More Smutty Than You: TSR's Hall of Shame

[Darqstar]

Yes, of course how it's handled is going to make a huge difference, but in the case of my friend, you can tell that kid till you're blue in the face that it's not her fault, but no matter what, she's been forced to pay for it.  Right now, the kid is doing all right, at least as far as I know (the family had to move over this, too traumatic for everyone.  I don't hear from her much anymore,  Christmas cards and we phone each other sometimes, but not like when she lived two doors down from us)      better than her parents, but she's just starting to get to the age where she's starting to talk about when she's married and has kids.   This girl will never have kids.  I'm not even sure if this kid will ever have a period.  Try cleaning up that mess.  Try giving that kid enough confidence to not feel like a victim, when from ages 11-50, she'll have reminders all the time of what happened.  When her friends talk about getting their periods.  "Not me guys! It's not my fault, but I was raped!"  Or, when all her friends are having babies.  "Sorry, can't have any of those, I was raped!  Not my fault though, so nope, not one of those crazy Childfree fanatics, just unlucky, I guess!"

Because of this kid and some other personal incidents, it irritates the snot out of me, when people seem to think they have a blanket of protection.  "Oh, I don't want my kids to be paranoid, so they all take Karate and then I don't have to worry about it."  Or, my favorite, "Oh, my kids are fine.  I've raised them to be careful," because that does pretty much say that anyone who's kids are victimized, it is the parent's fault. That if they were as good a parent as you are, they'd be fine.  Not true.  Sometimes all the caution in the world can't prevent disaster.  I don't think kids should be paranoid about it, kids have the right to live as carefree as possible, but on the other hand, I don't think it hurts for a parent to be aware either.  And not to dwell on a disaster that might never happen, but to have an idea of what should be done if it does happen. 

It's like firedrills.  Did you have family fire drills as a kid? We did.  My dad would round us up and we'd talk about what we'd do in case of a fire.  How we could get out of any room in the house.  We even practiced it.  My brother and I thought it was great fun, climbing out windows onto the roof, climbing down ladders, going across the street to wait for everyone else, having contests to see who could get to safety the fastest, while still being careful.    And we weren't the only family who did this on the street.  Then, along came smoke detectors and now when I ask my friends "Do you do fire drills with your kids like we used to?" They shake their heads, "Nah, the smoke detectors will let us know before it gets bad."  Meanwhile, people still die in fires, so while smoke alarms saved lives, it isn't a 100% effective insurance policy.  The smart thing is to have the smoke alarms, still make sure you have a back up plan on getting out of a burning house, and to have a knowledge of first aid and paid up health insurance, so if the worst happens, and a family member gets burned, they can get the best care possible to fix the problem. 

[neriana]

Not my fault though, so nope, not one of those crazy Childfree fanatics, just unlucky, I guess!"

Please tell me you're not saying that choosing not to have children makes one a crazy fanatic.

[dusdeedawn]

I kind of don't know what you're so adamant about, Darqstar. There is no blanket of protection, obviously. And what happened to that girl can never be taken back. Ever. But how does that make counseling after molestation bad? Or am I just misunderstanding your posts? Who said anything about a magical fix? I can see that you feel strongly about this topic, and in particular what happened to that kid, but there are plenty of others out there that have been badly hurt, and please don't think that you're the only one here with intimate knowledge of the subject.

There are things one can do after the fact that can help a person live after rape. Just identifying that a child has been molested/raped/abused is a hell of a lot better than no one knowing and the child keeping it all locked inside. Teaching their children everything they possibly can about how to avoid these things is most certainly something that any and every parent should do. Of course one should do 'fire drills', etc. Everyone should learn fire drills, have a smoke detector, and know how to use a fire extinguisher. But what happens when you're not in the house? Sometimes you have to go out shopping. Or attend high school. And sometimes you have to live with your brother, father, uncle, etc. Or need to use the bathroom on a Greyhound bus. And sometimes the shit happens anyway, and having someone know enough to help (i.e. parents or teachers, counselors, friends) can change everything but the fire. Sometimes, with enough support, you can rebuild the house. It will never be the same, but it's a far better option than living in a travel trailer.
Getting help after the fact is really important, and it's wonderful that people are better at recognizing when someone needs it than they once were. Because even condoms aren't 100% effective, and when one breaks, having a friend who cares enough to recommend the best diapers may mean the difference between no sleep and a few hour's sleep.

[Darqstar]

Not my fault though, so nope, not one of those crazy Childfree fanatics, just unlucky, I guess!"

Please tell me you're not saying that choosing not to have children makes one a crazy fanatic.

Nah, I actually am one of them childfree people myself.  But I have found that when I mention I am childfree, I then get, "You aren't one of those people on LJ that goes around talking about how much babies suck, are you?"  Or, I get, "Why not?  Don't you like kids?"   Since I am childfree, this doesn't bother me all that much.  But I do know people who couldn't have kids, who get really upset when people ask them why they can't have children and they're really quick to say, "No, I"m not childfree, I WANT children!"

In truth, no matter what group of people you deal with, some folks are cool, others are not, and some are just freakin' nuts.  Unfortunately, the nuts get all the attention.  Sadly, the childfree have gotten a bad rep because of some hardcore childfree people who make everyone look bad. 

I kind of don't know what you're so adamant about, Darqstar. There is no blanket of protection, obviously. And what happened to that girl can never be taken back. Ever. But how does that make counseling after molestation bad? Or am I just misunderstanding your posts? Who said anything about a magical fix? I can see that you feel strongly about this topic, and in particular what happened to that kid, but there are plenty of others out there that have been badly hurt, and please don't think that you're the only one here with intimate knowledge of the subject.

No, I am NOT saying therapy is bad. I"m all for anything that helps anyone cope from a tragedy, as long as it doesn't involve harming themselves or others.  I thought I clearly pointed out that sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you cannot save yourself or anyone else from bad things happening and you have to be able to go on and try to clean up the problem.  But that isn't easy. 

I think I got a little carried away, I admit it, but I live in an area with a lot of parents who seem to believe disaster will never happen to their kid.  Our area is very transient, and we get new "batches" of neighbors every couple years or so.  Lately, the parents seem to be rather willing to dismiss any potential trouble, with some sort of solution they've come up with.  "My kid takes self defense!"  or, "I taught my kid to scream if anyone touches him wrong!"  Or, "We're much more informed now, people are trained to spot those things, so if anyone does start messing with my kid, we'll see it coming and stop it before it gets bad."  Sometimes you can't stop it, because there is no warning.  And to expect the kid's teachers or any other adult but you (the parent) to be able to stop trouble, is just wrong.  It's great if they can and do, but I don't think any parent should feel that they don't have to worry because there are others that are "trained" to see symptoms. 

Sometimes there are no symptoms because things happen too fast (the case of my friend's daughter)  Sometimes there are no symptoms because the asshole who victimized them was very careful until the very end.  Sometimes symptoms get mistaken for other things instead.  And, a teacher with 25+ students, doesn't have time to analize your kid, the person with the most time to do that is the parent themselves. 

It would be nice to think that all the good people in the world would be looking out for your child as much as you yourself do, but it's just not possible.  I think being a parent is one of the hardest jobs in the world (hence why I didn't apply)  because you always have to look out for that kid, yet you have to not make the kid afraid of life either. 

The statement that set me off was someone saying that people are trained to notice these things.  It just came across too happy, like they were wadding up the chances of their kid ever being molested and tossing that out.  "Okay, we've got that covered, kid knows self defense, we have the code word, I'll take that off my list of things to worry about, cause now I know it ain't gonna happen!   And while no parent should be paranoid about child molesters/rapists, I also don't feel they can ever dismiss the possibility. 

EDIT TO add:  Rereading, I see where people might think that maybe I'm too paranoid, that our area is fine so why are people worried?  Our area is right between two homeless shelters and while most of the homeless are decent people just trying to survive, we've had a few who were not stable at all.  Also, we've got an abandoned garage where people who can't get into the shelter (overcrowding, or too messed up on drugs/alcohol) hang out.  This is NOT a safe area.  Kids have been attacked.  And not just molested, kids have been jumped for money too.  So yeah, the subject of "how safe are your kids" comes up quite a bit around here. 

[neriana]

Not my fault though, so nope, not one of those crazy Childfree fanatics, just unlucky, I guess!"

Please tell me you're not saying that choosing not to have children makes one a crazy fanatic.

Nah, I actually am one of them childfree people myself.  But I have found that when I mention I am childfree, I then get, "You aren't one of those people on LJ that goes around talking about how much babies suck, are you?"  Or, I get, "Why not?  Don't you like kids?"   Since I am childfree, this doesn't bother me all that much.  But I do know people who couldn't have kids, who get really upset when people ask them why they can't have children and they're really quick to say, "No, I"m not childfree, I WANT children!"

In truth, no matter what group of people you deal with, some folks are cool, others are not, and some are just freakin' nuts.  Unfortunately, the nuts get all the attention.  Sadly, the childfree have gotten a bad rep because of some hardcore childfree people who make everyone look bad. 

That's the problem of the people who are so rude as to ask about your choice to have children, though. I think everyone knows that some people are just nuts; people who assume everyone who exhibits one characteristic in common with someone who's nuts, is nuts in exactly the same way, are ignorant jerks. I'll blame nutters for their own craziness, but not for other peoples' incorrect responses to it. In this case, it would be like assuming that every parent is a selfish child-abuser because I've known parents who are selfish child-abusers. Or thinking every white male is a drug dealer because I've known white male drug dealers...

[CatOfWar]

I wonder what those who consider childfree people to be crazy think of nuns and monks?
Maybe they think being childfree is only okay if you have a very public "valid reason".  Harumph.

[pickles]

I'll make a deal with all the childless people. I won't judge you (honestly, I really don't care if you have kids, your sex life is none of my business) and in return, you don't tell me I'm wasting my life because I have some  Not that anyone here has said that. It's just a common refrain that wanting more than 2 kids = brainwashed/crazy/lolvaginahurrrr/DESTROYING THE EARTH omg.

[Darqstar]

That's the problem of the people who are so rude as to ask about your choice to have children, though.

I agree.  I think it's a very personal question, but to some it isn't, I don't know why, since the reasons why someone doesn't have kids could be nothing, or could be something very tragic.  I put this right up there with asking someone about a scar they have.  Once you're close enough friends, then it's fine.  But until then?  It's just wrong and none of your business.  

I think everyone knows that some people are just nuts; people who assume everyone who exhibits one characteristic in common with someone who's nuts, is nuts in exactly the same way, are ignorant jerks. I'll blame nutters for their own craziness, but not for other peoples' incorrect responses to it. In this case, it would be like assuming that every parent is a selfish child-abuser because I've known parents who are selfish child-abusers. Or thinking every white male is a drug dealer because I've known white male drug dealers...

I agree too.  I also though, can see some people's point with the LJ childfree group.   I was a member there, and a lot of the more vocal members are crazy and constantly bitch about children having the nerve to be... well, children.  There was one time when someone ranted and raved about a child being at a G rated disney flick in the afternoon.  Most people told this person they were crazy, that children SHOULD be at Disney flicks, but some agreed, and it got spread all over the net that childfree people were so insane that we felt kids shouldn't be allowed to go to G rated movies.  

There was a lot of bitching about children, but most of it, I took with a grain of salt. And I wished others could have seen it for what it was.  It was supposed to be a safe place for people to rant about kids.  Parents found out, and they'd join the group and flip their shit over what was being said.  

Also, some members would go around to baby boards or parenting sites and scream at the people.  Sadly, it tainted everyone in the group.  I had a hard time living that one down when I left.  "I can't believe you were a member!"  I actually like kids, as long as I can send 'em home with their parents within 48 hours.  But I do get irritated at parents who let their kids scream and yell in public and don't do anything to stop them.  Try at least!  Even if you don't succeed, the fact that you're trying will make me feel better, because now I don't have to try to calm your kid down!"  I hate seeing stressed out kids.  

[SoggyFox]

I'm childfree too, unless you count my five cats, snake and dog.  I'd love to have -a- child, because I think I have good genes and would be a good mother.  On the other hand, I'm almost 42 [20 days and counting >.>] and not in the best of health right now.

And the only people having children that bother me, are the ones who do it for the wrong reasons.

[neriana]

I'll make a deal with all the childless people. I won't judge you (honestly, I really don't care if you have kids, your sex life is none of my business)

What does having kids have to do with one's sex life? Seriously, it's pretty thoroughly disconnected now.

[dusdeedawn]

No, I am NOT saying therapy is bad. I"m all for anything that helps anyone cope from a tragedy, as long as it doesn't involve harming themselves or others.  I thought I clearly pointed out that sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you cannot save yourself or anyone else from bad things happening and you have to be able to go on and try to clean up the problem.  But that isn't easy.

Your whole post makes much more sense to me, thanks for elaborating.

[Skoria_Bay]

I agree too.  I also though, can see some people's point with the LJ childfree group.   I was a member there, and a lot of the more vocal members are crazy and constantly bitch about children having the nerve to be... well, children.  There was one time when someone ranted and raved about a child being at a G rated disney flick in the afternoon.  Most people told this person they were crazy, that children SHOULD be at Disney flicks, but some agreed, and it got spread all over the net that childfree people were so insane that we felt kids shouldn't be allowed to go to G rated movies.

The parents I get mad at are the ones who take their 6 or 7 year old to an R rated movie. Many years ago when "The Mummy" was first released (the remake with Brandon Frazier), my husband and I were at an 8pm show and a couple walked in with their 4 or 5 year old kid. First of all, I hope they loved having to deal with the nightmares that poor child would have had after seeing that movie. And second, why didn't they find a babysitter or wait for the movie on VHS? That's the kind of parenting I find very inappropriate. Heck yes, if I go see a Disney movie at 2 or 3 something in the afternoon I except find children there. Back in the 80's, I would be the only adult watching them without kids.

I too am childless and not sure of the cause. And yes, I'd love to have children.

Edit: To correct my grammer

[Eskimo Pie]

 That pisses me off too Skoria_Bay, seeing a child in a R rated movie!   If I actually get a chance to go out to an "adult" movie I do not want someone elses kids there ...not to mention wtf is the parents thinking!

   There is a line between wrapping your kids up in cotton and hiding them away from life in fear of them being hurt OR going the other way and thinking NOTHING will happen to your kids. I worry about my kids, I am careful were they go and what they do but I am not about to lock them in the basement either.

 I understand what Darstar is saying, there is many parents were I live who think nothing bad will ever happen because their kids live in a decent area,go to a decent school, know self defence.. that bad stuff only happens to "those people" referring to the lower income. Well we should know that is not true, it happens all the time.

 

[SoggyFox]

A friend saw Watchman opening weekend and there were 4 and 6 year old children there.  Parents who couldn't wait, and couldn't afford a sitter[but they could a movie ticket?!]

People who have children because its expected, then don't bother trying to be parents - people who have children because its their duty to their church, or to get more money from the government - those people I want to throttle.

And there is always adoption.  I'll ever be able to adopt, i don't think, all things considered, but, its an option.

[Immortelle]

I've seen what damage wrapping a child up in cotton wool does.  They grow up with poor coping skills, and the moment they get a sceric of freedom they derail.

I've also seen some rather extreme cases of allowing kids to be exposed to stuff from an early age too.  They grow up with some wierd ideas, funny morals etc.

I firmly believe that it is the duty of the parent to instill a sense of morals, and principles in their children.  You know, teach right from wrong, a respect for the law (yeah I know but I've known people with complete disrespect for the law.  They're in jail)  You know the basics: don't steal, don't kill or hurt people, respect other people and their property.  Oh yeah and make sure they have a good healty diet, teach proper hygene, etc.

I don't actually know if I want kids or not.  I'm probably infertal so meh