Take a look at this!

[AW]

Solander - I can assure you that we have many free site creators here and their TOS' are respected.  Freesites are not a target and won't be a target at PMBD.  Pes is just being a smart ass, so you should ignore the whole "funny" comment.  File sharing is for those files which are unavailable to all users.  Files that are held for payment.  Once you buy it, it then becomes yours.  Copyright law even protects this which supercedes any TOS a pay creator may have.  No one here is out to hurt the creators and sites who maintain fully free sites, and TOS will be respected by those of us who support the free community.

Actually, if there was one file I'd take off the booty it would be Numenor's.  He has given far too much for this little insignificant file to even be an issue.  Plus, he is probably one of the nicest and most helpful mods that I have had contact with.  But, I don't make the rules, but in that instance I agree with you.

PS - Yes, I reponded.  :lol:

[Ry]

First of all, I never saw anything in the 'new' EULA that says, Charge for your stuff, it's okay!
And until Ea says that, I don't think anyone should be assuming these changes mean paysites are suddenly legal and a-okay. That's just plain silly. Don't leap on a small alteration in wording and use it as an excuse. Especially since before all the paysite owners spouted the Eula as nonsense to begin with! What fucking hypocrisy! Now it's okay to use it since you beleive it's saying you can charge? Bah. Greedy bints.

And I'll tell you what, all this complaining about the booty and Pescado...well, if you don't like the way he does things, you know that X at the top right corner of the screen? Push it.
He runs this site that allows you to come here and say what you want, he doesn't ban or delete posts he doesn't agree with. You should atleast be thanking him for allowing you all to come here and post freely! *especially since some people can be quite the annoying little buggers*

As for other gaming communities, c'mon! I've been into Morrowind, Oblivion etc...and if someone would have even tried to charge for any of their mods they would have been laughed out of the community!
Never have I seen another gamers community that charges.
Why does that not make some of you people think?
Go to the Elder Scrolls forum and see if you can find serious discontent in that community. You won't. You'll find a handful of people causing shit, but that's normal 12 year olds. You won't find a middle split community.

You want to spout respect? You want to spout togetherness and real community?
Then listen to what these people are saying because you won't find it in the sims because of greed and dollar $igns.
This community split down the middle when someone first figured out they could start a business with this.
The trouble was here LONG before PMBD or SFV.
It was caused by the paysites.
We can't be a real community until the WHOLE community tries. I've seen pirate after pirate sticking their necks out and offering to shell out dough to PAY for BANDWIDTH or help start new free sites.
They are offering out of their own pocket!!!
To give people FREE sites.
And they get turned down.
Now I don't know about any of you, but to me that screams I'm a greedy little fuck! You could set me up right and proper with a site no one has to pay for, but NO! I want money, money, money.
But this is alright? I can't believe people actually think this is NORMAL!!!
The DAY I bought the Sims1 my friend gave me a CD of paysite stuff. I said, what's this? She says, it's stuff from paysites. I said paysites? She says, yeah. Some people actually are greedy enough to charge for this shit.
This woman is in her forties and never even came to forums. And she, a real live, mature! person even thought it was bullshit.
I tell my mom about this stuff and she laughs.
"Charging for pretend furniture?" She asks.
I am so sick and fucking tired of seeing all the pay creators out there whining about losing money because PMBD. Well, ya fucking loophole, you weren't supposed to be making money off it to begin with! Good, I'm glad you're losing money.
Community. Bah.
This is what a community is:
People sharing their knowledge and creations freely.
People helping on another and not expecting anything in return.
Giving gifts that don't require payment. You can't give a gift that costs money! What kind of fucking gift is that? Donators gift is an oxymoron.
Where do you find this real community spirit?
At free sites.
At MTS2.
At SFV.
Here.
What does that say about all you pay people?
You're the reason this place exsists at all! You don't like it? Stop forcing simmers to choose then. Stop telling people who can't afford 39.95 for 6 months access that they aren't worthy of your downloads.
Because THAT is how it makes people feel and THAT is why this community is split.
So fuck you.  :!:

[AW]

That was a lovely post, my friend.  Paden is gonna be so proud

*takes ry to the Pirate's Cove, opens the rum and gets knee-walking stumbling stupid drunk for her 'shut the fuck up'*

[joan_fontaine]

Well as soon as they officially support paysites, I'm finding another game to play. Sorry to say but it's true.

Seriously.  The day that they officially support paysites, is the day that I uninstall all of my Sims games and never buy another piece of EA crap.

[SparklePlenty]

Hold up, people. Please explain to me how the EULA for the Custom Content Browser has anything to do with this issue?

1. The EULA that I agreed to when I installed Seasons Body Shop is still valid, I believe. It has not been changed, because then I would not have been able to agree with it. It still prohibits commercial use.

2. Nobody can create anything using the Custom Content Browser, and therefore cannot sell anything produced by the Custom Content Browser, since it doesn't produce anything.

3. Why are we so quick to assume that EA has backed off their position? If they did suddenly say you could sell your creations with the game and body shop, they would have to answer to all the copyright holders that provide content for this game: ie. Hillary Duff, H&M, Ford Motor Company, etc.

How about giving this some thought before flying off the handle, folks?

[Pescado]

It does. But if i do read phrases like "it's just not funny enough" as reason, why our stuff is not also uploaded to the booty, i do ask myself, what saves me from being the next, if someone gets bored and is looking for 2nd class fun.

Mostly, because it doesn't amuse me to do anything to you. After all, I don't have any reason to specifically dislike you. If I really hated you, you might be the subject of a new "solander.mustbedestroyed.org", but honestly, I don't really think that'd be very popular, and thus the potential for butthurt and lulz would be minimal. Not a very good return on investment.

The bottom line being, that, objectively, your TOS is worthless. It has the same lack of legal standing that paysites do, and you have even less of a warchest to try to enforce it with. You're frankly better off going with an official "Meh" position and saving yourself a lot of potential grief. After all, YOU don't make money off it, and YOU don't lose anything if someone happens to download your work from a third party redistributor instead of from your site. Realistically, unless someone has actually plagiarized your work to claim credit for themselves, it does not have ANY effect on you WHERE they get it. So I simply fail to see why you'd even care, but I'm kind of a pragmatist like that. The only reason people follow it at all is voluntary compliance combined with lack of serious incentive to do so, and I would suspect that most of that is token lip service anyway: If you were to take your toys and go home, or your site were to explode in a big fiery ball visible from space, I have every reason to believe your "fans" would quickly turn around and ignore that little TOS of yours. People are more committed to Getting Stuff than they are to your TOS. Realistically, you're better off accepting this. Support "Meh" as an official policy.

[Ry]

That was a lovely post, my friend.  Paden is gonna be so proud

*takes ry to the Pirate's Cove, opens the rum and gets knee-walking stumbling stupid drunk for her 'shut the fuck up'*

Yay! Rum I don't have to steal! :lol:
Ty, ty!

[joan_fontaine]

How about giving this some thought before flying off the handle, folks?

I'm not sure if you're talking to me(?), but I wasn't trying to over-react or anything.  I was just agreeing with Feverish that, if and when EA ever comes out officially and supports paysites, I would stop playing the game.  It's an ethical thing for me, I guess.

That hasn't happened yet, obviously, no matter how loud the paysite supporters are crowing it up over @ SC2, but...  I just wouldn't be able to enjoy the game anymore if EA was all "TSR is wonderful and we support them!"  Maybe that's weird, I guess.  :/

[Solander]

Mostly, because it doesn't amuse me to do anything to you. After all, I don't have any reason to specifically dislike you. If I really hated you, you might be the subject of a new "solander.mustbedestroyed.org", but honestly, I don't really think that'd be very popular, and thus the potential for butthurt and lulz would be minimal. Not a very good return on investment.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

You should really consider to go pay You could blackmail me with all our stuff hosted at solander.mustbedestroyed.org. I had to buy free all those hostage packages and you would get rich Sounds better now?

The bottom line being, that, objectively, your TOS is worthless. It has the same lack of legal standing that paysites do, and you have even less of a warchest to try to enforce it with. You're frankly better off going with an official "Meh" position and saving yourself a lot of potential grief. After all, YOU don't make money off it, and YOU don't lose anything if someone happens to download your work from a third party redistributor instead of from your site. Realistically, unless someone has actually plagiarized your work to claim credit for themselves, it does not have ANY effect on you WHERE they get it. So I simply fail to see why you'd even care, but I'm kind of a pragmatist like that. The only reason people follow it at all is voluntary compliance combined with lack of serious incentive to do so, and I would suspect that most of that is token lip service anyway: If you were to take your toys and go home, or your site were to explode in a big fiery ball visible from space, I have every reason to believe your "fans" would quickly turn around and ignore that little TOS of yours. People are more committed to Getting Stuff than they are to your TOS. Realistically, you're better off accepting this. Support "Meh" as an official policy.

I know, that i can not enforce our TOS. In fact, i have to nothing in my hands against anyone, that decides not to respect them. But nonetheless, i count on the fairness of others in this community to respect our TOS, and most of them, even here , do so.

And as pointed out before: If i should decide to quit, all content would be free to use for everyone and no TOS would apply anymore. But until that time, I ask to respect them.

[calalily]

Ummm...I did answer...In the NeptuneSuzy thread.  I am not answering the same question multiple times anymore...LOL

Um - no you didn't.  You said that uploading to third party sites was a hassle for your users - unless somehow fileshare friendly policies for sold content are a hassle - which I can't see.

Actually, it is innocent until proven guilty, so the burden of proof is on you folks.  Ante up.

No - this isn't a court of law - we're not even discussing this in a country with an adversarial system - Malaysia has an inquisitorial system, with a totally different set of rules.

He is just doing  this to be an ass.

I know who's being an ass here, and it's not just Pescado.

I have to go to work now, so it'll be safe for you to bash me for 10 or 12 hrs, Pescado.  LOL

And when you come back, you can safely ignore my questions again, just as you did with Angha Tyl's.

But maybe i should explain, why i pay him lots of mind. As he does represent this forum as well as the booty. It's not Hecubus's site, it's not bigtruckgirl's site, it's Pescado's site, if anyone would be asked. And if he does say something, I can't ignore is without taking notice of it.

The thing is that if Pescado came to upload free stuff to the booty - who would come?  If I go to your site, I can get it.  If I go to Pescado's site, I can get it.  I would choose to go to the free site - not the booty.  I certainly wouldn't direct people to his repository - but rather yours.  Many other people wouldn't do it either - and finding reliable types to download free stuff and upload it - that would be very hard too.  Not to mention that your site - I get it the day of the release. Pescado's site, I wait a few days - who would do that?

Not to mention that keeping up with free site stuff (and there's a lot) would mean around the clock uploading - look at how much you would need to do.  What for? Nothing?  Butthurt only happens when you actually hurt the other person.

He's not an every day angry user, who want's to harrass someone to get some relief.

He has many people to harass - I'm sure you're way down on his list.  He has all of us to give custom titles to, as well as those at MATY to harass.  Pescado is a busy angry man - I doubt freesites are a blip on his radar.

[Saraswati]

Hey Solander

*note, I hope this makes sense, it's 5am* I think Pes is actually putting a sensible policy in his usual blunt terms.. For me it comes down to this, you have to shrug your shoulders and move on for the times when someone is being a pain and absolutely won't pay attention to your TOS.. Like the guy at Pandora who apparently is hosting some of Numenor's files against his will. You can relationship build with those around you so that people want to take care of you, you can ask politely, you can even yell.. but when it comes down to it if someone decides to do the wrong thing, beyond a sensible point the easiest thing you can do is shrug your shoulders and move on so that it doesn't ruin your hobby for you. And that would be the "meh" point for me..

Be rest-assured what most free site and even booty people are more likely to do is link-share.. Almost every forum I'm a member of has a "Finds" area for links to cool stuff we find and man, we get excited when we do... Everyone I know checks TOS and will generally just move on if it is too stiff for our taste. What we don't do is share already free stuff against the person's will.. mostly the only people who do that are on the Exchange and occasional rude sites like Pandoras (which are usually paysites might I add), and like I said we can ask nicely, we can even yell but in the end there's bugger all we can do about them.

Redisenchanted I am actually aware that PMBD predates the S2C thread.. but the S2C thread is where I count this issue as going from a niche issue to an issue everyone was aware of community wide.. A whole heap of us were trying to do stuff about the issue at that point, some of it was just pointless was all..  :lol:

Angha..

[toomanyguppys]

It never was a legal issue for me in the first place, and I've thought that all the debating about the intent of the EULA was just clouding the real issues.  If EA is going to officially let the community factions fight it out amongst themselves, that's a good thing.  We've got most of the brains on our side.

EA can't (or shouldn't) really come out against file sharing, since the Exchange does much of what PMBD does, just in a more craptacular and less organized way.  

At the same time, if EA is basically going to say "everyone carry on as you were, and figure it out amongst you," then why on earth would TSR want to call attention to that?  I mean, at this point they aren't telling TSR (and others) to stop charging money, but they aren't telling PMBD (and others, including their own exchange) to stop sharing pay files for free, either.

If EA simply backs out of the argument, and leaves TSR, Peggy, etc., at the mercy of the pirates and other anti-pay factions, I know who I'm placing my bet on for the win, and it ain't TSR or Gap-Girl.

[Zazazu]

It started as a legal thing for me. Legal + feeling like I'd been duped by TSR. (Wait...I paid Atwa and Juttapoontah?). But this doesn't change a diddly durned thing for me & my conscience.

For one, no where in this new "Content Tools" EULA does it say that paysites are A-ok. For two, there hasn't been anything posted that changes the EULA for the games, Homecrafter, and BodyShop. For C, there still is the issue of paysites providing little to no support for issues with faulty downloads, items which do not appear as advertised, or lost days of subscriptions due to site downtime. For IV, I may not be a nasty little ass (said with affection, kiddo) like Pescado, I may be a tree-hugging little hippy, but let's examine one of the main credos of tree-hugging hippyhood: Free Love. You charge for the love, you make it not free. This makes hippies cry.

[Saraswati]

Free Love. You charge for the love, you make it not free. This makes hippies cry.

Karminger.. ah, bless.. I love that. I'm going to post that one on the front of my 'puter I think...

[Paden]

Ry, I am proud of you. EA is still waffling just as bad as a place that serves breakfast twenty-four hours a day. They're playing one side against the other, but don't realize that it's going to bite them in their rapidly shrinking balls. If we can't get customer support for what we buy, we're gonna raise hell. If we can't get satisfaction from the bastards who sold it to us, we're then going to turn on the ones who said that it was ok to sell it in the first place.
Besides, what the paysites are selling is still copyrighted material, correct? At times, it's copyrighted in more than one way, with a Disney logo or something similar. We've all heard that Walt's company has at one time or another gone after sites selling shit with their logo/characters on it and told them to knock it the fuck off. Can't you just see some dumb fucker of a paysite owner telling the big Diz that EA said it was ok, that they could sell content? I'd love to be around when the shit hit the fan and the Ears go after the Madden maker!
Fuck them. In the ear, up the ass, through the nose. I made a decision to stick with this place and my fellows until the end, and as I see it, this is nowhere near the end. It's just another storm in the sea and we've got a better ship than the paysites do, all they have is shit. I'm gonna support and nurture this site as best I can. I'm gonna praise FREE sites to the skies and beyond. But paysites? Hell, I wouldn't even waste shit by throwing it at them, why punish the waste that comes from a body?
TSR is feeling smug? Why? They didn't get an exclusive agreement. They didn't get a SIGNED contract that says they work for EA. If they ain't got it, they can't have my money. I'm not a thief, never have been. Once something is paid for by me, it's mine so go piss up a rope if you don't like what I do with it. Is Wal-Mart gonna come after me wanting me to pay for the hand-me-downs that my son got from his older cousin? Don't look at me like that, those clothes carry copyrights and all that happy shit, are you so sure the store wouldn't want them to be paid for again? Silly assholes, they think they are owed for what they do.
Sure, they're owed something. Wanna know what they are owed? A big fucking hammer slamming them in the shins for being dickwads that don't understand ethics! You don't charge for copyrights and trademarks that don't belong to you. As I understand it, the package file is part of the game engine. I'm not paying them for something that they had no part in engineering. I'm also not paying for a goddamn Adidas log, especially when it looks like shit and I myself wouldn't wear it, so why should I put it onto my sims?
Also, why should I pay for stuff that would look better if a pre-school child had coloured it with those big old fat crayons they give the little ones to use in kindergarten? My son could do a better job than some of them and he's not even into using crayons yet! He'd much rather take a bar of soap and smear it across every glass surface that he can find. Come to think of it, that would look better than much of the paystuff I've seen.
Now, as to how we fit into the community, being pirates and all. I've actually given a great deal of thought to this before, and think I've said it already, but it's worth repeating. Those of you who've heard it before, go grab some popcorn and rum. Those who haven't, siddown and be comfy and listen the hell up. We pay for the files from paysites. It gets checked to make sure it's not buggered up. At least, not buggered any more than it would be from that site normally. Then, it is posted in the Booty for anyone who would like to download it for themselves. We free the people of financial obligation to get these files. We allow them to make up their minds on if this stuff is worth having, WITHOUT having to shell out bucks only to find out that it's total shit that borks their game or plain looks like something that rests within an infant's diaper.
We don't go after free sites, because they are free. They GIVE to other users without restraint and they normally make sure their stuff is top quality. They make it because they love to play the game and want to share what they are capable of making. People like this are deeply appreciated and respected.
Paysite owners/creators view it as a job, first and foremost, that they make money off of. It doesn't matter what quality it is so long as they can get a buck or ten out of it. Money. Reminds me of the same song by the Beatles. And another one by Pink Floyd. With them, it is greed. Don't hand me that tripe about bandwidth costs, it ain't on. A site should not cost more than twenty a month, and if it does, you're getting the shaft up the shaft and need to get a new provider.
So, while maybe we don't offer our own original creations here, we still give back to the other gamers in this community because we think it's the right thing to do. We don't go around asking people to send us bucks so we can make a profit. We ask for help getting pay items so we can distribute them among the people who simply can't afford, have credit cards, feel paying is wrong and any other reason they may have. Why does that make us bad? We pay for shit. We don't hack a site to get what they have. We give. Doesn't that make us a charity?
Just wondering. And again, Ry, your post made me smile.
And for those of you idiots who missed my points, shut the fuck up and read it again until it makes sense or figure out that we've not lost a damn thing! Not our rights to spend our money how we will, not our determination that what we do is right, and not the right to distribute OUR purchases as we see fit. You've not really gained a damn thing. My reaction? EA has no balls. You read too much into shit that doesn't make sense. Ahhhh, what's the use of trying to explain things to a fuckwit? If a brain was a sexual organ, they'd break open their skulls to play with it... just because you can make money with this game, doesn't mean that you ought to. Get employment, exclusive employment with the company and maybe I will buy shit from you. But, if I knew for sure that Atwat and the other twats were working for them, I'd play tiddlywinks for the rest of my life with broken glass!