For NeptuneSuzy

[Redikolous]

liegenschonheit, you make me feel humbled by your post.  I'm not a html-jockey-have-my-own-website type a person, so I don't know the costs of hosting a website and servers and all that jazz.  It was nice to get a freesite owner's perspective on costs.  Ever since I've seen the donation drive at MTS2, I don't see the hosting cost argument either.  If your stuff is good, and people regularly troll around your site, when donation time comes, people will donate if they have the money, be it five dollars or a hundred.  I know when I get some money the first thing I'll do is donate to MTS2.

[MIKEY]

MIKEY, I didn't lump you in with the others, now did I? I said that I had no problem with you. I said I had a problem with sites like TSR, didn't I? That wasn't fair to assume that I had lumped you in with the idiots and assholes league, when in fact that I stated that I had no problem with you. Although, I may if that keeps up. So far, I like you. I enjoy your postings. But if you're gonna make statements that indicate that what I say means less to you than a pimple on a flea's ass, I will proceed to ignore you. No cookies from my oven for you.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  LOL.  Again with the literal-taking.  Not meant to be aimed at you personally, but as a generalization.  Me so sorry.  Maybe it's all summed up by that old Vulcan saying, "Only Nixon could go to China"?

MIKEY!!!

P.S.  BTW, y'all mean more to me than a pimple on a fleas ass.  Really!

[calalily]

But what if we narrow this down to my site alone?  Then what might be your arguments?

Okay, I'll narrow it down to your site alone.

1. Access to minors

Plenty of free sites have adult sections - and some adult content is available to your front page - you can't really tell me that people send money to you even though they don't know what they're paying for.  The free sites that have adult sections - you have to apply in the forum.  It's easy enough to watch someone tooling around and guess their age.  You could make a minimum of 50 posts or some such to really guard it.

2. Donation

If you are indeed one big family, you could ask family members to pitch in.

3. Alternative methods:

- Load images to imageshack
- Load files to 4shared, or some other site, and people can be sent the link
- Make your files fileshare friendly like Ren of Rensims did - and then there's no problem.

[Jaida]

Mikey minors have access to your adult items because all pay items are put in the booty. Same with Pandora Sims and XXX Sims. I'm 17 and able to download for those sites but not inSimAdult or SexySims2, why? Because they're free, no pay items, no booty. Understand?

[MIKEY]

Mikey minors have access to your adult items because all pay items are put in the booty. Same with Pandora Sims and XXX Sims. I'm 17 and able to download for those sites but not inSimAdult or SexySims2, why? Because they're free, no pay items, no booty. Understand?

Whoa. Back the truck up.  Because someone steals a crate of guns from a gun store and makes them available to anyone, no matter the age, doesn't mean the store owner is responsible.  Understood?  And if you are 17 and downloading Adult content, I would expect your parents should be doing something about that.  As well, thank you for making my point on how my way is better to safeguard minors, than 'the booty'.

Also, because you are 'honest' about your age on Insim & SexSims, THAT is why you cannot download the content there.  If you lied (heaven forbid someone would be so immoral) you could download to your hearts content.

Your 'logic' is flawed, thus your methodology is also flawed.


And;

Calalily, we used to do that and our site was far less efficient for our members than it is now.  Thanks for the suggestions, but we have been there, done that, and bought the T-shirt.  LOL

As I stated earlier, we are not AGAINST going 'free', we are just going to do it by our own terms.  It is you methodology that we object to and find fault with.

[SparklePlenty]

As I stated earlier, we are not AGAINST going 'free', we are just going to do it by our own terms.  It is you methodology that we object to and find fault with.

 Back at ya.

[Jaida]

Yes Mikey, but if I lied about my age then Kathy would know and ban me, it's really easy to find out one's age. Delphy and Kathy have both done it and banned a lot of people for it. I also said that I am ABLE to download from the booty. But if we didn't have paysites then minors wouldn't have access to it.

Also, we don't steal. So your gun example sucks. Read the EULA and sfv for that matter.

To answer your question: Yes, running a paysite featuring content for the Sims 2 is considered to be a violation of both the Electronic Arts Terms of Service and copyright law. This includes both content that is sold directly and content that is offered as part of a subscription service. Additionally, the intent behind providing these tools to the Sims 2 community was to promote the sharing of content, not commercial activity. If you know of a site that is offering Sims 2 content as a pay-service, we would ask that you please let us know so that we can take the appropriate steps to address the situation.

Source

We're not stealing from anyone, YOU are.

[Tchannie]

As for this minors argument, when I was 16 I set my MTS2 account to say I was 18, and changed it when I was 17 to say I was 18...and now I'm nearly 18 I want to actually make it back to normal so I'm NOT breaking the rules. I can't. It's frozen, dammit. Any chance of a boss person fixing my accout for me without banning me for my teenaged stupidity that I've been trying to rectify for a year?
But I'm still 17 on Insim. I didn't even know there was an InsimAdult until this year, lol.

[MIKEY]

Yes Mikey, but if I lied about my age then Kathy would know and ban me, it's really easy to find out one's age. Delphy and Kathy have both done it and banned a lot of people for it. I also said that I am ABLE to download from the booty. But if we didn't have paysites then minors wouldn't have access to it.

Also, we don't steal. So your gun example sucks. Read the EULA and sfv for that matter.

To answer your question: Yes, running a paysite featuring content for the Sims 2 is considered to be a violation of both the Electronic Arts Terms of Service and copyright law. This includes both content that is sold directly and content that is offered as part of a subscription service. Additionally, the intent behind providing these tools to the Sims 2 community was to promote the sharing of content, not commercial activity. If you know of a site that is offering Sims 2 content as a pay-service, we would ask that you please let us know so that we can take the appropriate steps to address the situation.

Source

We're not stealing from anyone, YOU are.

"Back at ya", and vice versa and all that good stuff...

Sorry, but again it all comes down to where you get your facts from.  Some say the EULA is binding because you HAVE TO click the 'I agree' button...Some say the EULA is unclear...Some say blah blah blah...we've all heard the different arguments...

Point of fact, SOME games don't give you the option of 'agreeing' to the EULA.  They just assume because you are installing it, you have agreed to it.

For sure, the company the game came from will tell you, "Oh yeah. It's binding. Really"

However, some independently polled legal reps (lawyers and such) will tell you that as there is nothing to 'sign', or because most stores will not take back an opened game, that you are coerced into accepting the 'agreement'.  Now prove to me who is right...

Okay. SO I'm telling you right here, if a bone-fide legal rep of EA tells the community "Hey, you can't do that under penalty of law!"; I'll stop on a freakin' dime.

As well, even if I am right, you are still going against the intent of the site owners, thus you, for all intents and purposes are stealing.  And even if we go with your viewpoint, 2 rights do not make a wrong.

Now.  Again I tell you, it is you methods that I scrutinize, and not your beliefs.

If this helps, the following is my viewpoint;
Beliefs can't by definition be wrong or right.  Which is why I respect yours and you should respect mine.  What should be done is fine common ground between the 2, so they can co-exist peaceably, or go to our separate corners and live with it.  I would prefer peaceful coexistence, and my belief is that this is possible.

And your example still sucks itself, my friend.  As also the last time I heard, EA had retracted that statement, which nullifies any point you try to make with it.  It also happens to throw a shadow over the whole argument.  But whether or not I am right or you are wrong, show me where vigilante justice is a good thing?  Because that is what you are doing.  EA is acting fast enough for your tastes, so you are trying to make the decision for them.

[AW]

Actually, stores will take back defective and opened software.  I exchanged my Pets for a new one because one of the cds did not read properly.

As to "intellectual property" it differs from "virtual intellectual property".  There was a complete study done by the New York Law Review.  Also, you cannot copyright without express permission to claim copyright by the rightful owner.  Even though EA says that you can create custom content, they actually own the rights to it.  No one has been hired or commissioned by EA to provide intellectual property.  

As to the booty.  Look on the bright side, should you lose all your pay files, you can just get them from the booty.   I think of the booty as off-site file storage.  Plus, I don't consider it stealing.  Since all files are paid for and funds are exchanged, their is no written guarantee or warranty provided for the purchaser.  In real terms, if I were to buy a painting from a famous artist, that artist can say "I don't want my work hanging in a museum for everyone, it's special to me, I created it", but because I have paid for it, I am not claiming it as my own and I am not profitting from it, if I want to hang it in the New York Museum of Art, I will.  The artist has sold his right to have a say in what I do with the product I purchased.  And, I want everyone who goes to the museum to see exactly what kind of artist he is.

In fact the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) has distinct practices for E-Commerce and is a consumer advocate as well as establishing guidelines to ensure consumer protection and compensation.  According to the FTC, you must

.. provide truthful, accurate and complete information to consumers, and avoid deceptive, misleading or unfair claims, omissions or practices.

 In effect, if you photoshop items for subscription purposes you are not fairly representing your product.  This also includes "buyer beware" information such as EP incompatibility, additional meshes, package over-writing, animation issues and/or a high poly count as some examples.

For too long of a time, this community has fallen victim to unfair practices of paysites.  With no recourse of resolution, the purchaser or customer is stuck with a great percentage of unuseable or undesireable content.  I have donated my unwanted content to the booty.

Now, as to the "signing" of the agreement.  I am afraid your legal eagles are not exactly right.  Could be a country issue, but EA is a US corporation, therefore all rights are reserved as such.  When you install the game, the terms and EULA are available online and inside the packaging.   By install, you are consenting.  An example, you are driving 65 mph in a 45 mph speed zone.  You are pulled over by a policeman.  You say "Well, I didn't know the speed limit was 45" - you are still getting a ticket because the information was posted, visible but you chose not to avail yourself of the appropriate speed limit postings provided for you.  Therefore, ignorance does not preclude guilt.

EDIT:  EA is also rated for a specific age.  EA allows no adult content or fansites with adult content to be included, uploaded or linked to the Official EA Site.

[Jaida]

Mikey please tell me what lawyer or anyone relevant to EA or the law you've talked to. I have 5 responses from EA that say paysites are wrong. Please do some more research and try again. :mrgreen:

[MIKEY]

Mikey please tell me what lawyer or anyone relevant to EA or the law you've talked to. I have 5 responses from EA that say paysites are wrong. Please do some more research and try again. :mrgreen:

It all depends on what lawyer yer talking to.  And that is my point.  EA needs to step up and take the reins as it is the result of their indecisiveness that this debacle exists.  The fact that EA allows it to nurture and grow is enough proof to me that is naught but a stunt to gain them more profit.

[MIKEY]

Actually, stores will take back defective and opened software.  I exchanged my Pets for a new one because one of the cds did not read properly.

As to "intellectual property" it differs from "virtual intellectual property".  There was a complete study done by the New York Law Review.  Also, you cannot copyright without express permission to claim copyright by the rightful owner.  Even though EA says that you can create custom content, they actually own the rights to it.  No one has been hired or commissioned by EA to provide intellectual property.  

As to the booty.  Look on the bright side, should you lose all your pay files, you can just get them from the booty.   I think of the booty as off-site file storage.  Plus, I don't consider it stealing.  Since all files are paid for and funds are exchanged, their is no written guarantee or warranty provided for the purchaser.  In real terms, if I were to buy a painting from a famous artist, that artist can say "I don't want my work hanging in a museum for everyone, it's special to me, I created it", but because I have paid for it, I am not claiming it as my own and I am not profitting from it, if I want to hang it in the New York Museum of Art, I will.  The artist has sold his right to have a say in what I do with the product I purchased.  And, I want everyone who goes to the museum to see exactly what kind of artist he is.

In fact the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) has distinct practices for E-Commerce and is a consumer advocate as well as establishing guidelines to ensure consumer protection and compensation.  According to the FTC, you must

.. provide truthful, accurate and complete information to consumers, and avoid deceptive, misleading or unfair claims, omissions or practices.

 In effect, if you photoshop items for subscription purposes you are not fairly representing your product.  This also includes "buyer beware" information such as EP incompatibility, additional meshes, package over-writing, animation issues and/or a high poly count as some examples.

For too long of a time, this community has fallen victim to unfair practices of paysites.  With no recourse of resolution, the purchaser or customer is stuck with a great percentage of unuseable or undesireable content.  I have donated my unwanted content to the booty.

Now, as to the "signing" of the agreement.  I am afraid your legal eagles are not exactly right.  Could be a country issue, but EA is a US corporation, therefore all rights are reserved as such.  When you install the game, the terms and EULA are available online and inside the packaging.   By install, you are consenting.  An example, you are driving 65 mph in a 45 mph speed zone.  You are pulled over by a policeman.  You say "Well, I didn't know the speed limit was 45" - you are still getting a ticket because the information was posted, visible but you chose not to avail yourself of the appropriate speed limit postings provided for you.  Therefore, ignorance does not preclude guilt.

EDIT:  EA is also rated for a specific age.  EA allows no adult content or fansites with adult content to be included, uploaded or linked to the Official EA Site.

You can return defective product, you cannot return it because you don't agree with the EULA.  LOL

As well, the speed limit sign would have been posted in plain sight, and if you missed it, it was due to negligence or an obstruction.  The EULA is IN the packaging.  Thus, you do not have visibility to it until you open the package...Alas, it is too late...LOL


EDIT:  CRAP!!!  I double posted again...Ahhhh...Will you take a slightly used copy of Pac Man as penance?

[Jaida]

It all depends on what lawyer yer talking to.  And that is my point.  EA needs to step up and take the reins as it is the result of their indecisiveness that this debacle exists.  The fact that EA allows it to nurture and grow is enough proof to me that is naught but a stunt to gain them more profit.

Uhm, they have. That's my point. Do your damn homework and you'll know that too.

[MIKEY]

It all depends on what lawyer yer talking to.  And that is my point.  EA needs to step up and take the reins as it is the result of their indecisiveness that this debacle exists.  The fact that EA allows it to nurture and grow is enough proof to me that is naught but a stunt to gain them more profit.

Uhm, they have. That's my point. Do your damn homework and you'll know that too.

When?  I see no public announcement anywhere.  I even Googled(That sounds real dirty)

In fact, the last I heard, and this was on MTS2 itself, folks were pissed because they recanted the last known statement, and promised to make a new one soon...