NEW TSR LEGAL THREAT!

[ekimsal]

Unless I misread something (which is possible, at work and my eyes are starting to get computer fried) The new EULA is cause for Rumz all around! 

[dusdeedawn]

Thank you for posting that, Saraswati - I hadn't seen it before.

[sidhe]

  yes its great to have that link handy! The only thing here is that the section 2 part 4 that you posted is only in regards to content acquired or uploaded through Sims Launcher. They seem to have a different section for each aspect of the game. Section 2 part A looks like it deals more with intellectual property rights. They also reference the software and all components of it. I believe this is the piece that will make paysites cry...but it might piss off free sites too.

"Except as expressly licensed to you herein, EA and its licensors, as
applicable, owns and reserves all right, title and interest in the Software, and all related data,
characters, themes, objects, storyline, images, photographs, graphics, animations, video, music,
text, and the associated copyrights, trademarks, moral rights and other intellectual property rights
therein. This License is limited to the intellectual property rights of EA and its licensors in the
Software and does not include any rights to other patents or intellectual property. Except to the
extent permitted under applicable law, you may not decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer or
created derivative works of the Software by any means whatsoever. You may not remove, alter, or
obscure any product identification, copyright, or other intellectual property notices in the
Software."

[Saraswati]

You're very welcome guys. It's highly useful running RYG/Prism because if I don't find it, one of my guys will. Someone needs to have a conversation with them about the work that Wes is intending to do (although it's been a while since I caught up on it, maybe Inge can enlighten us).. although I'm sure something similar was in the last EULA in relation to their ownership of the work.

But I was extremely interested to see that.. it actually puts into words how Sims files work practically. If your stuff gets shared or reused, shrug your damn shoulders and walk away. It's supposed to be shared.

[Nightmare]

HE says we host in Malaysia, yet they host in Sweden. You hipocrit asshole, why you don´t set up at US?

Probably because they live in Sweden.  Most of their customer base is in the USA though.

Nope. Probably because they would have been sued and they would have been butt kicked, just as EA was...

[neriana]

Section 2 part A looks like part of a normal PC game EULA to me. Nothing new there, so I'm not worried.

The part Sarasvati linked is even more explicitly anti-paysite than the Sims 2 EULA. Okay, it doesn't say you can't sell files in the first place -- but it does say you have no right to those files whatsoever, and that once people have their grubby little hands on them, they can do whatever they bloody well please. Suck it, TSR.

[Quorneater]

Where did that letter come from?  If I'm gonna P&L I want to know a bit more about it.

[Scurvy Cat]

Let's see. 

Thomas tries to get Pescado's internet access terminated.
Johan--if that's who it is--who had previously been polite, if somewhat skeptical is suddenly screaming and foaming at the mouth.
Emails begging people to renew long dormant subscriptions arrive.
The TSR email newsletter which they haven't bothered with in quite a while suddenly reappears.
Dot becomes teary-eyed and regretful.

Can you say kermitflailing?  I knew you could.

I think the ship is taking on water.  Perhaps Thomas will have to do with only one home now.  Sad.  (Snicker.)

[Grotesque Sharonicle]

You mean where it came to  ? Cause it came from Thomass; says on the start and end of the letter.

In that case; if Pescado doesn't want to answer about the letter then let him be.
If he wanted to answer the 'where and who' about the letter he'd answer it back when Darqstar first asked it, on page 1.

That he typed it(the letturrr thommers wrote zo talentedly) himself I seriously doubt it, 'cause that would mean he drank up 5 bottles of rum(from the PMBD's secret stash top shelf). In that case, ARGH! to him for not sharing.

I also doubt it can be of any use but to him and maybe a mod or two. But in this line I may be mistaking, but whatever... 

[Requip]

Johan--if that's who it is--who had previously been polite, if somewhat skeptical is suddenly screaming and foaming at the mouth.

Watching him run around screaming is my entertainment for the week. Me thinks they're getting desperate? 

[kenmtl]

Is that the same EULA Pes posted awhile ago or is it a new one? I understood that it was just a teaser.

However I did find it interesting that they were addressing CC issues when word from the Creators camp was that it wasn't going to be possible. They were also addressing the importation of 3rd party copyrighted materials. Which I found even more interesting.

[CatOfWar]

I haven't seen a reply in this thread to sidhe's question about Swedish anti-piracy law and how it affects T$R.  Seemed like a reasonable, possibly useful line of inquiry, but not one I can help with.  Someone who can help, please PM sidhe or something.

[Bouncing Pink Ball]

Huh? Is that letter an actual, serious attempt by someone to protect a business? Where is his lawyer? No one with more than one or two employees (is that not what TSR has, people employed to make custom content?) handles their own legal affairs, not even at the correspondence level. This must just be intended as an annoyance or attention-getter. Either that, or he's getting bad legal advice. Or ignoring sound legal advice...

I try to be kind and look at both sides in disputes. I'm currently unemployed. Having been a senior designer and developer for ages, I can bang out the pixel image stuff pretty quick with zero effort. Even though TSR's lousy $500 payouts wouldn't even get me a cheap apartment, let alone buy food or allow for a social life, I'd still step over cute toddlers and puppy dogs to earn that much a month right now. I can completely understand why TSR checks would be attractive to a certain demographic.

Of course, selling stuff for a game created by a company you are neither employed by nor contracted to  seems, to me, wrong on various levels (including, usually, legal ones). I also find it a little odd to often see what's obviously pictures of real clothing and home items slapped onto a mesh (sometimes lifted from Poser or a meshes-for-download site) and sold without consent on various paysites. I'm willing to bet no royalties are being paid out. Not anything in the realm of legal – not to mention lazy and unattractive (just my opinion: I prefer fully created, or at least well disguised real world textures, over photomeshed content). No one could get away with that in a real development company. Fans doing it for free; no big deal. Folks looking for money? Eh, no; that's not ok.

I'm not what you'd call an active sims community member, so I really not into All the dramaz!!11!! between TSR, their fellow paysites and the free creators. I'm simply annoyed that people, (who I assume are mostly, if not all, not professional content developers therefore maybe ignorant of protocol – but that's not an excuse), are selling, at beyond reasonable price, content created, in many cases with images, logos and sometimes meshes they haven't purchased usage rights to, for a game they have no connection with beyond fandom. Weird, legally shady and really tactless.

As to the EULA, my understanding in these situations has always been that if you make content derived from any aspect of a company or individuals property, be that software, images or code, you must purchase the right to do so from the original owner, especially if you intend to sell your work! Hence, you can't grab images from Corbis and start selling posters you designed with them, you can't build a custom level to a pre-existing game and sell it on your website and you can't take parts of a computer game, slap your own texture on it or add your own mesh with their code and sell that either. If you have a screen shot, a video, a sim posted anywhere well, EA owns it, right? It's based on their intellectual property and subject to their rules for use in any way they see fit. Or is the situation different with sims, because I'd be surprised.

[dstar]

The issue is that most people who work for TSR  are not professional legally in terms of working for EA or ethically and morally.

You will find the truly professional ones and the truly creative content creators  like Adele, HugeLunatic, Nouk, and Agustin working for nothing on freesites because they see it as a hobby and something they enjoy.

Thomas and his crew by no means can be construed as professional at anything Professionals don't rip off other professionals, professionals don't hack other professionals systems or condone it being done, and as you pointed out Professionals let their Legal Professionals handle stuff like this, Professionals don't make excuses or have their little brothers do their dirty work (at least not ethical professionals.) - Thomas has being doing this for years- since at least 2006 if not earlier so this is nothing new.

[Anouk]

Unless they're getting contracted by EA to create for the Sims 2, no-one can call themselves a professional. As for acting professional... I'm pretty sure ripping other people off is not acting professional.
Neither is starting a cult with Kierra.