Wicked Sims takes a stand

[Roxelane]

free distributing, PMBD, is only weapon approximately pay, FFFSS is useless. One may not tolerate law crushers (pay), otherwise injustice becomes rightfully.

freies Verteilen (PMBD) ist einzige Waffe gegen pay. FFFSS ist nutzlos. Man darf Gesetzesbrecher (pay) nicht tolerieren, sonst wird Unrecht zu Recht.

[Anouk]

I don't care for FFSS.

I want to know how we can help Wicked Sims get better non screwing hosting. This exact same problem happened to me at Shinjiru, and I only got it solved by getting hosted by Pescado.
If Sims websites are becoming so expensive to run because of (imaginative) CPU as the host says, what do you do to change it?

It also seems a bit curious that this happens the week they announce they are going to link to PMND in their downloads. I remember a few months ago, that someone left a guestbook entree warning about people trying to take down noukiesims2.net. I never found or got any evidence, but the SAME thing happening, the SAME way, after a site makes a stand against paysites like this, seems very curious to me.

[Duckie]

I want to know how we can help Wicked Sims get better non screwing hosting.

I sent her a note saying that she's got my help. I'm just waiting to hear what she decides.  

[Quorneater]

Well I am going to exercise my right to defend the FFSS in a thread where it has been attacked.   There are a handful of people here who dislike me personally and are trying to get at me by attacking what is a perfectly good and popular website.

You are also talking a load of ignorant nonsense about what it does and doesn't do, who runs it, who belongs to it and what the guidelines are.  Just because you can't actually be bothered to read anything on it or keep up to date with it doesn't make your invented version correct.

It wouldn't matter what I did with the site, the people who don't like me would continue to dislike me and would simply begin to attack me for different reasons.

I am not going to play old-man-little-boy-and-donkey any longer.  The poll over there will now be closed, and pirate sites will not be listed.  I believe that any sims creator, pay or free, holds the ethical rights to their own part of the work, and I do not approve of unauthorised filesharing no matter what EA says or doesn't say.  End of.

Well unless I decide to do the next thing I was thinking of, and start a Federation for Sims Pay Sites   Maybe together we can fight the unreasonable EA EULA...

[MoonDragon]

Your right, Nouk.  It is all very strangely coincidental.  I suppose hacking might be to blame.  Unless someone steps up to host all of those sites the only thing we can do without any evidence of foulplay is to chip in as we are able to and help her buy what she needs to keep going.  We could help spread the word that she needs help once she makes her decision too.

[Anouk]

Well I am going to exercise my right to defend the FFSS in a thread where it has been attacked.   There are a handful of people here who dislike me personally and are trying to get at me by attacking what is a perfectly good and popular website.

You are also talking a load of ignorant nonsense about what it does and doesn't do, who runs it, who belongs to it and what the guidelines are.  Just because you can't actually be bothered to read anything on it or keep up to date with it doesn't make your invented version correct.

It wouldn't matter what I did with the site, the people who don't like me would continue to dislike me and would simply begin to attack me for different reasons.

I am not going to play old-man-little-boy-and-donkey any longer.  The poll over there will now be closed, and pirate sites will not be listed.  I believe that any sims creator, pay or free, holds the ethical rights to their own part of the work, and I do not approve of unauthorised filesharing no matter what EA says or doesn't say.  End of.

Well unless I decide to do the next thing I was thinking of, and start a Federation for Sims Pay Sites   Maybe together we can fight the unreasonable EA EULA...

Still don't care for FFSS. You can do what you want Inge, the fact that I don't care for FFSS doesn't mean I have something personally against you. I just don't think it's that important anymore, because for me FFSS is too double.
You are probably going to say this next move of yours comes from caring for all creators, but you should realize not all creators care for you, paysite owners will simply shrug and be happy, continueing on doing whatever they want. Your sense of 'doing the right thing' is only helping them out, and this is woprking against your own goals.
You are 'respecting' a group of people in the community, who do not only not respect a games EULA, but who make use (abuse) all the free tools, all the free tutorials, all the free help they recieved on creating their stuff, then turned and put their stuff behind a pay wall.

Anyone pointing people in the right direction, are not listed by your group of sites anymore. You are simply creating an isolation in the free community.

Now if these creators weren't doing anything illegal I'd understand. Now if PMND was in fact doing something illegal I'd understand.

But you guys are now respecting the wishes of thise who are not only morally and ethically in the wrong, but are also doing illegal activities.
And then banning the mention of those who are supporting perfectly legal activities.

Since many people have allready pointed this out, and you just ignored it, this is where FFSS stands on this:



Paysites
* Use free resources provided by the community, to sell to the same community.
* Break EA's EULA, and are therefore breaking a law and subject to legal action
* Divide a community
* Lock their creations up behing a paywall, so that those who helped them achieve their knowledge about creating, cannot even get the creation.
* Tend to never educate other creators because of a sense of competition, hoard knowledge so they can protect their income
* The TOS and wishes surrounding their creations, are only created not to share, but to protect their income
* They are all about sharing? No.. not even after you pay them.

Seems like paysites are screwing over more than just EA. They are screweing YOU.

PMND
* Does not respect pay creators wishes for above reasons.
* Credits pay creators for their work.
* Removes files as soon as a site goes free.
* Provides payfiles that should be free according to EA

FFSS
Unlists free sites who link to PMND and bans linking to them.


And you still don't get why FFSS is actually helping paysites.
Maybe you are too proud to see it, but paysites have alot to thank you for. You are actively protecting paysites income and motivating them to continue on.

You once asked Delphy why payfile recolors are allowed to be uploaded, and I agree that does not help the cause... but the largest sites are allready allowing linking to PMND.  

What is the reasoning behind confirming paysites in their demands (my stuff is mine to sell no matter what EA says)?

[Pescado]

The United Federation of Inges is irrelevant, anyway. They don't make content, they don't host content, they don't tell people how to really do any of the above. It serves no real purpose.

[Anouk]

The United Federation of Inges is irrelevant, anyway. They don't make content, they don't host content, they don't tell people how to really do any of the above. It serves no real purpose.

Well, if Inge is simply passing up a chance to make a real change just because of pride, then there is no cause for them. They missed their purpose. Like this, all they do is isolate a group of free sites together, while still supporting paysites in their outragious demand of rights.

[Quorneater]

Anyone pointing people in the right direction, are not listed by your group of sites anymore.

Thank you for illustrating my point about people not being sure of their facts.  This is no longer true.  The last poll voted against the no-pirate-sites linking rule and we now DO list sites who link to PMBD etc.

If there was any guideline I *would* like added to Sims community ethics it would be that people actually know the facts about anything before they publish information  

Look - I suggest everyone should just regard the FFSS as a site with a useful list of free fansites.  That's really the only interest I have in the whole thing - the fun I had learning the php and mysql to write the database front end.   In many many ways I wish I had never got involved in all this and just want to go back to subscribing to good paysites and start enjoying my game again.  I am sick of denying myself my favourite SimGedoehns and Windkeeper content just to show support for people who - let's face it - the majority of them aren't really sure what they believe and there is a hell of a lot of hypocrisy I have spotted since taking on the FFSS work.

Edited:  Just wanted to add I never intended to be running the FFSS personally in the first place.  I was just lending the space and domain costs similar to what I did with the Poser Initiative.  The idea was I would just do the technical admin and it would be run by whoever the members elected to run it.  Eventually everyone asked me to take over running it because everyone was fighting.   I really really would not be sorry to be able to use this thread as my excuse to have a hissy and close the whole thing.

[MoonDragon]

I am not going to play old-man-little-boy-and-donkey any longer.  The poll over there will now be closed, and pirate sites will not be listed.  I believe that any sims creator, pay or free, holds the ethical rights to their own part of the work, and I do not approve of unauthorised filesharing no matter what EA says or doesn't say.  End of.

Well unless I decide to do the next thing I was thinking of, and start a Federation for Sims Pay Sites   Maybe together we can fight the unreasonable EA EULA...

followed by

Thank you for illustrating my point about people not being sure of their facts. This is no longer true. The last poll voted against the no-pirate-sites linking rule and we now DO list sites who link to PMBD etc.

If there was any guideline I *would* like added to Sims community ethics it would be that people actually know the facts about anything before they publish information

Hrm.  I think Sybil would like her brain back now please.   :roll:

[Roxelane]

Well I am going to exercise my right to defend the FFSS in a thread where it has been attacked.   There are a handful of people here who dislike me personally and are trying to get at me by attacking what is a perfectly good and popular website.

You are also talking a load of ignorant nonsense about what it does and doesn't do, who runs it, who belongs to it and what the guidelines are.  Just because you can't actually be bothered to read anything on it or keep up to date with it doesn't make your invented version correct.

It wouldn't matter what I did with the site, the people who don't like me would continue to dislike me and would simply begin to attack me for different reasons.

I am not going to play old-man-little-boy-and-donkey any longer.  The poll over there will now be closed, and pirate sites will not be listed.  I believe that any sims creator, pay or free, holds the ethical rights to their own part of the work, and I do not approve of unauthorised filesharing no matter what EA says or doesn't say.  End of.

Well unless I decide to do the next thing I was thinking of, and start a Federation for Sims Pay Sites   Maybe together we can fight the unreasonable EA EULA...

Still don't care for FFSS. You can do what you want Inge, the fact that I don't care for FFSS doesn't mean I have something personally against you. I just don't think it's that important anymore, because for me FFSS is too double.
You are probably going to say this next move of yours comes from caring for all creators, but you should realize not all creators care for you, paysite owners will simply shrug and be happy, continueing on doing whatever they want. Your sense of 'doing the right thing' is only helping them out, and this is woprking against your own goals.
You are 'respecting' a group of people in the community, who do not only not respect a games EULA, but who make use (abuse) all the free tools, all the free tutorials, all the free help they recieved on creating their stuff, then turned and put their stuff behind a pay wall.

Anyone pointing people in the right direction, are not listed by your group of sites anymore. You are simply creating an isolation in the free community.

Now if these creators weren't doing anything illegal I'd understand. Now if PMND was in fact doing something illegal I'd understand.

But you guys are now respecting the wishes of thise who are not only morally and ethically in the wrong, but are also doing illegal activities.
And then banning the mention of those who are supporting perfectly legal activities.

Since many people have allready pointed this out, and you just ignored it, this is where FFSS stands on this:



Paysites
* Use free resources provided by the community, to sell to the same community.
* Break EA's EULA, and are therefore breaking a law and subject to legal action
* Divide a community
* Lock their creations up behing a paywall, so that those who helped them achieve their knowledge about creating, cannot even get the creation.
* Tend to never educate other creators because of a sense of competition, hoard knowledge so they can protect their income
* The TOS and wishes surrounding their creations, are only created not to share, but to protect their income
* They are all about sharing? No.. not even after you pay them.

Seems like paysites are screwing over more than just EA. They are screweing YOU.

PMND
* Does not respect pay creators wishes for above reasons.
* Credits pay creators for their work.
* Removes files as soon as a site goes free.
* Provides payfiles that should be free according to EA

FFSS
Unlists free sites who link to PMND and bans linking to them.


And you still don't get why FFSS is actually helping paysites.
Maybe you are too proud to see it, but paysites have alot to thank you for. You are actively protecting paysites income and motivating them to continue on.

You once asked Delphy why payfile recolors are allowed to be uploaded, and I agree that does not help the cause... but the largest sites are allready allowing linking to PMND.  

What is the reasoning behind confirming paysites in their demands (my stuff is mine to sell no matter what EA says)?

agree fully
Roxelane

[Anouk]

I am not going to play old-man-little-boy-and-donkey any longer.  The poll over there will now be closed, and pirate sites will not be listed.  I believe that any sims creator, pay or free, holds the ethical rights to their own part of the work, and I do not approve of unauthorised filesharing no matter what EA says or doesn't say.  End of.

Well unless I decide to do the next thing I was thinking of, and start a Federation for Sims Pay Sites   Maybe together we can fight the unreasonable EA EULA...

followed by

Thank you for illustrating my point about people not being sure of their facts. This is no longer true. The last poll voted against the no-pirate-sites linking rule and we now DO list sites who link to PMBD etc.

If there was any guideline I *would* like added to Sims community ethics it would be that people actually know the facts about anything before they publish information

Hrm.  I think Sybil would like her brain back now please.   :roll:

I was going to say that, but I think I was misunderstood purposely so Inge  wouldn't have to answer to the rest of the post.
Could you react to that part, just to know I didn't write all that for nothing? Can you explain why, knowing all that, you still decide to support and confirm payistes in this way?

I mean, when you started this, you wanted to make a change. You wanted to help people get informed, get acces to free sites, amke free sites better known.
Next FFSS (not you personally) sets up some rules for free sites, so that they don't link to paysites and advertise for them.
But then, you help paysites (the ones who are breaking EULA, law, AND abuse a community)by confirming, (acknowledging you agree) and supporting their behaviour, by helping them censor file sharing sites that are not, again NOT breaking ANY law.

It's not wrong to rethink the ways in wich FFSS operates.

You tell us it's not that important somehow because you feel you want paysite items etc. and you'd rather give it up... after bringing up FFSS yourself, I KNOW you find it important. So I think this was out of frustration.

We are not working against you, we are simply pointing out that your goals are not being reached, and it vcould be easily changed. Plus we feel like we're not that welcome, and that it's not right because we are actually not doing anything wrong.

[Quorneater]

I was going to say that, but I think I was misunderstood purposely so Inge  wouldn't have to answer to the rest of the post.
Could you react to that part, just to know I didn't write all that for nothing? Can you explain why, knowing all that, you still decide to support and confirm payistes in this way?

Well I am not sure it's entirely a logic process on my part, but as a human being I can't help noticing that I have suffered a lot more unpleasantness from people who are supporting filesharing than I ever have from people who support paysites.  It's colouring my attitudes.

[Anouk]

I was going to say that, but I think I was misunderstood purposely so Inge  wouldn't have to answer to the rest of the post.
Could you react to that part, just to know I didn't write all that for nothing? Can you explain why, knowing all that, you still decide to support and confirm payistes in this way?

Well I am not sure it's entirely a logic process on my part, but as a human being I can't help noticing that I have suffered a lot more unpleasantness from people who are supporting filesharing than I ever have from people who support paysites.  It's colouring my attitudes.

Elaborate... did we steal from you? Did we take your money... did we take your free tools and used them to get paid? Did we disrespect you by expecting you to pay for stuff you made possible in the first place?

No..?


All the hard times you get from filesharers is a reaction, you label filesharers as being wrong, and supporting (not intentionally) paysites, while saying FFSS is for free sites...
You may not do it intentionally at all, but it's working against
1. your own goals you had in mind with FFSS  
2. awareness and knowledge from the community you want to protect and help  

And more importantly, filesharing is NOT illegal. Selling Sims 2 custom content IS. Why would you choose to protect the 'rights' of those who are harming you and the community?

p.s. human beings are welcome at the Nouk Cult!!
We currently have no goals, except Bacardi!

[Quorneater]

You'd be quite right - it's frustration speaking.  Now I am going to go and wallow in frustration away from this thread!  I don't have anything useful to add right now.