MIKEY!!!

[tgriffy]

Here I agree with HawkGirl - I don't really want my children (or anyone else's) learning their sexual morality from people on the internet.  What are they going to learn from these sites?  

In the case of M&M - they'll learn women are objects, that should wear lingerie, strip, and generally be a living sex toy for others - to be ogled at.  I have two boys, and I don't want them to learn anything like that.

These sorts of things of course, need to be talked about, but not presented as merely a fact of life, or a way of doing things - as if there should not be discussion and critiquing.  Indeed, all the research shows that children can be introduced to adult concepts - but only with the discussion, guidance and critiquing of sensible adults.  If merely presented with the material, they're liable to misinterpret it, and develop bad judgements.  Like opening a paysite

I would certainly agree that children learning their sexual morality from people on the Internet is not the best way of going about it.  That is definitely where parental responsibility comes into play -- before they get on the Internet.

If you think about it, I would say your boys are probably already learning that women should wear lingerie, strip, and otherwise be a sex toy.  If I were a parent, I feel my responsibility would be to make sure that is perfectly all right -- in the proper context of a loving relationship.  My first instinct was to say that they probably wouldn't be learning anything they wouldn't get from schoolyard gossip on the subject.  But then, I don't ever remember discussing BDSM with my schoolmates.  We shared our parents' Playboy magazines, lusted after the bared bodies in R-rated movies, and brag about getting this or that girl in bed.  The good news is that most of them eventually outgrow these initial sexual misadventures.

And please note that nothing I have said earlier precludes discussion, guidance, and critiquing of responsible parents.  Indeed, if anything, I would say that what I have in mind emphasizes such guidance.  That way if they do encounter sites like M&M and play with the things they download from it, at least they will have a firm understanding of the difference between fantasy and how things work in real life.

Tim

[calalily]

If you think about it, I would say your boys are probably already learning that women should wear lingerie, strip, and otherwise be a sex toy.  If I were a parent, I feel my responsibility would be to make sure that is perfectly all right -- in the proper context of a loving relationship.  

I have already discussed these issues with my boys - at the grand old age of 8 and 10.  But when an "adult" figure such as Mikey, who lauds his marriage, and family values does it - mixed messages.  It's not even as if you have to look hard for it - it's on the front page, and in all the discussion.  I am so fucking glad my kids don't download sims content.

And just because I know the research, and am not backward in discussing these things doesn't mean that every other parent is as astute, or informed.  Many are not paying enough attention, and their kids get the quick message that they shouldn't talk about it - and they go to the Mikey's of the world for their twisted views.

We have an obligation not only to our own children, but to the children of others too - they will be mixing with our children and running the future world with them when they're older.  If their parents won't do it, then we should do it for them.

[AW]

I totally agree with you Calalily.  I, too, have had "the talk" about many things related to the sexualization of women and men.  Informing and educating your children will give them the understanding of these issues from a trustworthy and mature source.  I think it also will keep that door opened when they have other questions or issues as they grow older.

I remember telling my oldest daughter this when she asked what to do when a boy is pressuring you to be intimate (it wasn't her - thank God, she didn't have her first serious boyfriend until 19):  You are going to a dance, I will spend $50 on a dress.  We look and look for weeks and the only dress that we both love is $100.  You promise to do the laundry, clean the kitchen, watch you brother and sister, dust, etc.  So I give in, I buy the dress for the dance.  True to your word, for the next few days you are a big help.  You go the dance on Friday and you are the most beautiful girl there.  You have a great time.  So, what happens on Saturday?  She answered that she would probably "forget" about all the promises she made.  I responded with, "So what makes you think some 14 year old boy who lives in his parent's house, has no job, no bank account, can't drive and still has pimples is going to "love you forever" and take care of you if there should be a child that is conceived?  She got the point and is today still a virgin at the age of 21.  We have always been open and honest, talked about birth control, etc.  She has not dated someone she felt was important enough to give herself to in that way.  So, talking to your kids early DOES work.  Way to go Calalily, a lot of respect I have for you, even more that I did for being the person, friend and mother that you are.

[Anyerfillag]

I am also still a virgin at the age of 21, so let her know she's not the only one! I didn't have the big talks when I was young (if I did I don't remember) but grew up in an environment which allowed me to see beyond just the sex and the consequences that come with it (emotional, physical etc).

I know of at least 5 girls I used to go to school with who have at least one child or more and aren't with the father. I still get funny looks from certain people when they find out that i am still a virgin, as if it's a sin to be one! I'm too busy worrying about my career and life to concern myself with sex and guys, which some say can be a bad thing. I do want to get married and have kids (but not too late) but right now I'm enjoying my life

[calalily]

Thanks armywife - that's really sweet.  God help me if Pescado sees this.   I like your analogy with the dress too - little piece of brilliance there.  I mostly got the talking thing from my parents - they answered all my questions when I asked them - I even remember knowing about (of all things) ectopic pregnancies when I was 12 - I remember because I explained it to my friends  :lol:

I think that the sexualisation talk is particularly important with boys - everything is sold to men with their genitals in mind - from fast cars, magazines, and even goddamn radio shows.  It sucks.  I want my kids to be more than a pair of dicks (both in attitude and in the minds of advertisers) when they grow up - I want them to be people.  

And Anyerfillag - funny looks are nothing compared to how I'm sure you'll feel looking back on good, thoughtful decisions.  

[Ry]

Kudo's to the virgins!
Seriuosly.

I went over that cliff waaaay to early. No sex talks from ma for me. She was too embarrassed or something.
I ended up preggers at 17, but it was accidental because I was actually on the pill and it went through anyways, then again in 06 i was on the pill and hello Eli.
Just for future reference, because no one ever told me this, anti-biotics void your pill from working!
Now I love my kids with my whole self, but it would have been nice to have waited to have them.
I also have 2 boys. Cam's nine and we are just now beginning the sex talks.
Any advice with that from those who've been there would be appreciated!!! LOL PM me, really.... :lol:

[scrappysim]

I have four kids.  Two daughters, 17 and 15, as well as two sons, 15 and 9.  Our "talks" have been ongoing and constant.  Anytime they have wnated to know something we have been honest and answered then (with an age appropriate anwer that allowed them to understand our family values.

The advice I can give is dont wait to have "The talk".  First, there isnt ONE talk to have, there are many.  Find teachable moments,  I remember when my youngest daughter was about 8 and we were watching 7th Heaven on TV and the episode was about someone finding a condom in a wallet.  My oldest son said "what is a condom" and my daughter proceeded to tell him "You know, its where my dad lives".  (at the time my Ex lived in a Condo).  We all had a good laugh and then a great conversation about what a condom really was.  

As they have gotten older our conversations have remained age appropriate and they now know about every STD I can tell them about.  I have shown them pictures of what these STD's look like (nothing like showing your teen pictures of herpes sores or a brain ravaged by syphilis to make them think twice about unprotected sex.)  At this point none of my teens have decided that it is worth the chance and all are still virgins.  (whew).  They have told me it just isnt worth it for now.  

The best part about it is that it has opened a great line of communication between us and since they can see that I can talk freely about this then they seem to trust me to talk freely about other things in thier lives.  My 9 year old thinks it is totally normal to talk to your parents about everything and be able to ask any question you want without your parents freaking out and getting all wierd and when his friends are surprised he doesnt get why thier parents arent the same.  (he tells me he is glad we arent like that.)

[calalily]

ry, you silly - no need for pms on Pescado's forums.  That's why he doesn't lock threads - conversation should segue naturally into other things.

As far as the sex talks, apart from the sexualisation one, I never had them with my kids - I've answered them as they've come along.  So I've had mini-talks with them all their lives.  Like when they started using the word "bitch".  Their father told them it was a forbidden word, I told them it was a forbidden word, and when one called the other "a son of a bitch" in the other room  -  :lol: that kid almost regretted the day he was born - with mum running in screeching "What the fuck did you just call me?"  :lol: From that day on, if mentioned, it was "the b word" - and we had no problems when we told them that whore, slut, cunt were forbidden words after that.  

As for the sexualisation talk, from when they were babies, we raised them with a critical eye for advertising.  Telling them about sugar early, and then showing the lies of "energy" is really a byword for sugar - and they use that to make sugar seem healthy.  We also showed them stuff like 99% fat free marshmallows, and discussed how much crap there is in these things.  Now, when they see cocopops recommended for energy, they automatically and very cynically say "Yeah, right."  

It also didn't hurt to have them watch a couple of Maury Povich shows with those ginormous people and kids - to show where this can lead.  Don't get me wrong - they still get lollies, but they understand that they are not supposed to be a staple in your diet, and if you don't want to be on those shows, you better think moderation.

For approaching the subject about sex in ads, we talked about how sex was a wonderful and fun thing to do, but it was important that you loved the person.  We then talked about how they sell things to little girls, and they're all pink, to boys, and they're all camouflage.  Then we talked about how ads are used to try to get you to want things.  We said that lots of people like sex, and because of that, advertisers will use it to sell things.  

I gave them an example of me.  I said think of all the things they thought were good about me (smart, funny etc) and how when you saw things how ads wanted you to, you stopped seeing someone who was smart, and started seeing someone that was just someone to have sex with, and you miss out on all the other things that make me wonderful.  We then reinforced it with their own ideas about themselves (smart, funny etc.) and how terrible it would be if someone ignored that in them.  

We told them that they should not be fooled into thinking of people as having one thing they're interested in - and that they wouldn't like that themselves, and that even worse, advertisers use that to make people into "sleazes". (This is now one of the top insults in this house - so bad it's not actually used).  We then discussed how if all sleazes are interested in is sex, then they can't have the wonderful life that Daddy and I have - they would miss all the wonderful things about the person - in favour of sex.  

Of course, it was fleshed out, and took a couple of hours, and over the next couple of days, we answered every question they had, but it's worked well -- so far -- no guarantees - they're not grown people yet.

My 9 year old thinks it is totally normal to talk to your parents about everything

Tell me about it - my husband almost had a heart attack when my at the time 9 year old asked me if I'd ever cheated on Daddy - in the kitchen - in front of Daddy - while making dinner  :lol: Talk about no shame.

[tgriffy]

I have already discussed these issues with my boys - at the grand old age of 8 and 10.  But when an "adult" figure such as Mikey, who lauds his marriage, and family values does it - mixed messages.  It's not even as if you have to look hard for it - it's on the front page, and in all the discussion.  I am so fucking glad my kids don't download sims content.

And just because I know the research, and am not backward in discussing these things doesn't mean that every other parent is as astute, or informed.  Many are not paying enough attention, and their kids get the quick message that they shouldn't talk about it - and they go to the Mikey's of the world for their twisted views.

We have an obligation not only to our own children, but to the children of others too - they will be mixing with our children and running the future world with them when they're older.  If their parents won't do it, then we should do it for them.

I for one think you have done well to have these discussions with your boys to begin with.  Basically, that is exactly the kind of thing that I am advocating.  You are setting them up to deal with mixed messages in a mature fashion, and who can complain about that?  Because they are going to get the mixed messages, whether online, in the schoolyard, or the traditional media.

Of course not all parents are as astute, informed, or willing to deal with the issue.  My parents were pretty hands off when it came to my sexual activities.  I don't know whether I learned from example or copious reading or combinations thereof.  But whatever I have my Sims do, or whatever porn sites I visit, I know how to separate the fantasy in real life and would never treat any woman as a mere sex object.

I don't know what should be done about parents who are unwilling/unable to discuss sexual matters with their children.  Advocacy and education is my first recourse, of course.  I also like sites like Scarletteen where the teens themselves can go and get good information if they can't talk about it with their parents (or their parents don't have good information).  And if the damned politicians would leave teachers alone and teach sex education the way it should be taught, things would be so much better.  I would also daresay that most of the kids who pick up twisted views of sex at Mikey's site will live and learn better on their own.  And again, that is what I would rather see, that they live and learn rather than getting picked up by a sexual predator.

Beyond that, I'm not certain how we should go about doing it for parents.  The political atmosphere in the US is insane, so forget about the schools doing it.  And as it has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, if a kid wants to get a hold of some porn or adult Sims mods, there going to do it.  The only other option I can think of is to make very restrictive laws, but I doubt many laws could be written that would not be slapped down by the courts on free speech grounds.

Tim

[AW]

Tim, as with laws concerning gun control, they do no good if there are not applicable punishments.  You can write laws all day long, but without involving the justice side of things, they are essentially useless.

Parents should consider things such as inappropriate touching or contact (I saw on the Dr. Phil show recently a grandfather had abused his 5 year old granddaughter - the sick fuck).  Also, when faced with "Do I want my child to learn about sex in the back of a school bus or behind the gym bleachers?"  The answer was a resounding NO!  Kids are more curious about the unknown.  I think that is why we have such a problem with underage drinking is that it is forbidden - like Eve and  the apple so to speak.  In Europe, I have not seen the abuse of alcohol among teens and young adults as I do here in the states.

One word that is absolutely not tolerated by me is the c***, I won't even type it.  It is disgusting and raunchy.  

ry, my first talk with my son, who is now 11 (thank God he can't read this forum) was when he was 3 1/2 and he woke up and came crying to me saying "It's big, it's big!  Make it little again"  I drew blood biting the inside of my mouth trying not to laugh and proceeded to explain those things to him and have expanded as time has gone on.  I also breast fed his younger sister and we talked about that as well.  Ignorance for children who are curious is a dangerous combination.  I would prefer to control the information, format it is given and the context.  I don't need society to do that for me.  We just bought him a book about puberty (he gets a little embarrassed sometimes) since we felt like he understands things visually vs. orally better.  I looked around the library and read several books until I found one that a kid could understand and one that I was familiar enough with to answer questions.

[tgriffy]

armywife, I agree that laws without applicable punishments won't do any good.  What I fear is the type of laws that would almost have to be written to keep the kiddies away from the material.  As near as I can tell, none of us here are in the Religious Right, so I would assume that the goal is to keep children out while allowing adults to have access.  But kids being what they are, the kind of restrictions that will be necessary to keep them out would go beyond what I am willing to assent to.

Europe generally does have a better model for dealing with things like sex, drugs and alcohol.  Then again, Europe's Religious Right is not a significant factor in its politics the way it is here in the States.

I do like how you have deal with sexual issues with your children.  I think it is appropriate and helpful for keeping discussions open when they do start learning things in the schoolyard.  And they will.  That is the third thing that is guaranteed in life along with death and taxes.

Tim

[Ensign EO]

Aww, my dad never talks to me about anything serious.  No talks about sex, drugs, dating, school--most of that stuff I learnt on my own.  Not always through first-hand experience (thank goodness), but mostly by observing my peers.  I don't need to make my own mistakes if others make them before me and I catch onto the lesson.  <.<

Underaged (binge) drinking in ND is pretty common--I always hear people talk about getting DUIs, things that happened at parties when so-and-so was drunk, girls getting pregnant at the parties, guys screwing some chick because they were both drunk...  When I lived in Seaside, I would sometimes smell alcohol near my locker or in the general area my locker was in--I haven't smelled it around here yet, but I do know some kids have shown up at school drunk.  I haven't had much contact with drug users (aside from the drinkers), but I did know a few pot smokers at Seaside (who generally also drank).

One of my peers from Seaside, who is roughly my age, had a child not too long ago--I don't know if the father has stuck around or if she has dropped out, but her friends were all over it, talking about how cute the kid is and stuff.  There's been other teenaged pregnancies at the school, some who dropped out and some who didn't--as for the school I go to now, I haven't heard of any pregnancies, but I wouldn't doubt it.  Some people in Seaside would complain about their older siblings (who were either juniors or seniors at the school) having sex in the younger sibling's bed, or people would tease others (who sometimes would later talk about regretting it) for sleeping with so-and-so.  Here in ND, I've heard most of the same things.  I don't worry much about being the "only" virgin, of course, but I'd be lying if I said the thought never crossed my mind.

I've never been offered drugs or invited to their drinking parties--I guess I'm not cool enough to party with, but I don't lament it.  I have had boyfriends who wanted to have sex with me--sometimes asking if I wanted to, sometimes by talking about how they'll eventually get in my pants (I thought it was kind of insulting and worrying--like, they were either going to rape me if I refused or they thought I couldn't control my hormones or something).  I've told them all the same thing--it's not going to happen as soon as they think, if at all.

I once ended a relationship on Valentine's Day--not on purpose, mind you, I didn't notice the date until afterwards--because he made a move on me on the second or third day we were going out.  I don't know if that was the best thing I could do, but it freaked me out that sex might have been the only reason he wanted to date me--breaking up was the first solution that came to mind.  That was the first and, so far, only time I ever broke up with someone--all the other times I was the one being dumped.  I haven't had a relationship last more than a couple of weeks yet because not a single one of them was willing to wait for me or was able to handle one argument.

And that's fine--personally, I'd feel really weird if my first time was with someone who has already had sex with several people, or with someone who, after one argument, decides I'm not worth it because I'm not "easy" in any sense of the word.  I'm not idealistic--I'm not waiting for a prince to come sweep me off my feet and we'll make passionate love atop a mountain with an orchestra around the corner playing music while a group of angels descend from the sky and sing.  :lol:  If I'm going to be awkward in bed, I'd rather be awkward with someone who waited for me and can hold a conversation with me than with someone who doesn't even know what I like to do in my spare time and just thinks of me as another "killmark", so to speak.

I wish I had a cool mom.  Someone adopt me for a few months.  :lol:

[AW]

I'll adopt you Ensign.  We even have a guest bedroom complete with bed, dresser, closet (though I'll have to move my formal and cocktail dresses) but, not worries.  I really need someone to go see chick flicks with and shopping.  So, pack your bags and come on!  

You are right for not giving yourself to someone whose only objective is how quickly he can get in your pants.  Gah!  I was a virgin when I married and I have never regretted that decision.  So, you go girl and don't let anyone tell you what to do with your body, it only takes one time to get an STD or get pregnant.

[Anyerfillag]

Aw Ensign, not all blokes are like that - my best mate Julia has been dating a guy for a year now and he is a total gentleman and a total sweetie. They were both virgins when they met each other, but there was no pressure from either side to loose it. They make the cutest couple and I wouldn't be surprised if they got engaged :lol:

Hope to God I can find someone like him *sigh*

The fact that you can acknowledge that the drunk, drugs and sex thing it wrong shows you're okay. Be stronger then your peers and have a life before making life changes decisions such as the sex thing. I've not let peer pressure get to me and University was still the best three years of my life (so far). If you can't have a childhood/teenhood/young adulthood now, when can you?

[alia]

One more reason for not doing it until you find someone you really like:

Sex is so much better when you have feelings for the person you're with, and if you are both in love with each other, it is amazing.

I'm serious. Feelings make all the difference.

So don't let anyone talk you into bed just to get rid of your virginity, wait for the person who actually shows s/he is worth it.

(The same thing also applies to guys, but for some reason people don't talk about it.)