I dont pay for a damn thing and I'll tell you why...

[JMZ]

Lessee...

Base game £18 (2nd hand - got me hooked)
Uni £15.99
Nl £17.99
OFB £14.99
Pests £16.99
Seasons £14.99 (on preorder)
Christmas Party pack £6.99


Yup - toofuckinmuch.... And that's without ripoff stuff packs...

[OneEyedWillie]

I agree with you on all your points, but I would like to just make a comment in regards to MTS2 and Delphy.  TBH I don't care if he uses the donations that are left over for personal use.....because 1. do the donations actually meet all the costs per month on MTS2?  it's approx $1500/month, and if they do and delphy lives off that, well then so be it cause as 2. he is constantly working on MTS2 to make it better..... now please don't think I'm a delphy lover and kiss his ass, far from it, he doesn't even know i exist and I can care less if he doesn't.  

That said though, I have been having problems with MTS2 for the last 4 months, and even with the new thingy that he installed that was supposed to cut down on the 503 pages, i still get them about 95% of the time and makes me not want to download from there.....but eh *shrugs* I guess that's neither here nor there....

[FreeShitOnly]

I agree with you on all your points, but I would like to just make a comment in regards to MTS2 and Delphy.  TBH I don't care if he uses the donations that are left over for personal use.....because 1. do the donations actually meet all the costs per month on MTS2?  it's approx $1500/month, and if they do and delphy lives off that, well then so be it cause as 2. he is constantly working on MTS2 to make it better..... now please don't think I'm a delphy lover and kiss his ass, far from it, he doesn't even know i exist and I can care less if he doesn't.  

That said though, I have been having problems with MTS2 for the last 4 months, and even with the new thingy that he installed that was supposed to cut down on the 503 pages, i still get them about 95% of the time and makes me not want to download from there.....but eh *shrugs* I guess that's neither here nor there....

So in essence, if someone as talented as Delphy makes MTS2 his career so to speak, then it is okay to then use monies acquired through donations to live off of.. ?

Although I have no problemm with that site at all.. Im using the example to point out a possible double standard.. However, I do see the difference between that and intentionally witholding items until someone pays for the shit.

[OneEyedWillie]

well one thing that's very important here is that all donations are voluntary, you don't have to give.  And he actually works on the site....but no I don't think it's necessarily right to make it your career, actually it doesn't sit that well with me, but then I look at friends of mine who do site support for a living and they are paid and they work on tons of sites(that usually have outside revenues and can afford them).  So in some way i guess this is the same thing, other than the fact that it's a free site and the money's gotta come from somewhere.  I don't know if the donations that delphy gets actually covers the monthly costs.  It would be nice if he were a bit more open about everything.  Such as exactly how much it costs per month AND the amount he gets in donations, etc.......I know he mentions how much things are but it would be nice to see things broken down.

[redisenchanted]

I wish all sites would be open about income and expenses. We have no way of knowing if Delphy is just covering expenses or making a living off of MTS2. It's not the same thing as a paysite though, you don't have to donate to get content.

[dorquemada]

Yup. If I donate on my free will just because I feel like it and I don't expect any trinket in return, I don't mind if donatees go and have a drunken wild party with the spare money. Quite on a contrary, in fact. :mrgreen:

[FreeShitOnly]

well one thing that's very important here is that all donations are voluntary, you don't have to give.  And he actually works on the site....but no I don't think it's necessarily right to make it your career, actually it doesn't sit that well with me, but then I look at friends of mine who do site support for a living and they are paid and they work on tons of sites(that usually have outside revenues and can afford them).  So in some way i guess this is the same thing, other than the fact that it's a free site and the money's gotta come from somewhere.  I don't know if the donations that delphy gets actually covers the monthly costs. It would be nice if he were a bit more open about everything.  Such as exactly how much it costs per month AND the amount he gets in donations, etc.......I know he mentions how much things are but it would be nice to see things broken down.

Aha!! You're on to something *see the bolded*... I look at something called "responsibility"... lets say I wanted to run and host a mega sims website and I started receiving donations from thousands of people...

Idea:  Why not, as you've suggested, have an area on MTS2 or InSIM for that matter that allows visitors and possible donators to see the expenses and total donations received... Kind of like your budget online...

I know this would possibly recruit even more people to donate considering they know exactly how their money is being spent as opposed to just the "word" of the site owner...

Example:

FreeShit Monthly Income/Expense Report:
(this could also be done quarterly to make it easier)
Feb 2007

Total Donations received as of 02/22/07 = $3312.22
Total reserves remaining after monthly host payment = $3110.19


Reserves:

*insert a breakdown of how reserves were spent this month*


Something along those lines .. you know.. shit like that :p

Sure that would take a lot of time.. but thats why you have staff ...
Just an idea, how bout an "accounting" staff member...

[FreeShitOnly]

Yeah, as an Aussie, I've paid like $350 -

Sims 2 - $80.00
University - $30
Nightlife - $30
OFB - $35
FFS - $30
GLS - $35
Pets - $40
PLUS - 2 of my CDs got scratched so I had to repurchase the damn things.  I've spent enough on this game - I don't need some fucknuckle telling me I gotta give them money for anything.

thats a lot of money...

Now add on a couple monthly subscriptions to that  

[Pineapplebrain]

Ya know Free, I think you just like to debate.  :wink:  

But I do get what you're saying. Perfectly valid concept to debate.

[FreeShitOnly]

Ya know Free, I think you just like to debate.  :wink:  

But I do get what you're saying. Perfectly valid concept to debate.

I am a masterdebator

[Captain Berg]

There used to be an expenses/incomes meter on MTS2 once upon a time, actually. Can't remember when it disappeared, though, perhaps someone here has a memory better than mine?

[FreeShitOnly]

There used to be an expenses/incomes meter on MTS2 once upon a time, actually. Can't remember when it disappeared, though, perhaps someone here has a memory better than mine?

Awww yes, Delphy was just discussing that on S2C and saying in so many words that paypal makes it difficult to do this.  But, with recorded transactions, one wouldnt necessarily have to do it daily.. it could be something thats done quarterly..

[Caedre]

I'd rather spend money on a stuff pack than CC, atleast the hairs by maxis are animated and don't have neckgaps. Plus the people at EA Games have studied and it's their job, not a hobby.

Luckily I havn't spend that much on my game compared to most people..

Base: Free, got it from EA Games
Uni: 35€ (that was a mistake, i forgot to preorder)
Nightlife: Free, got it from EA Games
OFB: 20€
Pets: 20€
Seasons: 20€

95€

[HideTheRum]

I see your point, but after thinking about it even more than I've been doing since the whole paysite issue was brought to attention, I still don't really care what Delphy or other freesite owners do with the money they get from the donations.

The point of being against paysites, I think, is largely a moral one, but it is so because it derives from a legal observation: having people pay for something you're not allowed to sell in first place is not legal. Maxis is the one entitled to mind about it from a legal point of view, and they may decide not to mind at all, we on the other hand are the ones entitled to mind about it from a moral point of view, but our minding about it has a reason to be and is so strong because it directly comes from the fact the selling CC stuff is not legal.

Gah, am I even making sense?? while the toughts form in my head in Italian I assure you I am :lol:

What I mean is, I completely support and am interested in the issue of being against paysites only as long as it has a legally relevant reasoning behind it. Otherwise, I'm not interested in the sheer moral issue of what should or should not be done generally speaking by the freesite owners. As long as someone offers 100% free cc content on their site, leaving it up to people to decide whether or not to donate and knowning that donating won't gain them any "special gift", that's perfectly fine with me even if the owners in the end get so much money to sustain their site and live off it. Because while that might sound not moral, yet it doesn't infringe any law, and specifically any of the rules made by Maxis. I guess that's the only confining line I'm willing to consider :wink:

[liegenschonheit]

Yeah, I think thats the fundamental difference between pay and free site donations. If people force us to pay for their stuff, then we expect that the items we receive be of decently good quality and that they keep their shit together enough to keep their site open. By "decently good quality"' I of course mean NO GODDAMNED HOLES IN THE GODDAMNED NECK! Seriously, how hard is it for these people to snap together a few vertices? They seem to be meshing hairstyles of great intricacy, but a few unjoined vertices outsmart them. Bleh.

If, on the other hand, a site is free and accepts donations, then I don't bitch. If their stuff is of bad quality, I look at it, chuck it, and don't donate. Simple as that. If it is pretty good and I feel like helping out, then great. I would like to think most of that money goes to fund the site, but if they are buying catfood or getting their nails done, I don't really care. If the site goes down after I've donated due to "lack of funds", I'd probably be pretty suspicious and poke around at it, but as long as everything seems kosher, no big deal.