PMBD

Ahoy, PMBD. It's a red sky tonight, and we all know what that means.

It's about f**king time I found this site. I've been looking since the original Sims 2 was released. I'm safe to say I've helped myself to a fair amount of the booty, and I intend to plund-- er, contribute some when I have the money.

I completely agree with your cause. Making people pay for services that are required to be free by legal contract is, well, ILLEGAL.
More on legal ways to get money for content later.

I want TSR to be SHUT DOWN. 100%. They are ridiculous. I am close friends with another artist on TSR. He liked his items being free. Eventually, he became a featured artist, and as a result, all of his contributions became pay items. He then seceded from TSR. Asking for donations is one thing, requiring donations for mass downloads is another; but charging money for items the CREATOR designates as FREE is a VIOLATION of ethics, and occasionally law, when a Creative Commons license is used.
I know you guys can't do that, and I'm not asking you to. I'm just saying, they suck scurvy.
As for the artists residing at TSR; The good ones are already on free sites, the others I could care less about. It's a f**king game, not a swap meet.

Now, here's a groovy idea for fair pay for fair content: Comissions!
Now, suppose SimmerBuyer wants SimmerCreator to make something for him. SimmerCreator would then create a price for the creation of that content, and upon completion, SimmerBuyer pays for it. This is legal. He's not paying for the content, but the WORKMANSHIP that goes into the content. In turn, SimmerBuyer could then release the item into the community, for free of course, because the content is his; the creating process has already been paid for. Now, why didn't TSR think of that? Instead of receiving money from members for content, the could extract a monthly fee from the creators, and in exchange, they get a massive community and customer base in which they can set up shop. Content is exchanged freely. Everybody wins!

Common sense is something that's very rare nowadays, but I'll be damned if it deserts me.
Also, I hope this is the right place to post. I read the faq, and I'm sharing an idea, not a question. Seems all right to me.

Yours, Overwatch.
Arr.


Not reading the post before replying=phail. I stated I read the faq at the very bottom.
And I'm now removing my sig, It looked smaller before I posted, thanks for telling me!

You idjit. Paying for content at all is bad. o.o Before you post >.< Please, gah, know what we're about. Any type of paysites must be destroyed. Your idea makes no sense. Why wouldn't the creator just give the download for free in the first place? Wth?

ETA: FAQ (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/index.php/topic,1104.0.html)=WIN.
Huge sigs (like Ash said) and instantly hitting the new thread button before reading around or reading the FAQ = Phail.

Some advice, we really don't take too kindly to huge sig graphics here.

Did you even bother to read anything on here before you hit the new thread button?

Nonono, you're not getting what I mean.
This isn't restricting access for content. There is no promise for content. Already, on multiple sites, there are request threads in which this commissions system is used, but without the money part. I'm only saying; rather than deny access to community content for money, why not pay the artists for their hard work? It's a tasty alternative to paysiting. The community gets the content, free, once the workmanship and time is paid for.

I'm all for the removal of paysites. They should die. I am in no way defending them. Never lump me in with them! D:

Ok, so let me get this straight. You want someone to pay someone else to work on making something that's not promised? o.o Man. Now I feel like I'm the one on drugs.

*sets the signature on fire*  Seriously, get rid of it.   >:(  It's gone!  Thank you.

We've talked about commissions already and the idea still sucks.

Sorry, I don't see this as any kind of solution, unless you're trying to get people to stop creating. If the fees are paid by the creators, where's the incentive to create? I work to make a hair mesh, and then I have to pay Thomass to upload it? Nah, I'll pass.

PAY UPON COMPLETION
Seriously, did you even read my post?
The content would be screenshotted etc. and sampled to the requesting user before payment is received, and the content is sent.

Perhaps just a one-time fee?

Here's the thing.  TSR DOES pay the FAs on their site.  I'm confused as to what you are exactly trying to get across.  I'm really, REALLY trying to understand.  Unfortunately, I'm left with "HUH?"  Who is going to pay someone for their "work"?  Who's funding this?  

When the tools, tutorials, etc. were made available to the entire community for free, when custom content couldn't exist or wouldn't exist without these tools, should anyone get paid for any of it?  

From a financial perspective, it makes absolutely no sense.

No, no, dasha. You don't pay Thomass to upload it you pay me to look at it and then I give it to Thomass and he pays me so he can share it in the community. :P
Yes I read it and you said:.

What you got? :P So you are saying two different things. o.o I still stick by my first opinion that it doesn't make sense though. It's a phail idea.

Again, why would I pay him? I made the thing, I can sit here at my computer and bwahaha at everyone because they don't have it. And then put it on mediafire or something similar if people want it - absolutely free. A creator having to pay for the privilege of letting other people use their stuff? That's like me having to pay you to let me clean your house.

Oh, I'm sorry. I meant the site itself isn't content hosting,and therefore not promising content. It's a collaboration place for creators/buyers to interact.

I think he's trying to say this:
person requests creator to make something
creator creates it
person pays for the creation
person releases it for download for free for others to use

It's a point that's been argued before but I don't see it as a better alternative at all.  It still upholds the elitism people feel when they buy pay items.  They hold it over people's heads and make them feel bad for simply not having them.

Oh, and it's supposed to be a hobby  and money should never enter the question.  How does this community get away with all this pay crap when other gaming communities spend hundreds of hours on mods but don't even ask for a dime in hosting costs?

It's also a poor-content filtering system.
A) Paying the one time membership ensures at least a minor commitment from the creator, which means they're at least a little confident in their work.
B) The better work you do, the more commissions you get, and as a result, the subscription fee has paid for itself, and you begin gaining money. It's like they say, "You've got to spend money to make money."


You are 100% correct. Money should never change hands. But this is by far not meant to govern everything regarding content. It's just a more community-friendly way to pacify the people that WON'T create WITHOUT money.

Sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. *shrug*

I have a website. I see a file that you have and I like. I say, "Hey, Overwatch, I really like that file. Give me five dollars, and I'll take it."

It's ass backward.

I figured that's what he was trying to say and it doesn't make sense. xD Why can't the creator just release it themselves or upload to MTS2/get a site with someone for free and have them upload it. A person can polk holes all through that plan. Overwatch maybe you should think about this more. Why not just have everything free period and take donations for your own site? It works. It's win.

A.) A creator shouldn't feel like they have to create. That sometimes makes them feel too pressured and they just want to leave.
B.) Wtf? That's just what TSR is doing except they didn't have to pay Thomas to join the site. Are you serious?

*bangs head against computer screen*

Paying for content is wrong. Whether its a deal made for commission or deal from a cut throat. The whole idea here is to get rid of paysites/ donation sites and support FREE sites. The ones who never bat an eye as thousands of people download their work and hardly utter a Thanks. These are the sites who should benefit,  not someone out to make a buck (reguardless if they plan to share it later) I hope that makes some sort of sense. I have types 2 papers today I'm zonked.

Edit cause I am too damn slow :-\

Hey, wipe that blood off.  It'll stain and you won't be able to see your p0rn later.

Many thanks, Ms. A.  

What site was it that used to do that?  There was at one time a site that took requests and fulfilled the, hmm, order.  

First, I'll just download all of the free shit.  Then, if I want something really bad, I'll throw myself at the feet of some of our esteemed members/creators.  *see Calalily Camo Bedding* & *Nouk's Armywife Hair*.

Would I want it bad enough to "commission" the work?  No.  Plus, how would you know which creator to go to for requests?  Who sucks and who doesn't?  What if it doesn't work properly in your game?  When new expansions are released, is the original creator obligated to update the item or must the customer pay an additional fee to have the item updated for compatability?  What if the mesh belongs to another creator?  Do you pay a fee for the mesh and a fee for the recolor/retexture?

These are just a few questions that I came to mind in about 60 seconds.  For many reasons, it's not a plausible idea.  But, I can see what you are saying.  Nice try.

But, hey, we're glad you're here.  

I think the problem overall is... the only people who have the right to collect or disburse any money for any Sims-related stuff is EA Games. Period. If EA wants to commission stuff from creators and add it to their stuff pack or to put on the exchange, that's their legal right.

The rest of us have no legal right to demand, require, or expect any sort of payment for a game we did not create. Anybody who proposes that money exchange hands between anyone but EA, its employees, and its consumers for game content is promoting a breach of the EULA.

There's one small difference between pay sites and sites that just ask for donations to pay for hosting costs - when a site like WickedNoukFamily says "We have a set in the works for April, if we reach the donation target, it'll go on the April aspiration page for everyone" they give that stuff to everybody - whether it's Mr. Gottcash or Ms. Nodough.

Pay sites, on the other hand, only want Mr. Gottcash to have it. They expect Ms. Nodough to cough up cash for the exact same file that Mr. Gottcash already paid for. If a site sets up a target amount and then updates when the target is reached, that's fine - because donating is voluntary, not mandatory.

ArmyWife, I knew the site until you said something about it. :P

Dasha, I agree with you on that. OverWatch do you understand what we are saying? EA should be the only one to collect. If people think they deserve money to create content and give it to others they are doing it for the wrong reason. I do stuff for the game for fun and wouldn't expect people to pay for it (like they would my crap sucks) because then it wouldn't be my hobby it would be my job.

Actually, EULA or not, it's none of EA's business considering they're not the ones creating the content, and it's not their software going into the game. At that point, they need to shut their traps; it's not their work, and I'm not listening. I've got a personal vendetta against them. They have no say in the matter, it's MAXIS and WILL WRIGHT that should have the say. But feh, life doesn't work that way. I install the product without agreeing to the EULA anway, in case the feds come knocking at my door anyway.

And honestly, I can't say enough, PAYSITES MUST BE DESTROYED!
But if they decide not to self destruct on order, they can at least think of more constructive and less restrictive ways to support their content.

I'm truly confused  ???  I understand what you're saying, but you're definitely in the wrong place to try to sell this idea (pun intended  :D )

I'm not going to repeat what Nii has already said very well.  IMHO (after a lot of years and money paying for garbage I ended up deleting from my game), the majority of the best creations are free.  And those who create/sell Sims creations for money when they know there are free/low cost sites available should, as my dearly departed father would say, go get a real job.


See above comment.  If they don't want to do it as a fun and free/low cost hobby, let 'em keep their stuff for themselves.  The rest of us don't need it that badly.

Whether you (or I) like it or not, EA Games owns the rights to the software - they acquired those rights legally by purchasing them. They own the software used to create custom content, they specify the terms of its use and whether you agree to the EULA or not, if tomorrow EA announced that all user-created custom content had to be taken off the Internet, those refusing to do so would have a tough legal battle on their hands.

Now, whether EAxis is right or wrong isn't really the purpose of this forum, site, etc. We all agree that pay site owners do NOT own the rights to what they're trying to pimp, and therefore should - nay, must - be destroyed.

Only stance EA has taken is pro file share.  The exchange, as much of a hot mess as it is, was intended for everyone to be able to share their stuff.  Also, remember the butthurt the paysites felt when meshes started to be included in lots and sims because of the Pets expansion pack?

All I have to say is I payed THEM for their product. I'll do whatever the hell I like with it. That disc is my property, and it always will be. They can suck a dick.
And I never received any payment to restrict my rights. So fuck them, they never asked me. Buying rights is the epitome of bureaucracy. My rights aren't for sale, and whoever is selling them doesn't have my permission.

Your argument is silly, without merit, and bores me. ::)
I am going to go move in my other two households of pirates and see if it's possible to make a brothel with the OFB expansion. I think Hecubus will run it. Or Calalily. muahahahahaha.

Haha! A friend of mine did that. Romance sim + home business with "charge for being there" + date = amazing customer ratings.

If you are being serious: Don't be terrified.  Not all of us are scary.  Thus spake the Cute One (tm).

If you are being facetious: We make a living scaring people.  Haven't you seen Monsters Inc?  Except we are better-looking than them and we don't have magic doors.  Or do we?  We have rum and juice.

I admit I did not read the OP, but it seemed uninteresting and judging by the following posts, I did not miss much.  The idea of the commission in general does not bother me, but not if it is dependent on a video game or similar.  I would not pay anyone to write me Final Fantasy fan fiction or fan art, and I would not pay anyone to make me Sims 2 content.

If these people are talented, and some Sims 2 creators are very talented without needing the game to create works of art, they can make money selling original art instead of Sims 2 content.  I don't see why more people don't do this.  Is it because they think Simmers are stupid or something?  I'm not dumb!  :(

*passes the fresh cookies to Squooshy*  Don't be terrified to post!  Welcome :)  It's only scary the first couple of times, then it's a snap.  And you've already been posting a bit, haven't you?  Still all in one piece so far??  ;D

I am scared of euterpes avi.

No one here is scary. Well, not too scary, anyway. Wait, that wasn't right. *Does best Johnny Depp "duh, Pirates," look*.

*passes Pepsi to go with the cookies* The rum is really strong, have this instead!

Hey!  I'm the resident baker here--what else am I supposed to have for an avi?''

*stuffs a fresh cookie in amazone's mouth*

Thanks for stuffing me, i could need some cookies.  :-*

Hasn't anyone else got a magic door?  :o  I have one - I thought we all did.  I even have a scary looking avi.

To the OP - creators often already pay for their admission - they pay for site costs.  There really is no need for a honking great corporation to horn in and attempt to control content, considering that Tom Ass doesn't play the game, and wouldn't know good ingame content from a hole in the ground.  Not to mention that this would be foolish business practice in the extreme - Tom Ass would have to wait 3 or 4 years to get any money - because no one would pay their subscription fee until they were really, really sure they could fulfill requests.  It would also cut out all the extraneous content (like mine) - I personally don't want to work for you or anyone else, and would never take a request in exchange for money.  I'll do it for free, and make a gift of it, but not for money - I'm no professional artist.

Your system is convoluted and unnecessary, as the free community shows.

Hec's avi is the scary one. She does after all have that bloddy axe, and she uses it so well........

I've read all of Overwatch's posts and maybe it's just me, but it seems to have a lot of contradictions. Paysites are bad, yes, they are evil. But please enlighten me, how is paying someone to create something for me, how is that any different from subscribing to a paysite? Money crosses hands=payment for content that is supposed to be freely shared.
Whether you like the EULA or not, when you clicked to install the game you agreed to bide by that EULA. While there are many of us with a grude or two against EA, this site is not "EA Must Be Destroyed", it is for the destruction of paysites.
Your grudge against EA, take it to EA, mail them every day if you want, I don't care.

As for ANY money crossing hands for Sims2 content, no matter what the excuse, it is wrong, plain and simple.

If people won't create without money than they shouldn't be creating at all. 

You got about half of it right.  If you are wanting, I assume a specific mesh to be made there are several resource already available for that (and several creators who take advantage of them, and by advantage I mean they also pirate the meshes and then in turn charge you for them - but that is neither here nor there) not one of them is sim related and you can infact get models from them and they can infact take your money.  Legally.

However at the end of that process all you have is a mesh, because as you know if you want to mess around with putting that mesh into a .package and then only releasing said .package for the exchange of money then infact you are doing something illegal and highly frowned upon.  Regardless of the arrangement, exchanging creations for money is wrong. 

However, like you said, your money is your money.  If you request something, and someone makes it for your for free, you can send them all the cash you want in gratitude, it's a free country (depending on your country).  I don't think many people are willing to do that though ( if you are I'll gladly direct you to my paypal account) and thus the paysite was born.

Overwatch, your idea does not work for one single reason:

The most notorious paysites (TSR, Peggy, Reflex sims - I have a special dislike for her) do it solely for the money, not for the love of the game. Sure, it is obvious that some TSR creators love the game, but the subscribing system at TSR is set up to rake in the maximum amounts of cash, and as the site is run as a business, not as a hobby, they have no incentive to change their system to support one-time fee for the commission only.

And Peggy and Marcela at Reflex are also doing it for the money, so why would they change their system? Your idea would mean less money for them, so they're not going to do it.

So, it's not feasible solution, but nice try.  :)

I don't know why you're trying to CATER to people who are scamming others on a daily basis to get some cash. There is no good reason at all to pay for any FAN work. Period. Trying to tell people "You DESERVE this for your hard work" is EXACTLY why we have 3 million paysites scamming now. They think they deserve the payment, and are against sharing the items because it reduces the total amount of money they get. They have no business to demand money for a creation they don't own. We have no intention in relenting and telling them "Well, you worked hard, you deserve this buck from me." when in reality they really don't deserve it at all. If they did 'deserve' it, wich they would only if they had a liscence to sell their creation, then paysites shouldn't be a problem either. Right now they are just thieves, nothing more.

Plus I would say that the best creators out there NEVER take requests, let alone for money.  Why?  Because they say, "Hm, this seems like a nifty idea, I would like to put this in my game.  The only ones I can think of who take requests are UDontknow, with her Harry Potter sims.  Creators creator best when they want to.

Eero used to take commisions for his work from Micha. Is that who you guys are thinking about?

I have to say that the whole idea stinks. No offense. But money changing hands for sims cc is still paying for downloads, and that's wrong. Period. Sorry Charlie!

Edit for typo. Wark isn't a word, but work is.  :D

Sorry if I sound completely off, I've got sinusitis and my brain feels like it could explode at any minute but...

You want someone to pay someone else to create something, and then the said creator releases it for free?! Thats called a payfile in my books, so no, big and utter fail!

Or we could just tell the creators who won't create without money to go f*ck themselves and enjoy the wonderful stuff put out be free creators instead.

This plan is practically a sneaky way for paysites ot get away with charging.  :-X

It is if you're a chocobo.

I never really know what I want in my game, so creators not taking any requests is fine by me.  I always find something nice that I never would have thought of in the first place anyway.  :P