OFFICIAL THANK YOU THREAD

[Mheyin]

And oh, yeah.  Mages in D&D don't cast spells in the nude, either.  They still need some form of armor class - they wear Robes.

This may be true, but we still force our magic-users to play naked.

[Cat Jane]

Thank you! 

[SoggyFox]

Actually, the idea of magic being done in the nude is victorian - its up there with white wedding dress and Handal's wedding march.  Some princess did it, so everyone copied it, and since the victorian era, everyone thinks its some old, old custom - its not.

Same with magic - Victorian times were extremely restrictive, so the 'occult' became very popular, and included dancing around outside with no clothing, up to orgies.

While there is no one 'olde tyme religion' that makes up paganism, any worship of pre-christian deities from the Mediterranean and Europe classify as pagan.  Some pagans include any non-judeo-christian faith system, just as native american and asian, but those probably shouldn't for a variety of reason.

Modern Wicca though is a completely new faith, really, just pulling from older things, much like who Christianity was new once and pulled from older things.

[Immortelle]

The Victorian era is responsible for a lot of modern day western misconceptions.  Like the idea that belly dancing is some strange and scandalous style of dance that was performed for the enjoyment of men.  This is not true, as danse orientale is a part of many middle eastern and mediterranian cultures.  Afghanistan (khaleegi), Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey and Greece (tsifatelli) all have their unique styles.  Pretty much all the women grow up learning to belly dance as a form of execise.  But the victorians, when they saw this were scandalised by such 'suggestive undulations of the body'.  And its had a dodgy reputation ever since.

Granted some of the Wiccan practices are based on old pagan beliefs.  But all the true pagan cultures from the British Isles have been lost, wiped out by the Romans, and various other cultures.  (Teutonic cultures.  The Christian church did the majority of the damage, however.)  But many Wiccan covens will worship Egyptian and Greek gods, rather than the likes of Ceridwen and Epona.  Granted its not necessarily  the God as such but the energy that they represent that is called upon during any Rite.  And many of the worshipping practices that are performed are based on Egyptian ritual and magic as performed by ancient Egyptian priests and recorded in the Book of the Dead, parts of which were displayed within the tombs of the deceased, and others carefully transcribed onto papyrus scrolls.

[SoggyFox]

Yeah - I'm a solitary practioner, so I really don't know much about current practices, except in theory and bits and pieces.

I tend to call on who works best for what I need, or who feels right.  I know I hop around pantheons alot, but I do tend to stick more with celtic than any other *hides her Isis and Sekhmet statues*

[Alexia]

In Greece it's called Tsifteteli. Fun Facts Gallore: Belly dancing origninated as a male bachic dance, wherein a young man would "promote" his flexibility and sexual prowess. Later it was taken over by eunichs and finally in the late 17th century by harem concubines. The Tsifteteli is quite easy and fun to do (that's if you don't mind dancing on tables in high heels  ) but demands a good sense of balance. It helps develop abs too!

Too bad my hubby hates going out to Greek music places. One does not look as sexy whilst headbanging 

[Paden]

Don't get me started on the Victorians, they're the morons that are responsible for the idea of Vikings having horns and wings upon helmets. Nothing could be farther from the truth because their armor was designed not to give an enemy sword anything to find purchase upon and do damage to the wearer underneath! The ideal was clean, smooth metal without edges for other weapons to catch. As I recall, it was the English, French and German that went in for all of the fancy scalloping and garbage. Also, of what use to a berserker in battle are horns upon the helmet? He can't aim the damn things to gore anyone with, they just add weight and bulk and someone could catch hold of his head and take it off by grabbing the horns! DUH!

As for wings? That's just silly, it's not like it's gonna help them fly over the battle and pick a foe from the crowd, or get them out of a pickle. Of what practical use is ornamentation in battle except for the enemy to pick you out and target you. Bleh, people with no common sense... Stupid fuckers...

[SoggyFox]

Victorians I think also promoted the whole vikings as bloodthirsty barbarians.  And if you want to hear a rant about how vikings are portrayed in the media?  One of my housemates is Astaru and half swedish - he can really go off on that subject for hours, a bit like me and the fluffy bunny pagan

[Immortelle]

Most belly dance styles are pretty good for the abs, except for khaleegi (sort of pronounced haleezhi) which has a lot of slight lifting of the besequined robe (called a thobe), moving about with what looks like a slight limp and tossing the hair.  Modern Egyptian is really demanding on most muscles because it has a lot of layer upon layer movement.

[Darqstar]

I'm all for any religion that involves nekid men.  I wish mine would. 

Honestly, I do joke a lot about religion, but that's mostly because mine has been so screwed up (Christianity)  It boggles my mind how much blood has been shed in the name of someone who thought it might be cool if we could all just mellow out and get along.  I mean for pete's sake, Jesus hung out with leapers, tax collectors, women,  and all sorts of types who were on the lower end of the social scale at the time.  Yet, we have people screaming how Jesus hates homosexuals, or anyone who isn't a WASP.  I'm convinced that if Jesus were alive today, he'd be hanging out with societies fringes and volunteering his time to work with aides victims.  He'd be over in Africa trying to help the gangs of street children who've been orphaned because of aids.

He would not be sitting in Texas, with Bush.  That's not an anti Bush statement, the man is out of office, let's let the jokes end.  But I don't believe you'd find Jesus hanging with the white, uptight crowd that runs the country.  If I read my bible correctly, he got pissed at those types a lot.

This is why I don't belong to any particular church.  I won't, unless I'm able to start my own, which would be called The Church of Common Sense.  It's also why I believe that as long as your religion doesn't fringe on the rights of others, then more power to you.  I think that God takes many forms, and can be male or female.  I also believe that if he's the big bad bastard in charge of everything, everywhere, he has better things to do than to smite people for having the nerve to believe  in something different from the norm. 

I actually think God respects any religion that believes in respecting the Earth.  God made the earth, I'd imagine he'd like us to treat it with a little more respect.  Yet, a lot of people who profess to be Christians, also believe that the rapture is coming, so we might as well muck up the place all we like. 

*leaps off soap box*

But still, I like the idea of a  religion that would have naked men in it.  I'd probably make it a point to go to services more often. 

[SoggyFox]

I'm all for any religion that involves nekid men.  I wish mine would. 

Honestly, I do joke a lot about religion, but that's mostly because mine has been so screwed up (Christianity)  It boggles my mind how much blood has been shed in the name of someone who thought it might be cool if we could all just mellow out and get along.  I mean for pete's sake, Jesus hung out with leapers, tax collectors, women,  and all sorts of types who were on the lower end of the social scale at the time.  Yet, we have people screaming how Jesus hates homosexuals, or anyone who isn't a WASP.  I'm convinced that if Jesus were alive today, he'd be hanging out with societies fringes and volunteering his time to work with aides victims.  He'd be over in Africa trying to help the gangs of street children who've been orphaned because of aids.

He would not be sitting in Texas, with Bush.  That's not an anti Bush statement, the man is out of office, let's let the jokes end.  But I don't believe you'd find Jesus hanging with the white, uptight crowd that runs the country.  If I read my bible correctly, he got pissed at those types a lot.

This is why I don't belong to any particular church.  I won't, unless I'm able to start my own, which would be called The Church of Common Sense.  It's also why I believe that as long as your religion doesn't fringe on the rights of others, then more power to you.  I think that God takes many forms, and can be male or female.  I also believe that if he's the big bad bastard in charge of everything, everywhere, he has better things to do than to smite people for having the nerve to believe  in something different from the norm. 

I actually think God respects any religion that believes in respecting the Earth.  God made the earth, I'd imagine he'd like us to treat it with a little more respect.  Yet, a lot of people who profess to be Christians, also believe that the rapture is coming, so we might as well muck up the place all we like. 

*leaps off soap box*

But still, I like the idea of a  religion that would have naked men in it.  I'd probably make it a point to go to services more often. 

And that, in a nutshell is why I stopped calling myself a Christian years ago.  I got tired of all the backbiting between denominations and even, in some cases, churches.  I grew up Catholic, but I 1> didn't really agree that women were incapable of being priests [at age 5], 2> didn't want to be associated with people teaching hate, of any sort.

I still follow the 2 commandments, Love the Divine, and Love your Neighbors as Yourself.  I might take the neighbors a bit more broadly than some, in that I think it includes any living things, and not just the people on your block but I won't link myself to hypocrisy and hatemongering.  You're right, he did hang out with all sorts of people, and didn't care what society thought.

[dusdeedawn]

The Church of Common Sense is something I could see myself getting behind. The problem with Christianity, and indeed with every religion I've encountered, is that at some point people try to use it for their own gain. I think that people have been using Christianity for selfish purposes for a very long time (*cough*Constantine*cough*) and it's rather ruined it for the people who could really use some good stuff in their life.

[Devilfish]

I was raised catholic and it completely warped me, to the point where I still sort of believe in hell an the fact I'm going there for... well, pretty much everything I did from age 11 up. We'll see. If being pagan and having sex before a priest says it's okay gets me kicked down to hell, at least I'll know the truth: that there really is no justice in the universe.

[Immortelle]

Oh dear.  Had to read that last bit twice.  Missed the bit where it says "says its okay".    .  Having sex before a priest by Catholic standards would most certainly see you burning in hell 

[Devilfish]

Oh dear.  Had to read that last bit twice.  Missed the bit where it says "says its okay".    .  Having sex before a priest by Catholic standards would most certainly see you burning in hell 

  I knew that sentence structure was wonky. I can't get much worse though. With all the crap I've pulled Dante will need to make up a new circle of hell just for me.