New MTS2 Rules

[Renegade]

... He might inadvertantly be advertising for the pay, yes, but that's where PSMD comes in...

LOL ry, you didn't read the FAAAAAAAQQQQZZZZZZZ ur in trouble now  :shock: lol

PMBD – Paysites Must Be Destroyed (and it’s not PSMD or PMTD or any other misspelling of our acronym)

I had to, ry, I just had to  :lol:

[Ry]

Well, Plum. I try my best.
But, tbh, that last part...Hope that helps...wasn't addressed to you.

And gahdammit, i can't believe i misspled an acronim.
lol
PMBD. PMBD.
Man I hope Hecubus doesn't put me in the brig.

 :lol:

[Lorelei]

I don't think MTS2 would be adverse to creator feedback, especially PMBDers.

Sometimes a policy seems airtight, but has loopholes or flaws that only become apparent after the policy is given a trial run.

Perhaps they chose not to link to the booty payfiles because we do release files once creators go free, which does occasionally occur (but not often enough).

How would the policy be improved? Perhaps we can hash out some suggestions and offer them to MTS2 as a gesture of support and goodwill for their efforts to promote only freesites.

Personally, I think obliterating pay items with censor bars sounds like a fair compromise as long as the offered objects are clearly visible. Another option might be headless Sims, in the case of clothing.

Thoughts?

[Plum]

I don't think censoring pay items addresses the main issue, but I do think it's a reasonable thing to allow creators to do.  I was disappointed to think that my screenshots I had made some time ago, which I put a lot of effort into (too much, admittedly) would not be allowed at MTS2.  I thought censoring them was a good compromise, but they were rejected anyway.

I don't really have a problem with keeping pay stuff out of my screenshots in the future, but I do still think it's unreasonable to reject screenshots because of the censoring, especially since heavily photoshopped screenshots are allowed.

As for a suggestion that addresses the main issue, I've already given the ones I can think of: either don't advertise paysites at all, not even their free stuff, or advertise that their pay items should not be paid for and are available for free.  I'm not very creative I suppose, but at least it's straight-forward.

[HystericalParoxysm]

Heavily photoshopped screenshots that obscure the item in question, or are so altered (with censoring, filtering, etc.) that the alteration is distracting and detracts from the item in question would not be allowed.

Asking where someone got suchandsuch hair (or whatever else) is not allowed in the threads anymore, either... mainly because it's downright rude to just post "Hay where did u get that hair???" on someone's upload when they've spent a long time on what they've actually -made-.  People can still ask in PMs and if the PMer wants to go, "Oh, that hair is by Peggy, here's her site (link) - which has some pay hair, which you can get at PMBD (link)" that's up to them.

We're trying to promote -free content- and if paysites want to make free content, great.  We'd love for them to be completely free, but we're not going to stop people from using the free items because other ones are pay.  Just like we're not going to stop doing finds of free content from sites that have pay content for the S2C Finds.

What you see is what you should be able to get without paying.  That's it.

What I would rather see, personally, is uploaders - and free site owners - putting somewhere prominently on their site or upload, "Hey, if you appreciate all this pretty free content and want to see the Sims 2 community free and full of hugs and puppies, don't pay for Sims 2 content!  Support 100% free sites with voluntary donations!"  Promote a culture in which John Q.  Everysimmer, upon finding Peggy's site, would go, "Wait, they want money for this?  That's ridiculous!"

... which, in addition to the WYSIWYCGWP (what you see is what you can get without paying) factor, is part of the speechifying site newses' message.

[Captain Feathersword]

This sounds awfully like an Inge policy.
It's a nice idea to promote only free items but isn't that how a lot of paysites "bait" us?

[Plum]

Heavily photoshopped screenshots that obscure the item in question, or are so altered (with censoring, filtering, etc.) that the alteration is distracting and detracts from the item in question would not be allowed.

Other than instances where the alteration covers the item itself, I don't think it's appropriate for MTS2 staff to make that call.  I would argue that Bruno's presentation heavily detracts from the item in question, but because it looks good, it goes on by.  As long as the item is presented unaltered, why should it matter whether you think the alterations to the picture are good or bad?

I'm not saying you don't have the right to make that call, I just think it's rude.

Anyway,  the whole new policy thing is a very nice idea, but the cynic (and/or realist) in me prevails.  Repeating the goal doesn't make the likely flaws go away.  As Captain Feathersword said, isn't posting free items how a lot of paysites bait us to begin with?

But I appreciate your hard work and positivity nonetheless.  :cake:

[Saraswati]

I actually agree with what MTS are doing.. but I relate why both approached are important back to my own history in left wing protest groups in the 80's and 90's.. And I apologise if I bore anyone.

One thing you learn from watching social change in action is that you need two types of radicals.. You need the type that get in people's faces, yell, and confront their assumptions. If you don't get these types of radicals, the change never start to happen because people never see a reason. I relate you guys back to being these types of radicals in the context

Then once these radicals have raised it as an issue, you get the other type moving in. You get people like Delphy and sites like MTS who move in and translate that information in a way that most people can cope with.. it's like a trade unionist putting on a suit.. Once the first type of radical has changed people's minds, usually the second type finds a way to translate that into laws   and change on a more structured level.

For myself, I think it's a question of "you get what you focus on".. It's not like it was six or twelve months ago where about the only people who were doing hair were the pay creators. For about every peice of paid content there's an equally good free item.. and if you can't find it, you make it. It's still important to make that stuff available for free so it undercuts the paysites (and annoys the hell of them  :lol: ).. but in the longterm what you also want is to cut off their avenues to have their stuff seen. You want to make the free stuff the dominant choice.

So I support what Delphy is doing.. But I can understand you not liking change Plum, it's human nature to find change uncomfortable..

And again, I apologise if I bored anyone..

[Minolia]

But I don't see how what you're saying addresses my concern--if you allow free content from paysites, paysites are still being advertised.  You may be directly promoting their free content, but the result is the same, and without the benefit of being able to tell people they can still get the stuff without paying for it.

While I support MTS2 policy change I hadn't thought of that point. It doesn't affect me much because normally in upload pics I use only free stuff and since it's generally only hair I use I often give list of credits. Because where did you get that hair comments drive me insane.

However I don't want to advertise even in the most round about way for pay items so if I use hair from Raon,Peggy etc. I guess I'll be leaving out the credit links and reply to any pm's I get asking about them with links to the free hair plus the booty link. Hmm wanders off to compose a standardised fill in the spaces reply for when I next upload.

What I would rather see, personally, is uploaders - and free site owners - putting somewhere prominently on their site or upload, "Hey, if you appreciate all this pretty free content and want to see the Sims 2 community free and full of hugs and puppies, don't pay for Sims 2 content! Support 100% free sites with voluntary donations!" Promote a culture in which John Q. Everysimmer, upon finding Peggy's site, would go, "Wait, they want money for this? That's ridiculous!"

Also a good idea. I'd better finish my next project so I can put it into practise. :lol:

[Shotgun Mary]

I personally don't really care one way or the other about this policy change. I quit creating for MTS2 a long time ago because I don't have the time to make sure I've complied with every little rule they have. It stopped being fun and I found myself spending more time on rules than creating. I understand the push for quality and I am apparently not the sort of creator they're after. That's ok. My stuff was crap anyhow. I do think its important not to showcase pay items but I do think the policy  should be extended to free items from paysites. If they don't want to advertise for paysites then don't. period. It will stifle the creativity of the artists to a certain extent but that wont matter much since MTS2 has become a repository for the genaric and mundane . They seem to have lost that creative spark from the early days. There's very little unique content coming out of that community any more. I don't think this policy will change that.

[Lethe]

I believe Angha Tyl sums it up quite nicely.
MTS is a big site, with a lot of staff, about half of which doesn't morally agree with what PMBD is doing. I believe Calalily said somewhere up there that you can be pro-free but  not necessarily pro-booty.
In a way, we can't afford to be radical. The idea of pirates and the booty scares a lot of ordinary simmers that have no time to contemplate all this, it also scares quite a few creators. There have to be ways to support free content, without being in your face about it. Otherwise, a lot of people would be scared off, and we don't want them running into the nice cosy world that is TSR, now do we?
If you see the radical reactions of some to allowing PMBD links in siggies (I've seen delphy called the head of the terrorist organisation, for christ's sake), you can guess that we need to take small steps, one at a time.
There needs to be more than two parties. Sure, some paysite fanatics will lump every pro-free site in with the pirates, but most will see different shades of grey. I hope i'm not offending anyone when i say that PMBD is a bit more radical in it's politics. But MTS is first and foremost a free downloadsite. It's sole purpose is not to destroy paysites.

We've discussed this change among staff for a very long time. And the thought of banning paysites has arisen. The problem is, where do you draw the line? Places like XM Sims and Around the Sims have tons of good content, but also a few donation sets. Would we dismiss ALL of them? Or arbitrarily block the ones that are deemed evil?
By focusing on the content, and not the sites, we're promoting free content. Anyone willing to be advertised will notice that recolours and pictures of free stuff goes on mts2, and will, hopefully, make more free stuff.

[calalily]

I believe Calalily said somewhere up there that you can be pro-free but  not necessarily pro-booty.

Oh, it's so nice to know I'm not yelling into the abyss.

I think that the policy is the right one.  If MTS2 had adopted a pro-booty stance, all the paysites would be able to say "oh they're only the best because they do it off our backs".  Now they have to keep their mouths shut - because they're not included.

[keirra]

...We've discussed this change among staff for a very long time. And the thought of banning paysites has arisen. The problem is, where do you draw the line? Places like XM Sims and Around the Sims have tons of good content, but also a few donation sets. Would we dismiss ALL of them? Or arbitrarily block the ones that are deemed evil?...

You make a really good point here.  I tend to think of things in as either black or white and forget about the gray areas.

[Plum]

But I can understand you not liking change Plum, it's human nature to find change uncomfortable..

Thank you for totally belittling everything I said.

Anyway, I'm open to seeing whether or not this new policy works out, but my concerns remain.

[Saraswati]

But I can understand you not liking change Plum, it's human nature to find change uncomfortable..

Thank you for totally belittling everything I said.

Anyway, I'm open to seeing whether or not this new policy works out, but my concerns remain.

Plum I'm sorry if you felt belittled in any way.. I'm glad you're open to seeing  how everything pans out.