Holy Simoly is being run by a MONKEY!

[AW]

Yes, Dee.  Think of it as charity vs. Walmart.  Maybe a quirky example, but donations to help a site that you love and that allows all simmers to download whether that downloader can afford to donate or not is not a target.  IF you have to give money to get it, it's a paysite.

[slickchick]

as a sims newbie i need some clarity. so can you guys clear this up for me without being mean?

i'm not 100% anti-pay/donation site. as the former owner of a wildly popular website (not sims related) i know how expensive bandwidth can be. i had several hosts shut me down because of bandwidth overages. and i wasn't storing large files for download, nor was the site graphic heavy. i ultimately had to get a 2 server load balance solution which cost me $900+ p/month. so with that said i know bandwidth costs are very real.

also, i don't see the harm in talented artists getting paid for their efforts. i've seen a lot of comments about people finding "real jobs," etc. imo the best job is one u have a passion for and love. i consider myself artistic, relatively computer literate and with a lot of time and practice i could probably learn to recolor, create meshes, etc. but it's not something everybody can do. from the tutorials i've read i assume a lot of time goes into making hacks and objects, especially new meshes. or is it not as time consuming as i assume?

are u guys defending EA's copywrite? because i don't think EA really cares about their customers or profit modders. the modders keep people interested in the game and allows ea to provide us with the bare minimum.

are u defending the fans that can't afford cc from paysites? i'd probably have a different attitude if i was 14 and couldn't afford it.

don't get me wrong. i love this site. and i prefer the freebies. i'm just curious about the vehemence of some of your views regarding pay sites. i'm asking this in relation to sites with HIGH QUALITY items. this post is not in support of peggy or the meat slab dress. please don't crucify me. i'm not a techie and new to the sims community, so i just want to understand since the mission statement was a little vague.

[tgriffy]

as a sims newbie i need some clarity. so can you guys clear this up for me without being mean?

i'm not 100% anti-pay/donation site. as the former owner of a wildly popular website (not sims related) i know how expensive bandwidth can be. i had several hosts shut me down because of bandwidth overages. and i wasn't storing large files for download, nor was the site graphic heavy. i ultimately had to get a 2 server load balance solution which cost me $900+ p/month. so with that said i know bandwidth costs are very real.

also, i don't see the harm in talented artists getting paid for their efforts. i've seen a lot of comments about people finding "real jobs," etc. imo the best job is one u have a passion for and love. i consider myself artistic, relatively computer literate and with a lot of time and practice i could probably learn to recolor, create meshes, etc. but it's not something everybody can do. from the tutorials i've read i assume a lot of time goes into making hacks and objects, especially new meshes. or is it not as time consuming as i assume?

are u guys defending EA's copywrite? because i don't think EA really cares about their customers or profit modders. the modders keep people interested in the game and allows ea to provide us with the bare minimum.

are u defending the fans that can't afford cc from paysites? i'd probably have a different attitude if i was 14 and couldn't afford it.

don't get me wrong. i love this site. and i prefer the freebies. i'm just curious about the vehemence of some of your views regarding pay sites. i'm asking this in relation to sites with HIGH QUALITY items. this post is not in support of peggy or the meat slab dress. please don't crucify me. i'm not a techie and new to the sims community, so i just want to understand since the mission statement was a little vague.

You're probably going to find a wide range of answers to your questions.  You will find those who regret having certain sites' items in the bounty, mostly because they are high quality and the creators otherwise participate in the community.  This site is anti-paysite, not necessarily anti-creator (Atwa, Peggy, and Rose being the major exceptions).  That is a consequence of having a zero tolerance policy toward paysites.  If you've been lurking around enough (and shame on you if you haven't!), you'll find plenty of posts discussing the reasons for the zero tolerance policy.

There are a number of ways paysites harm the Sims community.  See Hecubus' Money Better Spent site for a full listing of the arguments.

The legal arguments made from the EULA may indeed give the impression we are defending EA's copyright.  You'll also find plenty of posts regretting EA's lack of action on the issue.  However, the reasons we are here vary by each individual.  For example, in my case, I couldn't give a rat's ass about EA's copyright.  Is EA losing something because of paysites?  The poor babies!  That's my attitude at least.

As I read the mission statement, one of the main things we are trying to do is defend fans that can't afford the CC.  One of the harms to the community paysites do is split the community into haves and have-nots.  Personally, I also think it has a lot to do with Pandora selling Pescado's mods without his permission, so there is a little revenge there going on too.  In my case, Socialist that I am, I just get some kicks tweaking with businesses to begin with.

I hope this makes things a little clearer than mud for you.  Please lurk moar and ask moar questions.

Tim

[Hecubus]

as a sims newbie i need some clarity. so can you guys clear this up for me without being mean?

Happy to try.

i'm not 100% anti-pay/donation site. as the former owner of a wildly popular website (not sims related) i know how expensive bandwidth can be. i had several hosts shut me down because of bandwidth overages. and i wasn't storing large files for download, nor was the site graphic heavy. i ultimately had to get a 2 server load balance solution which cost me $900+ p/month. so with that said i know bandwidth costs are very real.

Agreed. Bandwidth can be expensive. Which is why we don't mind supporting sites like Parsimonious and MTS2, but also why we encourage site owners to find free web hosting (which exists all over).

also, i don't see the harm in talented artists getting paid for their efforts. i've seen a lot of comments about people finding "real jobs," etc. imo the best job is one u have a passion for and love. i consider myself artistic, relatively computer literate and with a lot of time and practice i could probably learn to recolor, create meshes, etc. but it's not something everybody can do. from the tutorials i've read i assume a lot of time goes into making hacks and objects, especially new meshes. or is it not as time consuming as i assume?

It's not about time or talent. It's about a very clear statement in the EULA which makes selling user created content a breach of contract. Just as gaming is a hobby, so should creating custom content be. Some of the most talented creators in teh community - Judie at AAS, Nouk, Numenor, HP, Pescado - are all happily free. And in accordance with EA's EULA.

are u guys defending EA's copywrite? because i don't think EA really cares about their customers or profit modders. the modders keep people interested in the game and allows ea to provide us with the bare minimum.

They absolutely DO care. They don't want people to make money off them...they're a corporation after all. THAT is why they're very clear in their EULA about 'non-commercial' being the only kind of site content can be shared on.

are u defending the fans that can't afford cc from paysites? i'd probably have a different attitude if i was 14 and couldn't afford it.

That too.

There's not just the legal argument, there is also the ethical argument. Please see this page of my site for several good explanations.

don't get me wrong. i love this site. and i prefer the freebies. i'm just curious about the vehemence of some of your views regarding pay sites. i'm asking this in relation to sites with HIGH QUALITY items. this post is not in support of peggy or the meat slab dress. please don't crucify me. i'm not a techie and new to the sims community, so i just want to understand since the mission statement was a little vague.

I can see why the front page mission statement might seem vague. Read this for a more delineated statement.

[slickchick]

If you've been lurking around enough (and shame on you if you haven't!), you'll find plenty of posts discussing the reasons for the zero tolerance policy.

i've been here THREE days - counting today (i think - gotta check the date). DAY ONE - i read the links at the bottom of the home page, the rules, browsed thru 1 or 2 threads and started downloading downloading and more downloading.    DAY TWO - more downloading, and cross referencing files to clean up paysite crap i didn't want. DAY THREE (today) i'm trying to incorporate myself into this community and get to know u guys.  

There are a number of ways paysites harm the Sims community.  See Hecubus' Money Better Spent site for a full listing of the arguments.

will do. after posting this thread i came across this: http://sims2-snapshots.livejournal.com/8269.html.

For example, in my case, I couldn't give a rat's ass about EA's copyright.  Is EA losing something because of paysites?  The poor babies!  That's my attitude at least.

i agree. as far as i'm concerned EA profits from everybody - customers, free AND pay modders.

One of the harms to the community paysites do is split the community into haves and have-nots.

But isn't that life in general?

Personally, I also think it has a lot to do with Pandora selling Pescado's mods without his permission, so there is a little revenge there going on too.

i saw that mess for the first time yesterday and i couldn't believe it! and i didn't even find out from the forum. i was going thru the booty checking out each site (many of which i wasn't aware of). i went to pandora and i'm like "wait a minute? what the hell???" couldn't believe it...

In my case, Socialist that I am, I just get some kicks tweaking with businesses to begin with.

mmm hmm - somehow i think this is primary motivation. ROFLMAO. but your tweaking is my gain sweetie and i'm not mad at you.

I hope this makes things a little clearer than mud for you.  Please lurk moar and ask moar questions.

i most certainly will. thanks for answering me respectfully. i was expecting to have my head handed to me on a stick after my first thread.

[tgriffy]

One of the harms to the community paysites do is split the community into haves and have-nots.

But isn't that life in general?

True enough.  One of the reasons I'm a Socialist, in fact . . .

In my case, Socialist that I am, I just get some kicks tweaking with businesses to begin with.

mmm hmm - somehow i think this is primary motivation. ROFLMAO. but your tweaking is my gain sweetie and i'm not mad at you.

As I said, everybody has their own motivations for being here and/or donating to the booty.  I'm not sure, but I don't think that is part of Pescado's intent as he blames everything on left-wing conspiracies when it is clear they are actually right-wing conspiracies.  But who knows?  

i most certainly will. thanks for answering me respectfully. i was expecting to have my head handed to me on a stick after my first thread.

You're welcome.  I was also hoping no one would hand you your head on a stick.  Such interesting questions!  I would really like to see how others will answer them.

Tim

[slickchick]

ok hec... may i call u hec? i read your links. very informative. the biggest point for me personally was the fact that sims 2 is the only pc game where this occurs. this is my very first pc game. i'm a ps2'er.  understanding the history and spirit of pc gaming puts it in a totally different context. because the whole defense of EA's copyright just isn't working for me. especially since technically they're profitting off modders themselves.

now i have a completely different question and i'm off my devil's advocate soapbox.

i have a problem with my game where whenever i "travel" in game - go to a community lot or go from one household to another. if the household i just left is content heavy - big family, big house, lots of furniture - when i get to the next lot my graphics go 'kaplooey.' objects will literally drag across the screen leaving stretched lines across my screen to the point where i can't play because i can't see what's going on in the lot. i have to completely shut the game down and reload. which sucks because it makes me not want to visit community lots. so my sim families are pretty much house bound. i can't fulfill my teens wants for a cell phone, etc or visit Dirk Dreamers beautiful restaurant Dirque Int'l. Is this a graphics card issue? a memory issue? i don't know what i need to upgrade to make my game act right.  and i fear the guy in Circuit City wouldn't know what i was talking about.  if u don't understand what i'm talking about i will take a screenshot. i know this is totally off topic but since i have your attn i figure 'what the hell?'

According to the label on the front of my pc, my specs are:
524 Intel Pentium 4 Processor
1.0 GB memory
200 GB hard drive
Integrated ATI RADEON Xpress 200 Graphics

any thoughts on this?

[tgriffy]

i have a problem with my game where whenever i "travel" in game - go to a community lot or go from one household to another. if the household i just left is content heavy - big family, big house, lots of furniture - when i get to the next lot my graphics go 'kaplooey.' objects will literally drag across the screen leaving stretched lines across my screen to the point where i can't play because i can't see what's going on in the lot. i have to completely shut the game down and reload. which sucks because it makes me not want to visit community lots. so my sim families are pretty much house bound. i can't fulfill my teens wants for a cell phone, etc or visit Dirk Dreamers beautiful restaurant Dirque Int'l. Is this a graphics card issue? a memory issue? i don't know what i need to upgrade to make my game act right. and i fear the guy in Circuit City wouldn't know what i was talking about. Sad if u don't understand what i'm talking about i will take a screenshot. i know this is totally off topic but since i have your attn i figure 'what the hell?'

It could be any or all of the above.  I would start with the graphics card.

Tim

[missangelica]

also, i don't see the harm in talented artists getting paid for their efforts.

Indeed, there is nothing wrong with artists being paid for their endeavors.  However, creating for the sims is nothing more than a hobby.  In other game communities people have spent literal years working one piece of CC for one game and don't ask for a dime.  They don't ask for bandwidth/hosting costs either.  It comes out of their own pockets.  If someone did try to ask for money, they would be laughed at and shown the door.

People's entitlement to money in this community is a strange phenomenon from years past.  It stemmed from Maxis' allowance of sites asking for donations for bandwidth.  People like to push further into what is unacceptable in the name of greed.  For the Sims 1, they got away with it because at the time what they did was considered higher quality items.  

When the Sims 2 was months away from being released, there were already people trying to charge for content from the stand alone bodyshop that was released.  They cried about how much larger the files were than CC for the original.  Quite a few were people that had only *just* opened their site.  It didn't matter if they had traffic or not!  Need I mention how awful the quality was?

After the game was released, our best and brightest spent months trying to understand the coding to allow for modding and inserting objects into the game.  They had a few hints here and there from the Maxoids but it was mainly their effort that gave us the ability to have all the CC we now have today.  From it SimPE and CEP were created, which are still free today.  It was the combination of tutorials though written by the community and help from the community that allowed what needed to be done to get objects/hair/clothing in the game be more understandable from those not as technically minded.  

A surge of new creations were beta tested in a single forum on MtS2 by again, the community, for at least a month before something I feel was a turning point in the community.  Crechebaby, owner of Simchic, started advertising for new clothing meshes only available on her site for pay.  When people complained, she removed the meshes that she had the people beta test and put them up for sell as well.  The war of pay versus free had begun.

Today the misguided still feel that pay items are better quality than free.  They look at the propaganda screens provided on the paysites as truth.  One brief look in the game for the majority of the pay items would obliterate that thought.  Even some of those enlightened still try to differentiate the creators that are truly good from the rest of the paysites.  I see it as counterproductive.  It enables those good creators to continue what they're doing instead of going free.

--

Additional thought:  What people seem to easily forget is that "Maxis" no longer exists.  It has been absorbed by Electronic Arts.  Paysite owners no longer have the cushion of protection that Maxis provided in the name of bandwidth.  Instead they chose to hide behind "donation" and/or that you're just paying to access the site and are not buying the CC.  For all their complaining though, they haven't actually done anything because they know they are wrong.  They are just bidding their time and milking this community for all it's worth.

Additional thought #2:  What people also seem to not understand is how little paysite creators actually create.  Nouk breaks it down here.

[slickchick]

I'm not sure, but I don't think that is part of Pescado's intent as he blames everything on left-wing conspiracies when it is clear they are actually right-wing conspiracies. But who knows?  

*giggles*

socialist, huh? as an american i myself have certain issues with this capitalist system. but i don't want to talk politics or get to deep into that. i wouldn't want to violate the patriot act or anything. u never know who's watching. *sigh*

[slickchick]

ty missangelica for the link. u guys are educating me immensely which is exactly what i wanted. just the fact that this is a new phenomenom in pc gaming does it for me. if the spirit of the gaming community has always been free sharing then what they're doing is wrong. i never knew that. i'm sold on that fact alone. coupled with a lot of the crappy crappola that people are requesting payment for. and it's even more interesting that simchic started it. do u see this MESS??? http://www.simchic.com/i/Image/Catalog/1404_DJ_GingerBrown.jpg

not only were my sim ladies tripping/falling and bumping into things because the hair in their eyes was obstructing their view, but they were also randomly stabbing unsuspecting sims with that super hard pointy unmoving ponytail in the back!

[slickchick]

It could be any or all of the above.  I would start with the graphics card.

uh well thanks for narrowing that down for me, tim.    according to my specs do i have a cheesy graphic card or insufficient memory? when i got the game i didn't really pay attn to specs. i assumed my pc was up to snuff. and for some stupid reason the system requirements are only on the plastic packaging that you throw away once u open the game.  i don't understand why it's not in the game manual.

[Shark*Tooth*Hester]

*useless post*

I think the best way to deal with the Seasons fridge updates is to do it yourself. It's easy.

I just updated ALL my fridges. Bless you.

*end useless post*

[tgriffy]

It could be any or all of the above.  I would start with the graphics card.

uh well thanks for narrowing that down for me, tim.    according to my specs do i have a cheesy graphic card or insufficient memory? when i got the game i didn't really pay attn to specs. i assumed my pc was up to snuff. and for some stupid reason the system requirements are only on the plastic packaging that you throw away once u open the game.  i don't understand why it's not in the game manual.

You can try checking for yourself by opening the EAsy Info program.  Use the one for the latest expansion pack you have.  Whatever says "Fail" is what may be giving you the problem.  Or maybe not.  I had a system that met the specs but I still had problems getting things running properly.  YMMV.

Tim

[slickchick]

You can try checking for yourself by opening the EAsy Info program.  Use the one for the latest expansion pack you have.  Whatever says "Fail" is what may be giving you the problem.  Or maybe not.  I had a system that met the specs but I still had problems getting things running properly.  YMMV.

Tim

how do u do that? i really am ignorant to all of this. i need to fix this though. i just never knew where to go for help or answers. this is the first forum i've joined where i'm actually talking to people. i usually join, lurk and dl. i want seasons, but i'm afraid my pc will implode. it's getting progressively slower and the graphic thingy is happening more frequently with every dl. but i can't stop dling - it's a disease...