TSR: In Ur Accounts, Deletin Ur Stuffs!

[Immortelle]

It'll probably use that bullshit spiel about how Coconuts stuff is all photoshopped.  Granted, a vast majority of the Sims community does in fact have some rather solid Photoshopping skills, but it would have been incredibly well Photoshopped.  The only editing and tampering I can see in Coconut's blog is the green highlighting.

[Echo]

It'll probably use that bullshit spiel about how Coconuts stuff is all photoshopped.  Granted, a vast majority of the Sims community does in fact have some rather solid Photoshopping skills, but it would have been incredibly well Photoshopped.  The only editing and tampering I can see in Coconut's blog is the green highlighting.

Photoshopping screenshots would be an incredibly stupid waste of time. Aside from any logical arguments about the merits of screenshots to begin with, you get much better results just editing the actual page with firebug and taking a screen shot of the end result. (For the record, I don't believe Coconut falsified screenshots.)

[SnarkyShark]

If someone doesn't believe that those screenshots were faked, then one can surmise that they might believe that Thomas and many of the mods and FAs over at TSR took part in sharing the personal information of members from that site (members who had broken NO laws).  Coconut supplied those screenshots. Coconut also supplied the latest information about information sharing. Why is it such a stretch to believe that coconut would be correct AGAIN about Thomas and Co. sharing personal information AGAIN?

FBI Legal Attaché Office
Copenhagen, Denmark
American Embassy: 011-45-3341-7100
Nations covered: Denmark, Finland, Greenland, Iceland, Norway, >>>>Sweden<<<<

Report Internet Crime
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

[WedgewoodBlue]

So I am curious.....remember when BuggyBoo got hacked way back when....and all of a sudden TSR claimed that their FA's accounts were hacked at the same time? Well they lied about it being only their FA's accounts because my account at TSR was compromised. Now, not only did they NOT EVER inform me of this, but they supplied my account info to Delpy in an attempt to supposedly try and find out who the hacker was. I have PM's from Delphy, I can always provide them if needed.

Any and ALL attempts I made to TSR to resolve why I was not informed met with colossal failure, on TSR's part. They even went so far as to suggest that it was MY responsibility to find out who hacked my account. Without actually coming out and accusing me, they did make me feel like it was MY fault that my account was compromised. And they repeatedly refused to directly answer any of the questions I asked them. Sometimes when I read their responses I wondered if they had even read what I had posted......their responses had almost nothing to do with what I was asking them.
My subscription lapsed, I didn't bother renewing, but boy oh boy was I ever tempted to keep it up and start sending files here to the booty.

I am not, nor have I ever been an FA, SA, or even uploaded anything at TSR, or anywhere else for that matter. I am one of those people who probably couldn't colour my way out of a paper bag. Hell I can't even figure out how to recolour clothing. I'm just one of the miscreants who likes to play the game and relies on others to make the wonderful free stuff for the game.

I will say this though, and I find it rather annoying...my game computer has died yet again. I think this is like the fourth time and now I am convinced that it has something to do with the TSR content I have in my game. Sadly, all the TSR content I have is strictly Cashcraft's stuff, but still, no one else I know has had their computer crash as many times as I have and the only thing on that computer is the Sims2.

The only reason I repeat this, (pretty sure it's elsewhere here on PMBD), is that TSR tells lies so often, that anything they may try and claim now is just another in a long line of fabrications.
They re-hired Atwat, they have that list, and now they are once again backpedaling to try and cover their exposed bare asses. You'd think that at some point this would get rather old, but apparently they have nothing better to do, especially since they have such crap that they sell, oops, I mean con people with, on their craptucular site.

[Fran]

No offense but i don't think you're neutral enough for me to take your word for it, could you perhaps let someone neutral have a look at it? The prism people perhaps?

I'm going to state this: Prism/RYG is not going to become involved with this affair whatsoever. At least 2 of our members (one of them being myself) were on that list, and as such, that makes us "un-neutral" to judge anything, even if we wanted to, which we do not.

Talk to lawyers if you really want a neutral party. They're good at judging your case and how you'll fare in the legal system.

[Witchboy]

I smell a class action lawsuit

[Paden]

That sure and hell beats what the brown-nosers over at TSR smell constantly, I'd wager. Ick, I think I just squicked myself out...

[Witchboy]

That sure and hell beats what the brown-nosers over at TSR smell constantly, I'd wager. Ick, I think I just squicked myself out...

Can we say Poop shoot anyone? As to who's their a smellin i'll just leave that to all your imaginations.

[Moune]

I can attest that I know the path it took, and that I find it sufficiently believable.

Hi Cala. Good to see you again.

I take this to mean that there is some kind of written evidence that Atwa distributed the list. If you say it is substantial enough to stand up to investigation then that is good enough for me. Because, unlike Johan, I know Cala well enough to know that she doesn’t lie, manipulate or fabricate facts.

Also providing information to the community is not nessecary. Their opinion in this matter is currently not important.

Excuse me, what? Who the hell do you think you are? This has everything to do with the community. Providing information to the community is crucial and the opinion of the community does matter very much.

Coconut and others – you perhaps – are riling up half the community by telling us that Atwa/TSR has hacked a petition and distributed personal information. You kick up a sentiment and on the momentum of that a number of individuals take action. But only – ONLY – because they have half the community backing them up. If this had come out in some little backdoor subforum at a minor site, nobody would have done anything.

So Coconut and others – you perhaps – are using the community to further you own goals. You damn well have an obligation to be very clear about what you have in terms of proof. I’m sure I’m not the only one who refuses to be manipulated and used – by neither paysites nor pirates – and I refuse to back up your case if you won’t even tell me what you’re basing it on. If you won’t come clean with the community you don’t deserve the backing of the community, and without the community you can go and file your own little complaint yourself and see how far you’ll get with that.

Note that I’m not asking for specific emails and similar evidence to be laid out here, but I want to know from reliable sources that such things exist.

Pes, I’m going to repeat this: How much to you know about the hacking of the petition and how much of this did you see with your own eyes and how much did Bluesoup or others tell you?

To WB and a few others:
I don’t know why we have to go over this one again. You are innocent until proven guilty. You need not prove that you didn’t do something. Others have to prove that you did it.

IMPORTANT NOTE for all those filing complaints:

The FBI is all well and fine. But they have no jurisdiction in Sweden. Make sure you also send a complaint to the Swedish police’s department for internet crime here:

National Police Board
Box 12256
102 26 Stockholm
Phone +46 8 401 90 00
itbrott@rkp.police.se

And do also send a copy to the district police in TSR’s district here:

Gävleborg County Police
Box 625
801 26 Gävle
polismyndigheten.gavleborg@polisen.se

That should help get the right people looking into this.

[Witchboy]

To WB and a few others:
I don’t know why we have to go over this one again. You are innocent until proven guilty. You need not prove that you didn’t do something. Others have to prove that you did it.

Quote from the net.

The concept of innocent until proven guilty refers to legal, as opposed to factual guilt. In every case, the defendant either committed the offense or did not, a fact that remains true regardless of whether the jury acquits or convicts. The phrase means simply that a person is not legally guilty until a jury returns a verdict of guilty.

As i stated on the previous page... See the bold part.

Prove to me that TSR (Thomas) or the TWAT are not the ones responsible for the hackings. It has been proven that the IP used to do most if not all the hacking is from Sweden. Whether it was Thomas or the TWAT who knows. They are however both in Sweden. It also is a known fact & has been proven that the TWAT was going around to different sites asking questions about hacking & how one would go about tracing a hacking back to a responsible party. Also asking about how a hacker hides so that it would be hard to prove or disprove the person being accused of said hacking is or isn't the responsible party. There are screenshots of this somewhere here on PMBD i believe.

I said whether or not it was Thomas or the TWAT, who knows, meaning no one knows.

But as i and others here believe, all evidence points in one direction & one direction only. TSR Has the list. Coconut says the TWAT had the list & that the TWAT claims she got it directly from Thomas. Thomas gave the list to both Dot & the TWAT. The list came from one source & that source is Blue Soups petition. Hence the numbers on the list, 1., 2., 3. etc (example: I'm #199), followed by the signers name, e-mail & the comments made directly to EA on said petition which are also the exact same items on the list that Thomas, Dot & the TWAT have in their possession.

Also stated by Pes over on GOS some of the names on said petition were planted (fake) and those names are also on the list of names TSR has in its possession. So you tell me, who is the evidence pointing to more & more as time goes by? TSR. Nuff said.

Or at the very least Thomas & the TWAT

[novastar]

Many of the usernames published do not even exist in our database, and never have. For the usernames that do exist, in some cases we have more info than they claim, and in others, less.

Also pointing out this part of TSR's response to the accusations - somebody in TSR either has this list, have had possession of it, or at least have read it. Why? They say they have different levels of information on the usernames on this list that is claimed to exist. How could they KNOW how much information they have on usernames compared to this list when the only way to know these usernames and the comparing information is to have SEEN THE LIST?

Unless they are making up lies to try and make everyone feel safe and have never seen it? It would still show them as lying to protect their own image, yes?

I may have worded it awkwardly, but it leaves a lot of implications. I wonder if Johan will answer to this one? Or will he go gossiping to Thomass about his rather large blunder?

[johan]

Many of the usernames published do not even exist in our database, and never have. For the usernames that do exist, in some cases we have more info than they claim, and in others, less.

Also pointing out this part of TSR's response to the accusations - somebody in TSR either has this list, have had possession of it, or at least have read it. Why? They say they have different levels of information on the usernames on this list that is claimed to exist. How could they KNOW how much information they have on usernames compared to this list when the only way to know these usernames and the comparing information is to have SEEN THE LIST?

Unless they are making up lies to try and make everyone feel safe and have never seen it? It would still show them as lying to protect their own image, yes?

I may have worded it awkwardly, but it leaves a lot of implications. I wonder if Johan will answer to this one? Or will he go gossiping to Thomass about his rather large blunder?

The list can be found here:
http://tsr.mustbedestroyed.org/?p=858#more-858
Complete with comments on what details are available, that is the list we compared to in our news post.

[Moune]

WB, I’m not disputing that many things point to TSR culpability here. I’ve already said that. What I’m saying is that you can’t ask TSR to prove that they didn’t do it. For one thing, how do you expect them to do that? Proving innocence is in many cases next to impossible, which is one reason why we have the principle of innocence until proven guilty.

The opposite and what you’re applying – guilty until proven innocent – is what they had in many communist dictatorships. In Cambodia, for instance, that principle resulted in 300,000 people being executed summarily.

I am aware that it is a legal principle, but I think it would be very wise to also apply it to this kind of ‘trial by community’, where people risk being judged and punished on sometimes very flimsy grounds. Every time these ‘so prove you didn’t steal/lie/do whatever’ things come up I shake my head. It just isn’t the way to go about it if you want a community with just a minimum of sensibility in it.

... the only way to know these usernames and the comparing information is to have SEEN THE LIST?

We have all seen the list and the usernames. Coconut has it up on her site. Doesn’t indicate anything.

Edited to add emphasis

[calalily]

Except Atwat's persistent return. Every time it's sworn she's gone, she comes back, gets revealed, and then refired and rehired under yet another username.  Really shows you have nothing to hide. I'm sure we'll believe you *this* time.  

Yes she managed to sneak in again but we certainly did not rehire her.

Thought she would be feeling unwelcome - but apparently not.  It's almost like she had an invite.

No offense but i don't think you're neutral enough for me to take your word for it, could you perhaps let someone neutral have a look at it? The prism people perhaps?

That option has long since been blown by the backdoor shenanigans that TSR has involved me in behind the scenes. I do not trust anyone to be completely neutral thanks to your little games, and won't be opening up what I have for anyone.  You guys blew that game long ago - good job.  

Pes, I’m going to repeat this: How much to you know about the hacking of the petition and how much of this did you see with your own eyes and how much did Bluesoup or others tell you?

Hey darling - hope you and your little one are doing well.  

I have the document in its unedited form - it does appear to be of a petition format.

[Witchboy]

WB, I’m not disputing that many things point to TSR culpability here. I’ve already said that. What I’m saying is that you can’t ask TSR to prove that they didn’t do it. For one thing, how do you expect them to do that? Proving innocence is in many cases next to impossible, which is one reason why we have the principle of innocence until proven guilty.

I'm not asking TSR to prove they are innocent or didn't do the deed. I'm just stating what i believe to be true after seeing both sides of the evidence. Not just in this case, but in everything that has happened in this community involving TSR going all the way back to TS1 days. Yes i'm that old.

I also really need to stop calling out the names of Thomas & the TWAT. I don't think i've said their names that many times in one post ever. It's like playing Bloody Mary in the dark with a mirror. You say um enough times and they will appear

I'm a skeeeerd!