PMBD

You can yell at me all you want for starting a new thread.  But I just had a nasty thought that makes a lot of sense.

Here's my hypothesis and prediction:  Thomas knows something we don't know.  He's recruited Birgit, Marilu, Steffor, Sasilia, Teko, and now KC and Shino (who were just made SA's) in a short period of time.  What impetus do all these people have to move to TSR at a time when paysites are threatened with legal action?

I think Thomas, or Steve, has  made a deal with EA, something like a one-off licensing system.  TSR is allowed to charge money for "operating costs" or something vague like that.  In turn TSR pays EA a fee, and is permitted to maintain the status quo (=remaining a paysite).  I have absolutely no inside knowledge.  But we know that Steve/Maxis/EA are very close, and the relationship hasn't deteriorated in all this fuss about paysites.  Thomas seems alarmingly able to recruit some of the most prominent creators, even more so than in the past.  They all must feel real secure that TSR won't be touched in a purge of paysites.

And see, this is a vicious cycle.  Thomas recruits "big" creators, persuading EA to allow it to remain pay.  EA thinks that Thomas has sucked up the "good ones", motivating it to make an exclusive agreement with TSR which can be easily regulated (because it's only one site as opposed to dozens of paysites).  Then Thomas is all the more able to recruit more people, and on and on.

I don't like the sound of this.  Please argue that I'm wrong. :cry:

I am not going to argue that you are wrong, it is something I have also thought of.  There might be another or additional reason, though.  I think that when TSR went from all things going through the pay/free rotation to everything free but FA the paid subscriptions went way down.  I think the loss of subscriptions hit them hard, as I don't think they expected that to happen.  So, in order to get subscription levels back up, they went recruiting paysite people who had a following in hopes that people who subscribed to Birgit, Sasilla, et al. would be willing to come to TSR and subscribe there too.  If they get all the major paysites under their umbrella, all that money that was spread on all those sites would come to TSR.

Don't let the wool be pulled over your eyes into thinking Thomas and Steve are cozy with EA they are not. Just call EA legal and talk to them...don't email tech support, ask the Maxoids. Call EA at their corporate offices and ask to speak to legal. I don't understand why more people don't do that? It does no good to email tech support. They have no idea what is the law what is not. They are not EA's lawyers and the lawyers need this information. You have to call corporate. You won't get conflicting stories from them. It takes time to supeona paypal records/credit card records. Judges just don't order a company to give them up if they think you do not have a case, or sign off on them just like that. They are taking their time at collecting evidence and reviewing the financial records, etc...to determine what will be done, if anything. I'm calling them today to update the new list of sites that have gone pay.

I'm definately going to argue you are wrong.

1. If EA had made a deal with TSR, you don't think that there would be an EA approved seal on the site do you?

2. If Thomas has spies here, and he probably does - then this would be the first place that EA would focus.  Or at the very least, TSR would threaten.

3. We wouldn't get emails from EA stating that selling custom content is wrong.

That may well be the future - but I won't be buying EA anymore - and so it won't be my problem.  If EA makes stupid deals with paysites to sucker more money out of me they'll end up with none of my money.

As for the recent recruitment - lots of well known artists have been asked to TSR - including Nouk.  If she had a brain aneurism tomorrow, she might consider taking up that offer and TSR would welcome her with open arms.

Perhaps the recent changes in the community mean that these owners, who are just after heaps of money after all, are looking for sure money with no output to make their own sites - and they take up the offer to TSR.  I would say that the freesite movement and information available has either put a dent in their sales, or made them fear a dent in sales.  

Not to mention that if EA does get off its arse and actually do something, it will be Thomas - owner of the company that takes the fall - not some measley little paysite owner with his $300 of ill-gotten gains.

Some of these paysite owners seem to have an almost psychic connection - and doubtless talk about things somewhere or other - so they all decide to let Thomas deal with it, and run away with their pockets fuller, and that's it - that's the grand plan.

While I'm glad to hear EA's legal department are taking this seriously and getting details I find the lack of joined up policy and the fence sitting by the EAxis as a whole frustrating.

And when they start acting in such a wishy washy manner such as contradicting themselves over their reply to HP when they decided to change their minds after having given a very definative statement.:roll:  Well, I can see why people would speculate that deals are being done behind the scenes.

I just wish they'd start to get their act together by getting all arms of the corporation to act in the same manner and read from the same rule book.

In a similar vein I noticed this at s2c: (http://forums.sims2community.com/showpost.php?p=957166&postcount=498)





Has anyone else heard anything about this? I really hope that the EA boards aren't attempting to protect paysites interests, and again see the mixed messages it's sending out.

There ws one, one of the outcomes was that all TSR content will be removed from the Exchange.

Well, my goodness. That certainly seems like more of a definite statement about EAs take on paysites than any answer they send  in e-mails.  I mean doesn't that show absolutely that EA is planning to defend paysites? Otherwise wouldn't they have said "Fuck you, we're not removing anything, it all technically belongs to us."

I dunno, this whole paysite stuff has never really concerned me. It's always been more important to me that I can find stuff that the creators allow to be used in uploaded lots than anything else. But if EA aligns itself with a mess like TSR, I think they are making a big mistake. It's such a shame. Can we not flood the BBS with "boycott TSR" posts so that EA realizes that if they expect to get a cut of $ from the big bad TSR, that they might not be able count on such a big take....

Well, if TSR can offer them something they want, they'll have the same interrests.

I actually am the one that posted that message.  I believe that the issue was that noone was being credited appropriately for their work.  I don't believe it was a stand for/against it was mainly that others were taking credit for someone else's work.  And if I understand that whole package thing correctly, the way the Season's changed it caused a lot of issues as well.

Someone with more/better knowledge can give more detail.

If I was in charge of this thing... I'd

1) Start a letter writing campaign to EA telling them the things we find wrong with TSR. Everything from the hideously confusing layout, to creators works being held after they leave, to the structure of subscrip vs free items and the way said structure changes, in an effort to help them understand that backing TSR is not the way to go.

2) Start a campaign on the BBS. Using accounts sparingly, as we will most likely get banned, so that everyday for as long as is possible there would be at least one "Boycott TSR and here's why" thread. Hopefully the threads would be phrased in a way so that EA understands that we are it's customers, and we choose NOT to do business with TSR. This would do to get EA's attention, as well as to alert any noobies to the community about what is going on.


ok end of list and now just a few thoughts....

EA siding up with TSR also seems to be a bad thing for all of those smaller paysites. If EA sends down the command that only sites with EA's stamp of approval may charge money, that's going to fuck all the smaller paysite owners. Paysite owners would be wise to turn free (ad-based or donation based) now more than ever, before they are squashed by their own kind.


edit to add after reading armywife's post.... :)

I can see that as being an issue... but damn.... when I was at sky sterlings (sterlingDT) forum, the simposium, there was a letter writing campaign about a year or so ago, where we pleaded with them about people having uncredited items on the exchange and we were pretty much ignored. Maybe EA doesn't mind people uploading uncredited free items, but they will stick up for those who upload pay items...  that's fucked up if that's the case. We free creators are willing to share, we only wanted our names preserved in the CC lists as the original creator. Though I haven't uploaded any of my own CC to the exchange in a while so maybe this has changed...

In any event, I've pretty much been waiting to see what EA will do in this whole situation, and if this TSR/EA phone call amounts to nothing I will fall back into the shadows.... :)  If it turns out that EA is teaming up with TSR, I will be mad, and vocal, as hell.

We already have done a letter campaign to EA. I estimate nearly 200 letters were sent, based on downloads and notes to me.

I believe much of EA's case will be financial - how much are these sites making on the back of the corporation's product.

Even if EA does NOT make a decision, we're seeing the community take care of itself here. The free-the-sims movement is growing, major players are making their stand loud and clear, and let's face it - all the whining and machinations haven't kept us from "sharing user-created content on our non-commerical site."

I think we'll see some interesting resolution.

I sent a letter myself, as part of that campaign, but here I was more specifically meaning one directed to EA's possible hooking up with TSR.... not so much as a plea to do away with Paysites, but as a plea to not hook up with the worst of all the paysites....  Jeez, I personally would rather EA endorsed tiny paysites than the biggest fucker on the block.

But I agree it will definitely be interesting :)

Nah, all they would have to do at that point is move to TSR.  

Actually, it makes sense for smaller pays sites to move there anyway.  If EA does go against paysites, then TSR would be affected/sued/whatever and you would be safe.   Out of your money, but safe while TSR takes the brunt of the decision.

Interesting theory...it's possible.

I find it rather hilarious that they're complaining about people using their content when they hold on to anything on their site with an iron fist.

I also wonder why EA would intervene on behalf of people who wanted their stuff taken off if they were planning a deal with TSR.

Tomato, I'm not sure that's true.  First off, EULA's or copyrights or trademarks can be enforced selectively.  If TSR gets monstrously big, it might be in EA's interests--if a financial deal has been swung--to let TSR off the hook. It's far easier to negotiate with one big paysite than with many small ones.

Second, for all that I dislike THomas and his SOP, he's not totally stupid and he must be aware of the paysite controversy and EA's imminent :roll: ruling.  Why go to the trouble of fattening up the cash cow now?  I don't think he'd do that for short term gain alone--i.e., if he thought EA would go after him.  Nah, I think they're in cahoots.

This irks me no end, because beyond the pay issue is the idea of a Sims download hegemony (lol) . You think the commercialization of the game and the community is bad now?  Everything that Thomas has done since he made his grand entrance has been to systematize the site so that it's more like a business.  Remember the old days at TSR?  Even after it left MGON?    Remember the loose organization of, for example, the forum?  Not good for the bottom line, so that's gone.  If TSR gets the EA imprimatur, things are going to get a lot worse. :(

ETA:  Why would EA intervene?  Because the number of downloads taken off the site is (are?) small potatoes.  Not worth the trouble of the email exchanges they caused.  Or something like that.

Greed? I can easily see him grabbing as much as he can WHILE he can.

As far as bringing all the twats on board, I think that's just TSR making up for lost  creative talent (like windkeeper). They DO need to justify charging for their crap. Honestly, how many times can atwa recolor shtinky's Arizona set before people realize they're getting screwed.

It just makes sense than that Thomas would approach the twats.  And being the who they are, they were willing to whore themselves for him. That's what whores do. No big surprise there.  

Either way, I hope you're suspicions are wrong DOW, otherwise I'll be using these game disks as coasters at my next "Fuck you EA and TSR" costume party.

since S3 is coming out in about a year (?), it looks more like TSR is trying its best to ride the gravy train for as long as it can and drain that milk (cash) cow before the 'end' of Sims2


in all probability, EA will do NOTHING about paysites (why rock the boat so to speak if S3 is only a year away) and if anything, I could see a stricter EULA enforced for S3

after all, S2 will go the way of S1 (become a minor obscure thing) after S3 is released

What? WTF? When did this happen? That's it. I'm gonna go upload a ton of TSR pay stuff right now.  :evil:

Have to echo Requip.  Why TSR stuff and not Peggy's?  Why TSR stuff and not stuff from free sites?

Let WTF reverberate throughout the canyons of...ah, shit, lost my poetic, um...crap.

Very simply, Peggy is one creator.  How many FAs and whatevers do they have at TSR?  A lot of the creators were pitching a fit with EA about it and Steve Bonham.  The rest you know...

Errrmmmmmm.........no, I don't. That's what I was asking........WHEN did EA remove TSR things from the Exchange? Musta been a long time ago?

What's the difference between uploading to the Exchange and stuff in the Booty?  Third partyism?

The whole thing sounds suspect.  A mysterious fragment of conversation floated out to either appease some TSR/FA flailing or to stir shit.  And the Bonham guy used to work for Maxis, didn't he?  Had a simpage and all (please someone correct me on this).  So they put him out there 'conference calling' to EA...bleh.  Has a stinkiness about it.

I think we should all start calling this person listed above to give our complaints too about TSR & other sites breaking the EULA & Copyrights of EA.

I seem to remember that when The Sims 2 came out, they vaguely said that custom content wasn't really "supported".  Either way, it would be terribly dumb to back TSR, simply because if they DID do that, they'd need to screen items and put only quality stuff out there.  Okay fine, deciding on quality clothing may be a bit out of EAxis' league, but for hairs and other meshes?  They'd have to make sure the items are at a certain level in terms of quality, they'd have to make sure they work in peoples' games...or don't they?  How could they not?

What happens when people then subscribe and download from the newly-backed-by-EA-TSR only to discover the items are crappy?  That the "new" FA PeggySims has uploaded a crapload of gappy hairs and Atwa has made a shitload of literally blinding recolours?  Can they get compensated for wasting their money?  Who takes the fall, EA or TSR?  They could say that because of EA, they subscribed to TSR and got crappy items or items that crashed their game or did this or that.

You can't leave it up to TSR to screen them, since they really do a shitty job as it is.  The fact that ChazDeshits is even existing on that site is mind-boggling.

I have also been informed by the manager of content submissions at TSR that FA's "creations" are NOT screened.  FAs just upload whatever they want and set the date for when they want it to be released, but they're not screened by anyone currently to check whether or not they abide by the "commoners' submissions" standards.

I'm probably making no sense since I'm running on lack of sleep, but all I'm saying is that if they backed TSR and made some kind of deal with them, they'd have to regulate the site and its content, don't they?

I should sleep soon..

Just did that (emailed). Thanks for the information WB.

Could someone give me the link to the information that TSR's stuff is being taken down from the exchange? I just searched the exchange and couldn't find it. I was once again told today that no paysite or freesite for that matter is getting a licensing agreement so I'd like to call legal again tomorrow and ask them what that is all about? Why are users being forced to take down pay items from TSR. But I need a link because as Hec and Nouk knows they'll ask me for one.

Di, I have no idea for a link on this, but I went onto the Exchange and searched for stuff...and there is hardly anything there.

Hopefully this is just EA cleaning up the Exchange....but...

There is hardly any pay items there. Here's a list of the words I searched for next to how many results in the Sims section there is. I also searched in the Objects and Lots area for TSR and creators at TSR, and there was 0 results...

Out of 24,951 sims in the Sim section on the Exchange -

TSR - 266
Thesimsresource - 96
Chazdesigns - 46
Aikea - 12
Sunair - 147
Confide - 78
Sophel21 - 2
atwa - 0
elmazzz - 2
evi - 1,373
lianaa - 4
marko - 18
neptunesuzy - 6
xandher - 10
windkeeper - 7

Raon - 363
Peggy - 3,642
Peggysims - 2,199
Raonsims - 275
Rose - 1,002

donation - 833
pay - 365
subscription - 10

I am going to do the same searchs tomorrow to see if their is a difference...

Going back to this. The thing is if (and it's a big if) it's about credit. Why can't the FAs at TSR upload their creations to the exchange just before they're released on TSR but select the option so they're not for download there?

This would mean that they were credited on EA's system and wouldn't prevent them flogging the stuff. Or they could just make sure their name and site is on the tool tips because once in game that's the only way people are going to know who made it.

Again with the mixed signals from the EAxis. :roll:

I guess no one told this guy: http://thesims2.ea.com/mysimpage/uploads.php?user_id=3648636&asset_type=sim
that he couldn't post pay stuff from TSR.  :twisted:

I must credit HysterialParoxysm for the link over in the S2C paysites thread.

In the last two days I have uploaded TSR payfiles on my sims.  They are still there and getting downloaded.  What is suppose to be happening with the TSR uploaded stuff? Deletion?

Ok thank you ;) I called again today and they said no one made any orders to remove anything from the exchange so they have no idea what I am talking about. I said good neither do I. lol I was just making sure, people are getting discouraged with the whole thing and all were asking for is a fair decision.

If EA wants to support paysites just let us know, it's getting very confusing. Tech support sends confusing messages back and forth. Were being told your in some secret meetings with TSR to come to an agreement with them. He said I can't tell you a whole lot but  we are not in any secret meetings with anyone. We just have to make sure all our facts are in order, etc...etc. They already know though I am not far from them, I'll carry my happy go lucky self in there and beat on some desks if they keep this up. Appease the nutty woman. Someone!! lol

Teh.

Well I have done some searches on the Exchange again, and the numbers have only changed by 1 or 2..some have gone up, some have gone down. So no pattern there. So no evidence that TSR stuff is being removed from the Exchange.  :roll:

And although your guy cant tell us loads, he tells us stuff we need to know - and thats that there are no secret meetings. Meh its probs TSR talking to their Maxoids buddies, who we all know dont pull the strings  :wink:

Those are the celebrities we know and love. Horrible, aren't they? But, all the little sheep seem to flock to Chaz and his horrid hair and skins. If only the sheep knew about that page. Actually, I can't see the resemblance in most of them.

I just found out some of them are by Jirka...