TSR Sharing your infomation!

[Missbonbon]

Oh I know that. It just makes me see red whenever I visit coconut's place. If I could see every last one of those people in person I would get them a rather long talking to about how to act like a decent human being.

Hell chaz is what 16?18? I know he's young. They don't even care about what standards they are setting for him. For Christ's sake.

[sherrie]

It got me just how many deleted posts were on there, concidering how hard Steve tried to convince the sheeple that this was a secure, private, super secret thread, it's funny how they made sure stuff that was sensitive to them never got out.

[littlemisspirate]

My pleasure, Hecubus.  I read more carefully and now I'm playing with the idea of seeing if I can find some of the 3D models FAs are importing - and, more importantly, check out their ToAs.   

Heh, it's Calalily. Not Hecubus. It doesn't bother me, except, well. Welcoming gratitude, you're doing it wrong

   I wanted to make believe I lived in New York for a while.

Oops, sorry about that!  For some reason I saw that and read Hecubus.  I guess at that time of night after 10 hours at work at 3 hours mocking the Presidential debate my eyes play tricks on me.  On the plus side, you got to visit New York. 

[Zazazu]

I'll be honest here, bare honesty, so please don't spork. Before I found PMBD I thought some of the FA work was good. There are still maybe one or two I make the hassle of searching the booty for.

I think all but one of the FAs I ever really liked the work of have "retired". I used to love Sunair's work...then I got a new computer. *gag*  The only one I currently like the works of Cashcraft and CycloneSue. I like some of MSBarrows's works. That's about it. However, I haven't downloaded a thing from TSR's booty for months...at least four months. My downloading overall is down, but when I do download, I generally just check MTS2 and a few smaller freesites.

I don't think there's anything wrong with liking FA creations, or not liking freesite creations. It's FA/paysite practices that are up for mocking, and throwing in a jibe at a shitty mesh is free game.

[SoggyFox]

Though, I would -love- to have images of those posts before they were deleted.  It is possible some of the FAs stood up...

[dietofworms]

Hey, I've got a question.  When Thomas wrote that sharing TSR's files is illegal, is there any law anywhere to support that?  Let's pretend, as in his best case scenario (a/k/a/ the empty chambers of his mind), the EULA isn't clear; their artists actually own the copyright to their stuff, and by  contracting with TSR, have assigned the copyrights to them.  Even iif that were the case, would sharing the stuff break the law?  From what I've heard and read, IP law is so murky on issues like these that "illegal" doesn't apply.

It's a moot question because his best case scenario is pure bs, but I'm curious about why he pulled the "illegal" stuff out of his ass.

(Sorry if this isn't coherent, I'm sick and my brain hurts).

[SoggyFox]

He pulled it out of his ass because alot of people either don't bother checking this for themselves, or are too young to question someone in authority when they state such shit.  He's hoping that if it sounds official, than the sheeple will go 'Oh, of -course- its illegal.

[sherrie]

Adding to that question, if indeed in a parallel universe, Thomass was right and the artists DID own the rights, Thomass 'signs' a contract with the designer to pay them $ worked out on a download basis. he pays them monthly for each block of 10,000 downloads they recieved for the total amount of creations they have on the site. Then the artist leaves or is booted, would it then be illegal for him to continue to use their work which they have an (imaginary) legal right to, without paying them? Does a contact not have 2 sides? For it to work legally he would have to own the rights, which would mean he would have to buy the rights off the artist in a one off payment for each file. But he doesn't, he 'leases' the rights monthly per download block, and with any lease, when you stop paying, you stop using the product.

[EbonyRye]

T$R is at the moment i would say like the stock market "about to crash"

After not being banned on T$R for the mail sent to them being questioned
about their file sharing activities. My sister just sent the follwoing request.

Could you please Delete my account  any of my information from your servers. I do not wish to be a member of a site that shares the real names of people and their email addresses even if it is with staff. It is Illegal to do so and you have broken the TOU for paypal by doing so. I do not trust TSR at all  and consider what you have done an utter disgrace to the Sims Community. I will be also voicing my opinion with EA Games. I am so very dissapointed.

She has made screen captures and fully intends to go to EA with the intitial post T$R's reply and her rant about the legalities ect.

I was wondering if we all did the same thing asking for our accounts to be deleted ect,  unsubscribed and uneeded of course, the reaction Thomarse
would have then.    Only an idea but damn a hard hitting one for T$R!

[Missbonbon]

Hey, I've got a question.  When Thomas wrote that sharing TSR's files is illegal, is there any law anywhere to support that?  Let's pretend, as in his best case scenario (a/k/a/ the empty chambers of his mind), the EULA isn't clear; their artists actually own the copyright to their stuff, and by  contracting with TSR, have assigned the copyrights to them.  Even iif that were the case, would sharing the stuff break the law?  From what I've heard and read, IP law is so murky on issues like these that "illegal" doesn't apply.

The only way it would illegal, is if he had a legal document stating copyright on every last creation hosted onto his website. That would be impossible because

A. People like Chaz who photoskin celebs. He can't copyright a person, unless he copyrights their name. Nine times out of ten, the management agency copyrights the name.
B. People like to make Disney shit. That in itself is a copyright infringement on Disney's part. If Disney really wanted to, they could sue every last person who used those images.
C. So many people pull textures from other people, other websites, and other creator's. Tom would literally have to own every last texture put onto that website, but with the way people get their resources, it's virtually impossible.

Not to mention the recolors of other people's meshes. If their TOS says no recolors, like Helga's does, then every last recolor on that website is in violation of that TOS.

Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Adding to that question, if indeed in a parallel universe, Thomass was right and the artists DID own the rights, Thomass 'signs' a contract with the designer to pay them $ worked out on a download basis. he pays them monthly for each block of 10,000 downloads they recieved for the total amount of creations they have on the site. Then the artist leaves or is booted, would it then be illegal for him to continue to use their work which they have an (imaginary) legal right to, without paying them? Does a contact not have 2 sides? For it to work legally he would have to own the rights, which would mean he would have to buy the rights off the artist in a one off payment for each file. But he doesn't, he 'leases' the rights monthly per download block, and with any lease, when you stop paying, you stop using the product.

Your question is kinda confusing, but I'll do my best to try and answer what I see it as.

SO I would say both yes and no. They could sign a contract that basically states that as long as said creator is there, they will receive a percentage of the profits. Kinda like artists and cd's. Whenever that creator leaves, he could continue selling the product, but he would still have to pay the creator a sum of the profits from that particular object.

Or he could just buy the creations outright, and not pay the creator a single dime after the initial amount.

[scrappysim]

That is still only half of the problem he would have.  What about the contract that he would have to have with the downloader.  There would have to be some contract that once the files were purchased that they could not be shared.  I dont mean a TOU because that is not a binding contract.  Once I buy something it becomes mine and I can share it if I want.  As long as I am not selling it I technically shouldn't be violating anyone's copyright so he would have to get all the subscribers to "sign" a legal contract stating that it is illegal for them to share anything after it is bought and payed for.  When he states "illegal" he seems to be mistaking "you violated my TOU!" with some actual Law.

[Missbonbon]

That is still only half of the problem he would have.  What about the contract that he would have to have with the downloader.  There would have to be some contract that once the files were purchased that they could not be shared.  I dont mean a TOU because that is not a binding contract.  Once I buy something it becomes mine and I can share it if I want.  As long as I am not selling it I technically shouldn't be violating anyone's copyright so he would have to get all the subscribers to "sign" a legal contract stating that it is illegal for them to share anything after it is bought and payed for.  When he states "illegal" he seems to be mistaking "you violated my TOU!" with some actual Law.

Honestly there would be no contract to the downloader within the file itself. He could set it up, that whenever you register onto his site, you enter a legal binding contract to not share the files. It's like Adobe photoshop. The EULA states you cannot share the program, and certain things in the program are not yours no matter what. Just because you bought it doesn't make it yours. Or take cd's. In my itunes right now I have well over 500 songs from cd's I own. Most of my cd's aren't even in my itunes. But just because I bought them, doesn't mean I can post them to limewire. By buying that cd, I agreed to the record company's and the artists copyright that the cd in question is their piece of work and not mine to freely distribute.

Now could Thomass do this? No. For the reasons I stated above. His website, and his creator's have violated a lot of EULA's, and copyrights. Not to mention for him to do this, the sim files would have to be contained in a different file type other than the .package. It would have to be a file type TSR created that works with the TS2. Then he could copyright the file type, and anything in that file type would be his. But to me this would be impossible since I have never seen another file type.

Now when Thomass spills and froths from the mouth about "pirates" breaking laws, he is talking about TOU. Basically what they have is a general TOU for all their files. TOU is a verbal contract, or in this case a digital contract. Unless there was some way for him to prove that downloader A agreed and signed to TOU and that there was a third party to witness, and sign as well, his case is null and void.

I could be wrong about all this though so please take what I say with a grain of sand.

[dietofworms]

Well, if you buy a book, let's say, you can't xerox it and give the copy to another person without breaking copyright. And that's not a matter of contract, you don't have to agree not to make copies when you buy a book.  It's the norm.  But copyright is well established in publishing.  It's not iwhen it comes to  pixels.  And as Miss Bonbon says, ownership of the little pixel people or items in any case is all tangled up because of artists' appropriations of materials that other people have copyright over. So for Thomas to get on his high horse and call other people thieves or whatever is really, really ironic.

I think you're right, Miss Bonbon. We make no legal agreement with Thomas or any of the artists not to share their work.  Which isn't really theirs to begin with.

[Darqstar]

After not being banned on T$R for the mail sent to them being questioned
about their file sharing activities. My sister just sent the follwoing request.

Could you please Delete my account  any of my information from your servers. I do not wish to be a member of a site that shares the real names of people and their email addresses even if it is with staff. It is Illegal to do so and you have broken the TOU for paypal by doing so. I do not trust TSR at all  and consider what you have done an utter disgrace to the Sims Community. I will be also voicing my opinion with EA Games. I am so very dissapointed.

She has made screen captures and fully intends to go to EA with the intitial post T$R's reply and her rant about the legalities ect.

Your sister is 28 flavors of awesome!

[Darqstar]

And to deelink, sherrie, Missbonbon, Redikolous, BlackDwarf, EbonyRye and Ry - fair enough. We're good.

I did miss it the first time around, but I'm glad I caught it now.  And I'm glad we're good.

EDIT:  *Kicks self in the ass*  I am sorry about the double post.  I really did think someone else had posted to this thread after I'd posted earlier.  Sorry, blame the medication.  (I am pretty messed up right now...)