a hissy fit - it blocks some of the most un-dangerous sites ever (like MTS2 for example).

Already said that, Nouk.  ;p

Has anyone read coconut's comments above every post?  They made my day. 

Didn't see them so went back and read lol. 

Yeah, I'm glad she did that to be honest, I was getting ill reading that post.  Mostly because there were some names up there of people at TSR that I really liked.  And seeing them get so gleeful about this was disgusting. 

I remember when TSR was a free site.  I was always surprised when they went pay by charging people to download, I always figured they'd go into hosting instead.  When they started, they made money by having ads and  by hosting other Sim sites.  I don't know how others feel, but if they had kept to that, I wouldn't have cared at all.

It also hurts to see so many of these FA's that I liked showing that they are all in it for the greed.  God, I feel like such a stupid sap because I gave them money.  I really, really, believed that FA's weren't paid, that they did it for the love of the game and the love of creating.   I was stupid enough to believe  that by paying,  I was doing nothing but paying for the servers and the folks to run the servers. 

I'm not surprised that they're a bunch of nasty pricks doing illegal shit, I knew that already. I admit I'm surprised that they are so incredibly stupid. I mean, I knew they were morons, but wow. Atwa did not make the stupidest posts in that thread. They are so very, very dumb. I know I shouldn't be surprised; the few people I've known irl who broke the law to make money were all basically brain-dead. But wow.

Wow so I wake up to this! How low and horrid of them. Whoever said that they lost their humanity in that thread, was correct. It was like they are a pack of ravaged, staring dogs, waiting for their masters to throw them a bone. It disgusts me. Oh and I absolutely love how they assume, because we share sims files, which aren't even their to charge for anyways, that we pirate everything else! If anyone from TSR is reading this, I have Kaspersky Anti-Virus, that baby cost me about 80 dollars. Kaspersky is one of the best anti-virus's out there, and even I get virus pop ups from your fucking website. So no, it's because of cheap virus protection that you have assumed I downloaded because your total fuck twats, it's because there ARE virus's.

How can these people sleep at night? And now it has been proven that more than just a couple people saw those names, and that more than just a couple people now have that information in their hands. Hell, if my name was up on there I would report them to paypal ASAP. Who knows, maybe if they get enough complaints paypal will yonk their service from them.

The addest thing is, some of them might have been saying nasty stuff to fit in......I mean, its not -as- likely, but it could be a part of it.

Really the only person I remember seeing on that, that posted something slightly nasty was Simtomatic. And until we hear her side, I won't exactly accuse her of being rude. But pretty much all the other names are still at TSR.

Their dumb idea that the only good program is an expensive one really irritated me. I bet those morons all think because they have Photoshop (how many of them paid for it?), they're automatically better creators than anyone who uses GIMP. It's expensive so it must be good! I'm taking your money so I must be talented! Idiots.

Oh, and saying nasty stuff to fit in is worse than saying nasty stuff because you really believe it. Are they all 12?

So Thoma$$ is sharing...

with people not involved with the company (TSR) or Paypal...

1) peoples real names

2) peoples real email addys

3) peoples screen names


Doesnt Paypal forbid the sharing of #1 and #2 ??

I agree with neriana - but I don't believe they were doing it to fit in - *plenty* of people failed to post there.  Not one single one said it was wrong - they cheered it on, they enjoyed it, they egged on more posting of information.  There didn't seem to be any compulsory posting requirement, so why the hell would you say something nasty unless you wanted to?

Simtomatic is still at TSR - she went back there after a brief stint as a possible spy for the secret forum they were referring to.  Frankly, making any concession for anyone who posted there is absolutely sickening. They posted there because they liked it, and they didn't care whose information was shared, who saw it.  They were laughing behind the backs of real people, and to say they were just doing it to fit in? Still makes you a bully, and a bad person. 

This was a forum - not a real time chat.  They had chances to read what they were replying to, and they still replied. And if they're going to be let off because you secretly want them to be let off, and they can do no wrong, well then, sit back and let TSR hoodwink you all you want - they're doing a damn good job, apparently. They can show you actual pictures of them being completely immoral bastards, cheering other bastards on, and you still swallow it.  >:(

"By entering into our User Agreement, you agree that, with respect to other users' personally identifiable information that you obtain through the site or through a PayPal-related communication or PayPal-facilitated transaction, you will only use this information for: (a) PayPal-related communications that are not unsolicited commercial messages, (b) using services offered through PayPal (e.g. insurance, delivery and fraud complaints), and (c) any other purpose that such user expressly agrees to after adequate disclosure of the purpose(s).

In all cases, you must provide users with the opportunity to remove themselves from your database and review any information you have collected about them. In addition, under no circumstances, except as defined in this Section, can you disclose personally identifiable information about another PayPal user to any third party without our consent and the consent of such other user after adequate disclosure. Note that law enforcement personnel and other rights holders are given different rights with respect to information they access."

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_privacy-outside

I think TSR may also be violating EU law with their little list of real names.

Oh, I wasn't condoning it.  I think saying something nasty to try and look cool is as dumb as doing it for greed.  thing is, the root of the matter is that its neither.  Its for power and the feeling of superiority.  They are being nasty so they can feel good and righteous and oh so smug in how much better they are compared to us 'Pirates'.  The ones who posted aren't even doing it for greed.

And Thomas....he wasn't doing it as a 'Don't let these people have accounts' thing, like for a store with a bouncing check problem.  He was doing it to gloat.

* Points and laughs at the pathetic TSR clowns who foolishly thought their secret forum would stay a secret.

Nice to see them without the phony masks they wear for their idiot subscribers. Even the "quiet" ones prove why they're totally at home with the rest of the creepy twats. I really hope this is shared with as many simmers as possible.

Also, your commentary is EPIC WIN, Coconut.

Thanks for making this info public, Coconut.  I'm embarrassed to admit I was once close to some of those clowns.  It's pretty clear that no one there is thinking for herself.  They're too eager to belong to Tom's shitty little club.  It's a classic case of groupthink. >:(

I'm most pissed at Simtomatic because she pwned us.  Hopefully we won't get fooled again.

We didn't get pwned, we sent that little bitch packing. As for their bullshit, wow, makes me realize that that we really must be making their asses hurt if they're going all chicken with the head cut off. Think about it: if we were not making a dent into their bank accounts, do you think they'd go to the lengths they have to identify and punish the people here and at the old SFV?

We've done some damage, we're still doing some damage. They've done some damage, but the difference between the two is that what they've done violates the PayPal terms of use and possibly some laws. And, I know for a fact that some of their employees don't shell out for the games, they go to places like Pirate Bay. I can't quote my source, but it's reliable. Hey, Thomass, who are the pirates now? The ones who follow the EULA of EA Games, or the ones that make a profit using free and stolen programs? Looks to me like you're on the pointy spiked fence, dude, and I hope those sharp things ruin your favorite form of entertainment. Wanker...

 Paden pwns.

I have one thing to say: (http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9237/bowingsmileyxy3.gif)

ETA: I suck at BB coding

TSR have done a lot of damage to themselves with that thread..when it was revealed about the sharing of information like that it made people very pissed, but now that the posts can fully be seen they are completely screwed. Its the language they use and the bitterness that is so offensive, because its offensive to non sharers, normal subscribers, normal members, and normal downloads in whatever website community. Really offensive. As per usual, TSR has forgotten that public opinion on them and awareness of what the site is like are very important. They are digging themselves their own grave. Every single time something like this is revealed about that site, I feel more and more strongly that they are doing 'our' job and destroying themselves..

And is ShinoKCR, who is shown posting in the screenshots, the same one who came to the Reflex thread and tried to convince people not to be harsh on the FAs because they were not involved??

Eta: it seems it is the same person, how extremely low of them...and very very stupid.

And good to see that Cal has already posted the link over on the Reflex thread. I hope the reaction sinks into TSR staff and FAs exactly what they've been doing, these posts particularly say it well:


Mm, has this made Sim_Wank yet at all? Or any other sites? I presume its already up at SimCave - I find it deeply ironic that two members who TSR gleed over for catching out (Charlotte and Ferris) then went and formed a file sharing site which has grown very well and is rather popular. Irony. Banning people does not mean they will stop file sharing - it means they get cleverer  ;)

I think it should be simsecreted as well. To try and reach as many people as possible. Hell, if we can even get this onto other forums, not even FSF forums, and spread the word. I think as many people as possible deserve to know about this.

As for what Paden and Cala said, I completely agree. They are all two faced and are doing whatever they can to try and protect their precious monies. I think this information is exactly what we needed to get in a few critical hits to TSR, and hell we didn't even do it! TSR did it to themselves.

Omg.  :( . I just read the IllegalPaypalInfo zip you guys uploaded.
What the hell is wrong with them? This isn't mean, it's freakin' idiotic. Even for them.

I hope someone of those in the "hall of shame" sue their asses.
(Hall of Shame; how creative, hear me roar with laughter : . . . . . . . . . . . . . )

Can somebody get a big juicy fine for this? Or I'm getting too dramatic  :D ?

P.s. Is there a link anywhere to the secret phorum?

I can tell you for sure ONE of those FA's who posted in that thread is a pirate themselves.... from way back when PMBD didn't exist.  They are lucky I don't name names.  Hypocrite. 

It's both mean and idiotic, Sharonicle. You have a group of total asshats cheering on Thomass as he freely shares the personal information of people who are NOT breaking any laws. It even became a form of entertainment over there (how sick and mean spirited is that?). All of the useless morons who participated in that thread deserve all of the shit they're going to get for it.

WOW  :o I was hooked! The irony of it all is that a lot of the ones that are still in danger of having their personal data shared are the ones that are still financially supporting TSR. Little do they know how their loyalty gets rewarded, Here's hoping a lot of subscribers get to know the truth.

I wonder how long it will be before EA gets wind of this, and if they will look on TSR as the same 'professional' outfit that they pretended to be. It's pretty clear just browsing through a few of those screens, that TSR are exposed as a bunch of thugs, engaging in activities that are both illegal and immoral, by the time you get to the last post, you are left feeling sick to the pit of your stomach. Will EA laugh along with them while they all joke about the trojans they infect people with, even going to the lowest of lows of Atwat making 'trojan' screenshots, and TSR staff uploading and featuring them, while they all laughed in their own downloaders faces. Then we have Thomass smug at stealing 118 days worth of subscription money from ferris, it takes a special kind of smug bastard to brag about that. As expected both Tomass and Atwat seem to be the main ring leaders, but an eyeopener for some is there is certainly no shortage of willing criminals in the crowd, none of them showing an ounce of common decency nor a flicker of hope that your paypal data is safe with any of them.

*snags screenies*  :P

ETA

That's TWO if you count fired old hags who get their peggy hair from the booty, ATWAT

Wank report here. (http://community.livejournal.com/sim_wank/6683.html)

What struck me most when reading that thread was just how damn stupid they all sound.  Pirates insulting TSR are almost always witty and clever, but everyone in that TSR thread sounded like a sycophantic idiot.  And these people are running a company?  No wonder it's crashing to the ground.

As unfortunate as the sharing of info was, I hope that this finally gives us "pirates" a legal leg to stand on.  The EULA thing may not get us anywhere (even though it should), but this is definitely illegal, and I bet PayPal is going to be more reactive than EA has been.  This isn't just pixels--it's people's real-life privacy.

I just have one question - is anyone reporting them to Pay-pal.  Preferably the people on the list?

It's always the outspoken ones huh?

All I can say is I am soooo glad we did not give them the reaction that they so desperately wanted.  We quietly worked behind closed doors, and thankfully a member discovered something that helped to lead us to an answer.    It must have worked too because if that's all they caught, then surely they must realized they have FAILED.  

SoggyFox - I hope someone is.  Maybe we should ask Ferris, her name is all over that thread. 

I read over at Sim_Wank that someone is calling EA about this, and calling paypal. TSR is probably going to get their asses handed to them.

I doubt EA is going to do a damn thing. I don't expect much from them. Maybe Paypal will.

I don't know about that, EA already has enough problems dealing with a class action suit.  They might not want to be connected to anything else that can be construed as illegal or immoral, at this point in time.  The timing for this to completely come out, might be perfect timing indeed.  EA may actually want to distance themselves from this.  Just a thought, I figured I would put out there.

I would think that EA would be, at the very least, a little concerned that a site they've had such a cozy relationship with is passing around the private information of some of it's members. But then again, it is EA and (as noted in coconut's blistering commentary) stupid does attract stupid.

Two class action suits.  Even if they might condone the whole thing, they can't be seen to approve of such blatant disregard of laws.

They can and will ignore it though.  When this whole crap started with 'tracking' and perhaps spyware in the payfiles we at the SFV contacted EA, giving them the information we knew at the time and their basic response was that TSR was not affiliated nor endorsed with EA (You know even though EA invites them to fan events and there is mutual adverting between the two), and thereby EA is not going to be bothered policing fansites.   

I am not saying don't try for it, I am just saying don't expect much.  You'll get a response from someone who acts all concerned, but absolutely nothing will come of it, like nothing ever does with EA. 

NEWSFLASH

Coconut posted an update
http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/07/ (http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/07/)

Edited: Oh I see the new posts now. Sorry Katrina!

Um..yeah. I feel weird calling them stupid now.. geez.  :D

*grabs popcorn to watch TSR desroy itself*


ROFLMAO  ;D

Newbie wants to know: what's the story behind this benny boy?

I want to know more about Simtomatic.  Why is s/he called 'spy?'

Simtomatic went over to Natural Sims, declaring FREE and then jumped back onto TSR's ship. I don't know the full story, but Dina may have more information.
Simtomatic uses Nouk's hair on her avi over at TSR (well what I can gather from the FA posts that coconut put up) and for some reason, I have this urge to yank it off.

Dear God. They're all just so fucking stupid. How do they even manage to turn a computer on?

They put peanut butter on the power switch then set the pet squirrel loose.

For some reason I'm surprised that there's no mention of any of this at T$R, at least that general users can see...

"Isn't it funny they say all the time say(?) that they never share files.."  - Atwa

Hmmm...so like yourself then? 

TSR is probably working on the double to make sure no one speaks a word of this.  I am sure if anyone had commented it has been quickly deleted.  Just look how fast any negative comments were removed from LDG guestbook entry where she announced that she was going pay err FA.

:D

They really are amazingly dumb. I'm beginning to think they're on a paysite because they honestly can't figure out how to make money any other way.

Some more has been updated.  ::)  I'm going to go to bed and read the whole thing tomorrow. I don't feel like reading a new one every five minutes as it's being updated. I'm getting antsy.

Yeah, I keep watching it and refreshing it.  I just seen a post in there that really show another side of one of the ex-FA's.  Aikea did post in that thread after all, and from the comment that she made in there, she is fully aware of what is going on and what that whole thread is about.  Despite her claims of not really realizing what the thread was about, we now have proof that what she said, wasn't true after all.

Yup, now I know how atwat feels when she visits here  ;D strangly addictive though

Meh, maybe I'm too nice, but I'll wait for Aikea to give her account of it before I jump to conclusions. I mean, I'm admin of a non-Sims related forum and there have been dozens of dramas that, when people mention it months later, I have to go back and see what the drama was about and what my stance about it was at the time so I won't contradict myself. And since she's no longer FA, she doesn't have that privilege.
But well, we'll see.

ETA for clarification.

Honestly, unless coconut posts some actual damaging screenies of Aikea, then I see no harm. She wasn't in the thread begging for more. What upsets me though is that I feel lied too. She said she never knew what that thread was about, and now it appears that her information was false. I'm not going to throw her under the bandwagon though, because since so far all I see is one post, she could have just completely forgotten about it. Hell there are plenty of threads I've posted in within the past week here, that I have plain forgot about.

Another interesting tidit: http://silverwindclub.web.fc2.com/index.html

Anyone remember this site? Yeah the troll who came here to beg for it's creations not to be shared? Yeah well the site closed, and they have someones name AND location posted right on their front page. To me that is completely and utterly ILLEGAL.

I think the difference is not whether she posted or not, but where she is now.  Like I said on simscave maybe that is how she felt then, when she was surrounded by so many peers who felt the same way.   It doesn't make it less wrong at the time, but she moved away from TSR, and that sort of behavior and that is an important point to remember. 

Maybe she honestly forgot she even posted, after all it did appear she was kind of called into the thread by Atwa.   Maybe she was embarrassed that she even saw the damn thing so she did lie.  Either way I am sure we have all done something in the past that we are not particularly proud of, but it's how we learn from it and grow that matters, right?

From what I can see she never said she didn't know what the thread was about, she said she had forgotten about it: (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,2113.msg108978.html#msg108978)


She also says this: (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,2113.msg109033.html#msg109033)


Let's please not put words in somebody's mouth that aren't there (yet?) That one post in the thread looks to me like she's just reacting to atwat trying to stir shit up about her "coat that's coming out on Tuesday" already being requested at SFV.

edit: Or what Sherry said a helluva lot better than I did. I got quotes does that count?  ;D

Who puts words into her mouth? I think you should re-read what I posted. I said I wasn't going to accuse her of anything until she had her say.


I think you need to get your panties out of a twist.  ;)

Yeah, I was replying more to this part of your post:


And if I came off as panty-twisted forgive me. I just thought having aikea's actual quotes brought to the front of the thread might be a good refresher of what she did say about the thread when it was first brought up, you know?

Hehe it's fine. Sorry for misquoting my information. But honestly I still feel cheated in a way. I like her, and I love her creations. Honestly I would rather wait for her to post about how she feels about this than to make assumptions about her.

Will a cute kitteh with an I love you heart around it's neck help?

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x283/lucyvanklinken/140695_1.jpg)

Sorry for being snippy and I agree, we should let aikea take it from here.

1) Atwa thinking ogres originated with World of Warcraft is pathetic. She really doesn't get out much, does she? Has she ever opened a book? (I want to know what server Toma$$ is on so I may kill his character repeatedly. But it's probably a European server, so I guess that won't be possible. Oh, or it's an illegal private server, that's more likely considering Toma$$.)

2) Atwa commented on Toma$$ getting hard. I almost puked.

3) Padre333: I don't hate you. You're not worth it. I do, however, actually hate this prevalent attitude among paysite creators: if someone wants my work and they haven't paid for it, I don't want to work any more. Look, dumbasses, actual artists are thrilled when people appreciate their work. What the hell is WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?! Seriously, anyone who has this attitude needs jaws of life to extract their heads from their asses. It is the stupidest meme in the Sims 2 community, and that's saying something.

People grow and change, and by going free the lady has made one of the biggest changes of all. She's found out what the other half is like and that we aren't that bad. Certainly, we've never lied to her and her creating partner like Thomass and Atwat did. This is just something we can chalk up as a learning experience for her and move on. On a personal note, I know that I've written/said things months and years ago that when I reread them, I go, "Huh? Whu? I said that? What in the hell was I thinking?"

- in other words, "Let them eat cake!"

(Incidentally, does anyone else hear the voice of an even nellier Christopher Lowell whenever padre333 posts?)

Awwww I think 'the village idiot' is cute, can I have one?  :D

That made me aww in real life.  ;DI love it when kittys look to innocent.

EW. That didn't even occur to me at first, but now I can't unsee it... unread it. Whatever.

I'm a little weirded out at Atwa's saying "One by one they all fall... even the followers." WTF does that even mean? Are they banning pirate-sympathizers as well as actual pirates now?

If you play Oblivion, you could always mod the ogres so that they have Tommy boy's face in them. Makes the killing even more pleasant.  ;D

The Irony of all this is that no one here is a follower we come here because we want to and because we are fed up with T$R bullshit.

However the "SHEEPLE"  FA's at T$R are only too happy to be led around by their shepherd Tomarse. And he is ever such the diligent
shepherd guarding his flock keeping them reproducing like an assembly line,  after all thats where the bux are right so he can feather his nest!!

Then when his "SHEEPLE" get old and wrinkly or too hard to handle and dont follow, he sends them off for the slaughter. Just like any
good shepherd. Do we really expect any less of him. Trust me they are feeling the pain over there the content gets tackier the FA's produce
shit like good little "SHEEPLE" and his nest aint as feathered as it used to be, seems its filling up with twigs and thats gotta be mighty
uncomfortable...LOL


FN: Has a sheep farm in real life so thought the analogy was purrfect!

I'm just gonna quietly laugh at myself for a minute.  I only just noticed this thread coconut's been updating is over a year old!  Once I did notice that, this comment by jsf made me roffle that much harder.


ARR!

Well, well, that's it for tonight I guess. My rum and Coke were running out anyway (actually just the Coke, cause I don't drink... You guys can have the rum  ;D) Off to bed I go, real life will probably kick my butt tomorrow for staying up late.  ;D

Oh I was shaking with quiet rage when I read that - I made sure that people knew ShinoKCR was involved and cheering it on - and she made it worse for herself because now she actually looks like a barefaced liar, ready to placate the fans, but secretly ready to harm them behind their backs. I posted it to SimsCave, GoS, ReflexSims and here, so that it would get maximum views.

Another thing is clear too - creating is not about love of the game, it's about money.  Great decision, Living Dead Girl.  ::)

Wow. Idiocy is an STD, and TSR is full of carriers.

SamanthaS, thank you for finding and quoting my initial reaction to the thread.  Saves me having to dig it up.   ;)

Sherry, you summed it up quite well (and thank you), but I just want to make it clear that I honestly forgot having ever posted in that thread.  I knew coconut had screencaps of the thread, so why would I lie if I remembered the post?  (Not being bitchy, btw, just trying to make a point.)  I'm actually mortified that I did post in there, but I still wouldn't have lied about it if I remembered I'd done it.  If coconut has more posts from me in that thread, I would expect them to be posted as well.

Titan, I said I saw the thread as a list of banned users from their tracking... thing.  I'm not seeing how my post in any way contradicts that...?

Other than that, I don't know how many times I'm expected to say that I don't condone the sharing of personal information, or whatever else it is I'm expected to say.  I understand that this is a big deal, but I have to admit I'm getting a bit tired of instant suspicion cast upon me for something that happened last year.  I'm not there anymore, I have no plans to ever go back, I hate everything TSR stands for, what the fuck more do you want?  It's very easy to say you'd have done things differently had you been in the situation, but when you're caught up in the propaganda machine that is TSR, things are different.  Black = white and white = black, the rest of the community is your enemy and we're the only ones you can count on, so on and so forth.  (And for the record, I almost hate writing this as I know this discontent will be rejoiced over on TSR.)

Edited because part of my post got eaten...

Yes, but that's what current FA ShinoKCR said when they saw the initial post, all "don't paint us as all bad" - and then we find that they were in fact cheering the whole thing on.


Not suspicion if we have proof you participated. Last year or ten years ago makes no never mind to the people who had their information shared.  Frankly, saying "oh it was last year" is probably part of the reason that people feel so suspicious.  Their information - personal, dangerous information was shared. To discount it as "so last year" is perhaps why people don't think you think it's a big deal.


I *know* I would have done things differently. The fact is that you had time to sit back and think about it, and you didn't.  Not all of the blame rests with TSR, some of it does rest with you. The more you try to skate away from that, the more people will question your motives - if you can't be honest with yourself, and refuse to acknowledge that you were wrong, then you certainly can't be honest with us.

Questions?
1) Are there any more posts in that thread that aikea_guinea forgot about?
2) Is aikea_guinea the only one who posted in that thread who has the guts to come here and
    talk about it without acting like a 2 year old about it?
3) Aren't aikea_guinea's downloads something most everyone here covet?
4) Isn't aikea_guinea the same aikea_guinea everyone applauded leaving TSR and being a free site?

I'm working a few thoughts on this out in my head. Answers to these questions will help things be a little clearer to me.

So you'd all be fine if I took the IP addresses of people who visit my site, and found their address, and then their real names through internet searches?  Cause I can totally do that if I wish.  Would being free make a damn bit of difference?

That's the whole point to this, downloads, freesite aside.  Share personal information about people, and you shouldn't hide behind downloads or anything else. It's got nothing to do with the site and everything to do with the bad behaviour of the people involved in that.

Oh, and while we're at it, Atwat is a freesite owner, so how about she skates too?

I fail to see how anything Aikea said that was presented in any screenshots from TSR painted her as condoning the sharing of personal information. Furthermore, what you seem to fail to realize is that it wouldn't have made a damned difference if we'd spoken against the information sharing then. Thomas would have still done it, period. On that note, we most certainly did NOT share any personal information ourselves, then or ever. I don't know how anyone could have gotten that idea from the screenshots coconut posted, but who knows?

Frankly, I'm disgusted that you, and others, seem to feel the need to put the blame on Aikea, and me, and whoever was privy to this information, after we've LEFT. Is that no longer good enough for anyone? Do you need an accessible scapegoat to start throwing stones at? Aikea came in here to point out that she wasn't, in any way, denying anything she said. Does she regret posting that shit? Yes. The same way we both regret having been a part of TSR for so long. What, precisely, do you want us to do now? I've asked that previously when accusations were flung at us in this thread earlier, you know. Are you going to turn us out, disgrace our names, issue a bounty on our heads? Do you want a hand-written apology from us personally, delivered to every person whose information was shared, in-person, with a large monetary condolance attached? Seriously, what the fuck? We don't represent TSR in any possible way anymore, so what on earth can we do about it now?

Yeah, I know, I only seem to speak up to defend Aikea. Whatever. She's my best friend and I'm not going to sit idly by while she's slandered in such a pointless, repetitive way, and while her fucking honesty is questioned. Christ.

No, calalily. That's not why I asked that question. I asked it because I thought that aikea_guinea had the respect of alot of the members here. I'm confused as to why you posted what you did. That question doesn't have a thing to do with that thread at TSR. It's about her leaving TSR and having a free site now. It has nothing to do with sharing information.


ETA: As for sharing personal information and hiding behind downloads to do it, I don't see any evidence that Aikea did that. I saw ONE post she made in that thread and she's explained that she didn't realize what they were doing. Now, if a person believes that or not, that's their own decision obviously. But, I'm leaning towards believing her because I don't see any reason (posts, etc.) anywhere else to make me think otherwise. Now, if it were anyone else in that thread? I wouldn't believe them.

And, yeah, Atwat may be a freesite owner, but she was also all over that thread peeing her panties each and every time another pirate was banned. So, the only way she can skate is if she owns a pair.

I feel that what they were doing was cheering 'file sharers' being caught with TSR's 'watermark,' and their subsequent banning from TSR.  It's no different than cheering a kill mark on here.  Please understand, once again, I'm in no way defending TSR; as I've said before, the sharing of names was a completely malicious and stupid thing to do.  This is just how I see these (rather silly) replies to the topic.  If you see the replies another way, do please explain.


No, I didn't say it wasn't a big deal.  I never said it wasn't a big deal, nor did I ever 'discount it as "so last year".'  What I meant was the thread in question is a year old, so I'm sorry I didn't instantly think of it and instantly remember I'd posted in it.  I'm also sorry if I've been misunderstood.


Then you're much better at escaping brainwashing than I am, and therefore a better person.  I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'time to sit back and think about it.'  I also don't understand how I'm skating away from any of this.  I fully admitted to knowing about the thread, and never once tried to say otherwise.  What I've said is that I didn't think of it as a list of real names and contact information, but more of a list of user names that were caught with their tracking whateverthefuckitwas on the files.  Obviously the list has more than just user names on it, but my brain didn't register beyond that.  If you think this is me being dishonest with myself, I'm afraid you're mistaken.

Calalily, I'm honestly confused by your anger towards me at this point.  I never personally shared anyone's information with anyone else anywhere, nor would it ever occur to me to do so.  Am I correct in understanding that it was my inaction at the time?  If so, at this point the most I can do is apologize for that.


There very well may be, but I honestly cannot remember.  I know in my time as an FA I had some rather not-nice opinions about PMBD, and probably vocalized them from time to time.  I said before that I take full responsibilty for the things I've said in the past.  If it comes up that I posted in that thread again, coconut is more than welcome to post the screencaps. 

I do understand where Aikea's coming from, as I've said before, when I was part of cult TSR, I said a few not so nice things about pirates myself (during those long tedious convos with Atwat). TSR really do brainwash you into believing they are good and wholesome and pirates are lowly thieves. In all the time I was there not one person even mentioned the EULA to me, I'd never heard of it, I guess I'm just one of those people who agrees to anything to load the game! I only saw the light when Atwa sent me here to try to get me to troll. I didn't, I read and began to understand more what was really happening. When the time came for me to join here I was already de-programmed, and things I had said in the past to atwat were no way what I felt anymore. I believe that's the case with Aikea.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's the case with the others in that thread, just because the thread is old, it in no way means they've all reformed, far from it. The reason I say that is because the other posters are so far cheering along to peoples data being illegally shared, baying for blood and laughing at their money being stolen, not to mention trojens and virus's (sp) That is something I never did nor would I have ever been a part of, So far I haven't seen a post of Aikea's doing that either. Anyone who would behave like that would never genuinly change in my eyes. They are old enough to know right from wrong, and thats not just a case of lack of information.

Of course I could be well off key here and Coconut posts something really incriminating Aikea wrote next time, but until that happens I want to give her the same benefit of the doubt that I was shown by all you awesome people when I came here.

*gets off soap box at throws another rock at TSR*

I'm divided here.

On one hand, I don't think that many people would have done as you Calalily.  If they were you, they wouldn't have joined TSR in the first place.  Could you honestly say that before the days of anti-paysite, you wouldn't have?  You might (probably will) not have joined, but certainly not everybody.  Hell, even me, if I could make a shirt, may have joined.

On the other hand, I was sickened to read Aikea's response in that thread.  

On my third hand (yes, I have a third hand  :D), I doubt I could remember everything that I've posted.  I may have posted something about sharing Aikea's sims, or saying that they're ugly, or how Aikea's stuff is not all that great, but I'd be hard pressed to remember it, and you to find it.  Yes, it probably wasn't anything illegal, but Aikea knowing that is still up for debate.  We can't know for sure that she knew the illegality of it.

So, my verdict?

Judging by how long she showed up, I'd say that Aikea may not have known, 100-something posts in, what they thread is about, and that she really believed that it was legal methods of finding filesharers.  I'd also give her a wider berth than Atwat, Dot, Tug, and all the people who were there from the beginning, cheering Thomas on every other post, and suggesting other ways that definitely were illegal.  I'd rather not alienate her any more than we have and give her a mostly clean slate.  I think she's done far less than we want to pin her for.  Just because she's the only FA we can talk to does not make her responsible for the ones we can't talk to.  Until I see something painting her as bad as Atwat or Tug (or any of them), I'd still think we should be as nice to Aikea and Geldyh as we have been.

Uhmm, fucking excuse me? Up to this point, nobody here was being ANYTHING other than civil as far as it pertained to aikea_guinea. And yet, you come barreling in here accusing us of slander when you and your BFF were a party to all the SLANDEROUS SHIT that went down over at TSR. Where the hell do you get off? If you can't comprehend why the hell people would have honest questions about the extent of her involvement than you're just not trying hard enough. But here's a clue - she's on record having CHEERED ON as people's personal PAYPAL information was being shared.

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/sims-2/346503-custom-content.html#post5881557

i am a self confessed total noob and don't know how to screenshot

I'm certainly not suggesting you did.


I don't think leaving erased any and all behaviour. Atwat left (although not of her own accord) does that mean all is well, we never speak of it again?


Accessible scapegoat?  I have called ShinoKCR to account for their posts, why should anyone else get special treatment?


It's not a lie, ergo not slander.  We have screenshots to prove it. You're not being much of a friend if you're just willing to curse out everybody rather than listen to how others might perceive her.  She wants to put this behind her, I am sure, and some pirates are questioning her actions.  

I might have been the one to ask the questions, but you can bet your arse that fifty other people are sitting there thinking the same thing.  But they're not going to say anything because they're afraid that you'll go straight back to pay at TSR.  I personally think you are or should be better than being so petty, so I asked the questions the others won't.  

If you think it better *insert hollow laughter here* serves her interest to say "Shut the fuck up bitches she's free" then go right ahead with your "defence" of her.  I think if she has a chance to answer those questions, everything will be much better.


Then how exactly does it pertain to this discussion at all?  For free sites, you get all the kudos from me.  For bad behaviour, just because you have a free site doesn't mean you get to do whatever you feel like. Consider those questions ignored.


Except it doesn't include their real names, usernames, and email addresses.


I don't expect you to remember it, but just discounting your post as "well I've left now, haven't I?" - that's not an excuse.


It's a forum - not real time chat.  I have time to sit here and think about my posts and what is right, so does everyone else.


I don't actually feel so much anger, as disappointment.  I like you personally, and I believed your statement on GoS:



Except you posted.  I had the impression that you glanced at it, and then went off somewhere else.  But you posted, and that to me requires a little bit more explanation than "distracted while posting on the same topic with a post that makes sense in context".


Saying nasty things about PMBD is the name of the game.  I have no issues with that whatsoever.


I agree that not many people would act that way (however, it was thrown as a sort of before you throw stones type dealie - I'm pointing out that I can toss all the stones I wish) - but I don't truck with mealy mouthing that someone should be let off because they were not thinking. Slippery slope and all that, everyone would be claiming stupidity for base behaviour.

Hi Guys

I'm confused.. I don't see Aikea or Gedya (sorry sp, it's late and I've just gotten home from work) knew about this.. I just revisited the Coconut blog to check..

I thought we'd already had this discussion with A and G and they admitted that they may have known about it and just forgotten? I've known about a truckload of stuff in my time, and I've seen those monolithic big sites in action up close.. As they've already said they don't feel that way anymore, shouldn't we just move on from the discussion? I mean, I wouldn't have a go at Sherry either, she's changed her mind about how she feels about stuff like that..

Kath

My head is exploding here.  Recapping:

Okay, coconut posts about sharing paypal information.
We get pissed because Aikea and Geldyh didn't tell us.
Aikea says she paid little mind to it when there.
Coconut posts a screencap of one of her responses to the sharing.
We get pissed because we feel we've been lied to.

You're right about the mealy mouthing part, but we've ripped them a new one many times here.  Even with the clean slate we gave each other (A&G and the pirates), there's a lot of bad blood here.  They've apologized, but I'm not so sure what we're after here.  Are we mad because they didn't screencap every post of questionable legality?  And what about Coconut?  S/he still has access to this stuff, s/he's screencapping it, but I've no idea what she's doing for us.  This information in its entirety has been rehashed and released to Hecubus before.

She posted in the thread http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/07/ (http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/07/)


Yeah, cause sweeping it under the rug will mean it will never come up again, and there won't be a secret made about it this week.  Don't be naive.  Jessica of WickedSims published the names of donators this week, and got torn a new one on simsecret (and I got a very nice email apologising about it, so I presume others did too). If Aikea would like to deal with a diverse community up in arms, and the resulting fallout, she's free to ignore this whole thing.  Just because we move on, doesn't mean everyone else does too, and makes damn sure that she won't. I don't see it as helpful to let everyone in the community to tear into her everywhere - maybe you do. I didn't call her names and I wasn't rude or angry, but others reading this won't be so kind.


We didn't share their personal information here.  In fact, PMBD frowns upon that sort of Whois information for all paysites.


A clarification of what their position was, and perhaps an apology without reservations such as "I've left" "I wasn't thinking" "I didn't notice" "I hate TSR now" "I'm free now".


Coconut's motives and reasons are unknown.  We cannot know this, and we cannot call them to account in any way, as we don't know how they got the information.  Nevertheless, the information provided has helped subscribers whose personal information has been shared.

This is how it pertains to this dicussion:
Aikea was a FA at TSR. She made one post, that we know of. Others involved in that thread made many, many more. Yet, none of them are having any of the "rage" invoked by this thread directed at them because they're NOT HERE. Aikea is. None of them are having their honesty questioned because they're NOT HERE. Aikea is.
I've been reading each post in this thread as it's made and it seems like Aikea is taking the brunt of everyone's outrage over this. Why? Because she was a FA at TSR, she posted in that thread and she's HERE. Everyone is entitiled to their opinions and everyone else is entitled to not agree with those opinions. Mine is that others here need to have someone to point their finger at and blame for what happened- Aikea is that person. And that confuses me because she didn't start that thread, she didn't name names, she didn't do the pee-pee dance over it....Yes, I understand that she didn't do anything to stop it, but I really don't see what she could've done- besides contact PayPal herself. Thomas would've kept the thread going even if Aikea had protested what was going on in that thread.
Wait...I'm getting side-tracked here. What else confuses me? From what I've read in other threads, most everyone here was thrilled to learn that Aikea was leaving TSR and starting up her own free site. I got the impression that she was respected for that. I also got the impression that many here are friendly with her. So- why turn on her now? The past is the past. Not much anyone can do about what happened.

Umm...for bad behavior etc., etc. I don't believe that anyone anywhere is trying to say the Aikea is sharing personal information she may get from her new site? When she was at TSR, since it has subscription-only downloads and she was a FA....TSR ain't a freesite and even if it were, nothing excuses what happened there.

Bah. To hell with it. I don't know why I'm bothering trying to explain my question and it's relevance to this thread to someone who deemed my questions ignorable.

Which is why she's being given a chance to defend herself, and I didn't write her off as a complete bastard, but rather asked her questions about it and critiqued her position that was previously given.  I mean, if you'd prefer I write her off as a complete bastard, I can totally do that. 


Rubbish. I don't blame her for the whole thread, just for her post in it.  That's hardly the vagueness she spoke about when she mentioned it as a glancing look. All the others are totally to blame for their own posts in it - just none of them have come here and given the impression they barely knew what it contains.


Or even not posted, giving it her tacit approval.


Turn on her? Overreact much? I didn't swear, I didn't write her off - I asked for an answer to the questions raised by her posting as she previously has.

I can't believe I have to reiterate this *again*. I should make a copypasta of this and just paste it everytime a pirate doesn't see the difference because every time we question actions, some one says freesite!!!!1!!.  Disagreeing with a site owners actions has nothing to do with their site. It may have escaped your notice, but I own a freesite, and calling me to account as you just has is not an attack on my site, but a disagreement with me. So, if you want to follow the rule that way, better get some lube, because you're going to have to take all I dish out, owning a freesite and all.


You said it had nothing to do with the subject at hand here:


So why the hell did you ask it? Cause right now, we're talking about sharing personal information.

Thanks mate.. I missed that one. I thought I'd read all of the Coconut blog.

I dunno.. I've done stuff I regret in my life, and I know that, so on a personal level, I don't hold it against Aikea. I'm not suggesting we sweep this under the rug, but maybe once we get this sorted we don't recycle it like three week old socks?

And that makes all the difference, it seems.  We see Dot, Tug, Padre, Atwa, and Neptune Suzy posting in that thread from the beginning but no one is even attempting to sign their guestbooks or has really delved into it here.  A&G, however, are here and have been free for a bit so they get the flak?  They've said they weren't involved in the sharing of information, that they didn't know that it was illegal information and thought it was the trackers, and that the thread was largely ignored by her.  They've emphasized that they've left because that's a big thing with you guys, but they've scattered their reasoning for this since the info was announced.


I agree with you there.

The biggest thing for me is that I thought Hecubus had this information for a long time, either that or that we all knew that Paypal information was being shared, we just didn't have screenshots?  This information is a year old.

That's what I've hoped. It's going to be spread all over the place - is it not better for her to deal with one person on one forum, than dealing with all the sims communities out there?  Would she prefer emails, or guestbooks, or Simsecret? And when it does come up, someone will link here, and it will be over.

Last time I looked, 13 guests were lurking over this thread - to think the questions are ever going to stop is foolish.  They should just be answered.


I just think they're rotten bastards.  I hope that Aikea is not. I don't sign guestbooks - I've been accused of harassing paysite owners, and I have only posted to a guestbook once (Enayla stuff being sold on 2-for-U).  I don't do that, and won't do that.


Except she posted.

I see this as getting a little out of hand. Aikea admits by her own volition that whilst being at TSR it was very much a "brainwashed" existence. The way one would "fit in" would be to follow the anti-pirate code they have over there. I personally do not care what she wrote a year ago, just as she shouldn't care what I wrote about her a year ago. I used her as an example of shitty pay items, which is pretty insulting, and she posted her approval for catching pirates, which is also insulting.  
Do I regret saying those things? I am unsure :D It was just that long ago. She escaped TSR, cleared her head and began to create for the love of the game. Which is ultimately what we want ALL paysite owners to do.

maybe when Aikea starts feeling a bit more comfortable they can come back, and see it's just because people feel understandeably vulnerable about their personal details and maybe just say something simple about being sorry it happened or something and reiterating she just didn't remember?

Amen.

Aikea and Geldyh already took some yellings earlier about this, why do they need more? They left and created a free site, have involved themselves in the free community, and come over here to post often. I do not understand the need to focus on them so much regarding this...frankly its irritating: you can imagine Atwa and other TSR persons are reading this and laughing at A&G, and thats really not what we want. Aikea (as most of this seems to be directed at her) posted here about this, at GoS, and even other at SimsCave..a guilty person, or one who was intentionally lieing, would not do so. It is not necessary to aim soley on her, when she left TSR and changed her views on many things, and now owns a free site and is involved in file share forums (GoS).

Focus on current FAs rather then exFAs guys, please. In the case of Aikea and Gelydh, they changed and that is something we all understand and appreciate. The focus should not be on them but current FAs/staff, like dear hypocritcal ShinoKCR.


Eh heh. And thats the bigger picture deelink. Well said  :)

Wow. This whole thing is just... Wow.

Did the idiots at TSR serioulsy think that this wouldn't be caught? Did they not realize that this will hurt them more then us? Wow.

About Aikea's part in this whole mess.

Is it possible that she told the truth about not realizing what this was about? That she acctually just did quickly glance at it and then went off to do something else? Aikea posted in the thread about a week after it was started, and from what it looks like Atwat dragged her into it. Her post is on the third page of the thread, is it possible that Atwat just sent her a link to that page, and Aikea replied without reading the OP again?

I agree on that she did have time to think, and she probably should have thought a bit more before she posted, but we all make mistakes don't we? Plus, we all know that T$R rots your brain and makes you unable of thinking. ;)

But, if she really did think "Ugh, boring list of usernames" when she first looked at the OP, I don't think it's that impossible that she just skipped reading the OP again, and just responded to people "stealing" her stuff.


Either way, I hope that there will be some legal action here. Because this is so much more then just hating on pirates.


ETA:

Oh, and to you people who complains about people talking about Aikea instead of the other FA's. Everyone already knows we hate the other FA's. It's no secret. You know it, I know it, they know it, everyone knows it.

The situation with Aikea isn't as clear tho. What she has said doesn't match whats said in those screenshots. I think people are more likely to discuss something which isn't clear, because they want answers. It also makes for a more interesting discussion.


(Erm... I think I might have done something stupid. What does the little button at the bottom right of my post do? You know, the one which looks like a little pen writing on paper? I thought that was the button to edit my post, but apperantly not. If the phorum explodes, my apologies. ;) )

That question was one of 4. That question itself wasn't about the thread at TSR, but it WAS about how I perceived others feelings about Aikea. The answers to all 4 questions, had I gotten answers to the other 2, would all relate to each other- to me only. All in all, the questions all had to do with Aikea. Aikea's participation in that thread was being discussed..
So, even though that question in itself wasn't about the TSR thread, the question was about Aikea. It may not be relevant to you or anyone else, but it is/was to me and the point I was wanting to make.


Aikea wasn't a site owner at the time of that thread was she? Or is it yourself you're talking about? I know you have a freesite. I've been there. I don't get it. I questioned people's attitudes towards Aikea's post in the TSR thread, seeing as I've read how happy people are that she's a freesite owner now, and somehow you took that as "calling you to account"? Well, maybe it was. But, I'm not attacking anyone. I'm human and I'm curious. You're having a freesite doesn't have anything to do with my questions about Aikea. No lube needed. I'm not over-reacting to anything, either.

I think you're being a little optimistic.  No matter if Aikea writes a book here about her exploits on TSR, tons of 12-s will say, "tl;dr" and spout the shit that's been paraphrased.  Don't believe me?  Exhibit A: GoS's "takeover" of Simsecret.  Started with misunderstandings and was "cleared up" but not really.  Ended up with a whole bunch of GoSlings making secrets about us being awesome and others making secrets about "emo geese."  Stupid people still think we "took over" SimSecret even though there are a lot of us with LJs and the number of secrets was dwindling.  Just Saturday someone said that we should make a "gossimsecrets" because they're were three secrets about people from GoS (most of whom had LJs).  An anonymouse also said that we "took over SimSecret."  People still make secrets about A&G being overrated, how their stuff is pretentious, and people fangirling just because they're free.  That's not really going to change much.

They stupidly forgot that a private forum is never private..and with the amount of people who can/could see that thread, it was only a matter of time before it was leaked.


Mmm well TSR have in a way become a victim of what they see us as - 'absolute hatred', as Padre puts it in that thread. TSR grew such a strong hatred for 'pirates' and became blind because of it..they ignored the Paypal terms and went against their own members' trust, whether these members did file share or not. Dug their own grave.

Eta:


Then you should have not posted it here, where it was not very relevant as you just said. If you have a question for Aikea then the best place to ask it, is, you know, to Aikea herself.

Well then I'll answer them all, so that you may glean what you wish.

1) Are there any more posts in that thread that aikea_guinea forgot about?

I don't know. Hence my questions.

2) Is aikea_guinea the only one who posted in that thread who has the guts to come here and talk about it without acting like a 2 year old about it?

Yes, and that's why I asked perfectly acceptable questions - but that's not good enough it seems.  

3) Aren't aikea_guinea's downloads something most everyone here covet?

Not covet, like, and use, and think are great.  

4) Isn't aikea_guinea the same aikea_guinea everyone applauded leaving TSR and being a free site?

Yes.  


Happy she's a free site owner doesn't equal I'll never ask her questions about new information come to light.


And nor does her being free now have anything to do with her actions then.


Not optimistic - realistic.  Without answering the questions, there will be suspicions, secrets and rumours - far more than there would be if she answered without making excuses. I'm disappointed, coconut states they are regretful, I don't see how much more we should secretly want to resolve this, but it seems destined to come up again and again. But as everyone else seems to disagree, I look forward to lurking over this when it comes to fruition and becomes a giant drama bomb at a later date.  

 

I said that? Er..no, don't believe that I did.




Now, THAT I did say. And I said more than that. Leaving out the rest of it doesn't make me look like a noob. Asking that question of Aikea herself wouldn't have made much sense seeing as the question had to do with other's feelings about her. I didn't say the question wasn't relevant- I said that it may not be relevant to anyone other than me. There was a question there I could've asked Aikea in a PM, but I didn't and she answered it. That question is relevant to the discussion seeing as I was wondering if there are any more posts in the TSR thread that she may have forgotten about.

ETA: Calalily, I'm just curious- that's why the posts from me. You're taking offense where none is intended. Before we started quoting each other and replying to those posts, I wasn't pointing at you alone (not doing it now, either) and wanting to know why you're questioning Aikea's motives then or now. Are you the only one who's posted about that? If so, forgive me. I was sure there was more than one person making posts about it. (Believe it or not, it's easy to "ignore" avatars and names when you're reading and reading and reading...)

I messed up the quote tags.  :-\

Yep, I'm the only one who has questioned Aikea to her face since her reply.   Titan (I think) did so a couple of pages before her post, a couple of other people were waiting for her part in it and Snarky had a go at Gelydh for her rudeness. 

For those keeping track, out of the 150 screenshots posted by coconut so far -

The number of posts in which FAs and/or members of TSR management have squeed with delight as subscriber's (including fellow PMBDer's) PayPal information was made public - 150

The number of posts in which FAs and/or members of TSR management have expressed concern about either the legality or morality of posting subscriber's PayPal information - 0

Says it all.

LOL snarky, We should have a few wagers on the remaining posts if/when they come. Other wager sugestions would be

Total number of idiotic posts by shino & kcr
Total number of brainless idiot posts by izazo (sp?) aka the 'village idiot'
Total number of times Atwat quotes bruce willis
Largest number of smilies in one post by Atwat
Total number of posts in which Atwat hints she shagged Thomass
Total arogant bastard gloat posts from Thomass
Total number of FA's suffering with feeling unloved issues (LOL@padre333)

*catches up*

Okay, WoW private servers aren't illegal.  Blizzard doesn't seem to care so much, since most everyone who plays private servers plays retail as well, and its mostly only useful for pvp or rp, since no one ever bothered to script instances and pve encounters properly.

Now, onto the newer posts.  While a bit biting, Aikea's post read to me as 'Why can't they just buy a subscription?' rather than a 'Oh, lookie, more dramaz!'  While it doesn't mention the illegal posting of RL names, it also isn't gleeful either.

I doubt there are more posts and here is why.  Coconut remarks on how surprised they were to see a post, that he or she didn't even remember there being one, but including it because it needed to be.  If she had posted more, than I'm sure it would have been remembered.

And let's see what part three has in store for us.

For what it's worth, I don't give a flying fuck what Aikea said in that thread.  She said it, she's come to hold a different world view, and there has been no proof as of yet she has ever condoned or shared personal information.  End of story. 

I have a memory like a sieve and to expect myself to remember even half of things I've said in the past (when I wasn't thinking about the whole picture and simply reacting) is ludicrous. To expect anyone to have a photographic memory and come here bleating out their sins for the masses to use as canon fodder for personal attacks for ages to come is also ludicrous.

Oh, woe!  I once questioned why people didn't pay for a subscription.  I should be wearing a hair shirt and flagellating myself for the next century with wet noodles and a trout.  Oh, woe!  My eleventy billion apologies aren't good enough.  Now I have to use the approved format and file in sextuplicate!

Honestly.  Someone is very busy sawing away at a sapling in the forest and forgetting about the trees.

Whew...

Let's remember that, things don't always happen the way we envision it. We have the hindsight and the outsider view, and because of that we have the preconceived assumption that whoever posted on that thread is immediately guilty of condoning sharing information. That's it, no gray area. However, wind back a year ago and put yourselves in Aikea's shoes. It's way easy to say "I would have stood up to them" because a) we don't like them in the first place b) ever since then we've been aware of the information sharing and had time to let our opinions mature. However, in the heat of it all, not everyone has that mindset. If we all did, a lot of stupid crap that's going on in the world right now would never happen. Of course, there's a difference between an annoyed message and pointing and laughing at the victims.

Just because A&G have "seen the light", per se, does not mean that they immediately became verified saints. The things they've said and done in the past will come back to haunt them, and it's up to us to understand that they're a) human b) contributors to the Sims community and c) supporters of the pirates
Being aware of that thread and even worse actually posting on it, is wrong, I'll not dispute that. But hey, they've done a lot of things we consider wrong while they were there. Maybe I forgive too easily, but I'm not holding it against them. They've been out there long enough and have been very vocal about their distaste for TSR and what it stands for and, AFAIK, there has been no indication that they have any secret agendas, not like some *other* people who apparently go free but still kiss Thomas' butt *cough*Atwat*cough*

And honestly, I have posted plenty of things without thinking before. If every single Message Board user out there actually measured their words and thought about it before posting, the online world would have a LOT LESS DRAMA.

First off, I want to apologize for the rashness of the post I made last night. It was rude and could have been handled a lot better if I hadn't flown into a fit of rage, and for that I'm sorry.

So, I'm going to attempt to clarify some things with my head clear. If anyone has any questions, whether they've been voiced already or not, both myself and Aikea have no problem answering them in the best way we can.

Yes, we can see that there were 150 posts in that thread and that there was no opposition concerning it (that we're aware of anyway, for all we know, someone may have said something and it could have been deleted; neither I nor Aikea did, but it's possible someone did) speak volumes concerning TSR's manipulation and "brainwashing"? I'd wager a good many FAs, us included, would have opposed the sharing of personal information if it was presented that way. However, it wasn't. It was a list of "The Banned Pirates", therefore, for Aikea and I at least, it wasn't necessary to do more than glance at the list and move on.

Aikea's post in that thread certainly doesn't mean she supported the information sharing; after all, she could have simply clicked a 'new' tag and have been taken directly to Anita's comment, or thereabouts, bypassing the first post completely. So we honestly hadn't seen the actual information more than a handful of times, if that. I think we're both embarrassed that we were naive enough not to connect the list as TSR sharing personal information. A lot of what we said on TSR is mortifying, in retrospect.

We don't think we, or anyone for that matter, should have a 'get out of jail free' card simply for having a free site. I'm not excusing the thread, or Aikea's post, but I'm simply trying to give you our perspective. We simply did not connect that list as the sharing of personal information. Was that stupid of us? Sure it was, and maybe some of you feel that that's hardly an excuse, but that's really all there is to it, as far as our involvement is concerned anyway.

Finally, look, we're trying here. Are you concerned that, since you think we condoned the sharing of personal information, we might turn around and do the same again? If so, I can assure we have no such intentions. I'm not sure how much my assurances are worth, but there you have it. Like I said, if anyone has questions, we want to answer them. That's why we're here, posting. Yes, my being a bitch last night wasn't a good example of that, but it was a rash, hackles raised, defensive response. An uneccessary one at that.

This may be your first comment on the people who posted there. It isn't mine.


So why exactly is it bad to expect an unreserved apology?


But she posted referring to it. Reading and doing nothing is one thing. Posting on topic is another.


Don't you see that apologies with but I " was not thinking" "am free now" "hate TSR" mean little?  I personally think that if the blame wasn't foisted totally in TSR's lap, and  personal responsibility was taken, this would be a lot better to me, and to all those people reading. You can't just say that it's someone else's fault at the time, and I personally would take assurances from someone who didn't try to apologise and make excuses at the same time. Because if you can't say "I fucked up - that was wrong, I was wrong" and need to start putting the blame somewhere else, assurances will never mean anything as there is no confidence that the person making the assurances has any integrity. It's always someone else's fault.

Wonderful, you do know how to count.  Let's all throw a damn party for that, as well as for when someone came down and crowned you Entitlement Queen and gave you the right to demand how others should "apologize" for something, because obviously you are the authority here.  You know, you're a respected member of the community.  Even I respect you.  But right now I sure as hell don't like you, as in this thread, which I read fully before I decided to say anything about anything, makes you look like a spoiled child whining about not getting her way.

She's free now, and decidedly non-bitchy. I don't have the energy to care.

Giving a reason for a mistake is not excusing a mistake, Calalily. How the hell are you supposed to apologize without doing so? Just say "I'm sorry". Please. If Aikea or Gelydh had just done that, you'd say it was insufficient (and I wouldn't blame you).

Your expectations are too damned high. You also seem to be the only one so extremely pissed off. Enjoy your righteous anger.

I imagine Atwa and all are having a lovely time reading all this. They must love the fact that Aikea (and Gelydh) are getting yelled at for what other TSR members were more involved in: A&G caused them butthurt for leaving, now they take the slack for what other TSR members do and those members just sit back and laugh at it all. I lack the want to entertain them any further, so back to the actual topic in hand..will wait until Coconut posts the rest of the thread to see how big a hole TSR staff and FAs have dug for themselves.

Respected? Don't make me laugh. You, and everyone else many posters in this thread have been flinging all kinds of crap at me without reading what I said at all.  If I don't conform you'll all tell me what a bitch I am because I didn't kiss her arse. I didn't demand a damn thing from Aikea, just was actually treating her the way I would treat everyone else in this situation - pointing out that TSR didn't put her fingers to the keyboard. 

Plus, I can just say TSR brainwashing totally made me do it, plus I hate TSR, plus I'm free.  That should work.

Edited because "everyone" is not flinging crap, "many posters in this thread" are. 

 Cala, I think you're too way too harsh. Aikea did something wrong, of her own free will, which she admits.  But she's in a different frame of mind now, and what counts at this point is how she acts going forward. I can't see holding this against her forever. (We forgave her  for her participation in TSR when she left, didn't we?)

And anyway, what do we expect her to do now?  Disappear in a cloud of smoke from the shame of it all?  It's over and done.  And I don't think she owes "us" an apology, she didn't harm "us".  Arguably she participated in harming the people whose personal info was revealed.  But even then she wasn't a major player. If she owes an apology to anyone, it's to that list of people.

ETA: Not necessary to kiss anyone's ass.  But I think it's a good idea to be a little more flexible in your judgments.

Wait..

Who the fuck threw Calalily under the bus?  This reminds me of a secret I read recently... but I digress.
Seriously, whenever the voices get louder I have to go back and read like 8 pages to catch up.. I swear this thread wasn't this long yesterday afternoon...

All Cala did was QUESTION.  Not accuse.  She questioned and wanted an explanation.  Pirates have done this before people.  This shit aint new.  Aikea isn't exempt from being questioned when new bullshit erupts.  But what happens?  Instead of looking at Cala's questioning logically, motherfuckers jumped on Aikea's team with the 'leave her alone' and the 'she's free now' rhetoric.  

Yeah, we ALL have respect for Aikea and Gelyd, that's a given.  They are NOT SHARING OTHER PEOPLES INFORMATION, they have humbled themselves and joined the pirates.  Good for them.

BUT

If calalily, as the true pirate she is, wants to question some shit,  let her question some shit.  She'd do the same thing if ShinoKCR happened to 'see the light' and then a year later gets confronted with some screenies of her partaking in random bullshit.

The last few pages have been convoluted with Calalily defending a pretty legitimate line of questioning and as you can see by Aikea's last response (as well as Gelyd's), all they had to do was continue conversing to reach a consensus.
In other words, they worked it out themselves despite all the flying rum bottles.

I'm going back to lurk, but DAMN, give Calalilly a break it was clarification and explanation that she sought.  Yes we love Aikea and Gely, yes they aren't a part of that shit anymore.  Yes sharing info and cheering the sharing of info is bad.  Yes pot roast with heinz 57 sauce is good shit.  DAMN

No actually, she doesn't. This:


is all about how it's not her fault, it's someone else's fault.


I can't find "demand" in my posts and I can't find "owe" either.  Please quote these posts, as I can't find them, and I'd be happy to apologise for using such words.


Everyone but you and Snarky.  :-*

Just because someone has a free site doesn't mean their actions cannot be questioned.  I may enjoy someone's creations, but I have the right to tell them that I feel his/her action/reaction is fucked up.  While I think Calalily came on a little strong, her questions were valid.

Unfortunately for Calalily (and really, everyone else),  I think Aikea has already responded to the questions the best that she can and the results are unsatisfactory.  By her answers, I feel she's just trying to push that behind her instead of taking some time and introspecting on her actions that led her here.  I can't fault her for feeling that way, but by doing so, it remains unresolved.

I'm reminded of Enron and how many people were left with nothing (their pensions gone and their stock worthless) because of the higher ups that failed them.  The resulting court case against the higher ups lasted years and they were asked a lot of questions on wtf happened and why did they do what they did.

So, this isn't going away.  Not by a long shot.  Go brew some tea and go for a walk.  It will be ongoing when you return.

If Aikea just steps in here and answers one little question we can all be happy little hippie pirates again.

Also, we all know that if she realised 100% what the thread was about and that it was illegal to share name+email, she sure as hell would have remembered something like this. Knowing that, she would have dug her own grave if she purposefully hid the truth, because Coconut woud have just posted what really happened.
But it will be nice to have some clarification, and not just 'well dude, I'm free now'. It's not impossible that she did know, but at the moment I think it's unlikely.

If she did know the legalities and just forgot afterwards: what are we going to do to a convert that's not supporting this kind of action anymore?
If she did know the legalities, did remember what she posted, etc, she would be kind of ... braindamaged. lol

This is odd... I actually can see everyone's POV in this thread. 

All I can add though, is that TSR is a strange place and the further "inside" you get, the stranger it gets.  The only way I know how to put it is that there is a cunning stupidity going on in the place.   Once they "notice" you, they start poking at you to find out what you're made of and if they can convert you or not.  If you start posting in the forums, they start really noticing you.  They befriend you, and soon it's not just about having a home for your creations, it's having a home for you and your Sim addiction.  Since the forums are heavily monitored and censored to only reflect the "true" feelings of TSR, it starts becoming too easy to get sucked in.  After all, there are people who share your love of creating, you've made some friends, you get too comfortable.  Then, if they think you're good enough, they "invite" you to be an FA.  By this point, you're in the swing with them, they've  been your friend through thick and thin, you're one of the crowd.  That's when they start really twisting your mind into their mindset and start wanting you to actively "join" their holy war.  Up until then, no one really asks you to take sides, it's just assumed you're on their side, and it's difficult to express that you're still undecided, because remember, the boards are censored and of course no one at TSR is going to allow a mature, rational, discussion on whether or not paysites are legal. 

I say stupid cunning because TSR does pull some absolute bonehead moves.  But, the dance of the conversion is one they do amazingly well. 

No, I'm not saying everyone who goes there will get sucked in.  There are folks out there who can keep themselves away from the brainwashing.  However, I got sucked in, I admit it, and usually I'm someone who doesn't just go along with the crowd.  I know there are others here who found themselves joining into the dance without even realizing it.  Like it or not, TSR is a huge presence in the Sim community and it's way too easy to find and way too easy to join in.

I'm not saying this to defend or accuse Aikea.  As I said at the beginning, I can see all sides of this.  The only thing that has me confused though, is what folks want from her now.  Since she can't change the past, and we don't know what the future holds, I don't know what is being asked of her.  She's explained her POV.  She can't do much more.   

Aikea a damned good creator with a huge fan base and she's left TSR.  That has to be a "victory" for PMBD, and a blow to TSR, no matter what she did while she was at TSR. To me, that's the most important thing.   But again, I do see the point of others here too.  There is nothing that says everyone must forgive and forget.   There are a lot of folks on that thread that I liked, admired, and thought were good people.  If any of them ever came over here and said they'd seen the light, I'd still be upset.  I'd still question what they'd done, and there is at least one of them that would never be able to earn my respect again.    Just because someone has changed, doesn't mean that everyone has to forgive and forget. 

Okay, possibly I missed it, but what exactly is the one question that hasn't been answered? Calalily, I went through and read your posts and didn't see any of your questions; statements, replies, yes, but no questions. Granted, I could have missed something entirely.

I didn't perhaps make myself completely clear, so it boils down to this one simple line:

Does she not bear the responsibility for posting in that thread, or is it all someone else's (be that Atwat specifically or TSR generally) fault?

OFF TOPIC:
Soggyfox: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=DA543F51E1FA7779B8AA0AF4CE406E93?topicId=4913973005&sid=1

ON TOPIC:
I agree with Calalily. I'd say more but I have to run to class.

Then they don't enforce it any more than EA does theirs.  I've even seen private servers advertised on the wow official forums.

To kinda agree with BlackDwarf sometimes you don't particularly question a process that you think is the norm, even when it's happening to you or around you, even if it should register that it may infact be unlawful. 

When I was banned from several sites years ago in the land of TS1, back when there were only about 20 other fileshares at the SFV, I knew it was the result of my information being shared.  I knew because the owner of Savage Sims went so far to say it was on his forum.  My name, My IP, my emails, my username were shared with a handful of sites (TSR, Simfreaks, WDS, Simbellas ...may have been more but I don't even remember), and publicly offered to other paysites who may have wanted it.  Heck there was even a BlackBook forum on ezboard you could get onto if you were a creator with a paysite to access all this information gathered on the likes of myself and others.  That was also public knowledge.  Many people knew of it and not a damn person criticized them at all for it.  Everyone shrugged it off as a just something that was the norm for the time, and that was thousands of sim players. 

Those things have all but been forgotten.  Even more recent events, like Lyric & Rose sharing information still is a shocker to some and from what I hear even being censored by others.   I guess what I am trying to say is, maybe it's not even particularly relevant at this point in the discussion, but what's salient information to one person and worthy of memory retention is not necessarily to another no matter how important others think it is.   

Cala wrote:  " I can't find "demand" in my posts and I can't find "owe" either.  Please quote these posts, as I can't find them, and I'd be happy to apologise for using such words."

Cala, I never used the word "demand".  I did say "owe", which I presumed is what you meant when you wrote:

"So why exactly is it bad to expect an unreserved apology?"

Sorry if I misunderstood you,

Calalily, I'm not sure how you've gotten the impression that I don't take full responsibility for things I've said/posted in the past in any thread, but that's just not the case.  I've said it over and over again that I do, with and without explanation.  I can't help but feel there's some sort of gigantic misunderstanding happening here.  

Just so everyone knows, coconut has contacted me and said that I do indeed have a second and final post in the thread.  S/he's even sent me a screencap of said comment, which is post #396, from late January of this year.  I'm not sure if s/he would rather I allow him/her to post the comment at the appropriate time or I'd just post it outright, but I stand by my (many times now stated) taking responsibility for things I've posted.

Great! So, now that we've cleared that up.....

Does anyone know what happens to a site who violates Paypal's TOU?  Heard any stories about possible repurcussions?
What if TSR were to lose it's account with Paypal?  *gasp*  ;D

TSR is also really good at arguing their point.  The only time I was able to discuss it with anyone, their basis of argument was that EA/Maxis knew what they were doing and even encouraged them (encouraging meaning that they invited them to all events and advertised the site on theirs)  so, if they didn't care, why should other folks?  And, I have to admit, I saw that POV at the time.   If EA didn't care if folks charged, then why should it matter?  The EULA I saw as just a way for EA to cover their butts so folks didn't steal the game, repackage it, and claim it to be theirs.  

I only began to question if pay sites were wrong when I realized it was hurting the community.    


Okay, that is totally wrong.  However, was there really much good in offering your IP?  Even if they were giving out your IP address, wasn't it all pretty much just dial up then, so the IP address would change on a regular basis?  As for your real name and the other stuff, that's horrible.  


I'm shocked.  No, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I wasn't around at the time.  Yes, I played Sims 1, but I never created and I never really tried to reach out to the community.  I downloaded my stuff, played my game, and kept to myself.   But I'm just having trouble grasping that someone didn't think it was wrong to share personal information on anyone, no matter what the purpose.  

Sorry - Phelim said demand, not you. 

Expect does not equal owe.  I expected that she would just say sorry and leave it at that - I never said she owed anything to me.


I'm happy that you do indeed take full responsibility for your actions. Despite the bullshit said about me in this thread, that is all I thought you needed to say.  Now that I know that, I'd be willing to go to the mat in an argument, providing that second screenshot doesn't show you actually posting names and emails.


Well as soon as I stated that you had responsibility, for the last twelve hours, I've had all kinds of people posting vitriol at me for daring to suggest it. Most of the last five pages of the thread is that vitriol and my responses, rather than anything en pointe about you. 

I felt that posting all those explanations was a way of deflecting blame, rather than accepting it.

*kicks bus* I never threw anyone under the damn thing... Anyhow, this was quite something to log in and see. I respect and like A&G for the work they've done since they've gone free. I respect and like Cala for the brain that never sleeps and for what she does for the community. Everyone bears responsibility for what they've said or done in the past, even if they don't remember it. Even while brainwashed, a person has to take the responsibility for what they've done. It also has to be taken into account that people have recanted the beliefs they held while under the thumb of a fascist regime, which is basically what TSR is...

The thing is; you accept the past and apologize to those that were damaged and try to go forward as best you can. You try to ignore the ones howling for your blood when you've already paid for what has happened. You try to make amends for what's gone before and make sure that it never happens again. And you walk with your head held high and never let anyone put you in that place again.

Cala has made good points here, as have other people in this whole thread. No one in this life gets a get out of jail free card, it doesn't work like that. Everyone is accountable for their actions and will have to answer for them some day. But, once they've answered and the penalty has been paid, be it an apology or what have you, then the time of punishment is over and should not continue afterwards.

I respect all of you in this forum that have made valid points and asked any kind of question. I have tried to read it all and comprehend it all. (Weary brain doesn't always take in what is written.) What is boils down to is this: The information we've gotten has inflamed us and is causing us to want to nail TSR to the wall and dry the hide for some kind of use. That is where we need to take action, against them. Yes, A&G were a part of that culture for a time, and yes, they are responsible for what was done. If any apologies are needed, they ought to be proffered. But, once that is done, the issue of their culpability should be laid to rest. And no, frying them if further shit comes to light is not fair. It's like double jeopardy, being tried for the same thing twice. Let's not do that.

How many of us here once had a subscription to a paysite (not used for sharing here)? I'm raising my own hand, and I'm sure many of you also are.

How many of us here once said something against people who might be filesharing before they knew about this site? Again, I'm raising my own hand.

How many of us here publicly stated that they thought paysite owners deserved to be paid for their work? Hmm...my hand's still up. I suspect quite a few others are.

My point? The paysite mentality brainwashes. It's near a cult, really, and TSR is the cultiest of them all. All of us who ever paid for a subscription or a donation file to a paysite aided the breaking of the EULA. All of us who did are guilty. I don't see us persecuting each other. I don't see us asking each other to be held accountable for paying for a year of TSR. I don't see us asking each other to explain, and then try harder when that explanation doesn't meet our standards.

Aikea made one post in one thread over a year ago. She forgot about it. Do you remember each and every post you've ever made? The thread was alluded to and she then remembered seeing it. Then it's posted and hey...she made one two-three sentence remark in it. OMG She's an evil liar! OMG she needs to apologize now! She needs to explain herself! Get over it. It was over a year ago. She didn't share the names, and she was caught up in mob mentality. She currently has a freesite and she is active in the free community. This isn't about not being accountable. This is about not having much of anything to be accountable for. She didn't post the names. She didn't cry for more blood. She said people should just get subscriptions already. Doi. Standard TSR brainwashing that everyone, including the lowly members, was fed and parroted at every opportunity.


Or, if that doesn't work for you, I must need to apologize as well. I apologize for being a paid member at TSR. I apologize for playing some of their challenges and encouraging Steve to create user content beyond the standard CC. I apologize for posting a few walls and houses there, as apparently it was an unconscious decision on my part to lure unsuspecting kiddies to the site. I apologize for contributing to their forums, as my help on game issues might have discouraged them from going to other sites...other sites where they could have learned about PMBD...for help. I am an awful person, and I should be punished. Please use the fuzzy handcuffs. It's cold in here.

Please! I didn't say one word - not one single solitary word about remembering - I didn't even have a go the first time round when this was brought up. I didn't say one word about whether she saw it, why she didn't tell us.  I didn't even have a go as soon as I saw it - I wanted to give her a chance to say what she wanted to say about it.  How the fuck is that possibly not as fair as it can get? But that's not good enough apparently. I'm the lowest of the low for questioning her inconsistencies.  ::)

I just got this from my sister whos after reading all the posts I have been sending her, sent a lil mail off to T$R this is her question and the reply she got.


QUESTION
I would like to voice my concern about renewing my membership at TSR. There is a lot of talk and very convincing screen shots of our privacy being invaded and Shared. Also that trojans are being placed in files. I for one am too scared to download anything from TSR anymore. No I dont share files and never have and have been a TSR member for a long time. What can be done to belay my concerns is any of this true? It is definatley very convincing. You have my credit card number is this safe? Is any of my private information safe???

REPLY

Hello,


There has always been a lot of talk about TSR in certain parts of our community and most of this talk is just plain wrong or twisted to suit the latest speculation. Your information is safe, we don't give out your personal details.
We don't place Trojans in our files, whoever told you this is knowingly or unknowingly lying.
We don't store credit card numbers, we don't handle such infomration at all. This is taken care of by either PayPal or Bibit (our payment processor) we don't even relay this information.


If you refer to the forum post screenshots and read what it says, you will notice it states the username, and in some cases the real name (info taken from our member database, not Paypal) of people we have caught filesharing our subscriber files. Those are people acting illegally and now banned from our website. Please notice also that this information is posted in a private forum, only accessible by TSR staff and Featured Artists - the people who have a right to know who's stealing from us. What's ironic is that those people posting the screenshots are the ones spreading those names outside of this private forum.


To bottom line is, your privacy is safe with us. We take privacy very seriously and would never jeopardize the trust of our users. If you are caught stealing our files we let our staff know who you are.


I hope this answers your questions, please let me know if you have any further questions.


Regards,
TSR Support


My final word on this email, *sneezes* achooo bullshit.... ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!! and dont knock my sisters question she on purpose tried to sound as dumb as possible
and wont be renewing her membership. They may even ban her unsubscribed account for me posting this here,
 but she doesnt care, shes now a converted pirate.

Zazazu i'm sorry but that was the lamest comparison ever.  Using your OWN analogy, Shino, Atwa and whoever the hell else in that thread who wore cheerleading outfits with a big TSR on the front are just brainwashed little cult members who know not what they do and therefore should be exonerated for their wrongdoing.

Save it.

And no... I didn't raise my hand to any of that shit.  I've never paid for shit except the base game, a few stuff packs and all EPs.  Why?  Well .. thats in the FAQ here.  I've never believed in paying for CC since day one dude.

The Aikea shit was resolved a few posts above yours man.  The REAL topic is Sharing personal information lest we forget.  

ETA

And thank you Ebony for the segue LOL

So that's the excuse they're going to give once paypal comes knocking huh?  Interesting..

Yup thats their lame excuse I am sure they have it all worked out, funny thing is on sign up you dont give your real name
that info can only be obtained from paypal or other means...*smirks*

Nope I had cable so it was static, though I do think at the time, many were still on dial-up so it probably didn't matter for them.  My parents were late to the internets, so they went with what was best at the time, which was the now defunct adelphia service.  


Maybe some people thought it, I dunno, certainly no one said anything that could be interpreted as remotely critical or you were banned and your post was deleted.  I can't imagine TSR is much different now.  People knew about these sites, I am sure Ry remembers them if she is around this thread.  They were closed forums on Ezboard and I first ran into the links at N99.  Blackbook, I don't remember who started that one and later on Bella started one called - and I can't believe I remember this - "As the worm turns"  more specifically geared toward members at the SFV, but again generally as a place do exactly what was being done here.   Paysite owners simply weren't ashamed to hide that they did this sort of thing, it was considered expected if you were caught sharing.  

I think the only difference now are there are a few places, and people, like here that aren't willing to lie down and accept this crap.  Still I wonder how many places are really like this.  I mean as far as I heard Reflex deleted the post that called out Lyric for doing the same exact thing - hopefully most of us remember that incident since it doesn't predate TS2.  How much have things really changed?   

Edit: cause apparently I am dyslexic

The actions of Shino are not the same as the actions of Aikea. There's drinking the koolaid and then there's passing it out. As for Atwa, we all know she was stirring the cyanide in after it being handed to her by Thomass.

Was that a better analogy? Or will nothing work for you, since you apparently have no clue as to how it is for active members over at TSR per below:

Yeah, I wrote my post before that. Oopsies. I'm happy the major players are now fine.

I don't drink kool aid, so therefore, no.  I don't know how it is for active cult members.  As a matter of fact, i'm quite happy I don't know what it's like to be Atwa, or Shino or Suzy... Why the hell would I want to know what it's like to sniff Tommy boy's asscrack everyday?  I have no desire my friend.

My whole point is this... Calalily was justified and didn't deserve to be thrown under the bus, run over by the bus, have the bus put in reverse and then rolled over again.  She's got more street cred around here than that.



ETA...
Okay .. last year I did drink some kool aid.. but it was only because there was no more cranberry juice to mix with my vodka..

Cala, I for one did not throw you under the bus. If all you wanted to do, was hold Aikea to her comments and through her own admission. I am sorry I didn't understand you. I thought you wanted her to explain herself on why she wrote her comments, and I was like, wtf man? You can't do that because who on earth remembers every single piece of motivation that goes on a post? However, having read everything in more detail, I understand now:  Accountability is treated like evidence, so I understand why you wanted a statement.

*takes a deep breath* I don't know how old Aikea is, but frankly everyone matures and comes to realisations every day they are alive on this earth. Aikea said, hey, sometimes you join a clique and find yourself saying things you don't really mean. To the point you forget you said them in the first place. Does that sound a little blase? Sure. However, I think you were a bit to quick to cleave them on that point. I don't blame you for the misunderstandings, I just think you have a very brusque way of interrogating. Not that there is anything wrong with that :D In fact it's why I like you. You took out your cleaver and questioned. Unfortunately a lot of people just saw the cleaver :D
(How's that for a shit analogy? Fucking full of em I am!)

Cala, you're a brave pirate, that's a fact. You have your evidence, and I am glad we have sorted this out. The last thing we need is catching wind that Atwat is licking the screen at this latest development, considering how much she hates both A and G.

Just for the record, I would like to not be lumped with everyone throwing Cala under the bus. I would rather find another form of pleasure torture.  :-*

Honestly I don't think the enemy is Aikea. It's TSR. We are letting Aikea's booboo get in the way of TSR's. She fucked up, and admitted it. I waited for her to say so, and she did. I'm happy. I would rather now focus on TSR and Thomas handing out names like it was candy on Halloween. Hell for all we know they probably are sharing more than just names on their super sekrit forum.

Besides, who hasn't done something in their past they regret? I know I have. Aikea was probably just feeding into the warm fuzzies TSR pretends to hand out. Let's just foxus on TSR and sharing personal information.

When you know better, You do better.  I think there are many in our community that have demnostrated this and I believe Aikea is one of them.  I know there are many others that can claim to resemble that statement.  Now, I have fresh baked cookies (peanut butter chip) and recently chilled rum enhanced lemonade to go with them.  Anyone want to join me?

Speaking for myself, apology accepted.

In regards to Ebonys' sisters' (...former roommates best friends ex-mother-in-law) email the TSR reply went from assuring it's customer in the most soothing voice it could muster to flat out accusing, if not threatening, in the span of a whole sentence.

If a salesperson at a store said that or even if your phone service provider said that I doubt the response from sheeple customers would be so benign.

Am I supposed to be insulted confused or complimented??!!??  I am wondering where the witty part is???

Edit: I am also wondering what the so called sheeple reply was, do you know what my sister replied with?
and if so you must be a T$R spy because I didnt post her reply.

No no! I was just commenting on how TSR seems to contradict themselves almost every 5 words, and still marveling that they're still in business despite the lack of anything that resembles 'business-like' behavior (though this is not new, everyone knows this). I just used your post because the email response caught my eye. And because I'm made of fail and I don't know how to do the quotes.

The witty? There was no witty. Unless you mean my name. It's just a placeholder for something extremely clever and witty, like all the cool kids have, feel free to think of whatever you want to replace it with in your head. (this is why I lurk, clearly I must lurk moar

Edit: (I have a feeling the modify button is my new best friend, along with the foot in my mouth) I didn't say anything about your sister's reply. Only what you posted on the page before us. I was talking about TSR's reply to her.

Tis Ok Im just in high defence mode. Is being a Pirate bitch today sorry. Your right about the email back,
it was all sweet to start then very threatening and acusing. They just lost themselves another customer
and for every customer they loose by word of mouth ten more follow. And any way if T$R really want another
knife in the back we got two for the price of one my sister and I have always shared the account. She is in the bottom end of Aussie
and im way up the top end.. So eat that Thomarse!! Hope you choke on it.

You didn't have your foot in your mouth.  I understood your initial post just fine. 

People in this thread are oddly touchy and defensive about anything with their name in it today.. did no one go for a walk?  >:(

ETA:  Have some cookies!

(http://i35.tinypic.com/o7kaiv.jpg)

I got on the elliptical.  Endorphins rule.

I went for a walk it didnt help, everyone diving all over everyone else today has made me defensive and angry it feels like
decention in the ranks arnt we all supposed to support each other here. We all want the same thing Paysites gone and our
private information safe! *kicks herself in the butt for being a bitch* Rum any one??? Consider it a peace offering.

Hee! Same here. Thirty minutes and then legs and ass after that. I pretty much flew home.

Cookies! *nomnomnom**falls over into sugar coma* Oops, shouldn't eat teh cookiez.

Allright! Cookies ftw! They taste much better than shoes. They're also much better than kicking yourself. *adds more cookies and rum for all* Sorry I have no pic for that.

Adults have responsibility for their actions, even when they belong to a "cult". When people change and own up to responsibility for their actions, then they are acting in a mature and responsible way and...

COOKIES!

I just came from a 4-hour seminar, my brain is tired, and I'm glad to see everything seems to have been sorted out between swashbucklers. Now how do we go about scuttling TSR for good? I can't see Paypal being happy with their behavior.

Since we're all mature pirates, I'd like to apologize. I totally misunderstood Calalily's intentions with her post, and when it was clarified that all she wanted was for Aikea to own up to what she did, man did I feel stupid. If that's the case, it was never my intention to throw her under the bus at all.

Now, on to more pleasant subjects... anyone in for some pirate cookies?

(http://www.thenibble.com/marketplace/draft-1/images/pirates_page115.jpg)

*snaffles up a handful a cookies* not in the mood to count calories today.

Ok as for the how to do we bring down T$R i have some thoughts on that.
But is prob better discussed in private where there are no leaks with the right people.

Only one thing I can say in here is to get the word out about the booty where ever you are
put the addy in your sig make a post on your site whatever it takes. If each and every loyal and real pirate
did just that I think the numbers of members would go through the roof.

Just and idea of many but what does an Aussie sheila know any way * laughts at self before someone else does*

pssst - Cala's an aussie too, iirc.  ;)

Hey I'm Aussie too! Arr!!  :D

Coconut has updated his/her LiveJournal (http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/08/) with the screencap of my second and final comment to the thread (which I mentioned previously), as well as TSR's internal reaction to the happenings of the last couple of days.

I just came to post that.

Also to say that I'm not throwing Cala under the bus in favor of A&G; I like you both.  :)

Until I can see it in context, I'm afraid it isn't all that incriminating.  And should we go back to ripping each other's throats out and providing them with a misleading diversion?

Awwww, they call Pescado "Pesky". How cute  ::)

So, these TSR idiots seem to think that filesharers are doing their thing at the behest of someone in power. I think maybe they're projecting. They can't believe that people can actually use their own minds to decide what is right, and choose to do something that may cause themselves a little (very little) pain, to stop something that's wrong. Most filesharers are just doing it to help other people, anyway; I don't think they care about the paysite issue. But helping other people with no tangible reward is incomprehensible to these TSR morons.

Exactly one of them has an avatar that I don't find ugly, by the way :P. Why does Chaz want to look like a drag queen? Also, I don't understand Atwa's use of smiley faces. Many of them seem to be non sequiters. Finally, the thread is actually quite dull. It's the same thing over and over and over. No analysis, no disagreement, just a circle jerk, really. I admit, I don't see how this kind of boring dumbness could possibly suck anyone in, in a cultish way.

Wow... in all honesty, reading the majority of the drama-inducing "super secret personal info swapping" thread made me feel a little ill.  I'm not as surprised about it, since I've read the accusations last year about it, but to see the hard proof and the people who took thrill in the bannings and posting of people's info over lousy pixels being shared (even with proper credits, and no matter how little the info is shared)  is just purely repulsive.  No wonder some other gaming communities see the Sims 2 online community as a joke.  We have so many nuts around that take the whole experience,  try to make it more of a hierarchy of fools who think they have the God-given right to sell virtual content for a game they never participated in making, and (attempt to) silence all who don't agree with them.  I'm probably going to blow my thinly-veiled cover for saying this, as I do say this a lot of the time when things about the Sims get to serious, but these people really need to get off of their high horses... The Sims 2 is just a friggin' game!  They should have more to worry about than people sharing game content files that they believe should be "purchased"... but then again, as a true testament to what I've followed up in the comical and intriguing "Atwat" saga and others like it, I must be expecting a little too much from these people, right?  Anytime they think that posting someone's full name and e-mail equates to making up for their content being shared with everyone else, there's a definite logic problem...

Of course, I'm not saying anything new.  It's just something I'll never get about people like those at TSR and other paysites with the same mentality.  They just enjoy making a game more exclusive and petty than what it's supposed to be, and as much as I love the Sims, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Unfortunately, people like Tom and his crew will keep on, never admitting that they're wrong for pulling this sort of crap, and will always point the blaming finger in the other direction.  Greed never ceases to amaze me.   :-\

Hey, does anyone have screencaps or evidence of this:
Definite giggle-fodder.  ;D

I don't think you got my analogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-aid#.22Drinking_the_Kool-Aid.22). Come on! I was baiting you!

I wasn't trying to throw Calily under any moving vehicles. I got that she had a point, I just considered the issue asked and answered and didn't understand the continued vehemence.


(On a side-note, this happened only 8 days before my birth. If it's gotten to the point that people aren't recognizing the reference, I must really be getting old.)

Zaz, I was 11 when it happened, and wouldn't even think of touching kool-aid for a long time after, too.

Did you know there is a neo-psychedelic band that gets part of their name from that?  Brian Jonestown Massacre....Brian Jones I think is from the Rolling Stones, they were playing with words.

My vote is that we throw the whole crew currently at TSR under the bus and watch them squish. Greed is their downfall. That and arrogance. They are the fools if they think we're gonna stay divided. That's one great thing about the great ship that is the PMBD site, we're free to argue, debate and get things cleared up. We hash it out, we apologize with rum, and we move the fuck on. How many of them can say that, or have they forgotten the many accounts of the infamous Atwat? Squirming yet, you little worms of paysite excrement? You should be, for what you do is wrong. EA says, "thou shalt not profit from the sweat of our balls," and yet there you are, raking it in as fast as you can. Twats.

Thank you so much for making me think of EA's balls, Paden. :P

Hey, no problem, neriana! We all need a proper gross out now and then... I think I need some Kool-Aid now. I remember that happening, can't remember how old I was but I do remember my dad telling me to be careful of religious fanatics like that and never, ever to listen to someone like those poor people did.

What a lovely mental image to go to bed on....O.o

Just imagine them in the bonfire of the unofficial video, that should wipe the nasty from your head. Good thing the insomnia is visiting this week, I'll pass out fast once properly wiped out tired. (We need a cross-eyed smiley, you know?)

Oh gawd! That one's going to the PMDB book. Right next to "What has been read cannot be unread"

ETA: I didn't want to double post, but I HAD to comment on this
Un-freaking-believable.

LMAO There crap is better than days of our Lives.....*gets popcorn and picks more cosy chair*
Just cus im in hospital flat on my back ..i can bretend ya know!
Any one wanna share popcorn while reading the latest saga from the ohh NOT so secret thred??

I just saw that!  I wanted to smack something.  Why shouldn't they concern themselves with the quality of their product?  Do they not take any pride at all in their 'work' or is it all "quick, Photoskin that and get it uploaded, so I have more time to count my moniez"?

That was a rhetorical question. ;)

I REALLY should be in bed right now... Oh what the heck. Have some rum and Coke  ;D

Sure explains a lot, doesn't it?

Are they seriously that dumb? Someone please tell me that people cannot be that ignorant, and uneducated! I love how they choose to quote an entirely different part of the EULA and see it as "If EA has no responsibility, why should we?" bullshit. Hell that's probably why so many peoples computers are broken because of their shoddy files. It's probably why some of DOTS objects crash games, but do they care? No. You write them a comment explaining the situation and it gets fucking deleted. They don't want the sheeples to think TSR will hurt them in any way.

I hope this opens a lot of peoples eyes, and I hope that everyone will do their best to from now on spread this information to keep people from signing up at TSR. Hell I would even go for creating a website so that when people google TSR they also pull up our website with the dirty information about TSR. Bunch of dirty swindling pigs if you ask me. Everyone last one of those creator's I have lost respect for and wouldn't even consider them a human being at this point. They are just blood thirsty animals, begging for Thomas to shove his meat down their throat. They sicken me.

Yeah, I love selective EULA reading.

Yes.
Oh, they're definitely human. Only humans can be so stupid.

*barfs*

Most of you totally threw me under the bus. And those that didn't say anything watched it fucking happen, which is just as bad. Even TSR noticed:


I bet it does. My sincere thanks to those who didn't just sit watching with glee at the public teardown, but actually said something in favour of reading my actual posts. And for those of you that did teardown, if I wouldn't let Aikea off with shucking responsibility, do you think I'm going to act like the bile you poured out at me was not your fault? Don't even fucking bother with "oh I totally didn't throw you under the bus - I just didn't understand".


Apparently not.  I would have more street cred if I'd had a paysite before, really. And that's what totally fucking sucks about this. For the most part, I was the bad guy for asking if responsibility was accepted.


Apology accepted.  :)


ORLY?


You said the nastiest stuff of all, coming back hours after to stick the boot in with this crap - after I replied and failed to read what I or anyone else said.  You so obviously can't predict how I react - for Aikea I was feeling disappointed, but this shit above - pissed off beyond belief.

If you feel that I'm in that number, either tossing you under, or letting it happen, I'm sincerely sorry, becasue it wasn't my intention.  As I said in my post earlier, I could see all sides of the situation.  I do see where Aikea is coming from, but I also saw your POV.   You still had some issues with this, and you had every right to bring them up.  As I said before, just because someone changes doesn't mean everyone is obligated to immedietly forgive and forget.   And in all honesty, there are people on that thread that if they came here confessing to have seen the light, I'd be ripping into them like a rabid wolverine.  I don't think Aikea was the worst of the lot, not by far, but still, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to have concerns. 



TSR is very good at finding victory for themselves.  Much like the Egyptians, when they write their history, you'll never see their defeat, you'll only see the "victories" getting smaller and smaller.  This is not to say you weren't being jumped on, you were.   In some ways, Aikea was too and it did get vicious.  However, even if it had all been a very civil discussion, TSR still would have said that we were all fighting.  In fact, that's one of the things TSR does to twist your head into thinking they're right.  "See? We all get along like milk and honey, while all they do over in that nasty place, is fight, fight, fight!" 

Well, it's awful hard to have a different opinion at TSR.  They just don't allow it.

.
I don't know if you consider me a tosser or not, but again, if my post sounded as if I were, I am very sorry about that, it was not my intention. 



It shouldn't be that way, but I think there is a bit of the prodigal son going on around here.   I always despised that parable, but it does seem to happen in real life.  You have someone who's always been there, always been around, always been great, and they get overlooked.  Meanwhile, when someone who was on the wrong side comes over to your side, some fawning takes place.  It's wrong, but it's human nature to  a lot of folks.





I did not read your posts as carefully as I should have, because  I really didn't see what you wanted from Aikea, to me it looked like you were just comming down on her.  For that I was wrong.  If I wasn't willing to carefully read your posts and reread until I did understand what you were saying, I should have just kept my mouth shut.    I do still understand where both you and Aikea were coming from, but you clearly paid a higher price for being honest and questioning rather than just accepting than you should have.  Especially in a forum that prides itself for allowing folks to have their own opinions, even if their opinions are not "popular." 

I know I'm still sorta a new kid on the block, but if it's worth anything, you have amazing "Forum cred" with me.  You're one of the people that helped me see the real truth about paysites.  Not what "side" I should be on with this, but what the truth really is.   


EDIT: Because it's a "rabid" wolverine, not a "rabbit" wolverine.

Calalily, I already apologised to you in PM and that was a genuine apology. I think we (everyone) fucked up in this thread, and fights came out of misunderstandings. If you still feel miffed, then I'll suggest group pirate hugs...ech.  ;) A lot of people have apologised so far so I hope it is all ok now



And then, has anyone else seen the News bulletin this morning? Like Coconut says, he tries to play it down (and blame us/pirates/'naysayers')


Trying to deny it, and blame gossip, is stupid when there are screenshots which show the proof  ::)

I didnt throw any one under a bus and wouldnt I have respect for all of you that I have met so far
Especially you Calalily your input and help with the dog & Sac incident was wonderful. As you can see from
earlier posts I turned into a Bitch myself and hated how everyone was treating each other and said
so.

So shall we all get back on track and work on getting T$R shut down for its violation of our privacy
and its theiving evil ways of the paysite twats. We allready know we have them riled up and pissed
i think its time to strike while the irons hot.

Edit: as you can see from the above post Thomarse is getting really worried and so he should
he clearlly states in that that they get names and emails exactly the information he has been sharin
from paypal ect.g
I think he has just shot himself in the foot some one needs to get a screen shot of that!

This is time when we really need to majorly fllood the community with posts and addys in sig tags to the posts
and images and this site so they can see for themselves.

More awareness I would say. Subscribers should know exactly what TSR does with their private information, and that TSR have no moral issues with sharing said information. 

Was that a threat?

Screenshot is here http://i37.tinypic.com/2q02dg9.png  :)

And yes, as per usual its a badly written post and shoots himself in the foot many times. Particularly the line Sherrie just pointed out - making lame jokes about sharing info with spammers is hardly appropriate  ::)

Cala, I hope you got my email.  :-*

For the benefit of anyone particularly TSR who thinks nothing bad comes of sharing personal info either willingly or someone doing it for you.

German Man Arrested Over Gamer Murder
A 21-year-old German man arrested by police in relation to the murder of a British internet gaming enthusiast in Nottingham is to face extradition proceedings.

Twenty-year-old Matthew Pyke was found dead in his flat above the Orange Tree pub on North Sherwood Street last Friday.

Mr Pyke, who ran his own online chat forum dedicated to the Nintendo computer strategy game 'Advanced Wars', had been stabbed.

A 21-year-old man from Limburg was arrested in Hunfelden on Wednesday by West-Hessen Police.

It is understood Joanna Witton, 20, the man's girlfriend, found his body in the flat they shared. There were no signs of a break-in, so police believe he may have known his killer.

Nottingham Police yesterday confirmed they had arrested a man in Germany over the killing and a link with the internet was one of several lines of inquiry being pursued.

A spokeswoman for Nottingham Police said: "The suspect is going to Frankfurt for the start of extradition proceedings.

"We are questioning him with German police."

In a statement released through Nottinghamshire Police on Thursday, a spokesman for the German force said: "Limburg-Weilburg police have arrested a 21-year-old man from the rural district of Limburg on suspicion of murder.

"He was arrested by officers from the West-Hessen police headquarters in Hunfelden on suspicion that on 19 September he killed a man in Nottingham with a knife.

"They got to know each other through the internet.

"The man has been extensively interviewed by Limburg CID at the petition of the public prosecutor."

Mr Pyke, originally from Stowmarket in Suffolk, was about to start a degree in Nottingham Trent University. He had been living in the city for two years.

Don't you just wish it was only Spammers who like getting their hands on personal information

Holy. Fucking. Snarkbag.

I bet Thomass and the whole crew wouldnt even care if someone got indirectly killed because of them.

 >:(

I think this was slightly what I was worried about..  :-\ Hard discussions like this always result in some kind of damage.. it's hard, we treasure the people we do get back from the dark side (Iced Mango, for example) and we worry about them knowing we love them.. Cala, I know you know I don't feel that way.. after we talked I got exactly what you were talking about...

The big thing would be after a decent enough period to let things heal up a bit, we refocus on the main enemies in this whole thing, TSR.. just imho..

if you look at it in a TSR mentality what this post says is " We are now blaming the people posting this information for anyone on the list we made being spammed to hell.  Right Thomas get spamming"

If it was the day before their subs were due? yes he would care,
If it was the day after they paid? not so much,
If it was a non subscriber or ex subsciber? not at all

ETA: Hey and chance someone could edit this thread to include TSR as well as habitat in the thread title? Just so anyone googling after reading TSRs anouncement can find it easily  ;D

Not only should others be wary, the likes of Toma$$ should take head from that gamer death - what would he do if someone within his beloved minion, brain-washed grooup crowd was to be harrassed, attacked etc by someone who found out their details and was getting revenge for something? He could loose all his money makers and where would that leave him?

I hope someone scares him a little because of this and he re-thinks his position!

It didn't end there.  The german guy got the girlfriend's email address and proceeded to email her apologising for any "inconvenience" he had caused her.

Cala, my intention was not to throw you under the bus with my  comments.  I'm sorry if you felt as if I did, you are one of the people I admire most around here because you're willing to speak out for what you believe in.  Let's not lose sight of the real enemy here.

Coconut, this is an eye opener to be sure.  I'm stunned by their crassness.  Amazing what people will say when they think their comments are private. ::)

Inconvenience?! :o

Erm, christ, sorry I'm just a little gobsmacked...

I just hope that the example for TSR makes them see what they did goes beyond sharing pixels, fake hurt, and Thomas cashing in.  They need to step outside their forum and secret squirrel gatherings and see what happens in the big bad world outside when laws and rules to keep people safe are ignored. They should be made accountable to every one on that list, but they will continue to live in their denial covered bubble and post stupid random posts on how much money you are saving  subscribing to them because of recession, and don't believe hard evidence just believe what we say.  They seem to have great faith in their brainwashing abilities. I only hope their subscribers let them know otherwise.

I am not going to take responsibility for what happened in this thread, even though I did watch most of it without commenting.  First off, most of this occurred while I was at work, and while I can glance at snippets, I certainly cannot post from there.  My students would be all pissy about that.   What I read was a heated debate a la MATY, although it became clear that you considered many posts personal attacks and I can see why.  We don't do things here the same way as MATY.  Second, I wasn't that clear as to what you exactly wanted either until you posted your question.  You even stated you probably weren't clear.  I couldn't post that I didn't get it, and even if I could have posted my confusion, it might have been construed as another personal attack and that is not something I would have wanted to happen.  Once I got home, I was too damn tired to deal with all the drama, and it looked like it was over.   Things got heated so quickly I was almost afraid of adding any fuel to the fire no matter how I crafted a reply.   Which is why I posted a quickie after 9 pm my time and then I went to bed.  Once question was posted and answered, it did look like things were mostly understood and cleared up, until I started reading this morning.  Third, you are a grown woman who can defend herself as well as anyone I have ever seen.  You are not a defenseless person who needs someone to come to their rescue.  I respect you too much to think that you need a great defender.  This last part is actually a bit tricky as defending someone can backfire and make the situation even worse, as we have all seen.  On the other hand, at least you would have known someone was in your corner.  I really don't know what to say about that type of situation. 

If you want to think I am "just as bad" then so be it.  If I am next on the hit list around here, so be that too. 

*gets out basil*

Brunchetta time!!!


Seriously man, I don't do hugs. But I tip my hats off to everyone who admitted they were wrong, and made clarification easier.  :-*

I'm sorry too, I was just trying to diffuse things, or staying quiet to avoid from making it worse.  I didn't want to see anyone upset, I never do.  Other people being upset affects me, as a reiki practitioner.

On a complete aside, while I didn't link the name, I did link the avie, even with the differences.  Simtomatic is the one who made those kitchens over at MTS2.  And then after I'd done recolours, whent and changed them around completely so my recolours were crap.  Probably not intentional, but as neat looking as they were, not worth redoing or even to continue using.  I can only imagine his/her stuff has only gone down hill in quality since becoming an FA - and such nasty little comments in that thread.

Since I didn't understand what you wanted from Aikea, what people were arguing about and what Kool-aid had to do with anything, I didn't post in this thread. When I interfere with things I don't understand, they tend to get worse. I think I made the right decision and I'm not going to apologize for that.

tomato said it better.

Seriously, without a doubt, the toughest part of all of this for me has been watching as the greediest, most morally corrupt group of assholes in the entire sims community crowd together and crow over their imagined victories. All while breaking any number of laws themselves. Seeing people like padre333, as he initially feigns reluctance before whipping out the pompoms and becoming one of the biggest cheerleaders of the "hunt", or atwat, as she pathetically attempts to find happiness in the misery of others, has been like watching bad soap opera villains chew up the scenery. As for thomass, I'm now convinced there is just nothing inside of him that will ever be of any benefit to anyone other than himself (His selfishness - let him rot in it).

But fuck all of them.

Right now, I'd like to offer my appreciation and sympathy to all those people who put their necks on the line and wound up as fodder for that creepy bunch of pixel-whores. I know it took a lot of courage for you folks to take that risk and your effort has been greatly appreciated. Though many of the names on that list I don't recognize, there are some that I do and seeing you on there was startling. I've even crossed swords with one or two of you (PMBD-Style!) but, regardless, I just want all of you to know how humbled and awed I am by your bravery and generosity. And coconut - thank you as well.

Hm... I wonder if anyone on that list has been the victim of identity theft.

Seeing the actual posts makes me even more glad that I am no longer over there.  We (SA's) had no idea that this was going on.  I think we knew bannings were happening, but not the sharing of information.  I know that I would have said something, or at least I hope I would have.  I am saddened that some of the FA's that participated are people that I had contact with and actually kind of liked.  Spaik is one.  I always really liked her.  I am feeling really stupid at the moment for liking any of them.   I do note the absences of some, however.  At least until part IV comes out. 

I don't think Simtomatic was ever a spy, though, even though she has gone back to TSR.  I think (and maybe I am being gullible) that she got disillusioned at Natural Sims because she migrated over there during the shake-up.  I would assume a spy would last longer than she did. 

Mmm I have an idea: perhaps have a set thread for dumping the dirt on TSR? Just so that its all in the same place, and people can refer to it more easily. Currently we have the information scattered all over the place, and we change topics in threads quite often which does make it hard to follow if you are looking for something in particular. So would be an archive of their bad deeds, so the news on the information sharing, Atwa drama, Aikea&Gelydh leaving, etc are all in the same place. Would make for easier referencing - so when we link outside sites to information, its easier for them to read. Just a thought  :)

Edited because I garbled my post badly, bleh. Hope that makes more sense now ;)

For Cala:   :-*
Took me forever to catch up on this thread.
I still stand by an earlier statement I made...I'm just a *nasty pirate* but even so, if I'd have seen people sharing actual personal information anywhere, I would have outed them ASAP. It's bullshit. No matter whether someone participated or not, anyone who saw the thread knew it wasn't right and should have spoken up then and there. No ifs ands or buts about it.
And if anyone who did see it and is now against it doesn't atleast say hey, I was wrong and I'm sorry. You're right and I should have done something...well, then, they obviously still don't care much that the info was shared.
One more  :-* for Cala. She rocks my world and I'm sorry I wasn't around to drag her from under the bus some people felt it right to throw under here.

 I like this idea and we did have a "TSR is a sucky-assed website" thread where it was mostly ontopic.  However, the great and powerful Pes doesn't like it when threads get too long and he locked it down. I am assuming he would not like a metaTSR thread because that would be probably 300 pages.

Maybe its own section?  While we're against all paysites, it seems TSR really is our main opponent right now.  Concentrate our efforts on one at a time might do more good than spreading ourselves all over the place.  Once they go down, can move onto the next big culprit, and just change the section name as we go along.

You felt you needed more from AG than I though she needed to give or that in so many words hadn't already said.  I simply disagreed, though I did try my best to stay out of it either way.  I have done it many times, in many other forums, and it's not misconstrued as throwing someone under the bus.  "Throwing someone under the bus" was a term a member used here, and that cocunut pulled to describe the drama here but frankly I think it the idea is BS.  There was nothing different than what goes on in any other thread where heated arguments occur.  

People were agreeing with you, and people were disagreeing with you.  People were siding with AG, and some people wanted more like yourself.  While all this was happening, focus was lost on the main issue - information was being shared at TSR.   That's what Thomas is happy about - that Cala and AG took the focus off his ass and probably still that they are.  

ETA:  Like SoggyFox I am all to ready to get this thread back to TSR.

  

I didn't notice specifics (got lost in the general tone), which is why it seemed like you were beating a dead horse and screaming at it to try harder. So yeah, I went into momma-bear mode. I'm a total bitch when I get protective. You're one of the last people I'd want to do that to. Was I meaner than I should have been? Uh...yeah. Did I miss your acceptance before my second post? Yeah. It may seem like it was several hours to you, but I was catching up on the last few pages at once and must have missed what you said. I don't sit in these forums all day. I generally am catching up on day-old or even three-day-old news, and I generally try to keep my mouth shut when I do so. I already said I screwed that up.  Actually, I think the post you quoted of mine was before that, but then I did my little joking "we all suck and I apologize" after you'd accepted. Or something.

'Tever. I was overly bitchy and I shouldn't have been, for which I apologize. You've had what question you wanted answered from Aikea answered and are satisfied. Pretty much everyone is okay with each other. Kool-aid references as a self-mocking dig at an earlier question of analogy choice whizzed over heads. Grr TSR.

Of all the discussions this one brings it home.  Thankyou

Yeah uh.. FYI?... The kool aid reference didn't "whiz" over my head ... I got it  ;D :D

Reading coconuts latests post made me realize a few things.

1.  While both sides get nasty (and admit it, pirates can be pretty nasty), we somehow know where to draw the line.  I remember back when coconut posted about some of Thomas's personal problems many members here saw that as a line we didn't cross.  And they said so.  And now that Atwa's free, her creations are off-limits for mocking here (though her behavior still isn't).  That's what's so digusting about that thread so far for me.  Not one post suggesting it might be wrong to put personal information on the web or to put "trojans" in downloads.

2.  All "families" have their disagreeaments.  Its how those disagreements are resolved that speak to how healthy that "family" is.  I found it disturbing how they talk about making people SA's "to control them" or "removing" people they don't like.  That is unhealthy to the exteme.  And it just goes to show how bullshit TSR's happy, sunny facade really is.  I'm sure TSR enjoyed the debate that occured here, viewing it as a "victory" and evidence that PMDB is just going to rip itself apart.  What they failed to see was that it was a DEBATE, with a little miscommunication thrown in to make it rather heated.  Neither Calalily nor Aikea at any point pulled a "you're awful, I hate you, go away" on each other.  They kept their communication open until they came too a point where both were satisfied.  I don't know about the FA forums other than that thread, but it seems to me this NEVER happens at TSR.

3.  They seem so desperate to get rid of PMBD, but the funny thing is it would be so simple.  All they would have to do is go free.  As A&G prove, go free and your files are removed.  If the FA's are truly concerned about their artistic integrity and truly their biggest gripe is that they don't want other distributing their work (ie, its not about the money), then make your stuff free.  It will get removed from the booty.  You don't even have to leave TSR--just go free, become an SA or whatever.  Go free and create to your hearts content, knowing that the majority of the community won't distribute your files without your permission.  And if people do, that many of the "pirates" here would be on your side as most of us respect a creators TOU when they are a free creator.

I believe she was apologizing and you're still being an ass?  ::)

They are only desperate to be rid of PMBD so they can make more money, which would be a hard feat if they set all their items free. 

I took the "ass" out.. My bad.

Jojoba, that's a brilliant idea! Just what we need.


Exactly! perfect post.  although when they go down, I don't think the others would be a problem somehow  ;D

Like tomato said, we did have a 'sucky ass tsr sucks ass bad and then some' thread, but it got too long and had to be locked. maybe if we had certain spam free threads in there, they wouldn't get as long so fast. We all love to spam, and I'm as guilty as the next, but sometimes it can obscure important info when people keep clicking on a new post and find its just 20 pages on the price of tuna (example) Then when an important post does come along like OMG TSR just sold their database to Crims R Us, we miss it because we stopped clicking new posts 12 pages ago!  I know we would get trolls trying to bait us into spamming out the important stuff (which is why they post) but could we move there posts to a troll bin, where we can beat them up and have some fun without spamming out the stuff they want us to?

As for the fighting, I can tell you for sure, this is what TSR wants. Jojoba hit the nail on the head there. When I was at TSR they loved it when you guys fought, even just a small tiff would have atwat in raptures, and of course Thomass loves the much welcome diversion. He would much rather see Calalily or Aikea take the rap in this thread rather than TSR. Aikea may or may not be classed or want to be classed as a pirate, but in TSR's eyes she most certainly is. a pirate to them is anyone who posts here without a troll badge.

Hell people this is paysites must be destroyed, lets destroy some!

Ok you can stone me now  :(

But if you read the thread as its being posted, alot of those people are -denying- the spyvirus.  A watermark doesn't carry the same sting as a virus or trojan or whatever.  It might do the same thing, but it doesn't sound the same, and if you don't want to see the filth of their actions, for whatever reason, its not too hard to over look it.

Not being an apologist, though I'm sure it sounds that way.  I'm just pointing out another way of seeing the situation.  Look closely, most of them are denying it exists as a trojan, and likely most of them are clueless as to what their precious watermark is.  Just like many people are still ignorant about what Securom is.

Sherrie I swear man.. you're a friggin genius.  No stones coming from me.

You also have to understand that not everyone was online at the time to take up for you, so I know that since I was sleeping then had to work in the morning I missed all of it, and would not like to be considered one for those people who sat back and said nothing. Not everyone can live on PMBD 100 percent of the time. *Tomato said it better than I could have ever said!*  :)


They are right, they aren't in all the files. But I'm guessing they are in every last subscriber file.

Didn't see this elsewhere; my apologies if I'm duplicating something in a more appropriate thread.

TSR "addresses" the info-sharing issue.  http://www.thesimsresource.com/news.php?ID=2789

I've asked a perfectly legitimate question, but I'm not expecting any reply.

So the lesson, folks is that some people are still more worthy of excuses than others - the community hasn't changed that much as Sherry points out.


You did. I considered that resolved.  :-*


Fair enough.

And to deelink, sherrie, Missbonbon, Redikolous, BlackDwarf, EbonyRye and Ry - fair enough. We're good.


 :-* I should have made myself clear - just genuinely angry. I was not referring to everyone who read it, but some posters watched it unfold, and when it was determined that I did not "lose" they came out with their no buses here routine.  If they want to be cowards, they're welcome to it - but don't come out and pat yourself (referring to those posters) on the back after it's all over and they've decided there's no personal danger of being on the "wrong side".


Except for the nasty things said about me, sure.  If it was solely disagreement - however heated - I would not have been angry.


Apology accepted. :)


Well, I don't know that that would be successful at all, it will inevitably end up the same as all the others.  But we could make an effort to change the Re: bit in the top of our posts, so that they can be seen from the front page and clicked on, enticing people in. Such as I have (which no one has to stick to my rename protocol).

Did everyone miss this?


How much money do you want to bet it's from shutterstock vs. google-possible-copyright-violations?

He's still claiming it wasn't a big deal. I just wonder how he'd feel is it were his full name, e-mail, user-name, and IP number being spread around the internet.
From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, the IP's can usually be used to get information on where the person lives.
With that number and a real name, you can easily call information or look up an address or phone number.
So if that stuff is spread and someone decides poking on the internet isn't good enough, who's to stop them from calling or going to a persons home to take it up that way?
It's stupid and the more Thomas tries to get himself out of this mess, the worse he looks.
WTG Thomas, keep destroying your own website. Less for the pirates to do, eh?

I screened his reply to you, it's only a matter of time before they delete both the question and the reply and return to total denial mode.


http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stevereplyzv8.jpg

You can in fact find a lot of information on someone with very little information to go on - I used to help a roomie find people for her work at a lawfirm.  I'd never publish any of it and I've forgotten what I found, but it wasn't -that- hard.

He said there were only 5 names that were given out.  Even though ONE name is one too many, I swear I counted a hell of a lot more than just five names.

I count 14 including birdshit and sillys 2, and there's still more of the thread we've not seen yet

He's so flipping stupid!  In one sentence he goes on explaining how it's not a big deal because this information was only available in a private forum with 'trusted' members, and in the next he acknowledges that his judgment of at least one member of that forum was wrong, but passes it off as a disgruntled FA out for revenge.  Yeah, see the problem is you don't know everyone who has that information as well as you think hun?  His complete lack of concern and/or inability to put two and two together is disgusting.  

The 'discussion' could have taken place without using others real names.  It was wrong, anyway you slice it.  As much as I am sickened by the FA's response to Thomas adding real names, it was Thomas who made them available - he is at fault for sharing private information, no excuses in the world about the amount and conditions in which it was shared will ever change that.    

I went ahead and posted a link to Coconut's live journal on the site for the station I DJ for, for City of Heros.  I -know- there are other simmers there, and some of them are my friends and I'd like to keep them from getting scammed by TSR

I don't care what idiots think of me, how happy or sad they are over what I do, etc. Their opinions simply do not matter one way or another. If we change ourselves because we perceive them to be happy over our healthy arguments, they win. TSR is obviously filled with people who think if you disagree with them, you are the enemy. Like all idiots, they operate under the delusion that everyone else is like them. That's their problem, not ours.

I count eleven different names in Toma$$'s beginning red posts. He repeated some of them, probably to make the list look longer than it really was. He knows Atwa, evi et al wouldn't bother to read anyway.

 :-* I am very glad!

And regarding the TSR Dirt Thread suggestion..




All valid points Cal, Paleo, Sherrie, and Reyn. Mm if you are interested in this I would voice these options: #1 public thread were all information is posted and we comment on it. Advantages are that we get to discuss it there in the thread where the information is, but disadvantages are that it can go off topic and attract trolls to derail it.

#2 a locked thread as a sticky, where only mods/staff can add information, or links to information. Advantages are that it will not go off topic, get trolled, can be regularly updated by informed persons, and the information is very easy to grab and the thread would not get too long (so Pescado can not grumble), but disadvantages are that no one else can post in that thread regarding the issues as its locked.

#3 SoggyFox's idea of having a new section purely for information. Advantages would be that the information would be easy to find as it should all be in that section and would therefore be very good for referencing/sourcing, however disadvantages would be that threads could go off topic, come under troll attacks and the rest of it...or there were very strong rules about not going off topic (which I think we've already decided a long time ago that pirates do not like rules  :P).  And that this would mean asking and getting Pescado to do so: and the fish only swims when he wants to, so...heh

This is all just a suggestion, so wham and slam it if you want to  ;)

No surprise there. Considering that coconut has exposed their true personalities for the entire simming world to see, and also what lengths they'd go to to continue leeching of the sims community, all they can do now is lie about it. And in true TSR fashion, they can't even do that convincingly.

Desperate scammers are desperate.

Locked thread FTW! We can have links all saved, like with the FAQ.

cool, I really like the idea of#2, we can still post in 'normal' threads, but and least one thread would be there to preserve the informations and safe from trolls.

Locked works as well.  I just think that having everything put together is an awesome idea.  Would mean someone would have to have the ability to go in and add new data as it crops up, but that's easy enough to do.

My response on TSR - lets see how long it lasts:
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i244/dhaissa/th_tsr-1.jpg) (http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i244/dhaissa/tsr-1.jpg)

 (clickable)

***Edited. Size matters.****

I can't read that - too small.

Love your sig.  :D

Apparently it whizzed over others.


Zillah, this was awesome:
I have it screenshotted, but at work, just in case. EDIT: And none too slowly, as both Zillah and damama's comments are now gone, though sloppy Thomas replied to them and left his replies up. Obvious censoring.


This is what I understand as well. Also, repeat my early comment about people having unique names and being easily found via free services like Zabasearch.

It gets bigger when you rub click it.

Ok then, looks like people like #2 - that was Ash's idea btw, not mine  :D Will look into setting up a locked sticky with news/gossip updates in it!


That makes me entirely rethink the use of the word 'soggy' in your username.   :-X

 :D It did when I clicked it now - not the first time - came up as 320xwhatever.  :-\

Oh - poor Thomass - how to infer PMBD without mentioning it.  :D

Which is odd, since soggy fox comes from rain fox which are the two elements I get Reyn from [ is long story ], so I tend to just think in that way :)

Cala, if I threw you under the bus, I do sincerely apologize to you for that. If I didn't jump in and roar for people to knock it off, I apologize for that as well. Thing is, when I've done it in the past, no one has paid a damn bit of attention to it and just kept right on. My first instinct was to do just that, because I understood what you were saying. I had to squash that instinct down because honestly, I didn't think you'd appreciate my help, being as not a whole lot of people think that I can do much other than bitch and rant. But this isn't about me, it's about you and the treatment that you got, which was shitty. I apologize for that from the bottom of my heart.

And TSR, you need to grow the fuck up and smell the stink that you surround yourselves with. Sharing any information of a user is immoral and most likely illegal. It was more than five names, it was eleven. One would think that being as you love to count your monies so much, that you'd know how to tally up that list of names your dear Tommy-poo shared around with people. One of those people is about as stable as a house of cards during an earthquake and you obviously have known that for some time, yet you still kept her where she could see sensitive data.

You are deluded if you think we're going to let you sweep this shit under the rug. We aren't. People have been defrauded by you and yours. You had no right to keep any funds from a subscription that you canceled, and you had no right to publish any personal data. What part of, "you were wrong," don't you understand, you silly asshole? EA said it themselves: File sharing good, file selling bad. And that is exactly what you do, you sell files. You break the EULA. You have no right to tell me that if I buy something from you (won't ever happen because the shit over there sucks hyena balls), that I cannot give it to the person/people of my choice. Once money has changed hands, I OWN it, twit.

Or would you tell me that you can't do what you want with an ugly sweater that you bought for your birthday? Hey, it's yours now. It's ugly as hell. You wouldn't be seen dead in it. Why not give it to a homeless person? Are you trying to tell me that the store would haul your ass in, give out your credit card data to other stores because, OMG, you gave away something that you paid for and you had no right to do that even though YOU paid for it?! Thing is, dipshit, stores can legally sell merchandise to customers because they have a little thing like a business license, and agreement with the supplier to sell their products and tax obligations. Do you have any of that? Nope.

I say "nope" because if you were authorized by EA Games to sell their package files, you'd not have to post the disclaimer on your site. You still have that disclaimer, so you aren't authorized to sell a damn thing. Get over yourself and go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.

Reposted with addendum :
I would have a lot more respect for TSR if they would admit they made a poor decision,
apologise and ensure that this sort of thing never happens again, rather than trying to justify their actions, blame it on
others or delete any comments that challenge their stance. Im very dissapointed in this sort of unprofessional behaviour."

being deleted in 5....4.....3.....

Comments now gone. I missed a few and was in the process of writing something. Going back didn't work. Anyone catch Steve's final hoorah?

Predictable Thomass is predictable

Comments are already inaccessible.  I didn't even get to read yours Zillah.  :-\


I was frothing at the mouth about that - it's one thing to be a coward, but to come in and pat yourself on the back afterwards is something else entirely.  You waited to pick sides so you would come out on the "right side", and don't think I don't know that. No amount of arsekissing can hide it.

Well, here was my contribution which I screenshotted before it got deleted
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/serenamoonsilver/tsrpost.jpg)

The one I found that was funny and sad was the sheeple who said something along the lines of "I haven't seen these screenshots anyone is talking about and I don't want too."  Talk about keeping your head in the sand.

If we see any more sheep who haven't seen the screen shots, it's simple, we PM them the links  ;D

I will, assuming I don't get banned here shortly.

So the moral of the story is that you can totally F*up and then simply delete all responses that try to hold you accountable for your actions.   I think it's pretty clear where this is heading.  I doubt that any response will be allowed at all soon - locked due to some lame TSR forum rule.  The one in which members aren't allowed to question why you are doing something illegal or a complete d-bag.  They are trying to sweep it under the rug as quickly as possible just like everything else.  I hope we can do everything possible to keep that from happening. 

Yeah, but they forgot why they started it.  They can delete all they like - that doesn't mean people will trust them again.

"They were caught stealing from our website"

No they bloody well weren't. They were "caught" paying you money (which you illegally demand) and sharing what they paid for with other people. How does he look at himself in the mirror every day? Lying asshole.

You can froth and foam all you want, I wanted to have all of the facts before I went diving into something. I've jumped in before without knowing everything there was to know and gotten my ass ripped for it. So this time, I pause to read everything that had transpired after I had gone to bed and digest everything in my head and I get attacked for it? Bullshit. I didn't wait to pick any fucking side to make sure I'd come out on top, I'm not that kind of person. I wanted to know what had been said and expressed. For once, I chose to try and use reason and logic before I say a damn thing and you want to rip my throat out for it. Fine. Whatever. For the record, I do respect your stance and your asking for further clarification. That isn't asskissing, it's plain fact.

I'm not you, I can't take arguments apart the way you can. I react with my gut. The one time I try to make an informed point and get all of the facts right, it turns out that I'm just a fucking bitch in your eyes because of it. Fine. Have fun. Rip all you goddamn want. You aren't the only one pissed right now, but that doesn't matter. You have your outrage and fury. You take it out on me, go for it. If I fucked up, I admit it and apologize for it. But I'm not the spineless twat you want to claim me to be. No matter what I do, it's never going to be right in your opinion. If I stick up for someone in the heat of things, it's derided and called unneeded. If I don't wade right in, then I'm a coward. What ever.

Exactly. I guess under the same premise, I can't share this bag of Halloween reese's peanut butter cups. I can't haz Reese's banning me from sharing dis candy!

On an aside, TSR is so full of unprofessionalism. The idea of "the customer's always right" somehow missed their correspondence business course. FAIL! :o Not to mention the grammar and spelling errors....

So don't come in and pat yourself on the fucking back for not throwing me under the bus.  You waited to see how you could be on the winning side.


That would be thieving - plus, you better put your crap in a ziplock too - can't have anyone have even a tiny bit. :D 

I think it's more like those tiny tubes of toothpaste you get from the dentist, that say 'not for resale' on them.  It's like TSR collected a bunch of them, and then resold them. 

I hope my friends don't mind me quoting them in this thread, but they both said awesome things [ its a much less active forum than here, it takes longer for responses ]

First quote

Second quote

So, the word is getting out there to more and more people - even with this bloody thunderstorm :P

Good. We need to make sure as many people know about this as humanly possible.

And it's always been in Thomass's style that whenever someone questions TSR, their methods, or the devil himself to delete any comments that aren't "Thomass I want your bod!" He is a chicken shit coward. Hell that's probably why he would send fucking trolls over here instead of coming over for himself. He knows he would get ripped a new one, and he knows that no matter how much "fluffy" made-up shit they have it would go down in flames.

Hell I think that this should be posted on any if not all sims 2 fansites that believe that TSR is dirty. We need to get this out as much as possible. The more uneducated get educated the more they are likely to make the best choice for them.

And I love how they say "supposedly loyal" member. Everyday I'm beginning to think they are more and more like a cult.

I'm sure this has *probably* come up before, but:

-The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. -Certainly among some of them.

-Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. - Dissenting threads/comments deleted, lies told to cover things up and try to smooth things over.

-Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). - Probably not, unless we count exposure to certain creators' idea of textures. 

‪-The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). - As far as I'm *aware* Thomas isn't dictating marriage partners quite yet...

‪-The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). - Yes, as evidenced by some of the self-righteous comments posted and the attitude towards filesharers.   

‪-The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. - Duh.

‪-The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). - EULA?  Wassat?  PayPal guidelines?  Sod 'em!

-The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). - Trojans, spyware, PayPal info sharing.. leaving retired/departed FA stuff up still as pay and not releasing it unless hounded to, for some. 

‪-The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. - Yes, as I think aikea mentioned earlier in the thread, as have other ex-FA's?

-Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. - Maybe?

-The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. - Yes. 

-The group is preoccupied with making money. - Hell yes.

-Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. - Quantity, not quality.

-Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. - No links to MTS2, etc.

-The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. - Yes, sort of, from what I can recall of Aikea and Geldyh's comments.   

... I know cults are a serious thing IRL, but it is interesting to go through and tick them off.  Obviously the order of magnitude is less than a real cult, but the basic parallels are there.. you can probably think of other examples since I don't follow everything very closely.  This specific checklist was yanked from here (http://"http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm"); there are other versions around on the internet that you can find easily enough.  It was just one of the first to come up on a Google search.  My laziness, let me show you it. 

Very interesting, coralleane. TSR is definitely cultish.

Oh now people agree with me...

http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/09/ (http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/09/)

Coconut is preparing for today's screenies right now.

And because an edit is no good if you miss it, I'm sorry you were missed first time round.

I <3 coconut.  Oh, to be a fly on the wall in FA forums right now...they must be going crazy.

Btw, coconut's latest updates talk about netseeker2, who posted her story a while back here (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,1312.0.html).  It's a teal deer, but when I skimmed back through it I remember finding it very plausible.

I can't believe I'm sitting here, with tea and rum, updating a page over and over, but I am enjoying it muchly.

I never, ever post anywhere, unless it's a contest on another forum (which I've since given up) ... or whenever I call LyricLee out for a duel at sunrise. It's a hobby. My hatred of her goes back quite a way. I've been a member here a long time, from the first, I think. So, hi. I am one of few words, I simply lurk and chortle.

They (in coconut's page) are currently speaking about DrP.  Surely I'm not the only one to remember that, just about this time, he began putting a statement in his upload posts that he did not do the models?

I certainly remember his first car uploads; sims walked through the backend of them, causing all sorts of errors; pretty to look at, unable to play. I know he left TSR for his own site, so please don't howl at me, but I don't believe Netseeker is speaking wrongly. TSR FA-ss kissers are sugar coating, as we all know they are wont to do.

Just for the record, my name is on that TSR list. I am not pleased. I'm currently in ongoing conversation with PayPal; I have someone else in contact with EA (don't hold your breath on *that* one, though. What complete assholes they are!). PayPal, at least, looks just a tad bit promising at this point. If we can strip TSR of that avenue, they lose a hella lot.

Edited to add: Okay, I lost respect for DrP. He's a dipshit like the rest of them.

Thank you for finding that littlemisspirate - I was about to go look for it myself.


I'm sorry you were on that list.  They were damn wrong for doing that.  Hope that PayPal gets them.  :)

My pleasure, Hecubus.  I read more carefully and now I'm playing with the idea of seeing if I can find some of the 3D models FAs are importing - and, more importantly, check out their ToAs.   ;D


My sympathies, Henbane.  I know you have a messy, uphill battle still ahead, but you've got my thanks for taking this fight to Paypal and calling those bastards out.

Thanks, guys. You've no idea. I eventually began a spreadsheet tree of whom to which I've spoken, their names (if they deigned to give them), their supervisor's names, all phone numbers and what each has said.

It would be exhausting if it wasn't so damn freakin' fun.

I dunno, I think if you take away all the "we're sharing your private informations" crap, I personally think they are all kinda boring.   It's like no one has a personality there, everyone's so eager to agree with the last poster, and kiss everyone else ass, it's completely redundant and predictable.   Even their inner TSR 'drama' is making me yawn.  

Further, I don't know how Coconut can stand to do captions for Atwa's posts, I can barely finish skimming them without wanting to bash my brain in.  

It's very much like the town of Stepford over there at TSR isnt it? ThomASS & Steve are the head of the mens association & all the FA's were killed off when promoted to FA status & replaced with bot look-a-likes LOL

GAH! I can barely get through a post in that thread, it makes my head hurt. Disregarding ESL (and most of them speak better English than I do), where is the grammar, the punctuation, the spelling? It's like sitting through grade school again as a teacher. JFC, I want to scream and flail.

Speaking English here, why would I want a set of objects from someone who can't write basic grammar and has absolutely no grasp of punctuation or sentence structure? We'll discuss spelling later.

If they speak like a hillbilly, chances are their "art" is shit.

ETA: I mean no offense to anyone here. I live in bayou country myself. I was merely speaking of those "elite" and oh-so-well-educated TSR folk. Truly, they all need to get back to school.

My brain is needs bleach.  I just came across an old floppy and thought thomas.

Heh, it's Calalily. Not Hecubus. It doesn't bother me, except, well. Welcoming gratitude, you're doing it wrong :P

 :D  I wanted to make believe I lived in New York for a while. :P

I'm also sitting here refreshing that page ;D Coconuts comments are the most ammusing thing on there.

I have to admit I was pretty worried when this thread came up the other day, I once paid those bastards (I wont call it a donation, since it never was) for a few months. IIRC it was around the time that thread was being posted in. I certaintly shared everything I had with my friends, At that point in time I really had no opinion either way in the free/pay debate. Sure I paid, but I shared too :D
Thankfully my name isn't on there. Unfortunately, some of you guys are >:(
I hope paypal is being cooperative with everyone who has contacted them. I'm sure Tomass and Co are denying everything whenever paypal contacts them. But if enough people send in a complaint from this end, paypal will have to (hopefully) take it seriously, and make a decision that someone is lying, and it's not the complainers.

I'm trying to catch up on this thread and on the posts and I'm sad.  I never knew Dr. P was a schmuck.  I mean, as long as I can remember, he's been an SA there anyway, just wasn't expecting him to be a complete moron.

I didn't know JFade was a SA at TSR.

http://i36.tinypic.com/141ti15.jpg

Atwat has the tendency..to add a series of pauses..to most her posts..instead of actual periods..because periods would signify the end of a sentence..and that would give one to much hope..that her boring drivel is coming to an end..rather than a brief pause..to be be followed by more incomprehensible BS. 

Well, if we didn't know before we certainly do now, Thomass can't count. How is it that only 5 user names were posted, and it is a 15-1 victory? I can't wait until he explains that one... ::)

He'll lie explain like so:  '"15 users were caught, only one had their name shared."

After reading I think they are giving us way too much credit for what we did with their files.  We asked members not to post pictures, and then just had them change the date/time modified on the odd file in the set.  If they were doing more to files at the time they were doing it poorly because I shared several files in this manner, and so did others and none of it resulted in banning. 

 They had to give tons of credit to the pirates. They had/have such an advanced system of protecting the files they upload, we would have to be geniuses to solve their puzzle. Otherwise they would have to admit to being dumb fucks and just put a watermark on their pictures.

I don't know what his position at TSR was.  That's the FA forum though.

I try to ignore that fact.

He's a MOD on the TSR forums, so I guess he would have access to everything.

So, in other words, not just the FA's have access to the FA forum?
All of the moderators do as well?

Here's an (old) quote about jafade's position in TSR


So yeah, he's a mod, and does not get paid for being a mod. I'm curious though, as to what did he post that made Tommy boy delete it...

Off-topic: I got quite a scare when I went to get the quote from that old thread. The reply box had "Necromancy is Bad, MMkay?" in big bold red letters and a picture of a demon(?), warning me that the message was over 30 days old. I never knew we had that  ;D. Besides the initial surprise, I think it's a nice feature.

 Of course they do. Thomass is going to be very busy writing out hurried explanations for all of this today. He should have just waited until EVERYTHING came out and then said something. Apparently he is also suffering amnesia over this thread.  ::)