PMBD

Some questions about this article and the website, if you know, please answer.

- Is the writer anyone on this forum, or is she independant?
*Edit: She is a free creator, but I don't know for wich website
- Is this site popular, more mainstream?
*Edit: This is a self upload site, anyone over 18 can upload content.

Because if she is indeed independant, and the site is fairly popular, maybe more gamesites will be picking up on this. More attention to the paysite issue is bad for EA, so maybe they'll do something if this picks up.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/528429/why_wont_ea_take_down_illegal_sims.html

If this is independant, I urge you to contact her and tell her about:

- EA letting paysites sell branded items and not taking any responsibility
- The possible implications of their actions
- Any info that has not been talked about yet by her, send it to her
- The fact that numerous people have contacted EA by phone, have sent letters to directors, etc, and if you are one of those people, mention it to her!
- Legal information

Time to sharpen our pitchforks again and involve some media.

Thanks

*Edit: In the end it's not a huge deal. But if we can contact some game websites with this kind of information, it can help the cause. Someone in for another campaign?

I only just discovered that site over the holidays, so I don't know too much about it.

It's a freelance journalism news site. Bookmarked it because I was interested in maybe doing some pieces for them. Great place for an article about paysites, more people will be able to read about it.

There is an interview with the creator from All About Style on there too. Not sure if it was conducted by the same person though.

Never heard of this publication which surprises me, 'cause I'm an on- and off-line news junkie.

One sentence in the article is (slightly) misleading referring to PMBD:  "They take content from Sims 2 paysites and update it to their site so all users can download freely, causing many paysite owners to lose business."

We don't take it, we buy it and redistribute it free.  That makes us sound like thieves, not honest pirates.

<puts out a plate of free homemade cookies next to the rum>

I've invited her over to talk about it and give her more info for maybe future publications... I hope she's interrested.

So, anyone interrested in contacting some specific online gaming magazines about this? Or are you only here to complain and download?  :wink:

Actually, she is our newest member. Hope she posts soon, so you guys can discuss with her. I will just watch for now.  :lol:

If it doesn't pan out with her PM me. I'm more than willing to do some free site articles and interviews.

Hello!  I guess I'm here to 'clear the mist', so to speak:

- Associated Content is a freelance journalism site, correct.  You need other credentials in order for work with them (knowledge of SEO and writing web-specific content) however.

- Associated Content is a high-traffic site, but it is fairly new.  It didn't really rise into popularity until late 2006-2007.

- I only know of this site from the WCIF section at modthesims2.

I'd be interested in any other information, especially information specific to certain sites (like Peggy's, which inspired me to write that article).  I think that would have the greatest impact and controversy.

Has anyone mentioned that other gaming communities would not allow this to go on?  My eyes are only half-mast.

HI AEOLSON!  You are kind of awesome.  We will help you make your article more awesome, and then we will pimp it out.

Hi, aeolson, and welcome! We'll do our best to answer questions from our own side of the fence and set the record straight from our experience. One misconception is that the files hosted here at the booty site are stolen or what people call pirated. Nope. They've been paid for with hard-earned cash and the people who paid for them then donate them to PMBD for sharing with other Sims 2 players.

From everything we've ever heard from EA Games, file sharing is fine and dandy and they've never attached the caveat that the files we share can only be content that was gotten for free. From the wording given to us, the sharing of free files and pay files is good and encouraged.

There are many people here on this site and each one has a reason of their own for being here. Some are against making profit from something the pay sites don't own, like the .pkg file that was invented and copyrighted by said game company. It infringes upon the company's rights.

Others are against the idea of making a profit upon the backs of another company, like using the McDonald's or Disney's logo on content that to be honest, is really poor quality. Again, they're making profit that they have no right to make.

Some are into this fight because, well, they just like to fight against people that don't have a clue that they don't have a legal or moral leg to stand on when it comes to this issue. There are so many layers and sublayers to this debate, at least from our point of view that you're going to have to talk to many people to get a clear idea of what's going on.

We are a community within a community on some level, though. We want everyone to be able to have content that expands our game play, looks good and doesn't bork our games. Sadly, much of the paysite content fails to reach these goals because much of it is sheer, unadulterated crap. As long as sites that demand payment exist, we'll fight. No other gaming community permits this, so why should we?

There are awesome creators that give away their content, you can find them all around! Totally and one hundred percent free, not even asking for much beyond a thanks and lots of times, not even that. Check them out, they're worth looking at!

And some are like Pescado and like MOAR FIGHT and causing butthurt to arrogant psy site owners. How do we know they're arrogant? Easy, they come here and scream at us and prove it!

Some of us are here because we're just plain cheap.  :wink:

I recommend perusing the hundred-some page thread Your Ugliest Paysite Finds on the Arr? board for some perspective on paysite 'quality'.  Start from the last page and work backwards...the Buntah stuff alone will make you laugh to keep from screaming (or, as I do, both).  And the never-dying Carla Niven Must Be Destroyed thread in all it's gruesome glory (that particular site has one of the more expensive pay plans, if memory serves).

I read your article, well done and good on ya for tackling it, but Paden's advice to amend the phrase 'take custom content' to 'purchase and freely share custom content' is very important for accuracy's sake.  

I read some comments to your article, one in particular stood out:

"I guess I can understand both sides. Firstly they ask for a donation, but if it is illegal to do so, I wonder if you emailed the site owner and let them know you dont have the money to donate, I wonder if any would be kind enough to give it away for free...doubtful, but worth a shot. Second... user created content could take hours to create. I know if I made something creative, Id want payment as well. But.... like you said, the TOS says they cannot make paysites.... so.... its in limbo. If all of a sudden all paysites were free, who the hell would want to create content? Honestly, the quality of content would suck, and take a huge dip. You think some of the textures are bad now, imagine if they were free? I do not want these sites to go away, because with it goes their content, and quality of work, which is hard work; like it or not. Yes some of peggysims things suck, and fool the eye on the pc, but 90% of her content is really frigging good."

My bold.  Whether the poster is blowing smoke or not (or inhaling something - 'peggysims things suck' but it's still worth paying for?!), that warped, ignorant, overall belief is still held by too many people in the sims community, and it is a total affront to all the free creators/modders/innovators great and small, as is any assumption that if paystuff is forced out of the community for good there will be nothing left.

To quote an esteemed colleague or two here at PMBD:  Bitch, please...

EA is lazy and blithe and has zero impetus to enforce its own EULA as it makes money on the game one way or another.  They pay lip service to the customer base about the 'benefit to the community' - the community in which they've allowed an environment of gamers fleecing their fellow gamers to flourish.  They suck...

Man, I hate EA today!   :x   They're crapping on one of my favorite pasttimes.  Ticks me off.

I'm interested. But how do we go about this contacting business? Should we just kind of forward the article onto them, along with other information that has been contacted? And I don't read gaming magazines, so I'm not sure who to contact. But I would like to help!

Paden, my statement in the article wasn't meant to be interpreted that way.  I didn't mean take content as stealing content, and if it sounded that way, I apologize for that.  Although I can't re-edit it to make the point more clearer (that's an issue on AC's part), I can always do a follow-up article to clarify.

My biggest issue is actually with Peggy for lots of reasons.  Back when I was new to the whole 'custom content' thing, I was referred to Peggy and thought her stuff was great -- almost thought it was worth it to 'donate'.  Then when I downloaded the content and installed it, it didn't look as good in the game -- thought that content was supposed to be that way.  I didn't think you could get great quality content without paying, so I would peruse TSR and Peggy's site, thinking that's how EA designed it.  Thankfully when I found modthesims2 a while later, I learned that it didn't have to be that way (thanks to Ms. Bergkvist and Alkaloid).

That's a big issue.  Tonnes of other people probably follow that same belief and pay to get the content, thinking that's what they have to settle for.  They don't even know that this is illegal and it's not right for them, the paysite creators, or on EA's part.

If this can be addressed and brought to a bigger audience, it helps educate the masses.  Paysite owners lose customers, they close their sites.  EA may never change how they address this issue, but if paysite owners know that people will never download their content because they have the booty or places to get great quality content, they'll have to close down.

Anyways, to my main point: if someone could share with me personal experiences/stories about dealing with paysite owners -- like buying content and being less quality, contacting the owner and the owner decides to ban you, for example -- it would help a lot with spreading the word.  I'm especially interested in anything related with Peggy, since she's one of the biggest paysite owners with tonnes of traffic (plus the numerous problems with her content!).

(I'm not familiar with a lot of the paysite owners, so if there are other controversial stories surrounding other paysite owners...I'm game.)

Here's some more threads you should definitely check out:

http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=192

The original TSR thread

http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=1085

Thread about Jan/Charlotte/Sybil. She had a site called Main Street Sims and stole stuff from several free creators(some of whom go on here), and sold it as her own. If you read this, be sure to make some popcorn.

I'm new to the community, and don't know a lot, but if you want help don't hesitate to PM me.

Welcome, aeolson.

You should also check this thread.

Carla Niven must be destroyed!
http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=5

She/he stole this one from Peggy and make it uglier.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/PreviewTe/lime_lace.jpg)

These 2 use alpha of a dress I made when I was an FA at TSR and that dress is so crappy that I ask TSR to delete it along with other crappy things I made.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/PreviewTe/feathers.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/PreviewTe/eve_rhinestones.jpg)


I know that shading on black cloth is quit hard, but this is not and accuse to make this.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/PreviewTe/eve_feathers.jpg)


It is so obviously that there is no word like 'quality' in her dictionary.


Did you know about the POSER meshes ?
More detail at
http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=698385&postcount=310
 Rose Pay and TSR (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=698391&postcount=311)
 XMsims (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=698414&postcount=313)
 Peggy Pay (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=698436&postcount=314)
Peggy Pay (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=698446&postcount=318)
 TSR, Peggy, Rose, and others (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=699369&postcount=382)
 XMsim and Peggy Special Gift (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=699438&postcount=401)
 Various pays from Peggy and Rose, as well as XMsims (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=700630&postcount=465)
 XMsims (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=700648&postcount=468)

What definately should be emphasised (sp????????EINZ can't be pooped) is that pay creators claim that pay content is much higher in quality than most free creators can manage, and most Sims 2 players go for the exclusiveness of the content, believe it must have more quality for people to ask money for it. Also, in this community that has alot of teens, pay means status. You have something someone else doesn't have.

A scammers life used to be damn easy in this community, and talking about sharing files would get you banned from allmost everywhere. That suddenly changed when Pescado started his butthurt adventure.

The pay community is leeching of the efforts of the free community.
- Please contact people like Delphy from http://www.modthesims2.com (I could ask him if he's interrested, however he's retired from his site).

- All Sims 2 modding tools are tools created for free, by people who create fro free. Paysite owners abuse their work and research, and use their efforts in their scams.
Allthough Wes_H does not agree with this site at all, you can contact him for a different view on paysites and a free community. You can reach him on http://www.modthesims2.com (I could ask you for him, but it would make no difference to him, I think he allready may or may not be interrested to say anything more.)

- You could contact the owner of SIMPE, but he's always busy. The ones that currently work on SIMPE (Numenor, Inge and her hubby Peter) arwen't particulary interrested, they're sick of the debate and one of them has a payfile.
SIMPE is a free tool that all paysites abuse, and if they say they don't use it, they are lying. It's the only tool that will offer them acces to the gamefiles they mod.

- Once paysite owners find out something new about how to mod something effectively, you will have to wait untill pigs fly untill they tell you. You are competition, not another community member. Ever tried asking Peggy a tutorial on how to recolor hair, or make a cute shape? Or maybe ask Suna
Dr_Pixel and Windkeeper, Sunair?? not sure, (Dr. Pixel has no (more?) payfiles) are the only exceptions, they have shared their knowledge alot as far as I know.

Conflict starts in 2004, and no, it's not started by free sites OR Pirates!
The recent conflicting has often been blamed on pirates who are 'ruining the community spirit... ' but that's a lie.
Before anyone even dared to say publically what they thought about paysites, The Sims Resource, the biggest one, made a very clear statement on what they thought of the site they thank EVERY CENT THEY EARNED to:
http://modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=30978
The escuse: No, ofcourse they're not competition... they just have adult content! OMG!


MTS Mission Statement 2007 and the banning of pay items, the community being allowed to publically speaking about paysites, wich lead to revenge.
http://modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=214586&highlight=mission
and
http://modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=240944&highlight=pay+content

These ones created even more animosity between MTS2 and paysites, and has resulted in a huge smearing campaign of the owner. Yes, paysites do take revenge to those who have a big mouth.

This includes death threats, DDoS attacks, threating people with black hat hacker attacks, harassing people, inspiring young teens to work out ther smearing campaigns os they stay out of the loop, and even collectively contacting EA Games to get Modthesims2 removed from the official The Sims 2 site.
Some paysite owners can easily make a living from what they do, and some will do anything to keep their nice(often tax free) income.

The Great Paysite Debates!
http://forums.sims2community.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85
Please read these threads on how some people think about paysites, positie and negative, how paysite creators usually act, how one falls on her face by getting her lies exposed, and what people's views are on this issue. Also how I scream at people. lol.

Paysite Owners sharing personal information (thx to redisenchanted!)
Don't forget Rose and others sharing personal information (like physical addresses) they got from paypal.
Link: http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=58&highlight=rose+paypal



I will add to this later, others, please add links to threads containing info about this. Thanks.

Shame on you, Nouk - you forgot the one you HOST! Silly girl.

Money Better Spent (http://www.moneybetterspent.org) is a collection of legal and ethical arguments, along with some suggestions on how to combat the paysite problem.

Don't forget Rose and others sharing personal information (like physical addresses) they got from paypal.

Link: http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=58&highlight=rose+paypal

Oooh, oooh ...

But before I get started ... welcome! And great article!

Now, for another point ... the utter, complete lack of customer service on most of these pay sites. If you pay for a file, a mod or a service (an example of a service would be the Sims 2 Enhancer, also mentioned on this board), and it doesn't work, even if the site owner KNOWS it wasn't tested thoroughly and there are bugs, you are out of luck. You most likely won't even get an e-mail, or will get one that is of absolutely no use to you. An exchange or a refund? Silly customer!

On the other hand, whenever I've had a problem with a free creator's work, only in one or two cases has the creator never responded to me. They are usually very conscientious in trying to find out if there is a problem on their end and correct it. Occasionally, you might get a snide remark if you had the brain fart on your end and did something stupid (and sometimes, you might just deserve it! :) ) , but the point is that you usually DO get some sort of help.

Now WHICH type of site has better quality?

What puzzles me is why EAGames invites certain paysite owners to their little shindigs. I can see ignoring them, but inviting them to partake in canapés and beverages while looking at the newest EA creations is a bit much. But we've gone over this here, too, so 'nuff said about that, I guess.

Thank you :D
Could you pm me? I think this convo should be done privately. Anyone else interrested, just pm me!

No one has mentioned this..........pay sites are unique to the Sims community. No other game sites have pay files. It is just my humble opinion, but with EA's complete lack of enforcing their own EULA, they are the ones who are ultimately responsible for the thousands of Sim players who have been bilked out of money for content that is far from acceptable in quality.

Ultimately EA must accept the blame and shoulder the responsibility for the numbers of fans who now "ARR" the product instead of purchasing it, with the inclusion of SecuRom on BV, and all future expansions and stuff packs, they have seriously undermined the base of loyal customers they once had.

The problems with the Sims communities are scattered all over the web. And as for the existance of some of the pay sites, well their creative abilities exist only in their imagination, hence the need for their "own site", as none of their shoddy creations would pass many free  site guidelines. So they parade themselves off as independent pay sites, use the "bandwidth costs" to justify their pay files. With so many free sites offering free hosting, there is truly NO need for a paysite to exist.

And EA's responsibility in this matter should not be overlooked. But as I said that's just my opinion.

It didn't start like that.  It started by Thomas using the MtS2 pm system to contact all the top creators on MtS2 to try to recruit them as paid featured artists for tsr and leave MtS2.  The line was drawn in the sand.

There was also a big upset over creators at tsr using the free tutorials, free tools, free beta testing, and free live help to then move the items from MtS2 over to their site after they were done and then acted like they had done it all on their own.  They gave no credit to anyone on their site.  If I remember correctly there was even a site news item on their site basically claiming that they had cracked the code themselves.  The result of the upset made tsr put a credit section on the items uploaded.

The banning of mentioning MtS2 on tsr was after both of these things for sure.

Let's not forget to throw in TSR's banning sprees of members suspected of sharing TSR goodies & not giving refunds of those members paid subs after said banning.

I had 300 + days left on my sub when i was banned. No refund. No nothing. All i got was a email threat from atwat. The Biatch! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Witchboy/Smileys%20Ect/Everyday/lol.gif)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Witchboy/Signatures/peeing-man.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Witchboy/Signatures/TSR1.jpg)

Thanks everyone for the information.  I think it might take me a while to read through all of it, but I'm planning to write about some specific areas, starting with Rose and TSR.

Anouk, is there any online documentation of all the things mentioned above?

-Liegen Schonheit can tell you about people trying to get her site shut down, also, there's Hecubus, who owned MoneyBetterSpent, whos site got closed after complaints of copyrights infringements. Funny thing is: 1. creators don't wond copyrights over anything usable in the game and 2. There was no custom content on the site.

-Death threats: Contact Sherrie, it was in her guestbook.

-DDoS attacks: Contact Wicked Sims, Insimenator.net, this site.

-Threatening people with black hat hacker attacks: heather changeri or whatever... I Believe this is the thread where she threatened this site (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=25&highlight=retailsims). Also read What was posted on her site (http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/hate/retailsims.html).

-Inspiring young teens to work out ther smearing campaigns so they stay out of the loop: This was the 'zomg post everywhere that delphy is a pedo and steals money' thing. Anywhere it was posted it was deleted, but someone kept it: read this (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=813).
Also this person trying to invlove Pescado, owner of this site, chatlog: Here (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/crazy.txt).
More about it in this thread: Read this (http://phorum.mustnotbenamed.com/viewtopic.php?t=813&highlight=medico).

-and even collectively contacting EA Games to get Modthesims2 removed from the official The Sims 2 site: If you really want to know, I'll send it in a pm.


(Thanks to Jessica for using the search option better than I can :D)

Hi and welcome.  Very good article and I am glad that you are here to see what those of us, creators and players, have experienced.

(I'll admit I didn't read everything in this entire thread, but most of it  :wink: )

My issue with paysites is that if you are going to run a business, you should have quality control, fix the items that do not work properly, such as bad animation.  Also, many of the creations are photoshopped heavily and tend to not look the same in the game.  Additionally, when a paysite updates a creation, if you no longer have a subscription, you cannot get the update of the item.  Not to mention, those who have paid for subs or sets and never received them.

However, I think EA receives kickbacks from sites such as TSR.  They seem to get special treatment.  So, how can you call it a fansite?  

I look forward to seeing your articles in the future.

Oh yes, I remember that ... it was when the objects code was "cracked" and TSR claimed they did it, it was funny because since it was just been cracked early objects had a lot of issues and TSR end up having in the uncomfortable position of having to provide support over something they knew nothing about it.

TSR is funny in so many ways, anyone remembers when someone created a similar program to SimPE and they tried to push it?

Ah, see this is where I'd like to jump in.  I've been saying to the husband for months now that someone - not necessarily me - but someone needs to write in to Games for Windows (the computer gaming mag we subscribe to - shit I said the "s" word!) because it would be interesting to see if they would have the cajones to write an article about T.G.P.D.  They are so focused on WoW right now (and have been for, oh I don't know, ever) that I'd be surprised if they even knew that an online community existed for The Sims2 (and not made up of only 12 year olds).  "Real gamers" read that magazine and putting it out there for them might just be what this debate needs for EA to take a stand.  

So yeah, I'm all fired up now and about to fall asleep while I type, but I just wrote a long-ass letter that I plan on typing up and mailing in ASAP.  I'd send it via their feedback form (http://www.gamesforwindows.com/en-US/Support/Pages/Feedback.aspx), but I don't want to type it all up only to find out it has some sort of bullshit character limit.  

I plan on including links to the FAQ here (as well as recommending the Arr! section of this site as a whole), Nouk's online petition, aeolson's online article (if that is okay with you aeolson), the "TSR is a sucky-ass sucky website" thread, and at least one other thread I found where folks are debating the legalities of not only paysites but file sharing.

Any one got any other links involving The Great Paysite Debate?  Either share 'em (because as Sparkle's signature states: Sharing is Caring) or if you write to any gaming mags (whether it be GfW or something else) include them yourself.  But we should definitely do this thing.

MTS2 Mission Statement is a good read. (http://hideki.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=214586)

The Great Paysite Debates.  Over at s2c forums. (http://forums.sims2community.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85)

I think you should also include the HChangeri blackhat attacks, and any sort of documents that describe the paysite owners stealing paypal information. This would show that not only are paysites illegal, but their owners do other illegal things...AND EA does nothing to stop them.

PineAppleBrain, Spacebuccaneer, a pm is on the way!

Very nice of you to bring up newer posts with critics against EA for not doing anything to shut down paysites, even though they claim themself
that payitems are illegal.

This is nothing new, we have discussed it over and over again, and this
article didn't bring anything new to the table so and say. But i agree, isn't it time to focus more on media, to bring the focus constantly against EAs own double moralism. Why do they create rules in their EULA and then not follow them? Well, most of us know the answer, time to make an action against them? I would do it.

This is a question we've also discussed several times, but what is the real outcome after many of you have sent e-mails, questions, stories about paysites to some guys representing EA? The paysites are still up and running, they are renewing their sections, their items are getting more expensive, Peggy is moving her sites around, probably 1 reason is because she knows very well that her stuff ends up in the booty, so i don't understand all her fuzz trying to make it more "difficult".

A very good question: "- EA letting paysites sell branded items and not taking any responsibility"

I have another question, who would for sure work where i live, - EA
is in fact responsible - i can complain on paysites to them, for items made
by paysiteowners and are broken. Why i could complain? Because they are not following their own laws against copyrights, and if that isn't enough, EA have a big official site who promotes paysites, they put
the spotlight on them, give them free commercial, interviewing paysiteowners. EA promotes them, doesn't their own EULAs matter at all?

When you mention to involve some media, which media do you think of?
Who would be interested in typing about this, when it's not been mentioned in any media before? I can't see that a newspaper is interested in a case like this, Sims 2, the paysites and the pirates, but there might be someone who are interested in
the law, The EULA and the principels. I agree that gamers magazine
could be a good place to start with, like Pineapplebrain and another one
is suggesting. I really would hope they could accept the articles.


For the english people, or americans, don't you have something like
"customers survice" - an organisation or section under the law, who protect the customers right against beeing swindled, and to protect the
buyers against beeing tricked. If i lived in USA i would have gone that far, or at least asked some lawyers there what is going on, and hope for the best that they cared.

To me EA do not longer stand as a serious company, i thought they were very professional, but they are not. They are not honest to their customers, who let other customers abuse their own laws and get away with it. I have no respect for EA as a company anymore, i bought BV
and Seasons, but i might stop there.

So i am with you Nouk in for a new action, paysites must be destroyed!
It would be nothing better than to involve some media, even if it's not
CNN or BBC.  :lol:

One more clarification:

The "pirate" thing is just a metaphor. Robin Hood would be more apropos. We buy files that should not be being sold in the first place, according to the EULA all must click "I agree" to when installing the games.

It is more about the booty (pirates have treasure) than "pirating," but the forum owner enjoys a bit of misdirection now and then and seems to be amused that the pirate metaphor causes some to think we are literally pirating files.

All booty files were paid for. And we don't play favourites. We like Numenor, generally speaking, and respect his work, but a payfile is a payfile, and we chose--after heated debate!--not to give people a pass or ignore that they are defying EA's EULA just because they are otherwise nice folks. It's not, for the most part, a campaign motivated by animosity. If a paysiter is disliked, it is because they are jerks, or are boils on the bum of the Simming community, not specifically because they have payfiles.

Note that TSR claims MTS2 is "bad" because they have adult items.
Point A: not anymore.
B: TSR's "non-adult" content frequently crosses the line, in that you hope kids aren't downloading it, and in that their advertising revenues are generated by some skeevy sites.
C: it was already noted above that MTS2 was vilified after TSR ran a raid on the site trying to woo away talented creators, hoping they would be persuaded to sell their work (thus taking AWAY FROM the community at large, as not everyone can afford to buy files or have a credit card to pay with).
D: personal and non-Sims-related info from years and years ago was dug up about MTS2's lead guy and the constant barrage of posts about a grossly exaggerated version of that info, played for maximum outrage, directly led him to get fed up and bail.
E: TSR had to be threated with lawyers to release a creator's content when a creator decided she couldn't be a party to breaking the EULA anymore.

Also already mentioned, but worth underscoring: paysiters shared financial and personal data about customers. Indefensible, really.

DDOS attacks are attempted on PMBD and freesites constantly to run up hosting bills, pressure freesiters to join TSR, to eliminate competition, and so on.

Again, people breaking the law compounded that, because EA are being waffly about enforcing their own legal documents, with further illegal and unethical behavior.

Then, as also noted, there's the rampant copyright theft and infringement: paysites sell items that rip off the IP and branding and logos of Disney, Coke, Pepsi, Winnie the Pooh, Starbucks, Subway, celebrity photographs that are owned by magazines or professional photographers or the celebs themselves, makeup brands (with their barely Photoshopped advertisements included), fashion labels / designs, and more.

Paysiters steal free content and try to sell it, like 2-for-u stealing Enayla / Linda Berkvist's free skins. Pandora stealing MATY's hacks. DLMuslow stealing from, well, everyone. SORRY! I goofed here. DLMuslow is not a paysiter, she is just a thieving wart. Sites trying to sell kathy and Eric's (free and generously provided and supported) Insiminator tool. It never ends.

One pro-paysiter even got caught raiding the booty and used "it was really a DDOS-like attempt" as her excuse for this hypocrisy.  

The "donations for bandwidth" excuse was somewhat fair back when Sims 1 first came out. Now anyone can find free hosting for their creations, and so that excuse is just hot air.

People pay and do not always get anything for the money! Scams abound.

And the best content, IMVHO, has always been from free sites, who are also more open to providing support for their work.

DL Mulsow is a paysiter?

Nope, just hated by lots of people.

She is still free! Keep your hands off of her! :D

Thomass has been queried over and over again about the appropriateness of skanky items but he hasn't bothered to reply, let alone to remove the items in question.  Hey, sex sells. :roll:

They tried to use that as an excuse? Is that online somewhere? I'd love to read it.

Yeah, well, at least we can be thankful that he keeps Atwat on a leash behind a computer instead of on a street corner trying to sell it...

Lyric Lee - that was her claim for this:
http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/hate/lyric_log.txt
http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/hate/lyric.txt

Funny bitch!  :evil:  Is she really an admin in #social too? I have been there sometimes, but haven't seen her nick.

Lyric Lee ... is a interesting case, she was a administrator on MTS2 and their offshoot S2C until she seem to done something ...

From the FAQ:

Crapcakes. I knew that. That's what I get, trying to type all that in before running out the door to class. My bad.

See? We are even even-handed amongst freesiters! Clearly when one sucks as a human being, we hate them even though, technically, we are on the "same side."

Would "strikethru" it, but that code isn't enabled on here or something.

I guess her avatar as an admin at supernova shows who she really is...LL

She's not admin any more - she used to do everything around MTS2, but she's long gone for her beloved paysite.

Grey Goose at the Save the Sims Community forums, where they plot to close freesites, is in fact Lyric Lee.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/583687/paysite_debates_why_the_sims_resource.html

Hello, hello!  Going to revive this thread for a second.  It's an article about TSR vs MTS2, but it's mostly about TSR's shady practices.  It'll be interesting to see what happens with this one.

I think I love you.  You are so awesome!!!

Just an additional thought/note, MTS2 was the site that provided the tutorials that most of the creators at TSR learned from to create.  Also, Numenor, Wes H, Delphy, and I know I'm forgetting someone, all from MTS2 were and are responsible for creating FREE tools that enable the use of custom content.  I didn't know if that had ever been explained to you, but thought it might be useful in future articles.

*rum and cookies for you*

Thanks for the link!  :lol:

It's a shame that for something written recently, they would've mentioned that MST2 no longer contains adult content.

Yup. You'd think with a site as popular as MTS2, people who actually play the game and download for it would notice when all the adult stuff went *poof*

Thanks Jelendra!  I forgot to mention that.  Whoops.  Blonde moments suck.  :D

Heheh, no problem. It would give a little extra kick to the article if it addressed that MST2 dropped the adult content and TSR STILL bans it. So what's their real excuse? yada yada.

All adult contents at MTS2 went to

http://www.sexysims2.com

I event uploaded a set that MTS2 reject because they was considered it as adult content there.
http://www.sexysims2.com/member/The+T


MTS2 is really strick about adult content these day.

Oh, I knew that.  :wink: I just figured since it was an issue in the article, that the article should mention that MTS2 doesn't even allow CC Venus De Milo paintings on their site, due to the nipplage.

I checked and MTS2 still has realistic skintones and lingerie?  Is that what you mean by adult content?  Because that's what I was referring to when I said TSR also hosted adult content (specifically, you know, sexy time clothes...especially that granny lingerie :shock:).

TSR removed links to MTS2 at the same time EA removed MTS2 from the official site listing for the same reason, one you have conveniently not mentioned. The issue was far more than nude skins, it was Stanfields creation and publishing of The Teen Sex Hack, the Teen Rape Hack and the Incest Hack. EA were as disgusted at the publication of such hacks for their game as TSR were, and rightfully removed links until this content was locked away behind secure registration. Since then, both sites have relaxed their linking policies. This is clearly a one sided argument that has been put forward. I hope you allow other facts to be presented to put balance to your very public opinion.

Who do you suppose really posted that comment?  I'm a bit amused, haha.

TSR reads here all the time though - they couldn't find their arse on their own, let alone that article.  :lol:

Delphy didn't create any of those did he? The teen sex hack, I'm assuming that's inteenator, the rape hack I thought was by Carrigon and I don't know who did the incest hack. I don't really have much interest in them, so I could be wrong, but Delphy gets enough mud thrown at him already.

:(  I've seen more "objectionable" material on TSR than I have ever seen on MTS2.
And it's a moot point now because MTS2 has removed their "adult" content, so for them to still be unmentionable at the EA official site is ridiculous.

As for EA, well what can one say? That they are in bed with TSR is so damn obvious. C'mom, EA's own EULA proves paysites are illegal, but EA promotes TSR as a fansite??? WTF?

Nope, nope, EA gets NO more of my monies, not one single penny. If I find I want an expansion pack or a stuff pack I'm gonna find someone to teach me how to ARR.

None of those items is or, far as I know, ever has been, at MTS2.

TSR has the audacity to not post links to MTS2 because of adult content yet they themselves were going to make an adult version of TSR back in The Sims 1 day (how I wish I had kept that screen shot) and have posted some rather adult looking skins for little girls. Does anyone remember when someone posted a little girl mesh with boobs back in The Sims 1 days? People complained but the fact is if you look for it today its still on the site.

I double posted, FTL.

Did you post it there for the public to read? Stupid pro paysiters lying their asses off.

I don't know who "Lurker" is who's posting in the comments section but they are AWESOME.

Thanks. ;)

Geez! I don't know why I posted twice, there. My bad, y'all.

It's because of all of that rum.  Haven't we talked about this time and time again.  :lol:  You cannot hoard the rum Lorelei.  :wink:

Here, you better take some of it off my hands.  :P

Jase has the inteen at his own forum.  Don't have the link right off hand but I could dig it up if need be...

And didn't MTS2 move all of their "adult content" to SexySims2?? 

Yes they did. It's a completely different site and you have to be of legal age to sign up and download there.

Inteen is here (http://box156.bluehost.com/~aestudi1/forums/inteenimater/index.php). Again, you have to sign up before you can download anything. What the inteen can do is detailed on the download page. I'd call it an adult hack, but it's in no way related to MTS2, as we have established.

So seriously, once and for all, these days the 'adult content' argument is bull. Period.

AFAIK, the incest hack was never finished.  My impression was that after a lot of arguing back and forth about it, Delphy ultimately nixed it.  This was before the adult content split off. 

Sorry--did you mean me? And the 3 rebuttals re: alleged content, above?

If so, no; but I welcome anyone who wants to do so to feel free, as long as my facts are correct.

Since I was asking for verification, and was not 100% sure of my data, someone else who is more clear on those facts can run with it.

I am somewhat curious about this article. It states that MTS2 will not have a Sims3 site.What makes me wonder is whether or not the creators of SimPe will revamp to accommodate Sims3. I would imagine it would be a daunting task to create a free site as large as MTS2, for the Sims3. (yes I know Pes, Sims3 is all lies and propaganda)
Still I have no intention of buying Sims3, it will more than likely have SecuRom on it, and EA will never find the balls to enforce their own EULA to protect the less informed players of the game. I picture the Sims3 making this spectacular debut, and then not having any sales whatsoever. That and that alone would make me dance nekkid through this forum.

Delphy has stated he won't do 3 - he's already retired from 2. wes_h - you'll see him around helping at MTS2, and at MATY, and he's the one who did the bodyshop lighting mod, as well as worked on Simpe and the bodymeshing plugins for milkshape - has already opened a Sims 3 site - you can register and everything.

As to whether Simpe will go on - they can't really make any decisions until they see it. Some of the people will be around surely (Inge's been around since Sims 1 for example) but will they have any need to mod for Sims 3, will they buy it, will it have ingame options that Simpe gives us now?  I'm sure that they're like all of the people in the Sims 2 community, and haven't even decided if they're getting it yet. 

Not to mention that when Simpe was being built, they had help from EA people - whether they will get that again, with TSR pissing in their pocket is another issue. 

wes_h is awesome.  I don't think he gets as near as credit as he should because he's not a public figure.

He rules for the body shop lighting mod alone.  Saved me much time in my Great Downloads purge of '08, what with not having to go into the game to see how stuff looks before I can figure out what to delete.  I can only imagine how helpful it is for creators.  Just be careful with what you delete if you install that one wrong the first time.  Craziness ensues.