For Lyriclee

[ElmoLovesCyclops]

The Pescado site is hurting a lot of people and making a lot of people happy at the same time. Soon there will be a backlash and creators (all our favourites) will just stop creating.

If you're a creator, you should create because you enjoy creating, not because you expect to get something back from it.

People do create because they enjoy creating. Not everyone is stupid enough to do something they don't enjoy just to make money. Many small businesses are started from a hobby turning into a business. Why could this not be exactly the same. I do believe that creators that have no free section are purely in it for the money but what about paysites that do have a free section and offer other services as well.

[BlueSoup]

The problem with that, Elmo, is that it is not legal for these paysite owners to charge for content.  They do not have ownership rights.  Especially the photoskinners, who most certainly do not own the rights to the photo they're using.

They can sell time on their website, and some can pay, but then they can't bitch about others sharing it, since they're not costing the site owner bandwidth or anything.

[ElmoLovesCyclops]

- In regards to the moderators on S2C and MTS2 i don't think people quite realise how much shit they have to put up with. They are using their own free time to keep a website (which you gotta admit we all love) free and running.

Well, I wouldn't say we *ALL* love it. Some of us are banned from it, others of us have a certain bemused tolerance for it, others not-so-bemused, and some of us simply avoid the place.

Well all i can say is you're obviously banned for a reason. I've done things wrong on there before and got warnings but if you're a total fuckwit on there you're going to get banned. Yes i know some moderators probably are dickheads who are greedy for power and ban people on a personal basis but i don't think any more of them than i do of the idiots who did something stupid enough to get themselves banned.

They have hundreds of complaints from whingey little 14 year olds every day and quite often are forced to deal with some of the most unintelligent shit you've ever heard. I know i would definately get frustrated after awhile if i had hundreds of people a week come to me with their internet dilemmas just because they can't find the maturity to deal with it themselves.

That is partly a product of atmosphere they cultivate, and frankly they have no one to blame for that but themselves. Me, I find that whiny 12 year olds are best dealt with with a quick and direct outpouring of bile for daring to disturb you with their idiotic whining. This discourages them from bothering you again and is ultimately better for them. They may as well learn that in real life, their problems are theirs and no one else's.

What makes you say Moderators aren't dealing with 12 year olds that way? It's the 42 year olds acting like 12 year olds that really shit moderators up the wall. There is so much high school bullshit happening in the general sims 2 community (including here) and it'd be really nice for everyone if we could all just fucking grow up. Also i'm  not quite sure how much of an atmosphere you can create over the internet. Different people interpret things differently. Some people love the moderators and love the atmosphere over there and obviously some people hate it. The people that hate it are usually the people who have not followed the rules and have been warned or banned for it.

I do think a few of the moderators over there should step down. Yes they have done good things and bad things but i can just see them being mature enough to let the fire die down before i can see any of the people who aren't moderators doing that.

I do also agree that it is quite often that people don't like a mod because they don't like them on a personal level. Moderators often discuss situations with other moderators before making any decisions. Try being in a moderating position yourself before you judge other moderators so harshly.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. LyricLee is not a good moderator. She is not objective, acts upon irrelevant offsite personal issues, and does not consider her actions tactically.

Like i said i was talking in general about Moderators, trying to give the people who haven't moderated before a perspective on the situation. I also said i didn't know the full extent of LyricLee's bad moderating. If what you guys say about her is true then i completely agree that she shouldn't be a moderator.

Paying for a membership of a paysite is a personal choice. You are not being forced to pay for it. The people creating their content don't have to make those files available to you. They could keep it for their own personal use.

And having bought it, it is then up to them to decide what to do with it, no? I go to a store, I buy something, it's mine now. If I want to give it away, I can do that.

Copyright, you say? Well, there's the unfortunate problem that no one really knows who legally owns it, if anyone. That means the only thing we really have is dealing with it as a commodity. EA's EULA claims ownership of all the materials, but EULAe haven't been found legally binding. Paysites themselves swipe meshes and textures off other sites and photographs. Who really owns anything? Hard to say. Certainly no one wants to fight it out on court, and certainly no one can come up with a conclusive judgement recognized by all countries around the world, such as the one this site operates in.

I think if certain important people in the community (for instance the paysite owners and yourself, maybe also moderators) could sit down and discuss the situation privately and maturely then we could come to some kind of conclusive judgement. All of those people are in positions of power in the sims 2 community where they could enforce it.

Granted many paysites do charge outrageous prices, but some of them are worth paying for. Creators put in a hell of a lot of time, work and effort into creating these, why shouldn't they get some compensation?

Who says they don't? Someone had to buy the item. There's your compensation right there.

Right now only one person has to buy it and it's up for free. For instance you pay for one month membership to Peggy which is $9.95 and every single other person in the world gets it for free. Wow. Ten dollars is huge compensation for days of work. Obviously creators like that are in it for the money to a certain extent but they wouldn't do it if they didn't enjoy it and if they were only in it for the money they wouldn't have a free section.

I do think that saying they charge those prices for bandwidth is a pathetic excuse as we're not all stupid enough to believe it. If it was for bandwidth they'd be doing something along the lines of what Nouk does on her site, where a certain amount that is needed for something is put up and people can freely donate.

And people do, yes? Clearly it's a model that works. Notice how no one really objects to Nouk doing that. The donations are not tied to the items at all.

Yep. Thanks for repeating my point.

However creators are doing this because they need the money. The money they make from it is what they live off. Which i think is a perfectly reasonable reason.

Well, sure, it seems like a reasonable reason, but not necessarily one we agree with. Everyone needs money to live off of, but you're certainly not entitled to money from the sky, after all.

What makes this money from the sky? The people at EA Games get paid for it, why can't creators?

he Pescado site is hurting a lot of people and making a lot of people happy at the same time. Soon there will be a backlash and creators (all our favourites) will just stop creating.

And give up the precious money they need to live off of? I don't see that happening. So long as they're making a profit, and I don't see them going into the red anytime soon, they're going to keep doing it if it's really an economic decision. That, or they're going to stop and get a real freaking job.

Firstly, what makes that not a real job? Web design is a real job. 3D programming is a real job. Clearly this could be classified as a real job too.

Why the hell wouldn't they go into the red when just like i said before it only takes one person to pay a small amount of money before it's free for everyone here. No one is going to pay for a membership when they could have it for free here.

Honestly, i like that i can get all of those files for free but i also care about the people who are trying to make a living from it. I don't care whether it's legal or not. Probably because i think it should be legal. I'm actually quite disgusted at all of the people who are being so disprespectful and downright rude to creators.

Well, part of an even older tradition is that one does not charge for third-party game modifications. These creators ignore this ancient tradition, and then expect us to respect their traditions when they themselves ignore even older ones? Not gonna happen.

Just wondering where these 'traditions' are carved into stone?

If we're going to share their files, at least do it privately so we're not being a bunch of cunts and shoving it in their faces.

Well, yeah, that's the approach that other sites use. I, however, am not called a "Fat Obstreperous Jerk" for no reason. I am obstreperous. I am loud and in your face. And I'm a jerk. So this is why I have chosen to run my site in such a fashion. Enjoy the free swag, or not. After all, no one puts a gun to your head and makes you download.

So yeah, that's basically why it works. That's my personal philosophy, and I'm going to stick to it. Unlike certain hypocrites we could name.

I admire that you can at least admit to being a jerk. Not often i find someone else who can admit their own faults. Whether we download it or not is not the point. The point is that the files are there in the first place.

[ElmoLovesCyclops]

The problem with that, Elmo, is that it is not legal for these paysite owners to charge for content.  They do not have ownership rights.  Especially the photoskinners, who most certainly do not own the rights to the photo they're using.

They can sell time on their website, and some can pay, but then they can't bitch about others sharing it, since they're not costing the site owner bandwidth or anything.

Well i'm not sure about the legalities of things yet as i haven't read into it. Although i plan to. What would you all say about creators charging for the content if they did have ownership rights and they did have rights to the photos they were using? Then would it be ok or still no.

[Lackey]

Try being in a moderating position yourself before you judge other moderators so harshly. Also remember...lyric may have gone wrong in some ways (i'm not fully aware of the dispute) but i'm trying to give you a basic understanding of the moderators position so you can have some empathy.

First, if I was a moderator I would hope that I would have enough class not to be a total bitch to everyone based solely on an assumption of what I feel is right.

Second, Lyric MAY have, I have seen rabid dogs more tame then her.

Third, Maybe if she would shit can some of that attitude of her's and at least try to be civil to people, there would not be an ever growing thread about her.

Fourth, If we are so wrong about the crazy, wild eyed boar then why has she not taken the time to come here and answer for herself.

Fifth, Maybe if sites kept it to bandwidth and stopped trying to financial rape everyone that breathes, a site like this would not be needed.

Sixth, and this is just my own personal thing here. I am so sick of the bleeding hearts, they need the money, they work hard, they spend all their time , SHIT, that I just want to bitch slap the next one that says it.
If they are so over worked and under appreciated then why dont they just QUIT doing it.
There are many, and I do mean MANY creators out there that have free sites and only rely on the kindness of others to make it work.

Seventh, They cant afford bandwidth? Fine, post your stuff on a free site like MTS2, or put it on TSR, they will even pay them. Why does every single Joe Blow have to open their own paysite? MONEY MONEY MONEY
Get it?

[bollocks]

I just finished reading that whole dramafest thing.
I can't understand why a person like her still has fandogs drooling over her every word. "Yes, LyricLee! You're so right! You're so talented! Whee~!" Ick. They disgust me.
On the same note, I found much amusement in the fact that she kept fighting an argument, seemingly by herself. People would be talking about something different, and she'd say something inane that was completely ridiculous and not valid, and her fandogs would foam at the mouth, and she'd swear... Gah. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

[fourohfourerror]

Lackey, if you don't mind me asking, why did you get banned from there?  Obviously you don't need to "steal" because you sub to many sites per month, and you were never as rude as Lyric in your replies.

[Aquamarine]

MTS2 seems successful and unkilled, and LyricLee seems to at least manage to restrain her outbursts to the much smaller live chat and largely off-topic S2C subsite, at any rate. And who doesn't dodge reality? We're here because we play video games. Is that not a reality dodge right there? Because let's face it, reality is overrated.

Oh, I have no doubts MTS2 will be around for a rather long time, but I was saying I've seen this phenomenon be the primary cause of death to various sites.

And "reality dodge" to a point. Becoming active in an online community means involving oneself with real people and their associated issues. The 'reality' I was referring to is a situation in which one/several people in a group cause problems for the whole - in this case, LL's behavior isn't good for the S2C's name and has to be irritating to the rest of the moderating team because of collective blame. The 'dodge' is the fact that Delphy seems to feel this is acceptable and productive in some way. I hope that made more sense. I'm not good at expressing things like this. : /

Edit: Actually, the first post by "nectere" (I think) demonstrates how I feel about this.

Edit 2: in the dramafest document thingy.

I personally find the idea of children starving to death amusing. It always gives me a chuckle to imagine some paysite owner's screaming spawn starving to death from the loss in revenue I might be causing. That just makes me feel all tingly inside, and would make me sleep like a baby if I actually did that entire "sleep" thing, but frankly, I hate sleep, so I don't.

Can't agree with you there. I love sleep. : P

[Lackey]

Lackey, if you don't mind me asking, why did you get banned from there?  Obviously you don't need to "steal" because you sub to many sites per month, and you were never as rude as Lyric in your replies.

I got banned because I was winning. She thought all of her little buddies would come to her rescue and instead she got attacked. I got banned because that is what they do. They are freely allowed to call people names and swear like a sailor but members are not allowed the same privileges. I told Lyric she thinks she is better than everyone else(true) I told her she walks around with her nose in the air(true) Then I said I hoped a bird would come along and shit in her mouth so she would be forced to look at people at eye level(true)

Well all i can say is you're obviously banned for a reason. I've done things wrong on there before and got warnings but if you're a total fuckwit on there you're going to get banned. Yes i know some moderators probably are dickheads who are greedy for power and ban people on a personal basis but i don't think any more of them than i do of the idiots who did something stupid enough to get themselves banned.

Obviously it could not be Lyriclee's fault? Maybe you are allowed to make mistakes because you are a brown noser? I see you have been taking lessons from Lyric how to talk out of both sides of your mouth at the same time. May I suggest you re-read what that says?

Firstly, what makes that not a real job? Web design is a real job. 3D programming is a real job. Clearly this could be classified as a real job too.

Most drug dealers would claim they have a real job too. Doesnt make it legal.

No one is going to pay for a membership when they could have it for free here.

At least you understand the purpose.

What makes this money from the sky? The people at EA Games get paid for it, why can't creators?

Because it is legal for them and not for the creators.

I think if certain important people in the community (for instance the paysite owners and yourself, maybe also moderators) could sit down and discuss the situation privately and maturely then we could come to some kind of conclusive judgement. All of those people are in positions of power in the sims 2 community where they could enforce it.

Are you a judge? Positions of Power? Enforce it? Have you gone mad? Are you planning to go to every single computer and stop all of this? Try different words those are to big for you.

Like i said i was talking in general about Moderators, trying to give the people who haven't moderated before a perspective on the situation. I also said i didn't know the full extent of LyricLee's bad moderating. If what you guys say about her is true then i completely agree that she shouldn't be a moderator.

We already know this. Try telling the other this.

There is so much high school bullshit happening in the general sims 2 community (including here) and it'd be really nice for everyone if we could all just fucking grow up. Also i'm not quite sure how much of an atmosphere you can create over the internet. Different people interpret things differently. Some people love the moderators and love the atmosphere over there and obviously some people hate it. The people that hate it are usually the people who have not followed the rules and have been warned or banned for it.

I will consider your position when you have enough balls to say this to Lyriclee. Makes me wonder just how many benes you get for coming here and being her body guard. At least you wont get banned. I love a good debate. To bad Lyriclee is to chicken shit to fight her own battles. I have no ban button here. This is neutral turf but she wont come here. Why? Because she is wrong and she knows it. My question is--If she wont defend herself then why are you doing it. Further more--No one held a gun to your head and made you come here.

How many files have you downloaded?

[Buttpickle]

Okay, Lackey wasn't rude (man Dramafest '06 makes good Friday night reading for those stuck at home), but he/she was poking a bit with a big pokey stick.

But don't get me wrong, Lackey was asking good questions. So good for Lackey. Holy shit, that shit was a mess. LyricLee needs to take some time off, I think. She seems really tightly wound.

ETA: Alright, I missed the bird shit thing. But I still say that Lackey was asking good questions. Props.

[Enelar]

What makes this money from the sky? The people at EA Games get paid for it, why can't creators?

Maybe because they don't own the rights to The Sims 2 and can't legally profit from things created to work with it?

Hey I know, I write Kingdom Hearts fan stories. I'll self publish them and charge people $10 per chapter to read without crediting Disney or Square-Enix and without their expressed approval to profit from their works. After all I deserve to profit from something I choose to do of my own free will and for my own enjoyment with someone else's copyrighted creations. I should be compensated for time I freely spend and happily devote to my hobby. So.. given that situation, how long do you think it'll take Disney and Square-Enix to shut my ass down for copyright infringement and drag me to court, hmn?

Bull-fucking-shit. I spent ten years writing a fan-novel because I wanted to. I don't deserve to magically be showered with cash in compensation for my lost time, it was time I freely sacrificed for something I wanted to do. It's like asking for compensation for playing golf or watching football or playing with your kids on a weekend. Those aren't jobs.

Someday I MIGHT make money from my writing ability.. but it will be because I created my own fiction and sold it. If the sim creators want to profit from this like they would from a job, create your own damn game and sell it.

[Silvercoin]

You know, I used to think LyricLee was a teenager. She acts very similar to some of the fifteen-year-olds I've met. I was surprised when it was mentioned that she has children. Are you sure she's an adult, and not just lying because it's the internet and she can? I don't mean that as an insult, either. I'm honestly curious.

Then I said I hoped a bird would come along and shit in her mouth so she would be forced to look at people at eye level

That's just a wee bit gross. It must have taken balls of steel and a damn good proxy in order to say that to ban-happy Lyric, though I doubt she's the only moderator who would want to ban you for that comment.

On a side note, just how much bandwidth do you guys have? Don't feel threatened at all by another creator ambush?  :wink: Although I doubt they would try it again; there are an awful lot of large-ish files, and their internet would probably die before the bandwidth did. Or am I the only one with limited usage?

[ElmoLovesCyclops]

Lackey, if you don't mind me asking, why did you get banned from there?  Obviously you don't need to "steal" because you sub to many sites per month, and you were never as rude as Lyric in your replies.

I got banned because I was winning. She thought all of her little buddies would come to her rescue and instead she got attacked. I got banned because that is what they do. They are freely allowed to call people names and swear like a sailor but members are not allowed the same privileges. I told Lyric she thinks she is better than everyone else(true) I told her she walks around with her nose in the air(true) Then I said I hoped a bird would come along and shit in her mouth so she would be forced to look at people at eye level(true)

Well all i can say is you're obviously banned for a reason. I've done things wrong on there before and got warnings but if you're a total fuckwit on there you're going to get banned. Yes i know some moderators probably are dickheads who are greedy for power and ban people on a personal basis but i don't think any more of them than i do of the idiots who did something stupid enough to get themselves banned.

Obviously it could not be Lyriclee's fault? Maybe you are allowed to make mistakes because you are a brown noser? I see you have been taking lessons from Lyric how to talk out of both sides of your mouth at the same time. May I suggest you re-read what that says?

Firstly, what makes that not a real job? Web design is a real job. 3D programming is a real job. Clearly this could be classified as a real job too.

Most drug dealers would claim they have a real job too. Doesnt make it legal.

No one is going to pay for a membership when they could have it for free here.

At least you understand the purpose.

What makes this money from the sky? The people at EA Games get paid for it, why can't creators?

Because it is legal for them and not for the creators.

I think if certain important people in the community (for instance the paysite owners and yourself, maybe also moderators) could sit down and discuss the situation privately and maturely then we could come to some kind of conclusive judgement. All of those people are in positions of power in the sims 2 community where they could enforce it.

Are you a judge? Positions of Power? Enforce it? Have you gone mad? Are you planning to go to every single computer and stop all of this? Try different words those are to big for you.

Like i said i was talking in general about Moderators, trying to give the people who haven't moderated before a perspective on the situation. I also said i didn't know the full extent of LyricLee's bad moderating. If what you guys say about her is true then i completely agree that she shouldn't be a moderator.

We already know this. Try telling the other this.

There is so much high school bullshit happening in the general sims 2 community (including here) and it'd be really nice for everyone if we could all just fucking grow up. Also i'm not quite sure how much of an atmosphere you can create over the internet. Different people interpret things differently. Some people love the moderators and love the atmosphere over there and obviously some people hate it. The people that hate it are usually the people who have not followed the rules and have been warned or banned for it.

I will consider your position when you have enough balls to say this to Lyriclee. Makes me wonder just how many benes you get for coming here and being her body guard. At least you wont get banned. I love a good debate. To bad Lyriclee is to chicken shit to fight her own battles. I have no ban button here. This is neutral turf but she wont come here. Why? Because she is wrong and she knows it. My question is--If she wont defend herself then why are you doing it. Further more--No one held a gun to your head and made you come here.

How many files have you downloaded?

Ok all i want to say to this is i don't know Lyric, i've never talked to her, through as much as i know of her i don't like her and i haven't been sent by her.

Secondly you're a fucking idiot because if you had read what i'd said properly i have mentioned that i am not defending Lyric as i don't know the full situation with her and i'm sure what you are all saying about her is probably true. I'm just trying to let you know what it's like to be a moderator as you are attacking ALL the moderators at S2C not just Lyric. Get it. No? Fuck off then.

[ElmoLovesCyclops]

How many files have you downloaded?

Yet again if you had read what i've said properly i said that i downloaded files. I'm not a liar. Of coarse i'm going to download them if i can have them for free rather than pay for them. However i still think it's immature that all this shit is even happening in the first place. You will probably say if you're against it then don't download it but me not downloading isn't going to stop it. One person protesting isn't going to make you shut down the site and have an open mind to other people's feelings. Most of you are stuck to your opinions and unwilling to consider anyone elses. Which is part of the reason why this is all fucked in the first place and no one can come to a conclusive judgement.

As for you asking if i've gone mad. No i haven't. No i'm not going to go around to everyone's computers and stop this. I know it's still going to happen behind the scenes i just think it's rude to shove it in their faces. As for enforcing rules, that's what moderators do and paysite owners can put them in place but clearly we're not going to physically go to people's houses and delete files. You're an idiot for even thinking that i would be that stupid.

[Pescado]

And "reality dodge" to a point. Becoming active in an online community means involving oneself with real people and their associated issues.

I prefer to mock their pathetic issues and tell them to quit whining, personally. Because people whine too much.

On a side note, just how much bandwidth do you guys have? Don't feel threatened at all by another creator ambush?  :wink:

Unlimited. So no. They can download until their hard drives explode, and we'll just sit here and laugh at them.