I smell bullshit

[neriana]

TSR has a terrible setup. Want a recolor for something, click 5 million times. Everything is double-zipped. The names of everything are jumbled. It's not "convenient" at all, it's a mess.

[babajayne]

So I was wondering... could you design, build, maintain, staff, and run a site like TSR for free?  Because that would be amazing.  I'd love to see you do it, Pescado.  Your generosity has always been something to admire.  (I'm not being sarcastic... I love your work)

You think making a site like that is easy?  PROVE IT.  If you turned this site into something people could actually USE with the features TSR has, then you'd really have something over it.

Erm, MTS 2 already does all that with a vastly superior search function and no half-naked sleazy date service ads.

I don't see how it's vastly superior, but that's open to opinion.  They've perhaps found a more thrifty way of running a website.  They don't steal TSR content, however.  This website does, and does not even bother posting a picture of it.  That's abusing TSR.

So sure, charge for all the extras if you want and if people want those extras, I'm sure they'll pay for them. But how can you say they have the right to charge for actual custom content? The download wizard is bs anyway, MTS provides much the same features and convenience as TSR and is completely free.

TSR is just marketing their best stuff to make people want to subscribe.  That is commerce.  They are still providing a service other than the content itself.

[idtaminger]

To me, this isn't an issue of selling custom content at all.  This is selling a database.  And paysites have every right to charge for it if they put up a good website.

They don't steal TSR content, however.  This website does, and does not even bother posting a picture of it.  That's abusing TSR.

Huh? I thought they weren't selling their content? Make up your mind will you?

[...]

So I was wondering... could you design, build, maintain, staff, and run a site like TSR for free?  Because that would be amazing.  I'd love to see you do it, Pescado.  Your generosity has always been something to admire.  (I'm not being sarcastic... I love your work)

You think making a site like that is easy?  PROVE IT.  If you turned this site into something people could actually USE with the features TSR has, then you'd really have something over it.

Yeah, I volunteered at one. It's called Elfwood now, google it. Different content, but similar structures. but it was designed by a college student in his spare time, built by him and his friends, maintained and staffed by volunteers, and has been since 1996.

And for all it's a genre art community, somehow has LESS drama than this one. I'm sure I've mentioned before how much that astounds me.

[BlueSoup]

I don't see how it's vastly superior, but that's open to opinion.  They've perhaps found a more thrifty way of running a website.  They don't steal TSR content, however.  This website does, and does not even bother posting a picture of it.  That's abusing TSR.

Oh for jeez sake.

Do you really think TSR isn't making any money and is getting what they spend on the site?  Get freakin' real.

MTS2 is vastly superior, not in the least of which it's being completely FREE!

[jesserocket]

I'm a little confused. As far as I know, this place isn't trying to become like, the new TSR, or compete with it as such, BlueSoup has merely offered an alternative....And once more, no-one's stolen anything from TSR..

[babajayne]

I don't see how it's vastly superior, but that's open to opinion.  They've perhaps found a more thrifty way of running a website.  They don't steal TSR content, however.  This website does, and does not even bother posting a picture of it.  That's abusing TSR.

Oh for jeez sake.

Do you really think TSR isn't making any money and is getting what they spend on the site?  Get freakin' real.

I never said that.  Why do you care if they make money?  Even if their content "should be free", should their labor be free, too?

[Pariland]

I don't see how it's vastly superior, but that's open to opinion.  They've perhaps found a more thrifty way of running a website.  They don't steal TSR content, however.  This website does, and does not even bother posting a picture of it.  That's abusing TSR.

Oh for jeez sake.

Do you really think TSR isn't making any money and is getting what they spend on the site?  Get freakin' real.

I never said that.  Why do you care if they make money?  Even if their content "should be free", should their labor be free, too?

Why do you care if they don't make money?

Their labor is voluntary since it is based on the implied agreement that they can only accpet donations (re: not charge for them) to cover bandwidth.

Nobody is making them take something that is not really all theirs to begin with and change it a little bit so they can claim exclusive rights.

[jesserocket]

I don't see how it's vastly superior, but that's open to opinion.  They've perhaps found a more thrifty way of running a website.  They don't steal TSR content, however.  This website does, and does not even bother posting a picture of it.  That's abusing TSR.

Oh for jeez sake.

Do you really think TSR isn't making any money and is getting what they spend on the site?  Get freakin' real.

I never said that.  Why do you care if they make money?  Even if their content "should be free", should their labor be free, too?

Yes. Because they're doing this out of choice, there's no right there for payment..

[lordrichter]

Yes. Because they're doing this out of choice, there's no right there for payment..

Eh? I'm not following this line of thinking...

If we are forced to do it, we get to charge, but if we choose to do it, we have to do it for free?

[tIIsuggas]

According to this interview.  Steve Bonham set up TSR to share with the community.

Well, he went back on his word, he aint sharin' no more.  He chose to make TSR for the community, for the community spirit, (if I read the interview correctly).

TSR used to have free rotation of all content,  people paid subs to gain better site access, no ads, the download wizard/basket, etc.

Now FA content is held to ransom.

[babajayne]

According to this interview.  Steve Bonham set up TSR to share with the community.

Well, he went back on his word, he aint sharin' no more.  He chose to make TSR for the community, for the community spirit, (if I read the interview correctly).

TSR used to have free rotation of all content,  people paid subs to gain better site access, no ads, the download wizard/basket, etc.

Now FA content is held to ransom.

In other words, it started as a very small site.  Then it grew a lot bigger and more complicated.  How dare they?!

I don't see how it's vastly superior, but that's open to opinion.  They've perhaps found a more thrifty way of running a website.  They don't steal TSR content, however.  This website does, and does not even bother posting a picture of it.  That's abusing TSR.

Oh for jeez sake.

Do you really think TSR isn't making any money and is getting what they spend on the site?  Get freakin' real.

I never said that.  Why do you care if they make money?  Even if their content "should be free", should their labor be free, too?

Why do you care if they don't make money?

Their labor is voluntary since it is based on the implied agreement that they can only accpet donations (re: not charge for them) to cover bandwidth.

Nobody is making them take something that is not really all theirs to begin with and change it a little bit so they can claim exclusive rights.

"implied agreement"?  I smell bullshit. :roll:

[AnneBonny]

I smell bullshit. :roll:

Do tell. It's spewing forth from your mouth a mile a minute. Is TSR being threatened by The Site That Must Not Be Named? Will your 'job' be taken away if TSR ceases to bring in more customers? Is that why you are here "Miss Invisible" of TSR fuming and foaming to get into Tom's good graces to finally become noticed? How charming.  

[jfade]

Will your 'job' be taken away if TSR ceases to bring in more customers? Is that why you are here "Miss Invisible" of TSR fuming and foaming to get into Tom's good graces to finally become noticed? How charming.  

Just wanted to point out that all the mods "work" on a completely voluntary basis. It's not a "job" really.

*Goes back to lurking.*

[tIIsuggas]

In other words, it started as a very small site.  Then it grew a lot bigger and more complicated.  How dare they?!

Because some people are stupid (me included), and don't do their homework.  We allowed it to happen.  

I don't think for one minute that EA will put an end to this debate.  It will take the community to decide.

As I have stated before, though.  New players do not know about these issues, they stumble upon TSR when they google for info, fall into the trap of paying for something for lack of more information.

That is why these debates need to stay prominent in the community, so people can make informed choices.