TSR Sharing your infomation!

[KatrinaHighKick]

I can't seem them anymore, so I guess whoever still can see it, it's probably because your ISP hasn't been refreshed yet. So here goes:

[Arghyle]

Can't wait for coconut goodies on this.  Pure, sheer, unadulterated WIN.

[Paden]

Oh my, that is pure, I don't know how to describe it!

[Emma]

We have a Coconut update!

http://coconut-tsr.livejournal.com

[Devilfish]

I can't seem them anymore, so I guess whoever still can see it, it's probably because your ISP hasn't been refreshed yet. So here goes:

- awesome screenie snipped -

 

That is made of pure win with awesomesauce. I really wonder how that came about.

[Requip]

Wow, reading that thread makes me now firmly believe that every single one of them is NOT making things for this game because they enjoy creating or sharing their creations. It's only either money or being worshipped and that's it. Everyone should see that thread so everyone knows what a buncha selfish, whiny assholes they are. I wouldn't give any of them a frickin dime. 

And again, a huge thank you to creators who enjoy what they do, and enjoy sharing their creations & knowledge freely with everyone! 

[SamanthaS]

I totally agree Requip, well said.

[Paleoanth]

Wow, reading that thread makes me now firmly believe that every single one of them is NOT making things for this game because they enjoy creating or sharing their creations. It's only either money or being worshipped and that's it. Everyone should see that thread so everyone knows what a buncha selfish, whiny assholes they are. I wouldn't give any of them a frickin dime. 

And again, a huge thank you to creators who enjoy what they do, and enjoy sharing their creations & knowledge freely with everyone! 

Let me say first that I am not defending them at all.  And this may be a big old deer made of teel, so you might want to just run over it. 

When I started making stuff, I did it because there were things that I wanted that no one had made.  Then I realized how much fun it was.  I got decent at it and was made SA.  Still loved making things.  Then, when the submission requirements were put into place at TSR, all of a sudden making things turned from something I liked doing into a job.  Or it felt like a job anyway.  A job I was not being compensated for.  But the mentality of a job was still there and competition for front page space was there. 

One of the reasons I suggested a SA forum was to help each other out and share tips and tricks and resources with each other.  I also wanted to be able to pick FA's brains in order to get better myself.  It didn't really turn out that way, though.  The SA's were all nice, there was no bickering or anything, but at the same time there was not a lot of knowledge shared.  I am not sure if it was because we were all still learning or if it was the competition factor or we were just too busy trying to fulfill our stupid requirements.  The FA's shared almost nothing in terms of knowledge.  Now, I understand why.  I did get some tips in PM's but not on the forum.  AnoeskaB did post something on the general forums on how to add slots to objects and that is how I learned how to do it.  That was cool.  But, most of the time it was hit and miss or I spent a lot of time at MTS2.  Being at TSR was a rather insulated experience with a very our side versus everyone else kind of thing going on.  It was weird, but once you were involved and got kind of indoctrinated it almost felt normal.  I felt like that, and I double posted everything I made at MTS2, and was also very active at MTS2.   The attitude at the two places couldn't be more different.  MTS2 is kind of like the anti-TSR in terms of creating and knowledge sharing, if that makes sense.  I actually saw at least one FA go to MTS2 and ask some questions about animations.  They got unconditional help and then made their object and submitted it to TSR as a pay item.  That blew my mind. 

Anyway, with all that said, I can imagine how much more insulated and competitive a FA must feel.  It just doesn't feel like a job, it is a job.  A more competitive job than I realized with the bonus stuff.  Unless you are spending lots of time at other places, like I did, the complete dysfunction of the place does not register.  Even I did not realize how dysfunctional it was until I left and I spent tons of time at MTS2.   This attitude is fostered by TPTB at TSR.  They want their FA's in competition with each other.  Keeps them productive and too busy to question.  I have no idea how much knowledge sharing goes on in the FA forum, but the fact that I have seen FA's at MTS2 forums asking for help tells me a lot. How can you get serious help from people you are competing against for downloads and bonuses?   Plus, they want them to feel insulated and like TSR is the only place to be.  Everything about that place revolves around competition and insulation.  Ranks, front page space, kudos, pay per number of downloads, bonuses-all this leads to secrecy, competition, and mistrust.  It is kind of like being in a dysfunctional relationship.  The longer you are in one, the more normal it seems and the less likely you will have the gumption to leave it.

I am telling those FA's and SA's that read here that it is not normal over there, you can be productive, you can create for the joy of it, you can give and take freely of the knowledge of the community without the mistrust and competition inherent at TSR. 

ETA: DISCLAIMER-this represents only my views and opinions and may not reflect actual experiences or feelings of anyone else.  Ever.

[nixy]

Wow, reading that thread makes me now firmly believe that every single one of them is NOT making things for this game because they enjoy creating or sharing their creations. It's only either money or being worshipped and that's it. Everyone should see that thread so everyone knows what a buncha selfish, whiny assholes they are. I wouldn't give any of them a frickin dime. 

Not to say that they aren't assholes, but to me that whole thing read more like people's feelings were genuinely hurt and they weren't so much concerned with the money - at least during this particular discussion. I know I'd be hurt be if I'd done something I was really proud of, something that hadn't been done before, and then was passed over for recognition - with that "recognition" going to someone nameless, whose accomplishment is unknown to me, other than that it was apparently better than anything I've done. Of course, what they actually get is money - which, you know, is undeniably nice - but they *don't* get any public recognition, so they're not going to get congratulated, and because no one knows who received a bonus unless they talk about it, they are less likely to be able to gain standing even within the TSR community based on their merit as a creator.  None of the positive things - feedback, assistance, recognition - that happen naturally in the free community seem to happen for these people. The little bit of praise that happens is weird - you get money, but you have to go asking what it was you did to deserve it. Those chipper little posts about "better luck next month (losers!)" are just cruel. I hate to say anything even remotely positive about the guy (and it is pretty damn remote), but I'm beginning to think that Thomas has a very specific and sick sort of genius for manipulating people and motivating them through misery and paranoia.

[neriana]

I'm beginning to think that Thomas has a very specific and sick sort of genius for manipulating people and motivating them through misery and paranoia.

You don't have to be a genius to be a con artist. You just need to find suckers.

[aikea_guinea]

-snip-
One of the reasons I suggested a SA forum was to help each other out and share tips and tricks and resources with each other.  I also wanted to be able to pick FA's brains in order to get better myself.  It didn't really turn out that way, though.  The SA's were all nice, there was no bickering or anything, but at the same time there was not a lot of knowledge shared.  I am not sure if it was because we were all still learning or if it was the competition factor or we were just too busy trying to fulfill our stupid requirements.  The FA's shared almost nothing in terms of knowledge.  Now, I understand why.  I did get some tips in PM's but not on the forum.  AnoeskaB did post something on the general forums on how to add slots to objects and that is how I learned how to do it.  That was cool.  But, most of the time it was hit and miss or I spent a lot of time at MTS2.  Being at TSR was a rather insulated experience with a very our side versus everyone else kind of thing going on.  It was weird, but once you were involved and got kind of indoctrinated it almost felt normal.
-snip-

I'd like to toss in my two cents from my personal perspective of the SA forum.  I was always afraid of posting in there as it was more or less suggested that we were to leave you guys on your own, that it was your forum and we weren't to start any topics in there whatsoever.  I do remember there was a 'help' type section, but you're right, it was hardly ever used.  I think another part of the lack of FA-shared information is that they maybe just didn't even have the information to share in the first place.  I'll expand on this later.

Anyway, with all that said, I can imagine how much more insulated and competitive a FA must feel.  It just doesn't feel like a job, it is a job.  A more competitive job than I realized with the bonus stuff.  Unless you are spending lots of time at other places, like I did, the complete dysfunction of the place does not register.  Even I did not realize how dysfunctional it was until I left and I spent tons of time at MTS2.   This attitude is fostered by TPTB at TSR.  They want their FA's in competition with each other.  Keeps them productive and too busy to question.  I have no idea how much knowledge sharing goes on in the FA forum, but the fact that I have seen FA's at MTS2 forums asking for help tells me a lot. How can you get serious help from people you are competing against for downloads and bonuses?   Plus, they want them to feel insulated and like TSR is the only place to be.  Everything about that place revolves around competition and insulation.  Ranks, front page space, kudos, pay per number of downloads, bonuses-all this leads to secrecy, competition, and mistrust.  It is kind of like being in a dysfunctional relationship.  The longer you are in one, the more normal it seems and the less likely you will have the gumption to leave it.
-snip-

This hits the nail on the head.  Now that I've been 'on the outside' for a while, I'm not at all surprised by the utter stagnation that's very apparent among many of the FAs.  You're not exactly encouraged to go out into the larger community, so you end up having a very limited pool of information to work with, much of which is still several years behind.

Now, personally, I never felt much in the way of competition with other FAs, but I think that's because I felt like such a niche creator on there.  However, having said that, Gelydh has told me that she personally did feel as though she was overshadowed by other clothing creators who would come out with sets more often.  I can easily see how the FAs whose focus was objects or lots would get into a sort of 'competition' frame of mind.  I even remember there was a push to get more FAs writing tutorials, and reassurences were given that it wouldn't be like 'we were giving away our secrets,' so it's not just competition among FAs, but goes back to the 'TSR-vs-The World' mentality.  (I didn't do many tutorials because I'm lazy and am terrible at it.) 

Not to say that they aren't assholes, but to me that whole thing read more like people's feelings were genuinely hurt and they weren't so much concerned with the money - at least during this particular discussion. I know I'd be hurt be if I'd done something I was really proud of, something that hadn't been done before, and then was passed over for recognition - with that "recognition" going to someone nameless, whose accomplishment is unknown to me, other than that it was apparently better than anything I've done. Of course, what they actually get is money - which, you know, is undeniably nice - but they *don't* get any public recognition, so they're not going to get congratulated, and because no one knows who received a bonus unless they talk about it, they are less likely to be able to gain standing even within the TSR community based on their merit as a creator.  None of the positive things - feedback, assistance, recognition - that happen naturally in the free community seem to happen for these people. The little bit of praise that happens is weird - you get money, but you have to go asking what it was you did to deserve it. Those chipper little posts about "better luck next month (losers!)" are just cruel. I hate to say anything even remotely positive about the guy (and it is pretty damn remote), but I'm beginning to think that Thomas has a very specific and sick sort of genius for manipulating people and motivating them through misery and paranoia.

There was another thread where three sets a month were chosen and posted 'publicly' in the FA forum as part of another set of bonuses ('first place' was $100, can't remember what the other two were, possibly $50 each?).  Those were in addition to the other monthly bonuses that were handed out, and it was an 'open' thread so people could respond.  That was the only time it was really clear what you were getting a bonus for, as the other random bonuses were still done as you saw in the thread coconut posted.

[Devilfish]

Tomato, thanks for sharing that story. It's helped me rethink a couple of things.

That being said, don't you feel like we should be careful about the whole "us vs. them" athmosphere you described? I mean, it's obviously different for us, we do openly oppose something, but still. I do see a lot assupmtions that people are downright evil just because they're on the other side of the fence. There are some deeply troubled people on the other side, people I'd probably clock if I met them in real life, but I've seen little to none evil people on TSR or anyone in the paysite community.

Then again, hate may be the thing that fuels this here project. And I'd hate to see it go.

[ValancySterling]

Tomato, thanks for sharing that story. It's helped me rethink a couple of things.

That being said, don't you feel like we should be careful about the whole "us vs. them" athmosphere you described? I mean, it's obviously different for us, we do openly oppose something, but still. I do see a lot assupmtions that people are downright evil just because they're on the other side of the fence. There are some deeply troubled people on the other side, people I'd probably clock if I met them in real life, but I've seen little to none evil people on TSR or anyone in the paysite community.

Then again, hate may be the thing that fuels this here project. And I'd hate to see it go.

I think though, its a different atmosphere here.   From what Tomato & Aikea have said, TSR is very insulated and tries to block out rest of the community/world.   At PMBD, you get people from all over-- MATYians, GoSlings, etc.   This place is more of a crossroads where anyone who is truly against paysites can meet up.  But differences of opinion aren't deleted and often things that start here are carried over to all the other communities.  So, we too may have a "us vs. them" mentality, but given the response when certain pay creators goes free, I'd say we don't go as far as making out everyone to be "evil".

[SoggyFox]

I think the other difference is, except for truely horrid people we'd happily accept pay creators who go free.  Its more like we're against their action [of charging] and less against the people themselves.

And i keep thinking of this little bit of irony - the 'excuse' for not having anything to do with MTS2 on TSR is thier adult content, yet the stuff on TSR seems a lot more adult, just look at the smutty thread.

[Devilfish]

I guess you're right, maybe I'm picking up something that isn't really there, or not as much as I thought. Like I said, we actually do oppose something real, I guess that makes all the difference. It's just when I see some people (a minority in my experience) making the other side out to be the devil, I get a little nervous. It's a slipper slope.

And I've always wanted to ask; what's a GoSling? I never figured out what GoS stood for.