PMBD

Posted over at N99.



So it's not a paysite per say, but it's definitely odd.  She does mention content, but the post seems to be about a neighborhood, but even lots require game code to work, thus violating the EULA.  But, I think that if enough people see it, they might start getting ideas and have more people willing to fork over money for requested items, and that could be pretty dangerous.

Sounds like she's too darn lazy to make her own neighborhood.   :o

And this needed to be a new thread in ARR! why?  :roll:  You've been around long enough to know better, Sarfina.

Why not? The topic isn't relevant to any currently active threads in ARR!, Arr?, or Sharkbait.

While it hasn't brought a new paysite to our attention it has brought a new facet of the pay for custom content problem to our attention. I, for one, hope that this "request" at N99 doesn't put any ideas into the heads of the paysite owners/creators that frequent that forum. Not that this "commission for custom content" idea is new. Didn't SeraSims  try it at one point?

Guess I was wrong.

I think so, Duckie....I know we did have a discussion about comissions and whether itw as as bad as paysites...and I thin kwe decided it is.

What I can't figure out is why, with all the custom hoods and even custom FURNISHED hoods out there, why the OP at N99 can't just get one of those and spend her money on something real.

That's just lazy, IMO.

in accordance to her tastes?

So you are going to have to send her colour samples and construction papers? i.e blueprints?

WTF?

Some people think having a lot of money let's you enjoy the luxury of being lazy. I think it's the cause of insanity that turns people stupid.

Waste.Of.Money.

And I thought I was lazy.  :shock:

CC Comissions have been around for ever. Micha used to pay eero to make her stuff.
It's just all done under wraps.
Now this is....kinda funny. Who in their right mind would even accept, I wonder?
A whole neighborhood....
Why doesn't she just download a ton of houses and stick 'em in place?
*wishes she had a Red Bull to hand the lazy N99er*

I don't think there is enough information to judge one way or the other.  If we give this person the benefit of the doubt, these possibilities occur to me:

This person does not know where to find custom furnished hoods or doesn't like the ones that are out there.  I've been on the lookout for brand new, furnished and populated hoods, but have not liked what I've seen so far.

As far as creating one's own custom hood, my own attempts so far have been, shall we say, less than spectacular.  That's why I started looking for some in the first place.

Actually, our only real clue to this person's motivation comes from her introductory sentences:



Personally, that sounds like someone with money to burn and who likes to be spoiled.

Tim

I didn't know that, that's just stupid.  Were they only for her, or was it publicly released?

If she was smart and not so lazy/bad with money, the proper thing to do would be to go on the wiki and make a custom neighbourhood with items posted there.
Heck, if you want period stuff just go on All About Style. There's a whack of themed clothes on that site.

Eero made the meshes, Micha sold them to others. I seem to remember (not sure, though, as this was during the sims1 days) that she made the textures and several recolours.

Eero is not a bad guy, he was just misguided. I've exchanged some emails with him and since sims 1 days he's seen the light, so no paysites for him anymore. :)

I personally have no problem with someone paying someone else to make them some custom content. I am paying for a service, just like I would pay someone to bake me a cake or update my website. Just DO NOT expect me to refrain from sharing the end product.  Also, do not expect me to pay for stuff you stole from someone else, or are using illegally, which is what paysites do.   If I pay you to recolor a Maxis mesh for me, I am paying for your services, not the recolor, since it still is a Maxis mesh.  If I pay you to make a neighborhood for me, do not think you have any rights to tell me what to do with said neighborhood.

Anyone want to pay me to recolor something for them?  :lol:

Not one single person replied to that post.  :lol:

*shakes head*

I just don't understand someone either not a) making it themself, or 2) downloading from the talented creators out there (free sites of course).

I can think of plenty others things to spend my money on.



Like more rum  :wink:

If it's going to be stuff that will be shared with everyone, I have no problem with it.
But if it's simply for her, well...I think it's quite selfish.
Yes, yes, it's her money blah blah.
But the point here is trying to stop the exclusive files and THIS could end up being another popular way to lord over someone else what you've got that they don't.
Just like Micha.
And eero, I know, is different now. But past is true and well, he should be able to own up to it without feeling bad if he has changed his way.
Micha, tho...Pfft.
 :lol:

"Paying for a service" is one excuse that a paysite owner would claim. In the past have heard people say they don't like paysites but TSR was different because they were providing a service.  :roll:
IMO paying for a service for someone to make you CC is no different than a paysite.

I don't think it's lazy: I think it's dumb.

I'd consider myself lazy, and to me it is much easier to download a custom neighbourhood if I wanted, and just download themed lots.  There are tons of premade lots, neighbourhood, and themed content out there, that it would be much easier to just download it rather than spend the time telling someone, "Okay, I want this, that, and this - but oh, not that.  And it can't be like this, I prefer it to look more like that, etc, etc."

Too much work.

Dumb.

TSR FA is commission work. Therefore you suck! :lol:

I'm with Ry (hey babe, got some rum?) on this one. Don't like anything that smells of exclusive files, and this does.

Although nobody answered the post I'm sure there are people out there willing to take the commission. I mean, it's a big project, so there'd be a fair amount of money involved. And - as we know - there are creators who really like their money.

* quickly duct tapes Moune to her computer chair *

You stay. I missed you.
*rubs da belly*

Tee hee!

Well, a while ago someone sent me a request for a huge set of very complicated clothes on MTS2. I pmed them back saying their request would take too long, probably 2 months or more of 2-3 hrs every day, and that I wasn't interested in it.
So they pmed me back offering to pay me $20-$30 for it.
Now, assuming it took me 3 hrs/day for 30 days, thats 90 hrs. $20 for 90 hrs is about 20-22 cents/hr :?
Lol, thats a real shit job.Like a sweat shop in Bangledash :lol:  And remember, I can really only sell it the once, I can't create an exclusive item for someone and than distribute it. So my only option would be to shave hours off my production time, and of course that could ony lead to reduced (severely reduced) quality in my productions. So, for me, that's why I wouldn't take a commision. It's just insulting in terms of the money.
 I don't really think of it in the same way as a paysite, because if you really really want something made that no one else seems interested to make for you, this is probably the only way to get it. I would pay someone $10 or $20 to make me a computer that looks like a medieval scroll with a new writing animation, I've wanted one for ever, lol.
(But they'd probably say to me 'That would cost me $200-$500 in my time')
It's also patently obvious that we can't stop it, we can never get those files unless the vendor or the customer agrees to hand them over.
It's also the absolute least profitable form of selling cc, no one will ever pay you for the files what they are worth in terms of labor. And noone will request anything easy like 'ponytail hair with gap' or 'shitty photoskinned bikini' So I don't think it will ever catch on in the larger sense.

Now,I just wonder how much this person was willing to pay for an entire complete nh? I made myself one medieval themed hood from scratch, it took FOREVER! I couldn't make someone one for less than $1000, honestly :D  My time is just worth too much to me to let it go for pennies an hour.
Lol, I hope I'm not coming off sounding pro-paysite, I'm not, but this cc commision thing is just so different to me than just slapping up random five minute files on your site and selling them for 50 cents a pop. It's SO labor intensive to make good cc.
I pmed this person back saying 'At my job, I make about $20/hr. 90 x 20 is $1800 :twisted: '
What ever I do for free I do for pleasure. Whatever I do for money is REALLY going to cost you :lol:

Good point, dr. Philthy. I guess I just assumed that this person is willing to pay in the hundreds for their personalized neighbourhood. I certainly hope this commission thing won't catch on at all.

Ry, if you're going to keep me captured here, how about bringing me a bottle? And I'm not talking about milk here. :wink:

See, there really is no difference in my opinion. Even if you try to state that what is being commissioned is the creator's time, not the product, the fact remains that the time would not be compensated without receipt of the end product. So we have a creator being paid for their time using EAxis' tools and materials to create a product that is unusable without EAxis' tools and materials and which is in package/pack format...a format they wouldn't have access to without EAxis' tools and materials.

Is it technically against the EULA? Kind of gray. The creator isn't posting it to their website, so they aren't using it for their commercial website. However, it looks to me that it is violating "you may not modify, reverse engineer, disassemble, license, transfer, distribute, create works from, or sell the Tool, or use the Tools & Materials to further any commercial or unlawful purpose". Getting money = commercial purpose.

Anyways. Original poster at N99 is a lazy ass. I understand wanting to spoil oneself, but get something else. I'm tempted to smack those here who have stated that they would take/consider taking such a request, but whatev.

If someone I didn't really know asked me to make an object I was not particularly motivated to make and offer to pay me for it I think I would say yes (depending on the price).  As dr.philthy mentioned I think it's higher than this chick realizes.  The charge would be for the mesh, though and my time making that, and that is what they would pay me for and get to keep.  Now, if they want that placed into a sims .package file I will do that for them free of charge (after payment and mesh exchange), but they would have to know that the .package file doesn't belong to them or me, it belongs to EA, and can be shared according to EA's terms and conditions.

Well, for me the issue isn't really with the EULA. Obvoiusly no matter how you go about it, profiting from cc is still forbidden by the EULA.
The issue is more that you can't really expect a perfect stranger to undertake a hugely comlicated task for you, particularly one in which they have little personal interest, without offering them some form of compensation.
I'm not trying to state that what is being commisioned is the labour, not the product, I'm blatantly saying it's both.
Production costs factor heavily into any purchase you'll ever make. Surely noone would be compensated for their time without receipt of the end product, but the end product would not exist without the time invested to create it.
And to me it is crystal clear that this is still rendered perfectly illegal by the EULA.

I can't say I think the poster at N99 is a lazy ass. Is anyone who plays PleasantView, StrangeTown, etc... a lazy ass?
This person just wants a brand new nh to play with, and would rather invest money than time for it. Transactions like that make the world go round.
Bottom line on cc commisions is that we won't be able to stop it.
Though I agree with Sherry and Kariminger that obviously EA's ownership of .packages supercedes any contract between other parties, there is just zero way to get said files.
I'm not sure if I would take a cc commision or not, but if I did and the person did not want me to distribute the files I wouldn't. I make PLENTY of files I don't distribute, and some I send only to my friends if I want (for free mind you). In that case I do ask that people not distribute those 'gifts' because I feel if the .packages have not been posted, they are still mine. EA can take files I have posted on the web if they want, but they can not come into my house and take them from my hard drive.
I can't say I think it's too different.

*lugs in a crate of rum bottles*
Here we are dear.
*passes Moune healthy snacks*
Lemme know if you gotta potty. I may have a chamberpot around here somewhere... :lol:

Bah.
Lazy...nothing wrong with it. I'm lazy. Atleast I didn't pull out the "C" word, right? Right?
 :lol:

I can see why she may not want to make her own. But I still can't understand why anyone would want to take this offer or even put it out there. Why not download houses and stick them into your neighborhood yourself? Doesn't take *too* long.
I dunno. Not following the loop here, I suppose.

Better still why not download the complete *free* neighbourhoods available around the place.  They have about 3 at Genesims, 1 at MTS2, and numerous others that I've seen around the place.

Nothing personal, Dr. Philthy, but that's where I'd begin to have issues. I mean with creating stuff and only giving it to a few select friends, but not allowing it to be redistributed or shared in any way.

Of course your friends might all be sensible nice people who keep your gifts to themselves and only take pleasure from them in private, but there are certainly also many others who will use that kind of gifts to show off and boast about how "close" they are to the creator. How much better they are compared to everyone else who haven't been favoured with the same item, and therefore obviously must be insignificant and inferior people. "And, no, you can't all have this beautiful outfit, because it was a personal gift to ME and it is therefore UNAVAILABLE".

IMO we've already had way too much of that kind of thing in this community, and if I'm not completely wrong SFV - or at least some of its predecessors - was started exactly because of such condescending behavior.

Edited because Ry brought the rum.
*Grabs a bottle* Wonderful! Thanks my lovely. I sure missed you too. *kisses Ry on cheek*
Now let the party begin.  :lol:

Well, I don't take anything personally, really :lol:
I agree that is really silly and snobbish behaviour, and if anybody ever sees someone doing that and saying I (iamliz13 at MTS2) am the creator please, pm me here or at MTS poste haste and the item will be uploaded immediately=)If I gave someone a nice sweater IRL, I wouldn't expect them to wave it around at people saying 'Lookie what I got, bitches'  I do not do it to exclude anyone, or even because I like to keep things to myself, it's actually down to my personal laziness and lack of time. I like to only upload things in sets,screenshots etc take forever. So chances are, if I've made something and it's not part of a set it won't get uploaded.

I do agree it seems silly to want to pay someone to make you a hood when there are some already available for free. I wonder what it is she wants so specific that she can't just modify an available one?
I can for sure understand wanting an entire premade hood though, where you can just start playing immediately, if you don't like building and decorating. Sometimes I love building and decorating, and sometimes I hate it sooo much, lol.

LOL that is why I won't be offered up any commission any time soon.  As soon as the mesh is in the .package I would share it.  They only way they would be able to keep that baby exclusive is if they didn't want me to .package it for them and if they are going to go that route then I would suggest getting a done by a more talented 3D modelist (word?) who would undoubtedly do a better, faster and cheaper job.  

I think it's hard to say though there is no possible way to profit from commissions that would be legal.  Buying selling models and textures are all legal.  Models and textures are the hardest and most time consuming part of making an object.  As a creator you own that work and can charge for it.  If I were to make a whole bunch of vacation themed models I could charge for the models.  Infact there are plenty of sites dedicated to making low poly tanks and guns that people buy for other video games.  That is why I have always said to creators who complain about the time and efforts models take to just sell the freaking models if they are so concerned.  Don't put it in the .package and make sure your agreement with the buyer very clearly excludes any distribution of the model.

Which OT a bit is actually very funny because alot of these model that people pay for (or steal) are only supposed to be used for renderings or the likes.  They clearly are not supposed to be distributed or profited from as models.  If you are distributing a .package file, you are also distributing a model (it takes .2 seconds to extract), and if you don't have permission then congrats, you are breaking more contracts than EA's.  

I personally don't see any problem with someone who was dying to have a certain bed or sofa ect. in the game ask and pay for someone to make them that model.  I don't see that problem with after someone made them that model and payment was complete that they or said creator put that model and it's textures into a .package file.  Hell before I could create I would have considered doing that myself.   Personally I think that is better than going out and just purchasing a model because you know the creator of the model is giving you permission to add it to a .package and therefore agrees to EA's terms of use.  So long as both parties are aware that the .package can not be charged for and if someone else gets ahold of it, it's fair game, then I don't really see anything wrong with it.

You can't really do that with a 'hood file/lot file, which makes this one a no-brainer. The clothing/object mesh work-around is sneaky and deserves much smackage, but you could feasibly get away with it.

And yes. People who play Pleasantview/Veronaville/Strangetown...you are lazy asses. *


*Not really. I prefer my custom everything, with my own terrains and families and houses. I play a 90% CC game. Stupid walls, foundations, and roofs! (Although I almost all my roof patterns are CC as well). But most of my CC is downloaded, which in turn makes me a lazy ass.

I'm pretty sure the ONLY instance where you could feasibly get away with selling someone a seperate 3d model and appropriate texture .bmp and not be in violation of the EULA is in the case of completely static objects
with no game interactions what so ever (including 'look at' or whatever it's called)

Anything with any kind of animation, which is pretty much every kind of object(anything with an interaction) and all clothing, and hair too(hopefully), uses EAs animation code. When I make a clothing mesh, not only do I start with an EA mesh as my base, but I always use all of EAs bone assignments which they created for the sims 2 game EVEN IF I MAKE A PART ENTIRELY MYSELF. If I didn't use this, my mesh would not work and your sim would not move, or maybe the mesh would 'explode' as sims 2 meshes are fond of doing (I actually don't know what a non-animated clothing mesh would do)

 Maybe if I sold someone an unboned(sims bone assignments belonging to EA) appropriately sized 3d model which I did not start with game mesh to make (which would be immpossible, in terms of correct sizing) and a 1024x1024 bmp for texture( I could not use BodyShop to preview while I made it either, but Milkshape displays textures pretty nice), and than I required that they do the bone assignments themselves (it takes forever), and use BodyShop themselves to connect the bmp to the mesh, than I could do it without violating the terms of the EULA.
However, I don't think any one does it this way or ever will.  Most people would not want to have to bone a mesh themselves, it would be way easier to just make the whole mesh yourself 99% of the time.
 
Or, I suppose I could say I did the bone assignments and connecting the texture in BodyShop for free, and charged only for the mesh and texture, provided I hadn't used any of EAs tools (which is really totally impossible for someone who has only sims 2 meshing experience)
When I make a mesh, I use EAs hands, feet, necks, and any other parts I can, because it's too long and complicated to make your own if you don't have to. So I have used EAs animation code long before I put the mesh into a .package. It already belonged to EA the second I loaded it into my Milkshape. If you have had a Sims 2 mesh and your mesh loaded into your 3d program at the same time while you were working on it, you'll lose your case, I guarantee :lol:

The only reason I think the commisioning is different is because we just can't do anything about it, other than discourage it. I don't think it's any more or less illegal than a paysite, I just think it will never catch on the way paysites did, mainly because I think most people don't have a clear idea of what they want for cc, and prefer to just see whats out there.
Many people who could afford a tailor still prefer ready to wear, etc...