TSR: In Ur Accounts, Deletin Ur Stuffs!

[Scurvy Cat]

Going back a little, I can think of two reasons why a non-TSR hacker might pick Buggyboos stuff to hack.  To "punish" Buggyboos for being "cruel" to Shakeshaft, or because their idea of fun is "Oh, look a hornet's nest!  Let's throw a rock in it."  In the latter case they're probably sittling at their computers howling with laughter and getting their tiny little rocks off.  

[scrappysim]

Well, I never said anything about posting it over there because it wouldnt last for even a minute but all around the rest of the community and anywhere that the fence riders might accumulate plus anywhere that members of TSR or subscribers might read would be a good place apply this argument.  Also secrets about this incident could present both of the arguments such as "TSR hacks peoples accounts to be vindictive"  as well as "TSR cant keep anyone's info safe and they don't tell you when you are at risk.

Going back a little, I can think of two reasons why a non-TSR hacker might pick Buggyboos stuff to hack.  To "punish" Buggyboos for being "cruel" to Shakeshaft, or because their idea of fun is "Oh, look a hornet's nest!  Let's throw a rock in it."  In the latter case they're probably sittling at their computers howling with laughter and getting their tiny little rocks off.

But how would they even have known about it in time to make it happen.  SO few people even knew about the Buggy-shakeshaft thing before the hack and they would have had to be in possession of the passwords and know in time.

edited to respond to scurvy and not double post

[Darqstar]

Going back a little, I can think of two reasons why a non-TSR hacker might pick Buggyboos stuff to hack.  To "punish" Buggyboos for being "cruel" to Shakeshaft,  

Again, a bit too coincidental.  TSR is claiming they were hacked god-only-knows-when, but that three months ago they "found" this leak and plugged it.  Yet, s/h/it has a hard on for Shakeshaft and hatred for TSR enough that the moment Shakeshaft was in any "danger" they rushed forward and slammed on Buggy, then set it up to look like it was Thomas who did it.

Something isn't connecting there.  Even if this person did somehow manage to adore Shakeshaft and hate TSR, they would have to realize that because Shakeshaft is on TSR, that this wouldn't look good for Shakeshaft either.

or because their idea of fun is "Oh, look a hornet's nest!  Let's throw a rock in it."  In the latter case they're probably sittling at their computers howling with laughter and getting their tiny little rocks off. 

Again, what's with the patience?  First a little hack to Sim secrets. Then, patiently wait around for something like this to happen.  In the meantime, TSR could find out about you and change everything so you're SOL.  It seems like an awful lot of sitting around patiently and hoping for something to happen. 

Again, I think TSR is trying to discredit Coconut.  Yes, I know, TSR hasn't deliberately mentioned Coconut, but, I think they want others to draw the conclusion themselves.  After all, if someone else says, "Hey, what about Coconut!"

TSR can go, "Oh!" *V-8 Headsmack*  "Silly us, we forgot about Coconut!  But now that you mention it, yeah, that is a possibility!"

We know TSR wants coconut gone.   It isn't even speculation anymore.  If TSR follows Coconut around to several different journals, getting each one closed down, it's obvious they want her gone, they aren't just ignoring this. 

So, Coconut goes to Pescado's server.  Now she can't be torn down.  So, what option does TSR have?  They can't have her banished, because if they asked Pescado, the worst that could happen was that he'd get a bellyache from laughing too hard at them.  So, now they have to discredit Coconut.  Make her look like she's evil!  How do you do that?  Do you hack sites and claim you're coconut?  Of course not.  Yes, you can claim that those screenshots were all faked, but any idiot knows that there really is no way to tell if something is screen shot or original.   Professional people who work with photoshop can tell you that it's impossible.  Anyone who's played with more than one type of screen capture, graphics program, or video card knows that it's pretty much impossible.  So, even if TSR comes up with the supposed "Real" screenshots, some folks will just say, "Yeah, sure, took you long enough to fake those, didn't it?"  Also, you have the issue of why were the FA's backpedaling when LDG confronted them?  Wouldn't you think that she would have written that post and then people would have said, "Oh, that's not what happened, here's the real story," thus, end of thread.  Instead they talk about starting special boards and give her assurances that this won't happen again.   

So, faking screen shots won't help.  Hm... what do you do?

Well, you hack other sites.  Nothing too serious, just so if this thing bites you in the ass, you haven't done anything too terrible.  Nothing's been permanently destroyed, it was just annoying.  You make it so obvious that it was you who did this, you carefully make all the connections you can, because you want to be sure you're blamed for this quickly.

You let the fur fly, then step forward, kick your toe in the dirt and say, "Gosh, guys... uh... well, maybe we should have said something earlier, but we were hacked.  Here's proof that we were hacked...." 

And what you hope happens is that everyone goes, "Oh no! They were hacked!  WHO DID THIS?" Because as I pointed out before, we're upset and angry about this.  And when you're upset and angry and someone says, "It's not me, and I can prove it," you're going to get twice as mad at the person who did it.  First for being jerks and doing it, second for duping you into thinking it was someone else.  No one likes to be played for an idiot. 

But you don't say Coconut did it, you wait.  Because yeah, sooner or later, people are going to draw the lines in the sand.  "Hey, who could possibly have broken into TSR that could have later hacked Buggy?  Oh, wait, there is that Coconut person.  We know she has access to hidden forums.  It's not a long stretch of the imagination that she decided to take it one step further and go out hacking to make TSR look even worse!"

Remember Coconut saying that Thomas said she was a hacker but she'd been blocked?  (Turned out to be false, of course)  Remember just a few weeks ago Solander coming in and questioning Coconut's character, implying that because Coconut reposted pictures of Thomas's house, that she wasn't a very trustworthy person?  Remember me and others saying that something was in the works?  We thought it was Dot.  It was NOT Dot, it was this.

There is really no motive for Coconut to pretend to be TSR and go out hacking.  Coconut can do a lot more damage by staying in the know.  If this little trick now discredits her, she does become useless to the entire cause, because no one will believe her ever again. She'll get branded a lying hacker and become a laughing stock.

TSR sniffles and says how sowwy they are that they got hacked and hope and pray that people will forgive them their transgression of not informing them of when they were hacked.  Sympathy rolls in, sympathy and a hopeful jump in subscriptions and everything is just fine.    Sure, TSR is still a paysite, but at least they aren't going around HACKING and STEALING things, no, they're cool, they're just off being TSR. 

You buying it yet?  Cause I ain't.

EDIT TO ADD: I refer to Coconut as a "she" because it seems the majority of people in the fandom are women.  In truth, I have no idea if Coconut is male, female, or transgender.  Coconut, if you are a guy, I'm sorry 'bout that.

[scrappysim]

TSR sniffles and says how sowwy they are that they got hacked and hope and pray that people will forgive them their transgression of not informing them of when they were hacked.  Sympathy rolls in, sympathy and a hopeful jump in subscriptions and everything is just fine.    Sure, TSR is still a paysite, but at least they aren't going around HACKING and STEALING things, no, they're cool, they're just off being TSR.  

See, I don't see this happening.  I think only the stupidest of the stupid continue giving personal information to a website that continuously puts that information in harms way.  I think people get mad if someone hacks someone's site but people get scared if thier info is compromised.  I think scared might elicit more of a reaction to make changes than angry.  If I didn't know much about all of this but someone kept showing me proof (or at least planting the seed of doubt) that my information was not safe and then the site itself admits that it knew my information was compromised and didn't tell me so I could protect myself, I would certainly not give them more info or more money. (even if I believed them and felt sorry for them.)

edited because only the quote showed up-- sorry

[Anouk]

Well, we could see it coming, that they would try to stick something on Coconut when the first staged hackings happened to accounts on TSR (all on quiet hours).

[Scurvy Cat]

In the case of the Shakeshaft Groupie--how long ago did Buggyboos file a protest?  

In the case of the small-balls hornet's nest hacker--it's Spring Break season in a lot of US schools.  Excellent time for a hacker kiddie to be at work.

OTOH, I still think it was probably TSR.  I mean, who profits if MTS2 or coconut is "discredited"? I'm sure Delphy is secretly buying a yaht with helipad, and coconut is being paid under the table by... by... well, somebody.  Marukati Selectives, I guess.

[SoggyFox]

It all just happened in the past few days.

And fear causes hatred, which can do more harm than righteous anger.  Anger, you can still think, hatred can cause people to do something stupid.

[Darqstar]

See, I don't see this happening.  I think only the stupidest of the stupid continue giving personal information to a website that continuously puts that information in harms way.  I think people get mad if someone hacks someone's site but people get scared if thier info is compromised.  I think scared might elicit more of a reaction to make changes than angry.  If I didn't know much about all of this but someone kept showing me proof (or at least planting the seed of doubt) that my information was not safe and then the site itself admits that it knew my information was compromised and didn't tell me so I could protect myself, I would certainly not give them more info or more money. (even if I believed them and felt sorry for them.)

edited because only the quote showed up-- sorry

I agree, it's stupid of them, but what options do they have, when you think about it.   They can't just say, "Coconut's a liar!"  Because we'll laugh.  They've got to do something pretty risky to completely and utterly discredit her, or to at least do max damage.  You may not be able to convinces us that she's not what she seems, but there are probably more than a few sheeples that'll listen.  And at this point, I think TSR figures that the risk is worth it. 

I will be curious as to what TSR says about all of this.  I don't think they realize what information people might have stored on their site and how upset they might get.  They might just try to buy it off with, "None of your pay information is stored on our server!"  Yes, the real life addresses might raise issues, but I think they're counting on most people not filling in the information accurately, or if they did, not being all that concerned.  They could even say that addresses and such were stored on a different server that wasn't hacked, that's why they didn't feel it was such a big deal. 

I'm betting if they even address this, it will be along the lines of, "Nothing super important was accessed."  And they'll leave it at that.  Or else they will write that they weren't even sure the Hacker got that much information, blah blah blah.  They'll basically try to fluff it over as "Nope, it's cool, your safe," and hope that people won't get upset.

[Anouk]

TSR admins are really the only ones who have all tools available to them.

- full acces to user accounts - check
- real time knowledge of BuggyBooz's complaints - check
- have been using the same proxy service in the past - check
- knowledge about the community in general, knowing the implications of all this - check

Random script kid? - Nope, does not posess the knowledge of the community, and of the shitstorm this would cause, it's too specific. More importantly, the same random script kid would have needed access to MTS2's featured creator forum to know if BuggyBooz was going to complain about something. They would have had access to TSR blocked for them 3 months ago. Extremely unlikely.
Coconut the hacker? - Not possible, the simsecret hacker used a proxy service ip used by Atwa on Naturalsims
Atwa the hacker? - Possible, but Atwa hasn't had access to user accounts for many months. This means she had help from an admin at TSR. OR hacked simsecret and TSR wich I very seriously doubt, as the hacking wasn't real hacking, but simply trying out if TSR password was being used elsewhere.
TSR admin the hacker? - Possible, have full access, have all tools available, and even suckers to do it for him.

[calalily]

Coconut has proven her integrity by being careful that the information released doesn't harm anyone innocent.

Unless I've missed something (if so, please give a link!), they've not accused Coconut..yet. They've not given any details to their suspicions of said apparent hacking third party.

They've also not even said that this third party was not connected to TSR in any way or means. Atwa, as a random example, is no longer (publically) TSR staff and so does not represent them, so she would be someone who they could label as a 'third party'.

Once they get the lies bought and supported by the community, they'll accuse coconut - like they do already in the FA forums . coconut is already seen as a hacker - all the FAs keep freaking out at this information being leaked, and Thomass keeps telling them it's a hacker - not an insider.  So he's not only feeding bullshit to his own staff, but anyone who believes his "outside hacker" story is helping his bullshit become acceptable.

As for believing TSR - the long history of grievances between MTS2 and TSR - from the time when they refused to link to the CEP to now - why you would choose to listen to a word TSR writes on a subject is beyond me.  And the next time this happens, who will care, uh?

[kenmtl]

* Nouk kinda ninja'd me but I made an effort to type it all out so nuyuh*

I'm sorry if this has been answered already but I'm still a little curious about the whole Buggy/ShitShaft info thing. Assuming that it's not a total coincidence, outside of T$R, exactly how many people knew about the situation? Maybe that's something only she can answer but it would be interesting to know exactly how many people knew before her page got attacked. If for the sake of argument we say it's not Thomas, then somebody had to have to information in order to take advantage of a convenient situation. I'm assuming Buggy didn't go blabbing all over the internet about the complaint she made so I'm also assuming very few people knew it even happened. So if it wasn't someone from T$R than it had to be someone she had told.

Conversely if it wasn't one of those people than it had to be someone from T$R. Aside from the person she addressed her complaint to how many people at T$R might had been told? I'm assuming they also tried to keep the information as quiet as possible in order to avoid embarrassing the thief. It not like this was some wide open event that everyone knew about. The pool of suspects is very small. It was either someone from T$R who knew about the complaint or one of her close friend that she might told. hmmmm, who would you pick?

Or it's a complete coincidence that the two events happened to coincide. *ahem* There's no doubt in my mind however, regardless of ip's it had to be someone that knew what was happening.

[scrappysim]

That's what I have been trying to say.  I have been told that she mentioned it in an artist forum at MTS2 (I am not an artist so I have no info about how many were there and knew) and that it had been reported to someone at TSR but very few people really knew anything.  That's why there seems to be no way this could be random or coincidental and even if the moment just presented itself as a convenient opportunity then someone had to have this info for many months sitting around waiting for a chance to use it and if so then who else's info is still sitting there waiting for another opportunity.

[SoggyFox]

The artist forum is for anyone who has ever gotten featured, a moomoo award, a mocha award, or a latte award [I think that covers it ].  If someone deletes their featured items off of MTS2 I -think- they lose access.  If they smart off and are abusive repeatedly in the forum, they can lose access.

That still leaves a lot of people, assuming -all- people with access actually log on every day and check it.  But who would have a motive -and- access to the info needed - TSR

[Jonesi]

Buggy posted on the 28th in the moomoo forum and her stuff was removed from her mts2 account the next day. Too close to be a coincidense.

[Paden]

Going back a whole lot of pages to just say this: Pescado, you do know that tagging me with that title is just going to make me clean up my act more, right?? Sorry, but if you were hoping to get me provoked enough to storm around, it ain't happening.

As for the TSR stuff, I'm glad Delphy is still digging because it sounds to me as if there is still a lot more data yet to come out. Taking the problem to TSR is like taking a wounded lamb to a lion in hopes that it will take care of and nurture it. Not gonna happen. Lion is gonna be hungry and see wounded lamb as lunch, simple as that. Asking the BBS to take care of issues is about like putting mammary glands on a boar which are about as useless as a sterile man using condoms while having sex with his wife. At least the information can be gotten out there, though.

You folks needing help to get it up and out there is getting me to seriously consider registering my game and making an account in order to lend a hand. I dunno, though. Also, the way this thread has grown since I went to bed last night/this morning makes me wonder if I should have spent most of the day cleaning the house!