TSR Sharing your infomation!

[gelydh]

I fail to see how anything Aikea said that was presented in any screenshots from TSR painted her as condoning the sharing of personal information. Furthermore, what you seem to fail to realize is that it wouldn't have made a damned difference if we'd spoken against the information sharing then. Thomas would have still done it, period. On that note, we most certainly did NOT share any personal information ourselves, then or ever. I don't know how anyone could have gotten that idea from the screenshots coconut posted, but who knows?

Frankly, I'm disgusted that you, and others, seem to feel the need to put the blame on Aikea, and me, and whoever was privy to this information, after we've LEFT. Is that no longer good enough for anyone? Do you need an accessible scapegoat to start throwing stones at? Aikea came in here to point out that she wasn't, in any way, denying anything she said. Does she regret posting that shit? Yes. The same way we both regret having been a part of TSR for so long. What, precisely, do you want us to do now? I've asked that previously when accusations were flung at us in this thread earlier, you know. Are you going to turn us out, disgrace our names, issue a bounty on our heads? Do you want a hand-written apology from us personally, delivered to every person whose information was shared, in-person, with a large monetary condolance attached? Seriously, what the fuck? We don't represent TSR in any possible way anymore, so what on earth can we do about it now?

Yeah, I know, I only seem to speak up to defend Aikea. Whatever. She's my best friend and I'm not going to sit idly by while she's slandered in such a pointless, repetitive way, and while her fucking honesty is questioned. Christ.

[mustluvcatz]

No, calalily. That's not why I asked that question. I asked it because I thought that aikea_guinea had the respect of alot of the members here. I'm confused as to why you posted what you did. That question doesn't have a thing to do with that thread at TSR. It's about her leaving TSR and having a free site now. It has nothing to do with sharing information.


ETA: As for sharing personal information and hiding behind downloads to do it, I don't see any evidence that Aikea did that. I saw ONE post she made in that thread and she's explained that she didn't realize what they were doing. Now, if a person believes that or not, that's their own decision obviously. But, I'm leaning towards believing her because I don't see any reason (posts, etc.) anywhere else to make me think otherwise. Now, if it were anyone else in that thread? I wouldn't believe them.

And, yeah, Atwat may be a freesite owner, but she was also all over that thread peeing her panties each and every time another pirate was banned. So, the only way she can skate is if she owns a pair.

[aikea_guinea]

Other than that, I don't know how many times I'm expected to say that I don't condone the sharing of personal information, or whatever else it is I'm expected to say. 

Yes, but that's what current FA ShinoKCR said when they saw the initial post, all "don't paint us as all bad" - and then we find that they were in fact cheering the whole thing on.

I feel that what they were doing was cheering 'file sharers' being caught with TSR's 'watermark,' and their subsequent banning from TSR.  It's no different than cheering a kill mark on here.  Please understand, once again, I'm in no way defending TSR; as I've said before, the sharing of names was a completely malicious and stupid thing to do.  This is just how I see these (rather silly) replies to the topic.  If you see the replies another way, do please explain.

I understand that this is a big deal, but I have to admit I'm getting a bit tired of instant suspicion cast upon me for something that happened last year. 

Not suspicion if we have proof you participated. Last year or ten years ago makes no never mind to the people who had their information shared.  Frankly, saying "oh it was last year" is probably part of the reason that people feel so suspicious.  Their information - personal, dangerous information was shared. To discount it as "so last year" is perhaps why people don't think you think it's a big deal.

No, I didn't say it wasn't a big deal.  I never said it wasn't a big deal, nor did I ever 'discount it as "so last year".'  What I meant was the thread in question is a year old, so I'm sorry I didn't instantly think of it and instantly remember I'd posted in it.  I'm also sorry if I've been misunderstood.

I'm not there anymore, I have no plans to ever go back, I hate everything TSR stands for, what the fuck more do you want?  It's very easy to say you'd have done things differently had you been in the situation, but when you're caught up in the propaganda machine that is TSR, things are different. 

I *know* I would have done things differently. The fact is that you had time to sit back and think about it, and you didn't.  Not all of the blame rests with TSR, some of it does rest with you. The more you try to skate away from that, the more people will question your motives - if you can't be honest with yourself, and refuse to acknowledge that you were wrong, then you certainly can't be honest with us.

Then you're much better at escaping brainwashing than I am, and therefore a better person.  I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'time to sit back and think about it.'  I also don't understand how I'm skating away from any of this.  I fully admitted to knowing about the thread, and never once tried to say otherwise.  What I've said is that I didn't think of it as a list of real names and contact information, but more of a list of user names that were caught with their tracking whateverthefuckitwas on the files.  Obviously the list has more than just user names on it, but my brain didn't register beyond that.  If you think this is me being dishonest with myself, I'm afraid you're mistaken.

Calalily, I'm honestly confused by your anger towards me at this point.  I never personally shared anyone's information with anyone else anywhere, nor would it ever occur to me to do so.  Am I correct in understanding that it was my inaction at the time?  If so, at this point the most I can do is apologize for that.

Questions?
1) Are there any more posts in that thread that aikea_guinea forgot about?

There very well may be, but I honestly cannot remember.  I know in my time as an FA I had some rather not-nice opinions about PMBD, and probably vocalized them from time to time.  I said before that I take full responsibilty for the things I've said in the past.  If it comes up that I posted in that thread again, coconut is more than welcome to post the screencaps. 

[sherrie]

I do understand where Aikea's coming from, as I've said before, when I was part of cult TSR, I said a few not so nice things about pirates myself (during those long tedious convos with Atwat). TSR really do brainwash you into believing they are good and wholesome and pirates are lowly thieves. In all the time I was there not one person even mentioned the EULA to me, I'd never heard of it, I guess I'm just one of those people who agrees to anything to load the game! I only saw the light when Atwa sent me here to try to get me to troll. I didn't, I read and began to understand more what was really happening. When the time came for me to join here I was already de-programmed, and things I had said in the past to atwat were no way what I felt anymore. I believe that's the case with Aikea.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's the case with the others in that thread, just because the thread is old, it in no way means they've all reformed, far from it. The reason I say that is because the other posters are so far cheering along to peoples data being illegally shared, baying for blood and laughing at their money being stolen, not to mention trojens and virus's (sp) That is something I never did nor would I have ever been a part of, So far I haven't seen a post of Aikea's doing that either. Anyone who would behave like that would never genuinly change in my eyes. They are old enough to know right from wrong, and thats not just a case of lack of information.

Of course I could be well off key here and Coconut posts something really incriminating Aikea wrote next time, but until that happens I want to give her the same benefit of the doubt that I was shown by all you awesome people when I came here.

*gets off soap box at throws another rock at TSR*

[Redikolous]

I'm divided here.

On one hand, I don't think that many people would have done as you Calalily.  If they were you, they wouldn't have joined TSR in the first place.  Could you honestly say that before the days of anti-paysite, you wouldn't have?  You might (probably will) not have joined, but certainly not everybody.  Hell, even me, if I could make a shirt, may have joined.

On the other hand, I was sickened to read Aikea's response in that thread.  

On my third hand (yes, I have a third hand  ), I doubt I could remember everything that I've posted.  I may have posted something about sharing Aikea's sims, or saying that they're ugly, or how Aikea's stuff is not all that great, but I'd be hard pressed to remember it, and you to find it.  Yes, it probably wasn't anything illegal, but Aikea knowing that is still up for debate.  We can't know for sure that she knew the illegality of it.

So, my verdict?

Judging by how long she showed up, I'd say that Aikea may not have known, 100-something posts in, what they thread is about, and that she really believed that it was legal methods of finding filesharers.  I'd also give her a wider berth than Atwat, Dot, Tug, and all the people who were there from the beginning, cheering Thomas on every other post, and suggesting other ways that definitely were illegal.  I'd rather not alienate her any more than we have and give her a mostly clean slate.  I think she's done far less than we want to pin her for.  Just because she's the only FA we can talk to does not make her responsible for the ones we can't talk to.  Until I see something painting her as bad as Atwat or Tug (or any of them), I'd still think we should be as nice to Aikea and Geldyh as we have been.

[SnarkyShark]

Yeah, I know, I only seem to speak up to defend Aikea. Whatever. She's my best friend and I'm not going to sit idly by while she's slandered in such a pointless, repetitive way, and while her fucking honesty is questioned. Christ.

Uhmm, fucking excuse me? Up to this point, nobody here was being ANYTHING other than civil as far as it pertained to aikea_guinea. And yet, you come barreling in here accusing us of slander when you and your BFF were a party to all the SLANDEROUS SHIT that went down over at TSR. Where the hell do you get off? If you can't comprehend why the hell people would have honest questions about the extent of her involvement than you're just not trying hard enough. But here's a clue - she's on record having CHEERED ON as people's personal PAYPAL information was being shared.

[justso]

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/sims-2/346503-custom-content.html#post5881557

i am a self confessed total noob and don't know how to screenshot

[calalily]

On that note, we most certainly did NOT share any personal information ourselves, then or ever.

I'm certainly not suggesting you did.

Frankly, I'm disgusted that you, and others, seem to feel the need to put the blame on Aikea, and me, and whoever was privy to this information, after we've LEFT. Is that no longer good enough for anyone?

I don't think leaving erased any and all behaviour. Atwat left (although not of her own accord) does that mean all is well, we never speak of it again?

Do you need an accessible scapegoat to start throwing stones at?

Accessible scapegoat?  I have called ShinoKCR to account for their posts, why should anyone else get special treatment?

She's my best friend and I'm not going to sit idly by while she's slandered in such a pointless, repetitive way, and while her fucking honesty is questioned.

It's not a lie, ergo not slander.  We have screenshots to prove it. You're not being much of a friend if you're just willing to curse out everybody rather than listen to how others might perceive her.  She wants to put this behind her, I am sure, and some pirates are questioning her actions.  

I might have been the one to ask the questions, but you can bet your arse that fifty other people are sitting there thinking the same thing.  But they're not going to say anything because they're afraid that you'll go straight back to pay at TSR.  I personally think you are or should be better than being so petty, so I asked the questions the others won't.  

If you think it better *insert hollow laughter here* serves her interest to say "Shut the fuck up bitches she's free" then go right ahead with your "defence" of her.  I think if she has a chance to answer those questions, everything will be much better.

That question doesn't have a thing to do with that thread at TSR. It's about her leaving TSR and having a free site now. It has nothing to do with sharing information.

Then how exactly does it pertain to this discussion at all?  For free sites, you get all the kudos from me.  For bad behaviour, just because you have a free site doesn't mean you get to do whatever you feel like. Consider those questions ignored.

I feel that what they were doing was cheering 'file sharers' being caught with TSR's 'watermark,' and their subsequent banning from TSR.  It's no different than cheering a kill mark on here.  

Except it doesn't include their real names, usernames, and email addresses.

No, I didn't say it wasn't a big deal.  I never said it wasn't a big deal, nor did I ever 'discount it as "so last year".'  What I meant was the thread in question is a year old, so I'm sorry I didn't instantly think of it and instantly remember I'd posted in it.  I'm also sorry if I've been misunderstood.

I don't expect you to remember it, but just discounting your post as "well I've left now, haven't I?" - that's not an excuse.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'time to sit back and think about it.'

It's a forum - not real time chat.  I have time to sit here and think about my posts and what is right, so does everyone else.

Calalily, I'm honestly confused by your anger towards me at this point.  I never personally shared anyone's information with anyone else anywhere, nor would it ever occur to me to do so.  Am I correct in understanding that it was my inaction at the time?  If so, at this point the most I can do is apologize for that.

I don't actually feel so much anger, as disappointment.  I like you personally, and I believed your statement on GoS:

At the time, I thought 'Eh, boring list of user names...' and got distracted by something else.

Except you posted.  I had the impression that you glanced at it, and then went off somewhere else.  But you posted, and that to me requires a little bit more explanation than "distracted while posting on the same topic with a post that makes sense in context".

I know in my time as an FA I had some rather not-nice opinions about PMBD, and probably vocalized them from time to time.    

Saying nasty things about PMBD is the name of the game.  I have no issues with that whatsoever.

On one hand, I don't think that many people would have done as you Calalily.  If they were you, they wouldn't have joined TSR in the first place.  Could you honestly say that before the days of anti-paysite, you wouldn't have?  You might (probably will) not have joined, but certainly not everybody.  Hell, even me, if I could make a shirt, may have joined.

I agree that not many people would act that way (however, it was thrown as a sort of before you throw stones type dealie - I'm pointing out that I can toss all the stones I wish) - but I don't truck with mealy mouthing that someone should be let off because they were not thinking. Slippery slope and all that, everyone would be claiming stupidity for base behaviour.

[Saraswati]

Hi Guys

I'm confused.. I don't see Aikea or Gedya (sorry sp, it's late and I've just gotten home from work) knew about this.. I just revisited the Coconut blog to check..

I thought we'd already had this discussion with A and G and they admitted that they may have known about it and just forgotten? I've known about a truckload of stuff in my time, and I've seen those monolithic big sites in action up close.. As they've already said they don't feel that way anymore, shouldn't we just move on from the discussion? I mean, I wouldn't have a go at Sherry either, she's changed her mind about how she feels about stuff like that..

Kath

[Redikolous]

On one hand, I don't think that many people would have done as you Calalily.  If they were you, they wouldn't have joined TSR in the first place.  Could you honestly say that before the days of anti-paysite, you wouldn't have?  You might (probably will) not have joined, but certainly not everybody.  Hell, even me, if I could make a shirt, may have joined.

I agree that not many people would act that way (however, it was thrown as a sort of before you throw stones type dealie - I'm pointing out that I can toss all the stones I wish) - but I don't truck with mealy mouthing that someone should be let off because they were not thinking. Slippery slope and all that, everyone would be claiming stupidity for base behaviour.

My head is exploding here.  Recapping:

Okay, coconut posts about sharing paypal information.
We get pissed because Aikea and Geldyh didn't tell us.
Aikea says she paid little mind to it when there.
Coconut posts a screencap of one of her responses to the sharing.
We get pissed because we feel we've been lied to.

You're right about the mealy mouthing part, but we've ripped them a new one many times here.  Even with the clean slate we gave each other (A&G and the pirates), there's a lot of bad blood here.  They've apologized, but I'm not so sure what we're after here.  Are we mad because they didn't screencap every post of questionable legality?  And what about Coconut?  S/he still has access to this stuff, s/he's screencapping it, but I've no idea what she's doing for us.  This information in its entirety has been rehashed and released to Hecubus before.

[calalily]

I thought we'd already had this discussion with A and G and they admitted that they may have known about it and just forgotten?

She posted in the thread http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com/2008/10/07/

As they've already said they don't feel that way anymore, shouldn't we just move on from the discussion?

Yeah, cause sweeping it under the rug will mean it will never come up again, and there won't be a secret made about it this week.  Don't be naive.  Jessica of WickedSims published the names of donators this week, and got torn a new one on simsecret (and I got a very nice email apologising about it, so I presume others did too). If Aikea would like to deal with a diverse community up in arms, and the resulting fallout, she's free to ignore this whole thing.  Just because we move on, doesn't mean everyone else does too, and makes damn sure that she won't. I don't see it as helpful to let everyone in the community to tear into her everywhere - maybe you do. I didn't call her names and I wasn't rude or angry, but others reading this won't be so kind.

You're right about the mealy mouthing part, but we've ripped them a new one many times here.  

We didn't share their personal information here.  In fact, PMBD frowns upon that sort of Whois information for all paysites.

They've apologized, but I'm not so sure what we're after here.  

A clarification of what their position was, and perhaps an apology without reservations such as "I've left" "I wasn't thinking" "I didn't notice" "I hate TSR now" "I'm free now".

And what about Coconut?  S/he still has access to this stuff, s/he's screencapping it, but I've no idea what she's doing for us. 

Coconut's motives and reasons are unknown.  We cannot know this, and we cannot call them to account in any way, as we don't know how they got the information.  Nevertheless, the information provided has helped subscribers whose personal information has been shared.

[mustluvcatz]

Then how exactly does it pertain to this discussion at all?  For free sites, you get all the kudos from me.  For bad behaviour, just because you have a free site doesn't mean you get to do whatever you feel like. Consider those questions ignored.

This is how it pertains to this dicussion:
Aikea was a FA at TSR. She made one post, that we know of. Others involved in that thread made many, many more. Yet, none of them are having any of the "rage" invoked by this thread directed at them because they're NOT HERE. Aikea is. None of them are having their honesty questioned because they're NOT HERE. Aikea is.
I've been reading each post in this thread as it's made and it seems like Aikea is taking the brunt of everyone's outrage over this. Why? Because she was a FA at TSR, she posted in that thread and she's HERE. Everyone is entitiled to their opinions and everyone else is entitled to not agree with those opinions. Mine is that others here need to have someone to point their finger at and blame for what happened- Aikea is that person. And that confuses me because she didn't start that thread, she didn't name names, she didn't do the pee-pee dance over it....Yes, I understand that she didn't do anything to stop it, but I really don't see what she could've done- besides contact PayPal herself. Thomas would've kept the thread going even if Aikea had protested what was going on in that thread.
Wait...I'm getting side-tracked here. What else confuses me? From what I've read in other threads, most everyone here was thrilled to learn that Aikea was leaving TSR and starting up her own free site. I got the impression that she was respected for that. I also got the impression that many here are friendly with her. So- why turn on her now? The past is the past. Not much anyone can do about what happened.

Umm...for bad behavior etc., etc. I don't believe that anyone anywhere is trying to say the Aikea is sharing personal information she may get from her new site? When she was at TSR, since it has subscription-only downloads and she was a FA....TSR ain't a freesite and even if it were, nothing excuses what happened there.

Bah. To hell with it. I don't know why I'm bothering trying to explain my question and it's relevance to this thread to someone who deemed my questions ignorable.

[calalily]

Aikea was a FA at TSR. She made one post, that we know of. Others involved in that thread made many, many more. Yet, none of them are having any of the "rage" invoked by this thread directed at them because they're NOT HERE. Aikea is. None of them are having their honesty questioned because they're NOT HERE. Aikea is.

Which is why she's being given a chance to defend herself, and I didn't write her off as a complete bastard, but rather asked her questions about it and critiqued her position that was previously given.  I mean, if you'd prefer I write her off as a complete bastard, I can totally do that. 

Mine is that others here need to have someone to point their finger at and blame for what happened- Aikea is that person.

Rubbish. I don't blame her for the whole thread, just for her post in it.  That's hardly the vagueness she spoke about when she mentioned it as a glancing look. All the others are totally to blame for their own posts in it - just none of them have come here and given the impression they barely knew what it contains.

Yes, I understand that she didn't do anything to stop it, but I really don't see what she could've done- besides contact PayPal herself.

Or even not posted, giving it her tacit approval.

What else confuses me? From what I've read in other threads, most everyone here was thrilled to learn that Aikea was leaving TSR and starting up her own free site. I got the impression that she was respected for that. I also got the impression that many here are friendly with her. So- why turn on her now? The past is the past. Not much anyone can do about what happened.

Turn on her? Overreact much? I didn't swear, I didn't write her off - I asked for an answer to the questions raised by her posting as she previously has.

I can't believe I have to reiterate this *again*. I should make a copypasta of this and just paste it everytime a pirate doesn't see the difference because every time we question actions, some one says freesite!!!!1!!.  Disagreeing with a site owners actions has nothing to do with their site. It may have escaped your notice, but I own a freesite, and calling me to account as you just has is not an attack on my site, but a disagreement with me. So, if you want to follow the rule that way, better get some lube, because you're going to have to take all I dish out, owning a freesite and all.

Bah. To hell with it. I don't know why I'm bothering trying to explain my question and it's relevance to this thread to someone who deemed my questions ignorable.

You said it had nothing to do with the subject at hand here:

That question doesn't have a thing to do with that thread at TSR. It's about her leaving TSR and having a free site now. It has nothing to do with sharing information.

So why the hell did you ask it? Cause right now, we're talking about sharing personal information.

[Saraswati]

Thanks mate.. I missed that one. I thought I'd read all of the Coconut blog.

I dunno.. I've done stuff I regret in my life, and I know that, so on a personal level, I don't hold it against Aikea. I'm not suggesting we sweep this under the rug, but maybe once we get this sorted we don't recycle it like three week old socks?

[Redikolous]

Coconut's motives and reasons are unknown.  We cannot know this, and we cannot call them to account in any way, as we don't know how they got the information.  Nevertheless, the information provided has helped subscribers whose personal information has been shared.

And that makes all the difference, it seems.  We see Dot, Tug, Padre, Atwa, and Neptune Suzy posting in that thread from the beginning but no one is even attempting to sign their guestbooks or has really delved into it here.  A&G, however, are here and have been free for a bit so they get the flak?  They've said they weren't involved in the sharing of information, that they didn't know that it was illegal information and thought it was the trackers, and that the thread was largely ignored by her.  They've emphasized that they've left because that's a big thing with you guys, but they've scattered their reasoning for this since the info was announced.

Aikea is that person. And that confuses me because she didn't start that thread, she didn't name names, she didn't do the pee-pee dance over it....Yes, I understand that she didn't do anything to stop it, but I really don't see what she could've done- besides contact PayPal herself. Thomas would've kept the thread going even if Aikea had protested what was going on in that thread.

I agree with you there.

The biggest thing for me is that I thought Hecubus had this information for a long time, either that or that we all knew that Paypal information was being shared, we just didn't have screenshots?  This information is a year old.