TSR Sharing your infomation!

[calalily]

Okay, possibly I missed it, but what exactly is the one question that hasn't been answered? Calalily, I went through and read your posts and didn't see any of your questions; statements, replies, yes, but no questions. Granted, I could have missed something entirely.

I didn't perhaps make myself completely clear, so it boils down to this one simple line:

Does she not bear the responsibility for posting in that thread, or is it all someone else's (be that Atwat specifically or TSR generally) fault?

[neriana]

OFF TOPIC:
Soggyfox:

Only Blizzard or its licensees have the right to host the Game. You may not host or provide matchmaking services for the Game, or intercept, emulate or redirect the proprietary communication protocols used by Blizzard in connection with the Program, regardless of the method used to do so. Such prohibited methods may include, but are not limited to, protocol emulation, reverse engineering, modifying the Program, adding unauthorized components to the Program, or using a packet sniffer while the Program is running.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=DA543F51E1FA7779B8AA0AF4CE406E93?topicId=4913973005&sid=1

ON TOPIC:
I agree with Calalily. I'd say more but I have to run to class.

[SoggyFox]

Then they don't enforce it any more than EA does theirs.  I've even seen private servers advertised on the wow official forums.

[Sherry]

To kinda agree with BlackDwarf sometimes you don't particularly question a process that you think is the norm, even when it's happening to you or around you, even if it should register that it may infact be unlawful. 

When I was banned from several sites years ago in the land of TS1, back when there were only about 20 other fileshares at the SFV, I knew it was the result of my information being shared.  I knew because the owner of Savage Sims went so far to say it was on his forum.  My name, My IP, my emails, my username were shared with a handful of sites (TSR, Simfreaks, WDS, Simbellas ...may have been more but I don't even remember), and publicly offered to other paysites who may have wanted it.  Heck there was even a BlackBook forum on ezboard you could get onto if you were a creator with a paysite to access all this information gathered on the likes of myself and others.  That was also public knowledge.  Many people knew of it and not a damn person criticized them at all for it.  Everyone shrugged it off as a just something that was the norm for the time, and that was thousands of sim players. 

Those things have all but been forgotten.  Even more recent events, like Lyric & Rose sharing information still is a shocker to some and from what I hear even being censored by others.   I guess what I am trying to say is, maybe it's not even particularly relevant at this point in the discussion, but what's salient information to one person and worthy of memory retention is not necessarily to another no matter how important others think it is.   

[dietofworms]

Cala wrote:  " I can't find "demand" in my posts and I can't find "owe" either.  Please quote these posts, as I can't find them, and I'd be happy to apologise for using such words."

Cala, I never used the word "demand".  I did say "owe", which I presumed is what you meant when you wrote:

"So why exactly is it bad to expect an unreserved apology?"

Sorry if I misunderstood you,

[aikea_guinea]

Calalily, I'm not sure how you've gotten the impression that I don't take full responsibility for things I've said/posted in the past in any thread, but that's just not the case.  I've said it over and over again that I do, with and without explanation.  I can't help but feel there's some sort of gigantic misunderstanding happening here.  

Just so everyone knows, coconut has contacted me and said that I do indeed have a second and final post in the thread.  S/he's even sent me a screencap of said comment, which is post #396, from late January of this year.  I'm not sure if s/he would rather I allow him/her to post the comment at the appropriate time or I'd just post it outright, but I stand by my (many times now stated) taking responsibility for things I've posted.

[FreeShitOnly]

Great! So, now that we've cleared that up.....

Does anyone know what happens to a site who violates Paypal's TOU?  Heard any stories about possible repurcussions?
What if TSR were to lose it's account with Paypal?  *gasp* 

[Darqstar]

To kinda agree with BlackDwarf sometimes you don't particularly question a process that you think is the norm, even when it's happening to you or around you, even if it should register that it may infact be unlawful. 

TSR is also really good at arguing their point.  The only time I was able to discuss it with anyone, their basis of argument was that EA/Maxis knew what they were doing and even encouraged them (encouraging meaning that they invited them to all events and advertised the site on theirs)  so, if they didn't care, why should other folks?  And, I have to admit, I saw that POV at the time.   If EA didn't care if folks charged, then why should it matter?  The EULA I saw as just a way for EA to cover their butts so folks didn't steal the game, repackage it, and claim it to be theirs.  

I only began to question if pay sites were wrong when I realized it was hurting the community.    

My name, My IP, my emails, my username were shared with a handful of sites (TSR, Simfreaks, WDS, Simbellas ...may have been more but I don't even remember), and publicly offered to other paysites who may have wanted it.

Okay, that is totally wrong.  However, was there really much good in offering your IP?  Even if they were giving out your IP address, wasn't it all pretty much just dial up then, so the IP address would change on a regular basis?  As for your real name and the other stuff, that's horrible.  

  Many people knew of it and not a damn person criticized them at all for it.  Everyone shrugged it off as a just something that was the norm for the time, and that was thousands of sim players. 

I'm shocked.  No, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I wasn't around at the time.  Yes, I played Sims 1, but I never created and I never really tried to reach out to the community.  I downloaded my stuff, played my game, and kept to myself.   But I'm just having trouble grasping that someone didn't think it was wrong to share personal information on anyone, no matter what the purpose.  

[calalily]

Cala wrote:  " I can't find "demand" in my posts and I can't find "owe" either.  Please quote these posts, as I can't find them, and I'd be happy to apologise for using such words."

Cala, I never used the word "demand".  I did say "owe", which I presumed is what you meant when you wrote:

"So why exactly is it bad to expect an unreserved apology?"

Sorry if I misunderstood you,

Sorry - Phelim said demand, not you. 

Expect does not equal owe.  I expected that she would just say sorry and leave it at that - I never said she owed anything to me.

Calalily, I'm not sure how you've gotten the impression that I don't take full responsibility for things I've said/posted in the past in any thread, but that's just not the case.  I've said it over and over again that I do, with and without explanation.   

I'm happy that you do indeed take full responsibility for your actions. Despite the bullshit said about me in this thread, that is all I thought you needed to say.  Now that I know that, I'd be willing to go to the mat in an argument, providing that second screenshot doesn't show you actually posting names and emails.

I can't help but feel there's some sort of gigantic misunderstanding happening here. 

Well as soon as I stated that you had responsibility, for the last twelve hours, I've had all kinds of people posting vitriol at me for daring to suggest it. Most of the last five pages of the thread is that vitriol and my responses, rather than anything en pointe about you. 

I felt that posting all those explanations was a way of deflecting blame, rather than accepting it.

[Paden]

*kicks bus* I never threw anyone under the damn thing... Anyhow, this was quite something to log in and see. I respect and like A&G for the work they've done since they've gone free. I respect and like Cala for the brain that never sleeps and for what she does for the community. Everyone bears responsibility for what they've said or done in the past, even if they don't remember it. Even while brainwashed, a person has to take the responsibility for what they've done. It also has to be taken into account that people have recanted the beliefs they held while under the thumb of a fascist regime, which is basically what TSR is...

The thing is; you accept the past and apologize to those that were damaged and try to go forward as best you can. You try to ignore the ones howling for your blood when you've already paid for what has happened. You try to make amends for what's gone before and make sure that it never happens again. And you walk with your head held high and never let anyone put you in that place again.

Cala has made good points here, as have other people in this whole thread. No one in this life gets a get out of jail free card, it doesn't work like that. Everyone is accountable for their actions and will have to answer for them some day. But, once they've answered and the penalty has been paid, be it an apology or what have you, then the time of punishment is over and should not continue afterwards.

I respect all of you in this forum that have made valid points and asked any kind of question. I have tried to read it all and comprehend it all. (Weary brain doesn't always take in what is written.) What is boils down to is this: The information we've gotten has inflamed us and is causing us to want to nail TSR to the wall and dry the hide for some kind of use. That is where we need to take action, against them. Yes, A&G were a part of that culture for a time, and yes, they are responsible for what was done. If any apologies are needed, they ought to be proffered. But, once that is done, the issue of their culpability should be laid to rest. And no, frying them if further shit comes to light is not fair. It's like double jeopardy, being tried for the same thing twice. Let's not do that.

[Zazazu]

To kinda agree with BlackDwarf sometimes you don't particularly question a process that you think is the norm, even when it's happening to you or around you, even if it should register that it may infact be unlawful. 

How many of us here once had a subscription to a paysite (not used for sharing here)? I'm raising my own hand, and I'm sure many of you also are.

How many of us here once said something against people who might be filesharing before they knew about this site? Again, I'm raising my own hand.

How many of us here publicly stated that they thought paysite owners deserved to be paid for their work? Hmm...my hand's still up. I suspect quite a few others are.

My point? The paysite mentality brainwashes. It's near a cult, really, and TSR is the cultiest of them all. All of us who ever paid for a subscription or a donation file to a paysite aided the breaking of the EULA. All of us who did are guilty. I don't see us persecuting each other. I don't see us asking each other to be held accountable for paying for a year of TSR. I don't see us asking each other to explain, and then try harder when that explanation doesn't meet our standards.

Aikea made one post in one thread over a year ago. She forgot about it. Do you remember each and every post you've ever made? The thread was alluded to and she then remembered seeing it. Then it's posted and hey...she made one two-three sentence remark in it. OMG She's an evil liar! OMG she needs to apologize now! She needs to explain herself! Get over it. It was over a year ago. She didn't share the names, and she was caught up in mob mentality. She currently has a freesite and she is active in the free community. This isn't about not being accountable. This is about not having much of anything to be accountable for. She didn't post the names. She didn't cry for more blood. She said people should just get subscriptions already. Doi. Standard TSR brainwashing that everyone, including the lowly members, was fed and parroted at every opportunity.


Or, if that doesn't work for you, I must need to apologize as well. I apologize for being a paid member at TSR. I apologize for playing some of their challenges and encouraging Steve to create user content beyond the standard CC. I apologize for posting a few walls and houses there, as apparently it was an unconscious decision on my part to lure unsuspecting kiddies to the site. I apologize for contributing to their forums, as my help on game issues might have discouraged them from going to other sites...other sites where they could have learned about PMBD...for help. I am an awful person, and I should be punished. Please use the fuzzy handcuffs. It's cold in here.

[calalily]

Aikea made one post in one thread over a year ago. She forgot about it. Do you remember each and every post you've ever made? The thread was alluded to and she then remembered seeing it. Then it's posted and hey...she made one two-three sentence remark in it.

Please! I didn't say one word - not one single solitary word about remembering - I didn't even have a go the first time round when this was brought up. I didn't say one word about whether she saw it, why she didn't tell us.  I didn't even have a go as soon as I saw it - I wanted to give her a chance to say what she wanted to say about it.  How the fuck is that possibly not as fair as it can get? But that's not good enough apparently. I'm the lowest of the low for questioning her inconsistencies. 

[EbonyRye]

I just got this from my sister whos after reading all the posts I have been sending her, sent a lil mail off to T$R this is her question and the reply she got.


QUESTION
I would like to voice my concern about renewing my membership at TSR. There is a lot of talk and very convincing screen shots of our privacy being invaded and Shared. Also that trojans are being placed in files. I for one am too scared to download anything from TSR anymore. No I dont share files and never have and have been a TSR member for a long time. What can be done to belay my concerns is any of this true? It is definatley very convincing. You have my credit card number is this safe? Is any of my private information safe???

REPLY

Hello,


There has always been a lot of talk about TSR in certain parts of our community and most of this talk is just plain wrong or twisted to suit the latest speculation. Your information is safe, we don't give out your personal details.
We don't place Trojans in our files, whoever told you this is knowingly or unknowingly lying.
We don't store credit card numbers, we don't handle such infomration at all. This is taken care of by either PayPal or Bibit (our payment processor) we don't even relay this information.


If you refer to the forum post screenshots and read what it says, you will notice it states the username, and in some cases the real name (info taken from our member database, not Paypal) of people we have caught filesharing our subscriber files. Those are people acting illegally and now banned from our website. Please notice also that this information is posted in a private forum, only accessible by TSR staff and Featured Artists - the people who have a right to know who's stealing from us. What's ironic is that those people posting the screenshots are the ones spreading those names outside of this private forum.


To bottom line is, your privacy is safe with us. We take privacy very seriously and would never jeopardize the trust of our users. If you are caught stealing our files we let our staff know who you are.


I hope this answers your questions, please let me know if you have any further questions.


Regards,
TSR Support


My final word on this email, *sneezes* achooo bullshit.... ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!! and dont knock my sisters question she on purpose tried to sound as dumb as possible
and wont be renewing her membership. They may even ban her unsubscribed account for me posting this here,
 but she doesnt care, shes now a converted pirate.

[FreeShitOnly]

Zazazu i'm sorry but that was the lamest comparison ever.  Using your OWN analogy, Shino, Atwa and whoever the hell else in that thread who wore cheerleading outfits with a big TSR on the front are just brainwashed little cult members who know not what they do and therefore should be exonerated for their wrongdoing.

Save it.

And no... I didn't raise my hand to any of that shit.  I've never paid for shit except the base game, a few stuff packs and all EPs.  Why?  Well .. thats in the FAQ here.  I've never believed in paying for CC since day one dude.

The Aikea shit was resolved a few posts above yours man.  The REAL topic is Sharing personal information lest we forget.  

ETA

And thank you Ebony for the segue LOL

So that's the excuse they're going to give once paypal comes knocking huh?  Interesting..

[EbonyRye]

Yup thats their lame excuse I am sure they have it all worked out, funny thing is on sign up you dont give your real name
that info can only be obtained from paypal or other means...*smirks*