PMBD

I recently managed to get one of the forums I occasionally frequent (Boolprop.com) to allow a discussion (http://www.forums.boolprop.com/viewtopic.php?t=14190&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) of the file-sharing issue. Hooray! However, one of the mods thinks that I have been responding too often and that it looks more like an, 'Argue with Denimjo'-type thread rather than a debate. Would anyone else care to add to the discussion to distribute the points freely through other people?

ETA: The only thing they ask (besides civility) is that this site not be linked to.

In one of your posts, on Page 2, you state that someone pays $60/month for unmetered bandwidth.  I think you probably meant $60/year. ;)

Anyhow, I'm reading the thread to see if there's anything I want to respond to.

Edit:  And WTF is up with this chick Ameshisuto with the ginormous signature who disagrees with people calling others by their screenname?  Ugh.

Bigsmallquack says, "A chunk of MATY is a paysite."

*snerk*

Hey, wait a minute, just a chunk? Which chunk would that be? I thought our subscription fees were going to pay for Pescado's bunker, TJ's doghouse, and, er.... Crammyboy's cock?

Oh, dear, I had hoped to not have to say this, but.... Lmao!

It's nice that the moderator jumped in to save a thread that didn't seem to need it.  And that non-moderator, too.

I think Ameshisuto was talking about people's names because she just wants to boost her post count.  And feel important.

I don't care what people call me on a forum, as long as I can recognise it as being in reference to me.  On another forum where I was EO, someone kept calling me EQ... Never had a conniption over that.  :roll:

The paysite debate keeps degenerating into ethics, and ethics battles... not my cup of tea.  I know that not everyone agrees with my ethics, so I see no point in bringing it up more than the one time I take to express it, especially when my opinion isn't... er, in terms of the mainstream here, "correct"?

But anyway, there's a chance that I'm secretly LyricLee/HC--RetailSims lady/Rose/Peggy/my cat in disguise and through a convoluted process, will overthrow JM from here.  Or not, but the chance exists!

Oh god tl;dr on that thread.

Morality is overrated. Do whatever keeps you from slaughtering the masses and move on. I hate people who have to become the moral fucking authority on everything. They're emotionally repressed assholes who could use a good backhand to the brain.

Any non-paysite owner against file-sharing is just pissed they didn't think of it first.

*is planning on reading the entire thread*

Interesting so far.

Mmm I don't mind when others find morality or God in not doing or doing certain things.  That part is fine.  I just dislike when they try to change the actions of OTHERS because of THEIR morals.  This is something that pisses me off to no end, with paysite lemmings and the real world.  

It's just a completely retarded argument, as morality is not a subjective term that you can just throw around wherever you please.  If you find filesharing wrong, if you can't sleep with yourself at night for doing it, then I don't think you should.  However I can, and have no moral or emotional issues in doing so, and no one has any place to tell me not to, save EA games.

Actually, I'm a university ethics teacher, so I know quite a bit about ethics.

The "moral argument" relies on subjective ethics - which is relative to your ethical standpoint.  For example, there is a system of ethics known as Individual ethical egoism, which states that everyone else should do what I want.  So under this system of ethics, it is permissible to force paysites to give you their content for free.  Then there is Nicomachean ethics, which states that if you are a good person, with values like loyalty etc. that everything you do is morally correct (because what sticky choices a good person makes must be correct, because they are a good person).

People talk about "morals" as if there is a standard that everyone follows and that just isn't true.  Nor is there one system of ethics.  So technically, everyone can be "morally right" and still disagree.

Hence war.

Heh...speaking of boolprop.com...

They've recently started turning to their flock of mostly teenaged members for donations to cover their $200 per month hosting fees.  Yes...I said per month.  I'm thinking $200 a month would get me a decent car, not to mention I don't like the thought of exploiting the naivety of teenaged kids.  Do I think they're being ripped off?  Hell yes.  Don't try to tell them that though, they'll defend their ways until they're blue in the face.  Precious group, ain't they?

I don't even have a clue what the site is, but I'm sure enjoying jumping into the debate.

C.

I can tell. ;O

Hopefully my "no one else does this, Simmers are being hoodwinked" will make a nice point...

However, if that Kaibon keeps randomly using the Japanese pronoun for "you," I will pitch a bitchfit.

That's what "anata" means, and that's why you assumed she was accusing someone else of rolling eyes at her, I suppose.  She keeps randomly saying it and it makes absolutely no sense.

What's with the first name-ish usage over there, anyway?  Anywhere else on the internet, it's ridiculously rude to just assume you can use someone's first name.

I wondered what that meant.

I thought maybe it was an acronym for something, heh.

Danke.

C.

Its ridiculously rude to use anyones first name *anywhere* unless you know them well.

I think it's short for:  Watashiwa baka desune?  (I'm an idiot, aren't I?)

I wish I had more than a semester of Japanese sometimes. :D  But I was done with school after that, and I'm not going to pay tuition at a crappy commuter college for third rate foreign language classes.

I have this thing.  Once I know a language, I get very aggravated at people tossing it around to look smart.  I'm worst with Latin, cause I pretty much got fluent in it (as fluent as you can get with something dead, anyway).  I have to sit on my hands every time someone on the internet can't spell per se.

Heh.

Are there many people who correctly use per se but can't spell it? That thought is vaguely terrifying.

I do my best to ignore spelling and obvious grammar errors when I encounter them, for my own sanity. My husband calls me a grammar nazi.

C.

Whoops. My mistake. I think I'll go and correct that actual post and not make a new one, since that might be a touchy subject for them. You know, their getting ripped off for paying for file space and everything.

It's "per say," dontcha know?  Sometimes one word, sometimes two.

I think it's one of those "I've heard it, but I've never seen it" things.  Most people spell it wrong, and I can't recall ever seeing it really used wrong.  It's really weird to me.

The one mistake that really, really bothers me, to the point of wanting to jab people with pointy sticks, is could of/should of etc.

I get that could've and could of sound vaguely similar, but could of just makes NO SENSE.

Now that one really drives me batty.

C.

That's bad.

I hate random apostrophe's...er, I mean, random apostrophes. :D  I think that's my worst thing in English errors.  When I was in college, I hung a print out of Bob the Angry Flower's Guide to Using the Apostrophe on my doors, and ninja added/removed apostrophes off of fliers (whatever made them CORRECT) with a Sharpie I kept in my backpack.

I didn't major in English or anything with tons of writing.  I majored in Biology.

Given the fact that someone is 'getting a headache' from people using 'big words,' I'm wondering how long it's going to be until the thread is locked just to simplify matters.  :roll:

However, I've got to say that it was nice to find a paysite that's actually allowing a discussion of the issue to take place on their forum. It's a start.  :)

Heh. I used to do that too.

C.

Good point! They don't allow linking to any forum that contains objectionable material, and MATY does contain Crammyboy's cock mod, so technically, linking anyone to anywhere on the site is bad. I think that may have slipped past their notice. *ponders*

I can say I have been lurking on this post and the board for the past couple of hours, and I too am a member of boolprop, although I am hoping by not using my username they won't catch on if they are watching this post  :lol: I have downloaded alot of the items you guys have, that I can't afford to donate to recieve. The site aims to be child friendly, not allowing children to post pictures, no foul language, and no adult type post, probably the reason as Denimjo said they will not allow the direct link, that and the "stealing" of files is frowned upon. Ah well, if I go to hell for ripping off creators at least I die happy. Yesss, I am free to CUSS!  :mrgreen:

I could be way off on this, but the mods there don't strike me as the types to ban someone from their own site just because they happened to have registered here.


Ah, good! Another looter-of-booty that hasn't cost the pay sites a dime!


At least they're allowing the discussion to take place, despite the fact that the site owner (Jennifer) has come right out and says that she disapproves of file-sharing. That's something that I can respect, since I've seen very little of that maturity on most Sims 2 sites (even some Sims 2 LiveJournals won't allow discussion of it or links (both direct and indirect) to forums like these).

I just feel that posting a link should be allowed, most of the people on boolprop are young kids who can't afford to pay for things...why not let them download pay stuff for free? I think alot of members wanted the link, but it wasn't allowed to share  :lol:

My simple solution to "child friendly" is that children are not allowed, because I hate kids. All users are required to convincingly pretend to be over 12. Says so in registration.

The reason they are probably getting a headache from all the big words is because most of the people you are "debating" with are a lot younger than you think and probably aren't used to it.

No, they won't ban you for that. Otherwise I would have been banned ages ago when I actually joined here.

The reason we don't allow posting a link on there, is because although Boolprop Sims is a donation site that has VERY occasional donation items to pay for hosting (whether you say we're paying over the odds or not - not your concern), your site could still affect ours and we chose not to allow posting the link.

PMBD is all over the simming community anyway - they'll find out about it another way sooner or later. Just not from us.

I figured as such, but when I mentioned that fact (about a poster's age and how she might not be familiar with the details of 'association,' she got rather pissy with me. Plus, I think that Drew wasn't too fond of the whole 'age-related discussion,' so I just dropped it.


I can respect your/their wishes on that matter as well.

ETA: Well, with Cel's latest fit  (http://forums.boolprop.com/viewtopic.php?p=269797#269797)about us, I expect this thread will get locked pretty soon. If anyone has anything else to add, you'd best do it quickly.

And I see Emma's at least a lurker here as well...*waves hi to Emma*.  What's the point of that anyway? Denimjo is not taking those thoughts to that thread, she's leaving them here, and is handling the debate there quite well and upholding everything you've asked of her.  Not that she needs any defense, but damn, you've got balls cross-quoting.  As a mod there, I would expect YOU to act with grace and dignity, and if you had a problem with what she is doing on YOUR board, to handle it as such.  She's not doing a damn thing wrong on YOUR precious board within YOUR guidelines.

What a FINE example of how to treat another member of your community that you are setting for your 13 year old and younger members with the way you are acting with that particular post.  /end sarcasm

As to who wants to consult a dictionary when they don't know a word *raises hand in the affirmative* I do.  Heck everyone I know does that.  If you aren't doing that, you are not exercising your mind and expanding your vocabulary, you are choosing to live in ignorance, you are choosing to be lazy, plain and simple.  With sites such as dictionary.com, answers.com, or with a browser such as Firefox, there's no reason whatsoever not to lookup whatever word you are unfamiliar with in less time than it takes to go grab a drink from the refrigerator these days!

Ugh, why should debates be simplified so that everyone can understand?  Why not, oh I dunno, expect that people with either, A) be informed enough to have an opinion, even if they aren't strong debaters, B) lurk at the thread until they CAN form an opinion from the information given there, C) go off-site, educate themselves on what the topic is about and then return to say something, or D) not say anything at all?

On random usage of foreign language: Omg, es bos fatuus!  :O

I'm taking Latin (because for some reason I have to take a language for two years) and I practise it on my friends at Myspace.  I don't, however, throw it around in public areas because I hate explaining myself, and when I do make a mistake using it, it just makes me mad.  Plus I like people to understand me, and since my sentence structures sometimes go a little crazy, I already have a hard enough time getting people to understand, much less myself.

It must be helluva boring debating people, for whom a "they worked hard on it therefore they must be paid" and -- this one is especially good -- "site A which is run by some dork I don't know can go die and I won't care,  but site B which is OMG cool (because I like it), now if you take their stuff you're a meanie!" are valid arguments.  And those obnoxious huge signatures, eeew!

As for big words, I wonder why they are so scary wi'dem  Fangirlese-babbling fanboys and fangirls aplenty there. :twisted:

Wow...she does seem angry  :shock: Ah well, I will go to hell with  my stolen files  and play the sims 2 in my eternal damnation   :lol:

Let them ALL go pay. And THEN we'll talk about "morals". Can't imagine what bitching and whining it would cause when everything went pay. Absolutely every single piece of CC. :lol:

Cel's first language obviously isn't English. But acting like every native English speaker should write so she can understand perfectly smacks of a rather massive sense of entitlement. Especially since I have problems understanding her, but I'd never get huffy about it, as English is not her first language.

(I was going to put the following in that discussion as well, but then figured it might really piss some people off. You never can tell what will set off moderators, especially in the Sims community.)

Quoting a different discussion on another site seems kind of dishonorable to me, especially when you have a policy against linking to the site where that discussion is taking place.

I'm with carysehlwinn on the vocabulary thing. This is how I write, and how I speak. I stopped "dumbing down" my language when I went to college, with an immense sigh of relief. I'm not trying to show off, but I'm not going to write to be understood by every person on the planet, no matter their age or knowledge of the English language. I will use the proper words for things, and won't try to second-guess whether other people understand them or not. I assume that they do, or know how to open a dictionary.

I don't pride myself on being a scholarly or particularly intelligent person because I'm not.
Although, I do have enough common sense to look up a word that I don't understand.
Why would you ever ask someone to dumb down their language?
If they use a word that you don't understand, you get a chance to learn a new word.

I dunno, I'd love to see that.

so paying for subscription fees will get you access to crammyboys cock? or the tiny pixel version?
not that i would pay for either one, but i know of some people who might lol
OpenLegs for one

*waves back*

Okay - for your first point - I'll admit I was seeing red at first, and have deleted that part of my post a while ago.

But I'm sorry, but what the heck is everyone HERE doing except for cross-quoting?!

As to THIS point... I think you should have read what I put properly first. I'm the first to admit that if I don't understand a word I'll go and look it up. My point was, that nobody wants to do that for every single post they read

Jesus.... every one is coming down on me like a f***ing ton of bricks lately.

Then they should learn more. Seriously. There was not one word quoted there that was terribly unusual. Don't want to feel like an ignoramus? Stop being an ignoramus then. (Hypothetically, that is; I'm not calling YOU an ignoramus.)



I don't see any bricks. I do see a lot of defensiveness. People don't mince words around here. It's not a place for the thin-skinned. When people around here get angry, we pretty much say what we think. Just like you just did. Refreshing, but you need to be able to take it as well as dish it out.

Yeah, but to give the second-language excuse is BS.  If you want to communicate in something that you're not fluent in, you have to accept the fact that there will be times you will know fuck all about what's going on in a conversation, and the onus is on YOU to go figure it out, or ask politely for help.

ETA:  I'm aware that you weren't the one who brought up ESL stuff, but...it's kinda annoying.  I'm understanding of nonnative speakers, when it comes to their own messages, or if they misunderstand me, but if they don't know a word, they need to look it up. :)

Hello, boolpropian Rubbersushi7 here, waving hello to all you... I dunno what they call this site's members. Anyway, I had a feeling Denim, :wink: sneaky little fox that she is, imported some friends to boolprop just for the sake of argument. I see Emma was/is here. Hi Emma! *waves* :D

Onto my point(?) thingy. I realise this site's forum is very different from Boolprop. You may or may not of smelled the over-powering odor of candy, rainbows, and sparkley goodness. Boolprop is a very friendly atmosphere, and I would sincerely appreciate it if you can keep the debate that way. Yes, I'm saying to cut off your balls and decorate it with glitter and marshmellows so that our three-year-old members can understand and take part in the debate. For it is an enriching experience, and an important topic.

No, the mods wont ban you if you're mean, although it pisses all of us off. I just came here to get down on my knees and ask you to be more kind, respectful, act less abhorrent to our members, and obey the rules of our forum, (although I don't believe you've broken any), so that it doesn't bring our squeaky clean community down. Something about rainbows, teddy-bears, and Santa.

Thanks! Wuv, (disgusting cutesy kissing noises)
Concerned Member of Boolprop

Alright... that was a generalised comment. I wasn't just meaning people here. I was talking about in RL too. So sorry. I will clarify in future.

Second, no you're right - I didn't bring up the thing about ESL. But to be fair - the person who Denimjo originally cross-quoted here (i.e. took the piss out of for not understanding the big words) was not complaining because English wasn't their first language either. They were just basically saying that at 13, they didn't know what things like culpable, altruistic, semantics, etc meant. As, I believe, I didn't at that age.

Third - Hi Sushi!

Should I be glad I never saw what Emma posted that she was angry about? I've honestly never had a problem with her (aka simsfunk), and I think she's one of the better moderators I've actually encountered, so if I've done or said something to bother you, Emma/simsfunk, I really am sorry about that. :(

And a big welcome to rubbersushi! I offer you greetings and a nice cup of eggnog and gingerbread cookies aplenty (in the shape of Peggy Hairs).  :D

Are we really that scary? "Big" words have been perceived as an "attack", apparently, and I sincerely hope no one is about to apologize for treating other people like they know how to read.

I registered at boolprop a long time ago, because I liked all the story threads. But I wasn't about to venture into the general area because I lack time, and because it didn't look like my kind of thing. Too many rainbow Santas (would that mean he had a Mr. Clause at home? Anyhow.) I greatly appreciate that they're actually letting people discuss this topic, and so I threw my opinion in, because I would hate for anyone to think it was an opinion of a small minority.

Since you are asking something of "us", something which "we" were already fulfilling as "we" broke zero rules and I didn't see anyone who came from HERE being mean over THERE, maybe slightly snipish in reaction to other peoples' (over)reactions, but not mean, I have a request as an individual who has absolutely no authority:

Stop coming here and lecturing us or very soon someone will be tempted to stick a candy cane where the sun don't shine.

Thank you and have a splendiferous day.

Denim: :wink: You should know how I feel about Christmas in November. But thanks all the same. >w> *googly eyes*

neriana: Pfft, as if I have any authority anywhere. And it's not the big words really, although they are large and fearful. It's more... I dunno, there seems to be a certain air of... What's the word? :o It's times like these I wish my mother didn't do drugs when she was pregnant with me. UmmUmmUmm! You know, that thing that you give off. Makes people angry at you. Anyway, I'm not the only one feeling it so it's not just me.

Denim, do you know the word I'm talking about? My point is kind of ruined if I can't remember what I was going to say. Do you think if I squint really hard it'll come to me? :x


:wink: Oh... Kinky.

Mean?  I wouldn't go that far, unless the people over there equate people disagreeing with them as people hating them, and being mean to them.  Just because I say, I think you're wrong, and here's why, doesn't mean I don't like you, or am being mean to you.  I'm simply disagreeing with you.  And yes, Denimjo posted the link to the thread from boolprop.com here, and people here went and read it.  And then, as we are wont to do, we defended our position.  I will admit, by posting a link here, she was certainly going to garner some support.  I mean, people who hang out here tend to be in favor of the issue at hand, it goes with the territory.  So maybe it was a bit unfair, in that regard, but we simply defend our position, and attempt to persuade others to see the issue from this angle.  There is nothing wrong with that.  I don't think anyone can really be accused of being "mean" in the boolprop.com thread.  If people are offended by our position, well, then there's little to be done about that.  They're just going to have to toughen up, and realize that not everyone shares the same moral and ethical views.

:lol: Am I a dog in heat? :wink: So many members jumping on me today.

I would like to point out that I never said anything Denim did was wrong. Nor, have I stated what side I take on this arguement. I just came here to ensure that the Boolprop forum isn't... What was I going to say? No! It'll come to me... Tainted with... something that taints. :o For we are the land of sugar-coated gum drops, lollipops and rainbows.

Honestly... I don't believe we've ever had debate, or anything like it this serious. I think the SimShrink forum is the only other place remotely serious, so this is quite the whatchucallet. Culture shock. :lol:

So.... just to clarify... you're allowed to come to OUR forum and say your piece, but we're not allowed to come here and do the same?! (And now you're moaning about us "lecturing" you??? What were you just saying to me about "don't dish it out if you can't handle it"!?)

:lol: Whoa... Emma. o__o Down, hun. You're scaring me. xD I've never seen you ticked. Don't let Miss Thang get to you, they're just the whatchucallet. Thing.

*pat pat* I too find what they say, contradictivenesslikethingyeah. It's very funny, laugh with me. o__o Laugh with me!

._. So very scared now.

edit: I just noticed someone named Crow and Bitsy has joined. Now if they are the same Crow and Bitsy from boolprop, I have no clue. xD I would just like to say, I came here of my own accord, and didn't even have the faintest clue that Emma was here until I started reading this thread. :lol: So this is in no way, a take over or attack on your forum. I repeat, this is not a hostile take over bent on destroying you and your loved ones.

I think I've created more alarm than needed by stating that. On a note to all my boolpropian friends, whachu doin' hur? O.o

Of course you are. But I didn't go to your forum and tell you how to run it, or tell your members how to behave. I just stated what I thought about the issue in the thread there and went on my merry way. I wasn't even responding directly to what anyone else had posted in the thread; if you'll notice, it was a straight cut n' paste from a post I made here a while ago. I'm lazy that way, repeating myself bores me. And of course you're "allowed" to do whatever you damn well please. Just as I'm allowed to be annoyed by it. But I haven't been annoyed by you. You're straightforwardly angry, and I can respect that.

As for rubbersushi: you are irritating. See how easy that is? Now, you can say what you like to me, straight out, you don't need all that passive-aggressive crap. Or maybe you do, I wouldn't know.

Could be. BoolProp tends to be very pro about that sort of thing.

As far as I can see you guys are just adults talking like adults would to other adults, but you're talking to kids who are used to being addressed as kids. Its intimidating. It's also not your fault that they feel intimidated and I wouldn't worry about it. I think with the variety of posts that were made there were enough dumbed down that even a sixth grader should get it. If they don't like it, they can avoid the thread. No ones forcing them to read it. So, you're not being mean, you're being adults. To a kid that can mean much the same thing.

Right now I am just glad the discussion is going on, that information is being made public and that people can go there, read it, and draw their own conclusions without being brow beat into thinking one way or another by an admin or mod. Some public community that was not originally involved needed to take the step to not censor this issue and get it out there for the Sims 2 community to decide on with all the facts at their disposal. I'm proud of the fact that BoolProp had the balls to step up to the plate.

I don't know why you're being so agressive.

Boolprop means a lot to me, and I just hope that it'll be the same boolprop after this. That is my one concern, and the only reason I've come here. To ensure that Boolprop stays the way it is. Denim, and Emma probably understand my concern a lot more.

---edit---

Glittering and smelling of candy and rainbows as they are. Sorry, I can't help myself. Nice post, and Hi Bitsy.

I don't think anyone is being particularly aggressive. They're just disagreeing, there is a big difference.

I don't see how you hope to ensure Boolprop stays the way it is by posting here. What do you think you can achieve by this?

And, seriously, Boolprop means a lot to you and you don't want it to change? It's a Sims 2 community, if it changes and you don't like it, stop going, find somewhere else to go or stop spending time on Sims sites. I enjoy spending time here and at MATY, but I honestly wouldn't care that much if I couldn't any more. It's a community based around a game.

I have quite a bit to say, so here's my two cents:

I am most surely for PMBD, although I haven't expressed this opinion on Boolprop, nor in other places, as many of my friends feel quite strongly the other way.

I believe that this debate is appropriate for Boolprop, and that there's nothing wrong with members from here signing up there. After all, if they're being talked about on Boolprop, then they have a right to see it, just like Boolprop members have every right to come here, and read this.

When I read the thread at Boolprop, I felt that some people were being quite agressive, but I understand that's merely a style of debating. What I think some people don't realize, however, is that this style of debating can be seen as a personal attack, rather than someone just trying to prove a point, or convince someone of something.

The thing with first names is quite simple - at Boolprop most people prefer to be called by their names, and I know I consider it somewhat rude when people I know know my name call me by my username. It seems somewhat impersonal to me, although I'm used to be addressed in person where people know my name, so it's mostly a matter of conditioning.

I would be one of those teenagers you talk about being taken advantage of, but I believe that I'm not. No one is pulling wool over my eyes - nor over any of the other member's. Boolprop gets millions of hits a month, so it's natural they would have to pay more, for better hosts. They crashed the servers of sort of host you're talking about, hence the 'Boolprop Blackout' as site members semi-affectionately call it.

Oh, and for those of you who are interested, my username on Boolprop is JustMe, but I couldn't use it here, as someone already had it.

Sorry, but isn't neriana calling me out? That's not a disagreement, that's an open invitation for some kind of confrontation.

I think of myself as a big sister to a lot of our members. And as I big sister, childish and annoying as I am, I feel a certain responsibility. If some friends of mine come to me and say, "Hey, so and so, blah blah blah". I feel a need to step up and ask whoever, whatever they're doing, to cool down. Which I did. But if certain objectors, feel the need to knit pick and get all defensive, don't you think I'm gonna try to defend myself or restate what I was trying to say?

Anyway, what was I going to say. Oh, Boolprop. Don't mess with Boolprop. :x You don't understand the passion! Or something along those lines. Now I'm going to get all gushy, and go on about how Boolprop really is a community in every sence of the word. And place where people are kind and so on and so forth. I don't think I need to explain any further, and I'm not sure how to end whatever I just said.

I repeat: I have never stated my opinion on the debate. Nor have I said that any of you are wrong, or have broken any rules. I just came over, to ask if you'd play nice. No need to jump on me and get all defensive.

They are playing nice, really.

None of them have made personal attacks, or even said anything remotely malicious, on Boolprop. They've merely debated to the best of their ability, and expressed their opinions in a mature manner.

^0^ Hello misc boolpropians whos names I am far to lazy to mention!



100 percent  :roll: I know alot of forums that wouldn't have been able to handle it.

Anywho-
I'm pretty sure Sushi means, change for the better. Everyone knows boolprop is going change eventually, but there is always a chance it could be for the worse. If Sushi feels she can prevent it from becoming worse in any way by signing up here then thats her choice ^^

As for if boolprop just shut down one day...well I would be upset O_o Boolprop is kind of a rarity among forums, maybe you could call it "Glittering and smelling of candy and rainbows" but the people there are generally nice and I like that better than most forums =] it is nice to see one like this though xD oh yesh. I can see myself coming to a forum with these kind of rules, had it not been made in favor of something I was against ^_^

I have no idea why I signed up here, maybe its just because a fair amount of you are on boolprop and I felt intitled ^0^ oh well, I'll be lurking.  :) I have big love for debates.

No, she's not calling you out, she's being honest and asking the same from you. Here people tell others if they don't like them, they don't mince words.

Ky, I'm sure she did mean 'change for the better', but they still have a somewhat valid point =/.

It would be somewhat different, if members from here were flooding the forum with posts with adult content, swearing, and making inappropriate implications.

Really, all they're doing is debating, albeit in a style Boolprop is somewhat unfamiliar with.

I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't her choice, I just don't understand how she thought posting here would help, that's all.

Okay. Thanks, for clearing that up MMEStalker.

Neriana, I don't have a problem with you. So, I dunno what you're talking about. And I'm fine that you have a problem with me. I actually find that extremely funny.

edit:

Well, I thought that because everyone here are adults. Well I assume you are all adults since some of you said so back at boolprop. You would understand my concern about handling the debate in a different manner. Not changing your opinion, but doing so in a way that it's not so... I don't want to say intimidating, because that's not the word I'm looking for. But, basically it's what Bitsy said, you are all adults debating with children. So please, keep that in mind.

And I apologise for not being clear. I'm not what you call, a thinking person. And it takes me a while to remember what I want to say.

Yesh wifey I know xD(Aimed at justliz, sorry I didnt expect the topic to move so quickly)

The thought whole "changing" thing was aimed at the debate, because a debate CAN change a forum even if it is within the rules =/

I think boolprop can handle it though =] despite weeding through a bit of rudeness in the debate(from both sides) everyone has done a good job of stating their views, and taking others views into consideration.

EDIT: I didn't mean to imply that it wasnt her choice...I even debated using the word "choice" but I couldnt think of a better one ^_^;

I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't her choice, I just don't understand how she thought posting here would help, that's all.

It's like talking to another kid's parent. I guess, you expect things to change a bit, after you talk to them.

Although... Now I'm not so sure.

I'm going to twist your words somewhat, but:

How did you think posting at Boolprop would help?

I didn't, and I didn't post anything there. I can't speak for the people who did.

Not quite a vaild point JustLiz. No one posting at boolprop was trying to change how boolprop members behaved at PMBD.
I can understand that sushi might be nervous about her little flock, but as the forum is open to all, there is only so much that can be done to protect them. In this matter the wolves were only pirates come to make their heads spin by using big words and well reasoned arguments. I know I would never have coped with an argument I wasn't supposed to agree with at that age, but then, I would not have been let loose on the internet either.
They cannot be protected forever and the thread whose very existence is a sign of maturity at boolprop is a relatively kind way to expose them to the big bad wolves.
Sushi: you really don't want to see some of the people here when they are being not nice (because there's a difference between that and not being nice).

I appoligize then, I didn't think to check to see if you had.


I can see the logic here as well, and although you're going to think I'm avoiding responsibility for what I say, I'm merely going to comment that I'm having difficulty thinking, as I've got an awful headache.

I rather like the people of MATY and PSMBD (pretty close to being the same group anyway).  No, they aren't fluffy and sweet all the time, but from lurking at both forums for a while now, I can say that for the most part I think the people from here and MATY are intelligent, humorous, and honest.  I'd rather be around this bunch than people who are forced to be nice, just because everywhere else on the Internet there are "mean" people.

I still think it's ridiculous to tell people to dumb it down.  I love learning new words.  And god forbid, if I'm too lazy to highlight and click on over to Dictionary.com, it's usually very easy to figure out what a word means via context.  And if I have no idea what's going on, I don't drop a post in the middle of the thread, crying that I don't understand and you're all too smart for me--I just don't post at all!  Simple concept.  It's stupid to derail a thread just because you fail to understand what's going on.  I'm pretty much brain-dead when it comes to war talk and most political debates, but I feel no desire to pitch a fit when I don't understand what's going on.  S2C, while open to 13 years of age and up, doesn't force people to dumb down debates--why?  Because it's expected that in the debates, you can hold your own, understand what's going on, and understand that people will have aggressive debating styles.  And despite that, S2C is still pretty damn full of sheep and forced niceties.

Anyway, I'm not about to join another forum just for one thread on one topic.  I don't see the point, and it seems to me that the people there debating against the majority opinion are doing just fine without me chiming in and essentially repeating what was already said.  If I'm going to join a forum, I want to be able to participate on a daily basis, and I'm just not digging the impression I'm getting here.

Everyone knows what's already being said in favour of paysites--it's the only opinion you can have in public on most places.  But against paysites and for filesharing?  Can't have that opinion in most places--hell, it'll get you banned in some cases.  So yeah, I can see why people are going to Boolprop just to post their opposing opinion, because it's just one more place where people can go and see people express both sides of the debate, and not a series of closed threads stating that it must never be talked about, that the official stance of the site is that we're a bunch of assholes who are trying to destroy the Sims community.  Most people here already see both sides, and, meh, what difference does it make if there's another handful of people that don't agree with what's being done here?

(And while I was typing this, I bet a hundred and three posts were made, and I DON'T CARE.  Forums always move faster than I can think.  :x)

I think it was only mentioned being that the thread is a debate =] like you said, if you have no idea whats going on you wouldnt post. Most people are with you on that. =P More people will respond if posters with a vast vocabulary "dumb" themselves down. If you don't mind less response to what you say, then its all good. If you just wish to state your opinion and leave with no debate inbetween then dumbing youself down wouldnt be neccisary. Dumbing yourself down for the sake of debate may however, be needed considering the larger age group of boolprops members are in middle school =/

not saying you cant understand whats going on if your in middle school xD JustLiz is only 13 and has a wonderful vocabulary as well as a fabulous understanding of words. I'm only saying in most instances, its harder for the age group in question to understand the more advanced words.

I was just about to ask where all of the love went, but I read Ensign's post and felt better.

Ensign brings the love back!

Love?  What is this love you speak of?  :wink:

I would rather see a handful of posts that actually mean something and are part of the debate, than pages upon pages of posts that aren't really contributing to a thread because they're focusing on other things like not being able to understand or trying to explain things other than what pertains to the topic at hand.  Sometimes things just don't need fifty pages of discussion, and I rarely start topics, but if a discussion naturally comes to an end after two pages for whatever reason, so be it.

Unless it's MATY or PSMBD, then you know all the good stuff is on the longer topics because by the time it hits page five or ten, it's already derailed into something fun and interesting.  :P  Or disturbing, but whatever, man.

(Edited because articles are for WUSSES.  'Cause they aren't used in Latin and whatnot.  SHUT UP.)

I've read all of the thread in question, and I seem to be missing these 'more advanced words'. I'll be honest, I can't fully put my self in the shoes of these kids that you think are having trouble understanding, as I had an adult reading age before I left first school, but I do remember many instances of not understanding something, and I always looked it up or asked someone, whether it was a word, a phrase, a debate or something else. This still happens to me now and always will as no one can be well informed about everything, learning new things is part of life. Surely it's good for younger players to have this sort of interaction with us, having to argue my views with older better informed people has taught me a lot, it was a vital part of my education. I guess I don't understand why you think those here who have posted there, shouldn't do that, I don't see how it can be bad.

For them to "learn things" on their own would mean taking on a responsibility for themselves. In todays world? Not likely.

That makes me a sad pirate, but it's true. Society these days tends to shy away from anything related to responsibility.

I agree with that completely =] however when there are alot of posts using a plethora of words you dont know...well...people tend to back down rather than look up 20 words =/ I can see were you are coming from though. I have always had a high reading level xP mostly because I'm a reading dork, but younger members might be intimidated and not post which would make the idea of debate useless ^0^ I wouldnt want to dumb myself down either, but Ive spent so much time with younger members of the forum that I just get used to it.

Eh, some do, some don't.

Lumping people into one group never creates an accurate statement.

I usually try not to generalize like that. Rephrase:

A lot of people these days tend to shy away from anything related to responsibility.

Snobbishness? Elitism? Better-than-thouism? I don't agree with the sentiment, but I'm just suggesting words that might mean what you're thinking.

But you know, I used to hang out at BoolProp quite a bit. Then, of course, when it was overrun by younger and younger (and oftentimes near-illiterate) members, it stopped becoming as fun for me so I didn't go there as often (this is not a knock on the members at BoolProp; it's just a comment that my personal taste for the site itself had changed). But I did like it a lot at one point, so I can understand why people (i.e. rubbersushi and Emma/simsfunk) wouldn't want it to change (especially for the worse).

And for whoever derided them for the possibility of the site going bye-bye for some reason and them being upset over it: well, I'm thinking if MATY suddenly disappeared, you'd probably be a little bit upset about that too, despite the fact that it's 'just a forum about a game.' Please don't mock people for their affection for their favorite sites. No one's saying you have to like what they do, but I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't ridicule or dismiss other people's opinions and likes as 'less worthy' or 'unimportant.'

Unless it's pro-incest. Then you can mock all you want.  8)

That I can whole heartedly agree with.

I wouldn't be upset at all, I was a regular poster on a forum about something that meant a lot more to me than the Sims 2 does, and when it died I can honestly say it didn't bother me in the slightest. I don't think that everyone should feel that way too, but I'm sorry, I'm not going pretend I don't think that's a silly way to be about a website, I like the fact I can be honest here, and one of the things I can be honest about is that I think a lot of people take this game and its communities too seriously. I don't imagine that all of the people here agree with me about that, I don't care, I can accept that. But you've asked me (very politely, thank you for that) not to express that view and I'm not going to oblige. I didn't 'dismiss' her opinion, I thought about it, didn't agree with it and said as much.

Dear god, that was epic. I don't think there's anything I can say that hasn't already been said, Boolprop isn't entirely to my tastes, and as such, the mannerisms of a lot of the members irriate me, so I won't go there either, but as far as the big words thing goes...
I have a good vocabulary, always have done, however, if there's a word I don't understand, I skip over it, plain and simple. I'll look at the context it's used in, to help me out, if I'm really stuck over what it was the other person was trying to say, but USUALLY context doesn't steer one wrong. I've never found myself in a situation where I've been reading something, not understood a word, and then been lost. I might be all like 'What the FUCK, that person's talking out of their arse, they made that word up!!' but still always kept track of what was the...thing. I just don't feel it's a valid thing to pick people up on.

Also, I want to marry Ensign. Although, I dunno if that's legal where she is, and I'm prolly too old for her.....>.>

Everything is legal in North Dakota.  Except progress and evolution.  And anything that has anything to do with cities.  They hate businesses here.

I would be... upset-ish if MATY or any forum I visited more than twice disappeared, but mostly because I tend to be out of the loop and would miss the hacks until I found them again.  It wouldn't be the end of my world, I guess.  I dunno.

And that's all anyone can ask for, really.

I don't believe that it would be the end of anyone's world, merely that they would be upset about it.

North Dakota, eh? I've recently developed a slight obsession with Fargo, due to extensive reading of Lileks.com...

Far as being upset if a community I frequent dies, I would be upset. When this place becomes obselete, for example, I might well shed a figurative tear, but that's more than partly because everyone can speak so very freely here, and for a common cause, with a common understanding, and generally a similar mentality, there isn't even as much freedom as this at MATY. After my figurative tear has dried, I'll likely be bored for a day or two. Then I'll move on. This place, and in my opinion, MATY, are special, not through any particular sentimentality on my part, but what they represent...

Hmmm, does anyone happen to have a link to wherever it's stated that people are allowed to charge users only a minimal amount to cover bandwidth usage only in EA's EULA? I can't seem to locate that proviso anywhere.

"You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for EA's products, provided this is beneficial to the product(s) in EA's judgment, and provided that if you do so, you must also post the following notice on your site on the same web page(s) where those materials are located: "This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or its licensors. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors. All Rights Reserved." You will not represent that your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors or that any other content on your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors."

Hmmm I think you're right. I don't see where it says you can charge anything at all, let alone turn it into a business.

There's another one somewhere, I think it came with Homecrafter, I believe it says something about being allowed to charge for site upkeep....possibly. I may be mistook...

Well I already mentioned it on Boolprop but since Denimjo thinks its in bad taste I will say it here aswell =]

Boolprop is not exploiting niave teenage members, if you check the trophy list you will see that only one member that has donated was a teen(that person being NovaMiniMan)..of course you would have no way of knowing that without knowing the members of the site though  :wink:

What I said was in bad taste was your "quoting" someone that made comments on a forum that cannot be linked to, thus things like 'context' and 'exact wording' (and even 'person who actually said it') cannot be verified by anyone else (save for those that find their way here, of course).

I was thinking "vibe". Which goes along with what I said earlier.

Just a thought about the use of "big" words; english is not my first language, I'm not able to speak nor write it very well, but I noticed that I tend to use often "big" or "difficult" words because they're more similar to corresponding "normal" terms in my language.
For example, almost all the terms listed by Denimjo in this post (http://forums.boolprop.com/viewtopic.php?t=14190&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=161) as being difficult are understood by me at first sight, being them the exact transposition of the corresponding italian usual terms (i.e. prerogative = prerogativa, negate = negare, incentive = incentivo, phenomenon = fenomeno, and so on).
Maybe, it's all about the latin origin of our language, and it also would explain why for me it's often easier to read something wrotten in english by e.g. a german person rather than an english one.

$200 a month is highway robbery!

I use GoDaddy for my hosting, and it costs $40/year for 250gb of bandwidth per month.

They want a dedicated server?  Go them.  But they should not be asking for donations for something that is entirely optional.  For christsake, aren't they only a forum?

See, now there's the problem with people accusing others of using 'big words.' If you define a word that everyone knew the meaning of, they'll think you're trying to make them look stupid for thinking they didn't know that word.

lol most of the members(or at least the ones in the debate thread) are lurking here/are members =] but yeah I can see what you mean. I'm just a lazy bum and didnt feel like bringing up the browser to do it here too xD



Actually they are a forum, a dowload site, have their own magazine, and also host a member run graphics site.

Latin is awesome.  :o  It's my easiest class, despite the overwhelming number of freshmen that seem to have difficulty grasping some of the content.  Everyone should take Latin for at least a year, some time in their public education.  Easy peasy stuff, and it does help majorly with the vocabulary.

So now they can't really argue that all ESL people are stupid when it comes to English, when lingual roots are taken into consideration.

I apologize for making it sound as though I thought anyone was taking advantage of anyone else, as I don't think it intentional.  But the fact remains, you guys are being ripped off, whether you want to admit it or not.  I'm sure whatever plan you have works for you, and I don't fault people for wanting to donate to a site they like and appreciate.  But at the same time, I think the site owners could be saving a lot of money, and not have the need to ask for donations, or charge for certain download sets, like they do now.  But whatever, it's their life.  If they want to spend that kind of money to upkeep an internet site, then that's their business, I suppose.

WTF? $200 a month? For THAT? What the hell? How the hell does that shitty excuse for a site run $200 a month? You know how much shit I could get for $200 a month? That site's membership and size level looks roughly comparable to MATY, which means the cheapest plan. That's *$5* a month. Where the hell do they get a figure 40x that? Either they're being ripped off outrageously, or that site is a scam and grossly exaggerates its costs to solicit their "donations". Either way, something stinks.

From what I have gathered, J.M. Pescado's total outlay is $13 a month for 2 popular websites. One just hit 3 TB in transfer overhead. Why does a silly little MS Paint powered recolor site need more money than that?

I started debating on the 'net at 15 (in Dawsons Creek, heh) and it was the best way for me to learn. If you're surrounded by rainbows and sparkly shit its an even bigger shock when you go to a forum and are ripped apart. The debate that's on Boolprop was simillar to the debate I faced against the other adults and I never had an issue keeping up with them.

I think assuming the younger kids can't debate is quite insulting to them.

Nobody said they couldn't debate. We were simply stating that they may not understand some of the larger words used that's all.

I'm still on a search for the mention of bandwidth usage in any of EA Games' EULAs, but am having no luck. I'm starting to think that's actually just a rumor and is more one of those fan-created 'rules' that sounds like it could be true but actually isn't.

That sounds extremely likely  :roll:

In which case, that would mean no one is allowed to charge any money at all, and the reasoning tht pay site owners have for accepting payment for their creations (to cover 'bandwidth') is irrelevant.

I recall Twain from MATY recently posted there saying that if that was really their costs, they were paying a ridiculous amount, pointed them at some better hosts and so on. They didn't want to know, told him off for daring to join there just to say that, and insisted that that was their costs, and there was nothing cheaper. Which I found mildly fishy, and more than a little rude, given that, okay, it was Twain, he never comes across as a friendly helpful sort of chap, but he did have so pretty damn helpful suggestions there.

You can't really consider Boolprop a paysite.  For the most part it's a forum there's one post saying that the primary admin is footing the bill for the site and that if anyone wants to contribute please do, they don't beg for money or poor mouth.  The downloads area is relatively new and they have 1 pay package on boolprop sims that costs $5, why they decided to charge for anything there I have no idea, I believe it was more of a test than anything else.  I'd be surprised if more than 10 people have purchased it.  

Boolprop had a blackout period last spring when the shared host pulled the plug with no warning.  They had the new hosting set up fairly quickly so I'm sure they didn't put a large amount of research into it but the concern at the time was  more about stability than cost.  It still is, they know they pay more than they could but they are happy with the package and the service they have, again they don't beg for donations.

The only thing that irks me about this "debate" is the ban on posting this sites information.  The claim that PMBD has adult content is bs, boolprop has a fansite list that contains links to tons of sites that have adult content on them.  They want to claim kid friendly but really what's kid friendly about boolprop is that they let kids be members and allow them to get away with being brats in the off topic areas.

Hey, we might act bratty, but at least we're polite about it.

Hah. No it isn't. Have you looked around yet? :lol:

The claim that they won't allow PMBD to be linked or mentioned due to adult content is BS based on what they do allow to be linked and mentioned on the site in general.

Ah, I get it now.

I think they are coming from the aspect of adult language on this board, sites keep certain content hidden and you don't have to click on it. Well, same with a link I suppose, but they aim to protect younger members.  And in general they do not agree with file sharing, hence another reason the site cannot be linked. I am a member of boolprop, but do choose to remain nameless merly because I am a chicken shit  :lol:

Tiptoeing around PSMBD, calling it THAT site or the site that must not be named or those other sites, will only make people curious, and they will find their way here.  This isn't a very covert site.  Anyone who really wanted to see it will find it, so why pussyfoot around it and treat it like it's some unspeakable thing just because people are filesharing?

And really, what are the other sites gonna do to you if they ever find out you're here (apparently I'm not awesome enough to get banned from sites)?  I suppose I don't have much issue because I'm more of a lurker anyway and I go to very few sites that require registration in order to download things.

Even the official BBS allows you to link here.  Well, links here haven't been deleted, anyways.  It's certainly not a secret that this site exists, and people who want to find it will, whether you provide them with a link or a name or not.  People who don't wish to download or particiapate here won't bother.

I am withdrawing any defense I had for Emma/simsfunk. I have received two nasty PMs from her that included the continual accusation of file-sharers hacking, personal insults and using vulgar language that is supposed to be off-limits for that board (not to mention the unmitigated nerve of some of her raging attacks against myself). I cannot respect a  moderator from a "child-friendly" site who chooses to act in such a fashion.

I would have expected such a petty and illogical message from the BBS (and the language from here, quite frankly), but not at a site that claims that their moderators are friendly and "fair."

ETA: Yes, I'm pissed, but only at Emma; not at the other moderators/admins.

Aww, that really sucks. I was hoping people would finally be able to remain civil about this.

I don't understand why this issue continually devolves into a personal issue. It's not like we're poking babies with sticks (well, I dunno what Pescado does with his free time) or robbing little old ladies of their pensions.

C.

It's not just this issue. It's the nature of the internet; when you disagree with people, some of them will feel personally attacked. If you were to disagree with them irl, you'd probably back off really quickly because you wouldn't want to deal with this outwardly normal person who becomes a raving lunatic as soon as s/he is contradicted. But on the internet, we don't see the warning signs, and it's a lot easier to keep pushing an issue. People who usually aren't subjected to conflicting opinions because of the way they act in real life never had to grow a thick skin, nor do they have the normal social barrier to keep them from saying precisely what they please to anyone who disagrees with them.

It all comes down to the fact that some people feel personally attacked and insulted whenever anyone disagrees with them.

At least that's my theory.

Considering that there seems to be a desire to keep people as innocent as possible, to dumb down debates, your hypothesis doesn't sound that far off, Neriana.  :?

This is kind of a silly issue to be getting so upset and personal about.

I dunno, I love arguing with raving lunatics myself. But I think that's just a normal side effect from five years working in call centres.

C.

Never argue with a crazy ma... erm... Nevermind

Some people cannot stand having proof of their hypocrisy laid out for everyone to see. If they can't defend themselves or their position to their satisfaction, they get hysterical and revert to personal attacks because they have no more reasons to support their position(s).

I've still yet to see anyone give a satisfactory answer as to why exactly pay site owners can freely ignore the EULA without being thought of as immoral but when others treat them with the same disregard, they're thought of as 'wrong.'

Because they never read it in the first place. While their ignorance doesn't mean they can get away from it, they might not have known what they are doing is wrong in the first place.

I think paysite owners know full well what they are doing, hence why they call it a "donation". :roll:

Now that's a good point. I should try to make it my mission to inform every pay site owner that they're violating the EULA by selling Sims 2 custom content. Let's see how many sites I can get banned from! Does anyone have any bets as to how many will ban me immediately rather than either ignore me or respond in any manner?

However, if they're permitted to use ignorance as an excuse, so should people who share their files. If they don 't read the 'terms' from the creator, they can't be blamed for sharing the files against their wishes, right? ;)


I also believe that, but it's not really provable unless said site pay site owner/creator admits it; anyhoo, see my earlier point. If they claim ignorance of the EULA, they can't fault anyone else for claiming the same thing regarding distributing their content.

I prefer flagrantly defying them. It makes them that much more angry, and I find this incredibly amusing.

For some it as someone else has already posted--they just can't have a civil disagreement without going into seahag mode and pitching a fit.  For others, I think it's different reasons--or additional ones.

The paysite owners have found a way to make some cash--maybe a little, but in some cases I think it's Quite A Lot of money--and it's not only easy but it's fun. Not like work at all, really.  Now someone wants to interfere with that and the paysite owners don't like it.  Of course they take it personally because, for some of them at least, it means that if they lose this fight they might have to get off their personal asses and find themselves some real jobs.

Of course, some people are simply assholes and no other explanation for their behavior is really needed.

YOU LYING BITCH.

If this forum is no holds barred then fine. Let's damn well have at it.

NOT ONCE did I accuse this site of stealing or hacking. NOT ONE DAMN TIME.

See this is your problem, Denimjo. You read what you what you want to read and understand what you want to and that's it. End of story. Then, when you don't get your own way, you go running to Admin to lodge a complaint. Do you REALLY believe they're going to listen to you over me!??!

I posted my PMs and your replies ver batum in the Mod Forum immediately I received your last reply and everyone who has read them so far has agreed that I did NOT say anything accusing this site of hacking and/or stealing and that you somehow, gradually got to that conclusion yourself.

In fact, and you KNOW this to be true and anyone who comes to Boolprop can see it in my post history, I have DEFENDED the site against anyone who HAS accused the site of stealing. So don't talk such CRAP.

As for the personal insults... what were they exactly?!??! When I said that you really do go "all out" with your replies!!??! Or when I told you not to talk to me like my mother?!?!

And there is NO RULE on Boolprop.com to stop people cursing via PMs so don't try that again.

And just to prove a point... exactly what have you done?!?! You've run to your friends again, telling tales.

You're pathetic Denimjo (there's your personal insult).

And as for everyone else here, when you know the full story, THEN you can comment.

I haven't seen any messages. Where is the proof of these accusations? My theory is that Denimjo misinterpreted the comments. This is not unexpected, Denimjos have been known to be rather stupid. I want to see proof one way or another.

I haven't made any accusations.... this is what I'm trying to say.

Whether you're joking or not with the last part of your post Pescado, I don't know... but I didn't accuse this site of anything. I actually started the whole mess off by saying I was 100% behind the site and the file-sharing.

Okay... the PMs are to follow....

I didn't say you did. You did accuse Denimjo of lying, though. Given that we know Denimjo is kind of stupid, are you sure the situation is not more easily explained by stupidity than malice?

Erm... YOU all might know Denimjo like that - I certainly don't, and given what she has accused ME of, I think one accusation of her lying is very small in comparison...

Here are the PMs.

The only thing I have removed is some information about linking to MATY which is irrelevant to this. Denimjo should, I hope, testify to this...
_______________________________________
Me to her:

Okay,

First things first... I just want you to know, I am ALL for PMBD!! I have never had any kind of problem with them. I think what they are doing is fine... (although if it turns out they ARE "stealing" the stuff from the creators to put up at the site, that's probably not such a great thing!)

I've never had a problem with filesharing... I'll be honest - I have paid for subscriptions at Peggy and RoseSims before, which I can afford to do, and shared the files with people I like and trust who I know CAN'T afford to do so. So - there we go. There is my official view on filesharing out in the open (well with you anyway!! :lol:)

However, I'm completely confused as to how all this crap has come about on the other forum. I don't quite understand why you had to go over there and essentially take the piss out of all of us there. (which is what I was upset with you about by the way...)

I was a little miffed about how you handled it, and made members on Boolprop look immature. And now, Boolpropians keep thinking they have to go over there and defend or fight or whatever and it's getting a little out of hand...

I have never had a problem with you. I certainly don't WANT to have a problem with you (you should have seen the PM I almost sent yesterday!!:oops: ) and I know that none of us AdMods want to lock the debate thread, but we need to get both threads (here AND at PMBD) under control somehow... and they don't seem to like listening to me.
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Her to Me

You are, of course, entitled to think that, despite all evidence to the contrary.


The only reason I asked people over there to come and post here was because Drew said that he didn't want to see one person (i.e. me) continuing to respond to everyone else, so I asked people at that site to come and back me up. I figured that most people would be respectful enough on this site to be polite in their messages, and they have been. However, what people choose to say on other forums is, quite frankly, not something that should be brought up here since that site is not allowed to be linked to, and thus misinformation about who said exactly what about anyone else in what context can't be publically displayed.


Here's the thing: you can't really stop anyone from googling the site and finding in on their own, nor can you stop anyone from joining to respond to that thread there either. You just have to trust that the members of this forum are mature enough to conduct themselves in a respectful way, even if other people won't, because that's the kind of site PMBD is: rude, brash, up front and honest. There's no false niceness or fake sincerity there, since no one is threatening to punish anyone for being not nice (and by punish I mean warn, ban or the like). I'm not saying the way this forum is run is wrong, it's just radically different than the way PMDB's forum is.


There's the thing: you can't make anyone do what you ask them to do (notice how on PMBD I asked someone to stop ragging on you and rubbersushi and they flatly said 'no.' That's all you can do, really). What I suggest you do is make a public request here on this site about what you would like to see people do or not do (bearing in mind that no one is under any obligation to follow your requests) and then just leave it alone. You don't have any authority over there, and eventually people are going to lose interest in both threads and the whole thing will die down.

And I'd like to know why precisely you were (or are) pissed off at me in the first place.  :?

The last thing I'd want to see happen is to have the thread here locked because of something that's happening at an entirely different (and unrelated) forum.
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Me to Her

   
I'm assuming here that you're saying evidence against them stealing... I did NOT say they were. I did not say that I THINK they are... You're putting words in my mouth here. I just said IF. I don't know how they're getting hold of the custom content that's all.


As this is a private message, fine. I'm pissed off because you went over there, and made a mockery of the people here - which started off the whole "big words" debate... Rolling your eyes because somebody said they had a headache about the big words... I didn't think there was any need for that. THAT's what pissed me off.
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Her to Me


It's been stated several times how people have been getting the content, Emma. There are people that donate for the items and then choose to take the files they have received and share them with other people. There is no "stealing" involved in any way. That's actually where the 'sharing of personal information' factoid came into play: pay sites are sharing information like real names, addresses, phone numbers, usernames, etc. with other paysites to try to figure out who's sharing the files.


Well, it's certainly your decision to get all pissed off because I chose to display my irritation at someone's comments elsewhere and not on this site. You can also continue to think I was "mocking" people over here if you'd like as well; since you obviously want to believe that, I'm not going to waste my time trying to inform you otherwise.

You know what I think would help you out a lot? Forget about what's happening over there; concentrate on what's being said here. This forum and that forum are run two totally different ways, and it takes quite the adjustment to go from one extreme (everyone is sweet and pleasant and chirpy) to the other (people are unabashedly rude, upfront and in-your-face about their feelings).
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Me to Her


Good grief. You really go all out when you're responding to stuff don't you?!

I said I didn't know where they were getting their stuff for the site from. I have said to Jenn on this site (in plain view so I KNOW you have seen me) on many occasions that you can't go accusing people of stealing... In fact I think I also said in the main forums that, ALTHOUGH I didn't know, I believed that people who had donated were simply sharing what they donated for.

Just because I haven't seen the EXACT places where they state where they are getting their content from does not mean I am saying that they are stealing. I didn't think they were. It is not your job to jump to their defence.


I AM however, aware of this. I even asked them at PMBD for their help, but they didn't give me any. They didn't even respond to my post. So how benevolent should I be exactly???

How about taking some of your OWN advice and not running to your friends for help. You asked to have a debate on Boolprop, you got one. You were the one who brought the other forum into it.
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Her to Me

Maybe I should now amend my previous statements about you. I didn't have a problem with you before; you've certainly made me have one with you now with your unnecessarily pissy attitude and leaps of logic. *sigh*


No, what you said was you didn't know how they were getting their stuff. There is a big difference there. Allow me to quote your previous post:



What did you ask, where did you ask it and how long have you waited for an answer? These are all rather important details you need to offer before I'm going to feel sympathetic with you in the least.


For the love of...*headdesk* One of the moderators on this site (Drew) was the one who said he was getting tired of one person responding to all of the criticisms, and that was the only reason I asked other people to chime in. I was doing just fine on my own until he said that. If you have an issue with that, bring it up with Drew and not me. Here's something that might actually help you understand everything that's going on: read the whole frickin' thread!!! *facepalm*

Now you're really starting to piss me off, Emma. Where is all of this attitude coming from?
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Me to Her

I don't really give a toss how you feel about me.

I'm not asking for your sympathy!?!?! I was just stating a fact. But just since you ask, and since for some inane reason I always feel the need to justify myself:

1) I asked whether they thought I needed to make a claim against Rose.
2) I asked in the RELEVANT THREAD (http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/phorum/viewtopic.php?t=58) at the forums
3) I've waited two weeks now in what was an active thread at the time.

Don't f*cking talk to me like you're my mother.
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Her to Me


People who have behaved shamefully usually don't care how rational people think about them. Look at your behavior towards me in your last couple of PMs. You have acted in a completely unacceptable manner for anyone, let alone someone who is supposed to be a moderator. Your conduct is embarrassing.


Well, I figured since you have the right to fly off the handle when I stated a fact (about your accusations of hacking), then I naturally thought I was permitted to as well.

Don't bother. Your attitude is reprehensible, and I wouldn't help you now if you asked me to.

Yes, yes, yes. Here we go. Everyone knows that cursing someone out when they're trying to be polite to you means that you automatically win the argument. Congratulations! You're the most well-spoken, educated, and mature poster to ever grace this forum! You should feel extremely proud that you're able to start cursing people out when they're trying to figure out why you've suddenly went from Dr. Jeckyll to Mr. Hyde. Bravo! *clap clap clap*

I've noticed that you conveniently refused to address the whole 'I never said anyone was hacking!' issue when it was perfectly clear that you did. Maybe you think pretending it didn't exist will make you feel better. You should be ashamed of yourself for not only making false accusations to people, but also losing your temper over a mistake that you made in your wording to me in a PM. You are petty and spiteful and I no longer can defend you in anything you say or do.

Do not PM me ever again on this or any other matter. I am filing a complaint against you with Jennifer momentarily. It's a shame you couldn't act like an adult throughout this whole ordeal. Take care of yourself.

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So there you have it. All the PMs - exactly as they were, word for word, except, as I stated earlier to remove irrelevant text not related to this issue. Please feel free to comment.

From what I can tell, this conversation went pear-shaped about the time she took a hypothetical statement about what if we WERE stealing something, and interpreted it as an accusation of such activity. Other than that, it makes my eyes glaze over. This is why I largely ignore most PMs, and I think the fact that you allowed yourself to get riled over what was a stupid statement that didn't follow from what you actually said, rather than simply dismissing that point and not responding to it, probably made it worse. The problem escalated when you responded affirmatively to the request for why you were pissed at her. You should have just done what I do, and gone, "I have no idea what you're talking about."

In any case, this is a stupid argument and I recommend simply ignoring it and filing it in the DELETED bin. Less talking, more looting. I want to break 4 TB next month.

Thank you.

You're right. I did get riled about something that I probably shouldn't have done. Unfortunately, I tend to do that - add to the fact that I'm 5 months pregnant and I suppose it was bound to happen.

Anyway, thank you for at least letting me get my side in. And keep up the good work.

I'm off to find the DELETED bin now.

Oh no.  Don't tell Pescado you're pregnant.  He doesn't do well with pregnant women (check the newsbox at MATY for proof).

Wait.  This just occurred to me - Emma Laverwinkle-MATY Emma?

Edit again:  Nah, that Emma gave birth this week.  Carry on.  :P

To Simsfunk

What is there to get under control?  I don't get why the topic of Paysites has to be controlled?  Why can't it go in the direction it goes and leave it be?  I do not get why people are trying so hard to control what people say, think or feel on the matter either way.

For fucks sake, just let people say what they want. Candy coating it and or ignoring it only makes matters worse in my opinion.  The more you try to control the situation the more people will get bent.  

In my opinion you over reacted in those PM's, but this is only my opinion from what I read.  

Some people don't get it.  The more you try to censure and prevent folks from talking about something the worse the situation will get.  Allowing people to vent and discuss the topic gets it out in the open and eventually the topic will grow old.  People will become done with talking about it so much when certain folks quit trying to make the subject taboo.

1) The thread at boolprop seems very under control, with a few moderators coming close to panicking about nothing much, but it's your site so you know it best, probably. Whether you perceive the thread here as "out of control" or not is really a non-issue. I don't see it, but my opinion about it being whacked or not is as important as yours is (like, not important at all).

2) You seem resentful that no one here helped you when you complained about Rose. I don't recall seeing that post, perhaps it got lost in the shuffle of another thread. However, it's not the job of other people on the internet to help you. But could you link to the thread where you asked for help, so that anyone who feels like it may help you?

3) "I don't know how they're getting hold of the custom content that's all." I can see how this could be intrepreted as quite insulting. Bluesoup has certainly stated how PMBD gets custom content at least once on boolprop, and others have talked about it many places in the community.

All this goes to bolster something I've thought for quite a while: arguing over PM's is a bad idea. It really sucks to get an argumentative PM from a moderator of a site, and it does make one feel that she's at a disadvantage. My take is that Denimjo had every right to ask for help in that debate, and every right to complain here about a ridiculous comment that she couldn't complain about there. And that both of you got nasty fast in the PMs, which is what invariably happens when arguments occur in that form.

Most of what I see is a misunderstanding that went the way most do and got out of control. The dumbest part is that you're really on the same side just at slightly different angles.
I don't understand where all the boolpropian mods are coming from having never been there before reading this thread. If the problem with big words had been unchallenged here, I don't think any of this would have happened. Whoever made that comment in the first place is the biggest idiot in all this. Maybe it should have stayed at boolprop, but attacking people for using their vocabularies is a pretty stupid thing to do. None of the words were offensive so let the children learn something. I certainly wish I had been exposed to differences of opinion in my youth. I still resent those who pretended that everything in life is black and white.
On the whole I do think it was foolish of Denimjo to make such a public statement re: simsfunk. Both of them got a bit hot under the collar and let out too many heated words.
My advice to simsfunk/Emma: next time you want to PM someone in that tone, talk to someone who isn't involved first. A level head is essential when moderating and all your actions at boolprop are those of a mod.

*Hides pregnant belly from Pescado*

I've got 38 days to go until my due date. It feels like I've been pregnant for about three years now, heh.

C.

THank you, simsfunk. :) I am a person that is adamently against publically sharing PMS with other people, but since you've shown absolutely no problem with doing as such, I'll take that as an indication that you won't have a problem if I do the same.

Here is where I got the impression that she was still thinking that people are hacking:


Bolding mine. Note she said she didn't know how people were getting the files, not where, but how. That's where I got the indication that you still think people are hacking. If, on the other hand, you simply made a poor wording choice, all, you had to do was tell me as such and I would have accepted that. Unfortunately, since you decided to completely ignore the reference I made to that sentence in subsequent PMs, I took that to mean that you really can't defend yourself against the fact that you said that. If anyone requests it, I can provide a screenshot of that part of the message, but that is what I'm talking about.

As for your little temper tantrum about Jennifer taking your "side" over mine, hmmmm, let's see, who would you think has a more valid point: someone who is being polite and civil, or someone who is pitching a public temper tantrum like a 2-year-old that's been told the word no and is using language that is not permitted on the site that they're moderating? Hmmmmm...

And for the record, simsfunk: pregnancy is not an excuse to be able to get away with poor behavior. If I had gone over there and called you an immature, foul-mouthed, cocksucking cunt, would you have liked that?* No? And yet you're permitted here to call me a lying bitch, but expect to be forgiven for it because you're pregnant. Get over yourself.

*To use your defense of yourself, no I'm not calling you that.

Alright - I'm not arguing about this. Just to say that 1) Why would anyone need a screenshot?!?! The exact same piece of message is RIGHT there at the top of this page.

and 2) You are still implying that at some stage I said that people here were hacking/stealing. I NEVER said or thought that. You just assumed that's what I thought.

I guess pregnancy has made you unable to read as well, despite that I've shown you three times now why I got that impression from you.

So, quick question: who here thinks I'm, as simsfunk has contended, a "LYING BITCH?"*

*Formatting intact.

Oh yes, you're VERY mature.

Whether you "got that impression"or not you should have just taken it from the first time I told you (wording or not) and my subsequent posts all around the forum which said I believed that they were not getting hold of the content in way such as stealing.

Nitpicking about a "how" instead of a "where" in subsequent messages is finding trouble where there isn't any.

I'll try one more time to get this through to you:

Asking 'how' someone got something is different than 'where' they got it from. This sentence here:

Person A: 'Hey, how'd you get that bottle of pop?'

 is different that this one:

Person A: 'Hey, where'd you get that bottle of pop?'

That's the difference. It's not nitpicking since the word difference changes the actual meaning of the sentence. If you meant to say 'I don't know where they got that custom content,' I wouldn't have thought for a second that you thought that people were stealing. Can't you simply accept the fact that you made a mistake and used an incorrect word in your PM to me?

FINE! I'll accept that.

If you can just say to yourself, "Huh! She already said SEVERAL times that she didn't think PMBD are stealing... she mustn't have meant anything by "how" instead of "where"... I wonder why I started all this crap off...."

There you go. That was the basis of the misunderstanding, simsfunk, and had you simply copped to that much earlier, you wouldn't have been put in the position where you had to start acting so childish and publically pitching a temper tantrum that makes you look so badly.

This admission from you, however, does nothing to excuse your piss-poor behavior that you've consistently displayed for the last several days.

In addition:

You cannot depend on the person you're conversing with to be a mind reader and know what you actually meant in a message (especially when pregnancy seems to do so many weird things to you, like causes one to revert to behavior that would be more suitable for someone the age of two). The honus is not on me to interpret what you meant; it's on you to make yourself understood correctly (especially since 'how' and 'where' are not "big words").

And despite the fact that I don't expect you to honor this request, I would like an apology from you for accusing me of being a liar. The 'bitch' part I have no problem with, as that is purely subjective (and is doubtless held by a number of people), but nowhere did I lie about you, as you did, in fact, send me two rather nasty PMs (by your own admission since you've posted them).

Well you've already been accused of being stupid on here so that makes sense to me...

And you are NOT allowed to bring my pregnancy into this. That's three times you've done it since I mentioned it on here.  Talk about prejudice. That is sinking to a NEW LOW.

And why should I apologise to you after what you've said about me? No chance. You said I accused this site of hacking & stealing and that I made personal insults to you, all of which is A LIE. That makes you a LIAR.

Okay NOW I'm done.

And you notice that I don't really care about that since it's not true? ETA: Do you also notice it's not an accusation but one person's belief?


You are the one who brought it up in the first place in order to try to excuse your poor behavior. I wouldn't have mentioned it if you hadn't done so first. And again, you have no authority here, so you cannot dictate what I can and cannot do. Here's a novel thought: why don't you try asking nicely if I don't bring it up anymore? I think you in particular might be shocked at what a little politeness can accomplish.


Please notice that I was feeling just as irritated with your poor behavior before you tried to use your pregnancy as a crutch to excuse your cursing and childish behavior, so try again. Your attempt to play the victim isn't going to work with that as an excuse.

Hm, I don't really want popcorn, since last time I ate it I got a kernel stuck in my teeth for two days... anyone got Doritos?

As much as public fights sorta entertain me when I'm not involved, I really think Captain Feathersword is right:  You two are both on the same side, but slightly different angles.  I don't think any good is being served by duking it out here.  I'm sure, Emma, that you would never allow it to go this far on your forum.  We have a more relaxed view on this forum, but you guys aren't really making any headway and it's about to get totally personal, which isn't necessary.

So I'm gonna lock the thread, and maybe you guys can just agree to disagree here.

For the official record:  No one here has ever hacked into a site for paysite files.  They've all been paid for legitimately, and/or acquired through filesharing channels on other forums (SFV).